2022 Election
"Relating in a more direct manner to Slater’s attitude is the opinion I heard from a commenter over at Macrobusiness who claimed that the rank and file could completely reclaim the ALP with only about 50,000 new members. These new members could take the framework of the party and reposition it away from neoliberalism and back to the original imperative of the party."
didn't they just bust the CCP for doing just that. ; )
Blowin wrote:Indo, you know I’m impartial when it comes to politics and reject the tribalism of the parties and assess each purely on their merits?
Well mate , I’m here to tell you that Scummo and his band of merry rorters are the most blatantly selfish and corrupt federal politicians I’ve ever seen. They are a proper fucking disgrace. They’ve achieved a couple of ways, such as determining we should live with covid, but even then it was for the wrong reasons ie appease their donor masters instead of acknowledging the reality of covid.
Australia is a much, much worse place for the Summo government. Unfortunately the ALP are basically Sugar Free Pepsi to Scummocchio’s Coke. Same basic beholden- to donors neoliberal flavour but the ruination of the IPA sugar is replaced by the destruction of the Unrepresentative Union artificial sweeteners.
You might see things during Covid in a negative light, but can you imagine how things would have been under Labor????
Do you think things would have been more or less over the top???
Here's a clue just look at the Labor states Victoria, WA, QLD see a common theme???.
Its actually quite scary to consider because Australia has been seen to have some of the most draconian measures in regards to intentional travel restrictions, lockdowns, vax mandates.
It hard to imagine it being more over the top and still being legal.
velocityjohnno wrote:I see parallels to Trump being voted out, which made no sense at the time from here. The stories of Biden motivating 82million or so votes, when he scraped to get a few hundred people at speeches, while Trump was pulling 10's of thousands... .
I agree Albo looks like our version of Biden, just a little bit more awake, but still didn't get the each way Albo tag for nothing, voted in because the only other option, and then 6 months latter everyone wondering what they have done.
"Indo, you know I’m impartial when it comes to politics and reject the tribalism of the parties and assess each purely on their merits?
Well mate , I’m here to tell you that Scummo and his band of merry rorters are the most blatantly selfish and corrupt federal politicians I’ve ever seen. They are a proper fucking disgrace. They’ve achieved a couple of ways, such as determining we should live with covid, but even then it was for the wrong reasons ie appease their donor masters instead of acknowledging the reality of covid..."
yep, the success with covid indo speaks of is pure fucking fluke rather than any form of good management.
now, the labor lubbers will spit their coffee at the suggestion of any success with covid, but the objective measures indo points to are proof of some form of success...
even the vaccine roll out labor lubbers love to bag was a form of success, the 'stroll out' was pure ideoligical penny pinching from scomo, hands off hose market fundamentalism... but our geography and the one thing he did get right - slamming borders shut - saved our arse and allowed a much more measured appraisal and uptake of vaccines, avoiding some of the fears and problems elsewhere...
his billions to millionaires who dont requre it stimulus has proven to be bloody shameful, with no attempt at all to rein it in, or correct it. he introduced it under the cover of billions to plebs, that basically bamboozled the normal critics, so they totally missed the harvey norman welfare scheme, until it was too late...
and his pushes to open up right through the pandemic have been purely ideologically driven, answering to his business masters, rather than any prudent assrssment...
but the resistance to all this - which did serve us well initially - was also labor being overly ideologically driven... it created a good balance in the beginning, but...
but, the latent authoritarianism in the 'commies' totally overstepped the mark, ...and continues to do so... in a strikingly stubborn manner, where large swathes of 'the left' seem totally detached from reality... whether this is now ideological, 'bureaucratic inertia', tds, populism, being too bought in, or plain saving face... I do not know... probably all of the above...
where indo annoys me with his blind faith, is totally overlooking the debt the lnp have racked up for this supposed 'successful economy'... totally not fitting with lnp ideology... but probably fitting under the circumstances...
where this debt annoys me, is 'the better economic managers' have just totally squandered it and any long term opportunities / sustainability that should have come with it... they blew it big time!!
and just exaccerbated a whole heap of already prevelant problems in the process
covid was scary at the start, it was an unknown, and it required a massive response from a few generations of people that had never experienced such requirements...
the 'leftist' response was undoubtedly the right one initially (...ignoring all their dangerous identity politics rubbish...) so, -a big health respone -cash injections -giving people the means to stay home, -the big state in full effect... etc.
but once the initial shock was overcome, these policies have become totally burdensome and counter productive
and that is where scotty's 'success' comes in... more fluke than management... -a desperate push to open because of business pressure, -a curtailing of invasive government powers, -requiring some self responsibility, ...government getting the fuck out of people's lives... became the required antidote... to an overbearing solution..
it's been pretty much the same the western world over... boris, trump, scomo, sweden etc. . all seemed reckless in their push to keep business and economy open, keep things 'normal', ...and keeping freedoms etc., ...very libertarian... very ideological... but they got shut down, berated, and beaten into submission...
but then, as knowledge grew, and conditions changed... and as the lefts ideological proclivities took over, ...and they became the norm... which served it's purpose... until it didn't....
and by then left had gotten a little comfortable with all that power, a little righteous, a little beligerent, whatever the issue... combative in debate... (or moreso, the 'not' debate...)
history is now showing the virus is not that bad, not now at least... with knowledge, treatments, vaccines...
and we did overeact, considerably, which was fine in the beginning, it was the right response...
but now the required response has changed... with a free-ing up being the right course, a loosening of rules, powers, and a return to normal from a hyper-controlled big state position...
it's now the right's time...
but those powers aren't given up easily, and it seems boris trump and scomo beaten into submission wasn't such a bad place to be...
pure fluke, but the right balance, as messy as it was...
and now, that is labor's dilemma...
Agree. Federal government during covid under ALP would be have been an outrage of the worst possible juxtaposition of limp wristed theatre and hard arsed authoritarianism.
We were only saved from the Scummo government by their dedication to serving their profit motivated masters and their complete lack,of concern for the Australian people, which perversely worked in the people’s favour by resisting the most onerous shouts to go deeper with the tyranny disguised as public health.
Apart from that the LNP have been worse than I’d have thought possible for an Australian government.
Come on mate- they pushed regular people towards suicide when chasing unsubstantiated robodebt accusations of a few hundred dollars then through out $40,000,000.00 towards their corporate donors who refuse to pay tax in the first place.
The mind truly boggles at the breadth and depth of the malignancy of the LNP party.
indo-dreaming wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:I see parallels to Trump being voted out, which made no sense at the time from here. The stories of Biden motivating 82million or so votes, when he scraped to get a few hundred people at speeches, while Trump was pulling 10's of thousands... .
I agree Albo looks like our version of Biden, just a little bit more awake, but still didn't get the each way Albo tag for nothing, voted in because the only other option, and then 6 months latter everyone wondering what they have done.
Uggghh…..Albo.
FFS.
Why?
In regards to Alfreds post.
I’m a retired tradie of 35years, everything I’ve read in previous forums on mostly political topics, paints me this visual picture. What I’ve aforementioned is a complete description of Liberal/conservative people in in my eyes, yes a big generalisation I know, but it’s true, nearly all my clients of 35 years sounded, looked and thought like you, simply don’t have the brains to think about anything thing less than protecting there assets. I once worked for one of your kind, the guy wanted red gum posts in the job and I remarked I don’t use a rapidly disappearing species just to make a paling fence, he said “I don’t care if it’s the last fucking red gum tree on the planet, I want red gum, I said BYE.
This is voting with your feet. More of this when possible and if individually desired. Walking the talk Alfred. Enjoy your retirement. Yes another tradie may have finished the job maybe. But it's the ethical choice of resisting that on mass can change attitudes and behaviour. Vote with where you take your buisness and what you consume. Take your power back. And take a fucking stand.
velocityjohnno wrote:flollo wrote:An original concept of free markets is to allow buyers and sellers to negotiate their own prices without government intervention. I believe in that concept.
flollo go take a look at the entire interest rate and bond markets. It's appalling. A free market it ain't.
Haha, agreed. It's a joke. That's my point, that same crowd will act as defenders of free markets however, it's nothing like that. Stu asked a question about what's next like it's unknown? I don't think it's unknown. The transition between medieval and modern times was characterised by the transition from feudalism to capitalism. However, it appears that we are drifting back into some modern version of fedualism.
And that's what I would love to see labor go to the election with. Who will defend fair competition in the marketplace? Who will ensure that we as a society benefit from growing markets? I know LNP won't. But labor doesn't seem to be too interested either...If they could come up with a clear-cut framework on giving equal opportunity for people to work, start and grow business, own their property it's game over for LNP.
Blowin wrote:Relating in a more direct manner to Slater’s attitude is the opinion I heard from a commenter over at Macrobusiness who claimed that the rank and file could completely reclaim the ALP with only about 50,000 new members. These new members could take the framework of the party and reposition it away from neoliberalism and back to the original imperative of the party.
That’s a lot less individuals than it would take to achieve outright control of Gove for any new political party. It would also be a unifying and signifying event reclaiming a part of Australia’s cultural heritage from those who’ve hijacked it and subverted it against Australia’s interest.
50,000 new members and we could tell the current mob filling the chairs and drawing a salary for voting against the working class. Look where the state ALP have taken us if you want to see where the federal equivalent is headed.
Any ALP politician who pushes for privatisation or weaponised mass immigration is an enemy of the people and the halls of the ALP are stacked with them.
They need to be routed by a grass roots rejection of their pro - capital ideology.
clives got 80 000!
so... not that hard...
Im half joking, but your post, and clive's numbers, show just how easy this 'taking our country (party) back' business could be...
stunet wrote:For those who remember, in the mid-nineties the ASP World Tour was in turmoil, mainly owing to a rolling list of sponsors, questionable locations, and a judging criteria that no-one could quite figure out - airs were so new no-one really knew how to reward them.
Rebel tours were announced, some even made it to the planning stage, and somewhere in the mix Kelly said, paraphrasing, "Change either gets forced from the outside, or you take hold of the reins and create change it from within."
History shows KS took a greater role as a surfer rep, judges legitimised airs, and better locations were sought spawning the Dream Tour. He changed it from within.
That quote by Slater is relevant though, as it has been across the ages.
No-one knows what the next order after neoliberalism is going to be, it doesn't have a name yet, or even a distinct shape, however, the drive to reduced globalism, increased sovereignty is upon us. How it plays out, a slow and controlled change from within, or an ugly and violent revolution, will be decided through politics.
The spear point is breeching American society now and it'll get worse. Same goes UK. Continued on the same path we'll be there soon too, and if you believe that's just scaremongering then you're a very poor student of history.
Point being, what we're seeing in the US is the result of one end to the 'no such thing as society', free market, liberalism - the ugly and violent revolution. Think that's crazy? Ask Ray Dalio, a cool-headed investor who made his fortune predicting human behaviour, who now believes America is heading for civil war.
The LNP has American liberalism stamped into its DNA; the free market will always prevail, small government is better, regulation is red tape etc etc etc. Those same mantras got America to where it is now.
Labor has a great many faults but it's our best hope to, as KS said (and did), "take hold of the reins and create change from within." Peaceful change. Spread wealth, avoid creating an underclass, create regulatory frameworks that protect our environment, rid Canberra of lobbyists, and politics of corruption. Some of those goals were evident in Shorten's platform.
Apologies for the surf/politics mash up, but the one thing I'm absolutely sure of is that the current course, the one being set by those with their hands on the tiller, will end in disaster.
PS: As bad as it is, eschewing the two-party system will only empower one side.
I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you stu - everything I've seen points towards the fact that moving away from a two-party system is the best way towards a better, more representative version of democracy.
We always point to Julia Gillard as a very successful prime minister, and why?
Because she was forced to negotiate to form and maintain a minority government, and she did so very well.
Dispersion of power and having a number of parties better representing an increasingly diverse electorate is one of the keys to healthy politics and a functional society.
I kind of agree when you say further societal division will most benefit the LNP but it's something we need to work through.
Australians are steadily moving away from the two majors and have been for some time, we need to provide for this and hopefully not in the form of populists like Hanson and Palmer, although acknowledging and identifying types such as those may be a necessary phase.
"Stu asked a question about what's next like it's unknown? I don't think it's unknown. The transition between medieval and modern times was characterised by the transition from feudalism to capitalism. However, it appears that we are drifting back into some modern version of fedualism."
digital feudalism I've heard some throwing around...
things like UBI sound enticing... almost inevitable... but...
@AndyM I fully agree with what you said. Most parliaments in Europe have many political parties which provide a more balanced outcome.
evolve or stagnate
Constance B Gibson wrote:Clive's advertising millions at work!
See Mrs Marsh, it does get in!
hardly...
clive's numbers are purely a result of covid overeach, of many kinds...
dunno if he's spent much on advertising and that
he doesn't need to... the covidphiles do his work for him...
I’m happy for new people to have a go but Labor has a habit of getting into tons of debt then the libs get in and pay it back…a cycle we’ve seen over and over for years…so, how do you think they will go with tons of liberal COVID debt for a change when they start out. It’s going to be tough for them even with good intentions. I think you guys are going to be paying shitloads more in tax and probably even when you die as that is another thing they are famous for.
I’m retired so it’s no big deal for me but I dunno …..my kids already pay a fair bit of tax and I’d hate to see them have any more stress on their budgets….for that reason and that reason only, I’ll be voting for the LNP again because I want frydenburg to sort out the mess in a cunning clever way not a taxing way….but by all means I’ll be looking for some decent independents to throw into the mix as well because it’s true we need to break up the big govt monopolies and spread the power.
flollo wrote:@AndyM I fully agree with what you said. Most parliaments in Europe have many political parties which provide a more balanced outcome.
Exactly.
I'll say it again, 9 out of 10 of the least corrupt and most functional countries are multi party systems.
Meanwhile, Britain, the U.S. and Australia are shit shows.
Evolve or we get more of the same, or worse.
indo-dreaming wrote:Because now LNP have done all the hard lifting got us through the worst of Covid with the economy very healthy considering, with one of the lowest Covid death rates in the world, and one of the highest vax rates in the world, and the Labor are just going to claim all the good work done and have very little challenges to deal with.
.
Correction, the states did and are still doing all the heavy lifting re COVID, Feds SFA or late again.
Indo the federal LNP made matters worse from start to finish, from taking an eternity to close the international border at the start of 2020 through to the RAT debacle.
This goes to the heart of today’s discussion on this thread and dovetails perfectly with the Taibbi article.
Essential
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa HAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
He's linking Tucker Carson now.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
I focus wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Because now LNP have done all the hard lifting got us through the worst of Covid with the economy very healthy considering, with one of the lowest Covid death rates in the world, and one of the highest vax rates in the world, and the Labor are just going to claim all the good work done and have very little challenges to deal with.
.
Correction, the states did and are still doing all the heavy lifting re COVID, Feds SFA or late again.
Not true.
Federal Government was the one who closed the borders and implemented hotel quarantine and it was the government who ran programs like Job keeper to keep the economy going and rolled out vaccines.
The government is like a big department store, federal government is the management at the top and the states are like each department with managers and staff, although they have their areas to look after in theory they should all work together as a team.
The problem is we have a system where half the states think they are working for K-mart and half the states think they are working for Big W.
And then we have so called leaders like Dan Andrews that are as useless as a work experience kid, setting alight his whole department and fools thinking he is a hero when he puts it out, and management going WTF have you done.
Vic Local wrote:Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa HAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
He's linking Tucker Carson now.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
Yeah, if you’re trying to avoid looking like a hysterical old kook, that’s probably not the best way to go about it bloke.
indo-dreaming wrote:I focus wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Because now LNP have done all the hard lifting got us through the worst of Covid with the economy very healthy considering, with one of the lowest Covid death rates in the world, and one of the highest vax rates in the world, and the Labor are just going to claim all the good work done and have very little challenges to deal with.
.
Correction, the states did and are still doing all the heavy lifting re COVID, Feds SFA or late again.
Not true.
Federal Government was the one who closed the borders and implemented hotel quarantine and it was the government who ran programs like Job keeper to keep the economy going and rolled out vaccines.
The government is like a big department store, federal government is the management at the top and the states are like each department with managers and staff, although they have their areas to look after in theory they should all work together as a team.
The problem is we have a system where half the states think they are working for K-mart and half the states think they are working for Big W.
And then we have so called leaders like Dan Andrews that are as useless as a work experience kid, setting alight his whole department and fools thinking he is a hero when he puts it out, and management going WTF have you done.
Dictator Dan is personally responsible for the worst outcomes in Australia.
The most deaths directly arising from political incompetence and corruption, the most deaths full stop, the most tyrannical and draconian covid measures in the developed world, the most devastation to the lives of individuals, society and the economy.
If Dictator Dan had been Prime Minister we would still be stuck in the March 2020 mindset.
AndyM wrote:Indo the federal LNP made matters worse from start to finish, from taking an eternity to close the international border at the start of 2020 through to the RAT debacle.
What garbage Australia closed border's March 20th just after NZ and USA & Canada etc
But many countries didn't close borders until late March early April like Indonesia April 25th
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/6/3/coronavirus-travel-restrictions-...
Let's not kid ourselves ID.
The Fed govt did not do any of the heavy lifting, and everything they touched was a fuck up.
Sure they handed out a truck load of tax payers cash, but that's the easiest thing in the world for a politician to do. The states did all the track and tracing, HQ, medical care, border management, and picked up the pieces of the aged care farce.
Here's a partial list of things the LNP screwed up re covid.
1. Back in March 2020 Scumo was going to the footy and telling everyone to carry on as normal.
2. Ruby princess
3. They abdicated their role in quarantine to the states
4. No fit for purpose quarantine facilities built.
5.Vaccine stroll out
6. They joined clive palmer in his attempt to open up WA borders
7. Vaccine Stroll out.
8. RAT fiasco.
9. Aged care fiasco (2 fucking years in and they still have done nothing)
10. Failing to have any job keeper claw back mechanism for businesses doing very well with covid. There's a lazy $40 billion fuck up.
11. The covid safe app, which saw a bunch of tax dollars end up in his mate's pockets for a useless app.
Scumo's the most incompetent PM ever. He's a better ukulele player than PM.
indo-dreaming wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:I see parallels to Trump being voted out, which made no sense at the time from here. The stories of Biden motivating 82million or so votes, when he scraped to get a few hundred people at speeches, while Trump was pulling 10's of thousands... .
I agree Albo looks like our version of Biden, just a little bit more awake, but still didn't get the each way Albo tag for nothing, voted in because the only other option, and then 6 months latter everyone wondering what they have done.
Yeah Indo, and that may well come to pass. I remember well the 'what have they done' moment during Rudd-Gillard-Rudd and then the instability. Fun times.
flollo wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:flollo wrote:An original concept of free markets is to allow buyers and sellers to negotiate their own prices without government intervention. I believe in that concept.
flollo go take a look at the entire interest rate and bond markets. It's appalling. A free market it ain't.
Haha, agreed. It's a joke. That's my point, that same crowd will act as defenders of free markets however, it's nothing like that. Stu asked a question about what's next like it's unknown? I don't think it's unknown. The transition between medieval and modern times was characterised by the transition from feudalism to capitalism. However, it appears that we are drifting back into some modern version of fedualism.
And that's what I would love to see labor go to the election with. Who will defend fair competition in the marketplace? Who will ensure that we as a society benefit from growing markets? I know LNP won't. But labor doesn't seem to be too interested either...If they could come up with a clear-cut framework on giving equal opportunity for people to work, start and grow business, own their property it's game over for LNP.
Great post, agree.
Lots of great commentary and debate today. Best independent news service on the internet!
I think the above suggestion of multi-party democracies is spot on.
stunet wrote:No-one knows what the next order after neoliberalism is going to be, it doesn't have a name yet, or even a distinct shape, however, the drive to reduced globalism, increased sovereignty is upon us...
Do you have any further speculations about the direction(s) the political-economic-sociological ideology may take in the future?
What directions would you like to see it take?
velocityjohnno wrote:flollo go take a look at the entire interest rate and bond markets. It's appalling. A free market it ain't.
flollo wrote:Haha, agreed. It's a joke. That's my point, that same crowd will act as defenders of free markets however, it's nothing like that.
Just wondering what exactly you guys are getting at here? I once sat on a bond trading desk for a small part of my career.
flollo wrote:Stu asked a question about what's next like it's unknown? I don't think it's unknown. The transition between medieval and modern times was characterised by the transition from feudalism to capitalism. However, it appears that we are drifting back into some modern version of fedualism.
I'd suggest we're spiralling head first, at a blistering pace, into a cross between a corporatocracy and plutocracy. The US is not a democracy.
I actually recently finished reading the book The History of European Liberalism (can be read here but I randomly noticed it in a 2nd hand bookstore). Quite an unbelievably enlightening read (apart from the style of language in 1927: sentences way too long, overuse of the semicolon ";" etc).
The core values and spirit of liberalism and freedom are disappearing from our "democracies", particularly during covid. Actually the term liberalism is now being misused and no longer reflects its core spirit.
Vic Local wrote:Let's not kid ourselves ID.
The Fed govt did not do any of the heavy lifting, and everything they touched was a fuck up.
Sure they handed out a truck load of tax payers cash, but that's the easiest thing in the world for a politician to do. The states did all the track and tracing, HQ, medical care, border management, and picked up the pieces of the aged care farce.
Here's a partial list of things the LNP screwed up re covid.
1. Back in March 2020 Scumo was going to the footy and telling everyone to carry on as normal.
2. Ruby princess
3. They abdicated their role in quarantine to the states
4. No fit for purpose quarantine facilities built.
5.Vaccine stroll out
6. They joined clive palmer in his attempt to open up WA borders
7. Vaccine Stroll out.
8. RAT fiasco.
9. Aged care fiasco (2 fucking years in and they still have done nothing)
10. Failing to have any job keeper claw back mechanism for businesses doing very well with covid. There's a lazy $40 billion fuck up.
11. The covid safe app, which saw a bunch of tax dollars end up in his mate's pockets for a useless app.
Scumo's the most incompetent PM ever. He's a better ukulele player than PM.
You are so full of shit, end of the day it's the results that matter and our results are among the best in the world.
Death rates per million, we rank 73 out of 223 for lowest for perspective the only developing countries that have done better are New Zealand 18, Singapore 68, Iceland 69 and Japan 70, most below that are African countries or remote island states.
We rank at 173 deaths per million, for worst is Peru at 6,156 per million
Again one of the highest vax rates in the world.
And economically done better than most of the world
1. Nobody knew at that stage what the future would hold and yes not causing undue panic is not a bad idea.
2. Ruby Princess was a stuff up by NSW health and state government but to be fair it was very early in the pandemic.
3. Hotel Quarantine: They did what made sense and got the states to actually do something, most states did a great job and listened to suggestions given, Dan Andrews though being the complete wanker he is decided to do things his way and fucked it all up.
4. Quarantine centres, ha ha really? You are still clinging onto this outdated idea?
What countries have built them during Covid?...even NZ found them not to be viable.
The aim has always been to open to the world and not live in a bubble forever, it would have been a huge waste of money.
5 & 7. There was shitloads of AZ and Pfizer hit our shores just before it hit NZ shores which goes to show you supply went where it was most needed which of course makes sense.
6. Now look at WA, basically still caged :(
8. RAT's honestly a storm in a tea cup a first world problem, missus got some pretty early, havent even used one yet.
9. Death rates in aged care from Covid are low compared to many countries, there is no magic pill to prevent Covid entering aged care and never will be unless you want to lock them in their rooms and not even allow family to visit, which wouldn't surprise me if you supported that idea.
10. Totally ignoring how successful the Job keeper program was.
11. Covid app had to be tried like it was in many countries like Singapore, if it hadn't been tried and places like Singapore had success, people like you would be whinging pointing fingers saying why didnt we also roll out and app.
There was always going to be bumps along the way, every single country on earth has had issues, most much bigger than us, and our end results are among the best in the world. (well not the end yet, but hopefully that's light at the end of the tunnel)
velocityjohnno][quote=flollo wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:flollo wrote:An original concept of free markets is to allow buyers and sellers to negotiate their own prices without government intervention. I believe in that concept.
flollo go take a look at the entire interest rate and bond markets. It's appalling. A free market it ain't.
Haha, agreed. It's a joke. That's my point, that same crowd will act as defenders of free markets however, it's nothing like that. Stu asked a question about what's next like it's unknown? I don't think it's unknown. The transition between medieval and modern times was characterised by the transition from feudalism to capitalism. However, it appears that we are drifting back into some modern version of fedualism.
And that's what I would love to see labor go to the election with. Who will defend fair competition in the marketplace? Who will ensure that we as a society benefit from growing markets? I know LNP won't. But labor doesn't seem to be too interested either...If they could come up with a clear-cut framework on giving equal opportunity for people to work, start and grow business, own their property it's game over for LNP.
We all already benefit it's whether you make the most of the opportunity or not, it's why real estate prices are so high all over Australia without people benefiting and being successful this would not happen.
The picture you guys want to paint just doesn't actually reflect reality.
You people always mix up the fact that equal opportunity doesn't equate to equal outcome, never has never will.
info proving yet again the old adage give the stupid enough rope and they will hang themselves
Troll
Hey ID my responses to your rubbish are in CAPS.
You are so full of shit, end of the day it's the results that matter and our results are among the best in the world. OUR LESS SHIT RESULTS WERE DESPITE SCUMO NOT BECAUSE OF HIM
Death rates per million, we rank 73 out of 223 for lowest for perspective the only developing countries that have done better are New Zealand 18, Singapore 68, Iceland 69 and Japan 70, most below that are African countries or remote island states.
We rank at 173 deaths per million, for worst is Peru at 6,156 per million. OUR DEATH RATES ARE DUE TO THE FACT WE ARE AN ISLAND AND HAVE FIRST WORLD MEDICAL FACILITIES. NOTHING TO DO WITH SCUMO.
Again one of the highest vax rates in the world. DELIVERED LATE BY SCUMO AND WELL DONE TO THE AUSSIE PUBLIC AND STATE GOVTS WHO DID MOST OF THE WORK DELIVERING THEM
And economically done better than most of the world. DEBT DEBT DEBT. BEING ISOLATED CERTAINLY HELPED TOO.
1. Nobody knew at that stage what the future would hold and yes not causing undue panic is not a bad idea. RUBBISH. IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE EXCEPT SCUMO COVID WAS SERIOUS. HE WAS OFF TO THE FOOTY UNTIL NSW AND VIC PULLED THE LOCKDOWN TRIGGER.
2. Ruby Princess was a stuff up by NSW health and state government but to be fair it was very early in the pandemic. QUARANTINE AND BORDERS ARE FED RESPONSIBILITY. GLADYS AND SCUMO TO BLAME.
3. Hotel Quarantine: They did what made sense and got the states to actually do something, most states did a great job and listened to suggestions given, Dan Andrews though being the complete wanker he is decided to do things his way and fucked it all up. FED RESPONSIBILITY DUMPED ON THE STATES, SCUMO LANDED PLANES 48 HOURS LATER. THANKS SCUMO. HE CAME TO THE TABLE WITH ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BECAUSE HE'S ESSENTIALLY A LAZY FUCKER.
4. Quarantine centres, ha ha really? You are still clinging onto this outdated idea?
What countries have built them during Covid?...even NZ found them not to be viable.
The aim has always been to open to the world and not live in a bubble forever, it would have been a huge waste of money. 2 FUCKING YEARS AND NOTHING BUILT. THESE CENTRES WOULD HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY HANDY AND THEY ALSO WOULD HAVE BEEN USEFUL DURING FUTURE NATURAL DISASTERS AND FOR DV VICTIMS
5 & 7. There was shitloads of AZ and Pfizer hit our shores just before it hit NZ shores which goes to show you supply went where it was most needed which of course makes sense. BULLSHIT, WE STARTED GETTING VACCINES 6 MONTHS AFTER EUROPE AND North America. SCUMO DROPPED THE BALL. EVERYONE KNOWS IT EXCEPT YOU.
6. Now look at WA, basically still caged :( THEY HAD THEIR SECOND DEATH. THEIR BORDER RESTRICTIONS BOUGHT TIME ALLOWING HIGH LEVELS OF VACCINE AND BETTER TREATMENTS WHEN PEOPLE GET COVID. THEIR ECONOMY FAIRED WELL TOO COMPARED TO EASTERN STATES.
8. RAT's honestly a storm in a tea cup a first world problem, missus got some pretty early, havent even used one yet. BULLSHIT. THE LET IT RIP MOB DIDNT DO ANY PRE-PLANNING AND PEOPLE DIED AND BUSINESSES GOT CRUSHED BECAUSE WE COULDN'T TEST AND ISOLATE. NOT A STORM IN A TEA CUP. A MAJOR LETHAL FUCK UP.
9. Death rates in aged care from Covid are low compared to many countries, there is no magic pill to prevent Covid entering aged care and never will be unless you want to lock them in their rooms and not even allow family to visit, which wouldn't surprise me if you supported that idea. BULLSHIT. PRIVATE AGED CARE HAS BEEN AN ABSOLUTE FIASCO AND EVERYONE COULD SEE IT COMING. STATE GOVERNMENT RUN AGED CARE PLANNED FOR THE OBVIOUS AND IT'S NOT IN CHAOS LIKE THE FED REGULATED PRIVATE RUN SYSTEM.
10. Totally ignoring how successful the Job keeper program was. HANDING OUT MONEY IS EASY. JOSH PISSED AWAY $40BIL. WHO DO YOU THINK ENDS UP PAYING FOR THAT CHAMP. $40 BILLION FUCKUP RIGHT THERE. IT WILL TAKE A GENERATION TO PAY THAT BACK AND YOUR MOB WILL CRY LIKE CHILDREN WHEN TAXES GO UP TO PAY FOR JOSH'S FUCK UP
11. Covid app had to be tried like it was in many countries like Singapore, if it hadn't been tried and places like Singapore had success, people like you would be whinging pointing fingers saying why didnt we also roll out and app. JUST ANOTHER ROLLED GOLD FUCKUP THAT ENRICHED SCUMO'S MATES AND DELIVERED NO BENEFIT TO AUSTRALIA. SCUMO'S PRAISE FOR THE APP WAS ALSO VERY DANGEROUS.
There was always going to be bumps along the way, every single country on earth has had issues, most much bigger than us, and our end results are among the best in the world. (well not the end yet, but hopefully that's light at the end of the tunnel) LIKE I SAID, OUR RESULTS WERE GOOD DESPITE SCUMO AND HIS CLOWNS NOT BECAUSE OF THEM. HATS OFF TO ALL THE STATE GOVTS WHO DID A GOOD JOB UNTIL THE "LET IT RIP AND DON'T DO ANY CONTINGENCY PLANNING" MOB GOT THEIR WAY.
Labor and their supporters are dreaming if they think they will win the next election. Zero chance.
"You people always mix up the fact that equal opportunity doesn't equate to equal outcome, never has never will."
NO WE DON'T INDO. That's just pure drivel.
what your shitful mob is doing is making sure there's even more unequal opportunity in Australia. The LNP have absolutely gutted the public education and university system. Free or cheap high quality education is the most effective way poor kids can get ahead.
Whitlam's greatest legacy was opening up universities to everyone and getting more women tertiary educated.
Your scumbag mob have slugged uni students making it extremely hard for kids from poor backgrounds to get into higher education. Meanwhile private school funding goes through the roof and those rich kids won't have much trouble getting into the housing market because we are about to see a massive flow of money from rich boomers to their kids and grandkids.
If you genuinely believed in equality of opportunity you'd be calling for an inheritance tax which went to fund much better vocational training. I don't see too many of the "country club capitalists" in the LNP and voters like you calling for "death taxes". Those posh kids get a leg up don't they champ. Meanwhile talented poor kids struggle to get ahead.
gsco wrote:Just wondering what exactly you guys are getting at here? I once sat on a bond trading desk for a small part of my career.
Hi GSCO it's stuff like this, 1 day old:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/bank-japan-offers-buy-unlimited-10-yea...
It's been threatened before:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-bonds-idUSKBN19S0YI
I'd welcome any bond discussion from you. This is the kind of thing I've been seeing for over a decade, and I've seen the exasperation of traders who ruefully ask to have free markets back.
Roadkill wrote:Labor and their supporters are dreaming if they think they will win the next election. Zero chance.
I actually disagree RK. I have a lot of friends that voted LNP last election, some are die hards, but they are fed up with Scumo and his shitfuckery, they are now voting ALP, some for the first time ever.
Many still have the same questions as me, why isn't he selling himself and the party better.
And look how pathetic VL is getting above, getting all shouty to get his point across. I clearly remember him ripping into others not so long ago doing the same. Such a sad little man boy.
fitzroy-21 wrote:Roadkill wrote:Labor and their supporters are dreaming if they think they will win the next election. Zero chance.
I actually disagree RK. I have a lot of friends that voted LNP last election, some are die hards, but they are fed up with Scumo and his shitfuckery and voting ALP, some for the first time ever.
Many still have the same questions as me, why isn't he selling himself and the party better.
If Labor were quality and had a great leader…they would walk-in. The majority don’t see Labor as worthy of governing. LNP will remain in power by default. State labor parties do nothing to enhance the Labor brand. Guilt by association is one of Labor's problems. The status quo will prevail.
The majority are pretty happy how AUS has weathered covid…this is why the LNP will remain in power.
I am not an LNP fanboy in any way. (Scomo, is a really poor character and shows no real empathy or anything likeable).
Here you go info don’t get too excited ...
Guy showing his usual leftist class.
Roadkill wrote:If Labor were quality and had a great leader…they would walk-in. The majority don’t see Labor as worthy of governing. LNP will remain in power by default. State labor parties do nothing to enhance the Labor brand. Guilt by association is one of Labor's problems. The status quo will prevail.
The majority are pretty happy how AUS has weathered covid…this is why the LNP will remain in power.
I am not an LNP fanboy in any way. (Scomo, is a really poor character and shows no real empathy or anything likeable).
McGowan last poll was at 70% approval rating there are only 2 sitting members in the lower house for the Liberal party, the Christian right have taken over the state Liberal party and its a real mess.
After backing Palmer, slagging McGowan and WA generally the Coalition are really on the nose here I'd be very surprised if the Coalition don't drop seats here in the west.
You guys are already the crawling butt-hurt and the election is still months away.
Interesting to compare the pre-political careers of our leaders in Vic and Canberra.
Andrews initially worked as a research and political officer, before being elected to the Victorian Legislative Assembly at the 2002 election for the seat of Mulgrave. He was later appointed to the Ministry by Premier Steve Bracks in 2006, before being promoted by Premier John Brumby.
Albanese was born in Sydney and attended St Mary's Cathedral College, before going on to the University of Sydney to study economics. He joined the Labor Party as a student, and before entering parliament worked as a party official and research officer.
Morrison was born in Sydney and studied economic geography at the University of New South Wales. He worked as director of the New Zealand Office of Tourism and Sport from 1998 to 2000 and was managing director of Tourism Australia from 2004 to 2006.
Prior to entering parliament, Matthew Guy was a ministerial adviser to Liberal Premier Jeff Kennett and to the Assistant Federal Treasurer, Senator Rod Kemp. He was also the chief of staff to Denis Napthine during his period as opposition leader.[5]
He has also worked for the Victorian Farmers Federation[6] and for the Australian Securities and Investments Commission[3] and is a member of the St Kilda Saints, the South Sydney Rabbitohs, Radio 3RRR and the National Trust of Victoria.[7]
Someone once said 'if you can't do, teach'. Might apply to politics too.
Ol’ Johnny boy has been getting some mentions. Something from the archive to remember him by..
Language warning….
https://soundcloud.com/rowdyrobey/john-howard-old-one-but-a-good?utm_sou...
indo-dreaming wrote:We all already benefit it's whether you make the most of the opportunity or not, it's why real estate prices are so high all over Australia without people benefiting and being successful this would not happen.
The picture you guys want to paint just doesn't actually reflect reality.
You people always mix up the fact that equal opportunity doesn't equate to equal outcome, never has never will.
Real estate prices are also high because interest rates have been manipulated to 5000 year lows by massive interventions in bond markets. A free market, I wonder what the going interest rate would actually be? And concurrently, what the actual house prices would be, especially in relation to wages?
I focus wrote:Roadkill wrote:If Labor were quality and had a great leader…they would walk-in. The majority don’t see Labor as worthy of governing. LNP will remain in power by default. State labor parties do nothing to enhance the Labor brand. Guilt by association is one of Labor's problems. The status quo will prevail.
The majority are pretty happy how AUS has weathered covid…this is why the LNP will remain in power.
I am not an LNP fanboy in any way. (Scomo, is a really poor character and shows no real empathy or anything likeable).
McGowan last poll was at 70% approval rating there are only 2 sitting members in the lower house for the Liberal party, the Christian right have taken over the state Liberal party and its a real mess.
After backing Palmer, slagging McGowan and WA generally the Coalition are really on the nose here I'd be very surprised if the Coalition don't drop seats here in the west.
It's always interesting to see where the campaign cash is getting spent to understand where the internal polling is placed.
Currently the Libs are heaving money at seats like Kooyong and Goldstein because they must be fearing the independents. Labor are keeping the powder dry in marginal ALP held Corangamite.
Libs desperately need their polling to improve to attract more cash. No point giving "donations" to a party destined for the opposition benches. If they heave cash at advertising early, and the polls don't improve, they will run out of money. Clive might even float them some $$$ because the last thing that fat employee ripping off bastard wants is a Labor govt.
When an election is a forgone conclusion (2001, 2004, 2007, 2013) there's always a point in time when the major parties give up and shift the spend to save the furniture.
It will be really interesting to see how much the Libs spend in the WA seats. I suspect WA will be the first state where they chuck in the towel. Conversely, if the ALP start heaving cash at Tassie and Melbourne seats, they might be struggling.
Palmer will be painting the town yellow in a desperate attempt to get 5% of the vote and steer the idiots to the LNP via preferences. I wouldn't be shocked if he financially helped out other micro parties to improve the UAP's chances of winning a senate seat or getting a LNP candidate up in a marginal electorate. We are talking about paying for t-shirts, how to vote cards and $20 ph to "volunteers" working for broke micro-parties. Stooges swapping party t shirts at polling centres happens all the time.
My gut feel is, if the Libs polling doesn't turn around really quickly, they will run out of cash and get absolutely flogged. But hey, I got it wrong last time like everyone else. Scumo's mob didn't expect to win ether and it showed big time.
Roadkill wrote:fitzroy-21 wrote:Roadkill wrote:Labor and their supporters are dreaming if they think they will win the next election. Zero chance.
I actually disagree RK. I have a lot of friends that voted LNP last election, some are die hards, but they are fed up with Scumo and his shitfuckery and voting ALP, some for the first time ever.
Many still have the same questions as me, why isn't he selling himself and the party better.
If Labor were quality and had a great leader…they would walk-in. The majority don’t see Labor as worthy of governing. LNP will remain in power by default. State labor parties do nothing to enhance the Labor brand. Guilt by association is one of Labor's problems. The status quo will prevail.
The majority are pretty happy how AUS has weathered covid…this is why the LNP will remain in power.
I am not an LNP fanboy in any way. (Scomo, is a really poor character and shows no real empathy or anything likeable).
Six months ago i would have said they were a shoe in, like seriously who could see Albo being PM?
But i just think there is way too much going against them at the moment and people and media aren't focusing on the positives achieved but focused on the negatives and LNP haven't helped themselves in the last few weeks with in party issues.
It's also been almost nine years since Labor were in, and the longer you go on the harder you get judged and the more people start thinking the grass is maybe greener, and think, argh maybe lets give the other guy a go,
But hey it's not over until its over, its a long shot but a lot can still happen in a few months, Labor also have skeletons in the closet lets hope as we get closer to an election some of these pop out.
Long term I dont think there is anything to worry about though, Labor will have two terms max, like you said most people dont see them worthy of governing, and sooner or latter they will fall back into their old ways of pandering to minority groups and forgetting the majority and just trying to please the whole woke mob and the Greens, and most sane people can't stand the Greens.
Or Indo, you could say that since Turnbull got stabbed in the back, the LNP government has been an absolute shit show because Scumo is just pathetic. His only real talent is failing up. Scumo has green lighted corruption on a massive scale, and his ministerial team are either incompetent, corrupt or both. Half his backbenchers are just fucking loopy.
The Libs don't deserve another term because they aren't just incompetent and corrupt, they are cynical in the extreme as well. They've spent 9 years saying they would introduce an ICAC and they still haven't done it, because you know, most of them are corrupt and don't plan to spend their retirement getting prosecuted.
Their latest piece of legislation (which thankfully died) was just a cynical attempt to fire up their evangelical base at the expense of vulnerable kids.
Indo, The reason they are trailing so badly in the polls is because they are immoral, corrupt and just fucking hopeless at their jobs.
Watching the Winter Olympics and Clive Palmer has bought 2 slots in virtually every break. That's serious $$$$$ being thrown around.
They would probably work well on some of the anti-vax cookers on this site. Wouldn't be shocked if a few yellow ads started replacing the phone ads on this page soon.
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