Interesting stuff
Dr Gabor's video is informed from experience and comes from the heart. What do you do in that situation? He suggests that some Palestinians probably descend from the original Judeans the Romans tried to wipe out, which is such a sad irony. Their dispossession is enormous.
Historically the Palestinians have agitated in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt when there as well; and then add the conquesting nature of radical Islam which has plenty of evidence - and when weighing up with the brutality of the occupation I can't even balance the scales to find righteous/non righteous, let alone settle a land dispute.
velocityjohnno wrote:Dr Gabor's video is informed from experience and comes from the heart. What do you do in that situation? He suggests that some Palestinians probably descend from the original Judeans the Romans tried to wipe out, which is such a sad irony. Their dispossession is enormous.
Historically the Palestinians have agitated in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt when there as well; and then add the conquesting nature of radical Islam which has plenty of evidence - and when weighing up with the brutality of the occupation I can't even balance the scales to find righteous/non righteous, let alone settle a land dispute.
quite right vj, almost belongs on the voice thread. our issue is so ideologically simple by comparison.
Yeah and looking at this and the pure hatred and bloodshed, let's find an incorporation here if we can. No matter what happens/results in Oz today.
Whataboutism everywhere.
I voted yes soggy. And pretty sure i only commented once on that thread. My “angry shit” lol.
soggydog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:I watched it, basically a Jew with too much heart for his own good.
But what does it change? He doesn't offer up solution's?
What do you expect Israel and Jews to do?
The reality is the Jews are the the true indigenous people who then lost control of their land, and are only reclaiming what was theirs.
The obvious common sense solution is a two state solution and two state solutions have been thrown up in the past more than once but always rejected by Palestines because they don't want to share they want it all, so as a result they end up with far less now than they otherwise would.
Then they are both left having to live with each other (in Israel) and as neighbors.
The problem is the radical Palestine arabs like Hamas will never be happy until every Jew is either gone or dead (from the land to the sea) and every bit of land be it Israel, West Bank, Gaza is theirs so Israelis have to live with the risk of rockets every day, even if they do their best with the dome to prevent them. (and in normal times not attack unless needed)
Then occasionally you get major attacks where Israel have no choice to fight back, and this time it seems like Israels patience has been broken and want to end it for good with Gaza.
You cant blame Israel they have agreed to two state solution's, i wouldn't be surprised if they regain control of Gaza after pretty much flattening it as if they dont it will all just happen again and again and again.
And then of course no matter what happens with Gaza they will always have to live with the risk of attacks from other borders.
BTW. regard to seeds comment in regard to FNP trauma and intergenerational trauma relating to this, the Jews have experienced more persecution and trauma then pretty much any group in the world, but it hasn't magically made them have the issues FNP have, actually quite the opposite Jewish people are one of the most successful groups of people in the world.
So the Nakba was justified, did you miss the part of Gabors video where he stated they’re all descendants of the original inhabitants. Some remained Jewish and others converted to Islam. Yet all indigenous to the land.
I’m not sure you really watched Indo. If you did it was with underlying prejudice.And who ended up becoming the Nazi’s.
Ive listened to a few different podcast recently on the history including by historian's they all seem to have slightly different twist and focus on different aspects and obviously its hard to explain thousands of years of history in even an hour, but i think most would disagree that all Palestines originate from original Israel Jews, some have said some original Jews remained some converted with the introduction of Islam, but generally speaking they came from other regions/countries much of the land was apparently claimed and owned by the very rich of other countries and often leased to farmers.
I have no idea how many Christians and Jews remained in the area or even when the Druze aspect was thrown in the mix, but Jerusalem is pretty much the most import place in the word for them all.
BTW. Im not claiming to know it all or understand it all only pointing out what others have said.
seeds wrote:Live and rule? Fuck me! Right where they are now and always have been. Jointly, multiculturally; everyone’s finger in the pie of prosperity.
Sorry its just not realistic even if the 90%* of people on both sides want that the 10%* on one side will ensure that never happens, and the 10% are the ones with the more radical views, there is literally some saying that translates to "from the land to the sea", which literally means seeing every Jew gone or dead from the land to the sea, thats the end goal.
You are dealing with crazy ideologies that are a mix of a radical aspects of Islam and radical nationalism.
And then add to that you have others with just as crazy ideologies in places like Iran adding even more fuel to things and making things possible with training and funding of weapons etc
*Percentage's are unknown and just an example only.
Again not claiming to know it all, but i still understand this aspect and what drives things.
Etarip, what do you reckon?
Can you unravel the Gordian Knot of the Middle East and the likely future events?
Hamas is bad is the easy bit.....
bonza wrote:Whataboutism everywhere.
I voted yes soggy. And pretty sure i only commented once on that thread. My “angry shit” lol.
Sorry mate, didn’t mean to interpret your posts as angry. Actually you made a call for kindness. Very fitting call for the current times.
No worries soggy. All the best mate
frog - That Knot is an excellent analogy ,
Seems like the Israeli's have decided to do what Alexander the Great did when confronted by it .Dispose of it quickly rather unravel the unravelable .
More like a ball of tangled fishing line than a knot.
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Damn triple post somehow.
‘hasbara’
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‘The torah says we shalt not kill… we shalt not steal…’
- rabbi el perm ;)
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and the same thing motivating the Yes campaign of The Voice is also very much motivating the strong anti-Israel protests and Hamas celebrations and support currently taking place across the west: western marxism inspired anti-west hate, critical race theory, postcolonial ideology, anti-occupier ideology and indigeneity ideology.
It's also why the lgbtqia+ community is having a bizarre moment of confusion and contradiction by supporting Islamic terrorists: their socialist critical race theory fuelled anti-occupier anti-oppressor ideology impels them to support it.
There are actually people on this planet who have such an ignorance to history that they think that Israel is some kind of militant, colonial or imperial occupier regime in the region that is oppressing, ethnically cleansing and stealing the lands of the true indigenous rightful owners and original inhabitants of the land.
It's completely disgusting.
The anti-colonial’ ideology, powerful in the academy but long overdue for serious challenge, applies a toxic but historically nonsensical mix of Soviet propaganda, US anti-racist jargon & traditional anti-semitism to a complex history.
— S Sebag Montefiore (@simonmontefiore) October 14, 2023
My new piece in the Spectator today; the rabid anti-Israelism we're seeing is one aspect of the same fetishization of 'indigeneity' that is causing so much irrationality re: Native Americans. As we've seen in the past week, dogmatic misreadings of history dehumanize everyone.
— Jeff Fynn-Paul (@JeffFynnPaul) October 14, 2023
I always wondered at leftist intellectuals who supported Stalin’s Terror & rightists who excused Hitler. Today’s Hamas apologists w their bloviations re ‘colonialism’ belong to that tradition but worse: after abundant evidence of gleeful slaughter of civilians they persist
— S Sebag Montefiore (@simonmontefiore) October 14, 2023
The problem has been that any academic who did challenge the anti-colonial ideology did not get hired or tenured. You had to be inside a university to see how quickly overt political discrimination became normal. https://t.co/cBO4mK7KU3
— Niall Ferguson (@nfergus) October 14, 2023
Soon pic.twitter.com/qhKJiAc75R
— Being Libertarian (@beinlibertarian) October 14, 2023
A major protest against Israel is taking place in London right now pic.twitter.com/oslNJg4oVO
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) October 14, 2023
Channel 9 are doing some real good coverage with these videos
Gee's its getting crazy over there, we are so lucky to live in a country like Australia.
Uncensored from U-tube
Pretty crazy we can watch this stuff these days on our PC or phones, it almost doesn't seem real like its a movie or computer game.
Hard to see it all exactly but you think they are shooting at guys in scuba gear or without?
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gsco you've accurately outlined the dominant ideology of the university humanities departments above. I have noticed it's similarity to Soviet cold war ideologies used to disrupt and overthrow targeted democracies during that time.
indo-dreaming wrote:Pretty crazy we can watch this stuff these days on our PC or phones, it almost doesn't seem real like its a movie or computer game.
Impressive obs @indo, it is important we think exactly what you are saying, while watching this stuff, lest we become blank and passive to it. Like all news, but especially this. This shit should fuck you up a little bit, like it does goofy, if you are going to spend time with it. So, small, real, engaged doses.
Religion! (War)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing...
basesix wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Pretty crazy we can watch this stuff these days on our PC or phones, it almost doesn't seem real like its a movie or computer game.
Impressive obs @indo, it is important we think exactly what you are saying, while watching this stuff, lest we become blank and passive to it. Like all news, but especially this. This shit should fuck you up a little bit, like it does goofy, if you are going to spend time with it. So, small, real, engaged doses.
Yeah when watching that kind of stuff its important to remember it is real and real people, i think watching footage like the channel 9 video helps people remember this, its irrelevant if you tend to support one side or the other politically or in theory or none at all, i think its important to actually see what the people on each side are going through and to remember that most are just victims of it all and in a sad sense unlucky to be born where they have, and on the flipside we all somehow got lucky and got born in a country that is relatively peaceful with much opportunity which we should never forget.
velocityjohnno wrote:gsco you've accurately outlined the dominant ideology of the university humanities departments above. I have noticed it's similarity to Soviet cold war ideologies used to disrupt and overthrow targeted democracies during that time.
It’s very much the same ideologies and information war that China is currently using to displace the west in and win over the global south and the pacific nations right at this very moment.
Yes, and in this op-ed (mentioned before) the young Jewish student and social justice activist learns what it's like having the social justice mob turned on you, and comes out sounding like a nationalist:
Worth a listen. Zeihan points out that Hamas has factions and not all would have even known about the radical group's plans. His description of Israel's politics does little to build confidence in good decision making going forward.
The US can't fix it.
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5:20 in the Zeihan (sounds like Zion) video - the people protected from taxes, get paid to have kids, don't have to serve in military: if they study the religion. What could possibly go wrong with that one lol
…..^^wmd style ‘hasbara’
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Iran now saying they will intervene if Israel goes into Gaza…..not bad eh…they start the war using Hamas and now want to be the heroes …
…team Jelly will be pleased anyway….bring on another bullshitting you tube video….there’s one for every occasion….Jelly’s got a quiver full of em…
...hopefully one day an enclave of Islamic fundamentalists will buy the house next door to Jelly’s house so they can hang out together ….no one would deserve it more.
In regard to all these Aljazeera media links & videos, It should be noted its always been considered very bias in favour of middle east islam and even has a history of some very questionable links and support including of known terrorist .
Its head quarters was even bombed by Israel a few years back (they gave them a few hours to get out)
Id take any of their view's with a huge grain of salt in the same way others would with any of the Israel main stream media news companies.
indo-dreaming wrote:In regard to all these Aljazeera media links & videos, It should be noted its always been considered very bias in favour of middle east islam and even has a history of some very questionable links and support including of known terrorist .
Its head quarters was even bombed by Israel a few years back (they gave them a few hours to get out)
Id take any of their view's with a huge grain of salt in the same way others would with any of the Israel main stream media news companies.
But Sky news on the other hand.
Recommend watching 'Ordinary Men' on Netflix. Very heavy but people need to understand situations that lead to mass murder.
The language being thrown around in this latest ME escalation from both sides is terrifying.
Trying to understand the why to stop killings happening rather than just taking sides should be priority.
No winners in this situation...
Yeah the comparison to Sky news is a good one, its basically a middle east Sky news for muslims, fine if you then check out some Israel news channel, so you then can join the two half's and get the full picture.
Haha flopti… lawd of the flopti verse ;);)
- spinning yarns again…
Imagine some fella moving next door to you and spouting shit like this :
‘ There are actually 3 heavens in translation, the sky above is the first, space is the second and planet Heaven the third. ( paul talked about the third heaven) You get to planet heaven after your spirit leaves your body. When you die your spirit descends into the heart of the earth and waits. Then if approved by God you are lifted up and go through the tunnel which is probably like a wormhole in Sci Fi. If unapproved you will wait for judgement but there is no time there so you wouldn't know if you've been there a year or a hundred years. At the end of the tunnel you will be greeted by The Christ Himself in His glorified form and put on planet Heaven, a very beautiful and physical place and in your brand new physical body. Earth will also be renewed after the great tribulation so for a time there will still be two seperate habitations and eventually just one.
It is comforting to know that on my death, my heavenly father will still look after me and guide my spirit or "actual person" through the maze of death and to the renewed and promised life.
Also, If anyone is interested in the time of the end and the mark of the beast etc. I think I can answer that for you, as I have a theory which has been playing out exactly correct over the last few years. ‘
- flopti (Tues 29 dec 2020)
Ummm… Sure ;) whatever u reckon ay ;);)
Optimist wrote:Iran now saying they will intervene if Israel goes into Gaza…..not bad eh…they start the war using Hamas and now want to be the heroes …
…team Jelly will be pleased anyway….bring on another bullshitting you tube video….there’s one for every occasion….Jelly’s got a quiver full of em…
...hopefully one day an enclave of Islamic fundamentalists will buy the house next door to Jelly’s house so they can hang out together ….no one would deserve it more.
Did you see the video of Muslims and Christians standing together in solidarity due to the draconian policies of Israel. How’d you like your church taxed, back dated to occupation.
Don’t be one eyed Opti, there is poor behaviour on both sides. And besides, aren’t you supposed to love thy neighbour.
Thanks for re posting an old post….I was deep in thought during that period.
Unfortunately for you jelly ….you will never see heaven ….you have made your choice…. And that’s a real shame…..for God loves all His children but can’t include those that hate Him….His new system just wouldn’t work…
“Trying to understand the why to stop killings happening rather than just taking sides should be priority.”
It’s deranged to think just because someone would want to prevent innocent civilians being killed or maimed that they are somehow an apologist for a despicable ideology, but here we are
I’ve never professed to hating god flopti.
- not sure why u insist on making shit up ;)
Good luck with the whole ‘spread love and treat others kindly’ and show jesus inspired affection and compassion stuff…
- doesn’t seem to be working too well for u ;)
And yeah, nice ‘deep thought’ story… fascinating.
…and these ummm ‘bullshitting you tube videos’ ;);)
I don’t watch any of your biased videos…..as you mine….we are polar opposites…
But, at the end …and this may be it…or the early beginning stages of it….
….and Armageddon getting very close…little tiny Israel vs the cowardly sellout world…
we will see who prevails….optimist out.
Haha ;)
… bullshit awayyy
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&pp=ygURaSByYW4gc28gZmFyIGF3YXk%3D In and out of retirement optimist
Big tragedy is the ME
What is your interest in the Jewish faith / people as a fundamental christian?
Is it what I proffered the other day about them renouncing Judaism on the last day as my good Jewish mate was telling me?
GuySmiley wrote:In and out of retirement optimist
Big tragedy is the ME
What is your interest in the Jewish faith / people as a fundamental christian?
Is it what I proffered the other day about them renouncing Judaism on the last day as my good Jewish mate was telling me?
I can understand why Christian's would have an interest in Jews and Israel after all Jesus was a Jew and the Jewish people and their land play an important part in Christianity as does Jerusalem, its basically the centre of the universe for both faiths. (even Islam to some extent)
They obviously differ but they do share a lot in common my understanding is the old testament they share is pretty much the same Jews just dont believe in the new testament or importance of Jesus.
In regard to what your friend believes or says, ask either ten Jews, ten Christian, ten Muslims a question on something and you will get a whole range of different beliefs and answers based on denominations, interpretation or just level of faith and then there is different Jewish denominations like there is Christian denominations.
.
But the fact you dont understand the importance of most religious people believing their god is the only god and only way to some better after life or heaven or whatever, shows me you dont have much understanding of religion, if you believe any god or faith will do it kind of makes it all pointless.
They often pretend to agree on and preach the ‘thou shalt not kill’ bit…
- but nobody actually really adheres to it.
Got that part in common…
Interesting ;)
Jelly Flater wrote:They often pretend to agree on and preach the ‘thou shalt not kill’ bit…
- but nobody actually really adheres to it.Got that part in common…
Interesting ;)
Clearly you dont have much of an understanding or these religions either, cause even i know that's from the New testament that Jews dont believe in or follow, the old testament of which they believe in has "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" or something to those words though.
Have it cunts