The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
soggydog wrote:Persistent, consistent, predictable. Not for turning, no inflection. That’s why Indo is best ignored. Which is hard since he is on a mission to outpost all and any conflicting viewpoints. No matter how based in racist fascism his posts normally are. A true cheerleader of the cunts. Bravo!
I just wish you people would ignore my post, but you cant help yourself.
I make one post and and literally half an hour latter i have half a dozen people commenting outraged that there is a view that they dont agree with being aired.
Nooooooo i cant hear views i oppose...stop with that logic.....take me back to my protected social media bubble..
You want people treated equally and not based on race?....
OMG you are a racist and a fascist.
I did get a giggle out of the fascist thing, so ironic these days when the left call others fascist.
Hollywood… fox news… and…
haha (cheers soggydog)…
‘A true cheerleader of the cunts.’
;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUUbW9udHkgcHl0aG9uIHN0dXBpZCA%3D “A true cheerleader of the cunts.“
I hope this sticks.
Needs a white board duster...Voice Voters Flick to ABC 24...Yes now!
tbb caught this program this morning ...
Reffo [X] coming up in a minute...Watch how Dutto marks his box...
Just stepping back in to say thanks for the positive responses and best wishes. Nothing like a bit of support from strangers to make you feel good about life and restore a bit of faith.
Southern Raw, thanks mate, but you got it wrong, I'm no saint, I'm a card carrying sinner from way back. The sinners have all the fun!
Probably gonna step away from this shit for a bit. Don't think it helps either Indo's or my own mental health to be at each others throats every day, plus I've been surfing so much this year I need to do some work or I'll go broke.
But you never know, if he starts grinding my gears like he does, or I have something to contribute, like Arnie "I'll be back". Until then keep fighting the good fight boys.
Are you eligible to sit in Parliament?
Dutto's Legit Voting Form...Yes [X]
Parliamentary Scrutineer : Old School but that's a [Formal Vote] One of Us!
AEC : "Dutto is bullying us to count all YES [X] Votes in Reffo!"
indo-dreaming wrote:soggydog wrote:A true cheerleader of the cunts. Bravo!
I just wish you people would ignore my post, but you cant help yourself.
You absolutely fuckn lonely love it.
Understandably, some swellnet subscribers (me included) don't like top spot in this thread (a spot you seem to covet) being dedicated to your one-man mission to 'balance' a thing no-one asked you to 'balance'. There's forums for that, but as you have said, swellnet is mostly a progressive, left, yes, kinda thing. And you are in charge of what? You don't subscribe, but it is your job to steer it? We are all subjected to your puppet-show version of boring ponies who stick their head on social media or telly? Who gives a shit. You make it seem like a sport grand final.
Who knows what conversations may have taken place among yes, no, confused, frustrated, curious, enthused people? But no. No oxygen, no subtle, gentle, Australian conversation, involving subtle ideas and thoughts for the first people who lived here. No-one knows what may have gone down in this thread if it had been championed by people who had skin in the game, or knew something about the real people, rather than re-chirruping of the black-mirror sock-puppets that any bozo can see by turning on a device.
Shame, Indo.
Late shift...just checking back to previous page...now tbb is back on the same page.
Sad to hear adam12...salute for sharing yer strength & love + crew for supporting.
tbb shared a while back that his daughter's chemo only made things worse & the cancer had spread.
Family prepared for the worst..
Left hangin' at breaking point for a few short weeks...offer yer own & everything in the world!
Thankfully the readings were masked by a lesser secondary illness...cancer was receding!
Good health to adam12 & family + crew...extra thanks for pulling that up & calling it out!
There is a line & we all know where that is & when & where it gets crossed...All say Aye!
all the best to you and your family ttb
southernraw wrote:sameaswas wrote:southernraw wrote:@sameaswas, just in regards to your second last post;
Have you seen the documentary, 'In my Blood it Runs'?
Great doco that follows the life of a young indigenous boy.
When you're looking at positively changing the generational trauma, i think this is a better place to start in the healing process.
Looking through the eyes of a young fella who's living it.
Check it out if you get the chance. It's on various streaming services.s.r. eventually looked up doco about 3yrs of 10yr old, yikes! 1hr 24mins no way.
so i looked at the summary's or comments what it was about.
one of em said it highlighted the failure of the education system for fnp, what? don't turn up to school?
are you aware that scomo's mob in their last year passed a bill for 4 lodgeing high schools to be built in 4 isolated regions to house and feed isolated communities kids? there are parents driveing up to 3-4 hrs a day to take kids to school, unfrknblvble but true.
albo has canned 2 of those schools and no mention by m.s.m. or a.b.c. or the voice elites...hypocrites me thinks.
allso scomo's mob passed a bill where all employees on fnp communities must eventually be aborigine, health, educators, social workers, police etc etc. locals have priority. good idea imo.
so they put the feelers out...local, could'nt find ppl with education to suit the training.
so the govt went ok lets try the city fnp...city, yes more sucess but no way they wanted to work outback when training complete.Hey mate. Yeah its probably worth watching to get context.
One of the threads i took from it was that institionalised education that has been the way in this country for 200 odd years is failing these kids and theres a better way for them that includes a going back to their roots and traditional spiritual connections to empower them, get a sense of belonging again in a country they feel alienated, and then build on their formal education from that platform. Something i think is terrific and a great foundation moving forward. I would consider this a good form of reparation...tweaking the education system to be more inclusive and focused on bringing them back closer to a sense of belonging and purpose.
@adam12 youre a saint. I dunno how you do it. That was some of the most vile stuff ive ever seen this morning.
As for my thoughts since its been raised.
Hes an absolute bottom dweller that brings nothing but calamity and white noise ( no pun intended) to this conversation.
Glad youre doing well and getting waves Adam12.
anarchy in the fnp isolated communities, children being indoctrinated into a racist attitude towards white ppl in preschool, 4-5yr olds, check out my post on previous page.
1997 jack thompson (actor, breaker morant) on camera at garma(?) festival saying children don't have to be bilingual, speak english if fnp.
parents not sending children to school, toxic d.v. all around em and accepted by "community".
basesix wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:soggydog wrote:A true cheerleader of the cunts. Bravo!
I just wish you people would ignore my post, but you cant help yourself.
You absolutely fuckn lonely love it.
Understandably, some swellnet subscribers (me included) don't like top spot in this thread (a spot you seem to covet) being dedicated to your one-man mission to 'balance' a thing no-one asked you to 'balance'. There's forums for that, but as you have said, swellnet is mostly a progressive, left, yes, kinda thing. And you are in charge of what? You don't subscribe, but it is your job to steer it? We are all subjected to your puppet-show version of boring ponies who stick their head on social media or telly? Who gives a shit. You make it seem like a sport grand final.
Who knows what conversations may have taken place among yes, no, confused, frustrated, curious, enthused people? But no. No oxygen, no subtle, gentle, Australian conversation, involving subtle ideas and thoughts for the first people who lived here. No-one knows what may have gone down in this thread if it had been championed by people who had skin in the game, or knew something about the real people, rather than re-chirruping of the black-mirror sock-puppets that any bozo can see by turning on a device.
Shame, Indo.
Okay clearly you want my attention and a reply.
Basically what you are saying is i don't like to hear opinions or views that dont align with mine.
Look dude just be thankfully that this forum is super left leaning, in the real world its pretty much a 50/50 mix and view on things like the voice are very diverse.
Imagine that, imagine if you actually had to hear all kinds of views that dont align with yours and your group actually copped shit instead of just bullying and abusing individuals like me trying to silence them.
No shame dude just a differing view to yours.
Who would have thunked this
https://662bodyboardshop.com/collections/accessories/stickers
A bodyboarder
indo-dreaming wrote:basesix wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:soggydog wrote:A true cheerleader of the cunts. Bravo!
I just wish you people would ignore my post, but you cant help yourself.
You absolutely fuckn lonely love it.
Understandably, some swellnet subscribers (me included) don't like top spot in this thread (a spot you seem to covet) being dedicated to your one-man mission to 'balance' a thing no-one asked you to 'balance'. There's forums for that, but as you have said, swellnet is mostly a progressive, left, yes, kinda thing. And you are in charge of what? You don't subscribe, but it is your job to steer it? We are all subjected to your puppet-show version of boring ponies who stick their head on social media or telly? Who gives a shit. You make it seem like a sport grand final.
Who knows what conversations may have taken place among yes, no, confused, frustrated, curious, enthused people? But no. No oxygen, no subtle, gentle, Australian conversation, involving subtle ideas and thoughts for the first people who lived here. No-one knows what may have gone down in this thread if it had been championed by people who had skin in the game, or knew something about the real people, rather than re-chirruping of the black-mirror sock-puppets that any bozo can see by turning on a device.
Shame, Indo.
Okay clearly you want my attention and a reply.
Basically what you are saying is i don't like to hear opinions or views that dont align with mine.
Look dude just be thankfully that this forum is super left leaning, in the real world its pretty much a 50/50 mix and view on things like the voice are very diverse.
Imagine that, imagine if you actually had to hear all kinds of views that dont align with yours and your group actually copped shit instead of just bullying and abusing individuals like me trying to silence them.
No shame dude just a differing view to yours.
From what I've seen here, people like adam12 LOVE informed debate. As I said to you (seems like years ago), I seek out those with different opinions, so I can get to the crux of my views.. always been pretty fair in our dealings, huh?
I actually like your gormless honesty, I find it refreshing (I don't know many people like you, but know they are out there), and got sucked into believing you were conversing, and capable of change, like many others have. I would vote no in a heartbeat if you could show me the stakeholders wanted that. It is not an issue that I would normally insert myself into. FNP business, in my opinion.
Not much interested in your attention on this thread, just have seen you chew through some pretty robust people who give up with mental-fatigue. I think that is unfair. This is a surf-forecasting website, the little sandpit in the bottom right-hand corner is basically a watermans' front bar we all wished we lived near. The fact that you exhaust those who drink there through this thread, AND get your drinks from an esky in the car is freaking bizarre.
Other threads, no worries, I tried the blue dye for my ongoing polygala problem, and agree, it is satisfying. Cheers for that.
Watch this post wash that C-bomb off the homepage.
geez, the 'debate' is going well...
aside from a brief flutter with legal arguments, probably months ago now, there is none!
lots of convincing going on though...
back slapping and convincing of one's self righteousness positions that is
what a miserable situation
lots of talk of misinformation, lots of projection of misinformation...
blame, shame, and more blame
and virtually no chatter of what matters to voters
divisive tribal politics at its best
well done labor... thats how you have framed this 'debate' from the get go...
"what do people think of indod?"
to quote a wise old poster - who is clearly left biased, vote biased - and that clearly likes to stay out of the negativity and name calling...
"much ado about nothing"
indod is so bloody moderate he is boring...
(despite guysmiley spending about ten years trying to paint him as some far right nutter...)
you guys seem some of the miserable shit getting around on twitter etc.?
now that is some right wing (racist) nastyness!
the yes camp seem totally oblivious as to what they are doing
in politics of old, there was a 10-15% cohort of swinging voters. ...the 'job', the goal... was to harness this small percentage onto your side
in contenporary politics, the rusted on partisans are more like 30%, rather than the rusted on 40 to 45% of yore....
that leaves a 40% cohort of swingers that need convincing
that's a lot of swinging up for grabs!
that's a lot of convincing!
this applies to the two party system, but it'd be pretty fair to apply it to the voice vote as well
there has been no effort whatsoever, none... like really really none, nada, zilcho... to even try to sway the swingers
just miserable partisan tribalism all the way...
if you want to apply to swingers...
ie. if you actually want to win this thing
it's guys like olddog and sameas who's concerns you need to address
but there is no effort whatsoever to even go there...
labor, and yes camp, have stifled debate, to the point of settting it in partisan, not gonna go there, quick set concrete stone, in terms of what will be debated - and what a waste of 18 months that has been!!
to the point where even the yes camp now seem so under pressure, that EVERBODY just wishes it was all over, and would all just go away...
this has got to be the biggrst exercise in wasting of political energy ever!
aaaw sypkan talking to himself again!
much like you guy/s
It's actually not a complete waste of political energy, it has distracted the rusted on labor voters from thinking about the Govt's complete lack of action on the real issues that actually matter to people of all colors and creeds. Like the cost of living.
Review of [YES] [NO] backers should take the heat outta this...
Almost as secret & sinister as the Green Ant Star Chamber...Oopsie...too soon!
tbb was gonna run all 3 [_/] [-] [X] together but needs a whole page...
This Version has ALP default [YES] + [L] Outcasts + Corps / Sports / Religion!
Voice {YES} 23
Shaq : "Ya simply Vote for yer Loudest #23 Athlete!"
https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_860...
True! ABC News Today...Aborigines don't know about mystical [yes] or [23] or [X] or Shaq?
Albo : [ If not Now then When!] When do we want it! [ Whenever yer ready is fine! ]
https://www.yes23.com.au/
Experts : Deploying Howard's finest Spin Doctors
Strategy : Keep it simple by delaying Reffo for record direct enrolment in Aboriginal Fed swing seats.
Likes : Shaq + Running 'round Oz / Going Walkabout / Tripping over two left feet
Ok! tbb was having a laugh...or was he? (Bloody Shit Stirrer!)
Here's wot the crew were hangin' out for...
Introducing the biggest [YES] Campaign Oz has ever seen.
The [YES] Men
X [L] PMs + [L] Party Leaders :
Nelson (Apologist) / Turnbull / Bishop + Hewson
Nat Cab..Tas [L] Rockliff +
[L] Opposition Premier : NSW [L] Speakman
X [L] Premiers : (NSW) Gladys / Dom (Tas) Gutwein (ACT) Carnell
13 Political Parties + [L] WA / Tas + [np] NSW
9 Fed Independents
38 Council Mayor's Voice Declaration + Full Councils (5 Vic / 2 SA / 1 NSW)
8/10 Mega Giants (Roar!!)
Magnates : $1m VISI / $2m Rio Tinto $2m BHP + 1 more in the wings...maybe!
Banks : CBA / NAB / ANZ
Corps : Qantas / Atlassian
Foodies : Wesfarmers / Woolies / Coles
Albo : $10,500
SA Law Society
Universities (41) = [YES] 23 [?] 18 [NO] 0
https://www.smh.com.au/national/where-do-universities-stand-on-the-voice...
Trade Unions (Many)
Charities (Many)
Religious (Many) - Not to be confused with (Religious Lobby Groups)
Sport : (20 codes)
Games Mobs / Footy / Cricket / Netball / Tennis / Golf / Basketball / Baseball / Boxing
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/may/26/australia-sport-codes-unit...
[YES] Vote support is strangely lacking in Media representation thru Surfing / Arts Culture.
Hodads in the crew will be shocked...as this would be Voice bread'n'butter [YES]
This swellnet [YES] review is oddly a rare shout out to legendary Artists
Concerts...Patchwork of vagabonds but no Big Names are steppin' up!
Musos : GANGgajang / Shane Howard / Paul Kelly / Jodie (Clouds) / Alt legends Dave Graney +Clare
Comedians : Mike Fleet
TV : Joe Hildebrand
Actors : Jack Thompson / Cate Blanchett
Director : R.Perkins
Too bloody right the [YES] camp recorded a shit hot Voice Song.
Check Surfboards in Oz Coat of Arms...Wotz that about...(Wow! Lock in a Double Hodad remix)
GANGgajang : Speak to Me (Jack Thompson / Indigenous remix)...
Top Shelf ... need more Hodad's steppin' up like this...please! Now we got a proper Reffo!
totally olddog
they might not be noticing...
but the non rusty voters certainly are
that redbridge campaign strategist dude says thiis is having a real noticeable effect on the vote now
that, and labor's absolutely woeful "abysmal campaign"
that started way way back with the shaq
a non indig. celebrity that is not even australian!
he said this, and the focus on all the business ceo's, elite media types, and academics, gave an air of a totally not grassroots indigenous movement
seems they've done little to correct this course
labor and their fukn celebrity obsessions!
just bloody sad really
both says a lot about them, and the obvious contempt they harbour for the electorate...
Oh the injustice!!!!
sypkan wrote:geez, the 'debate' is going well...
aside from a brief flutter with legal arguments, probably months ago now, there is none!
lots of convincing going on though...
back slapping and convincing of one's self righteousness positions that is
what a miserable situation
lots of talk of misinformation, lots of projection of misinformation...
blame, shame, and more blame
and virtually no chatter of what matters to voters
divisive tribal politics at its best
well done labor... thats how you have framed this 'debate' from the get go...
Sypkan. Hi. As you are doing exactly as Indo does, grabbing snippets and quotes laid down elsewhere. What about some genuine input and thoughts of your OWN ?
What’s your Magnus Opus , Einstein. ? (If you know what that is )
Give us your own genuine thoughts and views, not a facsimile of others.
Or are you another couch potato, keyboard commentator with your hand permanently in a box of Cheezels, with the bottom cut out, if you know what I mean.
If you are going to criticise people for their writings and posting of it, by all means hit us between the eyes with your best dissertation.
I’ll await with baited breath, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting…
No wonder we can never get things right in this country, just a heap of oscillating clown figures at the Show, mouths agape, saying don’t ask me I don’t know, just waiting for someone to throw the ball in one of ya gobs.
For fuck sake. Don’t get me started on that infantile comment, “What about the cost of living “, spend less you clowns. AW
I don't want to sound like Indos fan boy as I often disagree with his views, but everywhere I go, even at the lookout checking the surf yesterday I hear good normal people saying the exact same things as him, and yet on here he is bullied and treated like some far right nut job for daring to air the concerns of over half the population. Albo should have designed his pet project first instead of acting so cagey and self-righteous and guilt shaming us to trust in the process whatever that may be. It seems like all he is doing is adding another layer of bureaucracy to soak up all the money before it gets to the coal face. Cheers.
WHAT IS THE ACTUAL THREAT TO AUSTRALIA IF THE YES VOTE GETS UP ?
Hello, anybody out there, anyone home ? I want to know, waiting patiently for answers , are there any answers, no, hmmn, no, no, not yet, still coming, no, none, none….
This whole senseless criticism of a Voice is bordering on cultural xenophobia, disgusting IMO.
I’m still yet to hear one solitary convincing reason as to how it’s not a good thing for our country.
Jump onboard, make ya points, there must be 1000’s of reasons as to why it’s not good for OZ based upon the amount of dialogue since this post started. The suspense is killing me.
Cant wait to hear from you all. AW
AW… haha… ‘spend less you clowns’. Bang on.
- simple solutions for simpletons ;)
Great question regarding the actual threat to Australia…
Is it even actual or just perceived ?
And a little soundtrack for the ‘good normal people’ …
- something to consider to maybe ease all the ‘concerns’ ;)
https://m.
andy-mac wrote:Oh the injustice!!!!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CweeXyBrjxT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Andy-Mac. Sending you a few buckets and mops your way, oh the tears, water level on the rise. More like, Graham ‘Silver’ Fox id say. AW
I gave my position probably over a year ago on this thread mr. wallace
and, I don't really want to go into it, because it would undermine your position - which really is not my intention...
I could give you a host of reasons to vote no...
but I won't... and I also won't be voting no!
the fact is, for anyone who has worked, 'in the field', they've read the endless bullshit mission statements, they know there are endless amounts of bodies that engage aboriginal people's inputs - voices if you will... be it health, education, whatever... they know the huge 'gap' that exists between the langtons and the people of remote communities... they also know what has fed this festering wound...
my issue is with labor taking us to a referendum with a proposal... of no proposal at all...
my issue is with albo's idiotic advisors - that have advised him to pull a shifty...
my issue is with calling a referrendum - a once in a generation opportunity - to achieve 2 thirds of fuck all... a wasted opportunity...
my issue is with the miserable tribal politics, that's all "...trump trump trump ... blah blah blah... misinformation misinformation misinformation..." - that takes two sides to tango...
my real issue is with dirty stinking neoliberalism... that has allowed over 50 ngo groups to materialise in wilcannia... to service a population of a 1000 people!
...reported widely about 5 or 10 years ago in the press, by the press of 'the left' no less, ...not sky news! ... but what has changed? ...fuck all...
my issue is the 100s of billions of dollars a year, that doesn't make it to those in need...
aboriginal people take issue with this too! ... and so they fucking should!!
my issue is the dv
the fasd
the cover up of both!
the permissive policing - that even the elders are calling for an end to...
the absolute mis-fit of contemporay parenting expectations, and various associated 'mandatory' bullshit mechanisms with indig. communities and culture... the very same middle class whitey idealism, that created the first stolen generation...
the absolutely unnecessary hopelessness...
the absolutely disgraceful statistics that are deeper than lib v lab - where BOTH have a LOT to answer for...
you cannot push a supposedly 'modest' change to the constitution on some warm and fuzzy labor 'vibe', without talking about this shit... yet here we are...
they're just my thoughts...
but you asked for it
sypkan good posts there.
just done some research on native title claims...currently states have control of all resources and minerals extracted from n.t.c.
yes wins and native title land all becomes freehold. native title claimants own all resources and minerals extracted from lands.
no wonder the yes elite don't want to talk about the implications of the 26pages.
sypkan wrote:I gave my position probably over a year ago on this thread mr. wallace
and, I don't really want to go into it, because it would undermine your position - which really is not my intention...
I could give you a host of reasons to vote no...
but I won't... and I also won't be voting no!
the fact is, for anyone who has worked 'in the field', they've read the endless bullshit mission statements, they know there are endless amounts of bodies that egage aboriginal people's inputs - voices if you will... be it health, education, whatever... they know the huge 'gap' that exists between the langtons and the people of remote communities... they also know what has fed this festering wound...
my issue is with labor taking us to a referendum with a proposal... of no proposal at all...
my issue is with albo's idiotic advisors - that have advised him to pull a shifty...
my issue is with calling a referrendum - a once in a generation opportunity - to achieve 2 thirds of fuck all... a wasted opportunity...
my issue is the miserable tribal politics, ...that's all... "trump trump trump ... blah blah blah... misinformation misinformation misinformation..." - that takes two sides to tango...
my real issue is dirty stinking neoliberalism... that has allowed over 50 ngo groups to materialise in wilcannia... to service a population of a 1000 people!
...reported widely about 5 or 10 years ago in the press, by the press of 'the left', ...not sky news! ... but what has changed? ...fuck all...
my issue is the 100s of billions of dollars a year, that doesn't make it to those in need...
aboriginal people take issue with this too ... and so they fucking should!
my issue is the dv
the fasd
the cover up of both!
the absolutely unnecessary hopelessness...
the absolutely disgraceful statistics that are deeper than lib v lab - where BOTH have a LOT to answer for...
you cannot push a change to the constitution on some warm and fuzzy labor 'vibe' without talking about this shit... yet here we are...
Sypkan. Thanks for your reply.
Agree on this part, wholeheartedly whether it is previous Conservative or Labor government’s, there is always way too many Anglo or FNP public servants in roles, especially in remote regional areas, some relevant and many irrelevant.
One underlying angst amongst FNP I know, is this continuum, without change from day dot, Anglo folk telling or making decisions or deciding what THEY think is best for FNP or know what they want, need etc.
It does their heads in.
I’ve read over the last 30 years and with word of mouth from my partner who has spent the same time working with them, about the very high numbers of FNP who have taken up Jehovahs Witness as their religion.
It was a surprise, to say the least. It’s noted that so many FNP are part of JW especially in FNQ, NSW.
I once asked an old fella why, his reply didn’t surprise me, he said it was just one of the last glimmers of hope for his people,how sad, i don’t blame them.
This whole panic over this matter (Voice) is infuriating me, people cannot simply look away from their own personal needs.
Thanks for your reply and robust discussion. All the best AW.
Seems Anthony Mundine is a Sovereign No voter, although he seems to have a mix of views that also align with the standard No camp.
Good points on the payment thing through, i cant believe there hasn't been more talk on this, what a scam to give people money so called grants($15K) to support the Yes vote.
Not sure if he is really such a great ambassador though, always talked a lot of shit, but i guess he does have some experience from coming from a hard background and helped a lot of city indigenous kids through different programs.
PS. In a rush now but will answer your question latter AW
Hang on AW, you just abused Syp, alluded to him self-gratifying, questioned his intelligence and now you're thanking him for a 'robust discussion'?
zenagain wrote:Hang on AW, you just abused Syp, alluded to him self-gratifying, questioned his intelligence and now you're thanking him for a 'robust discussion'?
Zenagain. Yes I did. On reflection, over the top. I will apologise to Sypkan today.
Im sincerely tiring of the push and excuses from most that no one can explain to me why
it’s NOT a good thing for Australia to give FNP a Voice.
Again, what is wrong with Australians and our society.
Greedy, had it too good for too long.
I’m unaware you are a moderator. AW.
sypkan wrote:I gave my position probably over a year ago on this thread mr. wallace
and, I don't really want to go into it, because it would undermine your position - which really is not my intention...
I could give you a host of reasons to vote no...
but I won't... and I also won't be voting no!
the fact is, for anyone who has worked, 'in the field', they've read the endless bullshit mission statements, they know there are endless amounts of bodies that engage aboriginal people's inputs - voices if you will... be it health, education, whatever... they know the huge 'gap' that exists between the langtons and the people of remote communities... they also know what has fed this festering wound...
my issue is with labor taking us to a referendum with a proposal... of no proposal at all...
my issue is with albo's idiotic advisors - that have advised him to pull a shifty...
my issue is with calling a referrendum - a once in a generation opportunity - to achieve 2 thirds of fuck all... a wasted opportunity...
my issue is with the miserable tribal politics, that's all "...trump trump trump ... blah blah blah... misinformation misinformation misinformation..." - that takes two sides to tango...
my real issue is with dirty stinking neoliberalism... that has allowed over 50 ngo groups to materialise in wilcannia... to service a population of a 1000 people!
...reported widely about 5 or 10 years ago in the press, by the press of 'the left' no less, ...not sky news! ... but what has changed? ...fuck all...
my issue is the 100s of billions of dollars a year, that doesn't make it to those in need...
aboriginal people take issue with this too! ... and so they fucking should!!
my issue is the dv
the fasd
the cover up of both!
the permissive policing - that even the elders are calling for an end to...
the absolute mis-fit of contemporay parenting expectations, and various associated 'mandatory' bullshit mechanisms with indig. communities and culture... the very same middle class whitey idealism, that created the first stolen generation...
the absolutely unnecessary hopelessness...
the absolutely disgraceful statistics that are deeper than lib v lab - where BOTH have a LOT to answer for...
you cannot push a supposedly 'modest' change to the constitution on some warm and fuzzy labor 'vibe', without talking about this shit... yet here we are...
they're just my thoughts...
but you asked for it
Sypkan. I personally apologise to you today, for being a bit over top with my comment/reply to you yesterday evening. You offered your view and I smothered it, not good diplomacy.
Prior to dinner, ‘hangry’, didn’t put brain into gear before engaging my mouth.
I’m in a state of disbelief and disappointment about the attitude of most Australians regarding the matter discussed.
All the best AW.
I'm not a moderator. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.
Edit- well done AW. And if I ever show you the same discourtesy I would ask that you point that out to me.
zenagain wrote:I'm not a moderator. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.
Edit- well done AW. And if I ever show you the same discourtesy I would ask that you point that out to me.
Thanks Zen, you are our voice of reason.
At my age I should do better, I’ll strive to be better with word choices , i get a little excited about matters that can make or break my heart. AW
indo-dreaming wrote:Seems Anthony Mundine is a Sovereign No voter, although he seems to have a mix of views that also align with the standard No camp.
Good points on the payment thing through, i cant believe there hasn't been more talk on this, what a scam to give people money so called grants($15K) to support the Yes vote.
Not sure if he is really such a great ambassador though, always talked a lot of shit, but i guess he does have some experience from coming from a hard background and helped a lot of city indigenous kids through different programs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBAdtYR0ats
PS. In a rush now but will answer your question latter AW
Indo. Don’t bother, you just cut and paste everything, it’s relentless.
It highlights nothing, your out sourcing and YouTube clips, you must be on their payroll , you are like a ‘shock-jock’.
Please offer me up ‘Your’ views, not someone else’s ideologies.
How about some genuine thoughts of your own, not others.
Like, what I’ve been asking from subscribers (which you are not) and still yet to receive a plausible explanation as to why it’s NOT good for Australia to give FNP a Voice.
Wouldn’t you think, after knocking off their country in the first place, that its fair and reasonable to consider that they should have a Voice and be part of the Constitution for the country in which we reside.
It can only be good for all of us.
The only element of society that’s preventing that is selfishness.
Again, send me ‘cut and paste’ crap, you’ll get no reply from me. AW
All good AW. It's an emotional debate.
Have a good one.
I'm going surfing- it's pumping here. Yesterday too. Hope you're getting a few.
The truth why Indigenous Australians don’t have a ‘voice’ is called colonialism. It’s that simple. And some colonials still want that enshrined. Globally. Even i-d’s ‘ilk’ at 3 poles and seaford.
Zen, when the sweet i-d called my wife a money grabbing whore, and openly had a go at her on here, after threatening to come and assault me (which I welcomed with open arms but he suddenly went M I A), where was all your ‘voice of reason’. Yeh yeh, I heard a little chirp, but let’s not play fucking smarmy games like the drivvling rabbit in the headlights nuttle also did, this is my wife that was targeted by hidden people, from a distance, and freely discussed on here, just as her and her whole family were just recently, by basesix. To ‘get’ me. That says everything to me about the ‘core’, the ‘reason’ of those people and anyone who is in the slightest remotely on board with them. I have zero time for them, or threats.
This drivvling, smarmy bullshit about ‘albo’, this and that, is just that. You can either see what ‘colonialism’ was and is, a disgusting, inhuman blight on humanity, and give those human beings that had their voices and every skerrick of humanity so brutally and despicably stolen from them, a skerrick of their humanity back, a voice, for starters. Or play your ‘poor little guilt shamed colonials’ card’. The boot is still across Indigenous Australians throat, the guns are still loaded, so you have the disgusting privilege of hiding behind them, knowing that even that pissweak card is a winning hand.
And you can either easily see what Indigenous Australian Cultures were and are, the evidence is all there in bucket loads. The astounding brilliance of their human story, including their lack of parading and championing war and inequality, or ‘colonialism’. Or turn a blind, smarmy, terrified colonial eye to Indigenous Australians and keep the colonial boot across their throat so that they never get a voice.
I’m out of here, the foul stench of the place.
Smellnet, the gift that keeps on giving.
https://m.
Jelly Flater wrote:
JF. Very good. Even Indo gets a mention.AW
shit, BUD, that explains the snarkin. I don't know you or your family, and I don't go 'round disrespecting people's loved ones.
(my mention of you in that post was in reference to your description of Elliston infrastructure being contracted out, and the resulting financial effects on a rural community)
I was describing 20/30 year olds on 10 day packages that are refusing to let magical bits of the world go post-capitalism, by treating fishermen as chauffeurs and making sure there's no bintang left. I don't go back to some of the most beautiful places, where I have made beautiful friends, cos I can see the pain that poor-associations-with-outside-visitors now causes some traditionalists in their own villages.
Some people travel humbly and respectfully, some do not, was my only point.
Welcome to the club Basesix.
Being able to lift heavy things doesn't preclude someone from having a persecution complex.
Who knows, they might even be linked?
Just like twin fins nuttle, you smarmy little cunt.
Yes, just like twin fins. Another thing that gets you incredibly riled up.
“ … You can either see what ‘colonialism’ was and is, a disgusting, inhuman blight on humanity, and give those human beings that had their voices and every skerrick of humanity so brutally and despicably stolen from them, a skerrick of their humanity back, a voice, for starters…..”
“… And you can either easily see what Indigenous Australian Cultures were and are, the evidence is all there in bucket loads. The astounding brilliance of their human story, including their lack of parading and championing war and inequality, or ‘colonialism’…..”
Powerful truthful words Bud1
So you are still smarmily clinging to that I wasn’t threatened, my wife, and in fact her whole family wasn’t insulted, and many times before, even though plenty of people, including zen’s little chirp, tried to point it out to you.
Twin fins? You got a website, you da man! I had my first taste of deleted posts when I pointed out that you sell surfing down the shute.
Anyway don’t send any more emails, I’m out of here, smarm away in peace.
Thanks guy, and thanks for standing up for my wife back then, so it comes as no surprise that nuttle supports i-d openly threatening you, as I and others have pointed out. I hope we meet one-day, if not have a good one!
Bud1 wrote:So you are still smarmily clinging to that I wasn’t threatened, my wife, and in fact her whole family wasn’t insulted, and many times before, even though plenty of people, including zen’s little chirp, tried to point it out to you.
Twin fins? You got a website, you da man! I had my first taste of deleted posts when I pointed out that you sell surfing down the shute.
Anyway don’t send any more emails, I’m out of here, smarm away in peace.
Emails? Not from me...
Anyway, one last time: No-one even knew your wife was Asian, I sure didn't, and most wouldn't have even known your name let alone your wife's heritage, yet if it's one thing you've shown in your repeat appearances on here it's that you have an uncanny ability to bend everything to your narrative.
Perhaps that's where your real strength lies? Not eggs or deadlifts, but manufacturing drama. Ride on, snowflake.
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28