The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

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bluediamond started the topic in Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

seeds's picture
seeds's picture
seeds Wednesday, 11 Oct 2023 at 9:00pm
harrycoopr wrote:
basesix wrote:

I think you are simplifying the Goliath of No reasons that are out there, @indo.

I was just at a wine&tapas bar in Robe, a small tourist town, and two caucasian Aussie women (one proudly claimed Italian heritage) were describing the Voice to a Yorkshire couple they had just met. One went on about Austudy and Abstudy in the 90s and kept saying 'oh, they are WELL looked after'.. the other kept saying 'they burn their houses down, not all of them, not sure percentages, but we give them houses and they burn them down'. They went on and on and didn't address anything. Certainly not the constitution.

The Yorkies were trying to navigate the aboriginal-privilege stuff their new friends were spouting, by saying 'well.. the best person for the job, should get the job, for sure...'

That's what I'm saying... we're not all racist but.... we're not all aware of our racism but... we're definitely not racist but... we don't even know if we're racist but

And we’ll come up with any argument to say NO that isn’t racist on the face of it. Or deep down is that coming from that ingrained “base” racism that we aren’t even aware is guiding our attitudes. The ‘we are all equal’ one gets me. Haha. Only since the Voice was announced hey!

Supafreak's picture
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Supafreak Wednesday, 11 Oct 2023 at 8:56pm
sypkan wrote:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5drDe1kvTk

geez this was interesting too

loved the little hardnut kuarna actress girl whose name escapes me...

hard as nails, and like an unruly schoolkid for patricia karvelas to control

made burney and friends most uncomfortable too

her direct questioning to peter malinaukas was most impressive

and fuck me if I couldn't but wholeheatedly agree with her about the digging up of 31 of her ancestors for the riverlea development north of adelaide

peter... fucking weazal words... the show must go on...

That was a very interesting Q&A

seeds's picture
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seeds Wednesday, 11 Oct 2023 at 9:00pm

Hehe he was squirming.

basesix's picture
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basesix Wednesday, 11 Oct 2023 at 9:03pm

yeh, cheers sypkan. can't stomach those shows atm, like during covid, I unplugged from it all, but that was good.

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flollo Wednesday, 11 Oct 2023 at 9:12pm
Supafreak wrote:
sypkan wrote:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5drDe1kvTk

geez this was interesting too

loved the little hardnut kuarna actress girl whose name escapes me...

hard as nails, and like an unruly schoolkid for patricia karvelas to control

made burney and friends most uncomfortable too

her direct questioning to peter malinaukas was most impressive

and fuck me if I couldn't but wholeheatedly agree with her about the digging up of 31 of her ancestors for the riverlea development north of adelaide

peter... fucking weazal words... the show must go on...

That was a very interesting Q&A

Something stinks about that Riverlea development. I really don’t understand how were they allowed to put a set of lights on the freeway. Surely the state should’ve requested an overpass/underpass to be built for such a development. The only set of lights between Adelaide and Port Wakefield. I’m pretty sure we’ll be looking at a taxpayer funded overpass in the near future. Really strange.

seeds's picture
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seeds Wednesday, 11 Oct 2023 at 9:13pm

Here’s some explanation. I thought she was great anyway. Squirm mofo squirm after your shitty claims.
https://apple.news/AFc59-aj2QxarOYU6NGm5_A

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 11 Oct 2023 at 10:18pm
sypkan wrote:

and speaking of uncomfortable...

https://twitter.com/FranMooMoo/status/1711316246103507142

I went to effort to watch the whole thing this was probably the highlight and Jacinta's finishing argument.

It was actually funny to see Jacinta and Lidia sitting there next to each other, in some ways in total agreement but in other ways polar opposites.

Jacinta has publicly challenged to debate both Linda & Albo both declined it's such a pity would be so entertaining i have no idea how Linda has that position she just seems so out of her depth.

To be fair to Albo though a debate about an Aboriginal issue's with an Aboriginal person like Jacinta wouldnt be fair, so he gets a free pass on this one.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 11 Oct 2023 at 10:46pm

Im sure she would be up for it.

BTW. In relation to that topic this is interesting.

A resolve poll as part as voice polling asked the question

sypkan's picture
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sypkan Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 12:48am

"Something stinks about that Riverlea development. I really don’t understand how were they allowed to put a set of lights on the freeway..."

totally!

does my head in everytime I drive through

all the works and time invested into to making that stretch flow... then the whole world stops for some shitty housing development with some seriously ugly out of place grandiose entrance...

something stinks!

and someone has a perth fetish

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Craig Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 6:12am

^^ Yeah very fishy eh. Makes no sense at all.

And flollo I didn't know indigenous were dug up there for the estate, that's disgraceful. Especially with how much land there is out that way.

Reform's picture
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Reform Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 7:23am

Sorry not to detract from this disturbing news in Sth Aust residential building estate
But a short take on an experience with indigenous people:

I once worked with 2 Indigenous men, both Carpenters on a building project. It was a very large residential job for a very wealthy client. The build cost was around 20 mil to give an idea of the project complexity. The floor plan shape had many circles that overlapped so where they joined made interesting connections of architecture and design.
These 2 guys were the “A” team of a few teams. They had been working for the builder for eons and paid well for their provision. They were smart, rational, no fuss, we’ve got a job to do so let’s just cruise into it and do it. They worked steadily and brilliantly. They were fun and making jokes all the time and were just a pleasure to be around.
I’m sharing this here because one aspect I’m now reflecting on is that these two were incredibly loyal to the builder. Now ordinarily that would be a good thing and obviously it is a good thing! Every enterprise relies on loyalty. This comes with a ‘But’.

But their dedication came at a cost, to the point where they were almost relinquishing their rights as free thinkers. Although they had great ideas for the advancement of the project they didn’t really VOICE UP.

Now and on reflection, I reckon this is an example of the Aboriginal psyche. For the ones that are caught in the system of enterprise, they are followers, although they are in high positions it has come at a cost for them spiritually, personally and practically.

Generally, and this is only my guess and naïve take on this view for the aboriginal people. They feel and act differently to us non-indigenous. They have another way, a spiritual connection that only they can appreciate. We can only estimate what it is like. They live in the moment and any restrictions imposed on them are unfamiliar for them. It’s why they don’t respond well to Government’s making decisions for them, providing housing for them, judging them, corralling them, incarcerating them and whatever else to them!
They need a VOICE!

I refer to the above observation of these two aboriginal guys and reflect on the aboriginal people that live in the cities and are the ones that we all work with and trade with. Some are articulating that the voice isn’t good for them. I believe they are just echoing the mainstream hard line approach of opposition to appease the moment.
They are subject to a wave of opposition to the voice. So I reckon they are just merely going along with the No side to appease the attitudes and sentiments of those that are the detractors to ‘The Voice’

So to all you people out there who answer me when I ask you “So what do you think about the voice?”
And they answer “Oh well…….. You know I work with and have friends who are Aboriginal people and they’re against it”
I am now going to answer back.. “Did you ask them why. Did you really find out just what it is as to why they are against the voice, because if you don’t understand it yourself, then you aren’t doing them any favours to help them out of this rather retched situation they find themselves subjected to”

A vote for No is a vote for the pathetic LNP and they are not just and honourable people!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

AlfredWallace's picture
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AlfredWallace Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 7:54am
Reform wrote:

Sorry not to detract from this disturbing news in Sth Aust residential building estate
But a short take on an experience with indigenous people:

I once worked with 2 Indigenous men, both Carpenters on a building project. It was a very large residential job for a very wealthy client. The build cost was around 20 mil to give an idea of the project complexity. The floor plan shape had many circles that overlapped so where they joined made interesting connections of architecture and design.
These 2 guys were the “A” team of a few teams. They had been working for the builder for eons and paid well for their provision. They were smart, rational, no fuss, we’ve got a job to do so let’s just cruise into it and do it. They worked steadily and brilliantly. They were fun and making jokes all the time and were just a pleasure to be around.
I’m sharing this here because one aspect I’m now reflecting on is that these two were incredibly loyal to the builder. Now ordinarily that would be a good thing and obviously it is a good thing! Every enterprise relies on loyalty. This comes with a ‘But’.

But their dedication came at a cost, to the point where they were almost relinquishing their rights as free thinkers. Although they had great ideas for the advancement of the project they didn’t really VOICE UP.

Now and on reflection, I reckon this is an example of the Aboriginal psyche. For the ones that are caught in the system of enterprise, they are followers, although they are in high positions it has come at a cost for them spiritually, personally and practically.

Generally, and this is only my guess and naïve take on this view for the aboriginal people. They feel and act differently to us non-indigenous. They have another way, a spiritual connection that only they can appreciate. We can only estimate what it is like. They live in the moment and any restrictions imposed on them are unfamiliar for them. It’s why they don’t respond well to Government’s making decisions for them, providing housing for them, judging them, corralling them, incarcerating them and whatever else to them!
They need a VOICE!

I refer to the above observation of these two aboriginal guys and reflect on the aboriginal people that live in the cities and are the ones that we all work with and trade with. Some are articulating that the voice isn’t good for them. I believe they are just echoing the mainstream hard line approach of opposition to appease the moment.
They are subject to a wave of opposition to the voice. So I reckon they are just merely going along with the No side to appease the attitudes and sentiments of those that are the detractors to ‘The Voice’

So to all you people out there who answer me when I ask you “So what do you think about the voice?”
And they answer “Oh well…….. You know I work with and have friends who are Aboriginal people and they’re against it”
I am now going to answer back.. “Did you ask them why. Did you really find out just what it is as to why they are against the voice, because if you don’t understand it yourself, then you aren’t doing them any favours to help them out of this rather retched situation they find themselves subjected to”

A vote for No is a vote for the pathetic LNP and they are not just and honourable people!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Reform. YES, nice work. AW

Reform's picture
Reform's picture
Reform Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 8:13am

Cheers Alfred, Happy to oblige!
Have a very nice and safe day to all!

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 8:29am

Indo - "80% of indigenous people in built up regions have outcomes no different to the rest of the population."

I’ll assume you pulled that figure out of your arse.

harrycoopr's picture
harrycoopr's picture
harrycoopr Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 8:41am
AlfredWallace wrote:
Reform wrote:

Sorry not to detract from this disturbing news in Sth Aust residential building estate
But a short take on an experience with indigenous people:

I once worked with 2 Indigenous men, both Carpenters on a building project. It was a very large residential job for a very wealthy client. The build cost was around 20 mil to give an idea of the project complexity. The floor plan shape had many circles that overlapped so where they joined made interesting connections of architecture and design.
These 2 guys were the “A” team of a few teams. They had been working for the builder for eons and paid well for their provision. They were smart, rational, no fuss, we’ve got a job to do so let’s just cruise into it and do it. They worked steadily and brilliantly. They were fun and making jokes all the time and were just a pleasure to be around.
I’m sharing this here because one aspect I’m now reflecting on is that these two were incredibly loyal to the builder. Now ordinarily that would be a good thing and obviously it is a good thing! Every enterprise relies on loyalty. This comes with a ‘But’.

But their dedication came at a cost, to the point where they were almost relinquishing their rights as free thinkers. Although they had great ideas for the advancement of the project they didn’t really VOICE UP.

Now and on reflection, I reckon this is an example of the Aboriginal psyche. For the ones that are caught in the system of enterprise, they are followers, although they are in high positions it has come at a cost for them spiritually, personally and practically.

Generally, and this is only my guess and naïve take on this view for the aboriginal people. They feel and act differently to us non-indigenous. They have another way, a spiritual connection that only they can appreciate. We can only estimate what it is like. They live in the moment and any restrictions imposed on them are unfamiliar for them. It’s why they don’t respond well to Government’s making decisions for them, providing housing for them, judging them, corralling them, incarcerating them and whatever else to them!
They need a VOICE!

I refer to the above observation of these two aboriginal guys and reflect on the aboriginal people that live in the cities and are the ones that we all work with and trade with. Some are articulating that the voice isn’t good for them. I believe they are just echoing the mainstream hard line approach of opposition to appease the moment.
They are subject to a wave of opposition to the voice. So I reckon they are just merely going along with the No side to appease the attitudes and sentiments of those that are the detractors to ‘The Voice’

So to all you people out there who answer me when I ask you “So what do you think about the voice?”
And they answer “Oh well…….. You know I work with and have friends who are Aboriginal people and they’re against it”
I am now going to answer back.. “Did you ask them why. Did you really find out just what it is as to why they are against the voice, because if you don’t understand it yourself, then you aren’t doing them any favours to help them out of this rather retched situation they find themselves subjected to”

A vote for No is a vote for the pathetic LNP and they are not just and honourable people!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Vote YES!

Reform. YES, nice work. AW

Interesting and thoughtful take Reform... in early anthropology people couldn't understand why blackfellas always said "yes" to a question when they obviously meant "no"... The yes was so that the person asking wouldn't feel let down or hurt by a no! Even if they knew it was a lie they didn't want to hurt yr feelings!!

harrycoopr's picture
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harrycoopr Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 8:43am
AndyM wrote:

Indo - "80% of indigenous people in built up regions have outcomes no different to the rest of the population."

I’ll assume you pulled that figure out of your arse.

He's got a big arse Andy... he's pulled a helluva lot out of it

harrycoopr's picture
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harrycoopr Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 8:56am
indo-dreaming wrote:

Im sure she would be up for it.

BTW. In relation to that topic this is interesting.

A resolve poll as part as voice polling asked the question

Like the average knucklehead knows about this
#boycottindo

waveman's picture
waveman's picture
waveman Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:03am

Not so long ago the alp and the left would never have supported such an idea as the voice (discriminatory). They do now…

The voice feeds into the modern progressive left idea of racial guilt. Albanese and alp buy into this. Fortunately it seems a lot of ordinary Australians don’t (recent polls suggest strong support for no vote).

harrycoopr's picture
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harrycoopr Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:11am
waveman wrote:

Not so long ago the alp and the left would never have supported such an idea as the voice (discriminatory). They do now…

The voice feeds into the modern progressive left idea of racial guilt. Albanese and alp buy into this. Fortunately it seems a lot of ordinary Australians don’t (recent polls suggest strong support for no vote).

Yr an idiot

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:35am
AndyM wrote:

Indo - "80% of indigenous people in built up regions have outcomes no different to the rest of the population."

I’ll assume you pulled that figure out of your arse.

It's a figure quoted in books and been in articles and interviews etc, but no I cant find the source.

Trying to google something like that is impossible and admittedly when you google the topic you come up with all kinds of conflicting information and studies and stats.

I dont even know what year that stat comes from its probably even better now considering the huge increase in last census in Aboriginal population, that can only be explained by people identifying as Aboriginal.

BTW related to both aspects of mixed race people and idea of this divide is this below, if there is such a division, why are we partnering up together?

"The 2006 census found that 52% of Aboriginal men and 55% of Aboriginal women had non-Aboriginal partners,

Source: Mixed race couples - Creative Spirits, retrieved from https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/mixed-race-cou...

BTW. as you might know im a big fan of mixed race couples/marriages even if i wasn't married to an Indonesian id be with some lady of colour, i think its the ultimate way of bringing people and cultures together.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:29am

@harrycoopr

I was interested in seeing how much my post in this thread compared to others, seeing ive had some criticise me for posting too much here.

Yesterday i went back and counted all the post for five pages back, at that stage you easily won the tally.

Harry=38

Indo= 24

Sameas=16

Supa=15

Jelly=12

Burleigh=7

Others ten or less post.

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GuySmiley Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:32am

“It's a figure quoted in books ….”

You read books these days @info coz previously you’ve said you don’t, something to do with the tip of your finger getting sore.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:38am

Indo I don’t believe you.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:48am

@Guy

Im not a big book reader and often dont finish them, but will once in a while get a book from the Library often ordered in and i generally read a book every Indo trip, i havent read a book for a while though, its not my fingers that are the issue, its the fact i need reading glasses i noticed mates are all getting them now but im just having trouble accepting the ageing process.

@AndyM

That's fine, believe what you want.

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san Guine Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:46am

"Given current mortality patterns, Indigenous males born in 2015–2017 could expect to live 71.6 years, and Indigenous females 75.6 years (ABS 2018)."

cf.

" In Australia, a boy born in 2019–2021 can expect to live to the age of 81.3 years and a girl would be expected to live to 85.4 years"

"On average, Indigenous Australians living in remote areas having higher rates of disease burden and lower life expectancy compared with those in non-remote areas. Key contributors to this include differences in educational and employment opportunities, in access to health services, in housing circumstances, and in other factors that support healthy behaviours (such as the availability and cost of fresh fruit and vegetables)."

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/life-expectancy-deaths/deaths-in-austral...

https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-health/indigenous-health-and-...

AndyM's picture
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AndyM Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:47am
indo-dreaming wrote:

@Guy

Im not a big book reader and often dont finish them, but will once in a while get a book from Library often ordered in and i generally read a book every Indo trip, i havent read one for a while though, its not my fingers that are the issue, its the fact i need reading glasses i noticed mates are all getting them now but im just having trouble accepting the ageing process.

@AndyM

That's fine, believe what you want.

You're a gobshite.
Shit dribbler.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 9:53am

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

basesix's picture
basesix's picture
basesix Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 10:03am
indo-dreaming wrote:

@harrycoopr

I was interested in seeing how much my post in this thread compared to others, seeing ive had some criticise me for posting too much here.

Yesterday i went back and counted all the post for five pages back, at that stage you easily won the tally.

Harry=38
Indo= 24
Sameas=16
Supa=15
Jelly=12
Burleigh=7
Others ten or less post.

well, here's a compliment @indo ^^best post you've ever made: phenomenologically driven primary research - not stanky, tribal, media-beat-up opinion, keep it up.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 10:02am
indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

It's a fact.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 10:42am

….. and another one goes through to the keeper.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 11:34am
indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 11:36am

Seems the gritters here are the minority when it comes to the voice yet they have the loudest bark?
Maybe that's part of the problem.

https://www.bluebet.com.au/sports/Politics/142/Australian-Referendums/Th...

Sprout's picture
Sprout's picture
Sprout Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 11:40am

Voted YES today.
Good vibes to all.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 11:42am
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 11:49am
burleigh wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

He's using gritters again! It's just like on Mean Girls when Gretchen tries to make "fetch" happen.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 11:49am
udo wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyJnx4ChyQa/

Anthony Mundine has always fought for FNP. He's still fighting for them

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 12:19pm
Hiccups wrote:
burleigh wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

He's using gritters again! It's just like on Mean Girls when Gretchen tries to make "fetch" happen.

Hiccups you throw like a girl.

harrycoopr's picture
harrycoopr's picture
harrycoopr Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 2:10pm
basesix wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

@harrycoopr

I was interested in seeing how much my post in this thread compared to others, seeing ive had some criticise me for posting too much here.

Yesterday i went back and counted all the post for five pages back, at that stage you easily won the tally.

Harry=38
Indo= 24
Sameas=16
Supa=15
Jelly=12
Burleigh=7
Others ten or less post.

well, here's a compliment @indo ^^best post you've ever made: phenomenologically driven primary research - not stanky, tribal, media-beat-up opinion, keep it up.

A lot of mine are just reminding people they're dikheads

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GuySmiley Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 2:16pm

….and that @Harry is a noble cause!

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 2:16pm
burleigh wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

That wasn't a persona insult, it was just pointing out the complete lack of credibility in Indo's argument :)

harrycoopr's picture
harrycoopr's picture
harrycoopr Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 2:55pm
GuySmiley wrote:

….and that @Harry is a noble cause!

U betcha!! Someone's gotta tell them...

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 3:12pm

I’d like to thank the SN staff for putting up with these threads , it must be exhausting to day in day out go over the comments thrown around. It’s not the type of job I would do and I can fully understand how frustrating it must be at times. Keeping a sense of humour about it all I imagine would help . Hats off to you guys .

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 3:21pm
burleigh wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Gees what a surprise more personal insults.

Yep. It's none stop Indo. Feel sorry for them.

Also. Southernraw has been calling me out against "breaking forum rules" yet he stays dead silent when insults are flung your way.

Southern, you going to call out AndyM for personal insult against Indo?

IMHO constant pointless insults and personal abuse is just a sign they dont have anything of real substance to say or know they are wrong but just dont want to admit it

Ha ha yep i saw that with SR, Just ridiculous.

burleigh wrote:

Seems the gritters here are the minority when it comes to the voice yet they have the loudest bark?
Maybe that's part of the problem.

https://www.bluebet.com.au/sports/Politics/142/Australian-Referendums/Th...

Yep and the funny thing is most are 40+ many here 50 even 60 plus

If you look at the polls these people Yes voters in the over 50 age groups are a clear minority around 27% of voters in their age group

Anyway its almost certain that we will get the last laugh on Saturday night.

"Leading pollster declares there’s ‘no chance’ the Voice referendum will succeed

A leading pollster has declared the numbers are so bad in some states that Voice campaigners should “just give up” now, days out from voting."

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/leading-pollster-declares-ther...

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 3:18pm
Supafreak wrote:

I’d like to thank the SN staff for putting up with these threads , it must be exhausting to day in day out go over the comments thrown around. It’s not the type of job I would do and I can fully understand how frustrating it must be at times. Keeping a sense of humour about it all I imagine would help . Hats off to you guys .

Yeah i do agree with this.

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stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 3:18pm

Thanks Supa.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 3:50pm

"constant pointless insults "

Indo if you're going to make stuff up to suit your ideology, you're going to get called out.
Why should people give your absolute nonsense a free pass?
You've tried this on for years, people are sick of it.

A Salty Dog's picture
A Salty Dog's picture
A Salty Dog Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 3:58pm

Indo said

Anyway its almost certain that we will get the last laugh on Saturday night.

Really mate, is that all it means to you.... something to laugh about.

Hahaha, yeah Dutto we got one back on Albo, hey great stuff. We win, that's all that matters.

I'll wager Dutton & Co will be running around patting each other on the back.

What a miserable, pathetic attitude from you lot.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 12 Oct 2023 at 4:21pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

I’d like to thank the SN staff for putting up with these threads , it must be exhausting to day in day out go over the comments thrown around. It’s not the type of job I would do and I can fully understand how frustrating it must be at times. Keeping a sense of humour about it all I imagine would help . Hats off to you guys .

Yeah i do agree with this.

So you agree then you’re not just the symptom but the root cause of most of the forum malarkey, I don’t know what to say apart from about fuckin time you developed some self awareness!!