The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
^ soopoib.
@stu concludes with
“ .. The crux of it is not, how are we to view colonisation, but how are we to move forward from it? There's no one simple solution, they're all fucking hard, and they're really fucking hard to think about considering the weight of the topic.“
True very true BUT the first step in moving on must be respectful truth telling including a sincere and honest acknowledgement of what actually happened , not sugar coated in weasel words about possible positives.
It’s interesting you note the French, while no colonial power was innocent in such things, there is documented journal entries of the French naval commanders alarm at how the British on the first fleet were treating the local aborigines
GuySmiley wrote:@stu concludes with
“ .. The crux of it is not, how are we to view colonisation, but how are we to move forward from it? There's no one simple solution, they're all fucking hard, and they're really fucking hard to think about considering the weight of the topic.“
True very true BUT the first step in moving on must be respectful truth telling including a sincere and honest acknowledgement of what actually happened , not sugar coated in weasel words about possible positives.
It’s interesting you note the French, while no colonial power was innocent in such things, there is documented journal entries of the French naval commanders alarm at how the British on the first fleet were treating the local aborigines
The Dutch in Indo weren't too great either, but probably did not see much commercial opportunities in the south land.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Havelaar
Spanish not real nice in South America etc etc.
Out of all scenarios, British may have been the least horrific for FNP's. Unknowable.
Trying to stay out of the sledging on here, but still voting Yes as cannot change the past, but can hope for a better future which I believe/ hope the Voice may be able to offer.
As i've said earlier on here, FNP are far more represented in 2023 than when i was in school.
in the foyer of my kids school its 95% dedicated to FN students. The walls are celebrating FN students and photos and stories of their country.
The school also has indigenous senior leaders and flys 3 flags. Aborigional, Australian and TSI in several parts of the school.
For the old cookers here to believe that nothing has changed in the past 10, 15 or 20 years is just wrong.
The next generation are going to have so much more compassion and understanding than what we ever did.
The fear people on here spread about it being the last chance for FNP is just uneducated and wrong.
burleigh wrote:As i've said earlier on here, FNP are far more represented in 2023 than when i was in school.
in the foyer of my kids school its 95% dedicated to FN students. The walls are celebrating FN students and photos and stories of their country.
The school also has indigenous senior leaders and flys 3 flags. Aborigional, Australian and TSI in several parts of the school.
For the old cookers here to believe that nothing has changed in the past 10, 15 or 20 years is just wrong.
The next generation are going to have so much more compassion and understanding than what we ever did.
The fear people on here spread about it being the last chance for FNP is just uneducated and wrong.
Is anyone saying things haven't changed in the last 20 years? Also, fella, it's pretty funny how you're trying to call others cookers. We know the meaning, and it's you. Keep using "gritters", an unapt word that you made up. It suits your style.
burleigh wrote:As i've said earlier on here, FNP are far more represented in 2023 than when i was in school.
in the foyer of my kids school its 95% dedicated to FN students. The walls are celebrating FN students and photos and stories of their country.
The school also has indigenous senior leaders and flys 3 flags. Aborigional, Australian and TSI in several parts of the school.
For the old cookers here to believe that nothing has changed in the past 10, 15 or 20 years is just wrong.
The next generation are going to have so much more compassion and understanding than what we ever did.
The fear people on here spread about it being the last chance for FNP is just uneducated and wrong.
As I've said in a previous comment, we're in good hands with the majority of the 'youth'. Schools aren't brainwashing kids, they're providing knowledge and critical thinking skills. Yep, you'll see all of what Burleigh has mentioned and more in schools because they're essentially at the vanguard of change. Not perfect but a step in the right direction. It is more than there was 20 years ago and it will make it's way into society as a measure of respect to the Indigenous people, their descendants and representative of a modern, sophisticated society.
schools are indeed brainwashing kids with a significantly biased anti-west, anti-colonialism, anti-centre-right, anti-conservative, pro-left-progressive, pro-minority, pro-woke themes, and there is currently significant backlash to it.
It's no mystery why even the non-uni educated youth today are turning to the left of politics:
Is our past being misrepresented in our schools, cultural institutions and broader society? Is it correct to present the history of the West as one of only shame, apology and reparations? Robert Tombs, Professor Emeritus, French History, Cambridge University, UK
Is a "woke" assault undermining the history of the West?
People would do well to recall our history, values and heritage which are being eroded by the progressive left:
For anyone interested in learning just how brutal the first days of our country were you could read this information dense book by Robert Hughes. Uneasy reading based on first hand accounts/records.
""
gsco wrote:
schools are indeed brainwashing kids with a significantly biased anti-west, anti-colonialism, anti-centre-right, anti-conservative, pro-left-progressive, pro-minority, pro-woke themes, and there is currently significant backlash to it.""Absolute nonsense!
haha, you're a classic gsco. Kids aren't ashamed, they are just learning that history is complex, and that falling into some linear, jingoistic, narrative is archaic.
gsco wrote:schools are indeed brainwashing kids with a significantly biased anti-west, anti-colonialism, anti-centre-right, anti-conservative, pro-left-progressive, pro-minority, pro-woke themes, and there is currently significant backlash to it.
It's no mystery why even the non-uni educated youth today are turning to the left of politics:
Is our past being misrepresented in our schools, cultural institutions and broader society? Is it correct to present the history of the West as one of only shame, apology and reparations? Robert Tombs, Professor Emeritus, French History, Cambridge University, UK
Is a "woke" assault undermining the history of the West?
People would do well to recall our history, values and heritage which are being eroded by the progressive left:
Both sides are being presented now, whereas previously it was all one-sided with little regard given to the 'other' side. Kids aren't being brainwashed, they are just given a more complete story.
I agree that there is no mystery as to why, as you say, even the non-uni educated are turning to the left. They see that there is a better, more co-operative way with everyone pulling together, not apart and recognising where corrections to how things have previously been done can be made.
gsco wrote:schools are indeed brainwashing kids with a significantly biased anti-west, anti-colonialism, anti-centre-right, anti-conservative, pro-left-progressive, pro-minority, pro-woke themes, and there is currently significant backlash to it.
It's no mystery why even the non-uni educated youth today are turning to the left of politics:
Is our past being misrepresented in our schools, cultural institutions and broader society? Is it correct to present the history of the West as one of only shame, apology and reparations? Robert Tombs, Professor Emeritus, French History, Cambridge University, UK
Is a "woke" assault undermining the history of the West?
People would do well to recall our history, values and heritage which are being eroded by the progressive left:
Without even seeing it as a left vs right thing, it is honestly a real concern and real sad that so many people today in particular young people from western countries dont appreciate what they have and aren't proud of their countries or people, yeah sure there are issues nothing or no country is ever perfect but the positives far outweigh the negatives, and the west generally are peaceful developed democratic multicultural countries.
Without the history being what it is, most of us wouldn't even be born let alone living in such a great country.
andy-mac there's even whole new schools (even in Australia) being set up by concerned parents in backlash to the woke left progressive bias in schools
seems that you're not paying attention
And basesix & owgoodaquads, it’s outright biased, not neutral or balanced
I do believe that schools are used to turn our children into little machines. And I’m 100% open to alternate teaching methods. Everyone should be.
School isn’t for everyone, some flourish, some don’t. You can’t fit a square into a circle.
My comments on school was about FNP being celebrated and the changes from when I was is school are dramatic and great.
The doom and gloom from the cookers (hey hiccup) is wrong and very deceiving.
gsco wrote:andy-mac there's even whole new schools (even in Australia) being set up by concerned parents in backlash to the woke left progressive bias in schools
seems that you're not paying attention
And basesix & owgoodaquads, it’s outright biased, not neutral or balanced
I work in secondary education, and your comment is ridiculous.
Sorry.
Have a look at the curriculum, where is wokeness and leftism being taught? Here's a clue, it's not.
Ok assemblies that happen a couple of times a term may have welcome to country, but that is as radical as it gets. At our school it is done by local indigenous students. Always followed by National Anthem.
burleigh wrote:I do believe that schools are used to turn our children into little machines. And I’m 100% open to alternate teaching methods. Everyone should be.
School isn’t for everyone, some flourish, some don’t. You can’t fit a square into a circle.
My comments on school was about FNP being celebrated and the changes from when I was is school are dramatic and great.
The doom and gloom from the cookers (hey hiccup) is wrong and very deceiving.
I agree school definitely not suited for all students.
Could be done better, I like idea of more Montessori style teaching, but would not be possible due to cost to tax payers etc in public system. It's struggling enough as is....
andy-mac wrote:gsco wrote:andy-mac there's even whole new schools (even in Australia) being set up by concerned parents in backlash to the woke left progressive bias in schools
seems that you're not paying attention
And basesix & owgoodaquads, it’s outright biased, not neutral or balanced
I work in secondary education, and your comment is ridiculous.
Sorry.
Have a look at the curriculum, where is wokeness and leftism being taught? Here's a clue, it's not.
Ok assemblies that happen a couple of times a term may have welcome to country, but that is as radical as it gets. At our school it is done by local indigenous students. Always followed by National Anthem.
your political bias in these forums stands out like dog's balls, probably more than anyone else.
Of course you're going to defend it.
SIL is teacher and has relayed stories of the primary kids in tears when taught according to her curriculum, she reckons it's traumatic and so cruel. By all means teach it (and teach the positive history of the new settlement, too - be balanced; my kids got next to nothing of this), but do so at an age when the kids have more experience of education, themselves and the society.
This one sounds very different to what you are teaching andy mac. Who am I to believe?
I think Sovereign Hill would be the most visited school excursion site in Vic? Even a full-time Gov't paid olde-time schoolmaster puttin' on a show in the schoolhouse! Heaps of fun. Lotsa regional kids go there for camps. Canberra camps, too, for grade 6's would be right up there, all the schools considered 'good' do it.. way above the kids' understanding sometimes, but invaluable background into their country and its institutions for looking back on. And half the year leading up to that stuff is learning about it. Flagstaff Hill in Warrnambool is popular too, down my way.
velocityjohnno wrote:SIL is teacher and has relayed stories of the primary kids in tears when taught according to her curriculum, she reckons it's traumatic and so cruel. By all means teach it (and teach the positive history of the new settlement, too - be balanced; my kids got next to nothing of this), but do so at an age when the kids have more experience of education, themselves and the society.
This one sounds very different to what you are teaching andy mac. Who am I to believe?
I'm in secondary...
So cannot comment on primary specifically.
Here is Qld version of national curriculum years prep to 10...
https://www.qcaa.qld.edu.au/p-10/aciq/version-9/learning-areas
gsco wrote:andy-mac wrote:gsco wrote:andy-mac there's even whole new schools (even in Australia) being set up by concerned parents in backlash to the woke left progressive bias in schools
seems that you're not paying attention
And basesix & owgoodaquads, it’s outright biased, not neutral or balanced
I work in secondary education, and your comment is ridiculous.
Sorry.
Have a look at the curriculum, where is wokeness and leftism being taught? Here's a clue, it's not.
Ok assemblies that happen a couple of times a term may have welcome to country, but that is as radical as it gets. At our school it is done by local indigenous students. Always followed by National Anthem.your political bias in these forums stands out like dog's balls, probably more than anyone else.
Of course you're going to defend it.
That's a big call!!!
Btw, I did many other things before getting into teaching including many years in hospitality and having a business in Indo for quite a number of years.
So don't hit me up with only ever been a teacher. Didn't start until hit my 40's.
Had a quick squizz of social sciences and humanities looking for history
https://v9.australiancurriculum.edu.au/teacher-resources/understand-this...
the cross curriculum priorities were interesting: First Nations, engagement with Asia, sustainability. Nothing on our Western heritage?
It seems some parents and some teachers have some concern about what is being taught. The best way to allay this would be to provide a course summary to the parents at the start of each term I'd think - then they would know exactly what is being taught. Comments and questions could be encouraged. (I know this would add workload though).
BSCM
Whaahaa this clown going on about political bias. That’s all you crap on about in an extreme manner no matter what the thread there’s always a ridiculous ascertain that’s it’s the socialist lefts fault and we’re all gunna be commies soon
velocityjohnno wrote:Had a quick squizz of social sciences and humanities looking for history
https://v9.australiancurriculum.edu.au/teacher-resources/understand-this...
the cross curriculum priorities were interesting: First Nations, engagement with Asia, sustainability. Nothing on our Western heritage?
It seems some parents and some teachers have some concern about what is being taught. The best way to allay this would be to provide a course summary to the parents at the start of each term I'd think - then they would know exactly what is being taught. Comments and questions could be encouraged. (I know this would add workload though).
Hi VJ,
I'm not familiar with social sciences as don't teach it. From what I have seen they cover everything from black plague, WW2, ANZAC etc etc.
Think you will find Western Heritage still more covered in Civics...
I know there is a lot to cover in a very busy curriculum across the board.
https://v9.australiancurriculum.edu.au/teacher-resources/understand-this...
What are you talking about VJ?
If GSCO has taught us nothing it's that university is full of Marxists.
Born in Germany, died in London, was Marx not of the west?
thanks for that link andy-mac.
When I clicked around on it I came to a document humanities-and-social-sciences-history-curriculum-content-7-10-v9.pages on the years 7 to 10 history and social sciences curriculum.
It's easy to pick out significant bias in the treatment of topics even just from this document that gives only descriptions of topics.
For instance, and sticking to the topic of FNPs, in this year 9 section on Australia between 1750 to 1914:
this is block of topics on FNPs:
wrt to FNPs and colonialism, it presents only the absolutely very worst aspects of what happened in the period and nothing else, like the British settlers were simply murderers.
This is badly biased and no wonder the youth of today are strongly in favour of The Voice.
School curriculum; an integral part of the cultural wars since Howard
If only kids were as engaged with what happens inside the classroom as you seem to think they are, gsco, amaaaaazing how in touch you are, and how relevant your views, haha.
basesix wrote:If only kids were as engaged with what happens inside the classroom as you seem to think they are, gsco, amaaaaazing how in touch you are, and how relevant your views, haha.
Think 90% of kids in years 7-10 are not paying attention to anything the teacher says!
The other 10% are actively disrupting the class and goofing off.
It's a wonder they remember anything!! Haha...
a-m, you should check the scene in SA, since we realeased 7s into the high-schools! shit-doesn't-stink on tap, and student-ageism tribal warfare ; )
gsco wrote:thanks for that link andy-mac.
When I clicked around on it I came to a document humanities-and-social-sciences-history-curriculum-content-7-10-v9.pages on the years 7 to 10 history and social sciences curriculum.
It's easy to pick out significant bias in the treatment of topics even just from this document that gives only descriptions of topics.
For instance, and sticking to the topic of FNPs, in this year 9 section on Australia between 1750 to 1914:
this is block of topics on FNPs:
wrt to FNPs and colonialism, it presents only the absolutely very worst aspects of what happened in the period and nothing else, like the British settlers were simply murderers.
This is badly biased and no wonder the youth of today are strongly in favour of The Voice.
I don't teach this subject area, but from what you have posted it is all true historically is it not?
See link I posted for VJ re Civics...
Think that area explores the importance of our secular democracy etc.
basesix wrote:a-m, you should check the scene in SA, since we realeased 7s into the high-schools! shit-doesn't-stink on tap, and student-ageism tribal warfare ; )
Yep :)
It seems the dot points above almost wholly concern damage to First Nations Australians; there is one on economic growth and prosperity (with ecosystem tradeoffs so that wasn't all good either). Is this a balanced view of the entire development and history of the nation now called Australia, home to many peoples?
What's a cooker?
andy-mac wrote:I don't teach this subject area, but from what you have posted it is all true historically is it not?
See link I posted for VJ re Civics...
Think that area explores the importance of our secular democracy etc.
That's not the point.
The point is the coverage of topics is highly selective and displays severe negative, anti-colonialism bias. It paints the picture that wrt FNPs, the early settlers were basically just murderers and nothing else, which is simply not true.
The selection of topics is simplistic, blatantly selective and unbalanced, black and white, one-dimensional, not nuanced, badly biased, and ignores the full variety and complexity of interactions and events that occurred between the early settlers and FNPs over that period - good and bad, positive and negative, well intentioned and ill intentioned, etc, by both the early settlers and FNPs.
It's not acceptable even if you think that students are not listening.
Reckon the fifth dot point down quashes your argument. TBH it all just makes you appear like a hysterical crank.
Could possibly continue, but fuck...really?
gsco, I think that is because the bulk of what is taught, is what has always been taught in years passed, as teachers are wont to do.
I think you should spout repressive religious dogma, gsco. It is that we cant pull our women into line (as you well know) that is leaking our free-standing western fluid columns from us.
"Australia’s teaching workforce continued to be predominantly female, with women making up 71.9% of FTE teachers in 2022. The gender difference was more pronounced at the primary level (82.0% female) than at secondary level (61.4% female)."
"representation of female primary school principals has increased from 33.8% in 1998 to 66.4% in 2018. Female secondary school principals have similarly increased from 22.0% in 1998 to 48.4% in 2018"
it's even worse in curriculum development, it's womenfolk-thinking that's doing it, dagnabit!
gsco wrote:andy-mac wrote:I don't teach this subject area, but from what you have posted it is all true historically is it not?
See link I posted for VJ re Civics...
Think that area explores the importance of our secular democracy etc.That's not the point.
The point is the coverage of topics is highly selective and displays severe negative, anti-colonialism bias. It paints the picture that wrt FNPs, the early settlers were basically just murderers and nothing else, which is simply not true.
The selection of topics is simplistic, blatantly selective and unbalanced, black and white, one-dimensional, not nuanced, badly biased, and ignores the full variety and complexity of interactions and events that occurred between the early settlers and FNPs over that period - good and bad, positive and negative, well intentioned and ill intentioned, etc, by both the early settlers and FNPs.
It's not acceptable even if you think that students are not listening.
Ok that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it.
However I will have to disagree with you.
gsco I agree with you. Done Anthropology at undergrad level, completed History degree, have been immersed in teaching, the lecturers, tutors and experienced their personal views - the way this is structured is a perfect align with those views.
There's a massive gap within education to provide different views and I think people would be receptive to this.
stunet wrote:Reckon the fifth dot point down quashes your argument. TBH it all just makes you appear like a hysterical crank.
Could possibly continue, but fuck...really?
I was going to mention that 5th point.
The dot points present the early settlers as only bad, destructive and murderous, and the FNPs as only positive and contributing.
That’s double biased.
The good and bad went both ways.
the thing with lower education is, it largely reflects the higher education thinking of the day... which is a very anti- colonisation perspetive atm... that's no secret, and hardly debateable...
the australian curriculum is now absolutely laden with 'aboriginal perspectives' and 'aboriginal technologies' themes, integrated throughout... so much so, I've had teachers say to me, that by time naidoc week or the indigenous unit comes around, the students are absolutely bored with it...
my point for saying this isn't to be disparaging, it is just to make the point that contemporary claims that aboriginal history and culture are not taught is simply false, a perspective stuck in 1990's arguments, ...with the ftown...
I think like anything, it also changes dramatically from school to school and their coresponding cultures
there clearly has been a pendulum swing back to a more patriotic perspective, where the national anthem etc. are now also celebrated, no doubt due to parental pressures, and a wider cultural pushback
but anyone can access the australian curriculum online, and judge for themselves if enough of aborignal history and perspectives are taught... or whether drama queens like lydia thorpe and the frown are correct... living within their very own little history war...
I think where gsco is correct, and what grates a lot of people, is that academia is pushing a very anti colonialist / post colonialist perspective that is very anti whitey and western, and fails to teach that western culture has contributed a lot to make us one of the richest countries in the world - if one accepts that most australians are actually doing very well relatively, ...despite being caught in the insidious trap that capitalism is portrayed to be that is...
and speaking of the trap... it is largely the spoils of western systems and education that has allowed us to make such wealth as a relatively young country in the current global system...
and that wealth and stability is what allows such a critical analysis to develope amongst the incredibly left bias academia class that dominate certain faculties
that wealth and stability also allows practically all australians to engage in this debate, and have the 'privelage' of an environmental and social consciense more widely...
it is pretty widely accepted that such an environmental and social coscience, in the modern context, is absolutely a middle class indulgance and 'privelage'
anyone who disagrees, just needs spend more time in the actual indo village on their next surf trip, rather than the bule bubble next door, that is imposing their values on the poor souls in said village...
and this is what is grating about the current thinking, curriculum, and general top down impositions... they totally overlook what it is that brought us to such a privelaged position...
which, like it or not, includes many many aboriginal people
granted, one could possibly argue not all...
possibly...
burleigh wrote:As i've said earlier on here, FNP are far more represented in 2023 than when i was in school.
in the foyer of my kids school its 95% dedicated to FN students. The walls are celebrating FN students and photos and stories of their country.
The school also has indigenous senior leaders and flys 3 flags. Aborigional, Australian and TSI in several parts of the school.
For the old cookers here to believe that nothing has changed in the past 10, 15 or 20 years is just wrong.
The next generation are going to have so much more compassion and understanding than what we ever did.
The fear people on here spread about it being the last chance for FNP is just uneducated and wrong.
HA! This has to be the most laughable claim of this thread. So a couple of posters on the wall, an aboriginal flag flying and what, a student representative, and this is what you're basing societal changes on?? Mate, we had posters on the wall when i was at school and there was a certain respect for indigenous culture then.
But no indigenous students. Think about that. Think about all that has been kept from this group of people since settlers arrived.
Still waiting for your thoughts on why Indigenous attendance rates at school are going backwards and how this ties in with your thoughts on how Indigenous lives are improving (posters and stories on the white wall aside).
Outside of your little bubble, you might find, Australia is a huge country and within it are many different communities of Indigenous folk, and ffs, they are the ones asking for help to make their lives better.
But nup, you just bleat on about how a mostly white school, in a mostly white urban area is supposedly a sign that everythings fine and Indigenous crew are doing just fine.
Do you realise this is you talking for them? Just like you said everyone else shouldn't do?
Hypocritical beyond belief.
gsco wrote:stunet wrote:Reckon the fifth dot point down quashes your argument. TBH it all just makes you appear like a hysterical crank.
Could possibly continue, but fuck...really?
I was going to mention that 5th point.
The dot points present the early settlers as only bad, destructive and murderous, and the FNPs as only positive and contributing.
That’s double biased.
The good and bad went both ways.
More ugly revisionist bullshit of the highest order. Any historical firsthand account will show that in the vast majority of cases the interaction between natives and settlers was catastrophic for FNP either by deliberate acts of violence or via the introduction of western food, alcohol and disease. E.G. John Batman celebrated founder of Melbourne or murderous land thief who was so full of syphilis his nose rotted and fell off before his death. Batman along with his fierce rival the murderous John Fawkner (another celebrated founding father of Melbourne) stole the land right around Port Phillip Bay and out onto the western plans against the expressed orders of the colony's governor based in Sydney.
As I said earlier any move forward starts with respectful and honest truth telling ...........
sypkan wrote:the thing with lower education is, it largely reflects the higher education thinking of the day... which is a very anti- colonisation perspetive atm... that's no secret, and hardly debateable...
the australian curriculum is now absolutely laden with 'aboriginal perspectives' and 'aboriginal technologies' themes, integrated throughout... so much so, I've had teachers say to me, that by time naidoc week or the indigenous unit comes around, the students are absolutely bored with it...
my point for saying this isn't to be disparaging, it is just to make the point that contemporary claims that aboriginal history and culture are not taught is simply false, a perspective stuck in 1990's arguments, ...with the ftown...
I think like anything, it also changes dramatically from school to school and their coresponding cultures
there clearly has been a pendulum swing back to a more patriotic perspective, where the national anthem etc. are now also celebrated, no doubt due to parental pressures, and a wider cultural pushback
but anyone can access the australian curriculum online, and judge for themselves if enough of aborignal history and perspectives are taught... or whether drama queens like lydia thorpe and the frown are correct... living within their very own little history war...
I think where gsco is correct, and what grates a lot of people, is that academia is pushing a very anti colonialist / post colonialist perspective that is very anti whitey and western, and fails to teach that western culture has contributed a lot to make us one of the richest countries in the world - if one accepts that most australians are actually doing very well relatively, ...despite being caught in the insidious trap that capitalism is portrayed to be that is...
and speaking of the trap... it is largely the spoils of western systems and education that has allowed us to make such wealth as a relatively young country in the current global system...
and that wealth and stability is what allows such a critical analysis to develope amongst the incredibly left bias academia class that dominate certain faculties
that wealth and stability also allows practically all australians to engage in this debate, and have the 'privelage' of an environmental and social consciense more widely...
it is pretty widely accepted that such an environmental and social coscience, in the modern context, is absolutely a middle class indulgance and 'privelage'
anyone who disagrees, just needs spend more time in the actual indo village on their next surf trip, rather than the bule bubble next door, that is imposing their values on the poor souls in said village...
and this is what is grating about the current thinking, curriculum, and general top down impositions... they totally overlook what it is that brought us to such a privelaged position...
which, like it or not, includes many many aboriginal people
granted, one could possibly argue not all...
possibly...
Hey Syp, i kinda agree with that first point.
I don't think teaching non Indigenous crew is the big issue.
I believe it's integrating a learning system FOR the indigenous crew that incorporates their own culture with a mix of western learning that is the key to improving education standards and thus creating a fairness and equality for all.
There have been trials of it, and very successful ones at that. I guess it's about getting the balance right, what do you drop from the Western curriculum to make space for the indigenous learnings? I guess algebra would be a good start!
Not sure if you've seen the doco 'Through My Blood it Runs" but it kinda touches on that. You can see the dramatic change in the attention and how much more invested in learning the indigenous kid is when he's learning from a place that's weighted more towards indigenous culture....not to mention how much happier he is.
I personally believe the biggest changes will happen in this area, using education as the tool to essentially raise living standards and social outcomes. Because at the moment, it seems that the current education system is driving kids away.
Cheers.
andy-mac wrote:gsco wrote:andy-mac there's even whole new schools (even in Australia) being set up by concerned parents in backlash to the woke left progressive bias in schools
seems that you're not paying attention
And basesix & owgoodaquads, it’s outright biased, not neutral or balanced
I work in secondary education, and your comment is ridiculous.
Sorry.
Have a look at the curriculum, where is wokeness and leftism being taught? Here's a clue, it's not.
Ok assemblies that happen a couple of times a term may have welcome to country, but that is as radical as it gets. At our school it is done by local indigenous students. Always followed by National Anthem.
Hmmm it's actually no surprise that you are a teacher Blindboy was a teacher too, IMHO it much more likely that teachers are left leaning, even if its not in the curriculum in most subjects your natural bias will come through.
My daughter is only in grade 4 and ive noticed her coming home and saying things the teacher has said that are very politically bias even to do with party politics.
gsco wrote:andy-mac wrote:I don't teach this subject area, but from what you have posted it is all true historically is it not?
See link I posted for VJ re Civics...
Think that area explores the importance of our secular democracy etc.That's not the point.
The point is the coverage of topics is highly selective and displays severe negative, anti-colonialism bias. It paints the picture that wrt FNPs, the early settlers were basically just murderers and nothing else, which is simply not true.
The selection of topics is simplistic, blatantly selective and unbalanced, black and white, one-dimensional, not nuanced, badly biased, and ignores the full variety and complexity of interactions and events that occurred between the early settlers and FNPs over that period - good and bad, positive and negative, well intentioned and ill intentioned, etc, by both the early settlers and FNPs.
It's not acceptable even if you think that students are not listening.
I wouldn't be surprised its like many things there is often an over correction.
sypkan wrote:the thing with lower education is, it largely reflects the higher education thinking of the day... which is a very anti- colonisation perspetive atm... that's no secret, and hardly debateable...
the australian curriculum is now absolutely laden with 'aboriginal perspectives' and 'aboriginal technologies' themes, integrated throughout... so much so, I've had teachers say to me, that by time naidoc week or the indigenous unit comes around, the students are absolutely bored with it...
my point for saying this isn't to be disparaging, it is just to make the point that contemporary claims that aboriginal history and culture are not taught is simply false, a perspective stuck in 1990's arguments, ...with the ftown...
I think like anything, it also changes dramatically from school to school and their coresponding cultures
there clearly has been a pendulum swing back to a more patriotic perspective, where the national anthem etc. are now also celebrated, no doubt due to parental pressures, and a wider cultural pushback
but anyone can access the australian curriculum online, and judge for themselves if enough of aborignal history and perspectives are taught... or whether drama queens like lydia thorpe and the frown are correct... living within their very own little history war...
I think where gsco is correct, and what grates a lot of people, is that academia is pushing a very anti colonialist / post colonialist perspective that is very anti whitey and western, and fails to teach that western culture has contributed a lot to make us one of the richest countries in the world - if one accepts that most australians are actually doing very well relatively, ...despite being caught in the insidious trap that capitalism is portrayed to be that is...
and speaking of the trap... it is largely the spoils of western systems and education that has allowed us to make such wealth as a relatively young country in the current global system...
and that wealth and stability is what allows such a critical analysis to develope amongst the incredibly left bias academia class that dominate certain faculties
that wealth and stability also allows practically all australians to engage in this debate, and have the 'privelage' of an environmental and social consciense more widely...
it is pretty widely accepted that such an environmental and social coscience, in the modern context, is absolutely a middle class indulgance and 'privelage'
anyone who disagrees, just needs spend more time in the actual indo village on their next surf trip, rather than the bule bubble next door, that is imposing their values on the poor souls in said village...
and this is what is grating about the current thinking, curriculum, and general top down impositions... they totally overlook what it is that brought us to such a privelaged position...
which, like it or not, includes many many aboriginal people
granted, one could possibly argue not all...
possibly...
Good post
My son got 'the colonialism of waste management' as part of a science degree.
@gsco:
“The dot points present the early settlers as only bad, destructive and murderous, and the FNPs as only positive and contributing.”
This is from the same website for year 9 and suggests a broader discussion than the example you have put up.
History 7-10, Year 9 | Knowledge and understanding - Making and transforming the Australian nation (1750–1914)
different experiences and perspectives of colonisers, settlers and First Nations Australians and the impact of these experiences on changes to Australian society's ideas, beliefs and values
evaluate how common and conflicting values within and across cultural and linguistic groups affect the presentation of cultural perspectives and world views
Australia spends less on Indigenous affairs than you think: study . Advocates for the Voice to parliament have rejected claims by leading No campaigners about the scale of spending on Indigenous affairs, as a new report shows about $6 billion is targeted to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians annually.
Opponents of the Voice, including former prime minister Tony Abbott and One Nation leader Pauline Hanson, have claimed the National Indigenous Australians Agency spends $30 billion a year on Indigenous programs. The claims have been widely shared on social media during the Voice debate.
But research by Melbourne’s Lowitja Institute, Australia’s national institute for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health research, shows that of the about $556.1 billion in total direct expenditure by the federal government, 6 per cent is spent on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.
Based on 2015-16 figures included in the Productivity Commission’s most recent Indigenous Expenditure Review, the total comes to $33.4 billion. But only 18 per cent, or $6 billion, goes to direct Indigenous spending.
The rest represents consumption of mainstream services by Indigenous people, including hospital care, public education, aged and disability services and administration of the justice system.
On expenditure per person, the report says about $44,800 is spent for each Indigenous person, about twice the rate for non-Indigenous people. The total reflects disadvantage, including a disease burden 2.3 times that of non-Indigenous people, and other factors including the remote nature of some Indigenous communities, where many services are significantly more expensive to deliver.
“The higher expenditure is intended to counteract the many barriers facing our peoples in the pursuit of wellbeing and a high quality of life,” the report said.
Aim is to correct perceptions
Federal spending on Indigenous-specific government functions has doubled over the past 15 years, the report says, but outcomes have not improved at a corresponding rate.
Only four of the 19 Closing the Gap targets are on track, as key metrics on the rate of incarceration for Indigenous adults and the over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in out-of-home care worsen. Co-ordination of grants and service delivery is estimated to make up about 7 to 12 per cent of funding allocated to public services and programs. Reducing waste and duplication could lower costs.
Lowitja Institute chairperson Selwyn Button said the proposed Indigenous advisory body would help design better policy and reduce waste in government expenditure.
The report is designed to correct perceptions that Indigenous spending is dramatically disproportionate, including in critical areas of health and education.
Birthing in Our Community a success
“There’s a lot of misinformation and lots of lies and untruths that have been told to us, so it’s important to make sure people have all the cards on the table and know exactly what these numbers are,” Mr Button said.
“Putting factual information out in the public, so people can understand what we’re talking about. When we’re talking about how much influence Aboriginal people have over the way that government spending dollars go to support them, it is a very small fraction.” He nominated the Birthing in Our Community program, established in Brisbane in 2013, as a successful policy model. The program provides culturally informed maternity care and infant health services for Indigenous families.
“When you look at those things, it shows that we’ve got examples where we are actually improving outcomes for people in local communities and actually creating cost savings for government.
“If we had a Voice, what we could do is scale up those things and replicate them across the country. Then we’re providing better advice to government about how to better spend the dollars that are sitting in their accounts.”
Former prime minister Julia Gillard campaigned for the Voice in London on Thursday morning (AEST), urging about 100 expat Australians to vote to progress the fight against Indigenous disadvantage. Find out the inside scoop about Accenture, Deloitte, EY, KPMG, PwC and McKinsey. Sign up to our weekly Professional Life newsletter.
Tom McIlroy is the Financial Review's political correspondent, reporting from the federal press gallery at Parliament House. Connect with Tom on Twitter. Email Tom at [email protected]. https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/australia-spends-less-on-indigenous...
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28