The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Some historical context on the framing of the Constitution from Thomas Keneally
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/commentisfree/2023/oct/07/thi...
Looking around the world, it seems that self determination is presented as THE answer to a host of challenges for FNP. Canada and NZ discussions of issues and solutions echo everything in Australia. I read up about Canada and at the end of each research paper listing the problems there seems to be predictable glib answer that self determination will fix all the deep intractable problems if only it was fully given.
It sounds logical and has a sense of rightness. But it is also presented as a magic cure. The evidence for this is either not given or is a series of positive hope-generating examples that are small in scale, in some region, where a business was set up and employed some people or a small program helped out a community. The big picture data dial on disadvantage never seems to shift.
Meanwhile, South Africa is well down the self determination path. The ANC has total political control of government. There are regulations requiring minimum levels of equity ownership of by black people (BEE levels). The public service has strong policies favouring local black control of policy and implementation.
The shift to self determination occurred with strong starting point in terms of the economy and infrastructure. It was set up with favourable foundations for success. and much hope. Decades later, how is it going?
Sadly South Africa is now well down the path to being a failed state. The electricity system barely works. Crime, unemployment and poor health is out of control.
Why? The list of reasons is long. Some are external forces but much lies at the feet of the ANC and local factors and people. Incompetence, poor leadership, tribal factions, a population who has come to accept and tolerate corruption and failure etc.
These are very human failings that, across the world, are more the norm than the exception in all countries and cultures. Economic and social success is not a given default outcome. It is hard to achieve and quite brittle. Argentina shows how shaky success can be and is close to being a failed state despite its great potential.
https://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/sa-heading-towards-a-failed-state-if-c...
Self determination is not the finish line. It is just a step in long journey with much hard work and many pitfalls awaiting.
Good ethical leadership, competence and good implementation in all facets of life and human society are far more important than striving to negotiate the "Big Deal", or having "new" ideas and hopium.
Success is usually a long hard slog. Is the proposed big committee up for that?
@indo , I remember you posting that it’s ok for liberals to cross the floor, seems they may be penalised if they promote the yes campaign however . https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2023/09/09/liberal-yes...
Supafreak wrote:
. No mention of abolishing Australia Day or paying rent to FNP , don’t be fooled by lies & misinformation.
Australia day will 100% be a target at some point even those involved have clearly said that it will be.
In reply to Linda Burney claims Australia day wont be affected in June
Sydney lawyer Teela Reid joined in saying she believed the national holiday should be scrapped.
'It is truly disingenuous to be claiming mob won't be demanding to #AbolishAustralia day,' she tweeted in June.
'It started decades before the referendum, it'll still be a demand after it.'
She is also a member of the Voice Referendum Engagement Group
Paying the rent has been said in exactly those words by the guy that Souther raw provided a podcast link to. Thomas mayo
The Uluru statement from the heart on page 19 in regards to Treaty even says
https://www.niaa.gov.au/sites/default/files/foi-log/foi-2223-016.pdf
And its a very common theme through meeting minute notes
The Voice provides more possibly and power of this ever happening with a national Treaty..
All this shit needs to be prevented, shit is already going to far, my sister was planning to do an little camping trip with the kids down the coast to Bear Gully but the camping ground has apparently been closed to the public for the last six months because Aboriginal groups dont want folk camping there anymore, i doubt it will ever re open now.
https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/popular-campsite-closed-o...
Its time to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough, if this shit is happening now imagine when more power is given, and there is similar example happening all around Australia.
Just another recent one
"Outraged locals lash out after being blocked from accessing their favourite beach - after a local Aboriginal group's successful native title claim"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11870035/Native-title-separatin...
Heres some more perspective of how far things have already gone, yes most wont get through but they still try, like everything its ALL ABOUT MONEY AND POWER
BTW. The question doesn't even have the words advisory body on it, the whole wording of changes should be on the ballot paper.
You still don’t get it do ya indo ? It’s an advisory body , it has no power , it’s up to the government of the day to act on advice or ignore it . Why is this so hard for some to understand ? Too many freaking out about the “ secret government documents “ fark me some people are gullible .
Supafreak wrote:You still don’t get it do ya indo ? It’s an advisory body , it has no power , it’s up to the government of the day to act on advice or ignore it . Why is this so hard for some to understand ? Too many freaking ot about the “ secret government documents “ fark me some people ate guilable .
You are either very naive or just being disingenuous.
Having this in the constitution means it must be listened too it cant just keep saying No, it puts all kinds of political pressure on the government and will cause all types of holds ups and issues if say No, and the government cant get rid of it, because dumb arse fools like you voted it into the constitution.
@indo , if the no vote gets up , some people like wazza are still going to be calling for Australia day to be changed, they are still going to be wanting a treaty , truth telling etc etc , do you truly believe the voice has all this power , that if listened to it automatically means the government must act on it ? You gotta be kidding me .
There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
https://m.
Who really cares if the date of Australia Day changes??
Geez it's only officially been in 26th Jan since 1994. Hardly an entrenched tradition! What a beat up.
As long as they keep it a public holiday so we can celebrate! :)
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:
Australia day will 100% be a target at some point even those involved have clearly said that it will be.
In reply to Linda Burney claims Australia day wont be affected in June
Sydney lawyer Teela Reid joined in saying she believed the national holiday should be scrapped.
'It is truly disingenuous to be claiming mob won't be demanding to #AbolishAustralia day,' she tweeted in June.
'It started decades before the referendum, it'll still be a demand after it.'
She is also a member of the Voice Referendum Engagement Group
Paying the rent has been said in exactly those words by the guy that Souther raw provided a podcast link to. Thomas mayo
The Uluru statement from the heart on page 19 in regards to Treaty even says
https://www.niaa.gov.au/sites/default/files/foi-log/foi-2223-016.pdfAnd its a very common theme through meeting minute notes
The Voice provides more possibly and power of this ever happening with a national Treaty..
All this shit needs to be prevented, shit is already going to far, my sister was planning to do an little camping trip with the kids down the coast to Bear Gully but the camping ground has apparently been closed to the public for the last six months because Aboriginal groups dont want folk camping there anymore, i doubt it will ever re open now.
https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/popular-campsite-closed-o...
Its time to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough, if this shit is happening now imagine when more power is given, and there is similar example happening all around Australia.
Just another recent one
"Outraged locals lash out after being blocked from accessing their favourite beach - after a local Aboriginal group's successful native title claim"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11870035/Native-title-separatin...
Heres some more perspective of how far things have already gone, yes most wont get through but they still try, like everything its ALL ABOUT MONEY AND POWER
BTW. The question doesn't even have the words advisory body on it, the whole wording of changes should be on the ballot paper.
Geez Indo
You should sit down with those judges and other legal experts and explain it to them how they got it so wrong!
frog wrote:Looking around the world, it seems that self determination is presented as THE answer to a host of challenges for FNP. Canada and NZ discussions of issues and solutions echo everything in Australia. I read up about Canada and at the end of each research paper listing the problems there seems to be predictable glib answer that self determination will fix all the deep intractable problems if only it was fully given.
It sounds logical and has a sense of rightness. But it is also presented as a magic cure. The evidence for this is either not given or is a series of positive hope-generating examples that are small in scale, in some region, where a business was set up and employed some people or a small program helped out a community. The big picture data dial on disadvantage never seems to shift.
Meanwhile, South Africa is well down the self determination path. The ANC has total political control of government. There are regulations requiring minimum levels of equity ownership of by black people (BEE levels). The public service has strong policies favouring local black control of policy and implementation.
The shift to self determination occurred with strong starting point in terms of the economy and infrastructure. It was set up with favourable foundations for success. and much hope. Decades later, how is it going?
Sadly South Africa is now well down the path to being a failed state. The electricity system barely works. Crime, unemployment and poor health is out of control.
Why? The list of reasons is long. Some are external forces but much lies at the feet of the ANC and local factors and people. Incompetence, poor leadership, tribal factions, a population who has come to accept and tolerate corruption and failure etc.
These are very human failings that, across the world, are more the norm than the exception in all countries and cultures. Economic and social success is not a given default outcome. It is hard to achieve and quite brittle. Argentina shows how shaky success can be and is close to being a failed state despite its great potential.
https://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/sa-heading-towards-a-failed-state-if-c...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KgcH2tR1ZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cew-BnjA_q4
Self determination is not the finish line. It is just a step in long journey with much hard work and many pitfalls awaiting.
Good ethical leadership, competence and good implementation in all facets of life and human society are far more important than striving to negotiate the "Big Deal", or having "new" ideas and hopium.
Success is usually a long hard slog. Is the proposed big committee up for that?
Are u serious Tadpole? South Africa where the black population is in the majority? Aboriginal people barely 3% of the Australian population...huge difference. Another paranoid nutjob!!
andy-mac wrote:Who really cares if the date of Australia Day changes??
Geez it's only officially been in 26th Jan since 1994. Hardly an entrenched tradition! What a beat up.
As long as they keep it a public holiday so we can celebrate! :)
Exactly... why do these hysterics latch on to any trivial matter? U can still celebrate Australia Day on the 26th if it tickles your fancy... and yes this issue was way b4 the reffo. Australia as a mature nation (and hopefully a Republic in good time) needs to take a leap of faith and make reparations for the crimes of it's past. History is not something that happened all that time ago... we're still living with the consequences... why u think the cashed up farmers are freaking out once again... Time to pay the rent you privileged whiteys
indo-dreaming wrote:There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
And there u have it... Indo finally comes clean... "taking the power away"... We can't have those blackfellas accessing any ADVISORY power can we! Next they'll start spearing our cattle again the hungry bastards.
indo-dreaming wrote:There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
it undraws a blurry line in the sky?
+3 to you Harry Coopr.
Bravo sir.
Was thinking the same about the Sth African population but not sure on numbers.
Also i'm not sure if they originally sat all the individual tribes down the same way that happened in oz for the statement from the heart to find common ground to begin with.
Maybe?
And agree. Rent is well overdue!!
indo-dreaming wrote:There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
What is this “ power “ that you speak of ? The power to be heard ? Is that what you’re deeply against ? Fark me indo , you need help .
@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??
anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.
on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".
why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??
my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.
any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.
oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.
sameaswas wrote:@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??
anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".
why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.
oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.
I’m calling bullshit on your senior citizen neighbour story , I voted on Wednesday this week , I was asked if I had a reason for voting early , I told them I would be working on the 14th , I wasn’t asked for any ID just asked me my name and what was my address, the same as any other time I’ve voted .
How good is A.B Briggs.
A good weapon to have for the Deadly mob to be sure.
harrycoopr wrote:Are u serious Tadpole? South Africa where the black population is in the majority? Aboriginal people barely 3% of the Australian population...huge difference. Another paranoid nutjob!!
I was discussing a concept - self determination - that for decades has been at the centre of the ambitions of FNP and now, the Uluru Statement.
Some questions seem worth considering. Is far greater self determination a simple winner with an endless stream of success around the world? Does it have challenges? What can go wrong? Why does it go wrong? How can pitfalls be avoided?
South Africa is a real life example of it put to work on a large scale with sufficient time to make some judgments on progress and how it works in practice on any scale.
Hopefully observing and discussing such "lessons learned" and potential pitfalls is not seen as "nut job" stuff by the Voice leadership. They need to listen and learn from the lived experiences of others with greater first hand knowledge, just as they advocate, to make whatever comes next work.
sameaswas wrote:@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??
anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".
why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.
oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.
Sameasitteverwas...that's how u want it huh? Same as it ever was. Well sorry bud, one way or another, voice or no voice, the blackfellas are going to keep up their struggles and demands... we can do it the easy polite way thru reconciliation or we can do it the hard way where blackfellas close down yr local parks or whatever, stop polluting mines, and ripping off and smashing whitey in anger, filling up the prisons.
As for Briggs, he ain't my role model... just the latest in a long line of angry black men tired of how his people are treated... go back to No Fixed Address for some funky beats... or Jimmy Little if you want to be soothed. It ain't same as it ever was bud... the times they are a'changin... get on the train or stay stuck in the rain (my hiphop attempt)... now rethink yr stupidity before Briggsy flattens ya...
Supafreak wrote:sameaswas wrote:@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??
anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".
why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.
oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.
I’m calling bullshit on your senior citizen neighbour story , I voted on Wednesday this week , I was asked if I had a reason for voting early , I told them I would be working on the 14th , I wasn’t asked for any ID just asked me my name and what was my address, the same as any other time I’ve voted .
Yep total BS. I voted Thursday and it’s as Supa described. Is that the latest conspiracy? That voting isn’t anonymous this time.
southernraw wrote:How good is A.B Briggs.
A good weapon to have for the Deadly mob to be sure.
Have you listened to the lyrics in their songs?
Also telling people to google it isn’t giving anyone the answers they need.
I did like him previously, but look a little closer
Supafreak wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
What is this “ power “ that you speak of ? The power to be heard ? Is that what you’re deeply against ? Fark me indo , you need help .
I believe the concern of power would come from Albanese statement saying - it would be a very brave government that would ignore a recommendation from the voice.
That statement certainly suggest a large level of persuading advice - ie power.
https://m.
&pp=ygURUGF0dGVybnMgbWFhbnl1bmc%3D cd wrote:Supafreak wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
What is this “ power “ that you speak of ? The power to be heard ? Is that what you’re deeply against ? Fark me indo , you need help .
I believe the concern of power would come from Albanese statement saying - it would be a very brave government that would ignore a recommendation from the voice.
That statement certainly suggest a large level of persuading advice - ie power.
Scared ain't ya whitey!
cd wrote:Supafreak wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
What is this “ power “ that you speak of ? The power to be heard ? Is that what you’re deeply against ? Fark me indo , you need help .
I believe the concern of power would come from Albanese statement saying - it would be a very brave government that would ignore a recommendation from the voice.
That statement certainly suggest a large level of persuading advice - ie power.
Well governments have been ignoring advise for decades, what were the recommendations after the RC ?
harrycoopr wrote:cd wrote:Supafreak wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
What is this “ power “ that you speak of ? The power to be heard ? Is that what you’re deeply against ? Fark me indo , you need help .
I believe the concern of power would come from Albanese statement saying - it would be a very brave government that would ignore a recommendation from the voice.
That statement certainly suggest a large level of persuading advice - ie power.Scared ain't ya whitey!
.
Not sure what you mean Harry- i think you may have jumped to conclusions. whitey? big white sharks scare me - yep
Supafreak wrote:cd wrote:Supafreak wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:There will always be those wanting those things but stoping the voice takes some power away and it draws a clear line in the sand a line drawn by the majority of Australians.
A yes vote basically does the opposite.
What is this “ power “ that you speak of ? The power to be heard ? Is that what you’re deeply against ? Fark me indo , you need help .
I believe the concern of power would come from Albanese statement saying - it would be a very brave government that would ignore a recommendation from the voice.
That statement certainly suggest a large level of persuading advice - ie power.Well governments have been ignoring advise for decades, what were the recommendations after the RC ?
True that, don't know.
Hi CD here’s a cut and paste
‘The 339 recommendations fell into two main categories: those focused on improving the interaction of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples at first contact with police and the justice system; and, those addressing policies such as health, education and self-determination in recognition of the broader social issues leading to higher rates of incarceration. The recommendations noted the importance of including Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and their perspectives in all matters. Such recommendations included; policy development, criminal justice matters, and the operation of programs for crime prevention and social control, to ensure they are culturally and socially appropriate.’
https://antar.org.au/issues/justice/deaths-custody/
Over 30 years ago! Things have gotten worse. Finally we can get around to that self determination bit and the country’s lost it mind over it.
Green Ant Bully's Audio Visual Deportment...another #1 swellnet exclusive rant.
2000's see Party Pollies ditching their Toxic Brands from Leader's larger Posh Billboards
This naturally saves Massive Pie in the Sky cleaning & Maintenance Bills suffered by Clive.
July 2019 AEC : ((( VOICE TREATY TRUTH ))) Being the First obvious Voice Exploitation AD.
https://www.facebook.com/aecourvoteourfuture/photos/pb.100069402750630.-...
[L] also have a long history of Poll Booth inner sanctum breaches
(eg) Caps / Kidz Balloons + Stickers / Dog Collars / Drink Bottles ( Pros at exploiting essential norms )
2019 [L] Exploits AEC Purple Print Corflutes for How 2 Vote Chinese Scam...(No Surprises there!)
This enabled [L] How 2 Vote to manipulate & breach the inner sanctum of Polling Booths...until busted.
[AEC] Review > Guidelines were adopted but oddly only for next 2022 Fed Election then lapsed...
2022 [Yes] 23 Exploited this Loophole by Morphing Pink/Purple + Oz Ribbon Effect = AEC {i}
[Yes] Edge P'n'P signs to bookend / hug [AEC] P'n'P {i} Staff [Signs] = All as one [AEC : Vote Yes]
2022 Reclaim Conservative Media yuppie's o/n Raid'n'Rebrands + Standard Nazi / Conmmie / Dick Pics
2023 Standard Conservative Hate Anti Voice (Texta / Spray / Tag) Rebrand graffiti is the Norm.
2023 Next Level Qldurr God Squad Power Tools cut a little too deep to Launch their Voice race war.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-26/mt-beerwah-vandalism/102397546
Rogues Gallery Voice their opinions
Vote =y=e=s= NO ( Sign of a frustrated struggling Artist)
https://www.examiner.com.au/images/transform/v1/crop/frm/202876253/f38e2...
Vote -Yes- NO! (Could be an Oi! Skinhead)
https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/ff71a07fa5d8c16656dc9000c8992d00
Vote N y..O + N y..O (Anarchic Punk Tags 'n' Runs)
https://www.examiner.com.au/images/transform/v1/crop/frm/202876253/61d1e...
First [Yeah/Nah] Signs [Vote yes no YES ] Fuck it...Now Anarchist tbb is thinking of enrolling!
https://www.examiner.com.au/images/transform/v1/crop/frm/202876253/925be...
https://www.examiner.com.au/images/transform/v1/crop/frm/202876253/e80ce...
Message in a Bottle or 2 : [ MORONS VOTE YES ] Vandal feels compromised by Pensioner's Comeback
https://www.portnews.com.au/images/transform/v1/crop/frm/ruby.pascoe/7db...
Vote YES if you're a Wanker...Artist lends a hand for a rise amongst the YES Camp.
https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/af37a5425b94fa87fc149088154016dc
[ To Fuck Up this Country Vote Yes means No but Yes ] results in a typical Aussieclustermindfuckorgy.
Now everyone walks around pretending to know shit about any of this Shitfuckery
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/6ee67e954b23c59362eb71c80a7fe81dd0256483/...
Think we have a winner...Hold Up!
{Intermission}
Bloody Idiot Award ( Aussie dickbrain comeback Special )
(110) Kms Hwy Signs = ( | \ | 0 ) > Now costs $5,000 / 1 yr Jail for 1 Strip of Black Electrical Tape
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-03/speed-signs-defaced-as-voice-refe...
https://www.9news.com.au/national/south-australia-news-speed-signs-vanda...
Lost my Voice...Signs. Oz #1 [L] seat / [LNP] Candidate has [YES] signs Stolen from Tree Change Party
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-04/yes-signs-stolen-voice-to-parliam...
Public Enemy #1 : We can't show the face of this evil [YES] Hustler...kinda blocking a [NO] Sign!
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231003-vote-on-indigenous-rights...
AEC : "This dastardly act Breaches our change booth Colour Scheme + It's Flagrant Vagrant Act!"
Green Ant Bully labelled accusations that this he's not an official AEC Masked Quaddie Vaxed Yuppie.
Albo : " It's possible he's a real Vagrant that is asking AEC to show him how 2 Vote...I'll send my Team."
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231003-vote-on-indigenous-rights...
Voice Police / Mayor : Huge Safety Concern with multiple incidents.
Dept of Transport are taking the issue "Very seriously"
District Council : "Really Disappointing!"
If ya wanna live long enough to Vote then avoid these Top 40 Virulent Voice Strain Hot Spots
Neo Nazis Back Yard BBQ has desecrated 2 Aboriginal Flags & threatened Lidia & others twice.
Dutto : "I have advised [L] Senators to use a 40ft Poll when hittin' on Lidia!"
[NO] LNP Vote mandated a divisive 24/7 Reffo Campaign & desecrate all OZ / Aboriginal Flags.
Avoid hoisting any Oz / regional flags near Civic Voting Booths + avoid Voting Booths!
[Yes] Southern Mission Slaves bully [NO] boomers by setting their Age Care Tellies to NITV.
SA : [Yes] Voters avoid ~ Mid North / Lower North / Eyre Peninsular
Warnertown / Port Perie / Port Wakefield / Barrier in Burra / World's End in Robertstown / Flinders in Port Lincoln / Arno Bay
Vic : [Yes] Voters avoid Booths Outside the City > Benalla Houses are being tagged [NO]
https://www.sheppnews.com.au/news/vandals-deface-walls-and-path-to-show-...
Tassie : North : Burnie-Launceston
Trevallyn is well outta bounds for [YES] Voters > Appeal for a [NO] Bully to cast your Vote!
Penguin [Yes] Signs gone missin'
https://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/8369926/you-cant-have-that-voice-ca...
NSW Sydney / Penrith / Glebe / Port Macqaurie / Ballina
[NO] Voters Watch out for that [YES] Gaytime clown gettin' a little too close with the [NO] Sign.
[NO] Architect was reportedly casually heckled...but [NO] Camp swear he was viciously cliched!
[Yes] Glebe Voters be on the watch for the [NO] Graffiti Bandit painting yer Purple Town 3x Purple.
https://centralnews.com.au/2023/10/06/yes-supporters-resolute-despite-va...
[YES] Voters branded a Morons in Port Macqaurie (see sign above)
Ballina's [NO] Sock Tan Bully Dog Handler Volunteers to take out the [YES] Sign. (Busted!)
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/campaign-worker-handing-...
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/campaign-worker-handing-...
Maroochydore : [NO] lodged a complaint about a lone colourful [YES] sign cheering up a Boomer Booth
https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/8aeb96d035b69cf7818fd868c4a191c4
Harvey Bay : [YES] Volunteer > Threw [NO] A frame a [NO] Volunteer bruising the Boomer's cankles.
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/voice-to-parliament/calls-for-...
harrycoopr wrote:andy-mac wrote:Who really cares if the date of Australia Day changes??
Geez it's only officially been in 26th Jan since 1994. Hardly an entrenched tradition! What a beat up.
As long as they keep it a public holiday so we can celebrate! :)Exactly... why do these hysterics latch on to any trivial matter? U can still celebrate Australia Day on the 26th if it tickles your fancy... and yes this issue was way b4 the reffo. Australia as a mature nation (and hopefully a Republic in good time) needs to take a leap of faith and make reparations for the crimes of it's past. History is not something that happened all that time ago... we're still living with the consequences... why u think the cashed up farmers are freaking out once again... Time to pay the rent you privileged whiteys
The idea of reparations is perverse. As if welfare dependency isn’t a big enough problem already. Similar to mining royalties, reparations will only exacerbate the problems.
There’s a serious lack of imagination here. It’s always about only one thing - money.
Supafreak wrote:sameaswas wrote:@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??
anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".
why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.
oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.
I’m calling bullshit on your senior citizen neighbour story , I voted on Wednesday this week , I was asked if I had a reason for voting early , I told them I would be working on the 14th , I wasn’t asked for any ID just asked me my name and what was my address, the same as any other time I’ve voted .
supa it's a true story her hubby did same, will ask at polling station when i do mine asap and will get back to you in a day or two, they did it in the next suburb but should'nt make a diff.
Calls for Voice audit may put Mundine-linked firms in spotlight
Peter Dutton’s attempts to question spending on Indigenous programs may put $7 million in government contracts linked to No campaigner and businessman Warren Mundine under the spotlight, with Voice advocates calling for the grants to be reviewed.
The Liberal leader and opposition Indigenous affairs spokeswoman Jacinta Nampijinpa Price this week proposed an audit of spending by successive governments in program delivery, to ensure it was going to the “most deserving” recipients. Under the former Coalition government, companies linked to Mr Mundine received more than $7.1 million in contracts to deliver training and employment services, and for subsidised wages for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander employees.
Mr Mundine’s company Nyungga Black Group also received funding for a Sky News program called Mundine Means Business, showcasing entrepreneurship and enterprise by Indigenous-led firms.
The No campaign figurehead is a fixture of Australian politics, having served as the national president of the Labor Party before quitting the party and running as a Liberal candidate at the 2019 election, handpicked by then prime minister Scott Morrison.
As part of his push against the Voice to parliament, Mr Mundine argues most Indigenous Australians “are doing fine”. He reckons government should focus on disadvantage at the margins, including in remote communities.
Mundine Means Business, which ran for two seasons on Sky in 2017 and 2018, was funded as part of the Coalition’s Indigenous Advancement Strategy.
A spokesman for Mr Mundine told The Australian Financial Review the program “was created to highlight Aboriginal business and entrepreneurship and to change misperceptions about Aboriginals in the wider community”.
Freedom of information documents released by the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet show funding for the second season of the show was approved before a grant application had been submitted.
Mr Mundine was paid $255,983 for his work as co-chair of the Abbott government’s Indigenous Advisory Council between 2013 and 2017.
The company Real Futures Pty Ltd, of which Mr Mundine was a director until early 2019 and in which he held an 18 per cent share through Nyungga Black Group, received eight contracts from the federal government, including for wage subsidies to help Indigenous people find jobs. Under spending for federal government Vocational Training and Employment Centres (VTEC), Real Futures received more than $6 million for services in the NSW North Coast and Hunter regions, in Western Australia’s Geraldton and Pilbara regions, and for oil and gas industry programs in WA. The Financial Review is not suggesting Real Futures did not provide any of the services it was supposed to under the contracts, or that there were any issues with the contracts being awarded in the first place.
VTECs are established to help potential workers find sustainable jobs. Participants include highly disadvantaged Indigenous jobseekers.
Mr Mundine says 1000 Aboriginal people go to work every day because of his businesses, and claims credit for government policies that have led to 45,000 Indigenous people finding a job.
The spokesman said Mr Mundine forfeited his shares in Real Futures Pty Ltd when he resigned from its board and received no remuneration or distributions from the company.
Mr Mundine divested business interests when he was recruited to run for the lower house NSW seat of Gilmore. There is no suggestion of wrongdoing on his part in relation to the contracts.
No campaigners have used Productivity Commission figures to claim about $35 billion is spent every year on Indigenous people. However, the commission’s Indigenous Expenditure Review shows only 18 per cent, or $6 billion, goes to direct spending on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. The rest goes to consumption of mainstream services by Indigenous people, including health and aged care, education, and the justice system.
Leading Yes campaigner Marcus Stewart dismissed calls for an audit of Indigenous spending.
“Another day, another distraction from the No campaign, wanting to talk about everything other than the actual question that’s being put to the Australian people,” he told the Financial Review.
“It’s well known Warren Mundine has received government funding, so therefore I assume he will be at the front of the line when it comes to these audits.”
Mr Mundine this month withdrew from the race to replace former foreign minister Marise Payne in the Senate, after he restated long-held support for treaties with Indigenous communities and moving the date of Australia Day away from January 26.
He had been considered a frontrunner for the NSW Senate vacancy, likely capitalising on the Voice referendum result.
Prime Minister and Cabinet referred questions about contracts to the National Indigenous Australians Agency. A spokeswoman for the agency declined to comment. https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/calls-for-voice-audit-may-put-mundi... Whats wazza worth these days $11 million odd , done alright for himself.
Supafreak wrote:Calls for Voice audit may put Mundine-linked firms in spotlight
Peter Dutton’s attempts to question spending on Indigenous programs may put $7 million in government contracts linked to No campaigner and businessman Warren Mundine under the spotlight, with Voice advocates calling for the grants to be reviewed.
The Liberal leader and opposition Indigenous affairs spokeswoman Jacinta Nampijinpa Price this week proposed an audit of spending by successive governments in program delivery, to ensure it was going to the “most deserving” recipients. Under the former Coalition government, companies linked to Mr Mundine received more than $7.1 million in contracts to deliver training and employment services, and for subsidised wages for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander employees.
Mr Mundine’s company Nyungga Black Group also received funding for a Sky News program called Mundine Means Business, showcasing entrepreneurship and enterprise by Indigenous-led firms.
The No campaign figurehead is a fixture of Australian politics, having served as the national president of the Labor Party before quitting the party and running as a Liberal candidate at the 2019 election, handpicked by then prime minister Scott Morrison.
As part of his push against the Voice to parliament, Mr Mundine argues most Indigenous Australians “are doing fine”. He reckons government should focus on disadvantage at the margins, including in remote communities.
Mundine Means Business, which ran for two seasons on Sky in 2017 and 2018, was funded as part of the Coalition’s Indigenous Advancement Strategy.
A spokesman for Mr Mundine told The Australian Financial Review the program “was created to highlight Aboriginal business and entrepreneurship and to change misperceptions about Aboriginals in the wider community”.
Freedom of information documents released by the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet show funding for the second season of the show was approved before a grant application had been submitted.
Mr Mundine was paid $255,983 for his work as co-chair of the Abbott government’s Indigenous Advisory Council between 2013 and 2017.
The company Real Futures Pty Ltd, of which Mr Mundine was a director until early 2019 and in which he held an 18 per cent share through Nyungga Black Group, received eight contracts from the federal government, including for wage subsidies to help Indigenous people find jobs. Under spending for federal government Vocational Training and Employment Centres (VTEC), Real Futures received more than $6 million for services in the NSW North Coast and Hunter regions, in Western Australia’s Geraldton and Pilbara regions, and for oil and gas industry programs in WA. The Financial Review is not suggesting Real Futures did not provide any of the services it was supposed to under the contracts, or that there were any issues with the contracts being awarded in the first place.
VTECs are established to help potential workers find sustainable jobs. Participants include highly disadvantaged Indigenous jobseekers.
Mr Mundine says 1000 Aboriginal people go to work every day because of his businesses, and claims credit for government policies that have led to 45,000 Indigenous people finding a job.
The spokesman said Mr Mundine forfeited his shares in Real Futures Pty Ltd when he resigned from its board and received no remuneration or distributions from the company.
Mr Mundine divested business interests when he was recruited to run for the lower house NSW seat of Gilmore. There is no suggestion of wrongdoing on his part in relation to the contracts.
No campaigners have used Productivity Commission figures to claim about $35 billion is spent every year on Indigenous people. However, the commission’s Indigenous Expenditure Review shows only 18 per cent, or $6 billion, goes to direct spending on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. The rest goes to consumption of mainstream services by Indigenous people, including health and aged care, education, and the justice system.
Leading Yes campaigner Marcus Stewart dismissed calls for an audit of Indigenous spending.
“Another day, another distraction from the No campaign, wanting to talk about everything other than the actual question that’s being put to the Australian people,” he told the Financial Review.
“It’s well known Warren Mundine has received government funding, so therefore I assume he will be at the front of the line when it comes to these audits.”
Mr Mundine this month withdrew from the race to replace former foreign minister Marise Payne in the Senate, after he restated long-held support for treaties with Indigenous communities and moving the date of Australia Day away from January 26.
He had been considered a frontrunner for the NSW Senate vacancy, likely capitalising on the Voice referendum result.
Prime Minister and Cabinet referred questions about contracts to the National Indigenous Australians Agency. A spokeswoman for the agency declined to comment. https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/calls-for-voice-audit-may-put-mundi... Whats wazza worth these days $11 million odd , done alright for himself.
Once again... Exactly!! Any fool can see Mundine's only looking after his number one concern, himself. Same as Price. They always say "follow the money" and these two coconuts are obvious examples. Absolutely sickening. I've seen these types at conferences etc where everything's laid on and they work the networks etc for their ongoing benefit. As with the Noalition, you really think these types of ppl give a rat's arse about their countrymen or constitutents??
waveman wrote:harrycoopr wrote:andy-mac wrote:Who really cares if the date of Australia Day changes??
Geez it's only officially been in 26th Jan since 1994. Hardly an entrenched tradition! What a beat up.
As long as they keep it a public holiday so we can celebrate! :)Exactly... why do these hysterics latch on to any trivial matter? U can still celebrate Australia Day on the 26th if it tickles your fancy... and yes this issue was way b4 the reffo. Australia as a mature nation (and hopefully a Republic in good time) needs to take a leap of faith and make reparations for the crimes of it's past. History is not something that happened all that time ago... we're still living with the consequences... why u think the cashed up farmers are freaking out once again... Time to pay the rent you privileged whiteys
The idea of reparations is perverse. As if welfare dependency isn’t a big enough problem already. Similar to mining royalties, reparations will only exacerbate the problems.
There’s a serious lack of imagination here. It’s always about only one thing - money.
Who said anything about money? Altho it usually comes down to that. Reparations could mean more support (money!) for the homeland movement which the LNP always try to undermine. People want to live on their land...
harrycoopr wrote:sameaswas wrote:@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??
anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".
why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.
oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.
Sameasitteverwas...that's how u want it huh? Same as it ever was. Well sorry bud, one way or another, voice or no voice, the blackfellas are going to keep up their struggles and demands... we can do it the easy polite way thru reconciliation or we can do it the hard way where blackfellas close down yr local parks or whatever, stop polluting mines, and ripping off and smashing whitey in anger, filling up the prisons.
As for Briggs, he ain't my role model... just the latest in a long line of angry black men tired of how his people are treated... go back to No Fixed Address for some funky beats... or Jimmy Little if you want to be soothed. It ain't same as it ever was bud... the times they are a'changin... get on the train or stay stuck in the rain (my hiphop attempt)... now rethink yr stupidity before Briggsy flattens ya...
harry the fnp have allready shutdown parks and camping grounds, wilsons prom native title claim 8+mnths shutdown of campground while in negotiation with govt and another clan is argueing with the first clan who put claim in as to who "owns" it.
a native title claim can last 6yrs thats not includeing how long the competeing claims take to settle. so we are all denied access till these matters are sorted.
i don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train.
sameaswas wrote:harrycoopr wrote:sameaswas wrote:@harrycooper...have you watched your role models music videos yet? briggsy aka king billy??
anyhoo heres some more info to prove what a sham (scam) this voice reffo is.
first off all the ruleing elite want it: business council of oz, law council of oz, banks etc etc.on thursday the aust electoral commitee put out a statement saying "it may take upto 2 weeks before the result is made".
why not the next day? this is a simple yes or no ballot paper not a state or federal election with all the complexities of multiple parties and preferential votes that have to be scrutinised and checked and yet in less than 24hrs we know who will lead us, so why a 2wk delay in counting?
nonono i am not going down a "trumpian" jan 6 hole, just stateing the fact that aec are saying upto 2wk delay in result...why why why??my senior citizen neighbours put an early vote in yestertday and are angry and suss about what they were forced to go through.
they had to fill out a form with their names and address,car licence number, mobile phone number and then vote and that information was stapled to their ballot paper and placed in box.any uni degree legal ppl care to explain to me why this is? never heard of it before nor my neighbours.
oh yer harry are you king billy incognito? cos you carry on like him.
Sameasitteverwas...that's how u want it huh? Same as it ever was. Well sorry bud, one way or another, voice or no voice, the blackfellas are going to keep up their struggles and demands... we can do it the easy polite way thru reconciliation or we can do it the hard way where blackfellas close down yr local parks or whatever, stop polluting mines, and ripping off and smashing whitey in anger, filling up the prisons.
As for Briggs, he ain't my role model... just the latest in a long line of angry black men tired of how his people are treated... go back to No Fixed Address for some funky beats... or Jimmy Little if you want to be soothed. It ain't same as it ever was bud... the times they are a'changin... get on the train or stay stuck in the rain (my hiphop attempt)... now rethink yr stupidity before Briggsy flattens ya...harry the fnp have allready shutdown parks and camping grounds, wilsons prom native title claim 8+mnths shutdown of campground while in negotiation with govt and another clan is argueing with the first clan who put claim in as to who "owns" it.
a native title claim can last 6yrs thats not includeing how long the competeing claims take to settle. so we are all denied access till these matters are sorted.
i don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train.
"I don't like your fnp privelidged first class carriage on your gravy train."
Of course u don't ... that's why yr voting no. God forbid blackfellas don't want people on their land till everything's sorted out. It's not like we let them trespass whenever they wanted. I've travelled far and wide and have never had an issue with camping etc when I've approached the locals and asked permission... last time was Wreck Bay... they had a sign up saying road to Aussie pipe was closed so I asked some locals and they said no worries, go check it out. Years ago an anthropologist wrote a paper about the Western Desert groups called "Always ask"... it's just common courtesy when travelling on someone's property. And a good thing to think about is the hypothetical if the Chinese invaded us... guess you'd be pissed too if they started trampling all over yr garden and sleeping in yr house... and taking yr kids off ya.
You do know Harry that calling black people coconuts is considered very racist.
In addition to all your other name calling, I reckon you're doing your bit to consolidate the No vote. So if the no vote gets up (which I personally hope it doesn't) you and people of your ilk can give yourselves a big pat on the back.
Btw- I had the mis-pleasure of meeting Ray Martin at a function quite a few years back. Wish I wasn't introduced to him. He's an arrogant, pretentious, conceited wanker and another one who's gonna seal the No vote.
Here you go Zen
Re: sign wars, have seen spray paint defacing of signs locally. Usually in an election it's a moustache on a candidate...
Completely disageee Zen. your opinion so fair enough..I wish there were more Harrys holding people accountable.
Good on ya Harrycoopr. Telling the truth seems to make alot of people uncomfortable doesn't it.
And waveman, what the actual fuck are you going on about reparations being more money spent?
Who said that and where??
Read the original post to this thread.
The whole point is to look beyond the simplified money fixit and consider the rightful reparations for past injustices.
What do you think would b rightful?
southernraw wrote:Completely disageee Zen. your opinion so fair enough..I wish there were more Harrys holding people accountable.
Good on ya Harrycoopr. Telling the truth seems to make alot of people uncomfortable doesn't it.
And waveman, what the actual fuck are you going on about reparations being more money spent?
Who said that and where??
Read the original post to this thread.
The whole point is to look beyond the simplified money fixit and consider the rightful reparations for past injustices.
What do you think would b rightful?
Truth? Like calling FNP coconuts?
You do realise this makes Harry a big time racist, and you’re celebrating it.
Hey Southern, I'm not denying Harrys passion nor his motive- it's the delivery. And flat out abusing people or using racist slurs (and yep, coconut is a racist slur in most peoples eyes) is not holding people to account and not truthful by a long shot. In addition, the people that have come on here stating they would vote no for the most part have conducted themselves quite civilly and thankfully, most of the yes camp too with some exceptions.
I reckon a ton of people have remained silent on this thread regardless of how they intend to vote because they don't want to be subjected to the sort or crap that's scattered throughout this thread.
BTW, is Harry Viclocal?
Cheers VJ- only a top bloke when a camera is around.
Point taken @zen. If harrys anything like me, it gets to a point where not only on here, but dealing with the casual racism that exists in everyday society takes you to the brink of your patience and politeness. This thread is a good example of that. The amount of times ive layed out researched poimts on key parts of the debate to only then have that information ignored and the same people going on with their ill educated dribble eventually wears one diwn to a point, that a punk rock royal fuck.you is all thats left.
Look at Burleigh as a prime example.
Sits and waits for an opportunity to make snide little trolling remarks.
Yet when ive tried to engage in a thorough discussion, particularly about indigenous education attendance rates dropping and incarceration rates rising, and how in relation to this, he thinks indigenous Australians are doing well and their lives are progressing so no change is necessary, well, you know.
As for coconut, had no idea about that one. Fair enough but wasn't something ive ever been aware of. I would guarantee the last thing Mr Coopr would be is racist though, obviously, based on the content and context of his posts.
Cheers zen.
Yeah I agree with Zen on this one. The 'conversation' and 'debate' is finished when the abuse and nastiness kicks in. Not singling anyone or any side out either, but I don't think it does the Voice any good.
I also agree that Ray Martin is a bit of a prick.
John Safran calls him out.
Cheers TS. Hear ya.
haha as eggy as Ray was there, he was kinda cool with those sunnies and shirt and the old 'i've said what i want to say' line at the end.
good to see him cop a dose of what he dished out though.
burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Completely disageee Zen. your opinion so fair enough..I wish there were more Harrys holding people accountable.
Good on ya Harrycoopr. Telling the truth seems to make alot of people uncomfortable doesn't it.
And waveman, what the actual fuck are you going on about reparations being more money spent?
Who said that and where??
Read the original post to this thread.
The whole point is to look beyond the simplified money fixit and consider the rightful reparations for past injustices.
What do you think would b rightful?Truth? Like calling FNP coconuts?
You do realise this makes Harry a big time racist, and you’re celebrating it.
Hehe.. burley. Alltime idiot. It's true u only appear to have a shitstir then disappear like the little weasel u are.
As for coconuts thats a blackfella's term for one of their own who acts more whitefella than blackfella... Mundine being a great example!! I use blackfella or Aboriginal rather than fnp or Indigenous bc that's what blackfellas have told me they prefer.
As for insults, my oh my aren't we a sensitive lot... my patience does run dry after reading such antagonistic or covertly racist or just plain stupid comments over and over... it's like trying to shake someone back into reality... but when yr dealing with tinfoil hat wearers like burley I'm afraid there's not much hope so u may as well fling the shit back at him... he seems to enjoy that.
andy-mac wrote:Who really cares if the date of Australia Day changes??
Geez it's only officially been in 26th Jan since 1994. Hardly an entrenched tradition! What a beat up.
As long as they keep it a public holiday so we can celebrate! :)
Completely WRONG thats pure ignorance.
Yes its only been a national holiday set on the 26th Jan since 1994 before that it was a floating holiday since 1946, but Australia day on the 26th Jan has a very long and rich history and i doubt changing it back to a floating holiday around the 26th would keep the haters happy.
It has been recognised as Australia day on the 26th Jan in all states since 1935 and celebrated in all states since 1946.
However its history goes back much further and the day was recognised by all states under other names except SA since 1888
In NSW even if it was know under different names, this history dates back even further to 1818
And in 1838 it became the fist public holiday in Australia at that stage in NSW only.
Yes the date has also been celebrated at various times on different dates, mostly during the war years but these were rare exceptions 1915 to 1919 period and most states way back had various nationalistic days but this is the date that has been adopted with the longest history.
BTW. there is also also a number of important aspect around the date that only reinforce its importance like
The Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 came into effect on 26 January 1949, creating Australian citizenship for the first time.
26 January 1824: The first mixed-race marriage happened, ironically it was between an Aboriginal women and a convict man and it was a long lasting marriage with 5 children.
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28