The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

bluediamond started the topic in

Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

truebluebasher Friday, 13 Oct 2023 at 9:01pm

Southernraw...continues with crew's heartfelt genuine support.
Best of health to yourself & family...it still continues it does.

Can't touch a [YES] [NO] Vote without a Combo drug cocktail of unkown effect.
Need up to date 4/5 Covid shots + latest Quaddie Jab just to apply for AEC Vote Rigging job.

Back to that Photo shot on [last page] > weird dic pic graphics on Vote Cards.
https://i.ibb.co/bRWV5nf/thumbnail-IMG-1881.jpg

AEC Chix : " We've had enough of Dirty Politics!"
New ballot papers...
"The new Shields / Condoms + Anti Dic pic symbols will minimise the transmission of STDs."

$450m
$25 tbb's Reffo Showbag
Free from ROBO Enrollment Threat
Never got no [YES] [NO] Booklet
1 How 2 Vote [NO] Card.
1 Threat from Services Australia to a Disability Pensioner
Reads : Dear Mr tbb if you or yer partner fail to report yer Supa / Life insurance scam...
Signed your's sincerely Centrelink Palmy Army.

tbb: "Don't have Partner or Life insurance or annuity + Got 3x more Home loan funds than Supa!
Now ask! If all pensioners just got one of these this week in the mail...exactly!

Will people please consider the Reffo may be designed to fail...to warrant the Treaty.
Can drop a hint...[NO] Camps were outed early & some joined forces

Come Monday...Media will likely still overlook the simple obvious fact that [YES] vs [NO] are Divided.
Crew might wonder Why [YES] Camps hate each others guts...
Also why Booklets have no authors + Signs have tiny of blurred Authorization.

tbb set up a simple exercise ...Try to link our loving [YES] brothers in Arms...( have a crack....)

(YES 23) Top End resource Miners / Corps / Banks
https://www.yes23.com.au/

(YES) Universal / Govt Orgs
https://www.unicef.org.au/stories/unicef-australia-supports-indigenous-v...

[ Your the Voice ] Ground Up Redfern Treaty with Syd/Mbne High Court Jews
https://ulurustatement.org/

Together [YES] Aboriginal Chix Rights / Kitchen Table
https://togetheryes.com.au/

I'm Voting Yes (Teals) Independents Ground Up Treaty
https://www.moniqueryan.com.au/request_a_sign_vtp

Summary...now add 3 or more opposing No camps that despise each other

There is no Voice (Not a single word) is shared amongst [YES] or [NO] Groups
Each & every group hate each other's guts no matter the [#] [No] [*] [@] [Yes] [!] [?]
None will share a badge or sticker...
Neutral tbb is first to notice just how fast the Voice defaulted to replicate Fed Election independents
tbb is trying to see a decisive [No] vs [YES] ...miles away... Media are painting a lie!
Reffo = [YES] or [No] bears no resemblance to the 10' or more 100% independent Voice campaigns

World now knows of our Downunder Wacky Race...for the Holy Grail...
A whole untapped Govt backed economy of misery...that is Gold Dust in this walled up world.
Lock it in...here comes Coca Cola!

Come Monday...This most disliked Ex Pollie in Oz is calling the shots...
Voldemort hold's his Champs mitts to the heavens...we slaughtered the pitiful weaklings.
Reminder...
2019 Scomo Parachuted Mundine into a safe seat & he tanked 16% vote to Lose safe [L] Seat
Same most hated loser is now a Poster Boy on Dutto's bed wall...Top of the Heap.
Come Friday Night...(dunno) He's now King of the Blacks.
Gotta Book an appointment with the Heavy Weight [L] Bully from Monday on...
Only the Voters already dumped this Moron & he's not even elected & likely never will be...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_results_for_the_Division_of_Gilmore
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/nyunggai-warren-mundine-emerges-...

andy-mac Friday, 13 Oct 2023 at 8:41pm

southernraw wrote:
Much appreciated JF and Reform. Thankyou.
It's definitely been a battle but he's getting plenty of love and yes, one day at a time.

All the best mate!. Sounds heavy....

Reform Friday, 13 Oct 2023 at 10:20pm

It’s a legitimate request!
It’s not about us. It’s about them, Vote for them, Yes, they will appreciate your voting YES!

I focus Friday, 13 Oct 2023 at 11:14pm

Thanks Westofthelake heartfelt piece that one.

Re Jacinda Price, listen to what Jacinda says it's exactly what white Australia wants to hear, great politics and solid behavior for success in the conservative world quite extraordinary really.

Will Price pivot if put into a position of power?

I doubt it, power is intoxicating watching Price worship the Murdoch empire she knows how to play the game.

Useful idiots will actually believe her, note there is nothing new Price has said same script as has long been used.

seeds Friday, 13 Oct 2023 at 11:25pm

Price is the useful idiot. And that saddens me. She will be discarded.

truebluebasher Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:46am

1967 Reffo retrospective the first & likely only exclusively [Neutral] Version.
Warning ...may contain #1 swellnet exclusive mind blowing investigation.
https://www.gilimbaa.com.au/our-work/australia-post/
Chapters...
Constitutional Lies > Aboriginal Facts...
Poor polls > #1 Oz PM bails > Replacement PM dies > Results in loss of proposed Aborigines Rights
Libs biggest Seats Win / ALP biggest seats loss > Wall 2 wall [L] > Rise/Fall of new age Independents
1st Gay [L] Fed Party Leader

Aborigines were already clearly citizens with full rights prior to 1967.
ABS always counted them, most extensively & remotely in 1966 for upcoming reffo.
Voting before 1902 > ADF Aborigines after 1949 > All Aborigines from 1962 > voted in Reffo.
States needed only to apply for Fed funding to include Aborigines in State Elections > None bothered!
Child support from 1941 > Pensions from 1942 > Maternity Pay from 1959

Studies tbb read agree that 1967 was not the main game & was merely appeasing sensitive readers!
see credits...(Below)

1959 Nexus Constitutional Review was the main game...
Senate log jam with new uprising of DLP were 1 vote from blocking Supply [L] 30 [alp] 27 [DLP] 2
Review proposed Reffo for Increase in Pollies in both Houses.
May '65 One huge problem (Gallop Polls ...GOD) Nexus Yes 33% No 35% ? 32% (Was gonna fail)

Snedden + later Billy W picked up on Aboriginal Student Action + Fed Council Motions to lift yer game!
A reason to Vote Yes was a gift from Above...A marriage made in heaven...
Govt could now empower themselves to exploit Aboriginal Population to rig Seats...Shh!

Dec 1965 Nexus Poll (GOD) Yes 23% No 47% ? 30%
Oops! AEC were already printing batches of Dual reffo Booklets
Jan 1966 Menzies worst nightmare [L] Ship was sinking & Life rafts were cast adrift...
In order to survive [L] had to suck on Aboriginal Blood...

Australia Day he abandoned Ship, so long thanks for all the fish so sad that things should come to this!
Only now the polls are shared...WTF.
27th Jan Doug Anthony informs incoming PM Holt that printing was runnin' on the booklets...Fark!
15th Feb After many Emergency Legals [L] pulled the Reffo.
Menzies...Wot me! How bloody dare you! Death Stare...yer all dead to me!

DLP declared victory against Menzie's cowardly corrupt AEC back peddle $177,635 ($2.7m today)

The whole of 1966 was spent spinnin...numbers to appease 100% both houses ALP support.
As far as changing from [X] > [YES] [YES] Jingles / Toons > Anything crafty to piss off the Dems!
Feb 1967 Holt reminded ALP of long agreed reform...still took forever...
Aboriginal Reffo kept out of the news & was rubber stamped as mutton dressed up as lamb.[YES] [YES]
tbb ran a recent piece on this switch to Yes cute Aboriginal [YES] Tunes & Toons to butter up the Sheeple.

Note : All parties saw the [YES] [NO] Vote Bias & never returned to universal equally able fair [X]
Oz can now Pit Election Battles...to now mostly defend any Constitutional change in all following animated Reffos

Consensus was...it was sprung upon them...

27 May 1967 People Voted 90% for Aboriginal Reffo but only 40% for More Pollies (Nexus)
Crew can see that the switch to [YES] [YES] delivered a better result than polls.

Pause:

Story splits here...( tbb will return to Nexus 1968 outcome )
Holt was beholden to a promised Council of Aboriginal Affairs...(But [L] weren't in a hurry!)
Same as previous year...[L] nor [alp] never gave a shit about the Aborigine Reffo pantomime
Sept : Holt had still never engaged States to do shit...(Writers hint to [L] were blocking him.)

2 Nov 1967 Holt hand picked #1 Star Chamber trio & offered Bat Phone to PM
All were reluctant ....so this was no [L] Quango...the PM's real deal!
# 1 Frontline Public Servant
#1 Reserve Bank Gov'
#1 ANU professor on Aboriginals
https://indigenousx.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Ab_Affairs.jpg

Country Party were incensed that PM was now courting priority Aboriginal Policy in private!
Reffo was just a joke...Plans were afoot to override Holt's Goodwill Charity Star Chamber.
Didn't take long...soon as Nov > Dec Xmas Break > Holt Vanished...(Bummer!)

No bother...just roll out an [L] robot...
10 Jan 1968 PM Gorton...
12 Feb Star chamber writes to PM Gorton...(No reply!) until ...
28th Feb Gorton installs a Cock block > No PM Access ...do wot my CP nut case says!
From here the Aboriginal Reffo spirit faded from view...
The trio did push on thru to change of Govt where they were again valued.
see credits more & more...gotta push on...gettin' too long.

Now back to the agreed Reffo committed Electoral Reform...
(Important!) Scholars never sussed this but tbb smelt a rat...
Stories naturally focus only on Senate Reform...with headline DLP Power Play Crisis.
eg: 1964 DLP 8.4% = 3 Senators > 1968 9.8% = 5 senators
Now a deadlock until 1974 Double Dissolution Election outed all 5 DLP for blocking supply!

Lesson : Aboriginal / Nexus Reffo made things worse for all..& Stalled Oz reform for 7 years!
[L] + [alp] Govts took no pleasure in saying ...told ya so!

Here's the Kicker that no one saw comin'...dare say [ALP know know with advent of Computers]
Still none are game to gloat either way of the shocking exploitation of Aborigines for Gerrymandering.
ALP can say nothing as they signed off on this shit that buried them alive it did...near on ended them!
tbb examined in detail the major reform of Lower House Electorate numbers...(This will shock!)
1968 Table of ALP seats Held > [abolished]
1901 : 67 yrs Dalley / East Syd / West Syd / Yarra
1901 : 62 yrs Parkes
1967 : 61 yrs Faukner
1934 : 34 yrs Watson > Darebin 18 yrs > Scullin 13 yrs

9 seats > 456 yrs of Representation wiped in one Reform that they wholeheartedly agreed too.
[L] 3 seats of 19 yrs = 57yrs

4 New seats Offset were mostly kind to ALP = 3 seats (101 yrs) vs [L] 1 seat = 14 yrs
Crew can now clearly see for the first time presented [L] [YES] [YES] Aboriginal Constitutional Rort
Snedden + Billy's Plot was to prevent then current [DLP] Senate + [ALP] Reps uprising
There was no regard to the future outcome just exploiting Aboriginal / Voting convention for a feast!

#1 swellnet exclusive reveals DLP picked up 2 senate seats in 1968 but lost all 5 in 1974
ALP lost 9 seats but picked up 3 ( total loss 355 yrs Foundation representation)
[L] lost 3 seats but picked up 1 (total loss 33 years all recent inconsequential representation )
Crew know that = Biggest arse kick from [L] to [alp] all 100% approved & well hidden from history.
1970 Fed + All states were Conservative with ALP feeling like fools that shot themselves in the foot!
Revealed here today by non participant 100% neutral crewmate! You're welcome! Shh!

Pause:

We're not done Yet ...the biggest victory of all from the 1967 Reffo was a shock to all & still now!
Rainbow Rises in Diamond Valley!
The one & only Reffo Reform seat [L] picked up was no accident...
Diamond Valley as name suggests was groomed for [L] Youngest New Messiah!

Ok! So how did that plan go tbb...& wotz with the Rainbow! It's a happy ending...promise!

[L] 29yr/old Candidate Neil Brown looked the part & could play James Bond

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Diamond_Valley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Brown_(Australian_politician)

1981 Served as Oz Minister for Youth Affairs under PM Fraser.
1985-1987 Became deputy [L] Leader to Howard.
Dec 1985 was elevated to Leader of Liberal Party as Howard was hospitalized.
1989 Neil's wife was [L] State Candidate
1996 Rainbow Rising as promised > Neil the once [L] Leader comes out...as in [YES]
Says his wife knew before they married...said to be one of the 1st pollies to come out .

Youth affairs under Fraser + Howard hand picked his handsome 'Left hand' man!
Makes ya wonder it does...reckon Neil had a Gay Old Time serving under Mal & Johnnie!

Ok! Think this wayward filthy reffo caper has gone on long enough tbb...[censored]

Next Up...the even more impossibly corrupt 1999 Reffo...can we do that one?

tbb salutes credits...fantastic reading + big thanx to Wikipedia for dedicated Oz Electoral research.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedu...

https://indigenousx.com.au/gary-foley-harold-holts-death-and-why-the-196...

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ajph.12889

https://ncie.org.au/1967-referendum/
https://reflection.servicesaustralia.gov.au/1960s/1968/prime-minister-ad...

goofyfoot Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 6:40am

Had a pretty funny conversation with my in-laws last night. They are mid 70’s, pretty well off, couple of houses and property in central Victoria.
Mother in laws main concern about the Yes vote getting up “they will be able to take the farm off us!”
Lovely people but need to stop believing everything they read on Facebook

AndyM Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 6:53am

Is this the most cynical and dishonest political campaign ever seen in Australia?

belly Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 7:03am

My parents similar age goofy.
'already too much funding given to indigenous'.
This vote is 20 years too early IMO, we're not culturally there, too much ingrained racism.

Reform Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 7:15am

indo-dreaming Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 7:29am

I focus wrote:
Thanks Westofthelake heartfelt piece that one.

Re Jacinda Price, listen to what Jacinda says it's exactly what white Australia wants to hear, great politics and solid behavior for success in the conservative world quite extraordinary really.

Will Price pivot if put into a position of power?

I doubt it, power is intoxicating watching Price worship the Murdoch empire she knows how to play the game.

Useful idiots will actually believe her, note there is nothing new Price has said same script as has long been used.

What garbage she is about real truth telling and says the things that need to be said while many have their heads in the sand and avoid the hard question's and uncomfortable truths, she ask Aboriginal people to stop seeing themselves as victims and make change themselves instead of making excuse's in blaming others and expecting others including governments to make change for them.

If she last in politics or not who knows many get chewed up and spat out especially if their drive comes from a good place and cant handle or play the game, Peter Garrett being a good example (even if i dont agree with him nobody could question his motives) but then you get unlikely fighters and hanger ons like Pauline who many expected would not last but is still there fighting for what she believes 25 years latter.

Anyway hate on Jacinta or me all you like, but today Australia's decides the future, if this fails many will be sad or angry and many will be relieved and see it as a positive, and that also goes for Aboriginal people where recent proper conducted polling showed only 59% of aboriginal people supported the voice not 80%, so which every way you vote you are standing alongside Aboriginal people.

BTW. The label white Australia these days is a furthy we are one of the rare countries in the world made up of pretty much every ethnic group possible with every single shade of skin colour possible, even the Chinese population is far bigger than the Indigenous population and we all generally get along pretty well compared to most countries, you only have to look to countries like Israel and Ukraine to appreciate how good we have it and how well we get on despite all our differences.

GuySmiley Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 7:54am

‘ What garbage she is about real truth telling ..’

https://m.

Supafreak Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 7:56am

Truth telling ? Like colonisation had a positive effect on FNP s ? Tell me again who JP represents .

frog Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 8:13am

AndyM wrote:
Is this the most cynical and dishonest political campaign ever seen in Australia?

I would say a massive, sustained overpromise to FNP and the Australian people on the "magical" powers of a big committee to deal with very complex challenges has often been cynical and dishonest.

I have observed close up regional economic and social development initiatives based around community consultation to generate ideas. It was disappointing in practice and outcome. Hopes raised, hopes dashed. Community rifts widened. Way harder than the advocates expected.

The expected united community was actually quite fragmented in so many ways. The ideas were many. Practicality and implementation was the challenge. Big talkers dominated. The most motivated leaders always seemed to have an economic interest (boost their tourism business, tap into grant programs, boost real estate prices etc.).

I could go on.

The Yes campaign created a huge need to overpromise to try motivate the undecided given the change proposed was not built on a basis of bi partisan consensus. That was a choice. An Albo short cut.

Overpromising, to the disadvantaged is cruel and dishearterning. It is a form of dishonesty.

Saying "there is no alternative" is hugely defeatest and dishonest. There are always other ways.

burleigh Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 8:45am

frog wrote:
AndyM wrote:
Is this the most cynical and dishonest political campaign ever seen in Australia?

I would say a massive, sustained overpromise to FNP and the Australian people on the "magical" powers of a big committee to deal with very complex challenges has often been cynical and dishonest.

I have observed close up regional economic and social development initiatives based around community consultation to generate ideas. It was disappointing in practice and outcome. Hopes raised, hopes dashed. Community rifts widened. Way harder than the advocates expected.

The expected united community was actually quite fragmented in so many ways. The ideas were many. Practicality and implementation was the challenge. Big talkers dominated. The most motivated leaders always seemed to have an economic interest (boost their tourism business, tap into grant programs, boost real estate prices etc.).

I could go on.

The Yes campaign created a huge need to overpromise to try motivate the undecided given the change proposed was not built on a basis of bi partisan consensus. That was a choice. An Albo short cut.

Overpromising, to the disadvantaged is cruel and dishearterning. It is a form of dishonesty.

Saying "there is no alternative" is hugely defeatest and dishonest. There are always other ways.

"There is no alternative" has been echoed through here by the peanuts constantly. It makes me laugh to see how gullible people are.

They used the same game play as Covid. It hasn't worked well for them.

burleigh Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 8:47am

Betting odds on the big day. Looks like its going to be a big loss for the name calling jerks in here

https://www.bluebet.com.au/sports/Politics/142/Australian-Referendums/Th...

Supafreak Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 9:31am

Are you feeling like a winner burleigh ? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0cZfn12zg7SS7Qgx7ryty3M...

southernraw Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 9:28am

Sending love to our indigenous brothers and sisters today. Theres going to be alot of nerves, fear, anxiety, shame, hope, discontent and a million emotions we could never understand from our privileged vieepoint.
Its a good day to say yes.

basesix Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 9:41am

sure is @southern. One day were all gonna be grissled great-granpas, talking about this.
We're gonna grin and tell the rugrats what a weird time it was when we had hope and voted yes.
Imagine those who frown and reminisce about gov'ts/constitution/long-dead celebs/covid/etc. as to why they voted no.. kids'll be stoked they asked..

goofyfoot Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 10:06am

Basesix “ kids'll be stoked they asked..”

Ha ha, not wrong.

harrycoopr Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 10:23am

burleigh wrote:
Betting odds on the big day. Looks like its going to be a big loss for the name calling jerks in here

https://www.bluebet.com.au/sports/Politics/142/Australian-Referendums/Th...

Like fishfood doesn't name-call... such a moron. And even more of an a-hole for placing a bet

andy-mac Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 10:23am

Just got back from voting Yes.
Only No campaigners at polling booth. All polite and whole process went smoothly.
Feeling very grateful that in Australia no matter what your views we can safely and securely vote. I hope it can stay that way.
Hope the polls are wrong.

harrycoopr Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 10:35am

southernraw wrote:
Sending love to our indigenous brothers and sisters today. Theres going to be alot of nerves, fear, anxiety, shame, hope, discontent and a million emotions we could never understand from our privileged vieepoint.
Its a good day to say yes.

How ppl can go to the poll booths with a No in their heart is really sad... the right's lies and outright bullshit has been really disgusting, esp from Price and Mundine the rightwhiteys powercouple who would say anything to gain favour and bucks, and u think most ppl would see thru all this but alas, as a couple of posters have noted about the oldies, their afraid of Hansonite bullshit... As for the Spud, he'll go down in history as the Constitution Cur...
A day to reflect upon the One Nation with no divisiveness and a beautiful history of togetherness. .. and to look forward to much more Aboriginal political activism, now more empowered than ever, as they refuse to lie down... as many would like.

mikehunt207 Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 10:42am

burleigh wrote:
Betting odds on the big day. Looks like its going to be a big loss for the name calling jerks in here

https://www.bluebet.com.au/sports/Politics/142/Australian-Referendums/Th...

Once a selfish arsehole , always a selfish arsehole it would seem,
Burls gets his little stiffy over "winning", what a legend....
Stupidity knows no bounds

Supafreak Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 11:07am

https://x.com/tracywesterman/status/1712956692236021943?s=46&t=5RczxwAfz... After a long campaign I feel for our country today. I have regularly asked myself what are “no voters” celebrating. What in their minds is being achieved for our most disadvantaged & vulnerable Australians.
I have not been able to get an answer to that from any no voter which doesn’t find it’s place in fear, hate, anger.
And that just makes me sad.
#VoteYes2023

Reform Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 11:13am

Nice one Southernraw,
Supafreak,
I focus,
Basesix, (Advice taken)
The Andy's A and Mac,
Harry (The man)
Guy Smiley,
hiccups,
tbb "Take a look around...can ya see it now...sky / land / sea / you / me are free with intergalactic harmony!Everlasting First Nation's Legacy...the gift that keeps on giving! Not that anyone would care to notice!" tbb Tuesday 10 Oct, 3,18 am,
seeds,
goofyfoot(me too),
Fliplid,
soggydog,
A Salty dog,
Lost doggy,
Zen,
Section rabit68 - Cheers
Jelly Flatter, (Editing mystro, on point and in the moment and a man with great advice and kind reflection)
flollo,
AW cheers,
san Guine (good heart),
Adam 12 (Thanks so much for your encouragement and great words to make sense of this referendum),
Westofthelake - Nice article I read through excellent, thank you!
VJ (??)
Sypkan cheers - good points but hmm.
Grisco kid - You seem like a nice guy - although sorry I didn't agree.
Apologies to those I missed.

Um..Cough cough, hmm, what were those names, about 5 maybe 6, The Indo's and Burleigh's that have dedicated their precious time to contributing for god knows how long, much longer than I. They have all played a part to help dig up and expose the truths and the conspiracies', As in life there has to be a balance and if the ballast is too weighted things tip over.
Off now to slot myself and be corralled in the que with all of those other Yes voters- Cheers All - Best wishes to all indigenous throughout the land - I and many others are in solidarity with you!

AndyM Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 11:11am

frog wrote:
AndyM wrote:
Is this the most cynical and dishonest political campaign ever seen in Australia?

I would say a massive, sustained overpromise to FNP and the Australian people on the "magical" powers of a big committee to deal with very complex challenges has often been cynical and dishonest.

I have observed close up regional economic and social development initiatives based around community consultation to generate ideas. It was disappointing in practice and outcome. Hopes raised, hopes dashed. Community rifts widened. Way harder than the advocates expected.

The expected united community was actually quite fragmented in so many ways. The ideas were many. Practicality and implementation was the challenge. Big talkers dominated. The most motivated leaders always seemed to have an economic interest (boost their tourism business, tap into grant programs, boost real estate prices etc.).

I could go on.

The Yes campaign created a huge need to overpromise to try motivate the undecided given the change proposed was not built on a basis of bi partisan consensus. That was a choice. An Albo short cut.

Overpromising, to the disadvantaged is cruel and dishearterning. It is a form of dishonesty.

Saying "there is no alternative" is hugely defeatest and dishonest. There are always other ways.

I’m not sure I agree with the premise of your comment.
Not withstanding that I don’t watch TV, this supposed “overpromise to FNP” seems like a distraction.
Grass-roots, highly representative indigenous people got together and thrashed out a plan.
It’s this that we are voting on, not some red herring “promise” that you talk about.

Supafreak Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 11:19am

AndyM wrote:
frog wrote:
AndyM wrote:
Is this the most cynical and dishonest political campaign ever seen in Australia?

I would say a massive, sustained overpromise to FNP and the Australian people on the "magical" powers of a big committee to deal with very complex challenges has often been cynical and dishonest.

I have observed close up regional economic and social development initiatives based around community consultation to generate ideas. It was disappointing in practice and outcome. Hopes raised, hopes dashed. Community rifts widened. Way harder than the advocates expected.

The expected united community was actually quite fragmented in so many ways. The ideas were many. Practicality and implementation was the challenge. Big talkers dominated. The most motivated leaders always seemed to have an economic interest (boost their tourism business, tap into grant programs, boost real estate prices etc.).

I could go on.

The Yes campaign created a huge need to overpromise to try motivate the undecided given the change proposed was not built on a basis of bi partisan consensus. That was a choice. An Albo short cut.

Overpromising, to the disadvantaged is cruel and dishearterning. It is a form of dishonesty.

Saying "there is no alternative" is hugely defeatest and dishonest. There are always other ways.

I’m not sure I agree with the premise of your comment.
Not withstanding that I don’t watch TV, this supposed “overpromise to FNP” seems like a distraction.
Grass-roots, highly representative indigenous people got together and thrashed out a plan.
It’s this that we are voting on, not some red herring “promise” that you talk about.

Some believe it’s “ Albo’s “ and labor’s plan not understanding where and why this all started. For people to vote no to take a swipe at “Albo’s voice “ is really miserable thinking .

frog Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:08pm

Ok, ownership of the core weakness of an over promise and disengenious 'no alternative" "last hope" messaging is quite broad - the campaign leadership, the ABC, numerous experts, commentators, advertising gurus, discussion hosts, politicians etc.

They all sung from a single song sheet that did not quite ring true, trying to shepherd the flock in one direction trying to close off escape paths for voters.

"No alternative" is clear cut misinformation. 100% inaccurate.

There are always other ways to listen and advise.

Many could be very effective.

san Guine Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:09pm

frog wrote:
Ok, ownership of the core weakness of an over promise and disengenious 'no alternative" "last hope" messaging is quite broad - the campaign leadership, the ABC, numerous experts, commentators, advertising gurus, discussion hosts, politicians etc.

They all sung from a single song sheet that did not quite ring true, trying to shepherd the flock in one direction trying to close off escape paths for voters.

"No alternative" is clear cut misinformation. 100% inaccurate.

There are always other ways to listen and advise.

Many could be very effective.

So did you vote no?

Pop Down Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:13pm

Australia will be , nearly , the same tomorrow .
Unless something has changed since 1967, Australia is still one of the least racist countries I know ( Netherlands , France ) .
Melbourne , the least racist city I have lived in .
In 1967 , 90.7% 0f Australians ( all states ) wanted the government to "Officially " be able to look after FNP ( The vote was already given by states ).
The most successful YES vote in our history .
All humans and cultures are racist - Us V The Barbarians ( look at all kids ( watch out for anyone different ) ).
Polls showed that Australians wanted the ISSUE sorted , were willing to agree on repairing the damage and FINALLY get on with things . NO more resentments . Maybe set up a FNP Future Fund ?
Then , no more box ticking pretenders !
Everyone equal .
The result of a government asking for Australians a decision based on plenty of time for debate will be known tomorrow .
Australia won't change tomorrow .
Still the best place , in the world , for any human to live imho.

harrycoopr Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:22pm

Pop Down wrote:
Australia will be , nearly , the same tomorrow .
Unless something has changed since 1967, Australia is still one of the least racist countries I know ( Netherlands , France ) .
Melbourne , the least racist city I have lived in .
In 1967 , 90.7% 0f Australians ( all states ) wanted the government to "Officially " be able to look after FNP ( The vote was already given by states ).
The most successful YES vote in our history .
All humans and cultures are racist - Us V The Barbarians ( look at all kids ( watch out for anyone different ) ).
Polls showed that Australians wanted the ISSUE sorted , were willing to agree on repairing the damage and FINALLY get on with things . NO more resentments . Maybe set up a FNP Future Fund ?
Then , no more box ticking pretenders !
Everyone equal .
The result of a government asking for Australians a decision based on plenty of time for debate will be known tomorrow .
Australia won't change tomorrow .
Still the best place , in the world , for any human to live imho.

.. unless yr a blackfella

southernraw Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:24pm

Reform wrote:
Nice one Southernraw,
Supafreak,
I focus,
Basesix, (Advice taken)
The Andy's A and Mac,
Harry (The man)
Guy Smiley,
hiccups,
tbb "Take a look around...can ya see it now...sky / land / sea / you / me are free with intergalactic harmony!Everlasting First Nation's Legacy...the gift that keeps on giving! Not that anyone would care to notice!" tbb Tuesday 10 Oct, 3,18 am,
seeds,
goofyfoot(me too),
Fliplid,
soggydog,
A Salty dog,
Lost doggy,
Zen,
Section rabit68 - Cheers
Jelly Flatter, (Editing mystro, on point and in the moment and a man with great advice and kind reflection)
flollo,
AW cheers,
san Guine (good heart),
Adam 12 (Thanks so much for your encouragement and great words to make sense of this referendum),
Westofthelake - Nice article I read through excellent, thank you!
VJ (??)
Sypkan cheers - good points but hmm.
Grisco kid - You seem like a nice guy - although sorry I didn't agree.
Apologies to those I missed.

Um..Cough cough, hmm, what were those names, about 5 maybe 6, The Indo's and Burleigh's that have dedicated their precious time to contributing for god knows how long, much longer than I. They have all played a part to help dig up and expose the truths and the conspiracies', As in life there has to be a balance and if the ballast is too weighted things tip over.
Off now to slot myself and be corralled in the que with all of those other Yes voters- Cheers All - Best wishes to all indigenous throughout the land - I and many others are in solidarity with you!

Good on ypu @reform. A voice of light and compassion.
Special mentions to @facto and @bud1 also.
Huge positive contributors to always saying yes to our original Australians and never backing down from the uneducated posters that continue to this day to shut down reasonable discussion.
Btw @frog, never really agreed with many of your posts but its clear you put time and thought into them, to which i highly appreciate and commend. A few others as well. Thanks.

harrycoopr Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:33pm

Went to the booth.. 2 decrepit old blokes handing out No (thought of fishfood & #boycottindo)... went up to them with a smile and asked what they thought about Price's "colonisation" gaff... they said it's just an opinion but the look of humiliation on their faces said it all. I just rounded it off by saying that anyone voting no after hearing that - what do you call it anyway? Lie? Travesty? A trumpian? - should hang their head in shame.. and both their heads had dropped pretty low by this time. Sad.

indo-dreaming Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 12:48pm

Pop Down wrote:
Australia will be , nearly , the same tomorrow .
Unless something has changed since 1967, Australia is still one of the least racist countries I know ( Netherlands , France ) .
Melbourne , the least racist city I have lived in .
In 1967 , 90.7% 0f Australians ( all states ) wanted the government to "Officially " be able to look after FNP ( The vote was already given by states ).
The most successful YES vote in our history .
All humans and cultures are racist - Us V The Barbarians ( look at all kids ( watch out for anyone different ) ).
Polls showed that Australians wanted the ISSUE sorted , were willing to agree on repairing the damage and FINALLY get on with things . NO more resentments . Maybe set up a FNP Future Fund ?
Then , no more box ticking pretenders !
Everyone equal .
The result of a government asking for Australians a decision based on plenty of time for debate will be known tomorrow .
Australia won't change tomorrow .
Still the best place , in the world , for any human to live imho.

100% true, and true for anyone no matter race or skin colour that why we also have Aboriginal people achieving at the highest levels be it in olympic sports or sport like football, music, arts, media, politics etc

Pop Down Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:00pm

....unless you are a black fella
I disagree , Harry .
Our FNP were the most recent to experience the "Clash of Economic " systems and get disrupted .
It was always going to happen .
Gosh , the Poms were actually the best option ( of are very bad bunch , we could all be Catholics ) . A bit like Aussies ( mix of Celtic , Viking , Saxon and Normans ) and had a democratic government .
Australia is a very different today as a result , and one I am very proud of .
A Nation has been built .
My mother is Dutch and dads parents were Poms .
YES , with lots of mistakes and PAIN !!!
Hundreds of thousands of Australians gave their lives to keep Australia , Australia , during Two World Wars .
That is also pain .
Our country is Rated highly overseas .
People overseas respect and like Australians .
I am very proud of , most , Australians .

Pop Down Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:24pm

Sorry , missed the edit - Another Nation has been built on the foundations of our FNP Nation .
Strong foundations that I am proud of , and love to embrace .
However , I have met Rosie Batty and want women and children to feel safe .
The stats in FNP are a National disgrace !
This is an Urgent problem !
I used to love the idea of a "Noble Savage" ( especially being a surfer ) .
I spoke with a Tribal Chief if Fiji 20 years ago . A wonderful Tropical Paradise .
I told him about my life ( 9-5 haha and kids ) and said I envied him .
He said that the villages biggest worry was losing a child to a medical emergency , as they were so far from Suva . He envied Australia's Health system and wanted the villages kids to get an education and join the "New World " and have more kids .
Fijians really LOVE kids lol

southernraw Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:33pm

Has Indo made a new profile??

basesix Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:38pm

haha, SR, same same, spacing around punctuation etc. instead of spelling mistakes, fiji instead of bali, older generation, but yeh, same same.

harrycoopr Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:36pm

Pop Down wrote:
....unless you are a black fella
I disagree , Harry .
Our FNP were the most recent to experience the "Clash of Economic " systems and get disrupted .
It was always going to happen .
Gosh , the Poms were actually the best option ( of are very bad bunch , we could all be Catholics ) . A bit like Aussies ( mix of Celtic , Viking , Saxon and Normans ) and had a democratic government .
Australia is a very different today as a result , and one I am very proud of .
A Nation has been built .
My mother is Dutch and dads parents were Poms .
YES , with lots of mistakes and PAIN !!!
Hundreds of thousands of Australians gave their lives to keep Australia , Australia , during Two World Wars .
That is also pain .
Our country is Rated highly overseas .
People overseas respect and like Australians .
I am very proud of , most , Australians .

Yeah the Dutch were pretty brutal... got told to f*ck off in 1606 by the Wik people on Cape York.. so they went and harrassed the Indonesians for years. The poms were pretty brutal too... lots of massacres and rapes of Aboriginal people... I won't go into some of the more gory details. Funny how Aboriginal people helped whitey on explorations or whenever they were in trouble in the bush. But today, yeah Australia's a great place for us privileged whitefellas... a nation built on the backs of blacks as they say. Great nation... unless yr an Aboriginal youth likely to be incarcerated or part of one of the highest suicide rates in the world.. or any other number of social factors that make up the GAP. It is a great country.. if yr a whitey.

burleigh Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:45pm

harrycoopr wrote:
Pop Down wrote:
....unless you are a black fella
I disagree , Harry .
Our FNP were the most recent to experience the "Clash of Economic " systems and get disrupted .
It was always going to happen .
Gosh , the Poms were actually the best option ( of are very bad bunch , we could all be Catholics ) . A bit like Aussies ( mix of Celtic , Viking , Saxon and Normans ) and had a democratic government .
Australia is a very different today as a result , and one I am very proud of .
A Nation has been built .
My mother is Dutch and dads parents were Poms .
YES , with lots of mistakes and PAIN !!!
Hundreds of thousands of Australians gave their lives to keep Australia , Australia , during Two World Wars .
That is also pain .
Our country is Rated highly overseas .
People overseas respect and like Australians .
I am very proud of , most , Australians .

Yeah the Dutch were pretty brutal... got told to f*ck off in 1606 by the Wik people on Cape York.. so they went and harrassed the Indonesians for years. The poms were pretty brutal too... lots of massacres and rapes of Aboriginal people... I won't go into some of the more gory details. Funny how Aboriginal people helped whitey on explorations or whenever they were in trouble in the bush. But today, yeah Australia's a great place for us privileged whitefellas... a nation built on the backs of blacks as they say. Great nation... unless yr an Aboriginal youth likely to be incarcerated or part of one of the highest suicide rates in the world.. or any other number of social factors that make up the GAP. It is a great country.. if yr a whitey.

More doom and gloom for the number one peanut on swellnet in 2023.

Fuck mate, go for a surf.

AndyM Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:54pm

“For people to vote no to take a swipe at “Albo’s voice “ is really miserable thinking.”

Ain’t it just.
To lump this issue in with partisan politics is quite tragic.

harrycoopr Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 1:56pm

burleigh wrote:
harrycoopr wrote:
Pop Down wrote:
....unless you are a black fella
I disagree , Harry .
Our FNP were the most recent to experience the "Clash of Economic " systems and get disrupted .
It was always going to happen .
Gosh , the Poms were actually the best option ( of are very bad bunch , we could all be Catholics ) . A bit like Aussies ( mix of Celtic , Viking , Saxon and Normans ) and had a democratic government .
Australia is a very different today as a result , and one I am very proud of .
A Nation has been built .
My mother is Dutch and dads parents were Poms .
YES , with lots of mistakes and PAIN !!!
Hundreds of thousands of Australians gave their lives to keep Australia , Australia , during Two World Wars .
That is also pain .
Our country is Rated highly overseas .
People overseas respect and like Australians .
I am very proud of , most , Australians .

Yeah the Dutch were pretty brutal... got told to f*ck off in 1606 by the Wik people on Cape York.. so they went and harrassed the Indonesians for years. The poms were pretty brutal too... lots of massacres and rapes of Aboriginal people... I won't go into some of the more gory details. Funny how Aboriginal people helped whitey on explorations or whenever they were in trouble in the bush. But today, yeah Australia's a great place for us privileged whitefellas... a nation built on the backs of blacks as they say. Great nation... unless yr an Aboriginal youth likely to be incarcerated or part of one of the highest suicide rates in the world.. or any other number of social factors that make up the GAP. It is a great country.. if yr a whitey.

More doom and gloom for the number one peanut on swellnet in 2023.

Fuck mate, go for a surf.

...just the truth fishfood... deal with it. Thing is you can't... that's why yr a moron.

goofyfoot Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 2:03pm

southernraw wrote:
Has Indo made a new profile??

Hutchy I think?

Pop Down Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 2:09pm

Harry - if U go back in history it will be hard to find any colonisers who did niceness or treaties . Muslims , the Khan's , Egyptians etc made the Dutch , Spanish and Poms look like Nice guys .
U do know who started slavery .
I am Old , but wasn't there when the Wit's told the Dutch to F off , but did read the FNP people had nothing the Dutch wanted to trade .
It's just they way it is .
Other nations have had longer to deal with this issue .
All nations have to put resentments aside to move on .
They , as U said " have to "Deal with It ".

southernraw Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 2:10pm

goofyfoot wrote:
southernraw wrote:
Has Indo made a new profile??

Hutchy I think?

Haha that was my second guess

burleigh Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 2:16pm

southernraw wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:
southernraw wrote:
Has Indo made a new profile??

Hutchy I think?

Haha that was my second guess

Better go check the forum rules Southerncooked. Put your complaint right to the top. It will make you feel superior.

harrycoopr Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 2:52pm

Pop Down wrote:
Harry - if U go back in history it will be hard to find any colonisers who did niceness or treaties . Muslims , the Khan's , Egyptians etc made the Dutch , Spanish and Poms look like Nice guys .
U do know who started slavery .
I am Old , but wasn't there when the Wit's told the Dutch to F off , but did read the FNP people had nothing the Dutch wanted to trade .
It's just they way it is .
Other nations have had longer to deal with this issue .
All nations have to put resentments aside to move on .
They , as U said " have to "Deal with It ".

And that, my fellow Australian, is what the Yes vote is about... Dealing with it. You get it now??

seeds Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 3:00pm

Power imbalance.
Get over it. We have to move on.
Said by the majority that reaped the benefits.

truebluebasher Saturday, 14 Oct 2023 at 3:01pm

1999 Preamble Reffo Retrospective...
Upfront...tbb acknowledges credit below...
Mostly as this reffo has less Electoral impact on the day so involves less outside distraction.
Lending a preamble forward + comparisons + wash up + Links to 2023
Chapters ATSIC chairs > Howard's black slave > Reffo Convention > 2nd Reffo > Andren's Voice

The Age of Lowitja...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowitja_O%27Donoghue

March 1996 Howard Govt (Yeah/Nah) Not my cup of tea...
Dec 1996 Howard dumped the Humanitarian to adopt business as usual...
ATSIC Era of Gatjil Country
Meaning : Magnates lay mine claims & Johnnie's black slave boy banks the cheques.
1st example of Howard Symbolism :
Stolen Gen (Apology) + [alp] ATSIC Deaths in custody Report lands in Howard's Lap...
26 May becomes Sorry 'Day...the bloke is all heart! What does an [L] PM do to mark Sorry Day!
Gatjil sells Johnnie's 1st Coal Mine mine site + Slave crew to Rio Tinto for a cool $400m.
Self determination Twiggy style > No more welfare for this lot > $2hr & cough yer guts out...Mush!

Feb 1998 Constitutional Convention for Republic Referendum
Day 1 : ARM Malcom Turnbull states that the Preamble is not LAW within the constitution.
He Motions for Gods blessing for First Nation in preamble as a Reffo warmer.

Group 3 [ ATSIC ] Johnnie's Gatjil is cool with that ... motions...Why not make it a Separate Reffo.
Who in the room was to argue with ATSIC head, wishing a Welcome to Oz Aboriginals & no more!
During 1998 Howard played down support for the Reffo.
Oct 1988 Howard is re-elected > Xmas break
8 Feb 1999 Howard :"As I tour the country I find more support for Aboriginal recognition than Republic!
I now see the need to embed it into the Preamble!"
16 Feb [L] Approve 2 Reffos
17 Feb Howard states he'll be writing it thanks! Say Wot!
As crew know...everyone vomited...including Howard..'Wot! Is that not condescending enough!'
He tries again to make it so repulsive that yer average Voter will draw dic pics & Vote [NO] + Hell [NO]
Reads : I thank God for Mal & my slave-boy Gatjil for their goodwill mateship - Reffo tanking gesture!

Gatjil Gallery of Villains
Just Mining my own secret men's business
https://www.stonefamilyinaustralia.com.au/shane_stone/archive_items/2729
Credits on Gatjil
Gatjil's sorry day deal with Rio Tinto (Cemented the with 2020 Sorry Day Rio Fireworks)
https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/0b7c594294d99740ed267a58e7c86831
Unconventional Wisdom
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/762787
Bored of being director of every board on the monopoly board
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatjil_Djerrkura
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/06/ausz-j02.html

Preamble continues...
By mid year...Just got worse as Howard got uptight about all the Haterz...'Just leave it out mate!'
1 July : New Senate & New Dem's Black Boy 'Ridgeway' for Johnnie to play with.
Rest of Oz ...Aborigines included tell the loving couple to get a room....

Aug : Conference > Aborigines / ARM / ALP want Johnnie to Stop with his Preamble Reffo caper!
ARM Leaders Beazley / Turnbull said the 2nd reffo will torpedo the Republican Reffo.

Dems once again Stamped any shit Johnnie put before them...now the Bill passed...
All asked the loving pair if Aborigines get anything outta it..."Well it says Aborigine...don't it...better?"
OMG OMG OMG...
ALP withdrew any opposition as it will blow back on moral support for the Republic Reffo!

September polling showed a dash over 50% support for Preamble
Howard now had is overriding support for ramping disdain for repulsive Reffos.

All but one...as there had to be at least 1 vote in opposition to mount a No Case.

Calare Independent Peter Andren said No! fuck No! This is not the way home!
Andren was Local News Reader & most highly respected Indy Pollie & championed Ground up Treaty!
Peter drafted the 1999 [ Don't Know Vote No] Booklet...(Yep!) That 2023 Booklet Clause 1 copies!
Apparently > Senate Bob Brown / Hanson threw in a few cents worth.
Note : Hansom also drafted original 2023 [NO] campaign...Jacinta sneezed on it...no thanks dol'!

At this point...we can't be sure if he was taking the piss [ Don't Know Vote No ] Republic Pamphlet.
Or even if he drafted both [No] Booklets with same Leading clauses as 2023 [ Don't know Vote No ]
Claims that it parodied Johnnies don't go mesin' with our Sacred men's business
Only now does an insider claim it was Peter's insight that Voters are inherently lazy as in ...Fuck It!
https://switzer.com.au/the-experts/malcolm-mackerras/the-voice-referendu...
Reminding this could only happen after the 1967 switch over to the exploitative [L] [YES] jingles
Universal Voting [x] is way too innocent & fair for bastardized Oz Bogan Slogan Reffos...Kill Kill Kill.
UN say to not do this as it only starts wars...Oz "Pigs Arse...we can now sell bucket loads of shit!"

The dude was a media guru...he could drum this up, if he so chooses to defend Aboriginal pride!

History seldom divulges if Pollies or Public Servants draft Reffo Cases...even still Now...(No Authors)
Just that parliament motion & oversee either case for Voting Pamphlets...(Technically...crew can do it!)
History shows you gotta be half honest if others ask!
AEC : "There is ZERO fact checking!"...it's all spin...Not authorized by no one! As in multi Ghost writers!

Early Nov : Pre Polling of 38% showed [ Don't Know Vote Know ] Knocked off a healthy 10%

6 Nov 1999 Oz vote 45% for Republic + 40% for Aboriginal Preamble

Postmortem...
All agree Libs fucked over another of The Empire's Constitutional Sovereign Jewels.
Never again touch the Constitution for 24 years & again now...likely another 150 years!
Just as 1967 the Libs shit & piss of Queen's Convention to save their own cowardly arses.
Not long after Johnnie pork barrels more WMD for Axis of Evil to kill off our Queens army!
UK : Traitor they all shout! Off with his head...#1 Monarchist is not fit to be a Corgi Poop Scooper!

In the Wash up...
2022 Indigenous Law Bulletin > Andren drafts ...The Thoughts of Treaty in Australia
http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/journals/ILB/2002/68.html

Oct 2007 Just as his Mentor Menzies...Howard is faced with sucking on Aboriginal Blood to survive!
Just as his fake monarchy mate are the only 2 that fuck over the Empire's Constitution to survive.

Howard : On last legs he finds God...'I exploit all Black Bastards equally...please save me!'
https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id...

Further Reading
2007 Andren's Funeral -Welcome to Country
https://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2007/11/09/2087004.htm

Windsor on Andren's devotion to Aboriginal recognition.
https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id...

https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=KL6
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Andren

Peter Andren's Titles were well ahead of the time > front & centre here & now!

An Independent Way in Australian Politics (Teals' Bible!)
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2152429.The_Andren_Report

Peter's legacy doesn't end here...in fact it continues to play out big time in 2023 Reffo.
Peter's understudy Tim Payne heads Sydney Uni > Redfern style ground up Treaty Campaign...
Teals launch Grass Roots Voice Treaty campaign in Peter's old Electorate...
This be personal...[Don't know Vote No] Makes good Fertilizer for the grass roots ground up Treaty!

Maybe squeeze in more detail of 1999 Reffo > 2023 Legacy...
Obviously a work in gradual decline.
Also what dirty deed Albo did when first elected that shattered Andren's legacy & Voice crews!

Thanx for reading...best wishes on yer choice...long road ahead either way...all know that!

Credits
https://www.unswlawjournal.unsw.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/24-2-1...
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2004B00537

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The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

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