The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
There are a percentage of FNP that don’t want the voice to parliament and a percentage that don’t even know about the referendum let alone understand it . There is also a large percentage that do want a voice to parliament and I feel for them as if no vote gets up they will be shattered . It will be another demoralising kick in the teeth. Definitely no laughing matter or something to puff your chest out about but that’s the attitude of some in Australia. This can still be a proud moment in history for Australia .
A Salty Dog wrote:Indo said
Anyway its almost certain that we will get the last laugh on Saturday night.
Really mate, is that all it means to you.... something to laugh about.
Hahaha, yeah Dutto we got one back on Albo, hey great stuff. We win, that's all that matters.
I'll wager Dutton & Co will be running around patting each other on the back.
What a miserable, pathetic attitude from you lot.
Yep something to laugh about.
The guys a fucking germ.
There’s an insult for you indo.
Quite right Supa, and thank you for the role you have played in this thread while convoluting, it has made it vaguely readable. No champagne, no matter who wins, it is not sportsbet, it is a tragedy that it has become a big mental thing, particularly for the group in question being under the ABRUPT spotlight in a way that is horrrrrrificly affecting them.
Maybe some good will come from what has been exposed, but shit, we will have some clean up, with what this has caused within the greater aboriginal community. LNPALP be damned, fuckers, who cares.. Wish the 3% could determine the clean-up from this shitfuckery for themselves via a positive vote.
I LOVE that FNPs have differing opinions about the voice, it will make it dynamic, and scrutinised by vested interest people. I wouldn't want it any other way.
That a handful of people being given an ongoing national avisory role (about issues that affect them), somehow is seen as being 'all' aboriginal people being given power. Sad as fuck.
Watching on abc the other day Fran Kelly and another lady ( can’t remember her name ) talking about the fallout from the voice to parliament . There are many FNP hating the fact they are under the spotlight and getting abused just for existing, doesn’t matter what there position is on the voice . The government apparently anticipated this and set aside $10 million towards the mental health organisations that would be dealing with their anguish. The 13 no. hotline set up for FNP is under enormous pressure from not being able to handle the amount of calls their receiving . Imagine the desperation some FNP are feeling and just want to get on with their lives but are being subjected to racism from the ugly Australians that do exist . Edit heres a similar article https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-10/budget-allocates-millions-to-supp...
AndyM wrote:"constant pointless insults "
Indo if you're going to make stuff up to suit your ideology, you're going to get called out.
Why should people give your absolute nonsense a free pass?
You've tried this on for years, people are sick of it.
Im sorry but despite your praise i cant take credit for making anything up, the view i share are held by many including Aboriginal people like Jacinta Price there has even been many books written around many of the things i discuss.
Yes i know you are sick of hearing views that are opposed to yours but thats your issue, deal with it honey.
DP
A Salty Dog wrote:Indo said
Anyway its almost certain that we will get the last laugh on Saturday night.
Really mate, is that all it means to you.... something to laugh about.
Hahaha, yeah Dutto we got one back on Albo, hey great stuff. We win, that's all that matters.
I'll wager Dutton & Co will be running around patting each other on the back.
What a miserable, pathetic attitude from you lot.
Dude preventing this getting up has been important for many for a whole host of reasons discussed here for weeks, so no its not just about political point scoring thats only the icing on the cake,
Ive taken heaps of shit here, literally pages of abuse and name calling, just because my view differ's to others, I or anyone else shouldn't have to take that barrage of abuse like we have, so yeah I and im sure others will take pleasure in the fact we get the last laugh..
Mistruth be told https://www.themonthly.com.au/the-politics/rachel-withers/2023/10/12/mis... Misinformation has been a huge part of this campaign, on both social and traditional media; spreading conspiracies was an express tactic of the “No” outlet, Fair Australia, while an emboldened Peter Dutton’s flagrant lies continue to reach disturbing new heights. But this exchange caused many to shake their heads in despair. How many soft voters might have been persuaded to vote “Yes” were it not for the outright lies?……..” Anyone associated with the “No” campaign should be deeply ashamed of themselves, whether they themselves spread lies or simply denied the lies were taking place. “
“ Ive taken heaps of shit here, literally pages of abuse and name calling, just because my view differ's to others”
You can’t be that fucken dense, surely?
That’s the question.
I keep waiting to find out that Indo is a made-up character, a piss-take.
You always punch down Indo, read some of your own comments and tell me you’re not going to get a bit of a kick out of a No result, like it’ll be something to celebrate and give the other side the bird with a smirk on your face. That’s what people see in your words
That’s why you cop so much shit.
Stu gave you a very tempered thought out response that didn’t pick sides, just provided another perspective and lived experience of the Middle East that could’ve triggered you to consider both sides and the events leading up to the weekend’s events. Go back and read your own reply, immediate and dismissive. You don’t discuss or debate, you just hammer. Weather you’re informed or not.
You enjoy whipping up the threads. You’ve even said it before.
That’s why the overwhelming sentiment amongst other posters is you’re a sniveling little cunt who loves to punch down.
Like i said you guys just cant handle view's that dont align with your own and think if gives you a right abuse others.
Here you are the majority in your views, but in the real world you are in the minority, the majority of Australia(especially 50+) are voting No and the majority of Australians including our PM are standing in solidarity with Israel.
No, it’s more than that.
Pontificating prat.
indo-dreaming wrote:Like i said you guys just cant handle view's that dont align with your own and think if gives you a right abuse others.
Here you are the majority in your views, but in the real world you are in the minority, the majority of Australia(especially 50+) are voting No and the majority of Australians including our PM are standing in solidarity with Israel.
"You can't handle the truth"
#boycottindo
indo-dreaming wrote:Like i said you guys just cant handle view's that dont align with your own and think if gives you a right abuse others.
Here you are the majority in your views, but in the real world you are in the minority, the majority of Australia(especially 50+) are voting No and the majority of Australians including our PM are standing in solidarity with Israel.
No original thoughts or reflection just justification of poor behaviour, “because I’m winning.”
Edit: Burleigh is a different story. I think, I don’t know, his position comes from a deep mistrust of government. Given the covid debacle I can understand and appreciate his grievances. I’ve seen no such avenue in anything you’ve presented.
“ Edit: Burleigh is a different story. I think, I don’t know, his position comes from a deep mistrust of government. Given the covid debacle I can understand and appreciate his grievances. I’ve seen no such avenue in anything you’ve presented.”
Yep, and there are other posters on here who are voting No and that’s fine, no one has any issues with them.
It’s the way Indo comes across in his posts that make you want to hold his head underwater
Until the bubbles stop?
Totally uncool fellas - That's so uncool, Your inciting a murderous inclinations! This isn't okay, please detract and make good on this.
Laura Tingle on 7.30 https://x.com/abcnews/status/1712396965479129230?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe7hKRZ.... Can only imagine the type of campaign leader of the no hopers is going to run next election.
“Whilst there are some people in the No campaign who are absolutely racist and using the division argument as a cloak to conceal their racism, I’d wager most people there are not racist. These people have a hangover from what they saw during the vaccine insanity. They are voting no in protest; a fuck you to the government for what happened in 2020-22 and the continuing refusal to acknowledge it.
The idea this is a WEFerendum has strongly taken root. Can you blame anyone for holding that view after what happened between 2020-22? You can call it disinformation if you like, but it’s probably closer to the truth than the assertion “the vaccine is safe and effective”.
This is what the Yes campaign and Yes voters are unwilling or unable to accept. Most people are incapable of admitting they are wrong. They retreat to the comfort of the lie, because it absolves them of responsibility. Accepting the truth shatters their illusions and there is no death so sad, as the death of an illusion.
If someone prominent in the Yes campaign just said:
“Look, we accept what happened with respect to the vaccine was disgusting and anti-democratic. We were misled and manipulated by the military grade propaganda that was deployed on the population. Many of us engaged in behaviours that we now know were not only unhealthy and un-Australian but absolutely authoritarian. You were wronged and we acknowledge the hurt and suffering you endured in losing friends, family and careers for not wanting a vaccine that we admit was not only ineffective, but in many cases unsafe. The injuries are real and not the domain of tin foil hat conspiracy theory. We can’t imagine what it must’ve been like to be contemplating being excluded from society indefinitely. We are deeply sorry and understand how you might be skeptical, but please join us in recognising Indigenous people in the Constitution.”
Some acknowledgement and contrition would go a long way. But probably not. It’s sad how toxic the whole thing has become. Views are entrenched. The time for conciliation and understanding passed us by in 2021 and there’s nothing that will persuade the No crowd to vote Yes and there’s nothing that will persuade the Yes crowd that there are legitimate reasons to vote No which are not racist.”
Hey Michael Adam,
I cannot see any comparison between the Covid vaccine rollout and this referendum, They are two completely different entities. Why do you compare them and judge that all yes voters were in favour of the Vaccine rollout, that is total prejudice and is totally untrue that all yes voters were in favour of the vac rollout. I will not state my status here on this forum of the Vaccine rollout because, somehow, some way, everything said online is tracked by the Govt. Make no mistake they have info on every one of us. They know who you are and if they want to they will find you!
But vote yes! by all means. It is a privilege to vote yes for the Aboriginal people give them a F----g Voice ! FFS! They'll so much appreciate it, geez!
totally michael adam!
the 'left' own that shit...
but they totally have not owned it!
they try to steam roll on like nothing happened... but the damage runs deep...
if they didn't play the cries of 'misinformation' game so hard, they might have pulled it off...
but they did... all over again... hard!
Reform wrote:Totally uncool fellas - That's so uncool, Your inciting a murderous inclinations! This isn't okay, please detract and make good on this.
Fair enough but was in jest. I don’t think Indo would have taken it that way. If he did I apologise.
now you've got me worried where you got that...
assuming it is a quote
Michael Adam wrote:“Whilst there are some people in the No campaign who are absolutely racist and using the division argument as a cloak to conceal their racism, I’d wager most people there are not racist. These people have a hangover from what they saw during the vaccine insanity. They are voting no in protest; a fuck you to the government for what happened in 2020-22 and the continuing refusal to acknowledge it.
The idea this is a WEFerendum has strongly taken root. Can you blame anyone for holding that view after what happened between 2020-22? You can call it disinformation if you like, but it’s probably closer to the truth than the assertion “the vaccine is safe and effective”.
This is what the Yes campaign and Yes voters are unwilling or unable to accept. Most people are incapable of admitting they are wrong. They retreat to the comfort of the lie, because it absolves them of responsibility. Accepting the truth shatters their illusions and there is no death so sad, as the death of an illusion.
If someone prominent in the Yes campaign just said:
“Look, we accept what happened with respect to the vaccine was disgusting and anti-democratic. We were misled and manipulated by the military grade propaganda that was deployed on the population. Many of us engaged in behaviours that we now know were not only unhealthy and un-Australian but absolutely authoritarian. You were wronged and we acknowledge the hurt and suffering you endured in losing friends, family and careers for not wanting a vaccine that we admit was not only ineffective, but in many cases unsafe. The injuries are real and not the domain of tin foil hat conspiracy theory. We can’t imagine what it must’ve been like to be contemplating being excluded from society indefinitely. We are deeply sorry and understand how you might be skeptical, but please join us in recognising Indigenous people in the Constitution.”
Some acknowledgement and contrition would go a long way. But probably not. It’s sad how toxic the whole thing has become. Views are entrenched. The time for conciliation and understanding passed us by in 2021 and there’s nothing that will persuade the No crowd to vote Yes and there’s nothing that will persuade the Yes crowd that there are legitimate reasons to vote No which are not racist.”
Separate matters bozo. Shame you can’t see that and bring all that baggage with you.
it's about trust reform
it was already at historical lows before the covid debacle
there's been a string of debacles...
where 'the left' cries 'conspiracy theory' and 'misinformation' all too loudly...
then 'history' shows otherwise...
you can't even call it history, the turnaround is so quick...
flat out obstinate denial is the vehement vitriolic practice, even after the world knows otherwise...
not all of the left, but a certain cohort is just plain delusional
they actually think they are pulling this shit off!
(looking at you mike carlton and friends)
sypkan wrote:now you've got me worried where you got that...
assuming it is a quote
No. I’m the no more bubbles killer. Just haven’t made the news yet.
sypkan wrote:totally michael adam!
the 'left' own that shit...
but they totally have not owned it!
they try to steam roll on like nothing happened... but the damage runs deep...
if they didn't play the cries of 'misinformation' game so hard, they might have pulled it off...
but they did... all over again... hard!
You have got to be fucking kidding me , it was scomo that shut the border and locked out australians from getting home , the federal government was In charge of aged care , you blame this current federal government for what happened during covid , fark me sypkan what is going on with you ?
"you guys just cant handle view's that dont align with your own"
You can't really think that's the reason why you get so much stick.
Surely not.
seeds wrote:sypkan wrote:now you've got me worried where you got that...
assuming it is a quote
No. I’m the no more bubbles killer. Just haven’t made the news yet.
Yeah I know, I understand and that's pretty funny seeds, Thanks for your acknowledgement! cheers
seeds wrote:sypkan wrote:now you've got me worried where you got that...
assuming it is a quote
No. I’m the no more bubbles killer. Just haven’t made the news yet.
I was referring to michael adam post
No problems
I can’t believe that people would want to punish FNP by voting no to stick it up the government, unfuckingbelievable. ! 
Supafreak wrote:sypkan wrote:totally michael adam!
the 'left' own that shit...
but they have totally not owned it!
they try to steam roll on like nothing ever happened... but the damage runs deep...
if they didn't play the cries of 'misinformation' game so hard, they might have pulled it off...
but they did... all over again... hard!
You have got to be fucking kidding me , it was scomo that shut the border and locked out australians from getting home , the federal government was In charge of aged care , you blame this current federal government for what happened during covid , fark me sypkan what is going on with you ?
no not at all supa
but actually, aside from aged care, what morrison did at the start of the pandemic was actually reasonable
...with what we knew at the time... and the nasty strain that hit italy...
my point is, as new information came to the fore, and we understood the virus better.... it was the right of politics that challenged 'the narrative'...
and 'the left' hung onto a broken narrative for way too long... about 2 years too long!!
some of em are still there now!
dan andrews, mcgowan, federal labor, the whole demorat's apparatus in the US...
be it about vaccines, their efficacy, the man made aspect, the lab, china generally, the 'cookers', ivermectin, the stats, the death count, how it was counted, the whole shit show...
all 'conspiracy theory' and 'misinformation'...
apparently...
you can throw russia, russia, russia, mk 1, 11, and 111, kompramat, pee tapes, russian bank debt, the twitter files, the laptop, biden corruption, the fbi, ... and a whole heap of other shit in there too...
the record ain't pretty
Ok so let’s punish FNP for what happened during covid, sounds fair and reasonable. I’m out.
Yeah I know Supa. Isn’t it sad. Confused I guess. Reality is last place. They walk amongst us.
Supafreak wrote:Ok so let’s punish FNP for what happened during covid, sounds fair and reasonable. I’m out.
that's not what Im saying at all...
(or michael adam... I think...)
just that, that's where the trust was burnt
and full loopyness set in
at all angles
including within the indigenous community
the WEF, WHO, and just about everything associated with 'the left' through covid did not conduct themselves well...
that's being kind
too kind!
breathe deep Supa. VJ is right, and you have made it all very clear, via balanced reasoning, for the many who have been listening, thank you.
(that cow thing? duuuude... hahah)
sypkan wrote:seeds wrote:sypkan wrote:now you've got me worried where you got that...
assuming it is a quote
No. I’m the no more bubbles killer. Just haven’t made the news yet.
I was referring to michael adam post
hahaha! Somethings got you worried Sypkan? Not sure what that last rant was about from you? The mistrust of our Govt’s is something that sits high on the radar, I am usually always scrutinising what they say, started with Johnny “I’ve just peed my pants” Howard with the barrage of misinformation and arrogant lies as they passed his thin lips. And it’s just gotten worse from then on. Have you noticed how the LNP leaders talk (more than one of them) and sometimes they’ll let it slip out, they talk like little Johnny who’s just peed in his pants, have you heard hahaha! A total turn off! Yes, of course it is of worthy concern that politicians are untrustworthy, how often do you hear of Politicians rorting the system. From State and Federal, Labor NSW, Libs NSW, Libs Qld, Libs Tas, that I can reflect on.
But this referendum is something for the FNP, look there’s a lot of money put forth to make this event succeed, Yes by the Gov’t, but it’s the right thing to do in so many ways. Cast aside all the other shit and treat this as it is! Do you support the right for Aboriginal First Nations People to have a voice enshrined in the constitution? (Something to that effect) Simple question, you’re a smart guy Sypkan and possibly a bit enraged about something, I don’t know what! But this really matters to the FNP, it really matters! I know it does in so many ways!
people of all colours, shades and persuasions do not trust anything anymore
we are literally in a post truth world...
and the establishment left think they are actually pulling this shit off
and the sole arbiters of truth
when really, people just don't want to vote the miserable fucks on the other side...
despite some pretty gross and gross indiscretions
and that's where lara tingle is right
dutton ain't got a hope in hell
despite his grubby little efforts
he's just as fukn delusional
it's not about me
it's about the electorate
the zietghiest
is it?
It’s really not that important Syp. You’re sounding as nutty as GSscomo. We be just a bunch of idiots on the third rock. Greet the first rays of the day and enjoy the simple things. I look forward to your first post on the Botany thread!
This shit is getting even weirder and we still have tomorrow to go.
People now want to hold my head under water.
Ideas people are voting No because of Covid or against the government.
And strange ideas that people are voting No to somehow punish FNP.
I will say one thing though, I do think there has been a push back against, big business, sporting bodies, celebrities, musician's, or anyone with a big profile, jumping on the Yes vote and telling us how to vote often in a preachy guilt trip way and then add to that the barrage of TV advertising and other advertising shoved down our throats.
Probably just reinforced soft No's to hard No's though and many undecided to No's .
Don’t flatter yourself Indo. Drawn and quartered, maybe.
"I will say one thing though, I do think there has been a push back against, big business, sporting bodies, celebrities, musician's, or anyone with a big profile, jumping on the Yes vote and telling us how to vote often in a preachy guilt trip way and then add to that the barrage of TV advertising and other advertising shoved down our throats."
The only push back against famous people saying publicly that they are voting yes is from concrete no voters that were never going to change their mind anyway.
its about trust, plain and simple...
people do not trust the government, big business, ...and the 'captured democracy' that our lobby group driven politics has become...
if you guys cannot see that, I cannot help you
covid and big pharma were the last nail in the coffin, not the beginning...
it may be inconvenient in this eleventh hour, but that's all Im saying
albo and co. rattle on about 'misinformation' ...whilst indulging in it themselves... and being caught out for it... by the abc no less!
using these oh so tired cries of conspiracy theory and misinformation does not win arguments...
it just drags up all the recent history
it isolates, bunkers down, and just shows your an aloof thoughtless twat
albo does twat particularly well...
it's an absolute losing strategy in the current context
labor and yes constantly defaulting to it lost the game
people take offence at being taken for fools... who would've thought?
lostdoggy wrote:"I will say one thing though, I do think there has been a push back against, big business, sporting bodies, celebrities, musician's, or anyone with a big profile, jumping on the Yes vote and telling us how to vote often in a preachy guilt trip way and then add to that the barrage of TV advertising and other advertising shoved down our throats."
The only push back against famous people saying publicly that they are voting yes is from concrete no voters that were never going to change their mind anyway.
A celebrity saying they are voting Yes is unlikely to turn people off, but a celebrity telling others how to vote i think for many Aussie is a turn off, in the USA it might work but in Australia we have a different culture we dont like that approach.
We are more likely to go fuck you, who you are you tell me how to vote, its same with business and sporting bodies, the AFL were smart they wised up to this and kept the grand final free from it all.
indo-dreaming wrote:This shit is getting even weirder and we still have tomorrow to go.
no, @indo, it is not exciting, it is not a sportgame. people are calm and accepting, as befits something that is foregone now, whatever it is.
Daming article by Savva... que rants of leftest propaganda.
Niki Savva:
"When Peter Dutton ran for the Liberal leadership in 2018, he twice asked Ken Wyatt to vote for him. Dutton told Wyatt he wanted him on his frontbench. Wyatt told Dutton both times that he would not vote for him. Furthermore, he told him that if he became leader, he would not serve under him, he would quit the ministry.
Beyond expressing concern for the sexual abuse of children, Dutton showed little interest in Indigenous issues, according to Wyatt.
When we spoke a few days ago, Wyatt was as unsurprised as he was unimpressed by Dutton’s conduct of the No campaign in the referendum.
Wyatt dismissed the fevered commentary about Jacinta Nampijinpa Price becoming prime minister. He reckons for a leader to succeed, she – or he – must be capable of, and be seen to be working for, all Australians. He believes neither Dutton nor Price has shown they can do that.
Going down in history as two of the people most responsible for destroying a referendum which Wyatt is convinced would help Indigenous people is no qualification for national leadership in Wyatt’s view.
Born on a mission station to a mother who was forced to hand over her wages to bureaucrats then ask for money back to buy essentials, Wyatt was the first Indigenous person to become Indigenous affairs minister under Scott Morrison. He quit the Liberal Party in protest in April.
Clinging to hope that Yes would triumph, Wyatt worried defeat would deter future governments from considering new approaches. He accepts Anthony Albanese would have no mandate to legislate a Voice but pledged he and fellow Yes warriors would not give up fighting for better ways to address Indigenous disadvantage.
In the post-mortems which will inevitably continue for decades, we can and we will blame No campaigners for playing filthy dirty, for putting politics above everything else, for using loudhailers to whistle up the neo-Nazis, racists and bigots with lies and misrepresentations.
The demons unleashed by tactics to foment conflict, for short term political gain at the expense of vulnerable Australians, will live on long after Saturday’s vote.
We can and will blame the Albanese government for choosing the wrong time or the wrong words or for mismanaging the campaign, for doing it now, or even for doing it at all.
The miserable fact is that no matter the wording, the content, or the timing, we were always destined to get to this point. A few Yes campaigners, including Wyatt, firmly believe this.
There was never going to be bipartisanship. Releasing exposure draft legislation would only have given the Noes more ammunition. Legislating the Voice alone would have once again been whitefellas telling blackfellas what was best for them. Delaying the referendum until the next election would have guaranteed the loss of both the election and the referendum.
Yes advocates say the Noes tapped into a deep well of racism, others that the referendum has created a hell of a mess.
The Noes blame Yes for dividing Australia, which is a bit like claiming black is white. They claim it’s the biggest change to the Constitution ever proposed. Wrong. That was the republic. Their most potent argument against that was if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Those same people, notably Tony Abbott, know this system is broken, offer no solution and instead seek to destroy the Voice by claiming it will encourage “separatism.”
As if such a modest change to set up an advisory body creates a new apartheid. Confronted by tough questioning, they scream bias. In fact, they have had a good run. Too good.
As the most prominent, the most effective and most polarising participant in the black-on-black conflict, Price has called the shots for the Coalition. She says up front what many of them think but few dare to say. The photo of Price acting as barista in a Perth cafe with Dutton smiling awkwardly behind her like a mobile coffee caddy, says it all.
Not only has she has given white folk an excuse to vote no, she has absolved them of any guilt or shame for past wrongs by insisting colonisation had benefited Aboriginal people. Read David Marr’s excellent book Killing for Country and judge for yourself.
Another of the many low points of this campaign was when the media and others perversely condemned Indigenous leader Marcia Langton for calling out racism, rather than condemn the racism itself. We live in dangerous times when Ray Martin cops more abuse from the Noes for using words like dinosaurs and dickheads than does a neo-Nazi who threatens to kill a senator.
Dutton questioning the integrity of an institution as highly regarded as the Australian Electoral Commission was inexcusable. It opened the door wide for conspiracy theorists to harass and abuse the commission and its staff.
This is a defining moment for Australia. Almost every other country on earth has reached an accommodation with its original inhabitants. We should at least be honest enough to admit that if we don’t, this debate will have simply exposed what lurks just beneath the surface. Blaming Albanese for that is bizarre. Ultimately, responsibility for the result and everything which delivers it resides with us.
The central issue, as it was on the republic, is not what the world thinks of us, as important as that is. It is what we think of each other.
Come Sunday, we will either see ourselves as measured, generous people, ready to set aside the daily woes of our lives – only for a few minutes – to consider the place and state of Indigenous Australians, prepared to say yes to something which will cost us nothing, but could measurably improve their lives.
Or as a frightened, resentful people unable or unwilling to see through the scares and the lies, prepared to use the ballot box to punish the government and in the process punish Indigenous people trapped in cycles of poverty and abuse."
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28