The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

bluediamond started the topic in

Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

basesix Saturday, 7 Oct 2023 at 9:21pm

udo wrote:
This it Indo ?
https://youtu.be/CM_3jVUXqcM?si=uMydLIN6aXHlqmRr

hahahaha, what an eshay sperm donor.. is he a thing?

Reform Saturday, 7 Oct 2023 at 10:20pm

Ryuchi Sakimoto – Love and Hate at Sweet revenge tour 1994

Love will survive us
Hate, Hate will divide us
But, But something inside us
Unites us with love

Drugs on sale at the schoolyard gate
People die because bigots hate,
Violence out there on the street
Isolation's all we meet

"You deserve just what you get"
Says the moral majorette
As the movie star kills
The kids get their thrills

Love, Tears you apart
Deep in the heart

Hate, Those left to pray too
Love, The hole in the sky
Hate, With angels can fly

In this day and age
Of constant outrage
Should it be allowed
Love lost in the crowd
It’s a disgrace
It’s in your face
They become desensitised
Everything gets televised

Now I don’t believe in censorship
But surely certain things they hit
Like calling out for genocide
Saying queers should be crucified

Minorities fight between themselves
Perpetuating living hells
Like playing to the hands of hate
Stop it now before it’s too late

Love, Love will survive us
Hate, Hate will divide us
But something inside us
Unites us with love
Love., Love will survive us
Hate, Hate will divide us
But something inside us
Unites us with love

Love, Love will survive us
Hate, Hate will divide us
Love, But something inside us
Hate, Unites us with love

Love, Tears you apart
Hate, Deep in the heart
Hate, Those left to pray too
Love, The hole in the sky
Hate, With angels can fly

seeds Saturday, 7 Oct 2023 at 10:27pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
Indo wrote “ If you went to any community where there is a large indigenous population most couldnt give a fuck about Australia day, “ …..I’m curious as to when was the last time you visited a large indigenous population and asked them what they thought about Australia day ? Indo I know you believe things that just pop into your head to be true but the reality is a different story .

It's been talked about by people like Jacinta but its also called common sense, you live in a community with all kinds of real life issue's, be in crime, domestic violence, drugs, drinking, suicide, mob violence, other things like crazy prices for food or fuel or just money issues, bills, food etc and making sure that last income payment gets you through to the next.

But hey its not those things that your worried about its what date other Aussie's celebrate Australia day, FFS its not the real world anyone that is worried about some date is as privileged as you an me.

BTW. I swear Avi did do a short episode doing exactly that but I can't seem to find it i remember a group of Aboriginal women looking at him with blank stares then laughing going WTF are you on about then, talking about the problems of meth in their community.

seeds wrote:
That’s a nothing response. Jacinta said it! Haha no doubt Jacinta has her story but it doesn’t reflect everyone’s experience. Stop painting everyone with the same brush just as she should.

See above and get fucked.

BSCM thinks the constitution is neutral non race based but section 51 allows race laws that allowed The Northern Territory Intervention. A completely racist intervention that applied to only FNP that was based on very small amount of cases but was said to be rife.
Just like Jacinta and Spud talking shit in Alice a while back but couldn’t give any details or report anything to police. Stop painting everyone with the same brush. The rest of Australia wouldn’t cop it but then again they never would have to, would they?
Give me a break with this shit will divide us by race in the constitution.

truebluebasher Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 2:15am

Most voters queue to Vote so naturally adopt [X] for fast paced National Referendums
100% Adaptability for majority of disabled aging Oz Voters

NZ [X] Model + Most [X] nations have a neutral leaning toward (Change) Referendum outcome.
France opts for [ OUI ] or [ NON ] Clear to see the = Dexterity for either choice.

That leaves Aussies stuck with a biased [YES] or [NO] for #1World weakest grip aging pop!
True! Oz pop grip peaks stronger but drops off to weaken faster below World average...
Oz already boasts high 50% Illiteracy + Kids > Adult grip muscles are weakening fast with Tech age.
Teachers are aghast at www Gromz that can't muscle up to pass their pen licence...(But it hurts! Miss!)

This started to mount as an unfair advantage with [YES] vs [NO]...How so tbb? Watch the Bias mount.
Most Active Referendum Nations Yes = 2 letter combo (vs) No = 3/4 letter Combos + France [Neutral]
Only English Nations disadvantage 3 letter YES (vs) World disadvantages NO
Recap : UK / US don't do mad rush Fed reffos + Canada has dual Language + NZ [X]
That leaves Oz [YES] Vote as most arduous for most aging disabled weakest grip Electorate...(Wait!)

If that were the worst of it...so be it...that's our lot!
Watch this...
AEC instruct [ "YES" ] or [ "NO" ]
Whereas each Campaign Sign something different again ...VOTE [ NO. ] + VOTE [ YES! ]
Note how neither comply with simple 2x repeated [AEC] Directive...( By design it ramps confusion!)

Also note [ Decisive NO. ] vs [ Q : YES! ] See [YES!] shoot itself with just this subtle off script dynamic!
Yes! [Alter] Whole thing becomes a puzzling Bastard act before bashing innocents with wot was it!
Ask! What if AEC are strict on "Directive" > Then both camps fraudulently failed 100% of electorate!

Oz same [YES] sex Marriage was a DIY > Take all the time in the World ...non rushed Plebiscite

Pause...there's a lot unfolding here & you'll need to take stock! Mind you it's all rather straight forward!

Again this is major as only Oz defies [X] Fair Vote > Now see how either or more bias creeps in.
50% are illiterate / arthritic & Vote in their own paranoid Darkened Shadow Box painfully clasping pen'.
Now add the Queue rush...hurry up pops...likely to add in a crippled good hand...then what?

Disabled tbb ran some very simple real life Voting tests on AEC (Easiest directive) [YES] vs [NO]
[NO] can be written clearly & easily L/R handed in the dark in just 2 even strokes with just 1 pen lift.
But once you write [N...] The voter can't change their mind in a rush...[ N can't change to Y ] Locked in!
Bummer...even if ya had second thoughts...gotta live with that very moment to shape yer life.

Why is that important...Media / Albo claim 30% are undecided as they hit the Queue!
(30% hanger) That once started can't be changed with Queue bullying the Hodad...Hurry up pops!

Repeat only Oz Votes with Yes 3 (vs) 2 No Bias (No other Reffo Mob bias against [Yes] like Oz does)
Ok! All the other ticks aside as any can do adopt similar outside Oz peculiar Wording impost!

YES requires 8 strokes + illegible when written in dark or with 2nd hand + 7x raising of aching Hand.
Each stroke needs to be precise..in itself a test for a senior...now watch this...If tbb is rushed or tired.
Ready for this amazing Massive opt out...that all instinctively know when under pressure! Who Knew!
In fact...feel free to take it in & adopt it as a free tool when 30% reach this crisis point!
eg : Hwy Signs ( 110 ) > ( N 0)...repeating that all know all these options & when to use them...(Real!)

[ \ = N 0 ] [ \/ = /\/ O ] [ Y = /)/ O] > 3 stage legible (Mid) Yes Vote Changes to NO without an eraser.
Even YE = [ /)/ (-) ] = 2/3rds thru with 4 Vote Change Options...( Reckon AEC know all of them! Huh! )

Recap 50% Illiterate aging weakest painful Vote tasking in the World...
tbb declares Seniors will default to World's most biased reduced ease of pain Voting technique. (Done!)
Old crew never like change as it is...they don't need #1 Prompts to lock out further biased change!
Voting YES is 4x arduous + 7x Physical arm lifting...but affords 4x advanced outs to Vote [NO]
Ya don't have to be old to experience this level of rushed anxious locked shaking hand.

tbb can share he & many Aussies need only stall with Queue moving with one other waiting...
Then ya start to shake, instantly go weak & drop yer Wallet & Cards...happens to all...ask any!
Hurry! Nervously land 8 precise artizan master strokes within a small box standing in own shadow...
tbb feels the pain & frustration from 1,000 miles away...it hurts tbb a lot to simple type / write / draw.
Ever taking short cuts ...it's very real & happening more to all each day at rapid onset pace.
All prefer the [x] to instantly bring 100% Crisis relief & secure larger enrollment base + cut time / cost!

AEC exempt Mental disability but never Physical...you are mandated to push on...in a booth crisis!
tbb is to ask assist from nearest AEC penman to dab [ 8 precise Master Strokes ] for just 1 [YES] Vote!

At this point it's only fair to acknowledge us true neutral non voters reviewing anomaly from outside.
tbb don't know others & never comes across similar engagement... strictly supposed to keep clear!
Just saying tbb may not Vote but that should never preclude 100% free neutral review when needed.
tbb would argue it's healthy & at times helpful to rewrite yer Riot Act!

Mostly coz all AEC reviews are mandated by own charter to be biased...all can surely see Big Fat Liars.
Anarchists are 100% neutral...crew recall tbb was first to out [YES] Colour bias...this extends on that!
Most likely many more anomalies tbb could dig out...once ya start it just exposes more bias!
Sure! This may appear as next level bipolar review but tbb argues it's just standard physical bias.
Meaning all simply overlook it...that's just being normal, less so political.

Same as Record Aboriginal enrollment of record decreasing Aboriginal Population % Voter base.
see! Major Biased anomaly that 100% biased AEC can & will never share, too busy hiding the fact!
Green Ant Bully is Happy to share exclusive Oz Referendum anomaly...can vouch > 100% painfully real!

frog Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 8:35am

ABC's Laura Tingle's statement posted previously blaming "some sections" of the media for not allowing a balanced discussion reminds me of the proverb:

"there are none so blind as those who will not see"

I would guess that over a year of ABC bias and willingness to aggressively oppose or "fact check" any views not aligned to enthusiastic support for The Voice has:

1. Solidified the hard Yes - preaching to the converted

2. Solidied the hard No - Yep, they are sweeping stuff under the carpet as predicted, but they won't convert me!

3. Converted more of the undecided into the No camp than to the Yes camp - through increasing their skepticism and making them more receptive to alternative views.

I can't remember the topic (not The Voice) but I distinctly remember an ABC journalist in a panel session over a year ago who piped up something like "finally, we are getting traction on this, after we have been banging on about it over and over for years". She gave the game away. She revealed a strong culture of activism at work more than balanced journalism.

Many people don't respond well to getting "banged on at "- preached at.

Hillsong style pentacostal churches draw some in who like that style of messaging but send most people running for the hills.

Pushy salespeople do the same.

The ABC is not quite a Jimmy Swaggart / Hillsong evangelical organisation. It is much more subtle than that. But a steady stream of narrative in certain predictable directions is always there.

Increasing the No vote is an ABC own goal they will never admit to or perhaps even realise they kicked.

indo-dreaming Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 9:09am

Less than a week to go and it's not looking good for the Yes camp, they really are going to need to pull off a miracle from here

Today in ABC news

"Voice polls show support lower than that of failed republic referendum
The ABC's poll of the polls now puts Yes at an average of 41.2 per cent, well behind No at 58.8 per cent.

For Yes, that's well below the level of support that was recorded in the republic referendum in 1999, which failed with just over 45 per cent of the national vote."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-08/voice-polls-show-support-lower-th...

BTW. Its should also be noted hopefully we get no big surprises in polls as pollsters have changed and refined polling in the last few years to ensure that polling reflects the wider community in regards to all types of aspect's like education, income, age, geography etc.

Also it should be noted if out slightly it should favour the No camp as some voting No might not feel comfortable saying they are voting no and might say undecided, while there is no stigma attached to voting Yes which means the yes stats should be fairly close to the money.

But that said nothing is a certainty until its a done deal...so hold off on cracking the champagne just yet comrades. :P

goofyfoot Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 9:06am

“ Less than a week to go and it's not looking good for the Yes camp, going to need to pull off a miracle from here”

You’d love waking up to this news wouldn’t you Indo, probably even firmed up over it.
Another big day on the forums coming up convincing all and sundry what you say is right and can’t be wrong.

Jelly Flater Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 9:23am

Yep. Gumboot soapbox ;)

https://m.

indo-dreaming Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 9:27am

goofyfoot wrote:
“ Less than a week to go and it's not looking good for the Yes camp, going to need to pull off a miracle from here”

You’d love waking up to this news wouldn’t you Indo, probably even firmed up over it.
Another big day on the forums coming up convincing all and sundry what you say is right and can’t be wrong.

Yep big week ahead Goofy the finish line is in sight and we have done it without the thread being closed, so well done everyone.

BTW. I did read an article saying we might not have a final result for two weeks due to postal votes, that would suck, hopefully for all we get a quick result

frog Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 9:53am

A cynical, but apt, analogy....

Expensive consultant examines struggling company XYZ Pty Ltd over many months and prepares a report for the Board.

Report details a whole host of serious, longstanding problems in all areas of the company. It presents a single recommendation for the Board:

"The solution is more grassroots input from your employees. I recommend a large employee consultative committee be formed to provide advice to the Board." I also recommend that I be appointed on a lucrative, long-term contract to oversee the implementation of the committee.

The Chair of the Board endorses the report wholeheartedly and announces it to the employees, the market and media as a remarkable, game-changing initiative.

Shareholder reaction? Employee reaction? Media reaction?

All agree it might help in some ways but would the reaction be:

Enthusiasm? Optimism? Some concerns and questions? Skepticism? Is that the best they could come up with?

Prediction for degree of improvement in say 5 years? Share price direction (vote equivalent)prediction for the following Monday?

Would you invest say 50% of your Super in XYZ Pty Ltd ? i.e. How serious is your faith in the recommended action being very successful?

Reform Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 9:58am

https://www.360cities.net/image/parliament-house-canberra-australia

The wonderful mosaic as replicated of 'Possum and Wallaby Dreaming' by Aboriginal artist Michael Nelson Tjakamarra. At the new Parliament House.

Michael Adam Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 10:23am

Note the rise of India and Singapore and the decline of Canada and NZ.

Reform Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 10:30am

https://thegroundtruthdotblog.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/parliament-dr-...

Sited right at the forecourt of Parliament House is Kumantye Jagamara artwork 'Possum and Wallaby'.
The Aboriginal entity and presence on this land is symbolised right here and cemented in. It is a wonderful story of Aboriginal Lore depicted in artwork.
They have stated their mark with this beautiful intelligent artwork positioned at the jaws of Parliament house.
Just now need the voice to Parliament.
And that privilege is being determined by you and me whether they get it or not.
Best they get a voice hey!!
Everyone has a voice but they haven't got theirs yet.
Why not? There isn't any good reason to deny these people a voice to Parliament.
Did some research yesterday and more today, apparently the No debate/ debarkle is erroneous and without justification. Will know more at a later time Cheers

gsco Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 10:56am

you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

Jelly Flater Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 10:58am

https://m.

udo Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 10:59am

Reform wrote:
https://www.360cities.net/image/parliament-house-canberra-australia

The wonderful mosaic as replicated of 'Possum and Wallaby Dreaming' by Aboriginal artist Michael Nelson Tjakamarra. At the new Parliament House.

Thanks to Geoffrey Bardon for that Teaching Fantastic Painting Technique...

Michael Adam Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 11:02am

“National unity invariably reflects an agreed national mythology and Australia no longer has that, torn as it is between those who take pride in a founding mythology of settlers and Anzacs and those who wail at a mythology of conquest and massacre and the loss of Eden. These mythologies are opposed fundamentally, and it is very difficult to see a path to reconciliation while they compete.

A ‘Yes’ vote will not resolve the conflict and is unlikely to solve Aboriginal disadvantage, given its focus on the funding a future with reparations for the past, and missing the need for personal responsibility and endeavour in the present.

An optimist might hope that a ‘No’ vote will allow Australians to agree on a basic equality among us, from the first arrivals to the last, and to determinedly commit to better use of the vast resources generously given annually by Australians to help disadvantaged Aboriginals and other people begin to rebuild their lives.“

Reform Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 11:17am

udo wrote:
Reform wrote:
https://www.360cities.net/image/parliament-house-canberra-australia

The wonderful mosaic as replicated of 'Possum and Wallaby Dreaming' by Aboriginal artist Michael Nelson Tjakamarra. At the new Parliament House.

Thanks to Geoffrey Bardon for that Teaching Fantastic Painting Technique...

I didn't know that Udo, Interesting pivotal moment in the wonderful timeline of creativity of the Aboriginal people, Interesting fact, Kudo's to a great human, Geoffrey Bardon, I wonder what he would be voting? cheers

Reform Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 11:34am

udo wrote:
Reform wrote:
https://www.360cities.net/image/parliament-house-canberra-australia

The wonderful mosaic as replicated of 'Possum and Wallaby Dreaming' by Aboriginal artist Michael Nelson Tjakamarra. At the new Parliament House.

Thanks to Geoffrey Bardon for that Teaching Fantastic Painting Technique...

Sadly passed away in 2003

harrycoopr Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 11:39am

gsco wrote:
you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

"rationally"

udo Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 11:49am

Reform wrote:
udo wrote:
Reform wrote:
https://www.360cities.net/image/parliament-house-canberra-australia

The wonderful mosaic as replicated of 'Possum and Wallaby Dreaming' by Aboriginal artist Michael Nelson Tjakamarra. At the new Parliament House.

Thanks to Geoffrey Bardon for that Teaching Fantastic Painting Technique...

I didn't know that Udo, Interesting pivotal moment in the wonderful timeline of creativity of the Aboriginal people, Interesting fact, Kudo's to a great human, Geoffrey Bardon, I wonder what he would be voting? cheers

?si=T3h25i_pzP7H98-w

harrycoopr Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 11:51am

udo wrote:
Reform wrote:
https://www.360cities.net/image/parliament-house-canberra-australia

The wonderful mosaic as replicated of 'Possum and Wallaby Dreaming' by Aboriginal artist Michael Nelson Tjakamarra. At the new Parliament House.

Thanks to Geoffrey Bardon for that Teaching Fantastic Painting Technique...

Well Bardon supplied the paints... the Warlpiri painted the school doors to begin with using symbols from previous sand painting which would be erased after ceremony

harrycoopr Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 12:00pm

gsco wrote:
you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

"militant"

harrycoopr Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 12:02pm

gsco wrote:
you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

"cancel culture " ...Isn't No cancel culture??

waveman Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 12:43pm

southernraw wrote:
Completely disageee Zen. your opinion so fair enough..I wish there were more Harrys holding people accountable.
Good on ya Harrycoopr. Telling the truth seems to make alot of people uncomfortable doesn't it.
And waveman, what the actual fuck are you going on about reparations being more money spent?
Who said that and where??
Read the original post to this thread.
The whole point is to look beyond the simplified money fixit and consider the rightful reparations for past injustices.
What do you think would b rightful?

In your own words “rent is well overdue!!”. If you’re not referring to money, then what are you referring to?

truebluebasher Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 1:35pm

Optional Referendum Voting Nations
[X] vs [X] are equally fair by enabling inclusive trusted Voting outcomes
No one could be fucked cheating as none give a fuck about voting...why bother!

Australia's Compulsory Referendum
[ Yes ] vs [ No ] Oppose equality & promote divisive endless corruptible Voting outcomes

Only Australia "MANDATES" 2 opposing & biased options [ Yes ] vs [ No ] to same Reffo Question?

Govt mandates that you barrack for War or More War ... In our World [X] is banned! All know that!

Take a look outside yer window or turn on yer Telly...
[ Back ] vs [ White ] There is no [X] Factor...it is taboo!

Never had to be like this...simply by adopting equal fair voting practice promotes Peace Rallies.

UN Charter : "Must be inclusive of Woke Undecided Aussie Voters with more fair & equal options!"

We @ Necon Straya have listened & devised a more fairly scrupulous obstinate How 2 Vote Card
AEC is increasing enrollment % of wealthy sickly bed ridden white Aussies to boss every electorate.
AEC will further fight lowering the Voting Age to advance majority % of healthy Aboriginal kids.

AEC : New more racially tolerant Voting Card ~ [ Fuck That ] and / or [ Fuck You 2 ]

UN : "Much clearer & heaps fairer...Gold Stars all' round!"

Aussie Punta : 'Strewth! I'm buggered...are we done yet!...Now go fetch me Sunday Roast!
Hey! Where's me complimentary AEC Blind Audition Voice form Guide...ya pack of bastards!'

Supafreak Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 1:45pm

sameaswas Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 1:46pm

harrycoopr wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
harrycoopr wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??

anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.

on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".

why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??

my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.

any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.

oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.

Sameasitteverwas...that's how u want it huh? Same as it ever was. Well sorry bud, one way or another, voice or no voice, the blackfellas are going to keep up their struggles and demands... we can do it the easy polite way thru reconciliation or we can do it the hard way where blackfellas close down yr local parks or whatever, stop polluting mines, and ripping off and smashing whitey in anger, filling up the prisons.
As for Briggs, he ain't my role model... just the latest in a long line of angry black men tired of how his people are treated... go back to No Fixed Address for some funky beats... or Jimmy Little if you want to be soothed. It ain't same as it ever was bud... the times they are a'changin... get on the train or stay stuck in the rain (my hiphop attempt)... now rethink yr stupidity before Briggsy flattens ya...

harry the fnp have allready shutdown parks and camping grounds, wilsons prom native title claim 8+mnths shutdown of campground while in negotiation with govt and another clan is argueing with the first clan who put claim in as to who "owns" it.

a native title claim can last 6yrs thats not includeing how long the competeing claims take to settle. so we are all denied access till these matters are sorted.

i don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train.

"I don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train."

Of course u don't ... that's why yr voting no. God forbid blackfellas don't want people on their land till everything's sorted out. It's not like we let them trespass whenever they wanted. I've travelled far and wide and have never had an issue with camping etc when I've approached the locals and asked permission... last time was Wreck Bay... they had a sign up saying road to Aussie pipe was closed so I asked some locals and they said no worries, go check it out. Years ago an anthropologist wrote a paper about the Western Desert groups called "Always ask"... it's just common courtesy when travelling on someone's property. And a good thing to think about is the hypothetical if the Chinese invaded us... guess you'd be pissed too if they started trampling all over yr garden and sleeping in yr house... and taking yr kids off ya.

Harry totally disagree with your view this land is shared by all of us and when native title came in it was specifically put in legislation that crown land if used by public before native title cannot be regulated or blocked from public acess by fnp.

However if sacred site declared they can.
I think banning acess to beach is the most lowlife act one can do especially based on race or colour of skin and if surf was pumping i would probly do gaol time, vigillanties i would fight if they tried to forcefully stop me and council or govt agents i would ignore.

southernraw Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 2:15pm

Michael Adam wrote:
Note the rise of India and Singapore and the decline of Canada and NZ.

Yes, well Ardern and Trudeau would have that effect wouldn't they.

southernraw Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 2:17pm

waveman wrote:
southernraw wrote:
Completely disageee Zen. your opinion so fair enough..I wish there were more Harrys holding people accountable.
Good on ya Harrycoopr. Telling the truth seems to make alot of people uncomfortable doesn't it.
And waveman, what the actual fuck are you going on about reparations being more money spent?
Who said that and where??
Read the original post to this thread.
The whole point is to look beyond the simplified money fixit and consider the rightful reparations for past injustices.
What do you think would b rightful?

In your own words “rent is well overdue!!”. If you’re not referring to money, then what are you referring to?

I mean, obviously, metaphorically speaking.
Have you followed any of this thread?
How could you be so far off the mark to assume that, when surely you've read the pages leading up to this to get an understanding of my viewpoint?

Reform Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 2:25pm

Here's some booklet info from Aust. Govt. Its probably been posted already but here it is anyway.
For the full booklet, see link below.
In accordance with United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, Indigenous peoples around the world have unique rights as the Traditional Owners and original Custodians of lands that have been colonised.
Below, I have copied and pasted a select part of the pamphlet.

See link here https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islande...

Under International law it is our Governments DUTY to listen to and to agree to the wishes of a voice to Parliament as it has been put forth by the Aboriginal representatives

These individual and collective Indigenous rights are set out in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP).
UNDRIP establishes a universal framework of minimum standards for the survival, dignity and well-being of Indigenous peoples around the world.

It includes the rights of Indigenous peoples to:
• Self determination: the right to shape their own lives, including their economic, social, cultural, and political futures (Article 3). This is a central right of UNDRIP, and all other Indigenous rights in the Declaration help to achieve self-determination.
• Autonomy and self-government: the right to decide how to develop politically, economically, and socially (Article 4).
• Indigenous decision-making institutions: the right to maintain and strengthen their distinct political, legal, economic, social, and cultural institutions (Article 5).
• Culture: the right to practise and revitalise their cultural traditions and customs, including to maintain, protect and develop the past, present and future manifestations of their cultures (Article 11).
• Language: the right to establish and control their educational systems and institutions providing education in their own languages, in a manner appropriate to their cultural methods of teaching and learning (Article 14).
• Participation and representation: the right to participate in decision-making in matters that affect their rights, and through representatives they choose (Article 18).
• Consultation with government: the right to be consulted through their own representative institutions in order to obtain their free, prior and informed consent before adopting and implementing legislative or administrative measures that may affect them (Article 19).
• Determining future priorities: the right to be actively involved in developing and determining health, housing and other economic and social programs affecting them (Article 23).
• Land: the right to legal recognition and protection of the lands, territories, waters, coastal seas, and resources that they have traditionally owned or occupied (Article 26). Note there is no mention of the words claim or occupy here.
Also in the booklet there are examples of the countries that have adopted the UNDRIP legislation and what they are doing with this legislation in place. Like Aotearoa/New Zealand, Bolivia, Norway.

Noel Pearson and constitutional Lawyers from all sides of the debate have okayed the Voice to Parliament but who the Fk wants to listen to and be guided by the current leader of the opposition or One Nation pollies, or National Party, They aren't the representatives whom we want to govern our lives and the natural country and its recourses, We have extinctions of Fauna and Flora at our fingertips. Old growth forests with the animals and all the ecology that relies on it are being decimated on an hourly timeline, minute by minute we are loosing our natural world. We have the worst record for reducing carbon in all of the developed world and the LNP aren't even good money manages, They're just! Well they're not even just! But they are responsible for all of this destruction as their policies are still in place! The indigenous have more class and have greater dignity by a whole country mile.
I kindly request you guys and girls give the aboriginals a voice for they will make things good because they are good and they know how and what to do, make no mistake.
Do you want to tell your kids when they grow up that you denied the Aboriginal people a voice when you had a chance to or do you want to have a clear conscience and say YES I voted in favour for them. Because it made a difference! Cheers

Supafreak Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 2:45pm

@burleigh , have you met vicki clay ? She’s in the comments. https://x.com/shiannonc/status/1710553328348975414?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe7hK...

indo-dreaming Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 3:06pm

gsco wrote:
you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

Thanks gsco just trying to provide some balance, echo chamber's are boring, and i think diversity of views is important.

indo-dreaming Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 3:07pm

Reform wrote:
Here's some booklet info from Aust. Govt. Its probably been posted already but here it is anyway.
For the full booklet, see link below.
In accordance with United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, Indigenous peoples around the world have unique rights as the Traditional Owners and original Custodians of lands that have been colonised.
Below, I have copied and pasted a select part of the pamphlet.

See link here https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islande...

Under International law it is our Governments DUTY to listen to and to agree to the wishes of a voice to Parliament as it has been put forth by the Aboriginal representatives

These individual and collective Indigenous rights are set out in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP).
UNDRIP establishes a universal framework of minimum standards for the survival, dignity and well-being of Indigenous peoples around the world.

It includes the rights of Indigenous peoples to:
• Self determination: the right to shape their own lives, including their economic, social, cultural, and political futures (Article 3). This is a central right of UNDRIP, and all other Indigenous rights in the Declaration help to achieve self-determination.
• Autonomy and self-government: the right to decide how to develop politically, economically, and socially (Article 4).
• Indigenous decision-making institutions: the right to maintain and strengthen their distinct political, legal, economic, social, and cultural institutions (Article 5).
• Culture: the right to practise and revitalise their cultural traditions and customs, including to maintain, protect and develop the past, present and future manifestations of their cultures (Article 11).
• Language: the right to establish and control their educational systems and institutions providing education in their own languages, in a manner appropriate to their cultural methods of teaching and learning (Article 14).
• Participation and representation: the right to participate in decision-making in matters that affect their rights, and through representatives they choose (Article 18).
• Consultation with government: the right to be consulted through their own representative institutions in order to obtain their free, prior and informed consent before adopting and implementing legislative or administrative measures that may affect them (Article 19).
• Determining future priorities: the right to be actively involved in developing and determining health, housing and other economic and social programs affecting them (Article 23).
• Land: the right to legal recognition and protection of the lands, territories, waters, coastal seas, and resources that they have traditionally owned or occupied (Article 26). Note there is no mention of the words claim or occupy here.
Also in the booklet there are examples of the countries that have adopted the UNDRIP legislation and what they are doing with this legislation in place. Like Aotearoa/New Zealand, Bolivia, Norway.

Noel Pearson and constitutional Lawyers from all sides of the debate have okayed the Voice to Parliament but who the Fk wants to listen to and be guided by the current leader of the opposition or One Nation pollies, or National Party, They aren't the representatives whom we want to govern our lives and the natural country and its recourses, We have extinctions of Fauna and Flora at our fingertips. Old growth forests with the animals and all the ecology that relies on it are being decimated on an hourly timeline, minute by minute we are loosing our natural world. We have the worst record for reducing carbon in all of the developed world and the LNP aren't even good money manages, They're just! Well they're not even just! But they are responsible for all of this destruction as their policies are still in place! The indigenous have more class and have greater dignity by a whole country mile.
I kindly request you guys and girls give the aboriginals a voice for they will make things good because they are good and they know how and what to do, make no mistake.
Do you want to tell your kids when they grow up that you denied the Aboriginal people a voice when you had a chance to or do you want to have a clear conscience and say YES I voted in favour for them. Because it made a difference! Cheers

We all know the UN is a joke, but we still do fulfil many of those things where realistic to do so, thats why we have a minister of indigenous affairs, the NIAA, The Coalition of peaks, Indigenous land council's and a long list of bodies and groups that represent all kinds of indigenous view's and feed into all level's of governance from council to state to federal.

sameaswas Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 3:34pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
Reform wrote:
Here's some booklet info from Aust. Govt. Its probably been posted already but here it is anyway.
For the full booklet, see link below.
In accordance with United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, Indigenous peoples around the world have unique rights as the Traditional Owners and original Custodians of lands that have been colonised.
Below, I have copied and pasted a select part of the pamphlet.

See link here https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islande...

Under International law it is our Governments DUTY to listen to and to agree to the wishes of a voice to Parliament as it has been put forth by the Aboriginal representatives

These individual and collective Indigenous rights are set out in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP).
UNDRIP establishes a universal framework of minimum standards for the survival, dignity and well-being of Indigenous peoples around the world.

It includes the rights of Indigenous peoples to:
• Self determination: the right to shape their own lives, including their economic, social, cultural, and political futures (Article 3). This is a central right of UNDRIP, and all other Indigenous rights in the Declaration help to achieve self-determination.
• Autonomy and self-government: the right to decide how to develop politically, economically, and socially (Article 4).
• Indigenous decision-making institutions: the right to maintain and strengthen their distinct political, legal, economic, social, and cultural institutions (Article 5).
• Culture: the right to practise and revitalise their cultural traditions and customs, including to maintain, protect and develop the past, present and future manifestations of their cultures (Article 11).
• Language: the right to establish and control their educational systems and institutions providing education in their own languages, in a manner appropriate to their cultural methods of teaching and learning (Article 14).
• Participation and representation: the right to participate in decision-making in matters that affect their rights, and through representatives they choose (Article 18).
• Consultation with government: the right to be consulted through their own representative institutions in order to obtain their free, prior and informed consent before adopting and implementing legislative or administrative measures that may affect them (Article 19).
• Determining future priorities: the right to be actively involved in developing and determining health, housing and other economic and social programs affecting them (Article 23).
• Land: the right to legal recognition and protection of the lands, territories, waters, coastal seas, and resources that they have traditionally owned or occupied (Article 26). Note there is no mention of the words claim or occupy here.
Also in the booklet there are examples of the countries that have adopted the UNDRIP legislation and what they are doing with this legislation in place. Like Aotearoa/New Zealand, Bolivia, Norway.

Noel Pearson and constitutional Lawyers from all sides of the debate have okayed the Voice to Parliament but who the Fk wants to listen to and be guided by the current leader of the opposition or One Nation pollies, or National Party, They aren't the representatives whom we want to govern our lives and the natural country and its recourses, We have extinctions of Fauna and Flora at our fingertips. Old growth forests with the animals and all the ecology that relies on it are being decimated on an hourly timeline, minute by minute we are loosing our natural world. We have the worst record for reducing carbon in all of the developed world and the LNP aren't even good money manages, They're just! Well they're not even just! But they are responsible for all of this destruction as their policies are still in place! The indigenous have more class and have greater dignity by a whole country mile.
I kindly request you guys and girls give the aboriginals a voice for they will make things good because they are good and they know how and what to do, make no mistake.
Do you want to tell your kids when they grow up that you denied the Aboriginal people a voice when you had a chance to or do you want to have a clear conscience and say YES I voted in favour for them. Because it made a difference! Cheers

We all know the UN is a joke, but we still do fulfil many of those things where realistic to do so, thats why we have a minister of indigenous affairs, the NIAA, The Coalition of peaks, Indigenous land council's and a long list of bodies and groups that represent all kinds of indigenous view's and feed into all level's of governance from council to state to federal.

good onya indo, again i commend your individuality and independant thinking.

apologies for any flack comeing your way for my comment.

have you googled ABbriggs music videos yet aka king billy!? , no wonder fnp youth are running amok with this fat narcisist verbal dysentry hip hop...check him out, the darling of yes23.

Jelly Flater Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 3:39pm

Haha
- don’t fret, you guys may still be able to get ya free beers ;)

https://m.

&pp=ygUPRHVtYiBhbmQgZHVtYmVy

GuySmiley Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 3:58pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
gsco wrote:
you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

Thanks gsco just trying to provide some balance, echo chamber's are boring, and i think diversity of views is important.

I’m left wondering whether @info is now providing an argument for the Voice or further proof of how delusional he is about his own personality trait of being a complete arsehole at every possible opportunity. Bullshit away.

Jelly Flater Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 4:07pm

… ‘independant’ thinking ‘comeing’ your way ;);)

https://m.

udo Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 4:09pm

Older and immunocompromised Australians will be given free access to a new, more effective shingles vaccine from next month.
Nearly five million people will be eligible for the vaccination from November 1, including those aged 65 years and over,
First Nations people aged 50 years and over and immunocompromised people aged 18 years and over who are at high risk of catching the shingles virus.

Jelly Flater Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 4:18pm

https://m.

harrycoopr Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 4:18pm

sameaswas wrote:
harrycoopr wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
harrycoopr wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??

anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.

on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".

why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??

my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.

any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.

oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.

Sameasitteverwas...that's how u want it huh? Same as it ever was. Well sorry bud, one way or another, voice or no voice, the blackfellas are going to keep up their struggles and demands... we can do it the easy polite way thru reconciliation or we can do it the hard way where blackfellas close down yr local parks or whatever, stop polluting mines, and ripping off and smashing whitey in anger, filling up the prisons.
As for Briggs, he ain't my role model... just the latest in a long line of angry black men tired of how his people are treated... go back to No Fixed Address for some funky beats... or Jimmy Little if you want to be soothed. It ain't same as it ever was bud... the times they are a'changin... get on the train or stay stuck in the rain (my hiphop attempt)... now rethink yr stupidity before Briggsy flattens ya...

harry the fnp have allready shutdown parks and camping grounds, wilsons prom native title claim 8+mnths shutdown of campground while in negotiation with govt and another clan is argueing with the first clan who put claim in as to who "owns" it.

a native title claim can last 6yrs thats not includeing how long the competeing claims take to settle. so we are all denied access till these matters are sorted.

i don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train.

"I don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train."

Of course u don't ... that's why yr voting no. God forbid blackfellas don't want people on their land till everything's sorted out. It's not like we let them trespass whenever they wanted. I've travelled far and wide and have never had an issue with camping etc when I've approached the locals and asked permission... last time was Wreck Bay... they had a sign up saying road to Aussie pipe was closed so I asked some locals and they said no worries, go check it out. Years ago an anthropologist wrote a paper about the Western Desert groups called "Always ask"... it's just common courtesy when travelling on someone's property. And a good thing to think about is the hypothetical if the Chinese invaded us... guess you'd be pissed too if they started trampling all over yr garden and sleeping in yr house... and taking yr kids off ya.

Harry totally disagree with your view this land is shared by all of us and when native title came in it was specifically put in legislation that crown land if used by public before native title cannot be regulated or blocked from public acess by fnp.

However if sacred site declared they can.
I think banning acess to beach is the most lowlife act one can do especially based on race or colour of skin and if surf was pumping i would probly do gaol time, vigillanties i would fight if they tried to forcefully stop me and council or govt agents i would ignore.

Of course u would... cos yr an A grade idiot. Ever thought of having a chat with the ppl involved?

harrycoopr Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 4:27pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
gsco wrote:
you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

Thanks gsco just trying to provide some balance, echo chamber's are boring, and i think diversity of views is important.

"rationally" "militant" "cancel culture"
Yep... balanced. Derp.

andy-mac Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 5:04pm

harrycoopr wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
gsco wrote:
you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

Thanks gsco just trying to provide some balance, echo chamber's are boring, and i think diversity of views is important.

"rationally" "militant" "cancel culture"
Yep... balanced. Derp.

Tin hat taken off?

sameaswas Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 5:07pm

udo wrote:
Older and immunocompromised Australians will be given free access to a new, more effective shingles vaccine from next month.
Nearly five million people will be eligible for the vaccination from November 1, including those aged 65 years and over,
First Nations people aged 50 years and over and immunocompromised people aged 18 years and over who are at high risk of catching the shingles virus.

interesting info udo, i remember early on in the covid saga the medical experts said a side effect of the vacine was it may cause shingles and last year they had adverts out saying 1 in 5 (not sure exact nos) of ppl over age of 50(?) have a chance of developing shingles and no mention of the vacine causing side effect.

harrycoopr Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 5:09pm

sameaswas wrote:
udo wrote:
Older and immunocompromised Australians will be given free access to a new, more effective shingles vaccine from next month.
Nearly five million people will be eligible for the vaccination from November 1, including those aged 65 years and over,
First Nations people aged 50 years and over and immunocompromised people aged 18 years and over who are at high risk of catching the shingles virus.

interesting info udo, i remember early on in the covid saga the medical experts said a side effect of the vacine was it may cause shingles and last year they had adverts out saying 1 in 5 (not sure exact nos) of ppl over age of 50(?) have a chance of developing shingles and no mention of the vacine causing side effect.

Your in the wrong thread tinhats

sameaswas Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 5:32pm

harrycoopr wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
harrycoopr wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
harrycoopr wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??

anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.

on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".

why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??

my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.

any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.

oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.

Sameasitteverwas...that's how u want it huh? Same as it ever was. Well sorry bud, one way or another, voice or no voice, the blackfellas are going to keep up their struggles and demands... we can do it the easy polite way thru reconciliation or we can do it the hard way where blackfellas close down yr local parks or whatever, stop polluting mines, and ripping off and smashing whitey in anger, filling up the prisons.
As for Briggs, he ain't my role model... just the latest in a long line of angry black men tired of how his people are treated... go back to No Fixed Address for some funky beats... or Jimmy Little if you want to be soothed. It ain't same as it ever was bud... the times they are a'changin... get on the train or stay stuck in the rain (my hiphop attempt)... now rethink yr stupidity before Briggsy flattens ya...

harry the fnp have allready shutdown parks and camping grounds, wilsons prom native title claim 8+mnths shutdown of campground while in negotiation with govt and another clan is argueing with the first clan who put claim in as to who "owns" it.

a native title claim can last 6yrs thats not includeing how long the competeing claims take to settle. so we are all denied access till these matters are sorted.

i don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train.

"I don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train."

Of course u don't ... that's why yr voting no. God forbid blackfellas don't want people on their land till everything's sorted out. It's not like we let them trespass whenever they wanted. I've travelled far and wide and have never had an issue with camping etc when I've approached the locals and asked permission... last time was Wreck Bay... they had a sign up saying road to Aussie pipe was closed so I asked some locals and they said no worries, go check it out. Years ago an anthropologist wrote a paper about the Western Desert groups called "Always ask"... it's just common courtesy when travelling on someone's property. And a good thing to think about is the hypothetical if the Chinese invaded us... guess you'd be pissed too if they started trampling all over yr garden and sleeping in yr house... and taking yr kids off ya.

Harry totally disagree with your view this land is shared by all of us and when native title came in it was specifically put in legislation that crown land if used by public before native title cannot be regulated or blocked from public acess by fnp.

However if sacred site declared they can.
I think banning acess to beach is the most lowlife act one can do especially based on race or colour of skin and if surf was pumping i would probly do gaol time, vigillanties i would fight if they tried to forcefully stop me and council or govt agents i would ignore.

Of course u would... cos yr an A grade idiot. Ever thought of having a chat with the ppl involved?

yes harry i agree (not the idiot bit) and i did say i would converse with them, eg they approach me to point out signage, i would dispute their authority and mention the native title act not allowing them to stop me from crown land and say take my licence plate and take legal action.
if i had my phone in my bag i would video the discussion .

this native title thingy the yes23 organisers keep saying it has nothing to do with the reffo, "it's all about an advisory body" blahblah.

native title said crown land accesible to all, and yet they are stopping access to crown land srcretly, so why should i believe their voice advisory body only? propaganda lies?

and why have the lawyers and councils and state, federal institutions allowed them to block off access?

would you agree with me that this is unaustralian? (ps i hate that euphemism)

indo-dreaming Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 5:43pm

sameaswas wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
Reform wrote:
Here's some booklet info from Aust. Govt. Its probably been posted already but here it is anyway.
For the full booklet, see link below.
In accordance with United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, Indigenous peoples around the world have unique rights as the Traditional Owners and original Custodians of lands that have been colonised.
Below, I have copied and pasted a select part of the pamphlet.

See link here https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islande...

Under International law it is our Governments DUTY to listen to and to agree to the wishes of a voice to Parliament as it has been put forth by the Aboriginal representatives

These individual and collective Indigenous rights are set out in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP).
UNDRIP establishes a universal framework of minimum standards for the survival, dignity and well-being of Indigenous peoples around the world.

It includes the rights of Indigenous peoples to:
• Self determination: the right to shape their own lives, including their economic, social, cultural, and political futures (Article 3). This is a central right of UNDRIP, and all other Indigenous rights in the Declaration help to achieve self-determination.
• Autonomy and self-government: the right to decide how to develop politically, economically, and socially (Article 4).
• Indigenous decision-making institutions: the right to maintain and strengthen their distinct political, legal, economic, social, and cultural institutions (Article 5).
• Culture: the right to practise and revitalise their cultural traditions and customs, including to maintain, protect and develop the past, present and future manifestations of their cultures (Article 11).
• Language: the right to establish and control their educational systems and institutions providing education in their own languages, in a manner appropriate to their cultural methods of teaching and learning (Article 14).
• Participation and representation: the right to participate in decision-making in matters that affect their rights, and through representatives they choose (Article 18).
• Consultation with government: the right to be consulted through their own representative institutions in order to obtain their free, prior and informed consent before adopting and implementing legislative or administrative measures that may affect them (Article 19).
• Determining future priorities: the right to be actively involved in developing and determining health, housing and other economic and social programs affecting them (Article 23).
• Land: the right to legal recognition and protection of the lands, territories, waters, coastal seas, and resources that they have traditionally owned or occupied (Article 26). Note there is no mention of the words claim or occupy here.
Also in the booklet there are examples of the countries that have adopted the UNDRIP legislation and what they are doing with this legislation in place. Like Aotearoa/New Zealand, Bolivia, Norway.

Noel Pearson and constitutional Lawyers from all sides of the debate have okayed the Voice to Parliament but who the Fk wants to listen to and be guided by the current leader of the opposition or One Nation pollies, or National Party, They aren't the representatives whom we want to govern our lives and the natural country and its recourses, We have extinctions of Fauna and Flora at our fingertips. Old growth forests with the animals and all the ecology that relies on it are being decimated on an hourly timeline, minute by minute we are loosing our natural world. We have the worst record for reducing carbon in all of the developed world and the LNP aren't even good money manages, They're just! Well they're not even just! But they are responsible for all of this destruction as their policies are still in place! The indigenous have more class and have greater dignity by a whole country mile.
I kindly request you guys and girls give the aboriginals a voice for they will make things good because they are good and they know how and what to do, make no mistake.
Do you want to tell your kids when they grow up that you denied the Aboriginal people a voice when you had a chance to or do you want to have a clear conscience and say YES I voted in favour for them. Because it made a difference! Cheers

We all know the UN is a joke, but we still do fulfil many of those things where realistic to do so, thats why we have a minister of indigenous affairs, the NIAA, The Coalition of peaks, Indigenous land council's and a long list of bodies and groups that represent all kinds of indigenous view's and feed into all level's of governance from council to state to federal.

good onya indo, again i commend your individuality and independant thinking.

apologies for any flack comeing your way for my comment.

have you googled ABbriggs music videos yet aka king billy!? , no wonder fnp youth are running amok with this fat narcisist verbal dysentry hip hop...check him out, the darling of yes23.

I havent but im pretty sure some lyrics of his were posted a few weeks ago, and one line was pretty full on, some twisted real violent shit

The whole rap/hip hop thing in relation to Indigenous kids is interesting, maybe there is positives from it in the creative aspect, but i could also see there being negatives, a guy like that is really just brainwashing kids to be hateful and resentful towards non indigenous people,/society and embrace being a victim.

When all that Alice springs crap happened a few months back Avi went out and talked to people in the streets including the kids on the street at night, first thing i noticed was how they have completely adopted the USA style wanna be gangster culture in every way from clothes to how they speak and of course the silly hand movements etc

Its probably a thing among many young kids these days though, i remember even in the 80s with the first wave of rap/hip hop, thinking we were gangsters and we would carry around butterfly knifes and getting into low level crime like graffiti and shop lifting (spray cans) all inspired by the USA scene.

sameaswas Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 5:36pm

harrycoopr wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
udo wrote:
Older and immunocompromised Australians will be given free access to a new, more effective shingles vaccine from next month.
Nearly five million people will be eligible for the vaccination from November 1, including those aged 65 years and over,
First Nations people aged 50 years and over and immunocompromised people aged 18 years and over who are at high risk of catching the shingles virus.

interesting info udo, i remember early on in the covid saga the medical experts said a side effect of the vacine was it may cause shingles and last year they had adverts out saying 1 in 5 (not sure exact nos) of ppl over age of 50(?) have a chance of developing shingles and no mention of the vacine causing side effect.

Your in the wrong thread tinhats

true.,,not the tin hat bit.

indo-dreaming Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 5:39pm

GuySmiley wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
gsco wrote:
you're doing well ID. Hats off to you.

The sole conservative torchbearer trying to rationally debate a twitter army of militant lefties brandishing all the usual and vulgar cancel culture and tribal warfare techniques.

It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.

Open and free debate is the bedrock of democracy.

Thanks gsco just trying to provide some balance, echo chamber's are boring, and i think diversity of views is important.

I’m left wondering whether @info is now providing an argument for the Voice or further proof of how delusional he is about his own personality trait of being a complete arsehole at every possible opportunity. Bullshit away.

Im telling you now Guy dont you dare ever send me an invoice expecting me to pay, cause lets be clear im living completely rent free in your head.

truebluebasher Sunday, 8 Oct 2023 at 5:48pm

These Flip Flop Reffos ring a bell

[><] Dutch Polling Graph on Referendum to 'Amend' Constitution for EU
[Ja] 2004 Oct 50% 2005 March (Even) June [X] 38.46%
[Nee] 2004 Oct 20% 2005 March (Even) June [X] 61.54%

[><] French Polling Graph on Referendum to 'Amend' Constitution for EU
[OUI] 2004: 69% > 2005 March 50%> May [Vote] 45.33%
[NON] 2004: 31% > 2005 March 50% > May [Vote] 54.67%

Background 2001 EU > Amend Constitutions (Rejected) Dec 2007 EU Treaty > 2009 Law

[><[Vote]><] UK Brexit Polling Graph includes [Now even Larger Reffo Regret > by hard Brexit camp]

[Remain] 2013 @ 45% > 2016 Vote [x] 48% (Sept '21@ 40%) EU 40-45% > Now UK 50%
[2nd Reffo] 5yrs 48% > 10+yrs 20%

[Leave] 2013 @ 35% > 2016 Vote [x] 52% (Sept '21 @ 40%) EU 15-20% > Now UK 34%
[2nd Reffo] No 25%

[ //[Vote]><] Scotland Independence Polling Graph includes [ Reffo Regret]
[Yes] 2011/12 (Self Govt) 35% > 2014 Vote [X] 44.7% > 2022 Jan 45% > Now 47%
[No] 2011/12 (Self Govt) 55% > 2014 Vote [X] 55.3% > 2022 Jan 45% > Now 43%

[><] Oz Voice Polling Graph to 'Alter' Constitution to include Indigenous...(Reffo Regret is Skyrocketing)
..........................................................................................................

1962 NZ Voice is Maori Council + 1840 Treaty of Waitangi
https://www.nzmaoricouncil.org.nz/

1971 Canada's Voice is Congress of Aboriginal Peoples
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/corporate/transparen...
Treaties 1701 > (British / French / Canadian) >1921 + 1973 Canada onwards 25 treaties
https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1314977704533/1544620451420
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/corporate/transparen...

1878 -1871 ~ US entered into 500 Treaties 374 ratified.
https://www.atns.net.au/international-treaties

Australia has no Treaty > Ongoing Battle for Land Rights > Waging War for the last butter menthol.

Aukus Express Post Warhead Funneller : "Sir!...Picking up Stormy's moaning on Putin's Porn Channel!"
Albo : "Is she screaming Yes! Yes! Yes!...we've found our secret WMD Voicebox to target the Boomers!"

Human Rights Watch Oz Reffo Q&A
Hot Tip ***** HRW concise easy to read guide for Oz Voice / Treaty!
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/09/11/qa-australias-referendum-aboriginal-...

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