The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Stellar rundown of the mindless, and/or blowarded, and/or dangerous scumbags behind the No rally in Sydney yesterday. If I found myself on the same side as these bottom feeders, I'd be taking an acid bath just to get the stink off.
A 🧵 Todays Sydney “Vote No” Rally will contain a milieu of far-right figures including Nazis, white nationalist, QAnon conspiracists, Russian Nationalists and their political allies.
— Alternate Media Watchers (@AltMediaWatch) September 23, 2023
This thread will explain who they are. 1/ pic.twitter.com/woPhu5L2ui
gsco wrote:The Voice divides the nation into two groups based on race/ethnicity/ancestry/indigeneity (whatever words or terms one wants to dress it up and parade it around in).
It is wrong to do this because Australia is multicultural and diverse, comprised of peoples from many different backgrounds, all of equal worth and value, and all with equal freedom and rights.
The Voice is also racist and discriminatory by legally enshrining in the constitution privileged or elevated political rights to one particular racial/ethnic/ancestral/indigenous group. It doesn’t matter which group is being given the privileged rights - it’s still racism and discrimination.
It’s wrong to do this because a basic tenet of our society and way of life is equality in freedoms and rights, particularly political participation, which every Australian already has. FNPs can already vote like the rest of us. They are also equally free to run for parliament either within political parties or as independents, set up lobby groups, or even set up whole political parties.
The Voice is a charade.
In doing the above, it goes against the last few hundred years of political, legal, philosophical, sociological, etc, thought, progress and development. To continue this progress, we should be focused on removing any remaining institutional privilege and discrimination, not creating it.
But HOW does it do it costco?
By recognising the original inhabitants?? By allowing an A D V I S O R Y body??
How does this divide a nation?
Please explain
waveman wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:waveman wrote:https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/indigenous/auditorgeneral-urged-...
Waveman. Hi. Whats your motive here ? AW
Lots of Australian taxpayers wondering why $30 billion a year isn’t getting to those that need it the most.
Timely also given the concerns around the voice being ATSIC 2.0/son of ATSIC.
Waveman. Hi . I sincerely apologise for my spray the other day, as GF said, totally got my wires crossed, happens in this forum, you go cross-eyed regularly, forget who said what. No pain intended at all.
Well, cant waist that spray. Who can we give it to ?
All the best, sorry.AW
Haha, AW! VERY glad you dodged Joe Blake, I agree re healthy yard, stumpy/sleepy/shingles are out in force here last few days.
I reckon it is 'overthefalls' your apology would be directed at ; )
AlfredWallace wrote:waveman wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:waveman wrote:https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/indigenous/auditorgeneral-urged-...
Waveman. Hi. Whats your motive here ? AW
Lots of Australian taxpayers wondering why $30 billion a year isn’t getting to those that need it the most.
Timely also given the concerns around the voice being ATSIC 2.0/son of ATSIC.
Waveman. Hi . I sincerely apologise for my spray the other day, as GF said, totally got my wires crossed, happens in this forum, you go cross-eyed regularly, forget who said what. No pain intended at all.
Well, cant waist that spray. Who can we give it to ?
All the best, sorry.AW
Hi AW. Your spray was directed at me, but I wasn’t offended because I knew you’d got mixed up. Waveman had posted a link to an article about fraud in an Aboriginal organisation and when you asked him what his motive was, I accused him of punching down.
basesix wrote:Haha, AW! VERY glad you dodged Joe Blake, I agree re healthy yard, stumpy/sleepy/shingles are out in force here last few days.
I reckon it is 'overthefalls' your apology would be directed at ; )
Basesix. Hi. How’s things, you are not well at present I’ve read ?
Oh yeah , fucked up there, hope Waveman accepts my apology.
Please help me, i write so much I sometimes lose track.
Who should’ve been on the end of my spray ?
Yes, all the cold-blooded animals are out, not just in this Forum but the biological world as well.
Down your way sounds very interesting and a healthy environment to boot.
What vegetation is doing its stuff close to you and or away from you ?
On another note. Have you read the book ,’The Song of The Dodo’ by David Quammen ? AW
basesix wrote:Haha, AW! VERY glad you dodged Joe Blake, I agree re healthy yard, stumpy/sleepy/shingles are out in force here last few days.
I reckon it is 'overthefalls' your apology would be directed at ; )
Yes it was OTF that deserved the apology, it’s fun getting old eh AW
Alfred your annoyance is with Waveman. Not overthefalls.
overthefalls wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:waveman wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:waveman wrote:https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/indigenous/auditorgeneral-urged-...
Waveman. Hi. Whats your motive here ? AW
Lots of Australian taxpayers wondering why $30 billion a year isn’t getting to those that need it the most.
Timely also given the concerns around the voice being ATSIC 2.0/son of ATSIC.
Waveman. Hi . I sincerely apologise for my spray the other day, as GF said, totally got my wires crossed, happens in this forum, you go cross-eyed regularly, forget who said what. No pain intended at all.
Well, cant waist that spray. Who can we give it to ?
All the best, sorry.AW
Hi AW. Your spray was directed at me, but I wasn’t offended because I knew you’d got mixed up. Waveman had posted a link to an article about fraud in an Aboriginal organisation and when you asked him what his motive was, I accused him of punching down.
OverThe Falls. Again, sincere apology, my gross error, flapping my mouth off. You know how it goes, excitement, blood pressure increases etc.
As I’ve mentioned previously, my dead grandmothers quote “Make sure brain is engaged before putting mouth into gear”. Well, she’d roll in her grave.
I was trying to reinforce the point for the fiftieth time, that corruption in business or political walks of life, is and will always exist.i.e
The fools on this forum who seem to think that it’s only applicable to FNP get under my skin, it really highlights their naivety, childishness and selfishness. Maybe I’m too sensitive or wear my heart on my sleeve.
It’s very immature to singularly target one particular group. AW
@AW 
AW. In terms of nomenkompositum monikers, I reckon you have different views to 'waveman' and 'sameaswas', and that you and 'overthefalls' would be kindred spirits over a beer.
Yeh, got me some tall-man-back-shit. Every 2 years is the norm (whaddya reckon blackers?) always a week of slow-mo and a week or 'careful' for me. Watching Tigers smash Sturt at the moment. Could be worse.
I'll have a wander round the property, and look for some interesting bits for you. Beautiful time of year, but I'm distracted by just glaring at polygala atm. 600 Wilarn/YTBlacks flew over yesterday, heading to the coast. Didn't have any recording gear at the ready. No wind, would have been good.
Waveman. I DO NOT apologise to you one iota.. Your childish and single focused attack on FNP really highlights your lack of empathy and or understanding of really anything. Am i surprised, no, your I.Q probably matches your shoe size, i hear you’ve got very small feet and everything else. AW
basesix wrote:AW. In terms of nomenkompositum monikers, I reckon you have different views to 'waveman' and 'sameaswas', and that you and 'overthefalls' would be kindred spirits over a beer.
Yeh, got me some tall-man-back-shit. Every 2 years is the norm (whaddya reckon blackers?) always a week of slow-mo and a week or 'careful' for me. Watching Tigers smash Sturt at the moment. Could be worse.
I'll have a wander round the property, and look for some interesting bits for you. Beautiful time of year, but I'm distracted by just glaring at polygala atm. 600 Wilarn/YTBlacks flew over yesterday, heading to the coast. Didn't have any recording gear at the ready. No wind, would have been good.
Basesix. Thanks for the verbal lithium tablet (subtle metallic calmer that resets your equilibrium).
Your biota sounds really nice.
BTW. Yellow tailed Black Cockatoos are rapidly diminishing in numbers in Oz. The constant clearing of native vegetation thats home to trees that bear large seeds is a serious problem.
When you observe a 600+ flock as you said, thats probably all of the birds from a collective greater area in your region AW
Someone mentioned blowhards.
One Blowhard I saw many times would have been positive to the proposal. I’m sure.(hope)
Just a quick entry into the thread re: racial discrimination
"In Australia it is against the law to do something in public based on the race, colour, national or ethnic origin of a person or group of people which is likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate. This type of behaviour is classified as racial hatred."
https://www.australia.gov.au/helpstopracism
This definition has been really eye opening to me (1st generation immigrant) because the definition of racism widens to include national groups. I thought it was just racial group. In that case, for the first time in my life I've come to realise I copped some pretty extreme racism from the Australian kids growing up based on said grouping. And so did my dad in his work effectively stalling his career. Talking to friends of Argentinian and Spanish descent - they copped it too. I always thought that stuff was just abuse, and you overcome it and get stronger. I can see why my partner's father never bothered to get citizenship and my friend's grandfather never bothered to learn to speak the language.
Sorry to hear that VJ.
Still happening today in subtle ways
https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/should-you-change-your-name-to-get-a-job...
Supafreak wrote:basesix wrote:Haha, AW! VERY glad you dodged Joe Blake, I agree re healthy yard, stumpy/sleepy/shingles are out in force here last few days.
I reckon it is 'overthefalls' your apology would be directed at ; )Yes it was OTF that deserved the apology, it’s fun getting old eh AW
Supafreak. Yep, sometimes the old grey matter fails, I never write anything down, always relied on my memory my entire life.
The older we get, the more surfboards we want/need. Hope you are well.AW
AlfredWallace wrote:overthefalls wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:waveman wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:waveman wrote:https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/indigenous/auditorgeneral-urged-...
Waveman. Hi. Whats your motive here ? AW
Lots of Australian taxpayers wondering why $30 billion a year isn’t getting to those that need it the most.
Timely also given the concerns around the voice being ATSIC 2.0/son of ATSIC.
Waveman. Hi . I sincerely apologise for my spray the other day, as GF said, totally got my wires crossed, happens in this forum, you go cross-eyed regularly, forget who said what. No pain intended at all.
Well, cant waist that spray. Who can we give it to ?
All the best, sorry.AW
Hi AW. Your spray was directed at me, but I wasn’t offended because I knew you’d got mixed up. Waveman had posted a link to an article about fraud in an Aboriginal organisation and when you asked him what his motive was, I accused him of punching down.
OverThe Falls. Again, sincere apology, my gross error, flapping my mouth off. You know how it goes, excitement, blood pressure increases etc.
As I’ve mentioned previously, my dead grandmothers quote “Make sure brain is engaged before putting mouth into gear”. Well, she’d roll in her grave.
I was trying to reinforce the point for the fiftieth time, that corruption in business or political walks of life, is and will always exist.i.e
The fools on this forum who seem to think that it’s only applicable to FNP get under my skin, it really highlights their naivety, childishness and selfishness. Maybe I’m too sensitive or wear my heart on my sleeve.
It’s very immature to singularly target one particular group. AW
All good, AW.
VJ, seeds, yep, still goes on today, from both political ends
My son played me this (sure you've seen it, or similar):
(a moment to compliment your video posts VJ, always well chosen)
velocityjohnno wrote:Just a quick entry into the thread re: racial discrimination
"In Australia it is against the law to do something in public based on the race, colour, national or ethnic origin of a person or group of people which is likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate. This type of behaviour is classified as racial hatred."
https://www.australia.gov.au/helpstopracism
This definition has been really eye opening to me (1st generation immigrant) because the definition of racism widens to include national groups. I thought it was just racial group. In that case, for the first time in my life I've come to realise I copped some pretty extreme racism from the Australian kids growing up based on said grouping. And so did my dad in his work effectively stalling his career. Talking to friends of Argentinian and Spanish descent - they copped it too. I always thought that stuff was just abuse, and you overcome it and get stronger. I can see why my partner's father never bothered to get citizenship and my friend's grandfather never bothered to learn to speak the language.
Vj. Thanks for the facts. It should be our pursuit to rid Australia of those xenophobic behaviours, we can do better, it’s all about education, we keep saying that, must maintain the rage to do so. Critics will always declare that a minority will always behave that way, sadly. keep well. AW
Piss funny basesix
Always enjoyed reading your input on a variety of topics VJ , stay strong mate , don’t let the bastards get ya down.
My brother and I fought a lot, and I had an epihany after throwing a hammer or something, and decided I'd be non-violent. Big mistake. I should have taken the violence to school because we learned they respected that. If you were good at a sport you got accepted, too. But by the end of it, if you wanted it to stop you just restricted their air supply for long enough for them to understand your politely spoken viewpoint.
By the way guys, every time you take a shot a the poms or the English, you are having a shot at part of my ancestry, and also falling under the definition of racism above. FFS let the past be done, and live better, now.
No point scoring here... just the real deal is the eye opener for all Voice participants.
Most obvious & unusual difference between Aboriginal / Modern White Australia is our Age.
33.1% of Aboriginals are under age of 15 (vs) only 17.9% White / New Aussies
At the other end lies this other extreme...
5.4% of Aborigines represent over 65 yrs (vs) majority 17.2% White / New Aussies
Sadly we're all aware of remote health access issues in Large Continent...
But here's the anomaly...
Highest % of Aborigines live in Cities 40.8%
More Aborigines live in Regional Oz 33.8% than White New Aussies 25.2%
Only 15.4% Aborigines live in remote or very remote Oz.
Here's several ways Voting or a referendum further disadvantages Aboriginal People
(1)
Aborigines represent 3.2% of Oz Population but lose power with only 3.0% of Oz enrollment
Each referendum vote therefore will obviously further disenfranchise an Aboriginal Voice
(2)
20% of White / New Aussie Pop are Youth that can't Vote for Voice but are much less affected.
40% + more? of Aboriginal Pop are Youth that can't Vote for Voice but are #1 affected Voice age group
(3)
Aboriginal Fed Pollies over represent 4.8% of Fed parliament (vs) 3.2% of Fed pop.
Meaning Aborigines have far greater unusually biased chance of legislating a Voice of whatever design.
Further onto Aboriginal Youth Vote...one must consider that majority of Aborigines have zero Voice say!
Those in the know should inform that WA / Qld / NSW are likely denying majority of Aboriginal Voice!
Again..tbb claims that none..not even the UN give a shit to present this stark reality & order a halt.
Ask if most Aborigines can't Vote then why the fuck is everyone else deciding their fate.
At what point does a higher power step in & call out this pantomime Voice bullshit!
Here's the proof that most affected remote WA youth can never register to Vote.
Crew know Qld 12% & NSW 6% are not far behind in unregistered Aboriginal Births & all know why!
2016 No Official [ID] Birth Registration of Aboriginals Children in WA.
https://getinthepicture.org/sites/default/files/resources/Gibberd_et_al-...
18% Aboriginal Births are Not registered
54% Mother's of these new Mother's Births were also never registered
24% Mothers are themselves just Kidz under 16yrs
21% Child Mothers are disadvantaged
29% Child Mothers live "Very Remote"
22% Child Mothers Smoke
26% Child Mothers are Alcohol diagnosed
18% Child Mothers are Drug diagnosed
All can read why births to Child mothers born of Child mothers is never registered
All hell would break loose!
Recall 33.1% of Aborigines are under 15 years old doesn't include 18% youngest births
That's well over 50% of WA 15yrs Youth as Majority Pop & locked out of the current Voice.
Add in 16/17yrs + 6% registered non enrolled Youth / Adults = over 50% in WA / Qld & maybe NSW.
Also consider national % youth scale of these Aboriginal majority 74% pop bases.
Reckon Oz Pollies are outta their depth & blindly treading on hot coals with Adult's minority Voice!
Pollies are failing to tally non represented 18% of WA Aboriginal teen Mums not registered to Vote.
Nor are 54% of their 25-30 year old WA Aboriginal Mothers registered to Vote.
Because the moment they do register implicates their whole Village in underage crimes.
Just saying wot all here know > Most of Aboriginal population are banned from Voting in the Voice!
Reminding at wot point does the UN intervene & protect their rights from Mass Child Exploitation.
That's exactly wotz goin' down here & should be a disclaimer on all Vote Papers alerting to such!
I the Bloody Aussie Idiot wilfully vote knowing most Aboriginals can't.
Think tbb is having a lend...wait till these Majority Aboriginal Kidz come of age & sues the pants off ya!
You've all been warned...not saying yer acting childish just plain ignorant towards Aboriginal Youth!
PM must knowingly declare this reality or suffer his fate as most ignorant Oz Leader!
Referendum clearly prohibits the majority of Aboriginal group most affected.
Common sense dictates the PM must address this & inform all Voters with a Voice disclaimer!
Pretty sure 50% locked out Aboriginal Youth will accept & obey everything the Golden breed mandate!
Democracy demands that they must...we all cool like, all can live with hurling them, that raw prawn!
tbb is not even voting but will motion for Apology II.
I don’t doubt those early years were tough, VJ. You had to adapt but you were allowed to adapt. If that makes sense. FNP weren’t given that option. It was active segregation and subjugation.
Supafreak wrote:@AW
Trying to get through all of the comments from today and yesterday and must say this caption Supa is really funny! "Its windy today!" "So am I lets have a beer." Hahaha
I also have some apologising to do, just have to work out who to, hehe :)
Yeah seeds, and so this is where I weigh in on The Voice, what I will do.
Why I would vote Yes:
Our system works by including. It's over a thousand years of evolving law. There have been many bloody conflicts, and rights were won for people after the fight (eg Bill of Rights 1689). Imagine melding it with 60,000 years of customary law...
I've spent the last few weeks going through the racial situations and wars in southern and central Africa. I've looked into the history and legal evolution of South Africa, Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, Angola, the Congo, Kenya, Zambia, Mozambique... from what I can tell, a process of inclusion was demanded and there were various responses to it. My conclusion for Australia is it is better to fully include.
Why I would vote No:
This would be down to the nuts and bolts of the current proposal. Is it necessary to modify the constitution? Would defining Australians by racial group be a step toward inclusion or a step away from this? Would the nature of the proposal overcome any concerns of segregation under law?
Biases - the family background is very strong No, given where they are from. I'm still undecided.
Sounds like you are in a very thoughtful place VJ. Kudos to you for engaging in the proposal and researching your thoughts on such a level. Very respectful.
Vote Yes
^ tryin to work out if that is you in the gimp mask, subverting from within, or in the fedora taking the foo selfie ; )
Thanks for the reply
I would change racial group for first peoples that were deliberately left behind
This is the only positive proposal that may finally (not definitely) that has been developed in years. Developed by the potential beneficiaries of this. Let’s listen to them for once. There’s no equality issues. We lose nothing. They may catch up
if we change the system. If we accept we actively left them behind
“ tryin to work out if that is you in the gimp mask “ …haha
- here, an ode to burlz ;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUWaSBsb29rIGdvb2QgaW4gbGVhdGhlcg%3D%3D Jelly Flater wrote:“ tryin to work out if that is you in the gimp mask “ …haha
- here, an ode to burlz ;)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y4K0J3fPmw&pp=ygUWaSBsb29rIGdvb2QgaW4gbGV...
Great song Jelly.
basesix wrote:^ tryin to work out if that is you in the gimp mask, subverting from within, or in the fedora taking the foo selfie ; )
I'm 99% sure its harryCoopr
well played. re the research skills of the no voters.. ken bloody oath?
sameaswas wrote:$370billion + $100mill from business council of oz + $34billion per annum for fnp beaurocracy's
land councils allocateing govt monies willynilly, all of em cronies..mates of marcia and co.
no accountability, secrecy.i saw a video of ken bloody oath ystrday, he said "34billion dollrs a year on fnp's and they want a voice!"..."it's not a voice they need it's a fuckin audit they need!!....hahaha he cracked up laughing, me too.
basesix wrote:gee, he sounds a witty vaudevillian, I'm sure he'd do well on the RSL circuit up north with an afro wig and a chinaman's hat - thanks for your service re tax dollars sameaswas.
harrycoopr wrote:STILL NOT explaining how the voice will divide a nation?? Yr reading too much into it lowinfo
The answer hasn't changed since last time it was explained to you, if you dont get it by now, then i doubt you ever will.
southernraw wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:southernraw wrote:@lowinfo. It must be a hollow feeling being an anonymous online attention seeker.
Pity the foolMost people here are anonymous but you know who i am, many people here do i dont try to hide it like some do(not you) Ive pretty much said who i am without actually putting my name here.
There is nothing said here i wouldn't put my name too, these are my views and belief's and i stand by them, however not everything i say today might be something i always hold, ive changed my views and mind on things over the years, but i doubt i could ever on an idea like this.
BTW. Just because im vocal in sharing my view doesn't mean im seeking attention, i just feel strongly on the issue like you or others do.
This issue has an end date so im willing to go hard on it, not that i expect or aim to change anyone's mind, but i still thinks it good to have the views i support represented here.
Can you believe i've actually run out of insults for you!? The well has run dry.
Seems like this is your happy place, so go your hardest.
I just feel for any young indigenous surfer that happens to stumble across this thread and your pages of dribble that ultimately puts them back in the box you believe they belong in.
Enjoy your little platform lowinfo. It's not a thread i'm willing to put my name alongside while you continually drown out any reasonable conversation with your, buffoonery. There ya go. One last insult for you.
Id be far more worried about a young aboriginal surfer buying into the whole victim narrative you spin, if they listened to you they are already screwed before they begin, a victim of the past and that Australian's hate them or something, why bother.
If there does happen to be an Aboriginal grommet out there reading, id say to them, what ever you do NEVER buy into the victim narrative, you are NOT a product of the past, be it your people, your family or even your parents, you decided your own destiny, some of the highest achievers in life are people who have gone through the hardest of times or come from the darkest places
You can be anything just like any other Aussie, be positive look forward and not backwards, be proud of who your are and where you come from, but dont make it your whole identity or be obsessed with it, yeah sure once in a while you might come across some racist dick, if you do reply with friendliness and they wont know how to react, try winning then over with kindness, cause aggressiveness and further insults is what they expect or want.
And if you see me out in the water, say hi and when im on the inside the first of next set waves yours.
indo-dreaming wrote:Id be far more worried about a young aboriginal surfer buying into the whole victim narrative you spin, if they listened to you they are already screwed before they begin, a victim of the past and that Australian's hate them or something, why bother.
Bang on the money here Indo.
Alan Jones right there
Worried about aboriginal surfer. I’d be be more worried about you thinking you know best about aboriginal surfer
southernraw wrote:
Best thing you have ever said, totally agree.
the burleigh spirit has become strong in you, indo. much more effective.
indo-dreaming wrote:Id be far more worried about a young aboriginal surfer buying into the whole victim narrative you spin, if they listened to you they are already screwed before they begin, a victim of the past and that Australian's hate them or something, why bother.
If there does happen to be an Aboriginal grommet out there reading, id say to them, what ever you do NEVER buy into the victim narrative, you are NOT a product of the past, be it your people, your family or even your parents, you decided your own destiny, some of the highest achievers in life are people who have gone through the hardest of times or come from the darkest places
You can be anything just like any other Aussie, be positive look forward and not backwards, be proud of who your are and where you come from, but dont make it your whole identity or be obsessed with it, yeah sure once in a while you might come across some racist dick, if you do reply with friendliness and they wont know how to react, try winning then over with kindness, cause aggressiveness and further insults is what they expect or want.
And if you see me out in the water, say hi and when im on the inside the first of next set waves yours.
Great comment. That's the true spirit of Australia.
BSCM
According to who gsco? Shit, mate, I probably agree with you somewhere, but I don't have the arrogance to think we are the end-of-days people. We are still building the thing you love. Sorry, but we are mid-stream. If you've had some big calamity happen that makes you think things-were-better-when, I'm really sorry. But this living, moving, youthful thing that is Australia, it is still forming. Documents, pillars, beautiful-ideals-from-the-past, and all.
#someheroesdontwearcapes #keyboardwarrior #heyarentyouindofromswellnet #dandenongmarkets #shityourpantsinpublicandwriteaboutitonswellnet #lowinfo #dipshitdreaming #championofthec#nts
ta taa.
There you go, i knew you could do it, you hadn't run out of insults.
Each to their own but i kind of find the whole insult thing at bit pointless, it totally loses any effect when over used, IMHO its best saved for rare occasions when you really might need it to make a point.
Plus i think the whole insult, negativity towards people, hate thing, is worse for the persons mental health giving it than receiving it, it's just eats people up, you see it here sometimes people burn themselves out
I never let that happen to me, most of the time i can seperate differences in opinion to the people giving the opinion.
20 more days of this, so don't forget to pace yourself.
Kamahl was Voting [No] then [Yes]
Then Sunday Nite Project Live on air changes from [Yes] back to [No]
Cue the In-house cute [YES] Vid "Oopsie! Wait up! Wot you say!
So Wait....back up...yer sayin' ya just switcharoo'd back to [No] after tonite's [Yes!] Promo!
Kamahl : "Is that a problem!" + "Did I muck something up again!"
Next Week Kamahl is invited to the [Yeah / No] Camp! Maybe! Maybe Not Welcome there either!
KamahI : "Hope I've been some sorta Help!"(Priceless)
MC Hammer [YEAH] [YEAH] [YEAH]
Oz : [Yeah / Nah] F.U.
Oh Shit...Here comes the Kelly Gang & The [Neo] [NO] Nazis
Voice = Anti White (WTF)
Pfizer Prescription [ 5x Yes Doses ] ...Duck incoming...& F.U. Anti Vaxerz
Another relaxing lovely Sunday Outing at yer local Oz Park...& F.U.2!
https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/more-than-10000-expected-to-ra...
indo-dreaming wrote:harrycoopr wrote:STILL NOT explaining how the voice will divide a nation?? Yr reading too much into it lowinfo
The answer hasn't changed since last time it was explained to you, if you dont get it by now, then i doubt you ever will.
So allowing recognition of original inhabitants and an ADVISORY body will divide a nation... how does this work??
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28