The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
Is this satire? pic.twitter.com/kihJxUzKdm
— Seth Dillon (@SethDillon) October 25, 2023
sypkan wrote:yes
yes
yes
yes and no
yes... atm...they really could try a more precision strategy...
'elected' ...a long time ago...
the only hope is for an overthrow of power...
ain't gonna happen when israel is bombing the fuck out of em... all of em...
'...the enemy of my enemy and all that...'
the only 'sane' action I can see, is israel slowing things right down... right right down...
if they must 'invade' / incursion... do it very very slowly from the north, create 'safe' zones, give the palestiniam people options... to evacuate south... or, turn their backs on hamas, and choose the 'security' of israeli overlords...
pretty simplistic, and I'm clearly no military strategist... but you need to give people options...
none of this could possibly happen without an arab country mediator
israel are too impatient, bombing the fuck out of the place reeks of revenge and retribution too... that never works out... and, as many have pointed out, it will only amass and consilidate ill will... under yet another name...
a wise war person once said... 'another day of talking, is another day without war' ...and that's a good thing!
israel has more than made their point...
enough
for now...
This is a good post @sypkan. Cheers.
Man what an absolute nightmare over there.
Here's a great listen on Aint That Swell also with a couple of good interviews.
Some of Jed Smiths finest work i'd wager. Well done Smitty.
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/system-failure-sarah-palestine-and...
interesting...
Son of Hamas leader, Mosab Yousef sends a message in his own words to Western Palestine enjoyers. pic.twitter.com/9Pi2HEfDgl
— The opinionated Black woman ~ Aunty (@Theblackfemini3) October 28, 2023
word!
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This whole conflict, being played out more live than any in living history, has opened doors to reflection. Makes you think about all the conflict in one's own life and the way we all react differently....and how we're only really a few degrees of separation from it turning into a similar real life horror, should circumstances align. How we'd treat each other in similar circumstances.
It all starts on our own doorstep and i reckon personally, i blow up at crew here because they just can't see the obvious thing that i see.
But what i'm learning from the sidelines of all this...is, seeing is a matter of perspective.
I'm personally gonna take a bit of a deep dive into reflection in the hope that small improvements at home have a larger ripple effect on the wider world.
And if i've sunk the boot in with over the top reactionary words, i apologise.
I feel like right now it's a time that we embrace the good in each other and don't engage in the polarising combative nature that arises when we search for the bad.
People less privileged than us are waking up to a bomb exploding outside their homes like violent thunder right now.
Sorry for the hippy rant.
Peace out motherfuckers.
Blow it out your arse, hippy.
;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUYdGhlIGN1cmUga2lsbGluZyBhbiBhcmFi
indo-dreaming wrote:This video makes total sense, maybe Its a good sign they are taking so long to go in.
I was thinking about something in regards to why the IDF would want to go into Gaza by ground.
While they cant go clear out every building like this video says, they can go to highly suspected locations that they cant bomb, for instance i saw on the news tonight of a hospital that below it is suppose to be a key hamas base, so they could go sus it out, and the surrounding buildings and raid these location's trying to find tunnels that lead to it.
Im betting they would also be keeping track of locations where each rockets is launched from and while they can move around rockets to launch where ever hamas wan,t over time there would be clear hot spots which would then give a good indication to areas where rockets are stored, they could then search these areas find tunnels where they are stockpiled then clear out civilians and send in air strikes to take these stockpiles out, or blow them up themselves.
These are all pretty obvious thing's really, im surprised he never mentioned it in the video.
seeds wrote:Blow it out your arse, hippy.
:-D
haha, you guys..
anyone going to numbskulls, where's the pope?, meanies, next friday? ..sold out in seconds!
Indo - I am guessing he covered that stuff in a previous video .
It's their shield .
The tunnels are also strategically placed .
Apparently , 100km built in the last 18 moths .
Gazillions have been spent and they are very good .
Not sure if a big bunker bomb ( think Taliban Cave ) can shake them .
The Israeli's will smoke them out , after they trap them .
Nice one SR!
Pop Down wrote:Indo - I am guessing he covered that stuff in a previous video .
It's their shield .
The tunnels are also strategically placed .
Apparently , 100km built in the last 18 moths .
Gazillions have been spent and they are very good .
Not sure if a big bunker bomb ( think Taliban Cave ) can shake them .
The Israeli's will smoke them out , after they trap them .
Yeah i know all that watched many videos on the tunnels.
I also saw some recent videos on the equipment they have to deal with them have all kinds of stuff like ground radar to find them and all these robot type stuff to send in and they have these thing's called sponge bombs that are like a two part foam mix that fills the whole tunnel height so they can block a tunnel quickly, for example if they are in tunnel and ambushed.
Really good post there SR - it's about finding that common ground and humanity when you have the situation/opportunity to do so.
I can see in an update that Israeli armour is in north Gaza, it seems from the linked videos here they are in the semi rural areas just inside the border. Interesting vid among it of military bulldozers flattening the dune landscape just in from the northern sea border (mines? clearing roads?). Mentioned is that Israeli policy seems to be - find a booby trapped house, just blow it up. The landscape appears to be heading toward levelled. If you have a squizz at the site linked you will presently see articles where Netanyahoo is comparing it to a 2nd war of Independence, etc.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ground-forces-hit-hamas-as-idf-warns-north...
Locally we have all peoples of all beliefs and races free to enjoy a beautiful calm day with very small waves perfect for learners. Long may that continue.
Erdogan said in a speech to 100k last night "I said in Davos , you know how to kill . They know well how to kill . "
Will also declare Israel as a War Criminal .
Remember the US election .
The biggest game !!!? in November .
The Davos Crowd don't care who gets elected , anywhere .
So long as it is a Politician !
They know how to deal with them .
No-one would start WW3 to stop a US Presidential election , would they ?
Surely , this could not be a part of of any Master Plan ?
Biden said in the 80's , I think , if Israel didn't exist , we would have to invent one .
The US need and use Israel , and Israel love it .
It keeps them ( usually ) relatively safe , so a good deal .
I think the Democrat Leadership realise Biden is too old to be President for another 4 year term .
Why is there no-one being groomed , in public , to take on Trump in November ?
Why leave things this late ?
A lot of things aren't adding up atm imho .
Who gets to say 8k dead? Is this a Hamas figure? They are known to lie and make stuff up.
Eqypt, a fellow muslim nation, keeps the Rafah gates closed and allows zero Palestinians to escape death.
https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israelhamas-war-full-force-hug...
I still think Israel should cease fire and negotiate hostage releases…Israel does not appear to care about foreign or their own citizens held hostage, which is really surprising to me.
Another bloody good question , perhaps , Roady .
The group of Palestinians that strongly support Hamas and are in Gasa ,have been like gypsies for ages .
Following ( or being followed by ) Hamas .
None of the other Arab countries were willing to take them in at the start , and , now at the end .
The Israeli's have been left to finalise the situation , at a time , NOT of their choosing , by everyone else , it seems .
They might pause , but they won't stop , this time .
A tragedy .
Why ?
Another bloody pawn in this f..ken perverted Game of Power imho !!!
I wonder what piece on a chessboard Ukraine is ?
Just a pawn imho .
The good thing about this Game of Power is that the players will sacrifice too many pawns , eventually .
I don't think Putin or China plays games with the West .
( correction - they do play games with the West but with their own rules and conditions )
The Russian people don't !
They will then have to start looking at the important pieces ( themselves ) .
Luckily , they won't get to that stage of the game .
The spectators will realise it's a Game and throw OVER the board in horror and , dangerously for the players , anger .
Then the game will start again , probably .
We are humans and love playing games .
…cometh the hour
…cometh the man
;);)
https://m.
JF - Mate ???
I , and U , have been seriously commenting on this thread .
Looked at your video thinking it sounded hopeful and grateful my name was off the Main page ( strange feeling as its anon :) .
Thought Obama had got involved !
F Me - I see some bloke who fn looks ( if he had grey hair ) , acts , dances and sounds just like fn me .
Put - Gone Surfing , instead of Jesus , on the jumper and he is a fn dead ringer imho .
Please , stop taking the piss and being such a flathead , maybe :)
Pop Up ( I wish I could :)something serious , quickly . please .
no one supporting Hamas?
Why I Just Quit Democratic Socialists of America
"...As the new hard-line caucuses gained influence, the issue of Palestine became ever more important in DSA’s internal political culture. In 1982, when DSA began, support for Labor Zionism was widespread in its ranks. But over the next several decades, the Labor Party faded as a political force in Israel to be replaced by right-wing Zionists, and the prospects for a “two-state” solution to the Palestinian question evaporated. I doubt if many DSAers today would describe themselves as Zionists of any stripe, although many (at least many of my acquaintance), remain committed to Israel’s right to exist as well as its right—within limits that it too often violates—to defend its national security. In any case, there are few if any DSAers, veterans as well as newcomers, who are not critics of Israel’s repressive policies in the West Bank and Gaza.
But that doesn’t account for the singularly important role of Palestine in DSA’s rather short list of international concerns, completely overshadowing the attention paid, for example, to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, or to the rights of other oppressed peoples, like the Kurdish Muslims, or China’s Uyghur Muslims. Concern for Palestine, entirely legitimate in itself, also served other purposes for DSA’s new sectarian leadership, furnishing a convenient stick to beat DSA’s moderate wing if it wasn’t willing to embrace the most extreme positions on the Palestinian question—up to and including denying Israel’s right to continued existence.
Starting as far back as the 2017 national convention, chants of “From the River to the Sea, Palestine Will Be Free” began to be heard at DSA gatherings, and support for the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement targeting Israel became a litmus test within the organization for political purity. For the sectarians, discrediting elected DSAers who fail that test helps to move the organization closer to the desired break with the Democratic Party. There was a serious push within DSA to sanction or even expel Representative Bowman for voting to approve United States funding for Israel’s Iron Dome missile-defense system, and for traveling to Israel in 2021 on a trip sponsored by the liberal Zionist (and pro-Palestinian rights) group J Street. (The effort failed, but Bowman quietly let his membership to DSA lapse in 2022—chalk one up for the “partyists.”)
Which brings us to the events of early October, which will not require an elaborate retelling, except for those who spent the last several weeks on the dark side of the moon. Hamas, a fanatic right-wing religious fundamentalist group committed to the destruction of Israel and the expulsion of its Jewish population, launched its offensive in the early morning hours of October 7, murdering, torturing, raping, or kidnapping those unfortunate enough to encounter its marauders. Bernie Sanders responded the same day declaring, “I absolutely condemn the horrifying attack on Israel by Hamas and Islamic Jihad. There is no justification for this violence, and innocent people on both sides will suffer hugely because of it. It must end now.” Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez responded as well, saying, “I condemn Hamas’ attack in the strongest possible terms. No child and family should ever endure this kind of violence and fear, and this violence will not solve the ongoing oppression and occupation in the region.”
DSA’s National Political Committee did not agree with the two most prominent democratic socialists in American public life. Its statement on October 7 made no mention—let alone offering any criticism—of Hamas, declaring instead, “Today’s events are a direct result of Israel’s apartheid regime—a regime that receives billions in funding from the United States.” That same day the New York City DSA chapter urged its members to attend a rally in midtown Manhattan called for the following day by another left-wing group under the slogan “All Out for Palestine.” At that event, on October 8, not 24 hours after the attack, one speaker would giddily note the slaughter by Hamas of hundreds of young Israelis attending a concert in approving terms: “[T]he resistance came in electrified hang gliders and took at least several dozen hipsters.” That got a big laugh. There probably weren’t a lot of DSAers in the audience, and no DSAers spoke from the podium, but the damage was done—and not undeserved. Politically, you’re judged by the company you keep.
Worse was to come at DSA’s state and local levels. Connecticut DSA tweeted on October 8, “Yesterday, the Palestinian resistance launched an unprecedented anti-colonial struggle,” without providing any of the messy details as to what that “struggle” involved. San Francisco DSA issued a statement on October 9 declaring, “Socialists support the Palestinian people’s, and all people’s, right to resist and fight for their own liberation. This weekend’s events are no different.” Seattle DSA circulated a “toolkit” for responding to the events of October 7 produced by a group calling itself the “National BDS & Palestine Solidarity Working Group,” including a list of demands, the first two of which read:
End ALL US aid to Israel. Not just military aid—all aid to Israel supports the colonization of Palestine and continued violence against Palestinians.
Decolonization—from the river to the sea. Not just Gaza and the West Bank, we want all of ’48.
Under the toolkit’s heading “Messaging Guidance,” DSAers were instructed that, “liberating colonized land is a real process that requires confrontation by any means necessary.… Resistance comes in all forms—armed struggle, general strikes, and popular demonstrations. All of it is legitimate, and all of it is necessary.” As for those killed on October 7, the authors explained matter-of-factly, “Settlers are not ‘civilians’ in the sense of international law, because they are military assets used to ensure continued control over stolen Palestinian land.”
There were many eloquent responses to DSA’s all-but-explicit endorsement of Hamas’s horrifying atrocities, including those by Michelle Goldberg in The New York Times, and Joshua Leifer in Dissent. But the one I’d like to highlight is from comedian, writer, and actor Sarah Silverman, posted on her Instagram account on October 8, after reading the National Political Committee’s initial response to the events of the previous day:
The DSA of which I was a proud lifetime member, has lost me forever… Over 1000 slaughtered as of now. Girls raped over the bodies of their friends. These are kids, babies, children, teens, elderly, many of whom like my family march in the streets nightly protesting Netanyahu and the occupation THAT’S WHO HAMAS MURDERED you FUCKS. knowing Israel@will retaliate- do you get that they don’t give a FUCK about Palestinian lives?????
So why am I quitting DSA? There are many reasons. But in the end, the most important comes down to the Sarah Silverman Rule #1 for Judging One’s Political Associates. An organization that can’t take a stand condemning a right-wing terrorist group that set out to murder as many Jewish civilians, including children and infants, as it can lay its hands on, has forfeited the right to call itself democratic socialist. It has, as Sarah says “lost me forever.”
https://www.persuasion.community/p/why-i-just-quit-democratic-socialists...
Roadkill wrote:I still think Israel should cease fire and negotiate hostage releases…Israel does not appear to care about foreign or their own citizens held hostage, which is really surprising to me.
It seems like this is now way beyond a hostage situation for Israel. In their eyes it is a fight for their nation's survival or, at minimum, a fight for any sort of normalcy going forward - .i.e. that without going all in to destroy Hamas, October 7 style attacks would just happen on a regular basis. No settlement anywhere near the border would be safe with Hamas functional.
I doubt whether ceasefire or any form of negotiations is even being discussed.
The discussions in Israel's war room would be about flooding tunnels (water + sewerage), how much of Gaza to turn to rubble, escalation risks and facilitating other "opportunities" such as the one state solution:
"Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi made his toughest remarks yet on Wednesday, saying the current war was not just aimed at fighting Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip, “but also an attempt to push the civilian inhabitants to ... migrate to Egypt.”
There are huge ramifications for Israel's reputation in the world going forward. But in an interview with a former Israeli PM I saw, he said they spent 20 years trying to play by the rules of world public opinion and being cautious led to October 7. So they will not be very cautious or risk / casualty / reputation damage averse going forward.
Plus the big geopolitical players are at work - not necessarily to resolve the crisis.
Tinderbox.
How's the net worth these 'leaders' have...
(whilst not even living in gaza)
Hamas explained in 1 minute: pic.twitter.com/fpwNYj8C8Y
— Imam of Peace (@Imamofpeace) October 28, 2023
Even babaganoush knows it’s all fun and games…
- until the zohan is unleashed ;)
https://m.
https://m.
Most of the possible players have mostly been mentioned on this thread since I have been watching .
All the countries and their payers abbreviations I have seen .
eg USA , FBI , CIA DOJ etc .
I mentioned the Davos crowd .
Individuals like Soros and Gates and Big Money are playing , with mates imo .
Not FOX ( no media or Internet except disinformation content from the players ) !
Not Trump .
Some possible other players - UN ( joking ) - in alphabetical order -Aliens ? , BRIC's , ECB , EU ,FED , NATO , OPEC , SWIFT , Universal Spirit and WEF .
The main Global players have powerful connections , everywhere .
I can't think of anyone else atm .
https://www.mrctv.org/videos/simpsons-whistlers-father-zoo
(clowns to the left of you, jokers to the right today @pops,
and on the sabbath, too!)
6
U should have added another song in the middle ( if that is where U have me ) - The Joker .
More apt imho as have nfi .
My name is not Maurice , am a smoker ( not at midnight ) , and lovey lovey all the time , when I'm not grumpy .
Can play the tambourine , to , I think .
I just read a lot .
Also I like the the song more :)
Going surfing in a week for three weeks .
Will end up on the Goldy , so please be careful .
I have a knack for getting into the strangest situations ( trouble , no violence , yet haha ) .
My training has been consistent ( poor ) . Almost ready to try a burpee ( won't as might injure myself ) .
Thinking of waiting till the last day to surf , to get through the Surfing Trip , injury free :)
To see a group of truely dedicated individuals , of all different nationalities ( both sex's ) , work together , to create the most beautiful moment , guided by a gentle , unassuming but extremely demanding conductor , I call up on UTube - Morricone conducts Morricone The mission Gabriel's Oboe ) .
An oldy ( like me ) , but get's me very time .
Warnings not heeded. Israeli suveillance watched them training for a long time.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/surveillance-soldiers-warned-of-hamas-acti...
Comments below the article speculate as to why.
In any big event these days something always seems to be weird and does not make sense.
Incompetence is very common among the supposed experts but the meddlers and schemers try to have fingers in every pie and leave a trail.
Hamas are 100% scumbags.
https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/only-the-healthy-are-released-...
100% agree @roadkill.
I can't help but wonder, hypothetically, if the Palestinian people (not Hamas) launched just one rocket back over the fence and took out 500 Israelis, how different would the worlds media and politicians rhetoric be?
It seems like every rocket that Israel sends into Gaza that causes absolute devastation is met with little regard. Almost like they can get away with anything they like without oppostion. It's appalling.
Hamas suck. Zionists suck. Everyday Palestinians, everyday Jewish people and the Christians in Israel are victims of this ongoing power play the west supports.
?si=2PNIXPWJzGrvY7R0 The west creates what it gets. Stop fuelling this fire. This guy gets it. Hamas wasn’t created in a vacuum. I’d expect it was created under the same circumstances the Nazis in Germany were. Once you got em fuck me it’s hard to get rid of em. The west kicking own goals as usual. The problem is no one in the west suffers. Ever. Easier to agree that they’re the bad guys with ongoing prosperity.
seeds
As the players influence the US and Europe not sure if it's a East /West thing .
More like North/South imho .
South is often defined now as China and 67ish countries south of the equator ( all similar , economically , with China 20-30 years ahead ) ex Oz , NZ and another country or 2 , I think I have forgotten .
udo wrote:Fark no
https://www.timesofisrael.com/rioters-overrun-russian-airport-in-hunt-fo...
farking nutters...spreading their militant religious bs.
Food for thought. No blinkers now.
Go Woke™️
"Much of the justification for killing civilians is based on a fashionable ideology, 'decolonization,' which, taken at face value, rules out the negotiation of two states ... and is as dangerous as it is false," @simonmontefiore writes: https://t.co/SkSyDcY34e
— The Atlantic (@TheAtlantic) October 28, 2023
A striking feature of polling is the generational divide, with younger people far more likely to be hostile to Israel than older people. This is true from the U.S. to France. If you are wondering why, I have a piece you might want to read: https://t.co/LIcOlNZNBt
— Niall Ferguson (@nfergus) October 29, 2023
good validation of andy-mac's post, @ green room, cheers
andy-mac wrote:https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy51jEnR2ME/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Apologies if this vid's already been shared.
A former IDF soldier.
Its from 6 years ago....but it's all in here.
Brilliant interview and i tip my hat to the fella who would be one of few i'd imagine to stand alone and speak this truth.
Well worth a watch.
This one's a longer watch, but brilliant nonetheless.
A jew who survived the holocaust discussing things in a rational and forward thinking way.
Highly educational.
Can't emphasize enough how worthwhile the video above of Dr Gabor is worth anyones time to watch.
Would be the singlemost impactful video i've possibly ever seen and contains so much knowledge of this conflict.
If it resonates (hate that hippy word) with you, share share share!
s/r , as U rec it I will check it out .
I saw a beautiful protest for Palestine , today .
In the atrium of the building I work ( sometimes ) in .
A group of about 60-80 young Australians . Long ( clean ) haired Uni students , perhaps .
Could hear some chanting ( was thinking "United We Stand " stuff ) but is was pro Palestine .
A girl with a speaker leading positive chants of Free Palestine , Peace not War stuff .
I liked it .
They all looked like that they had thought about the issue .
I remembered when things were more black and white .
With too much looking into the early sun , wave hunting , my len's have changed .
There is now three sides to most problems , one side , the other side and the Truth .
I started knowing nothing ( other than mums boob was my target ), and now know , I know nothing .
The more u know , the more u don't know :)
As I get older , I think less of the future ( dying is part of it :))).
I would not want a crystal ball .
I believe humans are great ( the bloody Car !!! ) and Mother Earth will check us out again , in 10 years or so , and think , gosh ! Those little girls and guys are so smart ! Look what the have done , now .
We are her favourites imho .
When we leave , in a blink of her eye , we will be gone , and there will be no sign we were here .
She will miss us and remember us fondly , I think .
Go surfing .
Great post @popdown and thankyou.
Really appreciate your thoughts and yeah, same here, the more you know the less you know.
Being really careful of how i choose my words on this both here and on my own social media platforms, especially as there's people who are living it that i could add further burden to their already heavy hearts.
I'm embarassed by how little i knew about what's been going on over there over the years.
I also can only endeavor to learn more, pass on messages, and mostly just shut up and let those with more knowledge than me speak.
Might b my turn to pop down :-P
btw. Should note, i've been stuck at home with the flu the last week and a bit, so way more time than normal to look into all this and to spend enormous amounts of time reflecting on it...plus no surf time! Hope to remedy that last part in the next few days.
S/R
If I think U need to Pop Down , I will let U know :)
I have real trouble shutting up :), A real chatterbox !
I have a track record of not choosing words , as wisely as I would like , upon reflection .
That pausing , when agitated stuff, I might get , one day .
I never did it on the footy fields , I think :)
We all make mistakes :)
Sounds like U learn from them :)))
Have U tried some Jewish medicine , as a remedy ?
Chicken soup works imho !
I will be surfing , I hope , next week .
It has been too long since I have been in the ocean .
Was never baptised but feel it helps clean my soul ( whatever that is ) .
If you pause at 4.53 you will see Israels Iron Dome defense system in action when it is not in a complacent mood.
https://iview.abc.net.au/video/NC2329H014S00
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