Vaccinate or not
We could also be "at war" with an enemy called obesity or suicide or cardio-vascular disease, which all kill millions. Yet in their case, we weigh up the costs and benefits (cynically perhaps, but that's what every country and society does), and come up with an acceptable compromise.
Of course IB, but again COVID patients take up 5-10x the amount of time in ICU, 2-3 weeks compared to 2-3 days, hence clogging it and making an impact on others, like those you've mentioned above and people who have general accidents etc.
It is a juggling act and the only way to try and get on top of it is by reducing transmission and severity through vaccination.
Agree 100% Craig...rather not say it, but Premier can't ignore it any longer either.
Simply reading it from her own dead sea scrolls...NSW Health Surveillance Report...(Way back When!)
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports.aspx
ABC 7:30 Hospital Outbreak....puts it a little more bluntly than tbb...Go in for this & Get that!
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/7-30/series/0/video/NC2101H134S00
More than 1,200 Healthcare Workers in Isolation each day over past 7 days = 8,400 nurses / week.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/major-change-for-n...
Normally that would be #1 News...sorry if it upsets...as it should...
Each publication is saying the exact same thing from all angles to Vax Hubs & Chemists.
NSW biggest ever Hospital Crisis is what it is!
Would be impossible to think NSW Health wasn't at the head of the Virus mid Pandemic.
There is no nice way of putting it!
Reporter asked all the wrong questions & has a scoop on his hands & still doesn't know it?
tbb Salutes the Nurse for Whistle blowing...First time any have challenged the Rollout at all cost mantra!
Hope she wins back her Frontline Nurses from the Vax Matrix.
Apologies to Crew & Best wishes to Frontline & Get well soon NSW.
PS: If any think Frontline can't spread Covid...
July: Malaysia 204 tested [+] of 453 Staff at Mass Vax Hub 88% were Vaxed...
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/vaccination-centre-in-malaysia...
Aug : SFC 200 Staff test [+] from 2 Hospitals > most were fully Vaxed...
https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/san-francisco-hospital-staff-t...
Everytime we'd like to think no patients caught the virus...but given what we know...that's impossible!
Many of Qld's outbreaks also come from Frontline Staff...Breaky TV go thru them like cereal.
Qld have shut Hospitals many times for such...Just thought it was similar news in every City.
All preventable diseases…an obese person or someone with cardio vascular disease doesn’t spread obesity or cardio vascular disease if they brush past you or touch a surface or cough near you..obesity etc etc is not an airborne disease. Jeeze the analogies are becoming more tenuous by the day in here, it simply shows how weak the anti crowd arguments are becoming.
For arguments sake I think all forms of early death should be considered along with covid. Yep 50 a day die in this country from heart disease. Those road deaths, crikey they’re scary...
Still don’t understand how that results in not wanting to do your best to avoid the worst of covid
Don’t you think it’s best to
- vaccinate against covid
- wear a seatbelt and don’t speed
- eat less saturated fat
- not jump into a shark feeding frenzy
I agree there’s a covid fixation anxiety going on and that is contributing to increased teen self harm, unfortunately
Parents, remind your kids it’s not that bad and like Kelly says, “the world is still a beautiful place”
Stay focussed people, the goal is to not die early, in any which way.
And keep having fun. It’s not that hard is it?
etarip wrote:Indod, looks like vaccine hesitancy is still pretty strong in Indonesia. I was initially surprised by the reasons outlined here. Super interesting seeing the cultural reasons differ but the UT ones can be the same:
https://www.newmandala.org/whats-behind-covid-19-vaccine-hesitancy-in-in...
Decent read, the halal thing makes sense though and also many Indonesians aren't fans of China or Chinese people. (as Chinese Indonesians 3% of pop hold a huge amount of the wealth in Indonesia)
Pity they are mostly getting Sinovac seems like the worst of all the vaccines, hopefully my friends and family can get another brand to boost in the future.
Surprised that vaccination rates are so high in normal times for babies etc, there has been a few fake vaccines going around in Indonesia for other things years ago, was in the news and caused people to not vaccinate kids.
11-15th Aug - Cornwall [ Boardmasters ) Surfers Against Sewage
[ Line Up Code ) [ Tests / Vax ) [ Covid recover ) [ No Masks )...50,000 attend.
https://www.boardmasters.com/info/boardmasters-covid-19-policy-requirements
Like Wow! [ Wipeout )
23rd Aug [ The Wash-Up ) > 5,000 cases linked to Surfie's Beach Party
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/23/almost-5000-covid-cases-...
30 Aug [ Locals Only )
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/boardmasters-2021-teen-1...
Aust Vax rate now 34.4% fully vax and 58% at least one dose.
Hats off to Queenscliffe with Australias highest first dose rate of 86.9%
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-30/covid-vaccine-lga-highest-lowest-...
What are the origins of the E in Queenscliffe?
5th letter of the alphabet I believe.
Hahaha
Questions for crew and tbb
Why are vaccinated people the largest % in the hospital in UK, Israel etc? Is it because so much of the population is vaccinated? Is it because they get a shot/2nd shot, think they are OK, go and get infected before the protection of the vaccine is fully working? Is it because their immune system is already dealing with the spike protein in the vaccine then gets steamrolled by the actual virus? Is it because the virus has mutated and vaccine has less efficacy? Do the vaccines make hospital more likely?! These stats have confused me.
Likelihood of ending up in hospital: what are the comparisons in % 1) unvaccinated vs 2)astra zeneca vs 3) pfizer in Oz? Lastly - what are % of vaccine complications for each?
& tbb - are you continuing to isolate?
Spot on roadkill, the reporting about deaths from COVID or with COVID should have been clear from the start but wasn’t. Why not? You have to ask the question.. the answer = because they wanted to raise the fear to successfully roll out the vax and hit their numbers. They admired it here and in the UK and the US but it was shown once or twice (Health Ministers saying it) but somehow it passed like a tumble weed down the street.
According to Craig though this might be acceptable as that’s what we needed to do...?
Head explosion emoji
Back to the E, I think that's a French thing, French influence on the language. Could be wrong.
There’s about 5 people under the age of 60 in point lonsdale and queenscliff so makes sense they’re first vaxxed.
But yeh, weird the town is Queenscliff in the Borough of Queenscliffe.
Agh, just realised it was a typo. Thought I was going mad as I've never seen it with the e before.
Craig wrote:Agh, just realised it was a typo. Thought I was going mad as I've never seen it with the e before.
Not a typo, see my post above.
That’s how they spell the LGA but not the town itself.
nuthin wrong with a good ol e here n there
Craige does look a bit fancier, after all.
lostdoggy wrote:There’s about 5 people under the age of 60 in point lonsdale and queenscliff so makes sense they’re first vaxxed.
But yeh, weird the town is Queenscliff in the Borough of Queenscliffe.
Craze
"All preventable diseases…an obese person or someone with cardio vascular disease doesn’t spread obesity or cardio vascular disease if they brush past you or touch a surface or cough near you..."
but they are the ones dying from covid!!
practically the ONLY ones under 70 - 80 years old...
so totally relevant!
"...obesity etc etc is not an airborne disease. Jeeze the analogies are becoming more tenuous by the day in here, it simply shows how weak the anti crowd arguments are becoming."
not really, they are clogging the medical system just as much, if not more.... and they are significantly contributung to the death figures... often counted in a rather conniving and misleading manner...
totally totally relevant
this whole censorship obsession is so dodgy...
"Science journalist Alex Berenson has been permanently suspended from Twitter, just one day after a viral series of tweets spotlighting an Israeli preprint study which showed that natural immunity from a prior Covid-19 infection is 13 times more effective than vaccines against the delta variant...."
"The last tweet he posted, meanwhile, accurately noted that the vaccine "doesn't stop infection. Or transmission."
"Don't think of it as a vaccine," he added. "Think of it - at best - as a therapeutic with a limited window of efficacy and terrible side effect profile that must be dosed IN ADVANCE OF ILLNESS."
"And we want to mandate it? Insanity."
"This was the tweet that did it. Entirely accurate. I can’t wait to hear what a jury will make of this," wrote Berenson on his substack blog, Unreported Truths."
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/twitter-permanently-bans-alex-berenso...
sypkan wrote:"All preventable diseases…an obese person or someone with cardio vascular disease doesn’t spread obesity or cardio vascular disease if they brush past you or touch a surface or cough near you..."
but they are the ones dying from covid!!
practically the ONLY ones under 70 - 80 years old...
so totally relevant!
"...obesity etc etc is not an airborne disease. Jeeze the analogies are becoming more tenuous by the day in here, it simply shows how weak the anti crowd arguments are becoming."
not really, they are clogging the medical system just as much, if not more.... and they are significantly contributung to the death figures... often counted in a rather conniving and misleading manner...
totally totally relevant
Relevant…to those with nfi.
mate, thats the people who are dying
thats the people filling hospitals
were they not your two main concerns?
it may seem a distraction to you, but they are totally interelated, and if the public knew this 12 months ago ie. the information wasn't suppressed, we may be in a better position the whole world over
especially now we are seeing the shortcomings of vaccines come to light...
despite the suppresion and censorship..
again...
sypkan wrote:especially now we are seeing the shortcomings of vaccines come to light...
.
The Covid vaccines aren't perfect, but in the long run they will prevent the deaths of millions of people.
Remember back to the start of Covid, they were even saying it wasn't possible to produce a vaccine for coronaviruses.
So really we should be pretty happy we have these vaccines.
sypkan wrote:this whole censorship obsession is so dodgy...
"Science journalist Alex Berenson has been permanently suspended from Twitter, just one day after a viral series of tweets spotlighting an Israeli preprint study which showed that natural immunity from a prior Covid-19 infection is 13 times more effective than vaccines against the delta variant...."
"The last tweet he posted, meanwhile, accurately noted that the vaccine "doesn't stop infection. Or transmission."
"Don't think of it as a vaccine," he added. "Think of it - at best - as a therapeutic with a limited window of efficacy and terrible side effect profile that must be dosed IN ADVANCE OF ILLNESS."
"And we want to mandate it? Insanity."
"This was the tweet that did it. Entirely accurate. I can’t wait to hear what a jury will make of this," wrote Berenson on his substack blog, Unreported Truths."
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/twitter-permanently-bans-alex-berenso...
I'm not quite sure I see the same suppression/censorship.
seeing as that study is mainstream news and IB posted a link to it in science mag./
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-m...
so you don't see twitter as overstepping the mark?
especially considering they give people like the taliban and ccp pretty much free rein, then this guy is somehow deemed 'dangerous'...
banned for life?
sypkan wrote:mate, thats the people who are dying
thats the people filling hospitals
were they not your two main concerns?
it may seem a distraction to you, but they are totally interelated, and if the public knew this 12 months ago ie. the information wasn't suppressed, we may be in a better position the whole world over
especially now we are seeing the shortcomings of vaccines come to light...
despite the suppresion and censorship..
again...
Actually, we are seeing the benefits of the vaccines come to light.
"Remember back to the start of Covid, they were even saying it wasn't possible to produce a vaccine for coronaviruses."
some are still saying this... and from the emerging 'evidrnce' it's not really an exaggeration...
which doesn't make me antivax btw, I've had it, in my circumstances, surrounded by virus, it was the smart thing to do from my perspective...
but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the perspective of a well respected science writer, well, once respected...
I can't praise the gods enough for guys like this Berenson dude, for giving another perspective, for challenging the big, the powerful, and the bought...
because the alternative is accepting the uncontested narrative of nutters like vicvocal, never to be challenged... no debate... non negotiable... that's what some of you are advocating...
now that is some messed up and dangerous shit
not to mention unscientific
I don't mean you two btw
"Actually, we are seeing the benefits of the vaccines come to light."
benefits and shortcomings
some pretty pygmy short shortcomings considering we're not even close to 12 months in...
apparently there's talk of 5 month boosters from faucci, ...you wanna live like that? ...is that even realistic? ...scary scary cycle to lock into...
Biden was pushing 5 months, Fauci saying 8 month boosters.
not cool either way
not cool and ridiculous...
not cool, ridiculous, and not really a vaccine...
and just as a side note / thought...
it's gonna be so interesting to watch the hype machine push their wide sweeping statistics, and attribute all these reductions in deaths and illness to the vaccines...
when really, there's a heap of the vulnerable have been taken out in various waves, and a heap of people establish immunity, often unkowingly, by being infected by the virus...
my thinking here is not so much australia, where exposure has still been quite minimal, but moreso places like US, europe, indo etc. ...
as indod pointed out a few days ago, the crisis has backed right off now in java, with infections, sick people, deaths, and hospital admissions all dropping significantly. I know this as fact, as I have family in java that worked the health sector through the worst of it, with one of them only working every second week now, job sharing, because of no work
the vaccine rates in java are abysmal by any standard... easily below 30% i imagine, yet the crisis has passed / is passing...
is the machine going to attribute the improving conditions in java to vaccines? ...despite the rate being woefully low...
or just go silent? ...like it did with india...
the bali java scenario would be a most interesting case study. while java got smashed a month or so ago, it seems bali got smashed a couple of weeks later, with numbers only just coming good now in bali
bali has something like 90% vaccine rate amongst adult population. but there was still a hell of lot of people sick the last month or so - avoiding hospital, due to need and fear, as much as due to vaccines it would seem...
and there has been a significant number of deaths recently reported on the bali covid site
(probably smaller as a percentage compared to java... you would certainly hope...)
that there is one hell of a perfect case study scenario...
(except for the fact most people - a big most - avoid getting tested and going to hospital...)
anyway, for a developed country from here... it is almost impossible (and not wanted...) to distinguish a reduction in sickness and death due to vaccines, compared with how much is due to natural infection / immunity, and the previous taking out of the vulnerable in previous waves of infection
but we know it will be all bundled together...
rather conveniently...
The promised land and NSW
100% sypkan the NSW Health Minister today openly saying two shots not enough, you’ll need a 3rd and forever into the foreseeable future continual boosters, likely similar to what Fauci is proposing I. E. 8 monthly.
ANYONE who still thinks that u take your 1 or 2 shots and your ‘free’, is lost. Sorry. You were notified of this outcome a long time ago. It’s time to say NO or you will become a product of your environment and in this case your environment wants to shape you into a dosed up, sedated, sterilised, complying blob.
Shoredump ‘the goal is not to die early’.
But better to than live on your knees..
I think a few crew on here need to crank that oils song now.
New treatment just approved for Australia . Best thing is natural immunity and acquired antibodies but this is miles better than vaccine and safer . Would take “pressure off “ hospitals.
https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-greg-hunt-mp/media/tga-appro...
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/how-a-n...
“Sedated and sterilised”
Bahahaha!
Freudian slips Shorto?
udo wrote:
100% accurate. Zdogg always tells it so well.
Would love to hear what the doubters in here think after watching this.
Roadkill wrote:All preventable diseases…an obese person or someone with cardio vascular disease doesn’t spread obesity or cardio vascular disease if they brush past you or touch a surface or cough near you..obesity etc etc is not an airborne disease. Jeeze the analogies are becoming more tenuous by the day in here, it simply shows how weak the anti crowd arguments are becoming.
Roadkill, as you may have been able to guess from my use of quotation marks, I was addressing Brutus using his own language, so that he might better see what I was trying to say.
I'm not being anti-vaxx, I'm not yelling "conspiracy!", I'm simply questioning why Covid is the only cause of death that MUST been seen in absolute terms, not relative like all the other things that kill us.
You're not allowed to compare with:
- The flu. While it ticks the "contagious" box, It is less deadly (although more to children and infants).
- Cancer. Kills many many more, but not contagious.
- Obesity. See cancer.
- Suicide.
- Malnutrition. They're all 3rd world countries, so let's not worry, aye :-(
- Scores of other big killers.
Everything else that's a big cause of death we deal with by considering the pros and cons:
- How much can we do without making the cure worse than the disease.
- What it practical and practicable.
- What is possible without trampling on human rights (this was an important point until March 2020, believe it or not).
- How many resources can we direct at a certain cause of death, without killing more people by defunding other interventions. And so on.
For some reason, the governments currently in power, and a large number of people, have decided that all these considerations go out the window with Covid, because...
shortenism wrote:Shoredump ‘the goal is not to die early’.
But better to than live on your knees..
I think a few crew on here need to crank that oils song now.
Do you really see the blue rinse set that have been getting the annual flu jab for decades as living on their knees?
My workplace offers it every winter for free
Are you outraged?
I take vitamin tablets every day, standing up
saltyone wrote:New treatment just approved for Australia . Best thing is natural immunity and acquired antibodies but this is miles better than vaccine and safer . Would take “pressure off “ hospitals.
https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-greg-hunt-mp/media/tga-appro...
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/how-a-n...
Interesting, but it seems its for people in higher risk groups that should already be double jabbed by now..
It seems it needs to be administered through "intravenous (IV) infusion in a health care facility"
If you are the type of person in a high risk group that hasn't had the jab because paranoid about effects of Covid vaccines, i can't imagine they would be too keen on going and having an IV.
But maybe there is people that cant have the vaccine for medical reasons but can still have this?
Cmon shoredump, this isn’t the flu jab, god knows why you would have that either but this is not injecting you with virus fragments of something going through its usual 7 yr testing this is an experimental mRNA ‘vaccine’ they want to force on you at 8 monthly periods for ever into the future so you have SOME of your freedoms back when they decide and what they decide..
How any man at this point (let alone 2 yrs ago when you couldn’t face what the ‘conspiracy nutters’ where telling you) can defend this program, is a fkn disgrace.
You got kids, you want them coming into a world like this? This is the WRONG.
The current media blitz on ivermectin is absolutely ridiculous and amazing . There is a difference between human and livestock ivermectin but it’s largely been touted as horse paste . What has happened to journalists around the world ? In all their stores they fail to mention that ivermectin has been used on HUMANS over 4 billion times and has a better safety record than aspirin . They also fail to mention its on the WHO list of essential medicines in fact it’s in the top 10 . They also fail to mention it won the two scientists who discovered it the Nobel prize for medicine in 2015 . Now why would the NIH , the Oxford university and our own Monash university currently be doing trials on ivermectin if it was nothing but horse paste ? What doctors are prescribing the animal version ? Talk about spreading misinformation. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/australian-imports-of-iver.... This is a coordinated media blitz that is happening world wide
Shortenism, as I have said before, I see only one viable door with an exit sign for moving somewhat quickly out of the current crisis mode and endless lockdowns. It has "high vaccination rate target met" stuck on it.
The UK has stepped through it and whilst it is messy I can't see them heading back.
Once out the door a lot of what disturbs you will tend to fall away as normality returns, new treatment options develop and the costs and efforts to stay in crisis mode become just a burden for all with limited support and even look silly as people, on the whole, learn to live with covid.
I reckon step through the door as fast as we can. Once fear fades, rationality improves and some of the weird stuff covid has created will crumble.
Staying too long in the panic room (crisis mode) is what is a real concern as more and more stuff sticks.
Maybe your approach, in the short term, actually feeds the crisis and gives you the opposite of what you want.
I am not sure what your alternative is. Post your way to victory swimming against a massive rip?
"...this is an experimental mRNA ‘vaccine’ ..."
doesn't have to be mrna...
you have a choice
"The UK has stepped through it and whilst it is messy I can't see them heading back.
Once out the door a lot of what disturbs you will tend to fall away as normality returns, new treatment options develop and the costs and efforts to stay in crisis mode become just a burden for all with limited support and even look silly as people, on the whole, learn to live with covid.
I reckon step through the door as fast as we can. Once fear fades, rationality improves and some of the weird stuff covid has created will crumble.
Staying too long in the panic room (crisis mode) is what is a real concern as more and more stuff sticks..."
It's amazing watching family in the UK live pretty much normal lives...
a cousin just flew to europe for a few days. I got the usual facebook updates all the way...
beers in airport before take off, no masks...
beers in barcelona, no masks...
off to somewhere else last night, some outside activity, no masks... no beers... yet...
meanwhile, much of oz is living in absolute fear... one can only pray and hope for a return of rationality...
the hate filled partisans won't like it, but it appears bumbling boris has got things about right... not by any masterstroke of management, just his bumbling...
and possibly a little ideology... which has kept the some of the excesses of the usual suspects in check...
I was a little shocked at Alan Joyce (CEO Qantas) announcement that international travelers will be required to have a covid 19 vaccination in order to travel on Qantas flights . The government wanted to have mandatory vaccination but after the bumbling of its release ( it was painful to watch the delivery of that announcement ) they withdrew the mandatory part but it seems Qantas and other business may demand a vaccination in order to use their services. I’m not anti vaccine by any means I just don’t trust this government or a vaccine that has been rushed through. A jab followed by another jab followed by yearly jabs doesn’t sit well with me as I have never had a flu shot or the flu for more than 20 years. Plus I don’t want to give this shot to my healthy 4 year old daughter. She is up to date with all her vaccinations but this covid vaccine is new and not being around for decades like the others. Tuberculosis remains the number one as far diseases go and you don’t need proof of vaccination to travel so what is going on ?