The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Harry is right .
FNP Women and children are the most "Unsafe" group I know of .
We need to deal with it urgently .
Reducing resentment may take a decade .
A Voice 24 will take 2-3 years to get elected .
"All nations have to put resentments aside to move on .
They , as U said " have to "Deal with It " - okayyy @pop...
aboriginal australians are very special, even from a cold, anthropological standpoint, @pop, they are perhaps the most significant people on the planet.. the lack of resentment or anger, considering, is astounding. AW says it well, they are the most generous people.
AndyM wrote:Is this the most cynical and dishonest political campaign ever seen in Australia?
I Vote YES!
I have to come clean. I actually voted Yes. Something came over me in the booth and i couldnt write NO.
sounds good @burleigh, hope the fresh air was nice.
burleigh wrote:I have to come clean. I actually voted Yes. Something came over me in the booth and i couldnt write NO.
Sweet mate. Hope this is true. If so you’ve outed yourself as a troll. Best troll!!!
I totally agree 6 . Their communities , like most. , are very special . We are lucky to be able document the intimate working of their culture .
If it is not resentment to whites and colonisation , what is causing the rates of social problems much more than double of other Australians ?
All Australians have problems with drugs and alcohol .
That is what need to be fixed , urgently .
We can work out sacred lands , get a treaty , repair , as best we can , the damage and move on as ONE people . The Australian people are sick of Talk imho , we want this Dealt with . With respect and comprehensively .
Pop Down wrote:I totally agree 6 . Their communities , like most. , are very special . We are lucky to be able document the intimate working of their culture .
If it is not resentment to whites and colonisation , what is causing the rates of social problems much more than double of other Australians ?
All Australians have problems with drugs and alcohol .
That is what need to be fixed , urgently .
We can work out sacred lands , get a treaty , repair , as best we can , the damage and move on as ONE people . The Australian people are sick of Talk imho , we want this Dealt with . With respect and comprehensively .
'We' can't work it out. 'we' can't fix it. this is the point.
'We' have to hand over control, but no-one is even asking for that.
'We' have been asked to let them advise, without power, ongoingly, on a national level, about things that affect them. And to do this in the bright sunlight, so they can see 'we' get it.
It could be our Trump moment ( or Brexit ) .
Polls can be wrong .
The Burleigh Wave has started .
burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:goofyfoot wrote:southernraw wrote:Has Indo made a new profile??
Hutchy I think?
Haha that was my second guess
Better go check the forum rules Southerncooked. Put your complaint right to the top. It will make you feel superior.
Do you ever stop crying?
Now he wamts a medal for voting yrs, after repeated spouting uneducated dribble.
Still nothing of substamce. I wonder how many people u deterred from voting yes.
A troll is not a good troll. A troll is a troll. Unfortunately i dont know how to deal with trolls but id welcome ypu to come and antagonise me favevto face.
Keep trolling indos gurrrleigh.
Too many beers Paul. If he’s come on board it’s great for FNP. If he’s bullshitting well he’s the same Burliegh.
Ps maybe he wet the bed.
I’m going to give burleigh the benefit of the doubt and believe he had a change of conscience ( or heart ) for whatever reasons which is great and he should sleep well tonight. Sometimes we all need to give ourselves an uppercut . Here’s hoping more people had something come over them in the booth.
Im all for banter but the weird cunt keeps following me around but as soon as pressed for any kind of informed decision he slithers back into his drain like the snake he is.
Yeah get off the beers burleigh
6 months sober here and does a world of good.
Good on u Seeds. Been enjoying your posts throughout
@supa shame he mighta influenced his famiky ad friends to vote no. That one little vote doesn't really count in that light does it
Nice life choices SR. Apologies
southernraw wrote:Im all for banter but the weird cunt keeps following me around but as soon as pressed for any kind of informed decision he slithers back into his drain like the snake he is.
Yeah get off the beers burleigh
6 months sober here and does a world of good.
Good on u Seeds. Been enjoying your posts throughout
@supa shame he mighta influenced his famiky ad friends to vote no. That one little vote doesn't really count in that light does it
I don't follow you anywhere champ. I don't mind you calling me a weird cunt, but don't lie.
I have not drunk in over 10 years. Best decision i ever made, so good on ya.
All g Seeds
southernraw wrote:Im all for banter but the weird cunt keeps following me around but as soon as pressed for any kind of informed decision he slithers back into his drain like the snake he is.
Yeah get off the beers burleigh
6 months sober here and does a world of good.
Good on u Seeds. Been enjoying your posts throughout
@supa shame he mighta influenced his famiky ad friends to vote no. That one little vote doesn't really count in that light does it
Yeah I was wondering if his kids were old enough to vote and possibly swayed him , or maybe it was something someone said on here and the penny finally dropped . All the best SR .
Cheers supa.
Yep hopefully someone on here msde a difference. Would make this whoke seemingly worthless thread actually worthwhile.
Geez and it was looking really really close that Harry and Burleigh were going to separate and even divorce, All might be saved!
6 - Them are We .
We need to work together to keep Australia great .
Reform wrote:Geez and it was looking really really close that Harry and Burleigh were going to separate and even divorce, All might be saved!
I love you Harry.
burleigh wrote:Reform wrote:Geez and it was looking really really close that Harry and Burleigh were going to separate and even divorce, All might be saved!
I love you Harry.
So does this mean andy m has been given the flick ?
burleigh wrote:Reform wrote:Geez and it was looking really really close that Harry and Burleigh were going to separate and even divorce, All might be saved!
I love you Harry.
Haha... if it's true Burleigh- an I'm not convinced- then yr not as big a deadshit as u really are...
southernraw wrote:Has Indo made a new profile??
Ha ha...i was actually just thinking is Blowin back?
I like this guy and he has similar ancestry to me
I dont do double profiles, id get busted to easily, i cant even read my own post sometimes, i check them three times, come back an hour latter and noticed ive left out a word or something.
Im 100% sure if i was at school these days id be diagnosed on some spectrum.
Edit: Oh yeah Hutchy did have that ancestry too, so its Hutchy behaving :D
southernraw wrote:Cheers supa.
Yep hopefully someone on here msde a difference. Would make this whoke seemingly worthless thread actually worthwhile.
The truth is always worthwhile... ppl like #boycottindo may dodge and weave and prefer delusion and ignorance bu you can't deny the truth... u can't hold it down. "Seek the truth and it shall set u free"
harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Reform wrote:Geez and it was looking really really close that Harry and Burleigh were going to separate and even divorce, All might be saved!
I love you Harry.
Haha... if it's true Burleigh- an I'm not convinced- then yr not as big a deadshit as u really are...
You'll never know babe
burleigh wrote:I have to come clean. I actually voted Yes. Something came over me in the booth and i couldnt write NO.
Please tell me you are trolling otherwise im going to find you and jab you with a special AstraZeneca, Pfizer super duper double shot mix.
Haha
indo, you voted yes too didnt ya!
indo-dreaming wrote:burleigh wrote:I have to come clean. I actually voted Yes. Something came over me in the booth and i couldnt write NO.
Please tell me you are trolling otherwise im going to find you and jab you with a special AstraZeneca, Pfizer super duper double shot mix.
Hahaha.
indo-dreaming wrote:southernraw wrote:Has Indo made a new profile??
Ha ha...i was actually just thinking is Blowin back?
I like this guy and he has similar ancestry to me
I dont do double profiles, id get busted to easily, i cant even read my own post sometimes, i check them three times, come back an hour latter and noticed ive left out a word or something.
Im 100% sure if i was at school these days id be diagnosed on some spectrum.
Edit: Oh yeah Hutchy did have that ancestry too, so its Hutchy behaving :D
You and every person who has ever had the misfortune to endure your me thinks so therefore I’m right posts over the years
southernraw wrote:Haha
indo, you voted yes too didnt ya!
I voted No with an X in the box like your suppose too :D
burleigh wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:burleigh wrote:I have to come clean. I actually voted Yes. Something came over me in the booth and i couldnt write NO.
Please tell me you are trolling otherwise im going to find you and jab you with a special AstraZeneca, Pfizer super duper double shot mix.
Hahaha.
Hahaha.
I went and voted late this arvo and all that was left were 2 Yes pamphlet guys but no sign of the nose. Old mate does his job and offers me a How to vote card, "Naaa mate thanks I'm ok, I can spell 3 letters."
Supafreak wrote:burleigh wrote:Reform wrote:Geez and it was looking really really close that Harry and Burleigh were going to separate and even divorce, All might be saved!
I love you Harry.
So does this mean andy m has been given the flick ?
Say it ain't so!
80,000 yes volunteers today, apparently a record, I’m feeling a shift in the force .
ABC is supposed to ensure ‘balance of the facts’ — instead they served up balance of every nutty opinion.
“[ABC journalists use of] the internal ABC Voice Tracker… affects the way we structure and report stories because they say if you can't get somebody who's a No, you can't put on somebody who's a Yes," Laura Tingle said.
"This is nuts ... it's completely sick."
Tingle calls out false balance at ABC over Voice coverage smh.com.au/politics/feder…. https://x.com/petercronau/status/1712959514297999582?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe7...
Supafreak wrote:ABC is supposed to ensure ‘balance of the facts’ — instead they served up balance of every nutty opinion.
“[ABC journalists use of] the internal ABC Voice Tracker… affects the way we structure and report stories because they say if you can't get somebody who's a No, you can't put on somebody who's a Yes," Laura Tingle said.
"This is nuts ... it's completely sick."Tingle calls out false balance at ABC over Voice coverage smh.com.au/politics/feder…. https://x.com/petercronau/status/1712959514297999582?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe7...
Ha ha you have to be kidding me, even when they try to provide balance its tilted very heavily to the other side.
Basically what she wants is only views she agrees with heard but not the other side.
A well informed no voter or no hoper ? https://x.com/xskinn/status/1713006100696756437?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe7hKRZb...
If it doesn't get up u have to remember that the Republic ref failed also... more Australians wanted to remain tied to the apronstrings of Mummy Empire rather than forge ahead as a matured independent nation. The LNP always politicises refs cos of their pathetic conservative fear and paranoia... monarchists in this day and age and they call themselves Australians!! Unbelievable...
Supafreak wrote:A well informed no voter or no hoper ? https://x.com/xskinn/status/1713006100696756437?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe7hKRZb...
Another bogan deplorable... give him some more meth
AndyM wrote:Supafreak wrote:burleigh wrote:Reform wrote:Geez and it was looking really really close that Harry and Burleigh were going to separate and even divorce, All might be saved!
I love you Harry.
So does this mean andy m has been given the flick ?
Say it ain't so!
Andy, you will always have a place in my heart.
Funny seeing and hearing the No voters being interviewed... Derp
Ah well...
Blackfellas: "Hey whitey how about you give us a Voice as part of your Reconciliation process"
Whitey: "How about we kick you in the head while yr down"
...until next time.
harrycoopr wrote:Funny seeing and hearing the No voters being interviewed... Derp
Yeah those interviews said it all.
Sorry guys almost over already.
A victory for the dumbtards, the rednecks and bogans, the racists, the great unwashed, and the plain mean-spirited...oh and the Hansonites.
Australia... The Lucky Country
Great campaign Haz. You surely changed heaps of minds…. the opposite way you were hoping. Peace.
https://m.
&pp=ygUSdHJlYXR5IHlvdGh1IHlpbmRp yay! @indo
we've won.. what? an abstract idea something along the lines of
AlbosuxToomuchNotenuffWhythemTheydontwannit$$DetailsConstitution.. ?
yay!
(maybe pop over to burleigh's and have a little shindig)
[fwiw I agree with Zen below, you have grown a lot, through this one,
shame it was on the back of Australia's most vulnerable and deserving]
Indo, do us one favour though please. Don't gloat.
Humble in victory. Gracious in defeat.
Remember, there will be a lot of disappointed people out there tonight.
Btw, despite what others think, I think you played a pretty straight bat.
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28