The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
The Arabs used to have the best Naval Fleets .
Hamas had a navy with Rubber Ducky things and a few frog men .
Somalian Pirates and Yemen are another thing .
I saw a clip on this .
4 tiny speed boats tried to board a Euro Ship who put out two distress calls .
The Ship was unable to fight them off and a speed boat got within 20 meters of them .
A US Captain thought , Stuff Washington , I am going to their rescue .
Apparently they told the 4 speed boats to F Off .
Guess what , the 4 speed boat’s started firing at the US Ship .
Guess what .
Captain said ok and took out 3 with one escape ,
These Pirates are a big problem , almost suicidal .
A lot of oil flows through this choke point .
Edit
This US Captain, if he survives Washington , has set a Precedent for other US Captains to follow in the Red Sea .
Iran is furious and will be calling for Muslim outrage Worldwide .
Good article RK
I dont think Israel can do much right now but fight the war though, surely Netanyahu gets the arse next election and a more moderate government can do the tweaking needed moving forward.
adam12 wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Anyway good news this morning, a key Hamas figure assassinated in Beirut, and another key leader in Gaza was killed the other day (second vid below)
Good to see things now seem to be going into a more targeted mode, there has also been some withdraw of IDF troops from North Gaza in recent days and shuffling of things that seems to indicate a shift in stages of the war to perhaps a more targeted approach, that hopefully take's pressure off IDF and allow them to get the job completed.
Hopefully they can also take out Sinwar they seem to be hot on his heels just missed him a few times apparently .
And yes leaders can be replaced, but you still need to take them out, who ever steps up next needs to know they risk also losing their life's.
Yes Indo, all that.
And before you accuse me of being Hamas lover number whatever, I remind you I have no side to take here, just a couple of observations.
Isn't it interesting that they can take out one guy with pinpoint accuracy in another state whilst "accidentally" killing so many civilians in Gaza trying to do the same thing, and having to carpet bomb civilian neighborhoods and infrastructure to do it.
Isn't it interesting that Israel can bomb four other states and still be perceived as the victim.
Hamas are a blight on their people, peace in the ME, and the Muslim and wider world.
But they aren't alone there.
I havent double checked this but quickly absorbed a few news sources on it this morning, I believe five others were killed in the process, no idea who the others were if Hamas or civilians or whatever.
The reality is it's just how it goes sometimes especially in these types of countries, i expect they are chasing many of these figures and trying to hunt them down, i expect there could be times where they get a tip off of where the suspect becomes in an area that is not out of reach and they then pounce.
This might have been the only opportunity they had, or who knows they might have already hit the pause button a number of times to avoid other deaths and then had to make the call, and maybe if they didn't strike now they might not get the opportunity again for who knows how long..
No matter anyones views on any of this the reality is its impossible to take out Hamas and their infrastructure without civilian deaths, and the only way to realistic minimise them is to get people out of the war zone as Israel has tried to do.
Hamas knows its impossible for IDF to not kill civilian's, that thats why they choose this strategy, they win either way, if IDF dont hit the target they survive if they do it works in favour of their propaganda campaign against Israel and even gains them support.
You can choose not to buy the human shield strategy but you are ignoring shitloads of evidence, pretty much every week there is new footage of tunnel entrances within or right next too mosque, schools, hospitals, parks, refugee areas you name it and all kinds of other military infrastructure inter woven among civilian areas, and all kinds of weapons etc found in homes.
And Hamas rarely if ever shot rockets from unpopulated areas outside of built up areas, they purposely do it from civilian areas, in the knowledge if IDF hit back at these locations, now Hamas are launching rocket's from the safe zones, when these area historically didn't see rockets launched from these areas, they do it purposely because they are using civilians as human shield's.
If Hamas didn't use this strategy and only had their tunnels, bases, rocket stores and launching areas on the edge of town or unpopulated areas, this war would be over within a week, so while its a pretty evil strategy it's still a smart one.
adam12 wrote:.
I think the human shield argument is flawed and is just cover for Israels real intent which is to pave the way for Israeli settler neighborhoods to be constructed in Gaza.
Time will tell.
Missed this bit.
Why would they give Gaza to Palestine in 2005 if that was the aim?
Israel doesn't want Gaza it would be a complete nightmare to govern with no real benefit its not large in area the resources aren't that great, Israel has access to more than enough gas and imagine trying to live there as a Jew it would be a night mare.
Possibly some of the reason in being so generous to hand it over was because of the headache factor but also politically, giving it over to Palestine instantly reduced the Arab/muslim vote (Yes they can vote its not a very good apartheid state )
Never going to happen but id be betting Israel's dream would be for Egypt to have it back and actually try to control the radical's there, but i doubt Egypt would want it again anyway and to deal with it's issues, especially with Egypt's history of things
The West Bank and Gaza are completely different issues and circumstances.
Gaza doesn't have any real significance to Israel or Jews historically or culturally, while the West Bank is the total opposite its an area of much Jewish/Israel significance historically and culturally.
BTW. When they did give Gaza back in 2005 and thousands of Jews had to move out leaving homes and business including miles of Green Houses(that Hamas then destroyed in crazy spite or something ), the IDF actually had to physically force many to move and the people even dug up buried Jewish graves to take their bodies back to Israel.
@Indo,
OK, we see things differently.
I'm a bit exhausted and this whole thing is ...well...exhausting, circular and a bit depressing.
I'm spending too much time here and not doing the things I planned this week. But anyway...
I'll tell you what I think Israel should have done following Oct. 7, but first some wisdom to consider.
"It is not necessary for Eagles to be Crows"
"The warrior is not someone who fights, because no one has the right to take another life. The warrior, for us, is one who sacrifices himself for the good of others. His task is to take care of the elderly, the defenseless, those who can not provide for themselves, and above all, the children, the future of humanity.”
Sitting Bull
In a classic episode of Seinfeld called The Opposite, perma-loser George Costanza comes to the realization that if he would just act completely contrarily to his own instincts, things would begin to go his way. Jerry Seinfeld: “If every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right.”12 Apr 2010
"Does doing the opposite work?
“Doing the opposite” is a really effective, straightforward strategy to change your emotional state that can be difficult to put into action. This technique involves doing the opposite of whatever behaviors you normally perform due to painful or negative emotions."
What I would have done is the opposite. Israel are the Eagle.
First, secure your fucking border. Bibi talks the big show but he and the IDF failed their people miserably. Secure it, let the world know it will never suffer an incursion again. Impenetrable.
But even more importantly, first, second, third to infinity...get the hostages back. Whatever it takes, prisoner exchange, cash, concessions. Whatever price you have to pay, get your people back. That is the warrior way.
The reprisals can wait, the leadership and soldiers of Hamas can wait. Get your people home.
Then you deal with Hamas and your self defence.
My idea of how Israel could defend itself doesn't involve leveling Gaza, it is the opposite.
Instead of destroying hospitals, schools, desal plants and civilian neighborhoods. Build them.
Instead of allowing settlers to just show up and take a Palestinian's house and land. Prevent them.
Instead of blocking and undermining their economic enhancement. Help them.
Instead of denying their right to self determination and statehood. Give it to them.
What you have been doing for 75 years, and since Oct 7 hasn't made you any safer. Do the opposite.
Chop the endless cycle of murder and reprisal in half. Create two lines out of the remaining curves, both pointing in the same direction. Like a railway track.
Then start a Love Train.
Invite the Palestinians to get on board.
Tell them that if they do, to paraphrase the famous words of Nez Perce Chief Joseph...
"We will fight no more forever". That if they don't, this cycle will never end and they will never win, that you can just keep killing them forever.
I know I sound like a trip head. Maybe I have been warped by all the petrol fumes I've been inhaling working on my car the last few days.
I know it would never happen, not while Israel is lead by warmongers, not peacemakers like Yitzhak Rabin was, and as Optimist would say it's "simplistic nonsense".
But if I was able to be the Eagle of the ME. That's what I would do.
Keep fighting the fight Indo.
I'm out. You may be right. I may have gone insane.
Pop Down wrote:Adam
I have known u for 40’years and am not sure of your ancestry .Over the years , a few of your views make me wonder if u are Irish .
Will guess , English , with your family here about 69 generations .
That French diplomat U highlighted ( pissed with Conrad guy ) terribly about what HIS forefathers, thought a Good Idea at the time .
A real Spilt Milk complainer lol
I said above , that I think this fight is between Iran and Israel .
With the hand your and my forefathers dealt us , I stand with Israel .
We put them there .
Edit
Shit , Pop alert .
If u guys have been here since before WW2 Adam , I am wrong, again , again .
Ok , just my dads side was English , but I must claim responsibility v.
edit 3
I don’t ever want to talk to u on SN again , just on the phone , please .
This thread is turning more bizarre by the day.
adam12, suppose what you said is fair and reasonable.
Now, to be balanced, what should Hamas/Iran/Arab Muslims/Palestinians/etc have done over the past 75 years? Does the same logic not apply to them? Is what they've been doing also not working and not making them, their peoples and the overall region safer and more prosperous? Should they not also do the opposite to what they have been? Are they not also at fault? Are they also eagles? Should they not also take the path of the true warrior?
It’s the Hostages freedom should be the first priority of the IDF .
It is definitely the MAIN priority of the Israel people .
Now , much more than yesterday I am guessing .
During negotiations to free them , the Israelis have offered and given both Prisoners , Cash and Concessions .
I’m guessing they have tried , whatever it takes , to .
And their hostages torture is thrown in their face EVERY day ,
War , especially this one , is horrible .
oliver.ricci wrote:adam12, suppose what you said is fair and reasonable.
Now, to be balanced, what should Hamas/Iran/Arab Muslims/Palestinians/etc have done over the past 75 years? Does the same logic not apply to them? Is what they've been doing also not working and not making them, their peoples and the overall region safer and more prosperous? Should they not also do the opposite to what they have been? Are they not also at fault? Are they also eagles? Should they not also take the path of the true warrior?
Aw fuck Oliver, I'm trying to stay off this thread now.
Anyway, yes you are right. Hamas is also the problem. Big Time.
Can't be bothered going over the past.
What I will say regarding Hamas is that if you give the Palestinians something Hamas never could, then if they got in the way of that, the Palestinians would deal with Hamas themselves.
So please.
Don't anyone ask me anything else.
I probably don't know what the fuck I am talking about anyway.
Ask my mate @Pop. He's always up for a chat.
I'm gone.
@Pop.
FMD.
Sorry I missed that.
Yes mate, Irish. (Mums side) From County Clare, where Trumps got a golf course.
6th gen Australian. My first ancestor left Ireland, joined the Scottish Fusileers and sailed out as a convict guard with Charles O'Hara Booth in the early 1800's. Was a guard at Port Arthur, helped build the famous convict railway. Retired, bought a Pub in Launceston, (I've had a beer there) lost his wife to his best mate, went mad and threw himself down a well.
You know my last name, it's a derivative of "Mc Callister" or son of Mc Callister so on my old man's side they were Scots or Welsh. The family never went into his side so dunno.
Now you Dutch bastard, stop asking me questions.
PS. Just went for first surf for a month, was rooted just paddling out at Grove. The North Shore seems a long way off from here, but I'll get there, just got to make a few lifestyle changes and start training like Percy Cerutty was my coach.
I'll ring you.
thanx for the reply
pop does like a chat
I am bloody hopeless Olly , really .
I chat to everybody .
Guessing , as Goofy pointed out, being a major contributor to the weirdness on this thread .
I like asking questions .
Like why I didn't go with my gut feeling and guess Adam was Irish . His girly surname put me off .
edit
I don't expect U to believe me but , I am really trying to NOT chat .
Edit 2
It's like Karen ( not sounds like ) , sorry lol
adam12 wrote:@Indo,
OK, we see things differently.
I'm a bit exhausted and this whole thing is ...well...exhausting, circular and a bit depressing.
I'm spending too much time here and not doing the things I planned this week. But anyway...
I'll tell you what I think Israel should have done following Oct. 7, but first some wisdom to consider.
"It is not necessary for Eagles to be Crows"
"The warrior is not someone who fights, because no one has the right to take another life. The warrior, for us, is one who sacrifices himself for the good of others. His task is to take care of the elderly, the defenseless, those who can not provide for themselves, and above all, the children, the future of humanity.”
Sitting Bull
In a classic episode of Seinfeld called The Opposite, perma-loser George Costanza comes to the realization that if he would just act completely contrarily to his own instincts, things would begin to go his way. Jerry Seinfeld: “If every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right.”12 Apr 2010
"Does doing the opposite work?“Doing the opposite” is a really effective, straightforward strategy to change your emotional state that can be difficult to put into action. This technique involves doing the opposite of whatever behaviors you normally perform due to painful or negative emotions."
What I would have done is the opposite. Israel are the Eagle.
First, secure your fucking border. Bibi talks the big show but he and the IDF failed their people miserably. Secure it, let the world know it will never suffer an incursion again. Impenetrable.
But even more importantly, first, second, third to infinity...get the hostages back. Whatever it takes, prisoner exchange, cash, concessions. Whatever price you have to pay, get your people back. That is the warrior way.
The reprisals can wait, the leadership and soldiers of Hamas can wait. Get your people home.
Then you deal with Hamas and your self defence.
My idea of how Israel could defend itself doesn't involve leveling Gaza, it is the opposite.
Instead of destroying hospitals, schools, desal plants and civilian neighborhoods. Build them.
Instead of allowing settlers to just show up and take a Palestinian's house and land. Prevent them.
Instead of blocking and undermining their economic enhancement. Help them.
Instead of denying their right to self determination and statehood. Give it to them.
What you have been doing for 75 years, and since Oct 7 hasn't made you any safer. Do the opposite.
Chop the endless cycle of murder and reprisal in half. Create two lines out of the remaining curves, both pointing in the same direction. Like a railway track.
Then start a Love Train.
Invite the Palestinians to get on board.
Tell them that if they do, to paraphrase the famous words of Nez Perce Chief Joseph...
"We will fight no more forever". That if they don't, this cycle will never end and they will never win, that you can just keep killing them forever.
I know I sound like a trip head. Maybe I have been warped by all the petrol fumes I've been inhaling working on my car the last few days.
I know it would never happen, not while Israel is lead by warmongers, not peacemakers like Yitzhak Rabin was, and as Optimist would say it's "simplistic nonsense".
But if I was able to be the Eagle of the ME. That's what I would do.
Keep fighting the fight Indo.
I'm out. You may be right. I may have gone insane.
I get the idea but dont you think that approach was already taken in 2005 when they handed over Gaza in a peace plan, and even agreed to provide energy and water until they got self sufficient or a certain period cant remember which.
But the peace deal was broken not long after with Hamas firing rockets at Gaza and 18 years latter (before the war) despite previous attacks Israel was still providing energy, water & jobs.
The high security at the border and blockade of the border was also a result of the Hamas breaking the peace plan.
Other approaches since have been, lower level retaliation and just absorbing rocket attacks with the iron dome.
Then of course there is a long history of two state solutions that have always been rejected by Palestine.
The current approach is the only approach that has never been tried.
Anyway fun waves this arvo and surprisingly in what is normally one of the most crowded weeks of the year it was mostly just locals or familiar faces, go figure, but a nice surprise.
oliver.ricci wrote:adam12, suppose what you said is fair and reasonable.
Now, to be balanced, what should Hamas/Iran/Arab Muslims/Palestinians/etc have done over the past 75 years? Does the same logic not apply to them? Is what they've been doing also not working and not making them, their peoples and the overall region safer and more prosperous? Should they not also do the opposite to what they have been? Are they not also at fault? Are they also eagles? Should they not also take the path of the true warrior?
I guess the group or individual with the power/ strength has the opportunity to be the warrior, not the weaker, I was going to say oppressed party.
The one with the power has choice of being bully or peacemaker in school yard terms....
Simplifying complexity I know...
Yep simple power imbalance. This quick clip, pillar 2 alludes to the 1000000.4587312543% fact that Bibi and his ultra Zionists coalition partners needed this war. Backfiring spectacularly.
Hhmmm interesting. Same bias on broader themes here also.
I know I have said that I'm out here, but I came across a couple of videos on twitter tonight ( can't escape the issue there either) that I wanted to put up here, and in particular wanted @Indo to have a look and see what he thinks if he gets some time. One is from one of the most eminent International Lawyers and Genocide Convention prosecutors in the world, the other a young Jewish American girl who has some cogent thoughts to share.
Francis Boyle is a leading human rights lawyer and professor of international law.
— Niz (@NizMhani) January 2, 2024
He was the first person to make a successful case on genocide at the International Court of Justice
He has reviewed the #Gaza evidence and concludes likely #genocide.
pic.twitter.com/O2ngiUCnVG
The crack between #Israel and the young generation of Jews is widening and deepening.
— Abier (@abierkhatib) January 1, 2024
Listen to the kind of questions this girl is asking #Gaza pic.twitter.com/Vb9GdVz2CF
Wow more random videos…must be all true hey….cause they are on the telly and all.
How’s your invisible sky guy going opti? All this death of innocent people part of his grand plan? Eternal love and all?
Do not mention the G word ...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/israeli-public-figures-acc...
Flopti a cpl pages back :
- “ Yes it’s true ,people make stuff up and now they are getting even better at it. “
Wahahaha ;);)
…’planet heaven’ anyone ?? Hahaha
And above :
“ Wow more random videos…must be all true hey….cause they are on the telly and all. “
So… one of the ‘random’ videos is a very articulate and accurate presentation by a professor of international law.
Did you get that bit flopti ?
- a professor of international law ;)
A professor of international law commenting on… ummm …international law ;);)
Contrast that against the words of floptimist haha
- the flopti is a bigoted, uninformed nobody and fundamentalist zealot who believes baby jesus is coming back to save us ;);)
- the flopti also reckons he has answers to explain the ‘end of days’ and pretends he knows this with certainty through his religiously inspired interpretations ;);)
Sounds like flopti is a professor of endless bullshit… offering nothing but endless bullshit.
“Yes, it’s true ,people make stuff up and they are getting even better at it”
It’s true flopti… yet you are not getting better at it.
But you may be the best ;)
…it’s still seemingly ok that u keep making ya shit up flopti (all the while trying to accuse others of doing exactly that)
- sure thing flopti lawd fraud imaginary bs extraordinaire haha
…but are you a comedian or a magician
;);)
https://m.
&pp=ygUPUmVsaWdpb3VzIGZyYXVk Gee whiz, the people who demanded the genocide of all Israelis got smoked themselves. Funny how that often happens.
And guy the muppet, the death and destruction is due to too many aggressive people like you in the world…and my sky guy as you call Him is looking down and shaking His head at what free thinking created people do to each other.
There will be an intervention soon though….you can count on it and people like you will be running for cover but you won’t find it.
Everything else in the text has come true, so I don’t see why that would be any different…..more bad times to come first though……real bad unfortunately for the world….but we reap what we sow.
Haha ;);)
You certainly require an intervention ;)
Oh My Stars
Now some think blaming a Higher Power is also worth posting .
There are a number of Middle Eastern " Eagles " . Lots more from O/S flying around there two atm .
ALL World Eagles know each other , VERY well .
Lets give Eagle status to all ME OPEC members .
Saudi Arabia ( MSB bought a $US500m Da Vinci to prove HE was Top Eagle lol ) , Iran , UAE , Iraq , Libya and Kuwait .
Lets even give Egypt a Falcon ( they love them ) status .
Then there is the Israeli Eagle .
All the other local Eagles have tried to kill the Israeli Eagle , numerous times .
It knows ALL the other ME Eagles , MUCH better than any O/S Eagles !!!
It thinks very differently to the other Eagles .
The other Eagles are willing to sacrifice THEIR chicks , in the thousands , to get to Paradise .
The Israeli Eagle cares about every chick .
The Iranian Eagle , has stated to the World , it will do ANYTHING , to kill the Israeli Eagle .
These two Eagles are NOW fighting for their lives and both know it .
For some reason , on Oct 7th , the Jewish Eagle took her eye off Gaza , maybe gazing too far north or west .
Too her horror , Iranian Chicks stormed her boarder ,again , smashed chicks, again , and stole over a hundred .
Of course she has tried to het EACH one back . All her Chicks NOW know the name of ALL the stolen chicks .
All the Israeli Chicks are freaking out about it , every day its on their News channels .
However , half of the chicks , have reenlisted .
They all want to join together and get the Iranian Chicks who have THEIR chicks .
The Eagle decided to throw all her chicks at Gaza , that's where HER chicks are .
She is risking EVERYTHING for those hostage chicks , and all the chicks are right behind her .
She is in the biggest fight of HER life and the fight is still in the balance !
The Israeli Eagle knows , and hears , that most of the world thinks SHE is being cruel , trying to get her chicks back .
She understands ( it has happened before ) , but she knows , she can't care .
Only She really knows the Iranian Eagle , and knows that THAT Eagle , is very Cruel , even to her own chicks .
Unlike , the Main Stream media , THIS thread seems to have changed peoples sides .
I only check out the media to see which sides certain journalists take on very different issues .
On Covid , the Voice , and this fn War , the journos are in the same camps , again .
Not here , I am guessing ( new here ) .
Very cool imho .
Surfers ARE different .
Edit
The Israeli Eagle has an Iron Dome to help protect her chicks .
Otherwise , as surrounded , she would be a sitting Duck , and could be slaughtered .
edit 2
There are at least three sides to most stories , so I try and be flexible ( not in body ) , and can change , midstream .
Often , I don't know who's side I am on .
Pop, if I interpret you correctly, that's what I was thinking.
Israel, as a tiny nation trying to survive in a sea of a billion Muslims, is not the eagle. It's on the wrong end of the power balance in the ME, to the extent that it needs an iron dome to not get obliterated, and lax border enforcement results in Islamic terrorists taking the opportunity to slaughter and take hostage innocent Israelis?
Olly
I should have added that a number of the Arab Eagles are tired of the Old fight .
Before Oct 7 , the Saudi's and Israel's were getting real progress on diplomatic relations .
The Saudi's floated Aramco ( 10% ) and play by International Rules .
The UAE is very friendly .
Only one half of Muslims want to kill EVERY Jew and Infidel ( I bet I am one of those ) .
Israel is focused intently on Gaza and the hostages .
She knows the Iranian chicks everywhere else are watching .
She thinks they have given her a slight chance .
They have hesitated , She doesn't DO that .
She makes hard decisions quickly , some are wrong and corrected , as She is SO determined .
She has been Forged by Fire , over Two Thousand Years .
Edit
The Egyptian Falcon , can't even say that .
edit 2
This old Eagle was given a home after millions of her chicks were slaughtered in WW2 .
She was so grateful and promised to look after the place . Let any Eagle chicks visit .
It is a very hard job keeping this volatile spot safe .
She has done an incredible job developing her lair .
No underground tunnels will She hide in .
No Eagle , can now take HER home away , without fighting for it .
No way !
Edit 3
The Israeli Eagle has dignity .
If All her chicks are surrounded and in trouble , SHE will land and talk to negotiate a safe outcome for her chicks .
Then she will fly off , and just kill herself .
The world will be worse off if that Eagle becomes extinct .
@ Adam
You have your view, that i will never change and I have my view that you will never change.
If our views ever change it more likely just be a gradual change over time that we will come to through various means but most likely just by things we have searched out ourselves.
We both can find countless videos on social media or Youtube supporting our positions, ive seen these arguments countless times.
The problem i have with these types of video's is they dont offer realistic alternatives or aren't realistic in the current evaluation of things.
Like the women above and this common argument of Israel is just creating more people who will become radicalised, yeah sure its not untrue, but the problem is the radicalisation is already there and there is already this huge problem that needs to be dealt with, and as noted in my last post all other avenues and solutions on the problem have been explored, while this one hasn't and its the one that actually makes logical sense. (to me and Israel at least :)
Anyway I feel like we are now going around is circles and getting to that point where we just need to say lets agree to disagree until some other new interesting aspect pops up.
I do appreciate and respect your change in approach though to dealing with me and my views, as while between countries I do think sometimes war is needed to sort out issues or even bring peace, i dont have an interest in online wars with people i dont even know just because they have opposing views or their views frustrate me, i get it though it is hard sometimes.
@Indo,
Appreciate that, thanks.
You are right.
Truce.
Apologies for my past cuntiness, I have no excuses, just my way, I try to be a better man than that but as you know, I often fail.
Until we clash again.
Peace.
Peace , one of this old blokes favourite words .
LOVE is also cool .
So is SURFING .
Didn’t your jeebus have much to say about self righteousness and judgement opti?
Remembering back I’d reckon he would have been on the side of the downtrodden so I know which side he would be on so you can go forth in the knowledge that that camel will get through the eye of the needle before you see those pearly gates ….
Smiley
Maybe check some numbers .
How many Jews have been killed in the last 100 years .
Then the same for Arabs.
Maybe the one with that has the most numbers can be all our definition of , Down Trodden ?
What do U think ?
adam12 wrote:@Indo,
Appreciate that, thanks.
You are right.
Truce.
Apologies for my past cuntiness, I have no excuses, just my way, I try to be a better man than that but as you know, I often fail.
Until we clash again.
Peace.
No worries, all good, we are all human.
Ha ha "Yes until we clash again", im sure it wont be long :D
Pop Down wrote:Smiley
Maybe check some numbers .
How many Jews have been killed in the last 100 years .
Then the same for Arabs.
Maybe the one with that has the most numbers can be all our definition of , Down Trodden ?
What do U think ?
Two wrongs don’t make a right. They just keep creating wrongs. As to your comment about Israel’s eagle being dignified. You’re on crack. Nothing dignified since statehood. Just creating more problems. Snap crackle and pop!
A history lesson. The eye of the needle was a small gate in the Jerusalem wall.
You know, the city that the Jews have had for around 3500 years.
Ironically Jeru……Salem…….means “ city of peace”.
The one all the bad guys constantly try and take off them. Now the jihadis are trying again.
It was a short cut gate through the wall otherwise you had to go around the longer way to get into the city.
To get your camel through that gate it had to be unloaded…you had to shed your baggage and then the camel could get through in a prostrate crawling fashion.
The point Jesus was making is obvious….unload your baggage …be able to stand before God with clean hands and with a repentant heart….then you will see heaven….this is a constant struggle daily for humanity but one worth having….
Jesus is there for you.
Oh fuck off. We all know the story.
Optimist wrote:A history lesson. The eye of the needle was a small gate in the Jerusalem wall.
You know, the city that the Jews have had for around 3500 years.
Ironically Jeru……Salem…….means “ city of peace”.
The one all the bad guys constantly try and take off them. Now the jihadis are trying again.
It was a short cut gate through the wall otherwise you had to go around the longer way to get into the city.
To get your camel through that gate it had to be unloaded…you had to shed your baggage and then the camel could get through in a prostrate crawling fashion.
The point Jesus was making is obvious….unload your baggage …be able to stand before God with clean hands and with a repentant heart….then you will see heaven….this is a constant struggle daily for humanity but one worth having….
Jesus is there for you.
Oh dear. someone left the loony bin doors unlocked
The real irony is that Islam recognises Jesus as a great prophet while Judaism sees him as a false prophet. And yet, as a Christian, you’ll bend over for the rough end of the pineapple from who? Who doesn’t allow it to be the city of peace in modern times? And same goes for the West Bank.
Interesting.
"A group of prominent Israelis has accused the country’s judicial authorities of ignoring “extensive and blatant” incitement to genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza by influential public figures.
“For the first time that we can remember, the explicit calls to commit atrocious crimes, as stated, against millions of civilians have turned into a legitimate and regular part of Israeli discourse,” they write. “Today, calls of these types are an everyday matter in Israel.”
Signatories include one of Israel’s top scientists, the Royal Society member Prof David Harel, alongside other academics, former diplomats, former members of the Knesset, journalists and activists.
The list of elite Israelis who have incited war crimes includes cabinet ministers and Knesset members, former top military officials, academics, media figures, social media influencers and celebrities, the letter says.
The letter was sent before South Africa filed a case at the international court of justice accusing Israel of genocide and of failing to stop incitement to genocide."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/israeli-public-figures-acc...
Amazing.
One guy uses a story in an incorrect context .
When reminded of the FACTS of the story he says F off .
Then Burley posts the facts , again ( don't say f ogff again smiley , please ) .
Burley , I am unsure who is looney , and NFI which doors are unlocked .
Please , don't be like me , be clearer .
Peace be with U guys , and especially Optima .
edit
Seedy
Are U working on those numbers ?
I can do them easy , use google .
U , as a fair minded bloke , would agree , a Consensus on who the fuck is Down Trodden , is fair and total deaths over a 100 years a fair indicator , surely .
If not , give me another form of suffering , that suits U .
And why keep bring up Jesus !!!!!
There is a Muslim prophet U could also talk about .
He did stuff to .
Why don't you EVER mention that guy ?
Pop Down wrote:Smiley
Maybe check some numbers .
How many Jews have been killed in the last 100 years .
Then the same for Arabs.
Maybe the one with that has the most numbers can be all our definition of , Down Trodden ?
What do U think ?
Jews were mainly killed by German / European fascists in last 100 years, not Arabs. Yet Arabs paying for the sins of European fascists.....
2 wrongs etc ....
Really Macca ???
U2 ?
Does the definition of Down Trodden and total deaths REALLY have to depend on WHO did the fn Killing ?
FFS - make it fn 2 or 3 or 4 or 500 years then .
U can , like smiley , offer a better definition of Down Trodden .
Lets try and move a bit beyond 2 wrongs or rights ffs .
Kids stuff imho
edit
Smileys definitions is Hamas , ONE of the Iranians Divisions of Fighters getting the shit smashed out of them as their brothers forgot to jump into the fn fight , being down trodden .
I say great , and they deserve it .
To me , that definition is looney !
edit
Smiley , without numbers , what can we count on ?
Mate , they are so relevant and painful .
edit 3
When U mention ONE transgression of that Muslim prophet , please fell free to keep pointing out Jesus's .
I like a balanced fight .
Numbers are irrelevant Pop. Prophets pffft I don’t believe one bit of it. Opti’s horseshit is nothing but fables. Fables are a great literary creation. By mankind, not some sky fairy. What’s gone on on the ground is real. Done by real people.
My first comment on this thread was “nothing will change while the West turns a blind eye to Israel’s transgressions”
Maybe I should have said it’ll only get worse. Or maybe I should have included Israel’s backers the good old USA
Reckon Adam12 was onto something with do the opposite! Shame they didn’t do it from the start. Shame also the Britain didn’t get there wish to not have a Jewish state in Palestine. The US got their way and what a fucking mess it created.
Yes AndyM
I read that this morning. Welcome rumblings from within.
Pop Down wrote:Really Macca ???
U2 ?
Does the definition of Down Trodden and total deaths REALLY have to depend on WHO did the fn Killing ?
FFS - make it fn 2 or 3 or 4 or 500 years then .
U can , like smiley , offer a better definition of Down Trodden .
Lets try and move a bit beyond 2 wrongs or rights ffs .
Kids stuff imho
edit
Smileys definitions is Hamas , ONE of the Iranians Divisions of Fighters getting the shit smashed out of them as their brothers forgot to jump into the fn fight , being down trodden .
I say great , and they deserve it .
To me , that definition is looney !
Come on mate, I have stated clearly on this thread I am supportive of the state of Israel due to the persecution Jews have endured for centuries, especially with the Nazis.
What I am not supportive of is the continual taking of Palestinian land by settlers, many who originate from the USA or old mate Daniel from Melbourne. Think they are not safe in USA or Oz??
Also the indiscriminate killing of women and kids in Gaza is now indefensible.
Many Israelis also have these concerns as you can read in the article I posted from the Guardian which Adam has again posted.
As soon as someone brings religion in as an argument, I'm out.
Smiley
I think history has a funny way of repeating itself .
I asked U a few questions in my edits above .
From U view on What is happening On the Ground in Gaza atm why do U view Hamas as Down Trodden .
They are getting smashed , but as a Group totally funded by Iran , certainly rolling in cash .
What IS your definition , of Down Trodden ???
U have used the term about a 1000 times ( but numbers don't matter ) .
Otherwise , the term makes absolutely , No sense , to me .
Edit
U right seeds . I hope U don't start talking about Muhammad !
Geez Pop time for a Becs and a lay down.
Ha! Time for a thread cleanser.
Just found a video I didn't know existed.
Me hanging out on stage at Crown about ten years ago with a rolled gold AFL/VFL legend, chatting about my grandad.
This one's for you @Indo, so you know what I look like, in case you ever see me out in a lineup and want to come up and say g'day, or give me a slap!
PS. Note my inspirational address towards the end to the Richmond players, who went on to win three flags and produce another golden era. I take all the credit!
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/726812/hall-of-fame-inductee-tom-ohal...
Good stuff Adam :)
Pop I think you need to go back and re read the recent posts. You’re getting people mixed up. Also you’re the only one who has used the term down trodden and absolutely no one has claimed Hamas is down trodden. And yet you are attributing these words to others.
haha, classic @adam12, nice one. : )
(love me a good haggis, or blood sausage, but I half-gagged on the third one... 'they used to eat, tongue.. brains... GLANDS'!)
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