The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:@info says “ … BTW the 40 Billion figure is correct though, he just has it a little mixed up it's a complete government spending figure on indigenous people, not just a special targeted indigenous programs spending figure.
Whats more important is comparing government spending per person, indigenous to non indigenous, which the indigenous spending is a little more than double per person than non indigenous.“
I’ve seen previous similar comments from you and others here @info but I’m puzzled as to why you think that it’s relevant or an important point to make, care to explain why
Its relevant to todays comments because of Kamal's comments and the comments from the TV panel, both views of which are misleading.
Is it a surprise that people talk about the money side of things?
No not at all, it doesnt matter what issue you are talking about money almost always gets talked about especially tax payers money because its money people earn that they have no choice but to give to the government.
Money always get wasted by the government but this is an area where money wasted is a long term on going thing, a black hole that will always be there.
The problem now is there is a whole industry built around this money its called the Aboriginal industry, and its made up of a lot of grifters chasing the $$$.
What we really need is a full audit of the industry and a clean out and organisations made more accountable, IMHO money will never fix the issues, most issues need people to bring personal change themselves but it still wouldn't hurt ensuring money got to where its suppose to get too
BTW. The very fact you use to work in this industry but are obviously so clueless around Indigenous issues, to me is confirmation of how fucked up things are, i can only imagine that there is a hell of a lot of other Guys in this field.
Yeah yeah all well and good but why the comment about the money spent on Aboriginal people is double that of everyone else and especially so as you say it’s important to note?
Because it helps us create a better perspective on things and how much money is spent.
A complete figure of spending be it 400 million, 4 billion, 40 billion, 400 billion while hugely different amount's, to most us its hard to relate to what that figure really means its just big money
Its much easier for us to understand comparisons like comparing Indigenous spending to non indigenous spending, especially when given in figures we can relate too better.
For instance the figures per person from 2017 are roughly $20K non indigenous to $44K for indigenous.
We can understand these comparisons and figures much easier.
Right. To paraphrase @info's emphasis on money spent on FNP people from his comments today: its $40 billion pa, its double what is spent per person elsewhere, its an "industry" that is full of waste needing a full audit and there was also a strong inference of corruption linked to people like Noel Pearson.
Now for some perspective ............
ONE If it is $40 billion (highly questionable figure) that represents 2.33% of the $1,718 trillion (PPP 2023) size of the AU economy or 6.88% of projected government expenditure for 2022-23. (google sourced).
IN 2022-23 subsidies to the fossil fuel industry totalled $11.1.billion while the forward estimates see that increase from $55.3 billion to $57.1 billion.
TWO Australia and Australians, like most countries/people accept that tax receipts are used to equalise +/- inequities faced by people because of distance, employment, age, health, internet, etc etc ...... there would be literally 100s of examples to pick from including here in Australia the over representation of Country (NT) and National Party members (in both houses and at at State and Federal level) compared to more urban seats.
So whatever the spend figure is it reflects the higher costs of service delivery in rural and remote areas of Australia. To argue against the higher cost is to argue for the tacit removal of people off their homelands something the LNP haven't dared utter since Abbott was PM but would still be on their agenda under the disguise of the argument Price spins.
THREE Industry/corruption/waste where it exists should be weeded out but show me the hard evidence that it exists, show me the court case details and the prison terms!
AndyM wrote:Yeah I really hate those bastards rorting the system and living in luxury in their mansions with their swimming pools in Kalkaringi, Yarabah, Hope Vale etc.
there’s no reason whatsoever that they can’t all stand on their own 2 feet.
C'mon AndyM. Nobody is saying they are rorting the system,. But the money is lining someones pockets. where is it going? Find the money, find the real problem.
mm, important conversation.. (thank you for your service re tax dollars)
Geez, unless this is just another gaslighting no-voter energy-drain?
maybe nut it out with your proud work-colleague on your next indo trip?
took a break for lunch, abc news on tele 12ish, newsflash...albo in whyalla s.a. with premier spruiking hyrogen project blahblah, any questions? well eventually went to voice (of course it would) and his same old pitch and quoted the (i) (ii) and (iii) points on ballot paper and made a huge faux pas on (ii) quote albo..."the aborigine and torres strait islander voice SHALL blahblah" then stopped and corrected himself and started again and said MAY make representations to the parliament blahblah etc.
the words shall and must in legal terms is emphatic clear and defined, when should and may are used the proposed law is open to interpretation. now i think the pm made a mistake but he let the cat out the bag.
explainer...by useing "may" means the voice panel can censor any gripe from isoted communities which is contradictory to it's purpose.
allso in that (ii) it says "to the parliament and the executive government blahblah".
that is back to front? govt first then if gov agrees debated in parliament??
i may be pedant here or some may say anal retentive but this is more proof of what a botched reffo this is.
well, sameaswas, you've made a point, probably more for hiccups, and for Guy calling no-ees 'tricky'. Maybe just educate yourself, it'd be way more beneficial to you and those around you.
i voted labour to get rid of scomo et all, never heard of the voice until after election and even now there are fnp popping up all over saying never heard it.
recomend reading WAVEMANS post on institutionalised corruption on previous page
https://onevoice australia.com.au/blog/f/state-sanctioned-failure corruption.
to the ppl who are voteing yes cos everything else has failed i applaud your sincerety.
but you are locking in a corrupt system that will be unaccountable, secretive and controlled by nepotism and cronyism.
I find this to be pretty crazy:
From Kerrynne Liddle, Shadow Minister for Child Protection and the Prevention of Family Violence, Senator for South Australia, Indigenous Arrernte woman of the Central Desert
Kerrynne Liddle wrote:We’re bombarded with claims and now slick advertising that Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander peoples do not already have a voice. That is simply not true!
I’m one of 11 politicians in the Australian Parliament today. It’s a pretty impressive collection of voices.
There’s an Indigenous ambassador, there are indigenous advocates, commissioners and there’s the experts in the Coalition of Peaks - comprising more than 80 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled organisations representing some 800 organisations.
The Coalition of Peaks already speaks to the Parliamentary Cabinet, to Ministers and has no restriction on who they speak to, or what they speak on.
Indigenous Australians also have a voice through more than 3000 bodies that are funded more than $5.3 billion of Commonwealth Indigenous-specific expenditure to improve the lives of our most marginalised - particularly the nearly 140,000 thousand indigenous Australians living in remote or very remote areas.
The role of the National Indigenous Australians Agency that reports to the Minister for Indigenous Australians – an Indigenous woman herself, and whose sole purpose is delivery of Indigenous programs is overseeing the $4.3 Billion investment through its role of advising government on improving lives through consultation and engagement.
The Albanese Government’s own Budget Papers in October 2022 and May 2023 use language of codesign, collaboration – these are existing concepts, language and practice within processes of the parliament and in the executive government.
The evidence is everywhere that Indigenous Australians already have a voice.
And then from the Coalition of Peaks website:
Coalition of Peaks wrote:As community-controlled organisations, we work for and are accountable to our communities, not governments. We share a belief that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people should have a meaningful say on policies and programs that impact us through formal partnerships with all levels of Australian governments, because we know how to best advance our lives.
The National Agreement on Closing the Gap, which came into effect on 27 July 2020, sets out how governments and the Coalition of Peaks will work together to improve the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.
The Partnership Agreement was made between the then Council of Australian Governments (now National Cabinet) and the Coalition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peak Organisations (the Coalition of Peaks).
The Partnership Agreement means that, for the first time, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, through their community-controlled peak organisations and members, are sharing decisions with governments on Closing the Gap, under a formal arrangement.
The Partnership Agreement sets out how the Australian governments and the Coalition of Peaks work and share decisions together on the design, implementation, and monitoring of Closing the Gap strategies and policies.
The Partnership Agreement will be in place for ten years and includes a commitment to three yearly Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander-led reviews on Closing the Gap.
The Coalition of Peaks believes that shared decision-making between governments and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled representative organisations in the design, implementation, and monitoring of Closing the Gap is essential to improving the life outcomes of our people.
The Partnership Agreement is based on a shared belief of Australian governments and the Coalition of Peaks that:
- When Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are included and have a real say in the design and delivery of services that impact on us, the outcomes are far better.
- Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people need to be at the centre of Closing the Gap policy: the gap won’t close without our full involvement.
- Australian governments cannot expect our people to be in charge of our own lives or to work constructively with them if we are excluded from decision-making.
And then there's the National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA):
NIAA wrote:The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) vision is to ensure Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are heard, recognised and empowered.
We recognise each First Nations community is unique. We work in partnership with community to make sure policies, programs and services meet their unique needs.
We work to support the Minister for Indigenous Australians.
The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) works in genuine partnership to enable the self-determination and aspirations of First Nations communities. We lead and influence change across government to ensure Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have a say in the decisions that affect them.
The Executive Order gives the NIAA a number of functions, including:
- to lead and coordinate Commonwealth policy development, program design and implementation and service delivery for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
- to provide advice to the Prime Minister and the Minister for Indigenous Australians on whole-of-government priorities for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
- to lead and coordinate the development and implementation of Australia’s Closing the Gap targets in partnership with Indigenous Australians; and
to lead Commonwealth activities to promote reconciliation.
This whole The Voice charade is complete insanity.
gsco wrote:I find this to be pretty crazy:
From Kerrynne Liddle, Shadow Minister for Child Protection and the Prevention of Family Violence, Senator for South Australia, Indigenous Arrernte woman of the Central Desert
Kerrynne Liddle wrote:We’re bombarded with claims and now slick advertising that Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander peoples do not already have a voice. That is simply not true!
I’m one of 11 politicians in the Australian Parliament today. It’s a pretty impressive collection of voices.
There’s an Indigenous ambassador, there are indigenous advocates, commissioners and there’s the experts in the Coalition of Peaks - comprising more than 80 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled organisations representing some 800 organisations.
The Coalition of Peaks already speaks to the Parliamentary Cabinet, to Ministers and has no restriction on who they speak to, or what they speak on.
Indigenous Australians also have a voice through more than 3000 bodies that are funded more than $5.3 billion of Commonwealth Indigenous-specific expenditure to improve the lives of our most marginalised - particularly the nearly 140,000 thousand indigenous Australians living in remote or very remote areas.
The role of the National Indigenous Australians Agency that reports to the Minister for Indigenous Australians – an Indigenous woman herself, and whose sole purpose is delivery of Indigenous programs is overseeing the $4.3 Billion investment through its role of advising government on improving lives through consultation and engagement.
The Albanese Government’s own Budget Papers in October 2022 and May 2023 use language of codesign, collaboration – these are existing concepts, language and practice within processes of the parliament and in the executive government.
The evidence is everywhere that Indigenous Australians already have a voice.
And then from the Coalition of Peaks website:
Coalition of Peaks wrote:As community-controlled organisations, we work for and are accountable to our communities, not governments. We share a belief that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people should have a meaningful say on policies and programs that impact us through formal partnerships with all levels of Australian governments, because we know how to best advance our lives.
The National Agreement on Closing the Gap, which came into effect on 27 July 2020, sets out how governments and the Coalition of Peaks will work together to improve the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.
The Partnership Agreement was made between the then Council of Australian Governments (now National Cabinet) and the Coalition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peak Organisations (the Coalition of Peaks).
The Partnership Agreement means that, for the first time, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, through their community-controlled peak organisations and members, are sharing decisions with governments on Closing the Gap, under a formal arrangement.
The Partnership Agreement sets out how the Australian governments and the Coalition of Peaks work and share decisions together on the design, implementation, and monitoring of Closing the Gap strategies and policies.
The Partnership Agreement will be in place for ten years and includes a commitment to three yearly Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander-led reviews on Closing the Gap.
The Coalition of Peaks believes that shared decision-making between governments and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled representative organisations in the design, implementation, and monitoring of Closing the Gap is essential to improving the life outcomes of our people.
The Partnership Agreement is based on a shared belief of Australian governments and the Coalition of Peaks that:
- When Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are included and have a real say in the design and delivery of services that impact on us, the outcomes are far better.
- Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people need to be at the centre of Closing the Gap policy: the gap won’t close without our full involvement.
- Australian governments cannot expect our people to be in charge of our own lives or to work constructively with them if we are excluded from decision-making.And then there's the National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA):
NIAA wrote:The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) vision is to ensure Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are heard, recognised and empowered.
We recognise each First Nations community is unique. We work in partnership with community to make sure policies, programs and services meet their unique needs.
We work to support the Minister for Indigenous Australians.
The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) works in genuine partnership to enable the self-determination and aspirations of First Nations communities. We lead and influence change across government to ensure Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have a say in the decisions that affect them.
The Executive Order gives the NIAA a number of functions, including:
- to lead and coordinate Commonwealth policy development, program design and implementation and service delivery for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
- to provide advice to the Prime Minister and the Minister for Indigenous Australians on whole-of-government priorities for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
- to lead and coordinate the development and implementation of Australia’s Closing the Gap targets in partnership with Indigenous Australians; and
to lead Commonwealth activities to promote reconciliation.This whole The Voice charade is complete insanity.
thankyou gsco more facts to prove the total shonk of this voice caball of pearson, langton and the rest of them.
basesix wrote:well, sameaswas, you've made a point, probably more for hiccups, and for Guy calling no-ees 'tricky'. Maybe just educate yourself, it'd be way more beneficial to you and those around you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnRgWYp4fEE
video 2016? read gsco's above, everything to adress those sad stastistics has been implemented since.
Richard doesn't think so.
burleigh wrote:adam12 wrote:Indo " to things like wealth fare payments to Aboriginal targeted programs."
"Wealth fare payments"
Are you right in the head?
For a guy that projects himself as an "expert" on FNP issues, you are just a fucking dumb gronk.
Why don't you piss off and do something else for a while, stop making a fool of yourself from dawn till late at night here every day.Oh look another abusive yes voter. You're all the same and unfortunately doing more damage than good.
And yr not abusive? Whew
basesix wrote:you are uncomfortable waste, syp?
Tots, let's do something, start with Yes, and keeeep going!
I see what you did there
it's your little play on words schtik...
which I like, that no one seems to have picked up on...
but yeh, sometimes I do feel like 'uncomfortable waste'... but I'm not really, 8 times outa 10 I'm doing the work others refuse to do...
more what makes me uncomfortable is me not raising / unwilling to raise / scared to raise... the absolutely ridiculous waste of funds I would see constantly
obviously it doesn't bother some people, even people I work with, ...some people love feel good bullshit...
some people just don't ask questions...
some people just don't think...
some just are no good at maths...
and some... the most annoying of the lot... just think questions just shouldn't be asked...
anyone who has had even a peek into the waste, knows shit ain't right...
whistle blowers should be encouraged... but an opposite culture has developed... been forced upon...
when one sees the outright depravation of some... the outright indulgance of others... and the shameful mindless waste in between... it is hard to believe any change is imminent...
the stories I could go into...
the whole voice charade should be focussed on the have nots in the vid above from my perspective
not an urban elite that has developed
the discussions about $44k versus $22k are misguided too from my perspective
when the indig. figures are broken down to remote communties, we get a figure closer to $165k per person
everyone! - and especially aboriginal people!! - should be irrate about the 'return on investment' of such figures...
labor has done sweet fuck all to address such waste, they love to dole out the 'white guilt' cash more than anyone...
hard to see how any of that will change
"...ection and even now there are fnp popping up all over saying never heard it..."
fucken hard to believe
but it is true...
after such an 'extensive consultation' period
and an apparent 'abundance of detail'
mind is blown...
labor is hopeless...
lying...
or stupid...
I think that sounds thoughtful. Let's look into it all, after we have voted yes, and get them, with our help, to blow them whistles! Aboriginal people ARE irate about the waste.
GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:@info says “ … BTW the 40 Billion figure is correct though, he just has it a little mixed up it's a complete government spending figure on indigenous people, not just a special targeted indigenous programs spending figure.
Whats more important is comparing government spending per person, indigenous to non indigenous, which the indigenous spending is a little more than double per person than non indigenous.“
I’ve seen previous similar comments from you and others here @info but I’m puzzled as to why you think that it’s relevant or an important point to make, care to explain why
Its relevant to todays comments because of Kamal's comments and the comments from the TV panel, both views of which are misleading.
Is it a surprise that people talk about the money side of things?
No not at all, it doesnt matter what issue you are talking about money almost always gets talked about especially tax payers money because its money people earn that they have no choice but to give to the government.
Money always get wasted by the government but this is an area where money wasted is a long term on going thing, a black hole that will always be there.
The problem now is there is a whole industry built around this money its called the Aboriginal industry, and its made up of a lot of grifters chasing the $$$.
What we really need is a full audit of the industry and a clean out and organisations made more accountable, IMHO money will never fix the issues, most issues need people to bring personal change themselves but it still wouldn't hurt ensuring money got to where its suppose to get too
BTW. The very fact you use to work in this industry but are obviously so clueless around Indigenous issues, to me is confirmation of how fucked up things are, i can only imagine that there is a hell of a lot of other Guys in this field.
Yeah yeah all well and good but why the comment about the money spent on Aboriginal people is double that of everyone else and especially so as you say it’s important to note?
Because it helps us create a better perspective on things and how much money is spent.
A complete figure of spending be it 400 million, 4 billion, 40 billion, 400 billion while hugely different amount's, to most us its hard to relate to what that figure really means its just big money
Its much easier for us to understand comparisons like comparing Indigenous spending to non indigenous spending, especially when given in figures we can relate too better.
For instance the figures per person from 2017 are roughly $20K non indigenous to $44K for indigenous.
We can understand these comparisons and figures much easier.
Right. To paraphrase @info's emphasis on money spent on FNP people from his comments today: its $40 billion pa, its double what is spent per person elsewhere, its an "industry" that is full of waste needing a full audit and there was also a strong inference of corruption linked to people like Noel Pearson.
Now for some perspective ............
ONE If it is $40 billion (highly questionable figure) that represents 2.33% of the $1,718 trillion (PPP 2023) size of the AU economy or 6.88% of projected government expenditure for 2022-23. (google sourced).
IN 2022-23 subsidies to the fossil fuel industry totalled $11.1.billion while the forward estimates see that increase from $55.3 billion to $57.1 billion.
TWO Australia and Australians, like most countries/people accept that tax receipts are used to equalise +/- inequities faced by people because of distance, employment, age, health, internet, etc etc ...... there would be literally 100s of examples to pick from including here in Australia the over representation of Country (NT) and National Party members (in both houses and at at State and Federal level) compared to more urban seats.
So whatever the spend figure is it reflects the higher costs of service delivery in rural and remote areas of Australia. To argue against the higher cost is to argue for the tacit removal of people off their homelands something the LNP haven't dared utter since Abbott was PM but would still be on their agenda under the disguise of the argument Price spins.
THREE Industry/corruption/waste where it exists should be weeded out but show me the hard evidence that it exists, show me the court case details and the prison terms!
Really you are comparing fossil fuel subsidies with indigenous spending????
They are completely different things, they are basically polar opposites.
Indigenous spending is a never ending ongoing expense(especially in remote regions) that returns pretty much nothing thats why Abbott wanted to close down some remote communities to reduce cost, because the expense in those remote communities is high for the number of people that it helps, you get terrible bang for buck.
Subsidies for fossil fuels are there for a reason just like subsidies for renewables, its generally to encourage investment or a service thats needed, and in almost all cases to do with fossil fuel mining the money provided comes back many many times over and also provides jobs and has other flow on effects to the economy
And ironically the revenue provided by the industry in taxes and royalties etc also helps to pay for the indigenous expenses and mining is one of the very rare areas that often provides life changing jobs for indigenous people in remote regions.
One is more an ongoing expense, the other is really a type of investment.
Sad isn't it? One of the reasons Scotland didn't want brexit, was that the EU heavily subsidised people to live in the Outer Hebrides, cos ghost-islands are sad, and heritage is valued. They also pay the Swiss to have livestock on the mountains cos it looks nice. I value the interior of our country, and the people that live there, just as much.
basesix wrote:well, sameaswas, you've made a point, probably more for hiccups, and for Guy calling no-ees 'tricky'. Maybe just educate yourself, it'd be way more beneficial to you and those around you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnRgWYp4fEE
What a load of complete tripe.
Wasn’t comparing anything, you really are as sharp as a bowling ball aren’t you @info? To use your term I included the fossil fuel spend to add ‘perspective’.
Noting that you completely ignored my whole argument about smoothing out structural inequalities before launching into this mind wank ….
@info says “…. Indigenous spending is a never ending ongoing expense(especially in remote regions) that returns pretty much nothing thats why Abbott wanted to close down some remote communities to reduce cost, because the expense in those remote communities is high for the number of people that it helps, you get terrible bang for buck….”
So there you have it the real reason Dutton and the grifters Price and Mundine, along with their faceless elite backers, could never agree giving remote communities a Voice FFS, the Noalition want them moved on off country.
As I highlighted earlier the total spend on FNP, accepting @info’s rubbery figure, is just over 2.0% of the total size of the Australian economy FFS but apparently that is too much for the (c)unning (st)unts.
"...Let's look into it all, after we have voted yes, and get them..."
I would vote yes
if I thought it empowered the right people to get 'them'...
@Indo "Really you are comparing fossil fuel subsidies with indigenous spending????
They are completely different things, they are basically polar opposites.
Indigenous spending is a never ending ongoing expense(especially in remote regions) that returns pretty much nothing thats why Abbott wanted to close down some remote communities to reduce cost, because the expense in those remote communities is high for the number of people that it helps, you get terrible bang for buck.
Subsidies for fossil fuels are there for a reason just like subsidies for renewables, its generally to encourage investment or a service thats needed, and in almost all cases to do with fossil fuel mining the money provided comes back many many times over and also provides jobs and has other flow on effects to the economy
And ironically the revenue provided by the industry in taxes and royalties etc also helps to pay for the indigenous expenses and mining is one of the very rare areas that often provides life changing jobs for indigenous people in remote regions.
One is more an ongoing expense, the other is really a type of investment."
Does that Indigenous spending include "wealth fare" or welfare Indo?
You have zero credibility.
Just a moron.
Don't want to divide Australia... a nation with 3 flags
Derp
harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:adam12 wrote:Indo " to things like wealth fare payments to Aboriginal targeted programs."
"Wealth fare payments"
Are you right in the head?
For a guy that projects himself as an "expert" on FNP issues, you are just a fucking dumb gronk.
Why don't you piss off and do something else for a while, stop making a fool of yourself from dawn till late at night here every day.Oh look another abusive yes voter. You're all the same and unfortunately doing more damage than good.
And yr not abusive? Whew
No, nothing like you guys are doing to Indo. You peanuts are all the same. No wonder the country is divided.
The country’s been divided for 200 + years.
Then there’s a move to sort out differences and extend a helping hand to those who have been comprehensively fucked over and this gets called divisive.
Go figure eh?
AndyM wrote:The country’s been divided for 200 + years.
Then there’s a move to sort out differences and extend a helping hand to those who have been comprehensively fucked over and this gets called divisive.
Go figure eh?
Bingo! I’ve wanted to make this exact point in this thread for some time but know that it would've just fell on deaf ears with those with closed minds. Thanks AndyM.
basesix wrote:
Credit and acknowledgement to Richard Frankland on Culture, health and wellbeing. Please watch this short video graciously posted by Basesix.
Aboriginal people have different needs and values for they rely on the spiritual ancestral land values for their existence. They live in the minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. They rely on nature remaining intact, their connections and identities to animals, trees, plants that sustain the beauty and viability of life and living. They have their refined culture, which is so complex, that is respectful, courteous, humble, unpretentious and generous, and that generosity is extended to us as well, so eloquently.
I read in a previous post from ‘Indo’ that “Aboriginals are no different to us, they have the same needs and abilities and qualities and are not better or smarter than us.”
Aboriginals have each other and learn from each other, support from each other. They know how to treat ‘Mother Earth’ Our mother, in a proper thoughtful, empathetic and respectful way that is sustainable, that retains the un spoilt quality of air and water on this water planet. They’ve got it figured out in a far more intelligent way than we could ever imagine.
The aboriginal population is split into 250 different nations. They know how to negotiate respectfully between their respective nations/clans. They are experienced masters of negotiations in a respectful and balanced way due to their need to intermingle with neighbouring clans for learned knowledge, marriage, food sources etc., They’ve been doing this for.. well you know.. Uh, OMG! over 65 thousand years, just try to get a perspective of that time span, that’s really impressive hey! And they have been successful with their undertakings with it.
Except from Wikipedia:
“Many of these nations were in alliance with one another, and within each nation there existed separate, often related clans, from as few as 5 or 6 to as many as 30 or 40. Each nation had its own language, and a few nations had several languages.”
So, aboriginal people are masters of negotiations, MASTERS! And why not allow them to the table of negotiations? Let’s welcome them with open arms to the table of negotiations!
Okay, not ready yet? Well time is running out, we have.. What? 3 weeks to go now until 14th Oct. Better get serious about making that decision. This vote, I believe, has huge advantages for Australia to allow the FNP get a voice.
Be proud peoples, don’t go down that road of creating blockages, it’s not good for any body’s health, for progress, for prosperity. A freely running unimpeded stream effortlessly pushing, guiding the sand out beyond the estuaries that creates the nice little peelers is what we want! As surfers anyway! (couldn’t help myself there).
I intensely believe they’ll nail it. They’ll do it in a respectful, knowledgeable, trusting and sure fire way to direct a sound pathway that would be just too good to deny or refuse by any respectful and considerate governing body, now that’s another side to the story!
But I’m convinced voting yes for these very wise people is the best thing we can do for this country in the current climate, loose it and were all going down the gurgler even further! How far can we take the ruin to our Mother Earth? For Mother Earth is what we need to look after, we have nothing else.
Rabbits68 wrote:AndyM wrote:The country’s been divided for 200 + years.
Then there’s a move to sort out differences and extend a helping hand to those who have been comprehensively fucked over and this gets called divisive.
Go figure eh?Bingo! I’ve wanted to make this exact point in this thread for some time but know that it would've just fell on deaf ears with those with closed minds. Thanks AndyM.
This is another great example of the lies and fabrication of the socialist left/yes side in this whole charade.
The socialist left/yes side is peddling the disinformation that in The Voice Australia has only just now suddenly decided to start helping FNPs, to bridge the gap, to seek reconciliation, etc. That's completely ridiculous. No one with their eyes open could possibly fall for that.
Another lie by them is that only now with The Voice has Australia suddenly decided to start listening to FNPs, to allow them at the table of negotiations, and to set up a mechanism to provide advice and participate in decisions that affect them. That's another complete lie and scam that no one with half a brain could fall for.
These and many other lies and propaganda are comprehensively debunked by my longer post above and Kerrynne Liddle’s comments in the speech, which I repeat here:
Kerrynne Liddle wrote:We’re bombarded with claims and now slick advertising that Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander peoples do not already have a voice. That is simply not true!
I’m one of 11 politicians in the Australian Parliament today. It’s a pretty impressive collection of voices.
There’s an Indigenous ambassador, there are indigenous advocates, commissioners and there’s the experts in the Coalition of Peaks - comprising more than 80 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled organisations representing some 800 organisations.
The Coalition of Peaks already speaks to the Parliamentary Cabinet, to Ministers and has no restriction on who they speak to, or what they speak on.
Indigenous Australians also have a voice through more than 3000 bodies that are funded more than $5.3 billion of Commonwealth Indigenous-specific expenditure to improve the lives of our most marginalised - particularly the nearly 140,000 thousand indigenous Australians living in remote or very remote areas.
The role of the National Indigenous Australians Agency that reports to the Minister for Indigenous Australians – an Indigenous woman herself, and whose sole purpose is delivery of Indigenous programs is overseeing the $4.3 Billion investment through its role of advising government on improving lives through consultation and engagement.
The Albanese Government’s own Budget Papers in October 2022 and May 2023 use language of codesign, collaboration – these are existing concepts, language and practice within processes of the parliament and in the executive government.
The evidence is everywhere that Indigenous Australians already have a voice.
Also try reading the websites of National Indigenous Australians Agency and The Coalition of Peaks, as well as researching the last few decades of everything that has been done and that is continuing to be done to this day.
It seems to me that there's no "Truth Telling" being done by the socialist left/yes side at all. It's all an appeal to emotion and fabricated lies preying on people who don't look too deeply into any of it but instead just at the slogans and propaganda.
The Voice is another betrayal of all the Australian people (including of FNPs) by the ALP, just like its massive immigration intake locking more and more people out of the rental market and home ownership.
gsco wrote:Rabbits68 wrote:AndyM wrote:The country’s been divided for 200 + years.
Then there’s a move to sort out differences and extend a helping hand to those who have been comprehensively fucked over and this gets called divisive.
Go figure eh?Bingo! I’ve wanted to make this exact point in this thread for some time but know that it would've just fell on deaf ears with those with closed minds. Thanks AndyM.
This is another great example of the lies and fabrication of the socialist left/yes side in this whole charade.
The socialist left/yes side is peddling the disinformation that in The Voice Australia has only just now suddenly decided to start helping FNPs, to bridge the gap, to seek reconciliation, etc. That's completely ridiculous. No one with their eyes open could possibly fall for that.
Another lie by them is that only now with The Voice has Australia suddenly decided to start listening to FNPs, to allow them at the table of negotiations, and to set up a mechanism to provide advice and participate in decisions that affect them. That's another complete lie and scam that no one with half a brain could fall for.
These and many other lies and propaganda are comprehensively debunked by my longer post above and Kerrynne Liddle’s comments in the speech, which I repeat here:
Kerrynne Liddle wrote:We’re bombarded with claims and now slick advertising that Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander peoples do not already have a voice. That is simply not true!
I’m one of 11 politicians in the Australian Parliament today. It’s a pretty impressive collection of voices.
There’s an Indigenous ambassador, there are indigenous advocates, commissioners and there’s the experts in the Coalition of Peaks - comprising more than 80 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled organisations representing some 800 organisations.
The Coalition of Peaks already speaks to the Parliamentary Cabinet, to Ministers and has no restriction on who they speak to, or what they speak on.
Indigenous Australians also have a voice through more than 3000 bodies that are funded more than $5.3 billion of Commonwealth Indigenous-specific expenditure to improve the lives of our most marginalised - particularly the nearly 140,000 thousand indigenous Australians living in remote or very remote areas.
The role of the National Indigenous Australians Agency that reports to the Minister for Indigenous Australians – an Indigenous woman herself, and whose sole purpose is delivery of Indigenous programs is overseeing the $4.3 Billion investment through its role of advising government on improving lives through consultation and engagement.
The Albanese Government’s own Budget Papers in October 2022 and May 2023 use language of codesign, collaboration – these are existing concepts, language and practice within processes of the parliament and in the executive government.
The evidence is everywhere that Indigenous Australians already have a voice.
Also try reading the websites of National Indigenous Australians Agency and The Coalition of Peaks, as well as researching the last few decades of everything that has been done and that is continuing to be done to this day.
It seems to me that there's no "Truth Telling" being done by the socialist left/yes side at all. It's all an appeal to emotion and fabricated lies preying on people who don't look too deeply into any of it but instead just at the slogans and propaganda.
The Voice is another betrayal of all the Australian people (including of FNPs) by the ALP, just like its massive immigration intake locking more and more people out of the rental market and home ownership.
This is great.
Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
Derp
harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
Derp
Cannot condone abusive messages, but ya kind of leave yourself open to it if you send unsolicited texts to people.
Where did she get my number??
harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
Derp
You’re part of the vile humans Winnie. You’re all a bunch of grubs. The way you peanuts are attacking indo is disgusting.
andy-mac wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
DerpCannot condone abusive messages, but ya kind of leave yourself open to it if you send unsolicited texts to people.
Where did she get my number??
Can’t condone…… but
There ya go. Another vile human. You do condone it.
Grow up
Wasn’t comparing anything, you really are as sharp as a bowling ball aren’t you @info? To use your term I included the fossil fuel spend to add ‘perspective’..
Fossil fuel spend? These so called subsidies are mostly just fuel tax credits. Also included is accelerated depreciation, r&d tax offsets . Hardly the equivalent of a government grant or centrelink payment. These are available to all industries.
burleigh wrote:andy-mac wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
DerpCannot condone abusive messages, but ya kind of leave yourself open to it if you send unsolicited texts to people.
Where did she get my number??
Can’t condone…… but
There ya go. Another vile human. You do condone it.
Grow up
English not your strong point mate?
burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
DerpYou’re part of the vile humans Winnie. You’re all a bunch of grubs. The way you peanuts are attacking indo is disgusting.
Haha... i worked you out burley... yr nothing but a keyboard whinger who thinks he's a warrior... you and lowinfo and costco etc are really nothing but latent racists... it's there throughout yr posts... the mistrust, the divisiveness, the misinformation, the ignorance... nothing but raging yet ineffectual fascists. Pathetic.
harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
DerpYou’re part of the vile humans Winnie. You’re all a bunch of grubs. The way you peanuts are attacking indo is disgusting.
Haha... i worked you out burley... yr nothing but a keyboard whinger who thinks he's a warrior... you and lowinfo and costco etc are really nothing but latent racists... it's there throughout yr posts... the mistrust, the divisiveness, the misinformation, the ignorance... nothing but raging yet ineffectual fascists. Pathetic.
Yes voters. The spitters, the abusers, the public gimp/dog mask wearers and the swellnet gritters. Then we’ve got Winnie and co who loves to call any no voter a racist.
All vile humans
andy-mac wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
DerpCannot condone abusive messages, but ya kind of leave yourself open to it if you send unsolicited texts to people.
Where did she get my number??
Yep, as well as bullshitting 24/7 about representing “her mob” when she doesn’t not in the slightest way unless her mob is Murdoch, the IPA etc.
Ben Fordham FFS, former cadet sports reporter for the morning show now fucking know it all cultural warrior. Just another grifter who jumped aboard the perennially outraged gravy train
GuySmiley wrote:andy-mac wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
DerpCannot condone abusive messages, but ya kind of leave yourself open to it if you send unsolicited texts to people.
Where did she get my number??
Yep, as well as bullshitting 24/7 about representing “her mob” when she doesn’t not in the slightest way unless her mob is Murdoch, the IPA etc.
Ben Fordham FFS, former cadet sports reporter for the morning show now fucking know it all cultural warrior. Just another grifter who jumped aboard the perennially outraged gravy train
Now you’re bagging Ben Fordham. OMG you gritters just don’t stop.
Doing more damage than good to your yes vote.
burleigh wrote:the swellnet gritters.
All vile humans
What's a gritter? Someone who reads Beachgrit?
Hiccups wrote:burleigh wrote:the swellnet gritters.
All vile humansWhat's a gritter? Someone who reads Beachgrit?
Gritter
A person that is known as one of the dregs of society. GrItters are known for being unkempt and wearing pajamas to Walmart, and being of a lower IQ, while thinking they are some sort of dirtbag Patriarche.
The female version is a Gritta.
So yeah, someone that reads beachgrit
burleigh wrote:Hiccups wrote:burleigh wrote:the swellnet gritters.
All vile humansWhat's a gritter? Someone who reads Beachgrit?
Gritter
A person that is known as one of the dregs of society. GrItters are known for being unkempt and wearing pajamas to Walmart, and being of a lower IQ, while thinking they are some sort of dirtbag Patriarche.
The female version is a Gritta.So yeah, someone that reads beachgrit
I preferred it when you called everyone bed wetters, because you'd heard blowin say it, and you wanted to suck his toes.
Burleigh, victim of the American contagion effect.
AndyM wrote:Burleigh, victim of the American contagion effect.
Astute observation Andy
burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
DerpYou’re part of the vile humans Winnie. You’re all a bunch of grubs. The way you peanuts are attacking indo is disgusting.
Haha... i worked you out burley... yr nothing but a keyboard whinger who thinks he's a warrior... you and lowinfo and costco etc are really nothing but latent racists... it's there throughout yr posts... the mistrust, the divisiveness, the misinformation, the ignorance... nothing but raging yet ineffectual fascists. Pathetic.
Yes voters. The spitters, the abusers, the public gimp/dog mask wearers and the swellnet gritters. Then we’ve got Winnie and co who loves to call any no voter a racist.
All vile humans
Burley... fish food for fukwits
harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:Typical disgusting yes voters. You’re all the same. How low can you vile humans go. Vote No
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxma-knvfGA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Yet she has the right to say outright lies??
DerpYou’re part of the vile humans Winnie. You’re all a bunch of grubs. The way you peanuts are attacking indo is disgusting.
Haha... i worked you out burley... yr nothing but a keyboard whinger who thinks he's a warrior... you and lowinfo and costco etc are really nothing but latent racists... it's there throughout yr posts... the mistrust, the divisiveness, the misinformation, the ignorance... nothing but raging yet ineffectual fascists. Pathetic.
Yes voters. The spitters, the abusers, the public gimp/dog mask wearers and the swellnet gritters. Then we’ve got Winnie and co who loves to call any no voter a racist.
All vile humans
Burley... fish food for fukwits
Point proven.
GuySmiley wrote:Wasn’t comparing anything, you really are as sharp as a bowling ball aren’t you @info? To use your term I included the fossil fuel spend to add ‘perspective’.
Noting that you completely ignored my whole argument about smoothing out structural inequalities before launching into this mind wank ….
@info says “…. Indigenous spending is a never ending ongoing expense(especially in remote regions) that returns pretty much nothing thats why Abbott wanted to close down some remote communities to reduce cost, because the expense in those remote communities is high for the number of people that it helps, you get terrible bang for buck….”
So there you have it the real reason Dutton and the grifters Price and Mundine, along with their faceless elite backers, could never agree giving remote communities a Voice FFS, the Noalition want them moved on off country.
As I highlighted earlier the total spend on FNP, accepting @info’s rubbery figure, is just over 2.0% of the total size of the Australian economy FFS but apparently that is too much for the (c)unning (st)unts.
Mate you brought up the fossil fuel subsidies as a comparison, a very poorly thought out argument, now your trying to back track and get all abusive.
waveman wrote:Fossil fuel spend? These so called subsidies are mostly just fuel tax credits. Also included is accelerated depreciation, r&d tax offsets . Hardly the equivalent of a government grant or centrelink payment. These are available to all industries.
And this good points.
AndyM wrote:Burleigh, victim of the American contagion effect.
The pyjama brigade is also available at your local Kmart though. Maybe his Google search just brought up the American Urban Dictionary.
Life is full of maybes.
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28