All Things Religion Thread
southernraw wrote:Jelly Flater wrote:^ trashy everything is a figment of imagination in the post u quoted of goebbels noinfo the nazi bluffer (and yeah that's another pile of nothing contribution on your behalf)
Sick puppies make shit up ;)
- they also can't back up the shit they make up or assume ;);)...stinkholes chime in supporting sick puppies
- and also enact selective outrage about someone posting stuff with swearing etc... and ignore things of real sickness- and actually don't call out the real sick puppy shit , and even defend the perpetrators of stuff like this below...
Sick sick puppies.
Facts ;)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlqLdWdE8vE&pp=ygUIaWRmIHJhcGU%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE9efC7Q6W4&pp=ygUIaWRmIHJhcGU%3D
This.
Nailed it as always JF.
But but but the IDF is the most moral army in the world,and Israel has a right to defend itself....
Fark..
indo-dreaming wrote:Ha ha "decolinse Palestine" is a comple oxymoron.
The Roman empire invaded the Kingdom of Israel & Judea murdered many Jews and sent many to flee, they even changed the name as colonisers do to Palestine to break the thousand's of Jews that stayed..
That was 100% true colonisation, empire from elsewhere takes over, changes language, culture, religion oppresses the original people, even destroys the second temple on temple mount
The Roman empire fell, the Turkish Otoman empire took over control, again true colonisation, empire from elsewhere again bringing in a new language Arabic and religion Islam and destroying culture, even building a mosque on top of the Jews most scared site the temple mount.
The same empire colonized much of the middle east Arab/Islamic colorization like European/Christian colilinisation
Decolonization of Palestine would be to put the oldest ethnic group alive in power which is the Jewish people, and return to an indigenous language like Hebrew and return to the religion that was born on the land like Christianity or Judaism
And guess what it happened, its decolonization.
@ Soggy dog
You claimed this history is not true, but you still havent pointed out what bit?
You are just trying to distract trying to bring in Aboriginal matters etc.
And you are clearly willing to wear:
Jew hater, Jihadist supporter, terrorist supporter, Hamas supporter, and ironically a supporter of a government that doesn't believe in democracy follows a extreme version of islamic conservatism.
indo-dreaming wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Ha ha "decolinse Palestine" is a comple oxymoron.
The Roman empire invaded the Kingdom of Israel & Judea murdered many Jews and sent many to flee, they even changed the name as colonisers do to Palestine to break the thousand's of Jews that stayed..
That was 100% true colonisation, empire from elsewhere takes over, changes language, culture, religion oppresses the original people, even destroys the second temple on temple mount
The Roman empire fell, the Turkish Otoman empire took over control, again true colonisation, empire from elsewhere again bringing in a new language Arabic and religion Islam and destroying culture, even building a mosque on top of the Jews most scared site the temple mount.
The same empire colonized much of the middle east Arab/Islamic colorization like European/Christian colilinisation
Decolonization of Palestine would be to put the oldest ethnic group alive in power which is the Jewish people, and return to an indigenous language like Hebrew and return to the religion that was born on the land like Christianity or Judaism
And guess what it happened, its decolonization.
@ Soggy dog
You claimed this history is not true, but you still havent pointed out what bit?
You are just trying to distract trying to bring in Aboriginal matters etc.
And you are clearly willing to wear:
Jew hater, Jihadist supporter, terrorist supporter, Hamas supporter, and ironically a supporter of a government that doesn't believe in democracy follows a extreme version of islamic conservatism.
At what point does the above comment cross the line?
I’ve never denied the history, but if you are going to apply that logic to one situation then why not all. Prior to European colonisation Jews did co-exist as part of a local population. What about that part?
You can add Cherry Picker to your list.
southernraw wrote:Jelly Flater wrote:^ trashy everything is a figment of imagination in the post u quoted of goebbels noinfo the nazi bluffer (and yeah that's another pile of nothing contribution on your behalf)
Sick puppies make shit up ;)
- they also can't back up the shit they make up or assume ;);)...stinkholes chime in supporting sick puppies
- and also enact selective outrage about someone posting stuff with swearing etc... and ignore things of real sickness- and actually don't call out the real sick puppy shit , and even defend the perpetrators of stuff like this below...
Sick sick puppies.
Facts ;)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlqLdWdE8vE&pp=ygUIaWRmIHJhcGU%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE9efC7Q6W4&pp=ygUIaWRmIHJhcGU%3D
This.
Nailed it as always JF.
Southern brown nosing as usual
ashsam wrote:southernraw wrote:Jelly Flater wrote:^ trashy everything is a figment of imagination in the post u quoted of goebbels noinfo the nazi bluffer (and yeah that's another pile of nothing contribution on your behalf)
Sick puppies make shit up ;)
- they also can't back up the shit they make up or assume ;);)...stinkholes chime in supporting sick puppies
- and also enact selective outrage about someone posting stuff with swearing etc... and ignore things of real sickness- and actually don't call out the real sick puppy shit , and even defend the perpetrators of stuff like this below...
Sick sick puppies.
Facts ;)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlqLdWdE8vE&pp=ygUIaWRmIHJhcGU%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE9efC7Q6W4&pp=ygUIaWRmIHJhcGU%3D
This.
Nailed it as always JF.Southern brown nosing as usual
ha!
^ haha and once again, the trash chimes in...with nothing
- nothin but another merry go round of glass house rock throwing ;)
...whilst trashy goes brown nosing balls deep up bluffer noinfos arse and then proceeds to lick nazi choccy drops from off the dick on his own face, the trashcan stinkhole still has time to ummmm :
"accuse the other side of that which you are guilty" haha
- carry on ;);)
https://m.
&pp=ygUJZGljayBub3Nl - hear ye hear ye, for thou voice spoketh of thine lawd and said forth :
"...if the flying spaghetti monster didn't exist, then where do we get our morals from?... we might as well go around raping and killing each other."
- ramen ;);)
CARN THE PIES!!!!
seeds wrote:CARN THE PIES!!!!
Ewww.
CARN THE PIES. Fuck those pussy Swans with their ‘ I need a shit ‘ strut.
I bet GuySmiley is glued to his seat watching this. AW
Sprout wrote:seeds wrote:CARN THE PIES!!!!
Ewww.
Nah Lions need Swannies to lose.
AlfredWallace wrote:CARN THE PIES. Fuck those pussy Swans with their ‘ I need a shit ‘ strut.
I bet GuySmiley is glued to his seat watching this. AW
Haha strut away down the ladder Swans
- seeds, zoolatry is accepted as a religion ;)
...you shall here by be spared of excommunication from further self imposed imagined religious persecution, go forth and spread thou word as it is the only one true religion of ermmm dedicated faithful believers of an un impregnated higher animal non human non animal divine being (animal angels) for whom this world beckons into creation - and with the hark of a distant baby magpie squeal that trumpeteth upon our union as one as we together seek thine early bird worm and seeketh out thine elevator wormhole sci fi tractor beam interplanetary papal magpie mission toward everlasting yet only one year lasting premiership eternal gloryhole ;);)
...or you can skip the fine print (fairytale storytime) and just ummm :
https://m.
&pp=ygUKbWFncGlyIG1hbg%3D%3D ;)
https://m.
Hope you still watching AW.
Last quarter collywobbles
You could feel sorry for them, but nah. Good to see them lose by less than a kick.
Trust bloody Collingwood to break the Swans losing streak.
what's cool about the modern Christian message, is that it encourages people to live outside of society, and put Him first, before friends, relatives, town, politics, comrades, work colleagues, shopkeepers, doctors or policemen.
it's excellent, how they know what they are about.
@ JF putting zoolatrism (yes I googled it) aside that was a great last quarter.
I’m more a pistoriophile!! (yes I googled that also)
- with a swannies 's' haha
basesix wrote:what's cool about the modern Christian message, is that it encourages people to live outside of society, and put Him first, before friends, relatives, town, politics, comrades, work colleagues, shopkeepers, doctors or policemen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwmZAxRNVVk
it's excellent, how they know what they are about.
If this carrot cake was walking down the street stroking a big pink Barbie car talking to the sky you’d call him a tweeker nutter. I did. Swap the car for a pulpit and put a roof overhead and he’s God’s messenger.
Jelly Flater wrote:- with a swannies 's' haha
Damn those Swannies’ S’ss and damn those Pies.
AlfredWallace wrote:CARN THE PIES. Fuck those pussy Swans with their ‘ I need a shit ‘ strut.
I bet GuySmiley is glued to his seat watching this. AW
Sorry just caught the news walking a section of the cape 2 cape …swans by 3; after the siren goal hopefully, you farken beauty
Awesome Guy!
Is this in WA? How long is this section and are you doing them all?
Yes seeds, just over 15km yesterday to Yallingup, back in Perth with family now fly home early next week
UP the Swans ;)
GuySmiley wrote:Yes seeds, just over 15km yesterday to Yallingup, back in Perth with family now fly home early next week
Such an epic coastline!
soggydog wrote:I’ve never denied the history, but if you are going to apply that logic to one situation then why not all. Prior to European colonisation Jews did co-exist as part of a local population. What about that part?
You can add Cherry Picker to your list.
When the Otoman empire fell and British took control, i guess you could technically call it colonizations as a foreign empire took control, but there was no intent for the British to settle the area with its own people it was more a minding of sorts.
The intention was to create a mandate to divide up the land and thats what happened the Arabs* got the newly created 1946 Jordan(much larger than Israel/.Palestine) and the Jews were suppose to get what was known as Palestine which was most of their traditional homeland (although some of Jordan contains ancient Israel)
That was basically the first two state solution, but it didnt happen, i guess because the Arabs had already claimed a religious connection to religious Judaism sites,(like the temple mount and cave of the patriarchs) because thats how Islam works it was created off the basic beliefs/roots of Judaism for perspective Islam was created about 1,500 years after Judaism was created. (no idea how they think they know what happened in the times of Abraham etc)
The land then got divided up even further into the utterly ridiculous 1948 partition plan, the Jews still agreed to it and the Arabs did not, attacked Israel from all borders and within and lost, and ended up with far less land (Karma)
* We will use the term Arabs because Palestinians as an ethnic group hadn't been created yet, all people that lived Palestine at the time called themselves Palestinians, Jews, christians, Druze, Arabs/Muslims in exactly the same way no matter our ethinc background or religion we call ourselves Australian.
As you can see the original plan was the Jews got all of Palestine and Jordan much of the area not part of traditional Israel/Judea.
Then a much more sensible Aarbs get Jordan, Jews get Palestine.
And here is a real perspective on the effects of Arab/Islamic colilnisation, dont forget it wasnt just Jews who had their culture destroyed, countless langagues were lost and replaced by arabic, religions and beliefs lost and cultures destroyed.
Yet you claim the Arabs are victims?
In regard to Jews co existing prior to 1948
IIts fair to assume that you have listened to Norman finkerlfucker garbage about how everything was peace and love before 1948
Well that is complete garbage the Jews were a minority in their own land, i mean seriously they had their most sacred site the temple mount taken over a shitty mosque built on it.
Other Jewish temple sites also had mosque built on them, there is many recorded Polgroms (basically mascares of Jewish people or other acts of violence)
Here is the better known ones before 1948
1517 HEBRON & SAFED POGROMS
1660 SAFED & TIBERIAS POGROMS
1834 HEBRON & SAFED
1838 SAFED
1920 NEBI MUSA RIOTS
1929 HEBRON & SAFED MASSACRES
1936 JAFFA RIOTS
1938 TIBERIAS POGROM
These ramped up when Jews began returning in larger numbers than before that happened long before 1948 especially in the late 1800's
Because Jews began buying back land
"In the 1880s, Jews, predominantly Ashkenazi,[2][3] began purchasing land and properties across Ottoman Palestine in order to expand the collective territorial ownership of the Yishuv. Large Jewish corporations and private Jewish buyers " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
Other than that Jews had a number of taxes put on them for not being muslim, the aim of these taxes was to force the to convert to Islam, and sadly it worked many converted to make life easier and this can explain where Arabs in the region got much of their Canaanite DNA from. (remember these Jews at the time had 100% Canaanite DNA)
"The Jizya was a discriminatory tax imposed only on non-muslims until the late 1800s. Non-muslims had to either convert to Islam or abandon their lands to avoid it. If they did not pay they were imprisoned, tortured and slaved.
Muslim rulers instituted the jizya to reduce the number of Jews living in the Holy Land, in what was then called Palestine (the Roman term for the area, with no connection to the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians today) before the British Mandate was instituted in 1922.
Until the late 1800s entire ancient Jewish communities had to flee Palestine to escape the brutality of Muslim authorities.
As Egyptian historian Bat Ye’or writes in her book, The Dhimmi: “The Jizya was paid in a humiliating public ceremony in which the non-Muslim while paying was struck in the head. If these taxes were not paid women and children were reduced to slavery, men were imprisoned and tortured until a ransom was paid for them."
"The Jewish communities in many cities under Muslim Rule were ruined by such demands. This custom of legalized financial abuses and extortion shattered the indigenous pre-Arab populations almost totally eliminating what remained of its peasantry…
"In 1849 the Jews of Tiberias envisaged exile because of the brutality, exactions, and injustice of the Muslim authorities. In addition to ordinary taxes, an Arab Sheik that ruled Hevron demanded that Jews pay an extra five thousand piastres annually for the protections of their lives and property. The Sheik threatened to attack and expel them from Hevron if it was not paid.”
Lyn Julius commented about the incontrovertible findings in George Bensoussan’ book Juifs en pays arabes: le grand deracinement 1850 – 1975:
“…Bensoussan, threatens to stand the notion of ”Jewish colonialism” on its head: it is the Jews who lived under Muslim rule who were the true victims of colonialism…
"By the time the Arab conquerors had swept over the Middle East and North Africa, the Jews had been living in the region for 1,000 years…
"Under Islam, according to the eighth-century Pact of Omar, indigenous Jews and Christians were permitted to practise as long as they acquiesced to the dhimmi condition of inferiority and institutionalised humiliation…
“… Bensoussan observes that the Islamic order was built on a ”colonial” notion – submission. The Muslim submits to Allah, the Muslim woman submits to her husband, the non-Muslim dhimmi submits to the Muslim. At the very bottom of the pile is the slave…
"He produces incontrovertible evidence that, 100 years before Israel was established, most Jews in Arab and Muslim lands lived in misery and fear….
"Jews were regularly mobbed, robbed, their possessions looted, beaten up on the slightest pretext, or false charge brought by a jealous neighbour. Jews were feminised in the Muslim imagination – cowardly, submissive, unable to stand up for themselves.
“…Bensoussan”s great achievement is not just to blow out of the water the myth of Arab-Jewish coexistence predating the creation of Israel, but unfashionably to place the colonial boot on the Arab foot…
"A sovereign Jewish state in the land of Israel begins to look like the liberation of a colonized, indigenous people from 14 centuries of subjugation…”
he Muslim conquest
Simon Sebag Montefiore describes, in his book Jerusalem, the Arab Conquest of the Eastern Roman Empire (Chapter 16, page 166) that Arabs built the Al Aqsa Mosque in Temple Mount to make Muslims the legitimate heirs of Jewish sanctity: “In 518, aged thirty-five, Justinian found himself the real ruler of the Eastern empire when his uncle Justin was raised to the throne…
"Justinian demoted Judaism from a permited religion and banned Passover if it fell before Easter, converted synagogues into churches, forcibly baptized Jews, and commandeered Jewish History: in 537, when Justinian dedicated his breathtaking Church of Hagia Sophia (Holy Wisdom” in Constantinople, he is said to have reflected 'Solomon, I have surpassed thee.'
"Then he turned to Jerusalem to trump Solomon’s Temple. In 543 Justinian and Theodora started to build a basilica, the Nea Church of St.Mary Mother of God, almost 400 feet long and 187 feet high, with walls 16 feet thick, facing away from the Temple Mount and designed to overpower Solomon’s site…
"The Holy City was ruled by the rituals of Orthodox Christianity… The city was set up to host thousands of pilgrims: the grandees stayed with the patriarch; the poor pilgrims in the dormitories of Justinian’s hospices which had beds for 3,000; and ascetics in caves, often old Jewish tombs, in the surrounding hills…
" …Heraclitus dispatched an army to stop the Arabs…After months of skirmishing, the Arabs finally lured the Byzantines to battle amidst the impenetrable gorges of the Yarmuk river between today’s Jordan, Syria and Israeli Golan…and on August 636…
"Khalid cut of their retreat and by the end of the battle, the Christians were so exhausted that the Arabs found them lying down in their cloaks, ripe for the slaughter. Even the emperor’s brother was killed and Heraclitus himself never recovered from this defeat, one of the decisive battles in history, that lost Syria and Palestine. Byzantine rule, weakened by the Persian war, seems to have collapsed like a house of cards…
"The Arabs converged on the city which they called Ilya (Aelia Capitolina, the Roman name (for Jerusalem))… Omar offered Jerusalem a Covenant – dhimma- of Surrender that promised religious tolerance to the Christians in return for payment of jizya tax of submission. Once this was agreed, Omar set out for Jerusalem…"…Heraclitus seized power (of the Bizantine Empire) in 610…Constantinople was besieged by the Persians ( then Zoroastrians)…(Heraclitus) outmanoeuvred the Persian forces …then defeated their main army…
"… In 632 Muhammad, aged about sixty-two, died (in Saudi Arabia) and was succeeded by his father in law, Abu Bakr…
"Abu Bakr managed to pacify Arabia. Then he turned to the Bizantine and Persian empires, which Muslims regarded as evanescent, sinful and corrupt. The Commander dispatched contingent of warriors on camels to raid Iraq and Palestine…in Mecca, Abu Bakr died and was succeeded by Omar…
"Omar knew that Muhammad had revered David and Solomon. 'Take me to the sanctuary of David,' he ordered Sophronius (Jerusalem’s Christian Patriarch). He and his warriors entered Temple Mount, probably through the Prophet’s Gate in the south, and found it contaminated by 'a dungheap which the Christians had put there to offend the Jews.
"Omar asked to be shown the Holy of Holies. A Jewish convert, Kaab al Ahbar, known as the Rabbi, replied that if the Commander preserved 'the wall'(perhaps referring to the last Herodian remains, including the Western Wall), 'I will reveal to him where are the ruins of the Temple.'
"Kaab showed Omar the foundation stone of the Temple, the rock which the Arabs called the Sakhra.Aided by his troops, Omar began to clear the debris to create somewhere to pray.
"Kaab sugested he place this north of the foundation stone 'so you will face make two qiblas, that of Moses and that of Muhammad.'
“'You still lean towards the Jews,' Omar supposedly told Kaab, placing his first prayer house south of the rock, roughly where the al-Aqsa Mosque stands today, so that it clearly faced Mecca.
"Omar had followed Muhammad’s wish to reach past Christianity to restore and co-opt this place of ancient holiness, to make Muslims the legitimate heirs of Jewish sanctity and outflank the Christians.” (Simon Sebag Montefiore “Jerusalem” page 166-184)
Muslim Replacement theology
The roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict are theological, Muslims claim they have a stronger claim to Jewish Holy Sites than the Jews and use this as a justification to build their mosques there.
On March 25, 2019 Arutz 7 reported "Iran Broadcasting Authority (IRIB) head Abdolali Ali-Asgari, talking about superiority and great nations, said that while in ancient times G-d had given the Jewish People superiority, the Iranian people - the countrymen of the Prophet Muhammad's companion Salman the Persian - were chosen to "shoulder the heavy burden of truth and progress in the world" after the Jews "pursued worldly ornaments and behaved unjustly."
Ishrat Hussain Muhammad wrote in Quora “… Moses & Prophet Abraham PBUH were Muslims...The Islamic belief is that all the prophets including the last prophet Mohammad PBUH were following the will of the God and all prophets were teaching same thing and from same God, therefore Islam considers all prophets to be Muslims…” According to Islam Jewish Prophets like Abraham, Moses and David were actually Muslim and Jewish Holy Sites are actually Islamic Holy Sites.
According to Islamic replacement theology Islam replaced Judaism and Muslims replaced the Jews as the inheritors of Jewish Holy sites. Based on this view, Muslims justify Islamic colonialism, the occupation of Jewish Holy Sites and deny the connection of modern Jews to Jewish Holy Sites and to the land of Israel.
Abuse of Freedom of religion
Israel allows Muslims to pray in Al Aqsa but Jews were not allowed to pray in Hevron's Cave of the Patriarchs (Judaism's second holiest site)or in Jerusalem's Western Wall during the Jordanian Occupation (1948-1967).
Today Jews are not allowed to pray in any Jewish holy sites under Islamic rule and are humiliated if they try.
Former Jordanian tourism minister Maha al-Khatib said, "There is a Zionist scheme to claim ownership of any part of our Arab homeland, especially in archaeological sites."
On July 26, 2019 Elder of Zion reported "Palestine Today has an article about Joseph's Tomb in Schechem (Nablus) and how the semi-regular Jewish pilgrims that visit the site have "turned it into a place that spreads death and blackness to the villagers" who live nearby.
Jews cannot visit without an army escort because otherwise they'd be lynched.
The article goes through a history of the site, saying that Palestinians are divided between believing that it is the tomb of the Biblical Joseph or of an Arab named Yusuf Dweikat.
It quotes a researcher of archeology from An-Najah National University named Louai Abu al-Saud. Al Saud. Abu Al-Saud did not deny or confirm that the 'Prophet Joseph' is buried in this grave, but he said that in case that is proven - from an archeological point of view - that this grave is the grave of Joseph, 'then we Palestinians, as Arabs and Muslims, are worthier of ownership of it than the Jews.'
Palestinianism is now a replacement theology for Judaism. But Jews face Temple Mount when they pray, Arabs face Mecca even when in or around Temple Mount. Despite being the holiest site of Judaism, Jews are not allowed to pray on the Temple Mount.
On February 27, 2019 Elder of Zion reported "Arab and Muslim media, especially Palestinian Arab media, routinely deny that there were ever any Jewish Temples on the Temple Mount."
Howver, this academic paper by Milka Levy-Rubin about why the Dome of the Rock was built to begin with gives copious amounts of proof that show that the Muslims who built the Dome chose the site precisely because of its association with the two Temples.
The main point of the paper, published by the Bulletin of SOAS at the University of London in 2017, is that the Dome of the Rock was meant to be a rebuilding of the Temple of Solomon which would fulfill the need by Muslims to have their own significant holy place in their conquered lands that could compete with the Hagia Sophia church in Constantinople which claimed to have surpassed the beauty of Solomon’s temple.
The image linked below from the Ottoman Imperial Archives says that the Al Aqsa Mosque was built on the site of Solomon’s Temple.
Since the creation of the State of Israel Jews can defend themselves against Islamic persecution. Other minorities like the decimated Yazidi continue to be vulnerable to persecution by Islamic forces today because they don't have their own State to protect them.
For centuries Jews endured humiliation and abuse under Islamic rule, for centuries Jews were denied the freedom to pray in most of Judaism's holiest Sites converted into mosques, for centuries Jews were subject to institutionalized financial abuse in the name of Jizya, it is time to demand compensation."
^ "For centuries Aboriginals endured humiliation and abuse under English rule, for centuries Aboriginals were denied the freedom to live Traditional lives, Country converted to vast tracts of fenced grazing land, for centuries Aboriginals were subject to institutionalized financial/racial/child/sexual/moral abuse in the name of a distant Monarchy, it is time to demand compensation."
- oldest living culture on the planet, their timeless dignity will long outlast any two-bit bullshit we think is important. (Maybe Aboriginal people should register Dreaming as a religion, seems people value religious persecution quite highly. Or maybe not, if it's not Abrahamic.. oh, hang on, even that doesn't matter.. ummm.. scratch that.. it's ALL nonsense, ok, I get it now..)
GuySmiley wrote:AlfredWallace wrote:CARN THE PIES. Fuck those pussy Swans with their ‘ I need a shit ‘ strut.
I bet GuySmiley is glued to his seat watching this. AW
Sorry just caught the news walking a section of the cape 2 cape …swans by 3; after the siren goal hopefully, you farken beauty
Nah Guy, not after the siren, hit the front with about 3 to go. Heaney, he of the strut, kicked it. Great last quarter. That walk sounds great, another for my list.
@indo” Norman finkerlfucker”.
So you’re a Jew hater? He’s a Jew. Holocaust survivor, probably got a bit better handle on the history than yourself. Yet you hate him because he won’t use tenuous history to justify mass killings like your self. Shove your long winded history lesson up your arse. Jew hater. Which also makes you anti semetic. I suppose you hate Gabor Mate too.
hey base 6
The polls before the Voice , show Australia are prepared to Give compensation to our FNP , for the pain caused by the Invasion , of another culture .
All Cultures , eventually , blend with other cultures .
I don't think Traditional Dreaming Nomadic , will be a religion .
It's a time , we can ALL only now Dream about and Learn from .
basesix wrote:^ "For centuries Aboriginals endured humiliation and abuse under English rule, for centuries Aboriginals were denied the freedom to live Traditional lives, Country converted to vast tracts of fenced grazing land, for centuries Aboriginals were subject to institutionalized financial/racial/child/sexual/moral abuse in the name of a distant Monarchy, it is time to demand compensation."
- oldest living culture on the planet, their timeless dignity will long outlast any two-bit bullshit we think is important. (Maybe Aboriginal people should register Dreaming as a religion, seems people value religious persecution quite highly. Or maybe not, if it's not Abrahamic.. oh, hang on, even that doesn't matter.. ummm.. scratch that.. it's ALL nonsense, ok, I get it now..)
In all honesty my interest in Israel/Jews has made me revaluate and id say mellow some of my views on indigenous Australian matters like right to land, connection to land, importance of preservation of culture and language. (Hebrew was lost as a spoken language and reborn through one man)
But in particular in regard to identity as i see exactly the same thing happening to Jewish people that happens to Aboriginal Australians and even how myself I have judged people who identify as Aboriginal in the past based on looks or percentage of DNA
Jewish people are constantly judged on not being brown enough or judgements about what percentage of DNA they might possess or even where they were born.
Where just like Aboriginal such as the stole generation, Jewish peoples situation was beyond their control they were victims of Roman and Arab colonisation and ended up outside of Israel because they fled to save their lifes or avoid persecution.
Is a person of Jewish ethnicity any less Jewish based on percentage of Canaanite DNA or colour of skin, or location they were born?
soggydog wrote:@indo” Norman finkerlfucker”.
So you’re a Jew hater? He’s a Jew. Holocaust survivor, probably got a bit better handle on the history than yourself. Yet you hate him because he won’t use tenuous history to justify mass killings like your self. Shove your long winded history lesson up your arse. Jew hater. Which also makes you anti semetic. I suppose you hate Gabor Mate too.
Ive listened to him a number of times, he always has the same script, and much of it is false as i have shown with his narrative that before 1948 it was all peace and love.
And yes you dont want to know the history, because if you did, you would have to revaluate your views.
I mean fuck imagine if you actually went and learnt about the deep rich history of Judea & Samaria (the West Bank) imagine how challenging it would be to still hold the views you do
Its basically ground zero of Jewish history and identity its quite literally where they got their name from an area they have lived for thousands of years, there is said to be over 3,000 Jewish antiquity sites alone, some dating back thousands of year and long before Arab or Islamic presence.
https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/benjamin_netanyahu_...
This is the guy you’ve hitched your wagon to Indo. A genocidal war criminal. And it seems you will go to extreme lengths to defend the mass killings.
What of Gabor Mate, much more moderate than Finkelstien. Once a Zionist, same message. Both Jews. Do you hate them because they denounce Israel.
Hey fuckhead, anyone can convert to Judaism and the Israeli government will facilitate the theft of land from a Palestinian family that’s lived there for a long time( like your mate Avi and his thug mate). You can’t just convert to being Aboriginal. You either are or you aren’t. You have a family link or you don’t.
soggydog wrote:https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/benjamin_netanyahu_...
This is the guy you’ve hitched your wagon to Indo. A genocidal war criminal. And it seems you will go to extreme lengths to defend the mass killings.
What of Gabor Mate, much more moderate than Finkelstien. Once a Zionist, same message. Both Jews. Do you hate them because they denounce Israel.
Firstly its you who said i hate them, like 99% of Jews i think they are dangerous and spread blantant misinformation and hate.
As for Bibi i dont care less about him and you are delusional if you think any other Israeli leader left or right would handle things much differently.
Anyway you are willfully ignorant about the history and even more ignorant about understanding warfare especially urban warfare.
Its not even worth disgusting this aspect with you, i mean seriously even delusional radicalized Arab muslims aren't going to try to compare an underground bunker under a Israeli military facility to hundreds of miles of terror tunnels built under civilian areas and try to claim they are the same.
Its just pure and utter delusion, that NOBODY can take seriously.
And if it makes it easier for you to understand Jewish identity and ethnicity, you can call them Israelite's if you must as thats what they also are decedents of Israelites
Is this an Indo factoid or an actual stat.
“ 99% of Jews i think they are dangerous”
How?
You like war and you like it when “other people” you see as lesser get killed. You’ve stated here that it has to happen fast and you back yourself with military research. I’d assume most of the military experts you listen to would be from the US.
Can you name one post WWII military conflict where the US experts have successfully executed a military occupation that hasn’t lead to mass civilian death and ongoing chaos…….,.,,,.,,me neither. Maybe they know how to execute lots of people but executing a successful war, not really experts.
soggydog wrote:Is this an Indo factoid or an actual stat.
“ 99% of Jews i think they are dangerous”How?
You like war and you like it when “other people” you see as lesser get killed. You’ve stated here that it has to happen fast and you back yourself with military research. I’d assume most of the military experts you listen to would be from the US.
Can you name one post WWII military conflict where the US experts have successfully executed a military occupation that hasn’t lead to mass civilian death and ongoing chaos…….,.,,,.,,me neither. Maybe they know how to execute lots of people but executing a successful war, not really experts.
Huh your basically arguing for me, yes wars today result in civilian deaths, 100% correct because the traditional battle field line up is rarely a thing anymore.
And no not just wars that involve USA all wars today especially urban wars result in civilian deaths
Most countries/governments avoid starting wars because they care about their people, but Hamas dont care about their people, they only care about extreme islamic ideology and killing Jews hence why start wars they know they can never win and only bring death and misery to themselves.
@Indo, it's great that you have taken the time to educate yourself about history, I commend you for that.
Now, take the time to educate yourself about law. International Law.
The right to self determination, human rights, the Geneva Conventions, the Genocide Conventions, the Statute of Rome, the rulings of the World Court in relation to Israel, the Laws of Armed Conflict, and so on.
Studying history in the ME has mellowed your views on FNP apparently.
Study some law.
indo-dreaming wrote:In regard to Jews co existing prior to 1948
IIts fair to assume that you have listened to Norman finkerlfucker garbage about how everything was peace and love before 1948
Well that is complete garbage the Jews were a minority in their own land, i mean seriously they had their most sacred site the temple mount taken over a shitty mosque built on it.
Other Jewish temple sites also had mosque built on them, there is many recorded Polgroms (basically mascares of Jewish people or other acts of violence)
Here is the better known ones before 1948
1517 HEBRON & SAFED POGROMS
1660 SAFED & TIBERIAS POGROMS
1834 HEBRON & SAFED
1838 SAFED
1920 NEBI MUSA RIOTS
1929 HEBRON & SAFED MASSACRES
1936 JAFFA RIOTS
1938 TIBERIAS POGROMThese ramped up when Jews began returning in larger numbers than before that happened long before 1948 especially in the late 1800's
Because Jews began buying back land
"In the 1880s, Jews, predominantly Ashkenazi,[2][3] began purchasing land and properties across Ottoman Palestine in order to expand the collective territorial ownership of the Yishuv. Large Jewish corporations and private Jewish buyers " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
Other than that Jews had a number of taxes put on them for not being muslim, the aim of these taxes was to force the to convert to Islam, and sadly it worked many converted to make life easier and this can explain where Arabs in the region got much of their Canaanite DNA from. (remember these Jews at the time had 100% Canaanite DNA)
"The Jizya was a discriminatory tax imposed only on non-muslims until the late 1800s. Non-muslims had to either convert to Islam or abandon their lands to avoid it. If they did not pay they were imprisoned, tortured and slaved.
Muslim rulers instituted the jizya to reduce the number of Jews living in the Holy Land, in what was then called Palestine (the Roman term for the area, with no connection to the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians today) before the British Mandate was instituted in 1922.
Until the late 1800s entire ancient Jewish communities had to flee Palestine to escape the brutality of Muslim authorities.
As Egyptian historian Bat Ye’or writes in her book, The Dhimmi: “The Jizya was paid in a humiliating public ceremony in which the non-Muslim while paying was struck in the head. If these taxes were not paid women and children were reduced to slavery, men were imprisoned and tortured until a ransom was paid for them."
"The Jewish communities in many cities under Muslim Rule were ruined by such demands. This custom of legalized financial abuses and extortion shattered the indigenous pre-Arab populations almost totally eliminating what remained of its peasantry…
"In 1849 the Jews of Tiberias envisaged exile because of the brutality, exactions, and injustice of the Muslim authorities. In addition to ordinary taxes, an Arab Sheik that ruled Hevron demanded that Jews pay an extra five thousand piastres annually for the protections of their lives and property. The Sheik threatened to attack and expel them from Hevron if it was not paid.”
Lyn Julius commented about the incontrovertible findings in George Bensoussan’ book Juifs en pays arabes: le grand deracinement 1850 – 1975:
“…Bensoussan, threatens to stand the notion of ”Jewish colonialism” on its head: it is the Jews who lived under Muslim rule who were the true victims of colonialism…
"By the time the Arab conquerors had swept over the Middle East and North Africa, the Jews had been living in the region for 1,000 years…
"Under Islam, according to the eighth-century Pact of Omar, indigenous Jews and Christians were permitted to practise as long as they acquiesced to the dhimmi condition of inferiority and institutionalised humiliation…
“… Bensoussan observes that the Islamic order was built on a ”colonial” notion – submission. The Muslim submits to Allah, the Muslim woman submits to her husband, the non-Muslim dhimmi submits to the Muslim. At the very bottom of the pile is the slave…
"He produces incontrovertible evidence that, 100 years before Israel was established, most Jews in Arab and Muslim lands lived in misery and fear….
"Jews were regularly mobbed, robbed, their possessions looted, beaten up on the slightest pretext, or false charge brought by a jealous neighbour. Jews were feminised in the Muslim imagination – cowardly, submissive, unable to stand up for themselves.
“…Bensoussan”s great achievement is not just to blow out of the water the myth of Arab-Jewish coexistence predating the creation of Israel, but unfashionably to place the colonial boot on the Arab foot…
"A sovereign Jewish state in the land of Israel begins to look like the liberation of a colonized, indigenous people from 14 centuries of subjugation…”
he Muslim conquestSimon Sebag Montefiore describes, in his book Jerusalem, the Arab Conquest of the Eastern Roman Empire (Chapter 16, page 166) that Arabs built the Al Aqsa Mosque in Temple Mount to make Muslims the legitimate heirs of Jewish sanctity: “In 518, aged thirty-five, Justinian found himself the real ruler of the Eastern empire when his uncle Justin was raised to the throne…
"Justinian demoted Judaism from a permited religion and banned Passover if it fell before Easter, converted synagogues into churches, forcibly baptized Jews, and commandeered Jewish History: in 537, when Justinian dedicated his breathtaking Church of Hagia Sophia (Holy Wisdom” in Constantinople, he is said to have reflected 'Solomon, I have surpassed thee.'
"Then he turned to Jerusalem to trump Solomon’s Temple. In 543 Justinian and Theodora started to build a basilica, the Nea Church of St.Mary Mother of God, almost 400 feet long and 187 feet high, with walls 16 feet thick, facing away from the Temple Mount and designed to overpower Solomon’s site…
"The Holy City was ruled by the rituals of Orthodox Christianity… The city was set up to host thousands of pilgrims: the grandees stayed with the patriarch; the poor pilgrims in the dormitories of Justinian’s hospices which had beds for 3,000; and ascetics in caves, often old Jewish tombs, in the surrounding hills…
" …Heraclitus dispatched an army to stop the Arabs…After months of skirmishing, the Arabs finally lured the Byzantines to battle amidst the impenetrable gorges of the Yarmuk river between today’s Jordan, Syria and Israeli Golan…and on August 636…
"Khalid cut of their retreat and by the end of the battle, the Christians were so exhausted that the Arabs found them lying down in their cloaks, ripe for the slaughter. Even the emperor’s brother was killed and Heraclitus himself never recovered from this defeat, one of the decisive battles in history, that lost Syria and Palestine. Byzantine rule, weakened by the Persian war, seems to have collapsed like a house of cards…
"The Arabs converged on the city which they called Ilya (Aelia Capitolina, the Roman name (for Jerusalem))… Omar offered Jerusalem a Covenant – dhimma- of Surrender that promised religious tolerance to the Christians in return for payment of jizya tax of submission. Once this was agreed, Omar set out for Jerusalem…"…Heraclitus seized power (of the Bizantine Empire) in 610…Constantinople was besieged by the Persians ( then Zoroastrians)…(Heraclitus) outmanoeuvred the Persian forces …then defeated their main army…
"… In 632 Muhammad, aged about sixty-two, died (in Saudi Arabia) and was succeeded by his father in law, Abu Bakr…
"Abu Bakr managed to pacify Arabia. Then he turned to the Bizantine and Persian empires, which Muslims regarded as evanescent, sinful and corrupt. The Commander dispatched contingent of warriors on camels to raid Iraq and Palestine…in Mecca, Abu Bakr died and was succeeded by Omar…
"Omar knew that Muhammad had revered David and Solomon. 'Take me to the sanctuary of David,' he ordered Sophronius (Jerusalem’s Christian Patriarch). He and his warriors entered Temple Mount, probably through the Prophet’s Gate in the south, and found it contaminated by 'a dungheap which the Christians had put there to offend the Jews.
"Omar asked to be shown the Holy of Holies. A Jewish convert, Kaab al Ahbar, known as the Rabbi, replied that if the Commander preserved 'the wall'(perhaps referring to the last Herodian remains, including the Western Wall), 'I will reveal to him where are the ruins of the Temple.'
"Kaab showed Omar the foundation stone of the Temple, the rock which the Arabs called the Sakhra.Aided by his troops, Omar began to clear the debris to create somewhere to pray.
"Kaab sugested he place this north of the foundation stone 'so you will face make two qiblas, that of Moses and that of Muhammad.'
“'You still lean towards the Jews,' Omar supposedly told Kaab, placing his first prayer house south of the rock, roughly where the al-Aqsa Mosque stands today, so that it clearly faced Mecca.
"Omar had followed Muhammad’s wish to reach past Christianity to restore and co-opt this place of ancient holiness, to make Muslims the legitimate heirs of Jewish sanctity and outflank the Christians.” (Simon Sebag Montefiore “Jerusalem” page 166-184)
Muslim Replacement theology
The roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict are theological, Muslims claim they have a stronger claim to Jewish Holy Sites than the Jews and use this as a justification to build their mosques there.
On March 25, 2019 Arutz 7 reported "Iran Broadcasting Authority (IRIB) head Abdolali Ali-Asgari, talking about superiority and great nations, said that while in ancient times G-d had given the Jewish People superiority, the Iranian people - the countrymen of the Prophet Muhammad's companion Salman the Persian - were chosen to "shoulder the heavy burden of truth and progress in the world" after the Jews "pursued worldly ornaments and behaved unjustly."
Ishrat Hussain Muhammad wrote in Quora “… Moses & Prophet Abraham PBUH were Muslims...The Islamic belief is that all the prophets including the last prophet Mohammad PBUH were following the will of the God and all prophets were teaching same thing and from same God, therefore Islam considers all prophets to be Muslims…” According to Islam Jewish Prophets like Abraham, Moses and David were actually Muslim and Jewish Holy Sites are actually Islamic Holy Sites.
According to Islamic replacement theology Islam replaced Judaism and Muslims replaced the Jews as the inheritors of Jewish Holy sites. Based on this view, Muslims justify Islamic colonialism, the occupation of Jewish Holy Sites and deny the connection of modern Jews to Jewish Holy Sites and to the land of Israel.
Abuse of Freedom of religion
Israel allows Muslims to pray in Al Aqsa but Jews were not allowed to pray in Hevron's Cave of the Patriarchs (Judaism's second holiest site)or in Jerusalem's Western Wall during the Jordanian Occupation (1948-1967).
Today Jews are not allowed to pray in any Jewish holy sites under Islamic rule and are humiliated if they try.
Former Jordanian tourism minister Maha al-Khatib said, "There is a Zionist scheme to claim ownership of any part of our Arab homeland, especially in archaeological sites."
On July 26, 2019 Elder of Zion reported "Palestine Today has an article about Joseph's Tomb in Schechem (Nablus) and how the semi-regular Jewish pilgrims that visit the site have "turned it into a place that spreads death and blackness to the villagers" who live nearby.
Jews cannot visit without an army escort because otherwise they'd be lynched.
The article goes through a history of the site, saying that Palestinians are divided between believing that it is the tomb of the Biblical Joseph or of an Arab named Yusuf Dweikat.
It quotes a researcher of archeology from An-Najah National University named Louai Abu al-Saud. Al Saud. Abu Al-Saud did not deny or confirm that the 'Prophet Joseph' is buried in this grave, but he said that in case that is proven - from an archeological point of view - that this grave is the grave of Joseph, 'then we Palestinians, as Arabs and Muslims, are worthier of ownership of it than the Jews.'Palestinianism is now a replacement theology for Judaism. But Jews face Temple Mount when they pray, Arabs face Mecca even when in or around Temple Mount. Despite being the holiest site of Judaism, Jews are not allowed to pray on the Temple Mount.
On February 27, 2019 Elder of Zion reported "Arab and Muslim media, especially Palestinian Arab media, routinely deny that there were ever any Jewish Temples on the Temple Mount."
Howver, this academic paper by Milka Levy-Rubin about why the Dome of the Rock was built to begin with gives copious amounts of proof that show that the Muslims who built the Dome chose the site precisely because of its association with the two Temples.
The main point of the paper, published by the Bulletin of SOAS at the University of London in 2017, is that the Dome of the Rock was meant to be a rebuilding of the Temple of Solomon which would fulfill the need by Muslims to have their own significant holy place in their conquered lands that could compete with the Hagia Sophia church in Constantinople which claimed to have surpassed the beauty of Solomon’s temple.
The image linked below from the Ottoman Imperial Archives says that the Al Aqsa Mosque was built on the site of Solomon’s Temple.
Since the creation of the State of Israel Jews can defend themselves against Islamic persecution. Other minorities like the decimated Yazidi continue to be vulnerable to persecution by Islamic forces today because they don't have their own State to protect them.
For centuries Jews endured humiliation and abuse under Islamic rule, for centuries Jews were denied the freedom to pray in most of Judaism's holiest Sites converted into mosques, for centuries Jews were subject to institutionalized financial abuse in the name of Jizya, it is time to demand compensation."
Even if what you have written is all correct, it still does not excuse in any way what Israel are doing in Gaza.
Snipers taking out kids, rape as weapon of war, mass murder and burials, etc etc. IDF soldiers openly on social media boasting about their murders and destruction. Farken sick.
If you think this is going to help the Israel cause and Jewish people, you are delusional.
Once international groups get in there and start exposing the sheer scale of war crimes committed, Israel will truly be an international pariah.
One I don't think they will ever recover from.
But hey keep researching your history.
adam12 wrote:@Indo, it's great that you have taken the time to educate yourself about history, I commend you for that.
Now, take the time to educate yourself about law. International Law.
The right to self determination, human rights, the Geneva Conventions, the Genocide Conventions, the Statute of Rome, the rulings of the World Court in relation to Israel, the Laws of Armed Conflict, and so on.
Studying history in the ME has mellowed your views on FNP apparently.
Study some law.
While Israel is one of the rare countries in the middle east that tries to abide by International rules of war etc most of these bodies and rulings are just a complete joke that no country takes seriously and if a country like Israel did they would be destroyed by their enemies and cease to exist especially as their enemies care even less about International law or rulings.
andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:In regard to Jews co existing prior to 1948
IIts fair to assume that you have listened to Norman finkerlfucker garbage about how everything was peace and love before 1948
Well that is complete garbage the Jews were a minority in their own land, i mean seriously they had their most sacred site the temple mount taken over a shitty mosque built on it.
Other Jewish temple sites also had mosque built on them, there is many recorded Polgroms (basically mascares of Jewish people or other acts of violence)
Here is the better known ones before 1948
1517 HEBRON & SAFED POGROMS
1660 SAFED & TIBERIAS POGROMS
1834 HEBRON & SAFED
1838 SAFED
1920 NEBI MUSA RIOTS
1929 HEBRON & SAFED MASSACRES
1936 JAFFA RIOTS
1938 TIBERIAS POGROMThese ramped up when Jews began returning in larger numbers than before that happened long before 1948 especially in the late 1800's
Because Jews began buying back land
"In the 1880s, Jews, predominantly Ashkenazi,[2][3] began purchasing land and properties across Ottoman Palestine in order to expand the collective territorial ownership of the Yishuv. Large Jewish corporations and private Jewish buyers " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
Other than that Jews had a number of taxes put on them for not being muslim, the aim of these taxes was to force the to convert to Islam, and sadly it worked many converted to make life easier and this can explain where Arabs in the region got much of their Canaanite DNA from. (remember these Jews at the time had 100% Canaanite DNA)
"The Jizya was a discriminatory tax imposed only on non-muslims until the late 1800s. Non-muslims had to either convert to Islam or abandon their lands to avoid it. If they did not pay they were imprisoned, tortured and slaved.
Muslim rulers instituted the jizya to reduce the number of Jews living in the Holy Land, in what was then called Palestine (the Roman term for the area, with no connection to the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians today) before the British Mandate was instituted in 1922.
Until the late 1800s entire ancient Jewish communities had to flee Palestine to escape the brutality of Muslim authorities.
As Egyptian historian Bat Ye’or writes in her book, The Dhimmi: “The Jizya was paid in a humiliating public ceremony in which the non-Muslim while paying was struck in the head. If these taxes were not paid women and children were reduced to slavery, men were imprisoned and tortured until a ransom was paid for them."
"The Jewish communities in many cities under Muslim Rule were ruined by such demands. This custom of legalized financial abuses and extortion shattered the indigenous pre-Arab populations almost totally eliminating what remained of its peasantry…
"In 1849 the Jews of Tiberias envisaged exile because of the brutality, exactions, and injustice of the Muslim authorities. In addition to ordinary taxes, an Arab Sheik that ruled Hevron demanded that Jews pay an extra five thousand piastres annually for the protections of their lives and property. The Sheik threatened to attack and expel them from Hevron if it was not paid.”
Lyn Julius commented about the incontrovertible findings in George Bensoussan’ book Juifs en pays arabes: le grand deracinement 1850 – 1975:
“…Bensoussan, threatens to stand the notion of ”Jewish colonialism” on its head: it is the Jews who lived under Muslim rule who were the true victims of colonialism…
"By the time the Arab conquerors had swept over the Middle East and North Africa, the Jews had been living in the region for 1,000 years…
"Under Islam, according to the eighth-century Pact of Omar, indigenous Jews and Christians were permitted to practise as long as they acquiesced to the dhimmi condition of inferiority and institutionalised humiliation…
“… Bensoussan observes that the Islamic order was built on a ”colonial” notion – submission. The Muslim submits to Allah, the Muslim woman submits to her husband, the non-Muslim dhimmi submits to the Muslim. At the very bottom of the pile is the slave…
"He produces incontrovertible evidence that, 100 years before Israel was established, most Jews in Arab and Muslim lands lived in misery and fear….
"Jews were regularly mobbed, robbed, their possessions looted, beaten up on the slightest pretext, or false charge brought by a jealous neighbour. Jews were feminised in the Muslim imagination – cowardly, submissive, unable to stand up for themselves.
“…Bensoussan”s great achievement is not just to blow out of the water the myth of Arab-Jewish coexistence predating the creation of Israel, but unfashionably to place the colonial boot on the Arab foot…
"A sovereign Jewish state in the land of Israel begins to look like the liberation of a colonized, indigenous people from 14 centuries of subjugation…”
he Muslim conquestSimon Sebag Montefiore describes, in his book Jerusalem, the Arab Conquest of the Eastern Roman Empire (Chapter 16, page 166) that Arabs built the Al Aqsa Mosque in Temple Mount to make Muslims the legitimate heirs of Jewish sanctity: “In 518, aged thirty-five, Justinian found himself the real ruler of the Eastern empire when his uncle Justin was raised to the throne…
"Justinian demoted Judaism from a permited religion and banned Passover if it fell before Easter, converted synagogues into churches, forcibly baptized Jews, and commandeered Jewish History: in 537, when Justinian dedicated his breathtaking Church of Hagia Sophia (Holy Wisdom” in Constantinople, he is said to have reflected 'Solomon, I have surpassed thee.'
"Then he turned to Jerusalem to trump Solomon’s Temple. In 543 Justinian and Theodora started to build a basilica, the Nea Church of St.Mary Mother of God, almost 400 feet long and 187 feet high, with walls 16 feet thick, facing away from the Temple Mount and designed to overpower Solomon’s site…
"The Holy City was ruled by the rituals of Orthodox Christianity… The city was set up to host thousands of pilgrims: the grandees stayed with the patriarch; the poor pilgrims in the dormitories of Justinian’s hospices which had beds for 3,000; and ascetics in caves, often old Jewish tombs, in the surrounding hills…
" …Heraclitus dispatched an army to stop the Arabs…After months of skirmishing, the Arabs finally lured the Byzantines to battle amidst the impenetrable gorges of the Yarmuk river between today’s Jordan, Syria and Israeli Golan…and on August 636…
"Khalid cut of their retreat and by the end of the battle, the Christians were so exhausted that the Arabs found them lying down in their cloaks, ripe for the slaughter. Even the emperor’s brother was killed and Heraclitus himself never recovered from this defeat, one of the decisive battles in history, that lost Syria and Palestine. Byzantine rule, weakened by the Persian war, seems to have collapsed like a house of cards…
"The Arabs converged on the city which they called Ilya (Aelia Capitolina, the Roman name (for Jerusalem))… Omar offered Jerusalem a Covenant – dhimma- of Surrender that promised religious tolerance to the Christians in return for payment of jizya tax of submission. Once this was agreed, Omar set out for Jerusalem…"…Heraclitus seized power (of the Bizantine Empire) in 610…Constantinople was besieged by the Persians ( then Zoroastrians)…(Heraclitus) outmanoeuvred the Persian forces …then defeated their main army…
"… In 632 Muhammad, aged about sixty-two, died (in Saudi Arabia) and was succeeded by his father in law, Abu Bakr…
"Abu Bakr managed to pacify Arabia. Then he turned to the Bizantine and Persian empires, which Muslims regarded as evanescent, sinful and corrupt. The Commander dispatched contingent of warriors on camels to raid Iraq and Palestine…in Mecca, Abu Bakr died and was succeeded by Omar…
"Omar knew that Muhammad had revered David and Solomon. 'Take me to the sanctuary of David,' he ordered Sophronius (Jerusalem’s Christian Patriarch). He and his warriors entered Temple Mount, probably through the Prophet’s Gate in the south, and found it contaminated by 'a dungheap which the Christians had put there to offend the Jews.
"Omar asked to be shown the Holy of Holies. A Jewish convert, Kaab al Ahbar, known as the Rabbi, replied that if the Commander preserved 'the wall'(perhaps referring to the last Herodian remains, including the Western Wall), 'I will reveal to him where are the ruins of the Temple.'
"Kaab showed Omar the foundation stone of the Temple, the rock which the Arabs called the Sakhra.Aided by his troops, Omar began to clear the debris to create somewhere to pray.
"Kaab sugested he place this north of the foundation stone 'so you will face make two qiblas, that of Moses and that of Muhammad.'
“'You still lean towards the Jews,' Omar supposedly told Kaab, placing his first prayer house south of the rock, roughly where the al-Aqsa Mosque stands today, so that it clearly faced Mecca.
"Omar had followed Muhammad’s wish to reach past Christianity to restore and co-opt this place of ancient holiness, to make Muslims the legitimate heirs of Jewish sanctity and outflank the Christians.” (Simon Sebag Montefiore “Jerusalem” page 166-184)
Muslim Replacement theology
The roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict are theological, Muslims claim they have a stronger claim to Jewish Holy Sites than the Jews and use this as a justification to build their mosques there.
On March 25, 2019 Arutz 7 reported "Iran Broadcasting Authority (IRIB) head Abdolali Ali-Asgari, talking about superiority and great nations, said that while in ancient times G-d had given the Jewish People superiority, the Iranian people - the countrymen of the Prophet Muhammad's companion Salman the Persian - were chosen to "shoulder the heavy burden of truth and progress in the world" after the Jews "pursued worldly ornaments and behaved unjustly."
Ishrat Hussain Muhammad wrote in Quora “… Moses & Prophet Abraham PBUH were Muslims...The Islamic belief is that all the prophets including the last prophet Mohammad PBUH were following the will of the God and all prophets were teaching same thing and from same God, therefore Islam considers all prophets to be Muslims…” According to Islam Jewish Prophets like Abraham, Moses and David were actually Muslim and Jewish Holy Sites are actually Islamic Holy Sites.
According to Islamic replacement theology Islam replaced Judaism and Muslims replaced the Jews as the inheritors of Jewish Holy sites. Based on this view, Muslims justify Islamic colonialism, the occupation of Jewish Holy Sites and deny the connection of modern Jews to Jewish Holy Sites and to the land of Israel.
Abuse of Freedom of religion
Israel allows Muslims to pray in Al Aqsa but Jews were not allowed to pray in Hevron's Cave of the Patriarchs (Judaism's second holiest site)or in Jerusalem's Western Wall during the Jordanian Occupation (1948-1967).
Today Jews are not allowed to pray in any Jewish holy sites under Islamic rule and are humiliated if they try.
Former Jordanian tourism minister Maha al-Khatib said, "There is a Zionist scheme to claim ownership of any part of our Arab homeland, especially in archaeological sites."
On July 26, 2019 Elder of Zion reported "Palestine Today has an article about Joseph's Tomb in Schechem (Nablus) and how the semi-regular Jewish pilgrims that visit the site have "turned it into a place that spreads death and blackness to the villagers" who live nearby.
Jews cannot visit without an army escort because otherwise they'd be lynched.
The article goes through a history of the site, saying that Palestinians are divided between believing that it is the tomb of the Biblical Joseph or of an Arab named Yusuf Dweikat.
It quotes a researcher of archeology from An-Najah National University named Louai Abu al-Saud. Al Saud. Abu Al-Saud did not deny or confirm that the 'Prophet Joseph' is buried in this grave, but he said that in case that is proven - from an archeological point of view - that this grave is the grave of Joseph, 'then we Palestinians, as Arabs and Muslims, are worthier of ownership of it than the Jews.'Palestinianism is now a replacement theology for Judaism. But Jews face Temple Mount when they pray, Arabs face Mecca even when in or around Temple Mount. Despite being the holiest site of Judaism, Jews are not allowed to pray on the Temple Mount.
On February 27, 2019 Elder of Zion reported "Arab and Muslim media, especially Palestinian Arab media, routinely deny that there were ever any Jewish Temples on the Temple Mount."
Howver, this academic paper by Milka Levy-Rubin about why the Dome of the Rock was built to begin with gives copious amounts of proof that show that the Muslims who built the Dome chose the site precisely because of its association with the two Temples.
The main point of the paper, published by the Bulletin of SOAS at the University of London in 2017, is that the Dome of the Rock was meant to be a rebuilding of the Temple of Solomon which would fulfill the need by Muslims to have their own significant holy place in their conquered lands that could compete with the Hagia Sophia church in Constantinople which claimed to have surpassed the beauty of Solomon’s temple.
The image linked below from the Ottoman Imperial Archives says that the Al Aqsa Mosque was built on the site of Solomon’s Temple.
Since the creation of the State of Israel Jews can defend themselves against Islamic persecution. Other minorities like the decimated Yazidi continue to be vulnerable to persecution by Islamic forces today because they don't have their own State to protect them.
For centuries Jews endured humiliation and abuse under Islamic rule, for centuries Jews were denied the freedom to pray in most of Judaism's holiest Sites converted into mosques, for centuries Jews were subject to institutionalized financial abuse in the name of Jizya, it is time to demand compensation."
Even if what you have written is all correct, it still does not excuse in any way what Israel are doing in Gaza.
Snipers taking out kids, rape as weapon of war, mass murder and burials, etc etc. IDF soldiers openly on social media boasting about their murders and destruction. Farken sick.
If you think this is going to help the Israel cause and Jewish people, you are delusional.
Once international groups get in there and start exposing the sheer scale of war crimes committed, Israel will truly be an international pariah.
One I don't think they will ever recover from.
But hey keep researching your history.
Dude get off Tik Tok
But seriously it is interesting how people like you that dont really come across as that whole conspiracy theory type crowd, can become victims of anti Jewish propaganda and throw all logic out the widow.
Is it possible that noinfo is so passionate about Israel being all genocidal, and calling people anti-semitic, because of his hatred of the types of people that have a history of calling for a free Palestine? Is it because he despises Islam? Maybe he just wants to spite the left? Perhaps just reasons only his pea-brain can comprehend? Plenty of meat to chew on this speculative bone.
Hiccups wrote:Is it possible that noinfo is so passionate about Israel being all genocidal, and calling people anti-semitic, because of his hatred of the types of people that have a history of calling for a free Palestine? Is it because he despises Islam? Maybe he just wants to spite the left? Perhaps just reasons only his pea-brain can comprehend? Plenty of meat to chew on this speculative bone.
Wouldn’t saying “free Palestine” make the Jews want it more?
to paraphrase the best irreverent grafitti add-on I ever saw, "FREE PALESTINE!" '(with every purchase over $25)'
indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:In regard to Jews co existing prior to 1948
IIts fair to assume that you have listened to Norman finkerlfucker garbage about how everything was peace and love before 1948
Well that is complete garbage the Jews were a minority in their own land, i mean seriously they had their most sacred site the temple mount taken over a shitty mosque built on it.
Other Jewish temple sites also had mosque built on them, there is many recorded Polgroms (basically mascares of Jewish people or other acts of violence)
Here is the better known ones before 1948
1517 HEBRON & SAFED POGROMS
1660 SAFED & TIBERIAS POGROMS
1834 HEBRON & SAFED
1838 SAFED
1920 NEBI MUSA RIOTS
1929 HEBRON & SAFED MASSACRES
1936 JAFFA RIOTS
1938 TIBERIAS POGROMThese ramped up when Jews began returning in larger numbers than before that happened long before 1948 especially in the late 1800's
Because Jews began buying back land
"In the 1880s, Jews, predominantly Ashkenazi,[2][3] began purchasing land and properties across Ottoman Palestine in order to expand the collective territorial ownership of the Yishuv. Large Jewish corporations and private Jewish buyers " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
Other than that Jews had a number of taxes put on them for not being muslim, the aim of these taxes was to force the to convert to Islam, and sadly it worked many converted to make life easier and this can explain where Arabs in the region got much of their Canaanite DNA from. (remember these Jews at the time had 100% Canaanite DNA)
"The Jizya was a discriminatory tax imposed only on non-muslims until the late 1800s. Non-muslims had to either convert to Islam or abandon their lands to avoid it. If they did not pay they were imprisoned, tortured and slaved.
Muslim rulers instituted the jizya to reduce the number of Jews living in the Holy Land, in what was then called Palestine (the Roman term for the area, with no connection to the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians today) before the British Mandate was instituted in 1922.
Until the late 1800s entire ancient Jewish communities had to flee Palestine to escape the brutality of Muslim authorities.
As Egyptian historian Bat Ye’or writes in her book, The Dhimmi: “The Jizya was paid in a humiliating public ceremony in which the non-Muslim while paying was struck in the head. If these taxes were not paid women and children were reduced to slavery, men were imprisoned and tortured until a ransom was paid for them."
"The Jewish communities in many cities under Muslim Rule were ruined by such demands. This custom of legalized financial abuses and extortion shattered the indigenous pre-Arab populations almost totally eliminating what remained of its peasantry…
"In 1849 the Jews of Tiberias envisaged exile because of the brutality, exactions, and injustice of the Muslim authorities. In addition to ordinary taxes, an Arab Sheik that ruled Hevron demanded that Jews pay an extra five thousand piastres annually for the protections of their lives and property. The Sheik threatened to attack and expel them from Hevron if it was not paid.”
Lyn Julius commented about the incontrovertible findings in George Bensoussan’ book Juifs en pays arabes: le grand deracinement 1850 – 1975:
“…Bensoussan, threatens to stand the notion of ”Jewish colonialism” on its head: it is the Jews who lived under Muslim rule who were the true victims of colonialism…
"By the time the Arab conquerors had swept over the Middle East and North Africa, the Jews had been living in the region for 1,000 years…
"Under Islam, according to the eighth-century Pact of Omar, indigenous Jews and Christians were permitted to practise as long as they acquiesced to the dhimmi condition of inferiority and institutionalised humiliation…
“… Bensoussan observes that the Islamic order was built on a ”colonial” notion – submission. The Muslim submits to Allah, the Muslim woman submits to her husband, the non-Muslim dhimmi submits to the Muslim. At the very bottom of the pile is the slave…
"He produces incontrovertible evidence that, 100 years before Israel was established, most Jews in Arab and Muslim lands lived in misery and fear….
"Jews were regularly mobbed, robbed, their possessions looted, beaten up on the slightest pretext, or false charge brought by a jealous neighbour. Jews were feminised in the Muslim imagination – cowardly, submissive, unable to stand up for themselves.
“…Bensoussan”s great achievement is not just to blow out of the water the myth of Arab-Jewish coexistence predating the creation of Israel, but unfashionably to place the colonial boot on the Arab foot…
"A sovereign Jewish state in the land of Israel begins to look like the liberation of a colonized, indigenous people from 14 centuries of subjugation…”
he Muslim conquestSimon Sebag Montefiore describes, in his book Jerusalem, the Arab Conquest of the Eastern Roman Empire (Chapter 16, page 166) that Arabs built the Al Aqsa Mosque in Temple Mount to make Muslims the legitimate heirs of Jewish sanctity: “In 518, aged thirty-five, Justinian found himself the real ruler of the Eastern empire when his uncle Justin was raised to the throne…
"Justinian demoted Judaism from a permited religion and banned Passover if it fell before Easter, converted synagogues into churches, forcibly baptized Jews, and commandeered Jewish History: in 537, when Justinian dedicated his breathtaking Church of Hagia Sophia (Holy Wisdom” in Constantinople, he is said to have reflected 'Solomon, I have surpassed thee.'
"Then he turned to Jerusalem to trump Solomon’s Temple. In 543 Justinian and Theodora started to build a basilica, the Nea Church of St.Mary Mother of God, almost 400 feet long and 187 feet high, with walls 16 feet thick, facing away from the Temple Mount and designed to overpower Solomon’s site…
"The Holy City was ruled by the rituals of Orthodox Christianity… The city was set up to host thousands of pilgrims: the grandees stayed with the patriarch; the poor pilgrims in the dormitories of Justinian’s hospices which had beds for 3,000; and ascetics in caves, often old Jewish tombs, in the surrounding hills…
" …Heraclitus dispatched an army to stop the Arabs…After months of skirmishing, the Arabs finally lured the Byzantines to battle amidst the impenetrable gorges of the Yarmuk river between today’s Jordan, Syria and Israeli Golan…and on August 636…
"Khalid cut of their retreat and by the end of the battle, the Christians were so exhausted that the Arabs found them lying down in their cloaks, ripe for the slaughter. Even the emperor’s brother was killed and Heraclitus himself never recovered from this defeat, one of the decisive battles in history, that lost Syria and Palestine. Byzantine rule, weakened by the Persian war, seems to have collapsed like a house of cards…
"The Arabs converged on the city which they called Ilya (Aelia Capitolina, the Roman name (for Jerusalem))… Omar offered Jerusalem a Covenant – dhimma- of Surrender that promised religious tolerance to the Christians in return for payment of jizya tax of submission. Once this was agreed, Omar set out for Jerusalem…"…Heraclitus seized power (of the Bizantine Empire) in 610…Constantinople was besieged by the Persians ( then Zoroastrians)…(Heraclitus) outmanoeuvred the Persian forces …then defeated their main army…
"… In 632 Muhammad, aged about sixty-two, died (in Saudi Arabia) and was succeeded by his father in law, Abu Bakr…
"Abu Bakr managed to pacify Arabia. Then he turned to the Bizantine and Persian empires, which Muslims regarded as evanescent, sinful and corrupt. The Commander dispatched contingent of warriors on camels to raid Iraq and Palestine…in Mecca, Abu Bakr died and was succeeded by Omar…
"Omar knew that Muhammad had revered David and Solomon. 'Take me to the sanctuary of David,' he ordered Sophronius (Jerusalem’s Christian Patriarch). He and his warriors entered Temple Mount, probably through the Prophet’s Gate in the south, and found it contaminated by 'a dungheap which the Christians had put there to offend the Jews.
"Omar asked to be shown the Holy of Holies. A Jewish convert, Kaab al Ahbar, known as the Rabbi, replied that if the Commander preserved 'the wall'(perhaps referring to the last Herodian remains, including the Western Wall), 'I will reveal to him where are the ruins of the Temple.'
"Kaab showed Omar the foundation stone of the Temple, the rock which the Arabs called the Sakhra.Aided by his troops, Omar began to clear the debris to create somewhere to pray.
"Kaab sugested he place this north of the foundation stone 'so you will face make two qiblas, that of Moses and that of Muhammad.'
“'You still lean towards the Jews,' Omar supposedly told Kaab, placing his first prayer house south of the rock, roughly where the al-Aqsa Mosque stands today, so that it clearly faced Mecca.
"Omar had followed Muhammad’s wish to reach past Christianity to restore and co-opt this place of ancient holiness, to make Muslims the legitimate heirs of Jewish sanctity and outflank the Christians.” (Simon Sebag Montefiore “Jerusalem” page 166-184)
Muslim Replacement theology
The roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict are theological, Muslims claim they have a stronger claim to Jewish Holy Sites than the Jews and use this as a justification to build their mosques there.
On March 25, 2019 Arutz 7 reported "Iran Broadcasting Authority (IRIB) head Abdolali Ali-Asgari, talking about superiority and great nations, said that while in ancient times G-d had given the Jewish People superiority, the Iranian people - the countrymen of the Prophet Muhammad's companion Salman the Persian - were chosen to "shoulder the heavy burden of truth and progress in the world" after the Jews "pursued worldly ornaments and behaved unjustly."
Ishrat Hussain Muhammad wrote in Quora “… Moses & Prophet Abraham PBUH were Muslims...The Islamic belief is that all the prophets including the last prophet Mohammad PBUH were following the will of the God and all prophets were teaching same thing and from same God, therefore Islam considers all prophets to be Muslims…” According to Islam Jewish Prophets like Abraham, Moses and David were actually Muslim and Jewish Holy Sites are actually Islamic Holy Sites.
According to Islamic replacement theology Islam replaced Judaism and Muslims replaced the Jews as the inheritors of Jewish Holy sites. Based on this view, Muslims justify Islamic colonialism, the occupation of Jewish Holy Sites and deny the connection of modern Jews to Jewish Holy Sites and to the land of Israel.
Abuse of Freedom of religion
Israel allows Muslims to pray in Al Aqsa but Jews were not allowed to pray in Hevron's Cave of the Patriarchs (Judaism's second holiest site)or in Jerusalem's Western Wall during the Jordanian Occupation (1948-1967).
Today Jews are not allowed to pray in any Jewish holy sites under Islamic rule and are humiliated if they try.
Former Jordanian tourism minister Maha al-Khatib said, "There is a Zionist scheme to claim ownership of any part of our Arab homeland, especially in archaeological sites."
On July 26, 2019 Elder of Zion reported "Palestine Today has an article about Joseph's Tomb in Schechem (Nablus) and how the semi-regular Jewish pilgrims that visit the site have "turned it into a place that spreads death and blackness to the villagers" who live nearby.
Jews cannot visit without an army escort because otherwise they'd be lynched.
The article goes through a history of the site, saying that Palestinians are divided between believing that it is the tomb of the Biblical Joseph or of an Arab named Yusuf Dweikat.
It quotes a researcher of archeology from An-Najah National University named Louai Abu al-Saud. Al Saud. Abu Al-Saud did not deny or confirm that the 'Prophet Joseph' is buried in this grave, but he said that in case that is proven - from an archeological point of view - that this grave is the grave of Joseph, 'then we Palestinians, as Arabs and Muslims, are worthier of ownership of it than the Jews.'Palestinianism is now a replacement theology for Judaism. But Jews face Temple Mount when they pray, Arabs face Mecca even when in or around Temple Mount. Despite being the holiest site of Judaism, Jews are not allowed to pray on the Temple Mount.
On February 27, 2019 Elder of Zion reported "Arab and Muslim media, especially Palestinian Arab media, routinely deny that there were ever any Jewish Temples on the Temple Mount."
Howver, this academic paper by Milka Levy-Rubin about why the Dome of the Rock was built to begin with gives copious amounts of proof that show that the Muslims who built the Dome chose the site precisely because of its association with the two Temples.
The main point of the paper, published by the Bulletin of SOAS at the University of London in 2017, is that the Dome of the Rock was meant to be a rebuilding of the Temple of Solomon which would fulfill the need by Muslims to have their own significant holy place in their conquered lands that could compete with the Hagia Sophia church in Constantinople which claimed to have surpassed the beauty of Solomon’s temple.
The image linked below from the Ottoman Imperial Archives says that the Al Aqsa Mosque was built on the site of Solomon’s Temple.
Since the creation of the State of Israel Jews can defend themselves against Islamic persecution. Other minorities like the decimated Yazidi continue to be vulnerable to persecution by Islamic forces today because they don't have their own State to protect them.
For centuries Jews endured humiliation and abuse under Islamic rule, for centuries Jews were denied the freedom to pray in most of Judaism's holiest Sites converted into mosques, for centuries Jews were subject to institutionalized financial abuse in the name of Jizya, it is time to demand compensation."
Even if what you have written is all correct, it still does not excuse in any way what Israel are doing in Gaza.
Snipers taking out kids, rape as weapon of war, mass murder and burials, etc etc. IDF soldiers openly on social media boasting about their murders and destruction. Farken sick.
If you think this is going to help the Israel cause and Jewish people, you are delusional.
Once international groups get in there and start exposing the sheer scale of war crimes committed, Israel will truly be an international pariah.
One I don't think they will ever recover from.
But hey keep researching your history.Dude get off Tik Tok
But seriously it is interesting how people like you that dont really come across as that whole conspiracy theory type crowd, can become victims of anti Jewish propaganda and throw all logic out the widow.
Dude, it's on record what they are doing. IDF themselves filming and articles in Israeli media. But carry on....
Here you go optimist
Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...
But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!
So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like
You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...
maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here
Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain
All the best...brother
PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!