The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

bluediamond started the topic in

Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

indo-dreaming Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 5:47pm

AndyM wrote:
Indo show me the non-whites in government (especially the LNP), and in the top levels of corporate power.
Let me help you, and I'll say it slow so you can keep up.

In a Proudly Diverse Australia, White People Still Run Almost Everything.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/world/australia/study-diversity-multi...

Roughly 94 percent of Parliament is of Anglo-Celtic or European heritage and among Australia’s federal and state government department heads, the homogeneity is even more pronounced: 99 percent of the leadership is Anglo-Celtic or European.

Ya follow?

Complete tripe

indo-dreaming Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 5:50pm

AndyM wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
sypkan wrote:
comes down to how much you think 'communism', 'marxism', and 'socialism' are the big bad boogeyman I guess indod...

a little bit of socialism ain't all bad for most people indod

but 'neo marxism' seems to have most defintely gone all weird and wayward though...

a little bit of socialism is how oz used to be...

and the loss of this is often lamented by the likes of gsco and others - who love to throw a bit of 'woke mind virus' out there....

strange times we are living in

Each to their own but there's a few groups i have little to no trust in.

1. Politician's
2. Activist
3. Anyone who thinks communism or marxist ideas are a good thing.

All three seem to involved in the voice.

Indo could you please help me out - how are communist and/or Marxist ideas involved in The Voice?

You are terrible at reading things, thats not what i said.

I said i dont trust those types of groups/people.

There is people on the voice community that openly look up to communist or marxist or those ideals.

Mario Speedwagon Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 5:58pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
I just wish you people would ignore my post, but you cant help yourself.

Sounds like sound fucking advice, good people. And easy to do! Goes for the other 'look-at-me', space-consuming, oxygen-thieving trolls on this thread as well.

Howzabout it?

The barrel's bottom has been scraped right through, yes?

Win win.

indo-dreaming Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 6:28pm

Mario Speedwagon wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
I just wish you people would ignore my post, but you cant help yourself.

Sounds like sound fucking advice, good people. And easy to do! Goes for the other 'look-at-me', space-consuming, oxygen-thieving trolls on this thread as well.

Howzabout it?

The barrel's bottom has been scraped right through, yes?

Win win.

So who do we have here?

BTW. Just because people don't hold the views you do doesn't make them trolls, even posting a lot doesn't equal a troll.

Trolling is when people are just trying to get reactions and stir up shit, and dont have any real interest in the topic.

They often dont have much or anything to add to the conversation, they just post silly non relevant memes or videos, or just out to abuse others, often they will just target one poster they dont agree with following them around hounding them trying to shut them down.

adam12 Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 6:36pm

"There is(sic) people on(sic) the voice community that openly look up to communist or marxist or those ideals."
"I said i(sic) dont trust those types of groups/people."

Hahahahaha.
F'kn idiot.
One minute they are "rich city elites", the next they are bolsheviks.
Better check under your bed nuff nuff.

indo-dreaming Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 6:29pm

This above is a troll.

Mario Speedwagon Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 6:35pm

Mario Speedwagon wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
I just wish you people would ignore my post, but you cant help yourself.

Sounds like sound fucking advice, good people. And easy to do! Goes for the other 'look-at-me', space-consuming, oxygen-thieving trolls on this thread as well.

Howzabout it?

The barrel's bottom has been scraped right through, yes?

Win win.

adam12 Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 6:37pm

"This above is a troll."
And you get funnier by the day.
You just don't know it.

Mario Speedwagon Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 6:37pm

"So what are the rights now recognised by both Australia and a large majority of the world’s nation states and their people? One likely to be most contentious in Australia at the moment is that ‘indigenous people have distinctive, collective rights which are indispensable for their existence, well- being and integral development as peoples.’ The argument widely advanced in the current debate is that the Voice provides First Nations with rights that unfairly discriminate against everyone else. Despite its ostensible appeal it is an assertion bypassed by global opinion and international law more than 50 years ago and most notably in Australia by the High Court in 1992 in the Mabo judgement."

https://johnmenadue.com/the-rights-of-indigenous-people/

GuySmiley Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 7:12pm

Arrgghh, liking the cut of your jib there Mario Speedwagon

GuySmiley Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 7:21pm

adam12 wrote:
"There is(sic) people on(sic) the voice community that openly look up to communist or marxist or those ideals."
"I said i(sic) dont trust those types of groups/people."

Hahahahaha.
F'kn idiot.
One minute they are "rich city elites", the next they are bolsheviks.
Better check under your bed nuff nuff.

Any revolutionary knows you need large sums of capital to be a successful bolshevik.

To quote uncle Joseph, Ah the romanticism of revolution!

indo-dreaming Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 7:46pm

GuySmiley wrote:
Arrgghh, liking the cut of your jib there Mario Speedwagon

Just a new Facto account.

adam12 Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 8:28pm

GuySmiley said "Any revolutionary knows you need large sums of capital to be a successful bolshevik.To quote uncle Joseph, Ah the romanticism of revolution!".

Yes Guy, but not large sums of capitalists, the bourgeoisie get it in the neck, the proleteriat fill the void.
I'm just trying to work out who is playing Rasputin in Indo's Voice revolution, Warren Mundine seems crazy enough but just lacks the charisma.

sypkan Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 8:40pm

Im wondering how long it will be before we get a quote from mario speedwagon quoting whitelam scream quoting bumpkin quoting dale cooper quoting factotum quoting talking turkey...

they're a modest troupe

did vj's link mention hubris?

good link that one

AndyM Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 9:47pm

@Indo
"There is people on the voice community that openly look up to communist or marxist or those ideals."

So what's your point?
Do you even know what communism or Marxism is?
Can you give me examples of people who have communist or Marxist views? If you say Albo or Marcia Langton you're showing your ignorance.
What is the relationship between being so-called "far left" and voting Yes being a bad thing?
Fuck you're clutching at straws son, your logic is rooted.
Come the revolution, you'd clearly be with the fascists, there's absolutely no doubt about that.

truebluebasher Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 9:57pm

AEC need 100,000 workers...
This is a breakdown % of AEC Workforce Mandate
Aussies / Aboriginals banned from own Civic Hall + Remote + Regional Ballot Crews
AEC Ban 98.18% of Oz total population
AEC Ban 99.2% of Aboriginal Pop'
AEC mandated Aboriginal Workforce is restricted to 0.03% of 'Total Oz' Voice Reffo Teams!

Correct! Up 2 Date [Multi Vax Combo] compliance Mandate...locks out mostly First Nation participation.
Requirement : Flu / RSV / Covid Vaxes within last 6 months... or you can fuck off!
tbb is guessing very few crew members would be Freshly Multi Vaxed to cruise with AEC Teams

AEC endorses Big Pharma's heavily modified least adaptive workforce...ONE OF US.
With each new Vax - rewards the AEC Android Troops higher access promotion & salary Bonuses.
This is true...each different vax level allows one to sleep with a more billowing blanket of Ballots!
It is illegal for Humans to penetrate the AEC Android's Big Pharma Forceshield...(Mine! Precious!)

28th Aug Natcab rescinded the Cruise Vax
1st Sept Qld rescind Health Vax mandate for 3,000 Health Staff...(Cough!)

That just leaves this Ultra Strict > Super bizarre upgraded AEC Tri / Quaddie Vax Mandate...

Ask!
Why AEC & why no media give a fucking shit about this maniacal Vax upgrade as Covid fades! Huh!
tbb can answer that...
Coz it mostly disadvantages Aborigines...so, as usual, no one sees or cares...why would they!
But this is a Aboriginal Reffo...(Ok!) So now it kicks in...(Exclusive Provisioning Applies!)
AEC will convince folk that 99% vote formal...A simple dash or dic pic is judged formal...
Record provisioning behind closed doors of private residences is afforded to Big Pharma VIP Aliens.

Never has any Govt Boss demanded such a volatile mixed Vaccination combo of unknown effect!
Never in 60 years has tbb known such extreme initiation for a local Civic hall job!
Again! Zombie Media...BRAINZ...ONE OF US!

Joe is also planning to exploit Vax to restrict access to US election Ballots...

AEC Vax Mandate not only remains but ramps next level...
To Lock out mostly Aboriginal & opposing scrutineering!
All can easily see & know this... yet none call it out...tbb is calling it out...
Oz Largest casual employer base > AEC #1 Work Place Racism
AEC Heads must roll for ongoing targeted political interference & race exploitation.

Voice Referendum is #1 Rorted Racist Event in modern Oz History...all know it & yet blindly continue!

PM could & should...
Halt process...
Inform electorate > Conduct Emergency running Voice Race Review.
Prioritize Aborigines of all Voice to have access to translated Voice Booklet.
Overrule AEC slimeball VIP Multi Vax Combo Mandate.
Sack every racist VIP bastard that that rorted the Reffo!
Allow Aborigines to Fully & Equally participate in Whole Voice & provision them for provisions.
or
Play the race card as an excuse to call it off...win buckets of cred! Win! Win!

Anyone continuing with this Voice is just digging deeper next level racism...Wake Up Australia!

tbb is being very reasonable...
ANU : 'AEC puff Aboriginal Enrollment Data by 10-30%'
Less than 50% of Enrolled Aborigines voted last year...list goes on & on...
tbb could up end this can of worms for as long as it takes...it stinks more but we choose to ignore!
Just pretend we're not totally fuckin' obliterating this unique Oz Referendum gifted by our forefathers!
If anarchist tbb is shocked...reckon every Voter must be livid over this Racist Reffo exploitation...'Wot!'

AndyM Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 10:09pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
AndyM wrote:
Indo show me the non-whites in government (especially the LNP), and in the top levels of corporate power.
Let me help you, and I'll say it slow so you can keep up.

In a Proudly Diverse Australia, White People Still Run Almost Everything.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/world/australia/study-diversity-multi...

Roughly 94 percent of Parliament is of Anglo-Celtic or European heritage and among Australia’s federal and state government department heads, the homogeneity is even more pronounced: 99 percent of the leadership is Anglo-Celtic or European.

Ya follow?

Complete tripe

Great rebuttal you turnip.
The AFR states that corporate Australia is 97% Anglo-Celtic or European.
Where are your facts to the contrary or are you trolling again.
Anyway my supposition was that the power structures in Australia are overwhelmingly white and as such, whether subconsciously or consciously, could be resistant to power given over to Indigenous groups.

https://www.afr.com/politics/corporate-australia-is-97pc-angloceltic-or-...

sypkan Thursday, 31 Aug 2023 at 10:51pm

well that is just plain scary tbb

how can the public service still be pushing such bullshit? ...seriously!!

the union should be totally onto that crap

maybe facto and friends, and his union goons could do something...

oh wait... last time i looked he was pushing vaccines for five year olds... so maybe not...

hope you're up and on ya 5th ...6th? booster guysmiley, or no cushy poll booth job for you...

jokes aside, that shit is seriously outrageous!

burleigh Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 6:32am

sypkan wrote:
well that is just plain scary tbb

how can the public service still be pushing such bullshit? ...seriously!!

the union should be totally onto that crap

maybe facto and friends, and his union goons could do something...

oh wait... last time i looked he was pushing vaccines for five year olds... so maybe not...

hope you're up and on ya 5th ...6th? booster guysmiley, or no cushy poll booth job for you...

jokes aside, that shit is seriously outrageous!

They can do it because everyone let them do it. Stok is a prime example.

Next time a new covid happens I really hope people stand up for themselves

gsco Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 6:49am

The Voice is being significantly driven by believers in communism/marxism. They believe it's a first step in bringing down our liberal democracy and market economy, and converting Australia to communism.

VJ already posted a number of links some weeks back. Here's some more:
- https://blog.canberradeclaration.org.au/2023/06/23/communist-sympathies-...
- https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/marxist-radical-a-key-actor-behind-t...
- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12281541/Voice-Parliament-advis...
- https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-transformation-of-thomas-may...
- https://politicom.com.au/voice-not-about-kindness-but-communism/
- https://cpa.org.au/guardian/issue-2040/the-communist-party-of-australia-...
- https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/06/22/pohk-j22.html

The spectre of communism is currently haunting Australia from all angles under the guise of the "progressive left".

Anyone who believes in communist/marxist ideology or thinks that it might work need only look out the window that I'm currently looking out of.

indo-dreaming Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 6:47am

gsco wrote:
The Voice is being significantly driven by believers in communism/marxism. They believe it's a first step in bringing down our liberal democracy and market economy, and converting Australia to communism.

VJ already posted a number of links some weeks back. Here's some more:
- https://blog.canberradeclaration.org.au/2023/06/23/communist-sympathies-...
- https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/marxist-radical-a-key-actor-behind-t...
- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12281541/Voice-Parliament-advis...
- https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-transformation-of-thomas-may...
- https://politicom.com.au/voice-not-about-kindness-but-communism/
- https://cpa.org.au/guardian/issue-2040/the-communist-party-of-australia-...
- https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/06/22/pohk-j22.html

The spectre of communism is currently haunting Australia from all angles under the guise of the "progressive left".

WTF that's crazy

blackers Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 6:55am

Totally crazy.

andy-mac Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 7:10am

indo-dreaming wrote:
gsco wrote:
The Voice is being significantly driven by believers in communism/marxism. They believe it's a first step in bringing down our liberal democracy and market economy, and converting Australia to communism.

VJ already posted a number of links some weeks back. Here's some more:
- https://blog.canberradeclaration.org.au/2023/06/23/communist-sympathies-...
- https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/marxist-radical-a-key-actor-behind-t...
- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12281541/Voice-Parliament-advis...
- https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-transformation-of-thomas-may...
- https://politicom.com.au/voice-not-about-kindness-but-communism/
- https://cpa.org.au/guardian/issue-2040/the-communist-party-of-australia-...
- https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/06/22/pohk-j22.html

The spectre of communism is currently haunting Australia from all angles under the guise of the "progressive left".

WTF that's crazy

Yep crazy if you even start to think that Australia could go down the communist path.
I've got more of a chance of winning next year's wsl title....

Island Bay Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 7:38am

Look to the east and see how much has happened in NZ the last 6 years. People in power are openly saying that we need to "reinterpret" democracy.

indo-dreaming Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 7:48am

andy-mac wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
gsco wrote:
The Voice is being significantly driven by believers in communism/marxism. They believe it's a first step in bringing down our liberal democracy and market economy, and converting Australia to communism.

VJ already posted a number of links some weeks back. Here's some more:
- https://blog.canberradeclaration.org.au/2023/06/23/communist-sympathies-...
- https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/marxist-radical-a-key-actor-behind-t...
- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12281541/Voice-Parliament-advis...
- https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-transformation-of-thomas-may...
- https://politicom.com.au/voice-not-about-kindness-but-communism/
- https://cpa.org.au/guardian/issue-2040/the-communist-party-of-australia-...
- https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/06/22/pohk-j22.html

The spectre of communism is currently haunting Australia from all angles under the guise of the "progressive left".

WTF that's crazy

Yep crazy if you even start to think that Australia could go down the communist path.
I've got more of a chance of winning next year's wsl title....

That wasnt my thoughts.

I only clicked the bottom two links not sure why i started there.

One was "The Communist Party of Australia" i didnt even know there really was a group still, please tell me its not a registered party.

The other was the bottom link "Socialist Alternative organisation"

Im just always blown me away that there really is people that not only believe in these ideals but go to the effort to actively get involved in this way, in exactly the same way it baffles me how a small group of people can think Nazism is somehow good and even go to the effort of crashing protest doing hitler salutes.

Different ends of the spectrum but both baffle and scare me in how people can think.

Anyway i kind of wish i hadn't mentioned the communism thing in reply to Sypkans post yesterday, too much talk on this aspect.

stunet Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 7:52am

Spectre of communism haunting Australia?

Ha ha ha...that old bogeyman. What is this, the 1950s?

In the last century, Australia has never been further away from communism than it is right now. Stage 3 tax cuts kicking in, funding for public institutions on a 40-year decline, public services outsourced to private companies full of ex-public servants, the continuation of privatization ideology, energy companies racketeering our oil and gas resources, in fact energy companies and other large extraction companies set the agenda for our government to follow.

Where the fuck is communism in all this?

Please, bring some of it back. I'd like a swing away from laissez faire globalism, some protectionism to assist our competitive advantages, tilt the free trade agreements now the global south is rising out of poverty.

It's funny that people talking nonsense about rising communism also talk about Australia's golden age post-WW2 till about 1990, which is when globalisation kicked in. The irony is during that period Australia was far closer to communism than it is now.

Spectre of communism...FFS.

AndyM Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 8:34am

Exactly Stu.
What communism?
What socialism?
People have lost their minds.

AndyM Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 8:54am

Those links above are embarrassing, a series of blatant smears and straw clutching with some outrageous false equivalence thrown in.
They come across as transparent and laughable.

gsco Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:01am

The Voice
The Eco Cult
15min cities
Covid lockdown and oppression
Misinformation laws
Infiltration of social media by the left
Persecution of the right side of politics
etc

You’d be blind and deaf to not see the inroads of communism trying to make their way into eroding our free way of life

Anyone who supports any of this Marxist bullshit needs to do some travelling to see the reality of it in countries that tried to make communism work

basesix Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:07am

the more you think that those that don't agree with you, or have alternate views to yours,
are part of a grand plan, of any type, the more you need a serious think about where your head might be at.

san Guine Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:05am

gsco wrote:
The Voice
The Eco Cult
15min cities
Covid lockdown and oppression
Misinformation laws
Infiltration of social media by the left
Persecution of the right side of politics
etc

You’d be blind and deaf to not see the inroads of communism trying to make their way into eroding our free way of life

Anyone who supports any of this Marxist bullshit needs to do some travelling to see the reality of it

Quod erat demonstrandum, communism is taking over the Australia. Next the Woke-communist nexus will be taking away our freedom of speech from the Constitution...oh wait

Michael Adam Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:10am

Communism? What? Where? Who? We LOVE free societies! Just look at how we behaved during the “pandemic”!

flollo Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:13am

indo-dreaming wrote:
AndyM wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
sypkan wrote:
comes down to how much you think 'communism', 'marxism', and 'socialism' are the big bad boogeyman I guess indod...

a little bit of socialism ain't all bad for most people indod

but 'neo marxism' seems to have most defintely gone all weird and wayward though...

a little bit of socialism is how oz used to be...

and the loss of this is often lamented by the likes of gsco and others - who love to throw a bit of 'woke mind virus' out there....

strange times we are living in

Each to their own but there's a few groups i have little to no trust in.

1. Politician's
2. Activist
3. Anyone who thinks communism or marxist ideas are a good thing.

All three seem to involved in the voice.

Indo could you please help me out - how are communist and/or Marxist ideas involved in The Voice?

You are terrible at reading things, thats not what i said.

I said i dont trust those types of groups/people.

There is people on the voice community that openly look up to communist or marxist or those ideals.

I agree with this indo.

AndyM Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:20am

How incredible that we as a society have been conditioned so well that at the mention of the Communism word so many of us still wet the bed.
Forget about Covid, that's where the real control comes in, the hegemony of neoliberalism.

AlfredWallace Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:27am

AndyM wrote:
How incredible that we as a society have been conditioned so well that at the mention of the Communism word so many of us still wet the bed.
Forget about Covid, that's where the real control comes in, the hegemony of neoliberalism.

AndyM. So true. My parents are in their mid 80’s and occasionally refer to that brainwashed period of, ‘don’t forget to look under bed’. They simply laugh these days at how ridiculous it all was. Propaganda gone mad, back then. AW

flollo Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:29am

Absolutely. My family fought directly against communists and hopefully that evil will never resurface again.

basesix Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:36am

#goodnightandgoodluck
awesome true story, for anyone who wants to watch some standing-up-to-McCarthyism captured beautifully in long-lens b & w:

&t=2s

basesix Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:41am

#halfthe97%areofftheirscones

andy-mac Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:38am

stunet wrote:
Spectre of communism haunting Australia?

Ha ha ha...that old bogeyman. What is this, the 1950s?

In the last century, Australia has never been further away from communism than it is right now. Stage 3 tax cuts kicking in, funding for public institutions on a 40-year decline, public services outsourced to private companies full of ex-public servants, the continuation of privatization ideology, energy companies racketeering our oil and gas resources, in fact energy companies and other large extraction companies set the agenda for our government to follow.

Where the fuck is communism in all this?

Please, bring some of it back. I'd like a swing away from laissez faire globalism, some protectionism to assist our competitive advantages, tilt the free trade agreements now the global south is rising out of poverty.

It's funny that people talking nonsense about rising communism also talk about Australia's golden age post-WW2 till about 1990, which is when globalisation kicked in. The irony is during that period Australia was far closer to communism than it is now.

Spectre of communism...FFS.

Yep ...

AlfredWallace Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 9:47am

flollo wrote:
Absolutely. My family fought directly against communists and hopefully that evil will never resurface again.

Follo. I didn’t know that Communists were an actual fighting/military organisation. Really???. . Please enlighten me.

What types of arsenals did they have ? Gabberflasted.AW

AlfredWallace Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:00am

basesix wrote:
#halfthe97%areofftheirscones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXa3gw3g4C4

Basesix. Morning mate. Beautiful. Open up your hearts Australians, if you have one. AW

san Guine Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:01am

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/5f/6d/8e5f6d48de108fdaaa34e4e048870bbc...

AndyM Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:05am

Lemmings if you think that the Voice is going to move Australia one iota towards communism.

san Guine Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:08am

Actually debt slaves beholden to the "hegemony of neo-liberalism'

overthefalls Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:09am

Prepare yourself for more pearl-clutching over the next six weeks. Fear of reds under the beds gave me a good laugh this morning, but then I heard someone say that we'll end up paying rent to the Aborigines if the yes vote gets up. Strange times indeed.

Island Bay Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:20am

For all of you having a smug chuckle over gsco's post, try substituting Communist for Totalitarian. You'd have to be uncommonly obtuse to not have noticed that creep over the last 5 years.

san Guine Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:27am

Island Bay wrote:
For all of you having a smug chuckle over gsco's post, try substituting Communist for Totalitarian. You'd have to be uncommonly obtuse to not have noticed that creep over the last 5 years.

More a guffaw than a smug chuckle : )

AlfredWallace Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:41am

Island Bay wrote:
For all of you having a smug chuckle over gsco's post, try substituting Communist for Totalitarian. You'd have to be uncommonly obtuse to not have noticed that creep over the last 5 years.

IB. It’s all tongue in cheek, you know that.
I cant stop laughing, in fact I’ve spasms of the diaphragm.

If living under ‘control’ is what you are alluding to, well, why don’t you rally people of the same ilk, get a motion to NZ Parliament, apply to establish an enclave or some type of principality and live happily ever after in a ……Communal environment. Just a bit of fun. AW

flollo Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:41am

AlfredWallace wrote:
flollo wrote:
Absolutely. My family fought directly against communists and hopefully that evil will never resurface again.

Follo. I didn’t know that Communists were an actual fighting/military organisation. Really???. . Please enlighten me.

What types of arsenals did they have ? Gabberflasted.AW

That’s a strange question? The examples are endless. Is Khmer Rouge not enough?

AlfredWallace Friday, 1 Sep 2023 at 10:52am

flollo wrote:
AlfredWallace wrote:
flollo wrote:
Absolutely. My family fought directly against communists and hopefully that evil will never resurface again.

Follo. I didn’t know that Communists were an actual fighting/military organisation. Really???. . Please enlighten me.

What types of arsenals did they have ? Gabberflasted.AW

That’s a strange question? The examples are endless. Is Khmer Rouge not enough?

Follo,Hi. How is it a strange question ? Your opinion, not mine.

I think you need to look up the definition ‘communism’, last time I checked, it stated nothing about war/fighting or the possession of armaments of any kind. AW.

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