Interesting stuff

I was thinking down the lines of using a genetic / evolutionary algorithm to generate designs then evaluate the fitness of these designs using CFD. Biggest issues I see with it are deciding under what circumstances you want to run the CFD on the design, and the computational power required to do this is almost certainly prohibitive (I haven't experimented with CFD before, but I imagine it is not quick to perform an analysis and the evolutionary algorithm would be terrible inefficient).

"I did a bit of research into the history of board design as part of it too, and it seemed that yeah, good boards bred copies, but so did competitively successful boards, perhaps more so, whether "good" or not. Designs that contests were won on tended to sell better."

totally agree with that Pops.

birdfood, yeah, that'd be the end game, but with current pc tech your only chance do that kind of work in any reasonable timeframe would be to have a cluster of say a couple of dozen of pc's running in parallel.

For reference, five or so years ago it was taking two weeks for a state-of-the-art pc to run one dynamic (ie time-evolving) simulation for me. I'm no expert on optimisation algorithms, but at a guess you'd need hundreds or thousands of simulations to get convergence?

Might be a decade or more before that's acheivable without university-type resources.

(blowin - sorry if this is thread-hijacking. Should I move it over to the shaping bay?)

wonder how many Ghosts were purchased off the back of that.

sure sucked me in.

Blowin did you get your Ghost sorted ? or sold ?

Blowin we know you just keyword search the forums for “China” references then unload... ;-)

(Or VL, or BB)

Slater on a new webber model and ripping the bag....whoa

https://stabmag.com/hardware/watch-kelly-slater-on-a-5-fin-board-then-re...

I kinda find it hard to understand why Kelly would choose to stay locked down on the GC. Surely he's got a few apartments around the place and some of those would have to have more consistent swell than here, and less crowds. Anyway, the board looks cool. Stringlerless EPS? It's amazing how smooth the surface of it is if that what it is.

Pops, definitely keen to keep the conversation going. I haven't found someone to bounce these ideas off before. Perhaps moving to shaping bay is a good idea, that sub needs more stuff in it I reckon. Sounds like you got to do a really interesting thesis. Was this undergrad or masters or phd?

Seeing a more and more of Pyzel Paddilacs in the carpark at margs and ramp these days, but must be Duns factory computer pop outs rather than the real thing, terrible glass and worse sanding jobs, mostly ridden by first time visitors on their "big wave" debut, point being the dream being sold through a board model

Oz Currency (dead)...Banks / Councils / Govt / Supermarket /Transit (Cash Ban)

PM: "Covid-19 Amazonian shoppers have out-polled Grandma's Xmas account!"

[Today News]
PM: Due to Corona-bonanza in our boss's shop, we can't spare Posties for Gran.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-21/severe-delays-in-australia-post-s...
Mail deliveries have halved to every 2nd day in the bigger Ghost towns.
Note: This may reduce City Transactions to Tuesday & Thursday Only.
Largest business stall ever is surely the lousiest recovery plan in history!
(Post No Letters or Cards Thanks)

K9 News: [ BEWARE THE DOG ] Sticker Sales halve overnight!

( Shiny Express Parcels - 3 day virus life) vs ( Paper Envelope -1 day virus life)
PM essentially spreads 3x the virus over OZ while halving the safest deliveries?
Claims the halving of essential service is a Corona led recovery & (Media buy it?)

PM: "Buy more useless shit from Amazon & FFS get Gran's fingerprint on the app!"
https://insideretail.com.au/news/australia-post-allocates-more-resources...

Isolated Elderly will miss out on more celebration.(Nope! Sorry! No Card for Gran!)
What do yer mean yer Bills overdue again Gran...another penalty payment for Gran!
Gran can't look out for herself...better put her in the home! Just press the app Gran!

Relay untold cut bus routes to underground pawnbroker grocer to self pack XL stash.
No Outpatient / Dental appointments + Don't dare frolic about in self therapy pool.
Sorry Gran! Were all outta Aspro again!

Greatest case of Elder Abuse in Oz History & Media are in prayer session with PM!
"Hey! Just be careful what you say about our glorious Leader's shit hot recovery!"

PM :" My boss Bezos' now scores 2000 free slaves from Grandma's old round."

New beaut AmOZon Post Service delivery times...
Amazon Spy decoder ring...(New same morning free service + free Spy balloons)
Covid -19 Vaccination from crosstown Brisbane ... Postie says: 2021 at the earliest!

{#} To the former Home Owner.
Dear Grandma, will you just click- [ The devil owns yer soul app ]
Yours Sincerely Oz PM. Jeff Bezos.
PS: Includes free AWS 2021 Census Form...only slightly coloured in.

Pops et al, great discussion. Thanks for the tips in the past, I've managed to be able to run simple 2d flow simulations from my laptop, it's pretty crude but quite fun.

& here's some required reading for Blowin:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/China-Is-Waging-A-New-Kind-Of...

Written by a historian with a senior editorial position in the Defence space, this is a must read, and understand.

"Pops, definitely keen to keep the conversation going. I haven't found someone to bounce these ideas off before. Perhaps moving to shaping bay is a good idea, that sub needs more stuff in it I reckon. Sounds like you got to do a really interesting thesis. Was this undergrad or masters or phd?"

Honours thesis. Had a lot of fun doing it, and got a damn good mark too. Supervisor wanted me to continue on to a PhD with it, but things had started getting pretty serious with the missus so felt like I needed to get a real job and earn some coin... One of those trousers-of-time moments. I'll get back into it one day once pc's are fast enough.

I think there'd be value in using the techniques I developed in board design, given so many shapers are using CAD now. E.g. in tweaking a template, you could test exactly what the tweak does against the original. Would any shapers on here find something like that helpful?

VJ, good stuff! There is a little bit of value you can get out of a 2D sim; e.g. looking at how stringer line rocker profile changes friction, pressure, etc along the stringer line at given trim angles. Overly simplified of course, but interesting.

VJ, what software did you use?

Pops, I've been thinking about a similar workflow. I'm haphazardly playing with fins (cut some over a year ago then moved and haven't progressed). I've got a hobby CNC and I'm slowly trying to get the CAD -> physical object workflow going. Being a software engineer / total numpty when it comes to manual labour I'm finding the really basic stuff like how to hold the stock to the bed (or how to accurately flip the stock to cut double sided foils!) to be the real challenge. I love the idea of going Design -> Manufacture -> Surf -> Tweak and Repeat. If only I had unlimited time and funds. I've made a few of my own boards but the costs are pretty high to be able to justify making more than a couple a year.

Sounds like an awesome honours thesis. Did you get to surf any of your designs, or do physical experiments to validate your simulations?

Yeah, part of it was surfing a bunch of different shapes to "sanity check" the simulation results. My current small-wave slop board is pretty much entirely based on the thesis results too (attempting to maximise wetted surface (planing) area at common trim & bank angles, without going so wide as to make it impossible to set a rail, and minimise parasitic drag, i.e. getting as much lift and speed plus planing at as low velocities as practical).

My mates doing theses in more traditional areas were pretty jealous that I could pass off surfing as research.

Unlimited time and funds would be nice, wouldn't it!
But then again, in that case I'd probably just nick off somewhere quiet and just surf...

You might find this interesting birdfood ....and Pops.
https://www.swellnet.com/news/talking-heads/2019/06/04/fin-land-greg-tro...

Pops at what width did you find the limit?

I hope you're right Blowin.

Lets use this as a baseline: 520 grand will get you an old weatherboard cottage in Ballina.
https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-ballina-133133278

What do you reckon this will be worth in 6? 12? months time?

I focus, that part depends on physiological factors - how tall you are, how big your foot is, your stance, etc - so a little outside of the scope of the simulations I was doing; that part was more an experience-based check on the "more width (in the right places) is more good (for small waves)" conclusion. An interesting thing I did look at a little there was rail lines though - how sharply you could pull the rail back from the wide point towards the back foot without creating too much drag, that kind of stuff. I was mostly interested in small-wave designs at the time because it seemed that most people surf shitty waves most of the time, and most designs go OK enough in good waves.

FR, me too... who knows, maybe my generation will be able to buy into their local areas after all.

Hi Pops,
I used this
http://flowsquare.com/
Still learning it. I found some better stuff in 3d but that will take a bit more time and learning - and it should be able to model much more.

This is really good: a visual based explanation of how the May oil futures WTI contract got to -$40.32 earlier in the week. Lots of pictures for the powerpoint crowd:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/subzero-oil-price-crash-covid-19/

Hey VJ, I'm interested to hear your take on the $94 mil just spent by the Australian government to store a strategic reserve of oil in the USA.

Good deal for the USA! Strange concept to have our 90 day store of fuel 5000km away though, not exactly on hand is it?

It would be better to have it here, iirc it was 120 or 180 mil or something to build tanks. Better still would be a bit there, and most here. With it in the States they can buy some quickly now at tempting low, low prices, given our infrastructure for storing it is maybe not as manifest as it should be, and assume the sea lane will be open Panama-Pearl-Fiji-Aus (roughly).

Last time they made an effort to keep the sea lanes open:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/USS_Lexington_%28CV-...

Next wildcard is Australian production: that's usually said to be light sweet crude, can it be repurposed as an emergency? Can we repurpose our enormous amounts of LNG into a CNG able to be run in diesel engines, and keep the transport fleet (and 4wd drive adventure youtube channels) running? Those are immediate fixes that can be run in the transport fleet we already have. There are also ethanol plants too.

but yeah, best to have real things in possession.

Edit: given supply shock/demand shock glut at present, maybe they are looking beyond this?

Thanks Cromwell, sounds like a pretty idillic career situation! That shot of the fins in the stock does not give anything away about machining both sides. I'm thinking it comes down to having a good jig.

VJ, I'd like to see the boards you've made (think I read you have). The shaping bay sub is definitely missing a thread on home made boards, I might try to kick one off.

We should be building storage tanks as quickly as we can and getting to our minimum stockpile while the prices are so low.

"Storing our emergency fuel in the USA is the same as storing your first aid kit at the hospital."

does sound a little stupid, ridiculously stupid actually, but I reckon its pretty safe to say there's much more going on here than bargain basement oil prices

much more than just fuel security even...

how fucking desperate are the democrats?

biden... desperate desperate

biden trying to out hawk trump on china... ridiculously desperate desperate

especially considering all the 'china good/trump's racist'' crap they were all pushing just a few weeks ago...

biden is china's bitch, has been for a long time, his son's on the china payroll, and now he thinks he can tough talk china his way to election

he's gone all anti-woke

good to see the democrats have sound principles they've built there whole schtick upon...

hello 4 more years of trump

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/futility-bidens-china-...

VJ, when you think you're ready to move onto 3D models, might be worth checking out OpenFoam. I haven't used it myself, but heard it's pretty powerful and full-featured for an open-source bit of kit.
https://openfoam.org/

it appears the three gorges dam wall is cracking... little 'truths' springing up everywhere now...

anyone for a cornea?

that's cornea, not corona...

https://m.

Probably just hot air Blowin

Keep surfing fellas.

That would explain the trend of lower rates in tropical climates, even places with higher rates in tropical areas could be spreading
faster in air con environments.

....so funny how this corona narrative is developing....

the stuff I read in developing countries have been suggesting stuff like this for months, about heat and climate etc.. bloggers saying put your bed clothes out in the sun, facemasks hanging in the sun, wash your hands with super hot water, hairdryer up your snozzer etc. etc.

and obviously facemasks!

myanmar, indo, etc. people wearing masks, there are government rules for must wear outside in bali

yet here in oz we're still debating the absolute basics, mask versus no mask, etc. and the uk, us, are the same

it makes no sense,.governments are just covering up for the misinformation they've been spreading for months/years I reckon

doctors and nurses wear masks, must wear masks! it obviously does something, common sense really (oh no he went there...) ...yet we are told there's 'no benefit', 'research inconclusive', blah blah blah..... its all pretty bloody pathetic, and it starts with the who

they've just discouraged masks because they have all fucked up with their 'free trade' ideology bullshit and now they cannot source them so need to ration them out

It really is quite embarrassing the public are so confused, they seem so dumb, but to be fair, if you only get your news from the regular legacy sources you are way way behind the curve, and it shows, we've all been mislead

but nah, the accepted narrative... "its all conspiracy"

this shit is just like clinton emails all over again...

the all in globalists crying conspiracy, when really they are the ones perpetuating the actual conspiracy

but, having said that, ecquador raises some serious questions, but so does india in the opposite direction

but, there sure seems to be something about heat/climate/uv going on...

Hi Birdfood, there's a thread on midlengths where Craig or Ben was able to post a few midlength boards that I'd done, along with a description of the boards, if you can find it. It's not all midlengths though, I began shaping in the early 1990s as a reaction to how thin boards were (wanted a new single fin, everyone laughed at me) - so I taught myself from there. My early boards were all about creating that rail length to drive distances at speed, and include the volume and a bit of nose width for stability and ease getting in. In the recent decade volume has been incorporated into mainstream shapes which feature all the good bits like concaves and domed decks, so performance has never been so accessible for Joe Sixpack. Over the years there were bits of machinery I invented (no pics, no internet guidelines) that work well, best $400 I ever spent! I was taught to glass/sand/gloss, but once the health stuff happened I backed away from that chemical aspect of it.
I'm blessed that mates kept asking for something "more modern" and I've learned to tailor volume, rails, thickness within certain types of board to individual surfers, wave types, which is where the magic is tbh. In later years, I've been focussing on health, but have managed to begin wood boards, with a fantastic result with my young one. That's probably where the future is, even though it's about 4x the time. We must reach a stage where what we throw out, or what has been used, can become part of nature again without complication. And we must make it in a way that doesn't put our health at risk. Recovering from illness I got into CAD and have some pretty schweet fin designs waiting to go, 3d printing them has been fun, and flow testing will be funner. If there's one thing I've added to the world, it's what I call a 'tail apex rocker' but that's another story entirely, probably my favourite board type. And in the world of shaping, someone probably did it before, somewhere!
Lockdown is being used to set up moar production capability.

Hi Pops, cheers for the Openfoam link, I have it stored on favourites and it is going to be the 'next level' after I master 2d. I see that the Flowsquare guys have released a 3d version of their software as well. I did want to set up a testing tank lane in the front garden with fins attached to a powered overhead runner, (tank testing with beers), but the Ms thought not too highly of my 'water feature' idea. Some of the old naval architects and tank testing of hulls were amazing.

Sypkan - "does sound a little stupid, ridiculously stupid actually, but I reckon its pretty safe to say there's much more going on here than bargain basement oil prices much more than just fuel security even..."

Yep. This morning's reading included a real eye opener. Yes the story comes from a viewpoint (the author, I'd say he's US establishment?), but it hints at the chaos throughout the world the current oil pricing is about to create:

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/oil-storm-really-big-storm

More interesting stuff, the airline chaos:

So a question for CRAIG or BEN:

We know that in the week after September 11, 2001, airlines were grounded in the US. It was reported in this time that stratospheric temperatures rose alarmingly in this time over CONUS, if I recall. With the mass groundings going on now, what are stratospheric temps doing?

Here it is..

https://www.swellnet.com/forums/shaping-bay/332288

And will have to look at that VJ. Got an interesting story for you as well re some cloud developments here yesterday.

Genetics may play a part. Different populations have different genetic compositions. If, for example, one variation which produces a protein on the surface of epithelial tissue in the lungs making cells resistant to infection, is in higher concentration in a population, infection rates could be much lower. I have seen this suggested with very limited supporting evidence.

...that sounds a lot like you're talking about...

nah couldn't be

How Corona virus and Kobe Bryant are weirdly related / Joey Diaz Sam Tripoli
you tube. 10 min watch

Jim Banks would like this one

Blowin. I don't reckon the initial Chinese interaction with developing countries was as extensive as the developed countries like Italy, Spain, USA, etc. I reckon the tourism factor is what spread this so extensively in the developed countries so early and so quickly. Once it gets a foothold in Africa, India, Indo, etc the statistics are going to become interesting. Then again I might be wrong and the alternative explanation would become interesting as well.