The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
^ Another great example of the lies of the left/yes side.
They're peddling the propaganda that if the No vote gets up then Australia is facing the inevitable outcome of FNPs setting up a separate sovereign nation-state and going for further reparations and treaty, etc. This is not inevitable with a No win. Actually I'd question if this is precisely what the majority of FNPs in both the yes and no camps are really after, and they largely just differ in opinion of whether The Voice is the best way to achieve nation-statehood and treaty?
Another lie of the left/yes side is that, following on from the previous lies pointed out of supposedly Australia is only suddenly deciding now to help FNPs and give them a seat at the table and say in their destiny, if the No vote gets up then all hope is lost for FNPs, the Australian people have decided to never help FNPs ever and hence Australia is a horribly racist and heartless nation, there will never ever again be a chance for Australia to help FNPs (just for now ignore the Coalition of Peaks, NIAA, etc), etc.
These lies seem to contradict each other.
The lies of the left/yes side is a bottomless pit.
#communistwokemindvirus
harrycoopr wrote:If it's No bring on the Treaties... watch burleylowinfocostco lose their shit again
Real Aboriginal people will never assimilate!!
So are you saying the Aboriginal people that actually join wider society get an education, employment, and become our work colleagues, neighbours, friends even possibly family are the opposite of real?
Which I guess would make them fake or not genuine Aboriginals???
Hmmm thats not something i agree with at all.
gsco wrote:^ Another great example of the lies of the left/yes side.
They're peddling the propaganda that if the No vote gets up then Australia is facing the inevitable outcome of FNPs setting up a separate sovereign nation-state and going for further reparations and treaty, etc. This is not inevitable with a No win. Actually I'd question if this is precisely what the majority of FNPs in both the yes and no camps are really after, and they largely just differ in opinion of whether The Voice is the best way to achieve nation-statehood and treaty?
Another lie of the left/yes side is that, following on from the previous lies pointed out of supposedly Australia is only suddenly deciding now to help FNPs and give them a seat at the table and say in their destiny, if the No vote gets up then all hope is lost for FNPs, the Australian people have decided to never help FNPs ever and hence Australia is a horribly racist and heartless nation, there will never ever again be a chance for Australia to help FNPs (just for now ignore the Coalition of Peaks, NIAA, etc), etc.
These lies seem to contradict each other.
The lies of the left/yes side is a bottomless pit.
watched "the drum" last night, voice advocate john davis ceo of some fnp pro voice beaurocracy who is the brother of megan davis (nepotism) was first to speak, waffled on for 10 mins or so, then the host asked an ex lnp senator (6yrs retired) what her views were.
she managed one sentence then was continually spoken over in a disdainfull tone and interupted her and took over her turn to speak, and the abc host said nothing to stop his rudeness, arrogance and bullying.
australian broadcasting network...not anymore!!...aborigine broadcasting network.
harrycoopr wrote:If it's No bring on the Treaties... watch burleylowinfocostco lose their shit again
Real Aboriginal people will never assimilate!!
Keep the delusions going Winnie. Great Wednesday entertainment from the new contender for Swellnets biggest cooker.
You lot doing an insanely good job to confirm people no vote with your cooked outlook.
Another absolutely COOKED yes vote campaigner doing more damage than good with her blackface.
Seriously how did they yes23 crew pick these people.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12560129/amp/Magda-Szubanski-sl...
dunno about a discussion starter...
sounds like some next level racist bullshit to me
judgemental condescending racist bullshit at that
is that you joe biden?
as white as winnie...
as dumbfuck as joe...
what a mix!
I took it as sarcasm, but who knows anymore?
[YES] Noel Pearson (Live) ABC Nat Press Club or Twitter.
saw warren mundines press conference with news flash interuption (abc).
brilliant how he pointed out the law society backing the voice was wrong, justice is supposed to be impartial not biased (my words).
i now know the reason why the business council and their foreign members have been allowed to interfere with our democratic process when it is absoloutely none of their business, it becomes their business after the reffo.
and why the lawyers are silent on this blatant interference in our constitution, because they are afraid of their future careers.
2wks ago in news a proffesor from charles darwin university emailed her students studying for a medical degree, she said that if they don't vote yes it may effect their careers.
the last time a countries acadamics and democratic institutions became corrupted by orwellian politic was germany 1934.
Godwin's Law
Reductio ad Hitlerum
Swillnet has finally become a refuge for the boiled, steamed, roasted, fried (air and pan) and microwaved fully cooked cookers of the world. Congratulations SN take a bow.
yep. and some real nice people-in-the-middle
GuySmiley wrote:Swillnet has finally become a refuge for the boiled, steamed, roasted, fried (air and pan) and microwaved fully cooked cookers of the world. Congratulations SN take a bow.
GuyFrowny :(
"My people are a good people. They’ve done nothing to deserve contempt and disdain. They should not be feared or despised. They have suffered much. Let’s not prolong the alienation. They have much to contribute to their country, if only they be given the chance to.
This is a modest proposal, but profound."
Noel Pearson, a few minutes ago at the NPC.
burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:If it's No bring on the Treaties... watch burleylowinfocostco lose their shit again
Real Aboriginal people will never assimilate!!Keep the delusions going Winnie. Great Wednesday entertainment from the new contender for Swellnets biggest cooker.
You lot doing an insanely good job to confirm people no vote with your cooked outlook.
Let me explain something to you dumbheads... you talk about Yes being divisive based on RACIAL grounds. There are no separate races of people u idiots, just different cultures or ethnicities if u want. There is one race of human being, homo sapiens, tho i wonder about some of the primitives on here
From my experience, Aboriginal people have always put country/family/culture first. Of course money is necessary but the blackfellas i have known never gave a fuk about money. They don't want mining...but where it's done regardless if their wishes they'll take the royalties as small compensation... this is one difference between our cultures. They depise white fellas love of money at te expense of all else.
The blackfellas i know have a term... coconuts... u know the analogy.. any blackfella who turns their back on their culturefamilycountry may still be Aboriginal (looking) but theyre a coconut... they've rescinded their cultural privileges.
Of course the pressures of assimilation are huge, especially from you conservative dumbfuks, so blackfellas are forever resisting this... but some don't.
An old friend of mine learnt his dad was one of the Stolen Generation. This friend grew up white.. he had no idea of his father's heritage. Once he found out he "became" Aboriginal... this is racist. He had no cultural foundation other than whitey... so how did he become Aboriginal? Of course he took advantage of this so he became even more white in my eyes and the friendship petered out.
The blackfellas i have known always put their culture first... and that culture is very different to whiteys ... hence the reason for the problems. All yr conservative coconuts are interested in are themselves... hence their hysterical No positions... same as u dumbasses.
"On October 14, we get a chance to begin a new chapter of Australian history, to bequeath our children the future they want - not the past that burdens us.
On October 14, we whisper into the wind of time that no gets us nowhere and yes makes it possible.
On October 14, we can carve our generation’s name into the bed rock of history. And for as long as there is history in this land, it will be recorded - we were asked and we proudly voted yes.
We can do this for the love of our country. The love of Australia. My land. Your land. Our land. Thank you."
Pearson's closing remarks at the NPC
Adam12. Right on brother. ✅ .AW
burleigh wrote:GuySmiley wrote:Swillnet has finally become a refuge for the boiled, steamed, roasted, fried (air and pan) and microwaved fully cooked cookers of the world. Congratulations SN take a bow.
GuyFrowny :(
That’s the best thing you’ve ever said here Burleigh, witty
just like joe...
the deranged ageing ideological idiot with failing thought process provides SOOOOOO much material...
it seems cruel to go there
better to let the twit hang himself
harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:If it's No bring on the Treaties... watch burleylowinfocostco lose their shit again
Real Aboriginal people will never assimilate!!Keep the delusions going Winnie. Great Wednesday entertainment from the new contender for Swellnets biggest cooker.
You lot doing an insanely good job to confirm people no vote with your cooked outlook.
Let me explain something to you dumbheads... you talk about Yes being divisive based on RACIAL grounds. There are no separate races of people u idiots, just different cultures or ethnicities if u want. There is one race of human being, homo sapiens, tho i wonder about some of the primitives on here
From my experience, Aboriginal people have always put country/family/culture first. Of course money is necessary but the blackfellas i have known never gave a fuk about money. They don't want mining...but where it's done regardless if their wishes they'll take the royalties as small compensation... this is one difference between our cultures. They depise white fellas love of money at te expense of all else.
The blackfellas i know have a term... coconuts... u know the analogy.. any blackfella who turns their back on their culturefamilycountry may still be Aboriginal (looking) but theyre a coconut... they've rescinded their cultural privileges.
Of course the pressures of assimilation are huge, especially from you conservative dumbfuks, so blackfellas are forever resisting this... but some don't.
An old friend of mine learnt his dad was one of the Stolen Generation. This friend grew up white.. he had no idea of his father's heritage. Once he found out he "became" Aboriginal... this is racist. He had no cultural foundation other than whitey... so how did he become Aboriginal? Of course he took advantage of this so he became even more white in my eyes and the friendship petered out.
The blackfellas i have known always put their culture first... and that culture is very different to whiteys ... hence the reason for the problems. All yr conservative coconuts are interested in are themselves... hence their hysterical No positions... same as u dumbasses.
by your own words you have outed yourself racist.
racism is where you prejudge someone by the colour of their skin, their country of origin or accent.
and this reffo has proven young aboriginals are being taught in preschool to be racists.
again the last time in a western democracy that happened was germany 1934.
Again, Godwin's law.
Reductio ad Hitlerum
"Once he found out he "became" Aboriginal... this is racist."
Fraught topic.
According to Melbourne Uni -
"Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage is personal to the individual. You don't need to prove that you are an Indigenous Australian.
However, Government agencies and community organisations will, in some cases, request proof of aboriginality when applying for Indigenous-specific services or programs.
In this cases, three ‘working criteria’ as confirmation of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage are requested.
These are:
- being of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
- identifying as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
- being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived."
Wonder what Robbie Page would say.
Or Dallas Scott
Or Maurice Cole.
or any of the many Aboriginal people who read this thread but have hitherto found it such a pointless point-scoring rant-fest, they haven't felt they could find a place to have a voice in it.
sameaswas wrote:harrycoopr wrote:burleigh wrote:harrycoopr wrote:If it's No bring on the Treaties... watch burleylowinfocostco lose their shit again
Real Aboriginal people will never assimilate!!Keep the delusions going Winnie. Great Wednesday entertainment from the new contender for Swellnets biggest cooker.
You lot doing an insanely good job to confirm people no vote with your cooked outlook.
Let me explain something to you dumbheads... you talk about Yes being divisive based on RACIAL grounds. There are no separate races of people u idiots, just different cultures or ethnicities if u want. There is one race of human being, homo sapiens, tho i wonder about some of the primitives on here
From my experience, Aboriginal people have always put country/family/culture first. Of course money is necessary but the blackfellas i have known never gave a fuk about money. They don't want mining...but where it's done regardless if their wishes they'll take the royalties as small compensation... this is one difference between our cultures. They depise white fellas love of money at te expense of all else.
The blackfellas i know have a term... coconuts... u know the analogy.. any blackfella who turns their back on their culturefamilycountry may still be Aboriginal (looking) but theyre a coconut... they've rescinded their cultural privileges.
Of course the pressures of assimilation are huge, especially from you conservative dumbfuks, so blackfellas are forever resisting this... but some don't.
An old friend of mine learnt his dad was one of the Stolen Generation. This friend grew up white.. he had no idea of his father's heritage. Once he found out he "became" Aboriginal... this is racist. He had no cultural foundation other than whitey... so how did he become Aboriginal? Of course he took advantage of this so he became even more white in my eyes and the friendship petered out.
The blackfellas i have known always put their culture first... and that culture is very different to whiteys ... hence the reason for the problems. All yr conservative coconuts are interested in are themselves... hence their hysterical No positions... same as u dumbasses.by your own words you have outed yourself racist.
racism is where you prejudge someone by the colour of their skin, their country of origin or accent.
and this reffo has proven young aboriginals are being taught in preschool to be racists.
again the last time in a western democracy that happened was germany 1934.
U really are an idiot
AndyM wrote:"Once he found out he "became" Aboriginal... this is racist."
Fraught topic.
According to Melbourne Uni -"Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage is personal to the individual. You don't need to prove that you are an Indigenous Australian.
However, Government agencies and community organisations will, in some cases, request proof of aboriginality when applying for Indigenous-specific services or programs.
In this cases, three ‘working criteria’ as confirmation of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage are requested.
These are:
- being of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
- identifying as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
- being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived."Wonder what Robbie Page would say.
This is the main problem with identity politics... anyone these days can just say "I identify as such and such, therefore I am" which is just ridiculous... how does someone who has grown up whitey instantly become a blackfella cos they learn of some ancestry?? To do so relies on a sense of hereditary which infers bloodlines which presupposes different races. Kinda like ppl wearing surf gear for the cool factor when in fact they know nothing about surfing
Voting has Started & tbb is remotely interested
$450m @ $25 / vote & over 50% First Nation are refused Voting in the Voice
AEC only managed 4/20 minimal languages currently 13 translations...too late as Voting started.
Voice voting started on Monday....let's pretend to care & see how it's going & Wotz the Tally
News Review of AEC remote set up...
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/25/indigenous-voice-...
Monday...
*Tiwi Islanders Won the Voice Race to cast the First Vote/s
https://www.news.com.au/news/northern-territory/tiwi-islanders-cast-firs...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-26/referendum-pre-polling-has-begun-...
Green Ant Bully's 100% Guaranteed Neutral Voiceless Scrutineering is exclusive to swellnet crew!
ABC Video : (Above)
PM : [YES] 80% Aboriginal Support = Tiwi Island's Booth has 100% [YES] Campaign.
Not one [NO] Campaign Sign or [NO] Booth Rep on site...(Why?)
Open Question at this time > Heavy Media presence may have scared them off!
Media : Are stalking, spying & zooming in on Voter's Papers (Surely that's an AEC breach!)
Notice AEC Purple Instruction signage + AEC Pink Vote director / Directives.
Now notice the Purple [VOTE] Pink [YES] sign centres the colour co-ordinated Pink / Purple AEC Staff.
tbb did out this a few weeks back that [YES] + [AEC] were crossing their Pinky Purple Light Sabres.
Also Ribbon Oz Map outline imagery
[NO] were too busy tearing up Aboriginal & Oz Flags to further divide our nation.
Pause: Before [NO] Camp get ticked off...about [YES] [AEC] confusing TIWI voters.
TIWI Voters were of the lucky few that did albeit post deadline Voice Booklet in their language...
[ Voice Rorting Exhibit 1] Tiwi [YES] [NO] Reffo Booklet (Unsure about any Usure Voter's Translation)
https://www.aec.gov.au/about_aec/translated_information/tiwi.htm
AEC = Hardly a fair dinkum Vote Rort, this is a trial AEC Half Blind or somethin' Vote Rorting Intitiative!
Noting there are Zero other [NO] Signs / Booth workers to actually give a shit or lodge a complaint...
Sure! tbb is neutral & offering up evidence of half hearted collusion of real life monsters...go get 'em!
[Voice Rorting Exhibit 2] AEC [ Purple Campaign Signage ]
https://www.aec.gov.au/FAQs/files/21-1579-factsheet-purple-signage-02.pdf
Translation...read the fine print...
[YES] Camp are exploiting a sneaky [AEC] Doggy Door > (Strictly Applies to Only 2022 Fed Election!)
Not the 2023 Reffo...aside from manic bipolar tbb...only dodgy folk would suss that out to exploit it!
[NO] can also use [AEC] Purple / Pink colours if they choose...see wot tbb is sayin...race to the bottom!
Just saying...this Shit needs to Stop before it ends in booth worker catfights & fisticuffs...(Cough!)
[AEC] Gee! Just checked & guess Wot...Our Colour scheme don't apply to Reffos > Our hands are tied!
Altogether : "How were any to know this would happen...It's not AEC or anyone's fault...nuthin' suss!"
Mon / Tuesday
Many reports of lack of info...
Example : "Voting is only Available to Remote Aboriginals for just the 1 day or 1 to 3 days / week!"
AEC : "We're in the process of confirming whether Posters to inform communities had been put up!"
AEC : 'Aboriginals that miss out on their Demo' Turtle Sausage...wouldn't know wot a Postal Ballot is!'
Sure : Pretend ya got Lost in tbb's Translation ...just servin' it up straight! (Listen to Boots Pod...below)
On a rather serious Incident > Death in Paradise - draws nearly everyone away!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-26/nt-remote-voice-referendum-voting...
Salute SBS for pressing pause...Please spare a moment...{R.I.P}
Another Top End Youth Suicide tragedy shatters the Voice! Mob are in 2 minds about Voting at all.
tbb will only motion for AEC to kindly exempt Compulsory Voting on this saddened Community!
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/voting-has-begun-on-bathurst-island-...
Remote Consensus : Voting [YES] because everybody else is Voting [YES] & a few People Voted [NO]
Of those ABC interviewed all reported or recorded they were Voting [YES]
Creepy how only this AEC chick openly talks to everyone about how they're Voting [YES] or [NO]
AEC Chick confirms 100% > Zero [NO] Campaigners present.
Just a few [NO] Loudmouth's shouting Listen Up...Here I am ...Me Voting [NO]...they're he goes! Bye!
Pause : All keep bangin' on 'bout their duty to get as much people to Vote as Possible...
Increased 94.1% of reducing record low 40% minority Aboriginal AEC compliant Pop.
Increased 97.7% of increasing record high 75% majority of non Aboriginal AEC compliant Pop
In house Child Rape traps < ( ( Widening Gap ) ) > Aged Care Slave Labour Camps.
AEC enrollment is fast reducing democratic right for Aboriginal pop in every future election.
If voters can't see that, then please immediately volunteer to surrender your Voting entitlement.
Voting is not helping Aborigines it only further racially disempowers First Nation at record speed!
Give the Locals a say in their own affairs... if not...at least stop mandating increasingly racist elections!
Of course all racist Voice Voters will be rewarded with some BBC stylized ~ Irish boot (Booth) or (Pod)
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/australia-wide/australia-wide/102...
harrycoopr wrote:AndyM wrote:"Once he found out he "became" Aboriginal... this is racist."
Fraught topic.
According to Melbourne Uni -"Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage is personal to the individual. You don't need to prove that you are an Indigenous Australian.
However, Government agencies and community organisations will, in some cases, request proof of aboriginality when applying for Indigenous-specific services or programs.
In this cases, three ‘working criteria’ as confirmation of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage are requested.
These are:
- being of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
- identifying as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
- being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived."Wonder what Robbie Page would say.
This is the main problem with identity politics... anyone these days can just say "I identify as such and such, therefore I am" which is just ridiculous... how does someone who has grown up whitey instantly become a blackfella cos they learn of some ancestry?? To do so relies on a sense of hereditary which infers bloodlines which presupposes different races. Kinda like ppl wearing surf gear for the cool factor when in fact they know nothing about surfing
Interesting comment, if i said this, id have half a dozen people attacking me calling me all types of names.
“King Kamahl“ has definitely been sipping the sherry. https://x.com/officialkamahl/status/1706513094640586763?s=46&t=5RczxwAfz... and how about Queen Jacinta ? Her and wazza both wanting a seat on the voice if it does get up . Do they really believe a community of FNP would vote them in to represent them ? Farking Dreaming ! https://x.com/blakandblack/status/1706769153548280152?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe...
"Interesting comment, if i said this, id have half a dozen people attacking me calling me all types of names."
Haha. Cry me a river.
Then maybe ask yourself "Why is that?"
AndyM wrote:"Once he found out he "became" Aboriginal... this is racist."
Fraught topic.
According to Melbourne Uni -"Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage is personal to the individual. You don't need to prove that you are an Indigenous Australian.
However, Government agencies and community organisations will, in some cases, request proof of aboriginality when applying for Indigenous-specific services or programs.
In this cases, three ‘working criteria’ as confirmation of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage are requested.
These are:
- being of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
- identifying as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
- being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived."Wonder what Robbie Page would say.
thanks andym for your succint and polite reply sometimes i post stuff that i think is provocative, but it's the "voice" curse, someone is bound to be triggered no matter how you put a point of view across.
allso read that an elder can give a letter of approval or if someones partner is fnp or an ancestor was.
and apparently according to tara reid the young voice lawyer the population is 3% of oz but she left out the .8% of ppl who recognise as atsi in the last couple of census's...or so i read somewhere, not sure of exact figures but it's true ppl are jumping on the atsi gravytrain by asserting their fnp heritage. oops done it again.
Let's cut to the chase, the use of the term "gravy train" suggests you are just interested in the money?
sameaswas wrote:took a break for lunch, abc news on tele 12ish, newsflash...albo in whyalla s.a. with premier spruiking hyrogen project blahblah, any questions? well eventually went to voice (of course it would) and his same old pitch and quoted the (i) (ii) and (iii) points on ballot paper and made a huge faux pas on (ii) quote albo..."the aborigine and torres strait islander voice SHALL blahblah" then stopped and corrected himself and started again and said MAY make representations to the parliament blahblah etc.
the words shall and must in legal terms is emphatic clear and defined, when should and may are used the proposed law is open to interpretation. now i think the pm made a mistake but he let the cat out the bag.
explainer...by useing "may" means the voice panel can censor any gripe from isoted communities which is contradictory to it's purpose.
allso in that (ii) it says "to the parliament and the executive government blahblah".
that is back to front? govt first then if gov agrees debated in parliament??
i may be pedant here or some may say anal retentive but this is more proof of what a botched reffo this is.
another thing, because of the wording of "statement of the proposed changes to be made to the constitution"...(ii)the aboriginal and torres strait islander voice MAY blahblahetc.
what that means is they put their demands to the govt, if govt is iffy on whatever it is and go we will discuss it in parliament the voice has the constitutional power to go no we will go direectly to the high court for a decision, or even if it is debated in parliament and not approved they will go to high court.
langton, reid,davis, pearson have all stated they can take claims to high court, any citizen can but cost you $$$.
so we have the oz lawyers association backing the voice23 vote which in my opinion the high court should of stopped because the justice system is supposed to be apolitical.
overtime the ppl will realise we no longer have a blind, unbiased court system.
blackers wrote:Let's cut to the chase, the use of the term "gravy train" suggests you are just interested in the money?
i thought it was obvious thats what i meant...i mean them not me.
Oh it was obvious, just sad.
.
adam12 wrote:Sameaswas,
The word "may" in legislation is used to describe discretionary power while "shall" imposes a duty. The Voice "may" make representations means it has the discretion to make them or not, that's it.
The word "must" is never used in legislation, it is "may" (discretion) or "shall" (duty) only.The relationship between the Voice, the executive and the Parliament is not finalised. If a yes vote succeeds the legislative model will be designed by the Parliament but in any case the High Court only has the power to order that the process of considering a Voice submission is undertaken. The High Court cannot overrule a decision by the Executive or Parliament and insert it's own, it can only order that the procedure (i.e. consider the Voice proposal) is undertaken, not what is decided.
"langton, reid,davis, pearson have all stated they can take claims to high court, any citizen can but cost you $$$.
so we have the oz lawyers association backing the voice23 vote which in my opinion the high court should of stopped because the justice system is supposed to be apolitical.overtime the ppl will realise we no longer have a blind, unbiased court system"
Not anyone can take a case to the High Court, you have to have standing, which means the High Court decides you are an appropriate party to start proceedings. If any of those people you mentioned were not on the Voice panel they would not have standing. The High Court has no power to "stop" any legal association from doing anything, only the power to make decisions on the particular cases before it. Legal associations are not part of the justice system. they are just professional associations similar to those in any other profession. The Law Council has only stated what the Solicitor General has stated, that the Voice is just and legally sound, they are entitled to do so, just as they would be entitled to say it is not if it wasn't.
Langton and the others would only have standing to go to the High Court if they are members of the Voice panel and the government has not considered a submission made by the Voice panel as it is required to, and the High Court only has the power to order them to consider it, not to substitute it's own opinion or find either way on the merits of the submission.
Our Courts are apolitical, if any decision is made for political not legal reasons then it can be appealed and overturned.
blackers wrote:Oh it was obvious, just sad.
ok 1 more post... over a 6yr period b4 reffo campaign noel pearson and his cohorts visited every isolated community to discuss the usfth and asked them what they wanted and revisited on numerous occasions to keep updated etc and noel pearson has said they all gave the same demand, guess what? unpaid rent$$$ and reperations$$$.
i think thats 270 isolated communities and they all said exactly the same.
this detail is part of the 26pages, then recently changed to 18 pages then 15 pages and now today heard it's back up to 26pages.
said it b4 we do not need a voice especially one that will be made up of pearsons mob who obviously for 20+yrs have suffered from selective hearing loss and ignore or speakover, denigrate, insult, abuse anyone not on their orwellian power grab.
they have accepted monies from foreign corporations for a final 2mnth propaganda bash.
they were given 370mil$ nothing to the other side.
the 67 reffo for the right to vote lasted 3mnths this one 9+mnths so far, that is pschycological torture to force us into submission. (1984)
the law society is pro voice, so much for neutrality and seperation of state powers...shameshame on the lot.
please read wavemans post and vote no.
oh and by putting the 2 clauses in the 26 pages that is guaranteeing they will vote yes, allso referred to as porkbarreling and or grifting. am i right or am i right?
https://cosmosmagazine.com/people/society/colonialism-not-positive-for-a.... Psychologist: Colonialism was not all positive for Aboriginal people……… Price’s comments reveal a lack of comprehension regarding race mediated trauma; the ongoing impacts of colonialism; the conditions that enabled it and which continue; which have been linked not by anecdote, but by science.
Supafreak wrote:https://cosmosmagazine.com/people/society/colonialism-not-positive-for-a.... Psychologist: Colonialism was not all positive for Aboriginal people……… Price’s comments reveal a lack of comprehension regarding race mediated trauma; the ongoing impacts of colonialism; the conditions that enabled it and which continue; which have been linked not by anecdote, but by science.
There's two narratives and both aren't true.
1. Colonialism is all bad and all issues and trauma is a result of colonialism
2. Colonialism is all good and there is no issues or trauma as a result of colonialism
The problem and frustration is more colonialism & intergenerational trauma are always used as a reason to explain any negative issues seen in Indigenous communities or people, which is lazy & dishonest and totally ignores other factors, some much more likely to be bigger influence's .
only in the extremes Indo, not the real world, but I agree. The messy reality is what we need to address, not the polarised views that media and socials make their money from.
{Intermission} by the Voice over guy!
Dedicated to crew beat fans...dig that crazy sound man!
If Pleasantville, Australia we're allowed to have a Voice.
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1st Jan 1957 The Flibberty Jib...by Ken Nordine and the Fred Katz Group...(Salute!)
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@ben
@stu
Editorially do you find it acceptable that the colonisation of Australian and its immediate and ongoing consequences is discussed in this manner and the comments remain unchallenged and/or on your website for everyone to read?
Yes? No?
It’s one thing for someone to like Price to question the impact of colonisation for crude political purposes, something I described as a form of holocaust denial, but for a commentator here to do so is something altogether different.
To discuss the immediate and ongoing genocidal like impacts of colonisation on FNP in such an off handed way is deeply disturbing. I am seriously left wondering how someone can be so incredibly insensitive or ignorant.
I await your response
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:https://cosmosmagazine.com/people/society/colonialism-not-positive-for-a.... Psychologist: Colonialism was not all positive for Aboriginal people……… Price’s comments reveal a lack of comprehension regarding race mediated trauma; the ongoing impacts of colonialism; the conditions that enabled it and which continue; which have been linked not by anecdote, but by science.
There's two narratives and both aren't true.
1. Colonialism is all bad and all issues and trauma is a result of colonialism
2. Colonialism is all good and there is no issues or trauma as a result of colonialism
The problem and frustration is more colonialism & intergenerational trauma are always used as a reason to explain any negative issues seen in Indigenous communities or people, which is lazy & dishonest and totally ignores other factors, some much more likely to be bigger influence's .
GuySmiley wrote:@ben
@stuEditorially do you find it acceptable that the colonisation of Australian and its immediate and ongoing consequences is discussed in this manner and the comments remain unchallenged and/or on your website for everyone to read?
Yes? No?
It’s one thing for someone to like Price to question the impact of colonisation for crude political purposes, something I described as a form of holocaust denial, but for a commentator here to do so is something altogether different.
To discuss the immediate and ongoing genocidal like impacts of colonisation on FNP in such an off handed way is deeply disturbing. I am seriously left wondering how someone can be so incredibly insensitive or ignorant.
I await your response
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:https://cosmosmagazine.com/people/society/colonialism-not-positive-for-a.... Psychologist: Colonialism was not all positive for Aboriginal people……… Price’s comments reveal a lack of comprehension regarding race mediated trauma; the ongoing impacts of colonialism; the conditions that enabled it and which continue; which have been linked not by anecdote, but by science.
There's two narratives and both aren't true.
1. Colonialism is all bad and all issues and trauma is a result of colonialism
2. Colonialism is all good and there is no issues or trauma as a result of colonialism
The problem and frustration is more colonialism & intergenerational trauma are always used as a reason to explain any negative issues seen in Indigenous communities or people, which is lazy & dishonest and totally ignores other factors, some much more likely to be bigger influence's .
What a bizarre comment, did you read my comment correctly?
My view point is actually less extreme than Jacinta's who is an indigenous person and of course shadow minister for indigenous Australia and who's family has lived and breathed life in central Australia communities with real issues. (opposed to most other indigenous leaders like say Lidia thorpe who grew up in Collingwood far detached from this life)
My comment points out the problem with the extreme black and white views and that some nuance needs to be had.
While i know where Jacinta is coming from, as i said a few times now i dont totally agree with her blanket black and white statement, i think she should have been more clever and worded it better and just said that its possible there is ongoing effects from colonisation even possibly trauma but that other influences like culture are generally ignored and in most case's a bigger factor.
That would have left her open to less criticism and some wiggle room, while still making her point.
Although i dont know if Australia is completely ready for these conversations especially any view point that doesn't see culture as all positive, either way she shouldn't have made such a black and white statement and just said its a much overstated factor
BTW. A very good documentary just dropped by Jacinta that talks to a number of other members of her family and other indigenous people, the documentary deals with a range of issues like negative aspects of culture in particular around mens attitudes to women etc but the docco is centred around the story of Jacinta's Auntie that went missing forty years ago and hasnt been seen since. (suspected murdered)
She went missing after she had been given to a much older man as a promised bride at 14 years old, he already had a wife but murdered her and had done prison time, you should watch it, maybe you could actually learn something from people with real lived experience.
&t=2540s
GuySmiley wrote:@ben @stu
Editorially do you find it acceptable that the colonisation of Australian and its immediate and ongoing consequences is discussed in this manner and the comments remain unchallenged and/or on your website for everyone to read?
Yes? No?
Yes.
To be more clear. I think the referendum is a private matter, and from a personal viewpoint I've possibly spent more time thinking about it than any federal election. A polite response might be to say 'no' I don't think it's acceptable, there's been comments from a number of people, both sides of the debate, that I find in bad taste. Not offensive, just juvenile name calling.
But by and large, and more so in line with my principles, I think 'yes' we should be talking about colonisation and the effects from it. I wish those discussions were held out as moments of expansion, as ways to logically work through issues (if anyone here has read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' think of Pirsig's chautauquas) rather than merely another another front to prove the other side wrong.
Feels like it's all culture war writ large; each side burrowed in deep with no hope of shifting, lobbing links and news stories at the other like armaments.
@stu,
Thanks for the reply.
My take (my principles if you like) is to question the genocidal like impacts of colonisation, to even hint that there could possibly be positives to consider, no matter how cutely the question is posed in a double negative, is the Australian equivalent of holocaust denial. The undeniable truth shouts nothing else.
GuySmiley wrote:@stu,
Thanks for the reply.
My take (my principles if you like) is to question the genocidal like impacts of colonisation, to even hint that there could possibly be positives to consider, no matter how cutely the question is posed in a double negative, is the Australian equivalent of holocaust denial. The undeniable truth shouts nothing else.
The holocaust wasn't an inevitability. Many alternatives were presented along the way from 1919 and the terms of the Treaty of Versailles on down. Thousands of alternative scenarios.
In contrast, colonisation of Australia WAS an inevitability. I mean, the French were just days late and they don't have the greatest record of human rights in their African colonies. And if not those two then Portugal, Spain, or god forbid, Belgium, who have a truly ghastly record (DRC and Rwanda) - there's an undeniable truth for you.
The crux of it is not, how are we to view colonisation, but how are we to move forward from it? There's no one simple solution, they're all fucking hard, and they're really fucking hard to think about considering the weight of the topic.
Very good answers Stu. Again.
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28