Interesting stuff
southernraw wrote:sypkan wrote:whatever 'side' you take...
just like sep 11, it was one hell of an operation... admire is the wrong word, as is respect, but geez that took some planning and implementing... against all odds...
just read 260 people got gunned down at that music festival, what a come down! ...heavy...
clearly was a large part of the operation, with impact and brutality high priorities
from my perspective, hamas have just blown a lot of sympathy and support they possibly had from sectors of the west... a real "you're either with us or against us" moment...
and, $6bil to iran just days ago, biden is a fucking fool!
and, trump... the abraham accords... a different tact... unravelled with gusto... hmmmm...
Yep that's fucked.
An exgirlfriend of mine is from over there. In Tel Aviv.
She's a regular festival goer.
Was a heart in mouth few hours til i heard back from her last night.
She's ok. Scared though as you can imagine.
No winners in this situation.
So heavy.
Glad your friend is safe... a lot of people grieving right now.
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:How accurate is this picture ? Anyone know ?
Possibly accurate, but that is just a tiny snap shot of the history that goes back thousands of years.
As an example this is how things looked in the 9th century The Kingdom of Judah also belonged to the Jews, its a pretty complicated and complex history.
Indo making excuses again.
The Palestinians are in no way, guilt-free, but Israel has the weaponry and the power and has brutally suppressed the Palestinians for decades.
But then again, if you only read the Murdoch press, you probably wouldn’t be aware of that.
Today’s newspaper headlines show that very clearly.
Everyone seriously grieving except Jelly…. Women and children dead…music festival people slaughtered …dead naked Israeli women paraded through the streets by hamas….jelly, he thinks it’s great….pay back time for wanting to exist in a tiny part of a historical great country that existed many thousands of years before Islam was ever a thing …
I can’t believe the hatred for a people that just want to live peacefully and have done nothing wrong except exist in their own native land….
the muslims hate them…and they probably don’t even know why they hate them so much…
Israel’s homeland was a barren wasteland when they returned after ww2…nothing happening…..fix it all up….put in the hard work…plant all the trees ..build all the communities…fix all the water issues….and then everyone else wants the place….it ours the muslims say….never was …never will be….move on…
Haha ;)
- the resurrection of flopti !
Come on dowwwwwwnn ;);)
Great little sermon there, just void of facts…
I at no point have expressed hatred towards a side, nor glorified or condoned another. Get that straight flopti ;)
The events in israel are shocking.
The idea they ‘want to live peacefully and have done nothing wrong’ fits into the category of …interesting stuff.
We know your beliefs and your allegiance.
It’s also dangerous ground to start going on biblical theories…
This is no goodies vs baddies battle.
Two religiously fanatical ideologies (who claim to worship the same god), pitted in an unyielding conflict of territory. One part the supposed chosen people of god, the others warriors of god defending well …god ;)
A god whose adherents supposedly (in all abrahamic faiths) espouse love, peace, forgiveness, tolerance and compassion… however, it seems, both sides exhibit the very opposite.
Both threaten, both flex, both provoke, both justify attack as defence… both strike first, both strike in retaliation, both deceive and both create false narratives …in the name …of god.
Is this the behaviour of god like people ?
https://m.
&pp=ygUMQWxpIGcgcHJpZXN0
andy-mac wrote:Saying that though, why are the generally same people who continue on about the Jewish state's right to take other people's land, settlements etc arguing it goes back a few 1000 of years are the same group that are dismissive of our own indigenous people and their right to their land here that goes back tens of thousands of years?
Simplistic maybe but seems to be the case.
Yep but you can flip it the other way as the same people who jump on the Free Palestine thing are the same ones for pro indigenous land rights etc
I dont support Jews in Israel purely on the history but its also about how each side does things, Israel generally just tries to defend itself and if retaliating tries to abide by International law even giving warning so civilians can evacuate before striking a building Hamas are based in etc, while Hamas is the attacker and doesn't just try to target military but aim to kill civilians.
Also when you break it down to a Jew and Muslim thing, Jews have very limited places in the middle east to live and practice their faith while muslims have countess options in the middle east.
Optimist wrote:Everyone seriously grieving except Jelly…. Women and children dead…music festival people slaughtered …dead naked Israeli women paraded through the streets by hamas….jelly, he thinks it’s great….pay back time for wanting to exist in a tiny part of a historical great country that existed many thousands of years before Islam was ever a thing …
I can’t believe the hatred for a people that just want to live peacefully and have done nothing wrong except exist in their own native land….
the muslims hate them…and they probably don’t even know why they hate them so much…
Israel’s homeland was a barren wasteland when they returned after ww2…nothing happening…..fix it all up….put in the hard work…plant all the trees ..build all the communities…fix all the water issues….and then everyone else wants the place….it ours the muslims say….never was …never will be….move on…
Good to see you posting on this, im not religious but i fully agree with your views and support Israel.
Yeh go id !
Here’s a war song for u…
- even a bit of graffiti, it’ll be like back when u got all fully sick with a butterfly knife and shit ay
And flopti and you can even spread wings like an angel …together ;)
And bump and groove to free Palestine radio yay
https://m.
Optimist wrote:Everyone seriously grieving except Jelly…. Women and children dead…music festival people slaughtered …dead naked Israeli women paraded through the streets by hamas….jelly, he thinks it’s great….pay back time for wanting to exist in a tiny part of a historical great country that existed many thousands of years before Islam was ever a thing …
I can’t believe the hatred for a people that just want to live peacefully and have done nothing wrong except exist in their own native land….
the muslims hate them…and they probably don’t even know why they hate them so much…
Israel’s homeland was a barren wasteland when they returned after ww2…nothing happening…..fix it all up….put in the hard work…plant all the trees ..build all the communities…fix all the water issues….and then everyone else wants the place….it ours the muslims say….never was …never will be….move on…
You a Leon Uris fan Optimist???
Or are you just another ignoramus who thinks they're a Middle East specialist. Good story for Sunday School though.
“Israel generally just tries to defend itself and if retaliating tries to abide by International law”
Mate, you are one of the most ignorant, dull-witted gobshites that’s ever come down the road.
International law is out the window on this one - guaranteed. You can see it in Netanyahu's body language. Not that they abide by it anyway.
Out of interest -
“The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal on one of two bases: that they are in violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, or that they are in breach of international declarations.
The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the Israeli-occupied territories.”
Nothing will change when the west continues it's unchecked support of Israel while ignoring their transgressions.
‘as ye sow, so shall ye reap’
https://m.
That sure is some barren arsed wasteland!!!!
indo-dreaming wrote:AndyM wrote:“Israel generally just tries to defend itself and if retaliating tries to abide by International law”
Mate, you are one of the most ignorant, dull-witted gobshites that’s ever come down the road.Here you go again misquoting me again, you are a low life piece of terrorist loving trash.
Here is what i said
indo-dreaming wrote:Israel generally just tries to defend itself and if retaliating tries to abide by International law even giving warning so civilians can evacuate before striking a building Hamas are based in etc, while Hamas is the attacker and doesn't just try to target military but aim to kill civilians..
This is NOT my opinion i made up its a point made by those who know and understand the issue far better than us, go listen to any reputable podcast on the issue.
But yeah like garyg1412 said many dont expect Israel to stick to International law this time, they are going to hit back ten times harder in any which way they feel they need too, and they should too.
you need to google occupied territory...
there is no abiding of 'international law' from the get go
none whatsoever
2:50 min mark.
- quite the explanation ;)
‘I don’t have to invent a reasoning bigger than …the bible’
- some old blokes promised this to us… ummm… and it’s ours… forever.
Sounds real reasonable.
Or… um… maybe just an unreasonable invention ;)
https://m.
Israel is far from squeaky clean when it comes to the rules of engagement, The vid below, from about a year or so ago, questions many claims from Israel about some of their retaliatory strikes and the justification for them.
I also condemn the actions of Hamas and any celebration of it here in Oz. A lot of innocent children have and will die on both sides over this never-ending saga. Sickening.
Indo I condemn Hamas attacks on civilians.
I also condemn the Israeli policy of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, the occupation of Palestinian land and the periodic perpetration of State sanctioned violence.
If you can’t see two sides to the story well that just says it all about you and your right wing ideologies.
@Sypkan "you need to google occupied territory...
there is no abiding of 'international law' from the get go
none whatsoever"
No need for that, Indo is an "expert".
His mastermind subject is "everything".
If you quote his exact words he will tell you you are misquoting him.
His exact words.
Then he will accuse you of being " a low life piece of terrorist loving trash".
Indo says " Israel generally just tries to defend itself and if retaliating tries to abide by International law"
Andy M says Indo said " Israel generally just tries to defend itself and if retaliating tries to abide by International law"
But apparently that is misquoting him.
Google 'fuckwit' mate.
More appropriate.
The Hamas charter. Sobering reading.
"Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims."
Fk religion.
http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html
Hmmmm....all will be well under the "shadow of Islam".
"The Hamas is a Humane Movement
Article Thirty-One
Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts.
Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam, and recent and ancient history is the best witness to that effect. The members of other religions must desist from struggling against Islam over sovereignty in this region. For if they were to gain the upper hand, fighting, torture and uprooting would follow; they would be fed up with each other, to say nothing of members of other religions. The past and the present are full of evidence to that effect."
I just feel sorry for the innocent Palestinian and Israeli civilians caught up in this bullshit.
Southernraw, thanks for posting that - was an interesting but depressing read.
Thanks for posting the Hamas charter southern.
You can see why it’s a no win for Israel in dealing with that mindset. …
Israel is about 400 kms long and 100 at its widest….and they were there over 3000 years before Islam ever existed.
Surely they can be left alone to grow in a small percentage of their original country without the world barking at them to share with people that hate them when there are massive Islamic countries to absorb the like minded displaced people.
The Arabs Leaving them in that region to suffer instead of absorbing them into their countries is a deliberate move to harass Israel and use them as others do in this corrupt world to have a proxy war using other people’s bodies to fight their so called anti Islam enemies instead of their own.
Israel has the right to exist and grow….as does anyone else……islamists too but on the right turf that suits their likeminded mindset….everyone leave everyone alone.
The bigger picture?
https://apple.news/A-REyPvWDRcyfjxgXy7QbWw
sypkan wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:AndyM wrote:“Israel generally just tries to defend itself and if retaliating tries to abide by International law”
Mate, you are one of the most ignorant, dull-witted gobshites that’s ever come down the road.Here you go again misquoting me again, you are a low life piece of terrorist loving trash.
Here is what i said
indo-dreaming wrote:Israel generally just tries to defend itself and if retaliating tries to abide by International law even giving warning so civilians can evacuate before striking a building Hamas are based in etc, while Hamas is the attacker and doesn't just try to target military but aim to kill civilians..
This is NOT my opinion i made up its a point made by those who know and understand the issue far better than us, go listen to any reputable podcast on the issue.
But yeah like garyg1412 said many dont expect Israel to stick to International law this time, they are going to hit back ten times harder in any which way they feel they need too, and they should too.
you need to google occupied territory...
there is no abiding of 'international law' from the get go
none whatsoever
The comment was in regard to retaliation and defence.
Israel does its best to to prevent missiles reaching it, it even has the iron dome, in normal times even if it retaliates it does things like literally giving an hours warning so civilians can get out of the building that Hamas are based in and only based there because they are trying to use civilians as a human shields.
Israel only attack's after being attacked and the aim of Israel is to avoid killing civilians and target Hamas only, Hamas is the total opposite, their aim is to kill anyone they can military and civilians with no warning ideally a surprise attack.
However in times like this its unrealistic to expect Israel to abide by any rules when Hamas arent and use civilians as human shields, Israel will have to do whats needed, otherwise this will happen again
In regard to occupation again here is the historic map, that goes back thousand's of years.
Meanwhile Palestine was only created in 1948
Yeah sure Gaza didnt historically belong to Israel, but they currently dont occupy it, but lets be real they might need to re occupy it and regain control and rid Hamas otherwise you will get what happened again and again.
BTW. to put it simply its been said "If Palestine but down their guns there would be peace, if Israel put down their guns there would no Israel or Isralei's"
@ID,
Hard to get unfiltered info either way, however back in 2007 my old man did a series of stints working on the West Bank. First night was woken at 2am by IDF F15s breaking the sonic boom overhead. That continued for five nights in a row, and then again a few weeks afterwards.
Not one word of it was written in the international press. It was a rolling torment, a continuing attempt to demoralise the Palestinians or have them react.
Also, movement around the West Bank is controlled by Israel and prone to all manner of abuses. At times the old boy couldn't get back to his hotel and would have to stay elsewhere because checkpoints soldiers would simply shut things down with no excuse given. Being an expat made no difference (and in some instances made it worse).
Again, a reminder to the Palestinians that they're under permanent Israeli control.
It's a massively complex issue, but to say Israel plays by all the rules is a skewed view.
Yep its a complex issue going back a very long time that i doubt any of us will truly completely understand, but like i pointed out in regards to attacks or defence how each side goes about things it's chalk and cheese.
Anyway i have my view others have theirs, but i stand and support Israel and the Jewish people and im glad that most western governments do too.
One of the most ridiculous issues for an outsider to have a strong opinion on, indo. Unreal you're adding it to your quiver.
basesix wrote:One of the most ridiculous issues for an outsider to have a strong opinion on, indo. Unreal you're adding it to your quiver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLvvBLvyvxI&t=3s
Remember watching that years ago. The Jewish guy., I am sure he is originally from Melbourne but lived on Gold Coast for a while. I worked with him at one of the Goldie 5 star hotels and he has to be one of the biggest arseholes I have ever met. Spoilt fuckwit whose dad owned a lot of property in Melbourne, treating staff and co-workers with total arrogance and was condescending to all.
Anyway if it is the guy, what is he doing in Israel taking land if he is an Australian?
Hardly running away from persecution.
Edit: yep it's him.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/60-minutes-israel-palestine-holy-real-...
indo-dreaming wrote:Yep its a complex issue going back a very long time that i doubt any of us will truly completely understand, but like i pointed out in regards to attacks or defence how each side goes about things it's chalk and cheese.
Anyway i have my view others have theirs, but i stand and support Israel and the Jewish people and im glad that most western governments do too.
You’re a troll on a roll Indo. Uneducated, wilfully ignorant and relentlessly stupid. But still highly opinionated on everything.
You go guuuurl!
I think you can almost see indo's justifications... almost...
I think one say the occupied territories are almost justified too... almost...
the spoils of war, creating a buffer zone etc. etc.
but when israelis settle in these zones, using tanks and bulldozers and shit, to oust occupants, and do a blatant land grab purely due to religious zealot-ery...
well, it's a step too far
especially as the UN defines it as 'illegal' ...that is international law...
as someone said above, until world leaders call this out, little will change
if someone pushed out my family and built shit in its place, purely justified by religious nuttery... I'd be throwing rocks and shit too...
you probably would as well indod
granted gunning down civilians and blowing them up is s step too far
but yeh, put yourself in their shoes
sypkan wrote:I think you can almost see indo's justifications... almost...
I think one say the occupied territories are almost justified too... almost...
the spoils of war, creating a buffer zone etc. etc.
but when israelis settle in these zones, using tanks and bulldozers and shit, to oust occupants, and do a blatant land grab purely due to religious zealot-ery...
well, it's a step too far
especially as the UN defines it as 'illegal' ...that is international law...
as someone said above, until world leaders call this out, little will change
if someone pushed out my family and built shit in its place, purely justified by religious nuttery... I'd be throwing rocks and shit too...
you probably would as well indod
granted gunning down civilians and blowing them up is s step too far
but yeh, put yourself in their shoes
Its a tragic shitshow.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/09/war-netanyahu-liab...
https://m.
&pp=ygUTdGVycml0b3J5IHNlcHVsdHVyYQ%3D%3D https://m.
https://m.
&pp=ygUpRmVtYWxlIHBhbGVzdGluaWFuIGpvdXJuYWxpc3Qgc2hvdCBieSBpZGY%3D soggydog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Yep its a complex issue going back a very long time that i doubt any of us will truly completely understand, but like i pointed out in regards to attacks or defence how each side goes about things it's chalk and cheese.
Anyway i have my view others have theirs, but i stand and support Israel and the Jewish people and im glad that most western governments do too.
You’re a troll on a roll Indo. Uneducated, wilfully ignorant and relentlessly stupid. But still highly opinionated on everything.
You go guuuurl!
Having an opinion that you dont like doesn't equal being a troll, a troll is someone like you that doesn't have any interest in the topic of discussion and doesn't add anything to the conversation but just post crap like memes to stir up shit or just throw out personal abuse, generally because they dont like hearing views that dont align with their own.
Look you’re all wrong; off course @info is going to support Israel given its ultra far right government. That’s all that matters.
Please don't tell me there are any Hamas apologists here.
Fucken hell!
Hamas, no. The Palestinian population as a whole deserve some compassion though, they're the ones caught in the middle of it all and have been for decades
GuySmiley wrote:Look you’re all wrong; off course @info is going to support Israel given its ultra far right government. That’s all that matters.
Ha ha yeah because Hamas are progressive and left wing
But yeah seeing you are very anti Christian id expect you are anti Jewish too, so id not be surprised at all if you hold anti semitic views.
I didnt really have much of a view on things until a few years back when i hung out with some Israeli surfers* in Indo and heard their views and stories and then went back and listened to some podcast on the history etc
I dont pretend to understand it all its super complex but yeah i know where my support is.
* Yes they have waves even had photos of pretty decent looking hollow waves.
Sympathetic to families of deceased, the Palestinian people and those living under the apartheid policies of an occupying force.
indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:Look you’re all wrong; off course @info is going to support Israel given its ultra far right government. That’s all that matters.
Ha ha yeah because Hamas are progressive and left wing
But yeah seeing you are very anti Christian id expect you are anti Jewish too, so id not be surprised at all if you hold anti semitic views.
I didnt really have much of a view on things until a few years back when i hung out with some Israeli surfers* in Indo and heard their views and stories and then went back and listened to some podcast on the history etc
I dont pretend to understand it all its super complex but yeah i know where my support is.
* Yes they have waves even had photos of pretty decent looking hollow waves.
There’s Palestinian surfers too on the Gaza Strip. Wonder what there stories are? You probably won’t meet one travelling.
#balancedviews
Edit.. I can’t believe I just did a hashtag thingy. Fuck me what have I become
Front page bump
soggydog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:Look you’re all wrong; off course @info is going to support Israel given its ultra far right government. That’s all that matters.
Ha ha yeah because Hamas are progressive and left wing
But yeah seeing you are very anti Christian id expect you are anti Jewish too, so id not be surprised at all if you hold anti semitic views.
I didnt really have much of a view on things until a few years back when i hung out with some Israeli surfers* in Indo and heard their views and stories and then went back and listened to some podcast on the history etc
I dont pretend to understand it all its super complex but yeah i know where my support is.
* Yes they have waves even had photos of pretty decent looking hollow waves.
There’s Palestinian surfers too on the Gaza Strip. Wonder what there stories are? You probably won’t meet one travelling.
Beat me to it.
Was going to ask if he’d ever met a travelling Palestinian surfer and if not, if he’d considered why not.
I mean when you think about it, the situation with Palestinians and Australian aboriginals are quite similar really.
If they chose to, they could both rise up and get an education, better themselves, and leave their circumstances behind.
Because, after all, the closer they are to their culture, the more violent they are.
Right Indo?
Fliplid wrote:Hamas, no. The Palestinian population as a whole deserve some compassion though, they're the ones caught in the middle of it all and have been for decades
+1 to that @Fliplid.
From what i can understand, and my understanding is very base level, is that Hamas, as a dominant power have strengthened inside Gaza, mostly unchallenged due to the restrictions placed on Palestine over the last couple of years in particular.
Hamas seems now to be the ruling power in Palestine, resulting in Palestinian normal Joes and Jennys to accept it or be damned/dead?
That strengthening seems to have led to a much more sophisticated outfit and that would explain why the surprise element was a part of what caught Israel out.
I get the feeling that if Israel didn't exist, and there were no Jews there, that Hamas would spread it's tentacles out from that part of the world and try to achieve the same outcomes that are set out in their charter in other areas regardless..
It's a religious war that has no bounds until the world is under the rule of Islam.(and their particular extreme version of Islam)
And i'm not letting Israel off the hook re. their treatment of Palestinians, i just get the read that Hamas is a separate thing that has it's hatred towards Israel based in the fact they're Jews and should be all dead, no ifs, no buts. And the fact they're so accessible just makes it all the more possible.
That is my dodgy take on it anyway, and i'm probably well wrong so feel free to right me.
Just to note, I remember asking my ex about her thoughts on Benjamin Netinyahu, back in 2014 when we were together. She said her, and all her friends, young crew couldn't stand him and wanted him out. So the average citizen of Israel isn't necessarily in line with the political decisions being made there.
But somehow he endures.
southernraw wrote:Fliplid wrote:Hamas, no. The Palestinian population as a whole deserve some compassion though, they're the ones caught in the middle of it all and have been for decades
+1 to that @Fliplid.
From what i can understand, and my understanding is very base level, is that Hamas, as a dominant power have strengthened inside Gaza, mostly unchallenged due to the restrictions placed on Palestine over the last couple of years in particular.
Hamas seems now to be the ruling power in Palestine, resulting in Palestinian normal Joes and Jennys to accept it or be damned/dead?
That strengthening seems to have led to a much more sophisticated outfit and that would explain why the surprise element was a part of what caught Israel out.
I get the feeling that if Israel didn't exist, and there were no Jews there, that Hamas would spread it's tentacles out from that part of the world and try to achieve the same outcomes that are set out in their charter in other areas regardless..
It's a religious war that has no bounds until the world is under the rule of Islam.(and their particular extreme version of Islam)
And i'm not letting Israel off the hook re. their treatment of Palestinians, i just get the read that Hamas is a separate thing that has it's hatred towards Israel based in the fact they're Jews and should be all dead, no ifs, no buts. And the fact they're so accessible just makes it all the more possible.
That is my dodgy take on it anyway, and i'm probably well wrong so feel free to right me.
Just to note, I remember asking my ex about her thoughts on Benjamin Netinyahu, back in 2014 when we were together. She said her, and all her friends, young crew couldn't stand him and wanted him out. So the average citizen of Israel isn't necessarily in line with the political decisions being made there.
But somehow he endures.
No doubt Hamas are a bunch of evil fucks.... horrible situation.
Peace in the holy land possible ever?
Below is timeline I was reading. Please correct if inaccurate, but give reasons and it goes back a long time.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/whats-the-israel-palestine-conf...
indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:Look you’re all wrong; off course @info is going to support Israel given its ultra far right government. That’s all that matters.
Ha ha yeah because Hamas are progressive and left wing
But yeah seeing you are very anti Christian id expect you are anti Jewish too, so id not be surprised at all if you hold anti semitic views.
I didnt really have much of a view on things until a few years back when i hung out with some Israeli surfers* in Indo and heard their views and stories and then went back and listened to some podcast on the history etc
I dont pretend to understand it all its super complex but yeah i know where my support is.
* Yes they have waves even had photos of pretty decent looking hollow waves.
Although I have Jewish and Arab friends the little I know is enough to know I know jackshit about the ME but carry on knowitall
Have it cunts