2022 Election
@indo to your point $25k for a reno was awesome. Instant depreciation threshold increase even better. Increase of home office tax deduction also really good. Quite a few good policies, no doubt. Job keeper was also a really good policy but unfortunately an obvious fuck up with inability to recover funds from profitable companies. All in all, a lot of good polices.
But also to be fair Rudd’s GFC stimulus was criticised but I thought it was really good. I was very young back then but worked my ass off with a huge pipeline of works. Schools, uni buildings, overpasses, train stations, worked on a whole heap of stuff back then.
Fuck people trying to buy a home, lets make people with an asset skyrocketing in value richer.
simsurf wrote:Fuck people trying to buy a home, lets make people with an asset skyrocketing in value richer.
simsurf wrote:Fuck people trying to buy a home, lets make people with an asset skyrocketing in value richer.
True that
LNP policy 101 always gift to your backers fuck everyone else
The true meaning of Hockey’s “Lifters and Leaners” statement
I focus wrote:How do you manage the economy better when you throw $40 bil to profitable companies most of which went to overseas interests?
That last bits garbage, but it always surprises me how people don't understand the importance big business play in the scheme of things they are such an important part of the economy provide so many jobs and bring in so much income via tax, i have no issue with them getting a little back to help them through Covid.
I thought the money provided by the government was a good mix/balance between big business, small business and individuals, and the proof is in the pudding in how the economy performed through Covid.
And thats what i care about, i just want the government to keep the economy healthy and as stable as possible, taxes low, and ideally interest rates and unemployment low and provide some basic services with as less interference in my life as possible.
Thats my only criticism of LNP during Covid, in hindsight i think they went too far down the authoritarian type route especially in regard to international travel and allowing states to have such draconian lockdowns and restrictions and restrictions on unvaccinated, but on he flip side i do understand it was always hard to get the balance right between peoples rights/freedom and keeping society healthy and most vulnerable safe as possible.
info-bs*
No-one ever gives away $40 billion ever
*bum splatter
And you wonder why people call you a troll.
No point arguing into the void Guy. Gillgan clearly thinks he knows better.
Indo biggest transfer of wealth from tax payers to profitable private companies...ever.
Total cluster
I focus wrote:Indo biggest transfer of wealth from tax payers to profitable private companies...ever.
Total cluster
Easily the biggest transfer of wealth to social security recipients too and id expect the biggest for small business too with the help of job keeper and other schemes.(if not the biggest it would be the second biggest)
Thats the whole aim to ensure the economy stayed healthy and we didnt go into a deep dark recession.
Let's not forget this has been one of the biggest events in our life's, shit could have gone very bad from both an economical perspective and a health perspective, but it didn't, in both areas we rank among the best in the world during Covid.
I focus wrote:Indo biggest transfer of wealth from tax payers to profitable private companies...ever.
Total cluster
Those big companies like Qantas were bleeding cash with thousands of employees to lose their jobs and would be completely bankrupt and dead now if not for that money. My daughter in law got her $750 per week while those planes she worked on were parked idle in the American desert and she for one is very grateful.
Sometimes the big guys need help too.
I focus wrote:Indo biggest transfer of wealth from tax payers to profitable private companies...ever.
Total cluster
Clueless
Economics 101. Always remember to look after the big end of town, privatise the profits and socialise the loses
I wonder how those mendicants in corporate Australia are travelling?
https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/corporate-profits
indo-dreaming wrote:I focus wrote:How do you manage the economy better when you throw $40 bil to profitable companies most of which went to overseas interests?
That last bits garbage, but it always surprises me how people don't understand the importance big business play in the scheme of things they are such an important part of the economy provide so many jobs and bring in so much income via tax, i have no issue with them getting a little back to help them through Covid.
I thought the money provided by the government was a good mix/balance between big business, small business and individuals, and the proof is in the pudding in how the economy performed through Covid.
And thats what i care about, i just want the government to keep the economy healthy and as stable as possible, taxes low, and ideally interest rates and unemployment low and provide some basic services with as less interference in my life as possible.
Thats my only criticism of LNP during Covid, in hindsight i think they went too far down the authoritarian type route especially in regard to international travel and allowing states to have such draconian lockdowns and restrictions and restrictions on unvaccinated, but on he flip side i do understand it was always hard to get the balance right between peoples rights/freedom and keeping society healthy and most vulnerable safe as possible.
What a fucking joke. They will hunt you to end of the earth for a $10 Centrelink debt, but get millions of dollars of tax payers money when you turn a profit or even increase revenue? Yeah no worries, keep it.
So how did we fare as a country compared to the rest of the world during covid? I would think we would be up there as one of the best countries to live in during this time. I personally wouldn't want to be anywhere else. This pandemic was a once in 100 year event. Did anyone or any government globally think this would happen 5 years ago? What blueprint was there to deal with covid? Sure, some things were done wrongly but I for one feel very fortunate to live here and think the government has done a good job both federally and at state level (I live in WA). I'm happy with the way things are and don`t see a reason to change. I just cant see Labor doing a better job federally and I cant see Libs doing a better job at WA state level.
The Fed's were supporting Clive Palmer's court case to open up your borders early on in the pandemic oxrox, against the wishes of the state government that you also praise. How do you reconcile these opposing actions?
Optimist wrote:Those big companies like Qantas were bleeding cash with thousands of employees to lose their jobs and would be completely bankrupt and dead now if not for that money. My daughter in law got her $750 per week while those planes she worked on were parked idle in the American desert and she for one is very grateful.
Sometimes the big guys need help too.
100%
I just don't understand how people don't understand this, if these companies collapse they put so many people put of work, and it hurts all kinds of business down the chain, losing an airline for instance also hurts us all because it takes away competition that keep prices reasonable.
It's different if a business cant stand on its own feet long term because it's not viable obviously it doesn't deserve to be supported long term by government or tax payer, but the effects of Covid on business small or big was never going to be a long term thing.
If it was only big business that got a hand, yeah sure people would have something to whinge about, but people at all levels got a helping hand from social security to small business to big business.
oxrox wrote:So how did we fare as a country compared to the rest of the world during covid? I would think we would be up there as one of the best countries to live in during this time. I personally wouldn't want to be anywhere else. This pandemic was a once in 100 year event. Did anyone or any government globally think this would happen 5 years ago? What blueprint was there to deal with covid? Sure, some things were done wrongly but I for one feel very fortunate to live here and think the government has done a good job both federally and at state level (I live in WA). I'm happy with the way things are and don`t see a reason to change. I just cant see Labor doing a better job federally and I cant see Libs doing a better job at WA state level.
Yep pretty much agree with most of that
It’s the companies that weren’t bleeding cash that’s the problem. Harvey Norman for example. They had record sales and didn’t need job keeper to pay their employees. Even rusted on LNP voters should be pissed off. It’s your tax dollars too
“...... This pandemic was a once in 100 year event. Did anyone or any government globally think this would happen 5 years ago? ..... “
Probably not and that is why excellent pandemic planning by govt here and elsewhere was put on the back burner despite Ebola years ago thanks to the “small govt/taxes” ideology of the past/current day.
jwithay wrote:The Fed's were supporting Clive Palmer's court case to open up your borders early on in the pandemic oxrox, against the wishes of the state government that you also praise. How do you reconcile these opposing actions?
Yeah that's one of the wrong things. I'm just thinking on a global scale without looking at individual things that are right or wrong.
Happy to be sitting right where I am.
The polls are showing his support as preferred prime minister tanking even among full time workers with university degrees. The only group holding steady is amongst Christians which I couldn't imagine is a big voting bloc in Australia. I think he is on the way out. As stated previously, I don't think either party makes a huge difference, but the PM always gives me a weasel vibe when he opens his mouth. He likes to pretend he is some working class hero, but things like going on holidays during the bushfires and taking a huge entourage of people to the Uk when no one else could travel shows what a faker he is.
LNP will lose the next election for 3 simple reasons, Slomo , Mr Potato head and the Beetroot. Time the LNP cleared out the dead wood.
Supafreak wrote:LNP will lose the next election for 3 simple reasons, Slomo , Mr Potato head and the Beetroot. Time the LNP cleared out the dead wood.
Been off grid for a few weeks, yep and got waves. Conversation seems like same points being debated. But,,,,,
Fark I hope you are correct!
Supafreak wrote:LNP will lose the next election for 3 simple reasons, Slomo , Mr Potato head and the Beetroot. Time the LNP cleared out the dead wood.
Sadly I agree they will lose but they aren't the reasons.
These are the reasons:
1. Time and cycles: The longer a government is in power the harder it is to keep government by the time the election comes around it will be approaching almost 9 years since the LNP have been in power.
Personally i think LNP should have played it safe and called an election in the middle of Covid when they were way in front in the polls, it would have been criticised but changing government in the middle of a pandemic would have been less risky.
2. Covid and unrealistic expectations from the the public: name a decent sized country around the world that has done good during Covid??? even ask Kiwis and they will complain about the government approach and if there was an election there now we could see a very different result than their last election, people are just pessimistic and focus on small negatives instead of the overall positive picture. (and media fuel this, cause bad news sells and good news doesn't)
If LNP cant keep government after all their success during Covid, then they were never going too.
3. Media: Media have beat anything and everything up, im not saying it wont happen when Labor get in, i think it will, we have seen it during this recent "Mean girls" thing, the media landscape has changed a lot in the last few years and become more toxic than ever, the games getting harder.
4. Labor last election played a terrible hand, overconfident with radical policy and a very unlikable leader, this election its the opposite despite having an extremely vanilla leader with no charisma Albo also isn't instantly dislikable like Shorten, and policy wise they have toned everything way down, they also havent been over negative or political and just let the media do their thing, even losing weight i think is a clever move psychologically, naturally people look at that as a positive and think hmmm he looks younger and healthier.
The good news is Labor are woke as fuck and in bed with the Greens, sooner or latter they will destroy themselves and put people off, most likely a few years time when get too comfortable.
If im wrong well at least they will some how have contained their wokeness.
@indo , I thought my comment would get a reaction from you . I agree if slomo had called the election earlier when his popularity was soaring, then they would have won for sure . When slomo and shorten were doing the TV debates last election I thought shorten clearly won . Without big clives fear and smear campaign plus the frankin credit issues is what really lost the election. I’ve personally found shorten a bit aloof and arrogant but believe he would have done the job well. I’m surprised slomo wasn’t challenged for the leadership given his performance lately.
Supafreak wrote:@indo , I thought my comment would get a reaction from you . I agree if slomo had called the election earlier when his popularity was soaring, then they would have won for sure . When slomo and shorten were doing the TV debates last election I thought shorten clearly won . Without big clives fear and smear campaign plus the frankin credit issues is what really lost the election. I’ve personally found shorten a bit aloof and arrogant but believe he would have done the job well. I’m surprised slomo wasn’t challenged for the leadership given his performance lately.
Who would they put up instead who could win an election? Dutton? lol
No-one is thinking yet about the likely nuclear implosion within the LNP after the election lost at state (NSW & Vic minimum) and federal level. Frydenberg the likely insipid leader if in fact he is re-elected (Dutton likely losing his seat) herding the cats of the religious far right, the flat earth far right, the Nationals going rogue and the one or two true remaining moderates. Likely very poor look for upcoming Vicco and NSW elections late 21 and early 22
Us wokerized lefties (in bed with the greens and under the bed with the reds or down at Trades Hall with the commie Marxists) are going to be purring on our backs like fat cats full of milk!
Vintage slomo
.Morrison worries that Labor has never done a budget but tells us that 3 + 4 = 8 🤣#auspol pic.twitter.com/W7ahGtW1BF
— Squizz (@SquizzSTK) March 27, 2022
Morrison has trouble with numbers. It must be an LNP thing because when Barnaby gets into the maths he has trouble too. Out of 100% he can only get to 90%...........he lost 10% somewhere! pic.twitter.com/KH728i2PdD
— BundjalungVeteran (@beema41) March 27, 2022
GuySmiley wrote:No-one is thinking yet about the likely nuclear implosion within the LNP after the election lost at state (NSW & Vic minimum) and federal level. Frydenberg the likely insipid leader if in fact he is re-elected (Dutton likely losing his seat) herding the cats of the religious far right, the flat earth far right, the Nationals going rogue and the one or two true remaining moderates. Likely very poor look for upcoming Vicco and NSW elections late 21 and early 22
Us wokerized lefties (in bed with the greens and under the bed with the reds or down at Trades Hall with the commie Marxists) are going to be purring on our backs like fat cats full of milk!
Labor were pretty much unelectable one year ago and i doubt anyone would have dreamed Albo would be preferred PM, but here we are. (amazing what a diet will do)
LNP will reload and reset and be back bigger and better than ever, there's a good reason why the LNP have been in power 47 of the last 70 years and 19 of the last 25 years.
I just wish they could push Jacinta Price into federal politics, that would be the dream, first women prime mister voted in by the people first indigenous PM, and a real conservative that is smart well spoken and as tough as nails, even the lefties would vote for her just for being a women and indigenous.
Interesting graph , particularly where abbott came in and since. 
Go find a graph with interest rates for the last 40 years and I'm pretty certain you will find they almost mirror things the opposite way, because when interest rates are low it's a good time to borrow money, when they're high it's not.
Then there is the way economics has changed over time, while I'm not 100% convinced with the magic money tree theory, im sure there is some truth to it to a degree.
Australia is also not alone in this spending pattern, most developed countries have similar patterns.
Also what is more important is debt to gdp ratio which again for a developed country Australias is still quite low.
Indo, you're right there is nothing wrong with borrowing money and running a deficit, but it is reasonable to expect the money is not thrown to donors and friends.
arcadia wrote:Indo, you're right there is nothing wrong with borrowing money and running a deficit, but it is reasonable to expect the money is not thrown to donors and friends.
It is eminently sensible to borrow when money is cheap. The only issue that seems to arise is when its is an ALP government choosing to do so, at which point there is a chorus of "irresponsible fiscal management" and "cant be trusted". Unfortunately things get a lot quieter when the money is thrown and friends and sponsors with the express view to make obscene profits.
Talk at the moment for temporary scrapping the fuel tax while prices are high . I haven’t heard either side talk about where this tax money to build and maintain roads is going to come from once we go full electric .
Supafreak wrote:Talk at the moment for temporary scrapping the fuel tax while prices are high . I haven’t heard either side talk about where this tax money to build and maintain roads is going to come from once we go full electric .
Ive said this many times before and despite being a conservative I'm pro electric cars, a friend has a Tesla and it's the bomb its like a thing of the future makes petrol cars seem so outdated, im also a fan of Elon Musk even if some of his ideas on artificial intelligence etc scare me.
So ambitious! Pretty much a copy of an already existing policy + a total investment of just $12m. Seriously, can't they come up with something more ambitious?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-25/first-home-buyers-scheme-regional...
"Talk at the moment for temporary scrapping the fuel tax while prices are high . I haven’t heard either side talk about where this tax money to build and maintain roads is going to come from once we go full electric ."
Don't worry Supa, Scott said yesterday he's done "eight budgets, three as treasurer and four as PM."
So nothing to worry about.
indo-dreaming wrote:Optimist wrote:Those big companies like Qantas were bleeding cash with thousands of employees to lose their jobs and would be completely bankrupt and dead now if not for that money. My daughter in law got her $750 per week while those planes she worked on were parked idle in the American desert and she for one is very grateful.
Sometimes the big guys need help too.100%
I just don't understand how people don't understand this, if these companies collapse they put so many people put of work, and it hurts all kinds of business down the chain, losing an airline for instance also hurts us all because it takes away competition that keep prices reasonable.
It's different if a business cant stand on its own feet long term because it's not viable obviously it doesn't deserve to be supported long term by government or tax payer, but the effects of Covid on business small or big was never going to be a long term thing.
If it was only big business that got a hand, yeah sure people would have something to whinge about, but people at all levels got a helping hand from social security to small business to big business.
The $40 bil of free money saga / fiasco is that bad the Government refuses to publish who got the money and how much unlike NZ etc.
Currently we are a $trill under water with a structural deficit running this year some where between $70 bil and a $100 bill no surplus for ever in sight, with rising inflation, rising interest rates and this lot of mugs budget ready to throw more free money on the fire.
A world wide recession pretty much baked in "Coalition better money managers FFS"
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:Talk at the moment for temporary scrapping the fuel tax while prices are high . I haven’t heard either side talk about where this tax money to build and maintain roads is going to come from once we go full electric .
Ive said this many times before and despite being a conservative I'm pro electric cars, a friend has a Tesla and it's the bomb its like a thing of the future makes petrol cars seem so outdated, im also a fan of Elon Musk even if some of his ideas on artificial intelligence etc scare me.
The cheapest tesla comes in at $60,000 , Qld government offering $3000 towards cost, how many low income earners have money for a electric car ? Something needs to change.
indo-dreaming wrote:Optimist wrote:Those big companies like Qantas were bleeding cash with thousands of employees to lose their jobs and would be completely bankrupt and dead now if not for that money. My daughter in law got her $750 per week while those planes she worked on were parked idle in the American desert and she for one is very grateful.
Sometimes the big guys need help too.100%
I just don't understand how people don't understand this, if these companies collapse they put so many people put of work, and it hurts all kinds of business down the chain, losing an airline for instance also hurts us all because it takes away competition that keep prices reasonable.
It's different if a business cant stand on its own feet long term because it's not viable obviously it doesn't deserve to be supported long term by government or tax payer, but the effects of Covid on business small or big was never going to be a long term thing.
If it was only big business that got a hand, yeah sure people would have something to whinge about, but people at all levels got a helping hand from social security to small business to big business.
QANTAS...sure, no-one was flying so airlines suffered and associated tourism businesses too. However, a great many businesses fared better under the pandemic, and not necessarily because of stimulus cash, but of course that helped other businesses.
The feds have at their disposal the means to track where the money went and, most importantly, who really needed it. My anger is focussed on this because it became obvious the payments were rorted, and despite having the tools to claw undue back money (the tax system does it every year), Frydenberg and co. just shrugged their shoulders while muttering something about companies "doing the right thing" (a handful of companies returned money).
So despite having all the means to contain public money, Frydenberg is a treasurer who runs his country on the honour system.
Despite ID and Opti's justifications, they're the ones who "don't understand this".
This is a better graph.(below)
We can see clearly a few things here.
1. Debt increased under Hawk & Keating
2. Debt reduced under Howard
3. Debt sharply increased under Rudd
4. Debt continued to sharply increase under Abbott to Scomo
Clearly if you want to look at things from an old school perspective Howard is the man followed by Hawke.
But have things changed???, we have had many discussions here about MMT many claim debt isn't important anymore, it's honestly hard to grasp but there does seem to be a change in the world on how debt is dealt with and viewed.
Our approach seems a safe middle of the road one compared to the rest of the world.
If you look at what is important debt to GDP there is about 120 countries ahead of us in higher debt to GDP ratio.
We are at 41% for perspective
Japan=247%
Singapore=109%
USA= 106%
Canada=88%
UK=85%
Most European countries are above us and only a few below us as is NZ
Source= https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-national-debt
Supafreak wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:Talk at the moment for temporary scrapping the fuel tax while prices are high . I haven’t heard either side talk about where this tax money to build and maintain roads is going to come from once we go full electric .
Ive said this many times before and despite being a conservative I'm pro electric cars, a friend has a Tesla and it's the bomb its like a thing of the future makes petrol cars seem so outdated, im also a fan of Elon Musk even if some of his ideas on artificial intelligence etc scare me.
The cheapest tesla comes in at $60,000 , Qld government offering $3000 towards cost, how many low income earners have money for a electric car ? Something needs to change.
Yeah that's the problem you can get cheaper EV's from memory Nissan leaf about 35-40K but only a small car, its still a lot of money.
Ive looked at the second had ones and even if a year or two old, the tech is nowhere as good as the new models but the price still super expensive.
Hard to see them coming down in price to really make them affordable though.
BTW. Strangely enough the Lib NSW government have a scheme to subsides to encourage take up of EV's, while Vic Labor have a KM tax on EV's, Opposite policy of what you would expect...go figure.
Indo and his best buddy? Add your own caption.
Thank you I always loved Gilligan.
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