The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
southernraw wrote:Who said that @roadkill? That's pretty scathing. I hope you can back up your claims. Perhaps copy and paste the exact transcript?
Go back and read the thread. I’m not copy n pasting for you.
I've read it the whole way through.
The only time i've seen something along those lines is Indo yesterday proclaiming if you don't think Israel have the right to bomb the shit out of Palestine, then you support Hamas.
Any other examples?? Where's the posts supporting Hamas?
southernraw wrote:I've read it the whole way through.
The only time i've seen something along those lines is Indo yesterday proclaiming if you don't think Israel have the right to bomb the shit out of Palestine, then you support Hamas.
Any other examples?? Where's the posts supporting Hamas?
He cannot copy and paste as there has not been any.
Just trolling, let it go.
andy-mac wrote:southernraw wrote:I've read it the whole way through.
The only time i've seen something along those lines is Indo yesterday proclaiming if you don't think Israel have the right to bomb the shit out of Palestine, then you support Hamas.
Any other examples?? Where's the posts supporting Hamas?He cannot copy and paste as there has not been any.
Just trolling, let it go.
Funny who you call out for trolling. Yet, happy to let all that have the same bias as you troll away.
Get some consistency, Andy.
Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:southernraw wrote:I've read it the whole way through.
The only time i've seen something along those lines is Indo yesterday proclaiming if you don't think Israel have the right to bomb the shit out of Palestine, then you support Hamas.
Any other examples?? Where's the posts supporting Hamas?He cannot copy and paste as there has not been any.
Just trolling, let it go.Funny who you call out for trolling. Yet, happy to let all that have the same bias as you troll away.
Get some consistency, Andy.
I await your copy and pasted evidence! :)
Road Dill, are you the one who posted that fucked up video a few days ago?
Nobody here is supporting Hamas. There are plenty of people supporting the murder of innocent Palestine children and women including yourself.
War sucks. Period.
Yep....the only person on this thread who seems to actually get off on seeing all the death is the dill who's posting vids of people getting killed.
Go away you ugly human.
burleigh wrote:Road Dill, are you the one who posted that fucked up video a few days ago?
Nobody here is supporting Hamas. There are plenty of people supporting the murder of innocent Palestine children and women including yourself.
War sucks. Period.
burleigh, just like supporting Israel’’s rights to defend itself is not supporting the deaths of Palestinians.
"There are plenty of people supporting the murder of innocent Palestine children and women including yourself."
There you go southernraw and Andy. burleigh had just said that my support for Israel to defend itself is me supporting the murder of innocent children and woman.
I look forward to you calling burleigh out.
southernraw wrote:Yep....the only person on this thread who seems to actually get off on seeing all the death is the dill who's posting vids of people getting killed.
Go away you ugly human.
"Who said that @roadkill? That's pretty scathing." You say it.
you say that about me...yet I am the ugly human?
I can never tell if you're really really stupid @roadkill, or just an extremely good troll.
I think it's a combination of both.
southernraw wrote:I can never tell if you're really really stupid @roadkill, or just an extremely good troll.
I think it's a combination of both.
and when provided the evidence you wanted...you ignore it? To not condemn it is to support it.
I wonder if Andy has the balls to call it out now he has the facts?
I wonder what frame of mind one must live in to think it's a great idea to post a video to a surfing website of people getting killed. That's a special kind of ugly.
You're definitely the worst kind of human.
Add nothing to conversations, troll away, get people banned because eventually they just have enough and let loose on you.
Meanwhile, there's a war going on and right now innocent people, both sides are getting killed. People are living in horror.
But unfortunately, as always, it's reduced to roadkill and his special needs on swellnet. Fuck off idiot.
southernraw wrote:I wonder what frame of mind one must live in to think it's a great idea to post a video to a surfing website of people getting killed. That's a special kind of ugly.
You're definitely the worst kind of human.
Add nothing to conversations, troll away, get people banned because eventually they just have enough and let loose on you.
Meanwhile, there's a war going on and right now innocent people, both sides are getting killed. People are living in horror.
But unfortunately, as always, it's reduced to roadkill and his special needs on swellnet. Fuck off idiot.
Swearing and name calling and implying that I support murder does not do you any good southernraw.
go take a walk or something
Roadkill wrote:southernraw wrote:I can never tell if you're really really stupid @roadkill, or just an extremely good troll.
I think it's a combination of both.and when provided the evidence you wanted...you ignore it? To not condemn it is to support it.
I wonder if Andy has the balls to call it out now he has the facts?
Yeah it takes balls for me to call you out on an anonymous surf website!
Geez grow up.
andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:southernraw wrote:I can never tell if you're really really stupid @roadkill, or just an extremely good troll.
I think it's a combination of both.and when provided the evidence you wanted...you ignore it? To not condemn it is to support it.
I wonder if Andy has the balls to call it out now he has the facts?
Yeah it takes balls for me to call you out on an anonymous surf website!
Geez grow up.
You asked for proof, Andy, I gave it to you.
so you also will ignore when shown what you wanted. Again, to not condemn it is to support it.
Roadkill wrote:southernraw wrote:I wonder what frame of mind one must live in to think it's a great idea to post a video to a surfing website of people getting killed. That's a special kind of ugly.
You're definitely the worst kind of human.
Add nothing to conversations, troll away, get people banned because eventually they just have enough and let loose on you.
Meanwhile, there's a war going on and right now innocent people, both sides are getting killed. People are living in horror.
But unfortunately, as always, it's reduced to roadkill and his special needs on swellnet. Fuck off idiot.Swearing and name calling and implying that I support murder does not do you any good southernraw.
go take a walk or something
Good idea!!!!
Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:southernraw wrote:I can never tell if you're really really stupid @roadkill, or just an extremely good troll.
I think it's a combination of both.and when provided the evidence you wanted...you ignore it? To not condemn it is to support it.
I wonder if Andy has the balls to call it out now he has the facts?
Yeah it takes balls for me to call you out on an anonymous surf website!
Geez grow up.You asked for proof, Andy, I gave it to you.
so you also will ignore when shown what you wanted. Again, to not condemn it is to support it.
Ok I'll bite.
Copy and paste something posted before I made the comment.
I'm not supporting anything mate except the hope that the shit show that seems to be getting started in the ME comes to a speedy conclusion with minimal loss of innocent human life, whether Israeli, Palestinian, Bedouin or whatever. Everyone's blood is red, and all mothers will grieve the loss of their children.
Unfortunately, things look like they will get a lot worse for all before it gets better.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/23/pentagon-military-advisers...
;)
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Obama warns some of Israel’s actions in Gaza may backfire
Wires
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Some of Israel’s actions in its war against Hamas, like cutting off food and water for Gaza, could “harden Palestinian attitudes for generations” and weaken international support for Israel, former US president Barack Obama has warned.
In rare comments on an active foreign policy crisis, Obama said any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs of the war could be counterproductive.
“The world is watching closely as events in the region unfold, and any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs could ultimately backfire.”
“The Israeli government’s decision to cut off food, water and electricity to a captive civilian population (in Gaza) threatens not only to worsen a growing humanitarian crisis; it could further harden Palestinian attitudes for generations, erode global support for Israel, play into the hands of Israel’s enemies, and undermine long-term efforts to achieve peace and stability in the region,” Obama said.
Israel has heavily bombarded Gaza with air strikes since Hamas’ October 7 assault on Israel left over 1400 people dead. Israel’s air strikes have killed more than 5000 Palestinians, Gaza officials say.
Obama condemned Hamas’ attack and reiterated his support for Israel’s right to defend itself, while cautioning about risks to civilians in such wars.
Reuters
Roadkill wrote:Obama warns some of Israel’s actions in Gaza may backfire
WiresShare post
Some of Israel’s actions in its war against Hamas, like cutting off food and water for Gaza, could “harden Palestinian attitudes for generations” and weaken international support for Israel, former US president Barack Obama has warned.In rare comments on an active foreign policy crisis, Obama said any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs of the war could be counterproductive.
“The world is watching closely as events in the region unfold, and any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs could ultimately backfire.”
“The Israeli government’s decision to cut off food, water and electricity to a captive civilian population (in Gaza) threatens not only to worsen a growing humanitarian crisis; it could further harden Palestinian attitudes for generations, erode global support for Israel, play into the hands of Israel’s enemies, and undermine long-term efforts to achieve peace and stability in the region,” Obama said.
Israel has heavily bombarded Gaza with air strikes since Hamas’ October 7 assault on Israel left over 1400 people dead. Israel’s air strikes have killed more than 5000 Palestinians, Gaza officials say.
Obama condemned Hamas’ attack and reiterated his support for Israel’s right to defend itself, while cautioning about risks to civilians in such wars.
Reuters
I think most of us (I say most!!) worked that out after the first 500 bombs were dropped.
garyg1412 wrote:Roadkill wrote:Obama warns some of Israel’s actions in Gaza may backfire
WiresShare post
Some of Israel’s actions in its war against Hamas, like cutting off food and water for Gaza, could “harden Palestinian attitudes for generations” and weaken international support for Israel, former US president Barack Obama has warned.In rare comments on an active foreign policy crisis, Obama said any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs of the war could be counterproductive.
“The world is watching closely as events in the region unfold, and any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs could ultimately backfire.”
“The Israeli government’s decision to cut off food, water and electricity to a captive civilian population (in Gaza) threatens not only to worsen a growing humanitarian crisis; it could further harden Palestinian attitudes for generations, erode global support for Israel, play into the hands of Israel’s enemies, and undermine long-term efforts to achieve peace and stability in the region,” Obama said.
Israel has heavily bombarded Gaza with air strikes since Hamas’ October 7 assault on Israel left over 1400 people dead. Israel’s air strikes have killed more than 5000 Palestinians, Gaza officials say.
Obama condemned Hamas’ attack and reiterated his support for Israel’s right to defend itself, while cautioning about risks to civilians in such wars.
Reuters
I think most of us (I say most!!) worked that out after the first 500 bombs were dropped.
I will email Reuters and Obama and let them know garyg already knew this.
Roadkill wrote:garyg1412 wrote:Roadkill wrote:Obama warns some of Israel’s actions in Gaza may backfire
WiresShare post
Some of Israel’s actions in its war against Hamas, like cutting off food and water for Gaza, could “harden Palestinian attitudes for generations” and weaken international support for Israel, former US president Barack Obama has warned.In rare comments on an active foreign policy crisis, Obama said any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs of the war could be counterproductive.
“The world is watching closely as events in the region unfold, and any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs could ultimately backfire.”
“The Israeli government’s decision to cut off food, water and electricity to a captive civilian population (in Gaza) threatens not only to worsen a growing humanitarian crisis; it could further harden Palestinian attitudes for generations, erode global support for Israel, play into the hands of Israel’s enemies, and undermine long-term efforts to achieve peace and stability in the region,” Obama said.
Israel has heavily bombarded Gaza with air strikes since Hamas’ October 7 assault on Israel left over 1400 people dead. Israel’s air strikes have killed more than 5000 Palestinians, Gaza officials say.
Obama condemned Hamas’ attack and reiterated his support for Israel’s right to defend itself, while cautioning about risks to civilians in such wars.
Reuters
I think most of us (I say most!!) worked that out after the first 500 bombs were dropped.
I will email Reuters and Obama and let them know garyg already knew this.
Thanks buddy!!
I'd tell him myself but I don't have his email address :)
gsco wrote:Most people in here seem to support the idea that Hamas can get away with what it did consequence free as though it was justified and fair revenge, with no retaliation from Israel as though Israel deserves it for being an oppressor settler-occupier state backed by the evil US.
They seem only interested in abusing and defaming Israel and its actions over the past say 70 years and then its current retaliation, while completely overlooking the actions of the other party as though they are ok, understandable, fair revenge against Israel and justified, and not at all out of the ordinary, and indeed as though this other party is an innocent victim of the West/US.
They also seemed to have thought that there was this thing, a nation-state called Palestine, that has been existing peacefully and harmoniously in the area for millennia and that the UK/US then created and imposed on these innocent people an oppressive settler-occupier state whose hidden agenda is to ethnically cleanse the area via mass genocide and whose people all came from “somewhere else” where they weren’t wanted.
This is what I simply couldn’t understand and am shocked by about the reaction in much of the West, particularly on uni campuses, these forums, by the progressive left, etc: pure Israel hate and antisemitism mixed up with US/West hate, a complete overlooking or indeed justifying and in many cases celebrating the actions of Hamas as fair revenge, a complete ignorance to history, some bizarre Marxism driven settler-occupier-oppressor ideology, an ignorance to how the conflict follows from the past say 1,000 years of history in the region and how it fits in with the current shifting balance of power on the planet.
It’s also out of step with the views and reaction of the West: Australia, UK, US, EU, etc.
Some people really need to spend a solid amount of time staring in the mirror.
100%
Z rezident egzpertz are togezzer 100% egzpert kingz of z lunchballz… zay luv to lunchball each uzzer wif z idea zat zay haz all z answerz, but zay iz juzt a cpl of pwetenderz ;)
Vell done, but u iz no egzpertz… and u haz… no ballz .
- and no vun iz anti juice ;)
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The Dill wants someone charged with murder if his mum caught Covid off them, but is all good with this.
@ Jelly brain
It's 2023 no need for the accent you you can be an antisemitic Jew hating piece of trash without it these days.
The typing with an accent is just the funniest thing, it’s rolling around on the floor stuff. Edgy stuff Jelly.
Haha ;)
U guys must enjoy getting butthurt ;);)
- try not to stutter lowinfo, everyone loves juice…
And elephants ;)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlement....
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Oohhh, jelly…go on..type with the accent..it’s a crack up. :)
@andy-mac & Dandandan (directed at you guys as you guys can actually have a proper conversation without insults etc)
Im curious what do you think Israel should do now in regard to Hamas?
Surely they cant just walk away and let it be?,
If they do the rockets will just continue and the risk of another attack in the future will be higher especially if key players survive and Hamas is not weakened in every way possible.
Hamas play by no rules whatsoever, but Israel is expected to abide by every single rule possible, while fighting an enemy that uses its people as human shield's.
Captain we have an incoming stupidity alert
Dive Dive Dive
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Just read an opinion from someone I respect .
Israel are walking into a Thucydides's Trap .
They need to stop and try and make peace .
The opposite of what the Neocons and Iranian's want or expect .
My opinion -
Saladin did something similar in Jerusalem a while ago . Created a legend .
The Iranians/Hamas have raised their Black Flag .
I hope the Israeli's don't fight fire with fire in Gaza .
The Shite world is watching .
The land of
…’everything and nothing’ .
Pop popping facts ;)
@Pop Down
How do you make peace with Jihadist?
Its pretty much impossible you cant change peoples religious based ideologies, if Israel walk's away the rockets dont stop and if Hamas remains strong and key members and leaders remain alive there will be much more chance of another attack like October 7th.
And then of course there is the 200+ who are kidnapped.
indo-dreaming wrote:@ Jelly brain
It's 2023 no need for the accent you you can be an antisemitic Jew hating piece of trash without it these days.
but den!!....
"@andy-mac & Dandandan (directed at you guys as you guys can actually have a proper conversation without insults etc)".
Might have to sin bin yourself tonight indo. ;-)
I'm actually wondering what you would do if it was your wife and your kids stuck in Gaza with no way to escape.
Would you still be as supportive of a levelling of the city with bombs as you are from this safe distance with no consequences?? Or would you consider yourself as part of the Hamas regime through default of simply being Palestinian so just cop it on the chin?
@Indo
I kind of outlined what I thought would be best response earlier but will put down some thoughts.
Firstly I do not know much about the internal political situation in Israel, but it seemed there were some major things happening with the judiciary and protests etc against present Govt. Due to this attack, I guess it will entrench the current govt who by my understanding are of a Hawkish nature in regards to Palistine and settlers etc. Not saying they had anything to do with attack but they will use it to further their agenda which will meet less resistance by other Israeli's now who may have been against it.
My first priority would be trying to get the hostages home safely via negotiations.
They do have to go after Hamas and the people responsible, but by bombing civilians whether being used as shields or not is not going to help Israel's cause. Special forces, intelligence gathering and targeted.
They will just create more enemies and hate, and who knows how many Israelis will die in street battles in Gaza. Also many supportive in the international community and arab world will start to withdraw their support for Israel. Some others will be looking for it to all escalate. I reckon it is exactly what Hamas want, and they are ready with tunnels etc. Do not want hot war between Iran and USA which could very well happen if things get out of control.
Do not think this problem can be solved with a purely military solution, so Israel needs to reach out to some more moderate Palestinian group and start negotiating some kind of solution. Can the 2 state solution be revived? Dunno.
Unlikely, but eventually happened in Northern Ireland and South Africa.
Finally and most importantly in my view, I would investigate how the attack was able to occur in the first place and ensure that something like that could never happen again, it was a major breakdown in their defence and security.
Anyway bit of a rave, sure it will meet disagreement but I think they need to pause a bit and think through some of the ramifications of this kind of military exercise.
Farkkk lowinfo
- with the hole you’re digging yaself, hamas might wanna recruit u…
“Its pretty much impossible you cant change peoples religious based ideologies” ;)
Haha - you said it…
- check out these elephants ;);)
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&pp=ygURemlvbmlzdCBwbGFuIDIwMjM%3Dhttps://m.
&pp=ygURemlvbmlzdCBwbGFuIDIwMjM%3D … this one escaped the herd, but deserves to be heard ;)
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Indo - even someone on Jihad , listens to someone .
Hamas got help .
Israel are already negotiating with them , via intermediates eg UAE , to negate the release of hostages,
They can stop the ground invasion of Gaza by waiting and NOT walking into a trap .
Time is on their. side .
Hamas is in their sites and Hamas know it .
Let them blow up the place like they did in Lebanon .
Just don't be in there with them when it happens .
PS - Dandy . What Hamas did , was like the Nazi's imho . Another level above normal war crimes which happen all over the world , unfortunately .
indo-dreaming wrote:@andy-mac & Dandandan (directed at you guys as you guys can actually have a proper conversation without insults etc)
Im curious what do you think Israel should do now in regard to Hamas?
Surely they cant just walk away and let it be?,
If they do the rockets will just continue and the risk of another attack in the future will be higher especially if key players survive and Hamas is not weakened in every way possible.
Hamas play by no rules whatsoever, but Israel is expected to abide by every single rule possible, while fighting an enemy that uses its people as human shield's.
Israel is expected to obey the rules of war, which they aren't. It is not too onerous a burden for one of the world's most sophisticated armed forces to not kill so many innocent people in their pursuit of justice against terrorists. It's an emotive stretch to claim they are supposed to play by "every single rule possible" when those laws are "don't commit war crimes."
It's not up to people like me or you to determine how they do go about achieving justice, but we are in our right to condemn them for what they are doing. There is an enormous chasm between "walking away" and the 6000 bombs, 5000 dead, at least 2000 children murdered, thousands injured and a million displaced in the last 17 days. An enormous chasm. If killing them is part of their plan, which seems to me is an unavoidable truth given how often they do it and how they show no remorse for it, then what they are committing is collective punishment. That is a war crime.
You know where I stand - I condemn Hamas's terrorists attack on innocent people, and I condemn Israel's war crimes. Almost all of this thread has been about the material reality of the present. It's not about ideologies, contested histories, or other detached musings - important things but not what most of us have been discussing. It's about bombs and bodies. Where do you stand, specifically on the innocent people killed by Israel, remembering that more than a third of them are children?
Yep.
- all you gotta do is the mathematics ;)
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And where does God stand in all of this?
In this clip, some Jewish holocaust prisoners put their God on trial.
Gets particularly interesting after 8:20..
And now…
- slight change of pace.
Z lowinfo just got the memo bout the ‘problem solving’ bit ;)
Been wide of the mark until…
- here lowinfo embraces his true self… and performs his own original peace song, because… as he’s learnt when researching the middle east… ‘we eat it, they eat it’ ;)
https://m.
-
@tubeshooter…
- thank you for posting that
… powerful clip
Good clip Tubeshooter. What movie was that? This silly religion thingy of stupid humans hey!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_on_Trial @seeds, cheers, tubeshooter.
imagine being in a conflicted headspace like that at an inhuman moment like that in an insane place you'd called home : /
Thanks
tubeshooter wrote:And where does God stand in all of this?
In this clip, some Jewish holocaust prisoners put their God on trial.
Gets particularly interesting after 8:20..
Wow...
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Today's shit talk is tomorrow's policy.