The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
Supafreak wrote:I find it hilarious that the dill bags JF for you tube videos then posts you tube videos, then bags adam 12 for using twitter as a source but cheers twitter if the source suits him . Then calls others hypocritical, very entertaining stuff. Long live the dill.
Well SF, there is valid information vids then there is jellybrain’s irrelevant stupid videos, just like there is information posts then there is your irrelevant stupid posts.
andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:sypkan wrote:funny some of the oddballs on twitter claiming hamas is winning this war...
not funny, but strange
(maybe not that strange)
Hamas is responsible for the deaths….wtf. But but but but wait until burleigh, adam12, andybutbutbut, soggybiscuit, jellybrain, SR, et al hear this. I look forward to them discrediting this guy.
Deaths are the fault of the IDF according to those renowned SN military geniuses.Yep good source there mate, an Israeli journo embedded with IDF.... Pfft
Least he can probably feel safe he won't be taken out by a sniper.
Re death figures on Gazan civilian life. Some agencies reporting figure is very much under real figures as bodies still remaining under rubble are not being reported as death. So 20-30000 mainly women and kids dead are ok with you as long as the goodies are winning their fight against the evil wicked lesser humans. Yeah ha giddy up soldier!!Israel's goal for this war to be won is total elimination of Hamas, yeah good luck with that.
I have sickening feeling that this is just beginning reminding me of GW Bush declaring mission accomplished in Iraq and we know how that went.
No one thinks Hamas will be destroyed. It’s impossible to destroy them. Israel knows they won’t eliminate Hamas. It’s not even an outcome worth promoting, it is a valid reason that the IDF can use as they eliminate as many of them and their supporters and their networks and their infrastructure. It is nothing more than a convenient headline.
If they know Hamas cannot be destroyed, what is their goal with this continual killing of innocents to get a small % of Hamas fighters?
It is no longer defence in any stretch of the imagination.
Revenge?
Genocide?
Honestly how does this end?
And how is it helping Israel or Israeli's now?
I gave you the answer.
“ they eliminate as many of them and their supporters and their networks and their infrastructure.” military objectives are not that hard to comprehend.
And “ they eliminate as many of them and their supporters and their networks and their infrastructure.” as a defence and to weaken any future attacks.
Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:sypkan wrote:funny some of the oddballs on twitter claiming hamas is winning this war...
not funny, but strange
(maybe not that strange)
Hamas is responsible for the deaths….wtf. But but but but wait until burleigh, adam12, andybutbutbut, soggybiscuit, jellybrain, SR, et al hear this. I look forward to them discrediting this guy.
Deaths are the fault of the IDF according to those renowned SN military geniuses.Yep good source there mate, an Israeli journo embedded with IDF.... Pfft
Least he can probably feel safe he won't be taken out by a sniper.
Re death figures on Gazan civilian life. Some agencies reporting figure is very much under real figures as bodies still remaining under rubble are not being reported as death. So 20-30000 mainly women and kids dead are ok with you as long as the goodies are winning their fight against the evil wicked lesser humans. Yeah ha giddy up soldier!!Israel's goal for this war to be won is total elimination of Hamas, yeah good luck with that.
I have sickening feeling that this is just beginning reminding me of GW Bush declaring mission accomplished in Iraq and we know how that went.
No one thinks Hamas will be destroyed. It’s impossible to destroy them. Israel knows they won’t eliminate Hamas. It’s not even an outcome worth promoting, it is a valid reason that the IDF can use as they eliminate as many of them and their supporters and their networks and their infrastructure. It is nothing more than a convenient headline.
If they know Hamas cannot be destroyed, what is their goal with this continual killing of innocents to get a small % of Hamas fighters?
It is no longer defence in any stretch of the imagination.
Revenge?
Genocide?
Honestly how does this end?
And how is it helping Israel or Israeli's now?I gave you the answer.
“ they eliminate as many of them and their supporters and their networks and their infrastructure.” military objectives are not that hard to comprehend.
And “ they eliminate as many of them and their supporters and their networks and their infrastructure.” as a defence and to weaken any future attacks.
Or the unintended consequence, the biggest Hamas/ Islamic extremist recruitment drive since the Gulf war...
Good strategy!
Bound to succeed and bring peace to the ME..
andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:sypkan wrote:funny some of the oddballs on twitter claiming hamas is winning this war...
not funny, but strange
(maybe not that strange)
Hamas is responsible for the deaths….wtf. But but but but wait until burleigh, adam12, andybutbutbut, soggybiscuit, jellybrain, SR, et al hear this. I look forward to them discrediting this guy.
Deaths are the fault of the IDF according to those renowned SN military geniuses.Yep good source there mate, an Israeli journo embedded with IDF.... Pfft
Least he can probably feel safe he won't be taken out by a sniper.
Re death figures on Gazan civilian life. Some agencies reporting figure is very much under real figures as bodies still remaining under rubble are not being reported as death. So 20-30000 mainly women and kids dead are ok with you as long as the goodies are winning their fight against the evil wicked lesser humans. Yeah ha giddy up soldier!!Israel's goal for this war to be won is total elimination of Hamas, yeah good luck with that.
I have sickening feeling that this is just beginning reminding me of GW Bush declaring mission accomplished in Iraq and we know how that went.
No one thinks Hamas will be destroyed. It’s impossible to destroy them. Israel knows they won’t eliminate Hamas. It’s not even an outcome worth promoting, it is a valid reason that the IDF can use as they eliminate as many of them and their supporters and their networks and their infrastructure. It is nothing more than a convenient headline.
If they know Hamas cannot be destroyed, what is their goal with this continual killing of innocents to get a small % of Hamas fighters?
It is no longer defence in any stretch of the imagination.
Revenge?
Genocide?
Honestly how does this end?
And how is it helping Israel or Israeli's now?
Why do you ask the same questions that you already know the answer's too??
It's really not that hard to understand.
Ideally:
-Remove Hamas from power
-Destroy Hamas
This is a broad term and i think everyone is realistic that its not totally possible in an ideological sense or maybe even a physical sense, but saying "Wound Hamas" "Weaken Hamas" or whatever doesn't exactly have the same ring to it or motivation factor for IDF and its a bit of shot for the stars type thing.
But we know they know its not realistic because they are also talking about increasing the buffer zone and increasing security.
Basically
-Take out as many Hamas soldiers and leaders as possible
-Take out as many tunnels as possible
-Take out as many bases and control centres, training facilities etc as possible
-Take out as many stock piles of rockets and other ammunition stockpile's as possible
-Take out as many locations that rockets and other military equipment is made.
-Obtain as much information on Hamas operations and tunnels systems as possible to ensuee no stone is left unturned.
Obviously also try to find the hostages if no mire deals can get done.
Do IDF want genocide?
Clearly not, no army in history has ever gone to the lengths the IDF has to avoid civilian deaths, The IDF has made 20,000 calls, dropped 1.5m leaflets and sent 4.4 million SMS & 6 million voice messages urging civilians in northern Gaza to evacuate temporarily for their safety, at times provided safe areas of passage where a few hours a day there is ceasfire.
If IDF wanted genocide it could easily do so, there is zero benefit's to Israel and only benefits tom Hamas to do so.
Revenge?
The best revenge is to aim to get rid of Hamas.
How does it end?
Hopefully with Hamas out of power and severally weakened in every way possible and for Iran to think its a waste of money to fund these groups.
How does it help Israel and Israelis, it reduces the power of hamas and reduces the threat from Hamas
The whole narrative of this just creates more Hamas fighters or terrorist is just dumb arse talk, the people are brain washed to hate Jews anyway, foot soldiers are close to useless without all the other things that Israel is destroying , it would take Hamas a very long time to get back tio the strength it was before 7th October and a lot of money
Your alternative of do nothing and just let Israel take it up the arse is just total brain dead, imagine how rewarding that would be for Hamas and Iran, and just allows Hamas to get stronger and stronger and encourage Iran to fund more and more because they get great bang for buck.
@Indo”Clearly not, no army in history has ever gone to the lengths the IDF has to avoid civilian deaths, The IDF has made 20,000 calls, dropped 1.5m leaflets and sent 4.4 million SMS & 6 million voice messages urging civilians in northern Gaza to evacuate temporarily for their safety, at times provided safe areas of passage where a few hours a day there is ceasfire.”
Except for that one time.
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.aspx?IG=76F17EFA23EC4E428BC7F679D4D...
And maybe this time was a bit of a whoopsie Daisy too Indo?
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.aspx?IG=76F17EFA23EC4E428BC7F679D4D...
indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:sypkan wrote:funny some of the oddballs on twitter claiming hamas is winning this war...
not funny, but strange
(maybe not that strange)
Hamas is responsible for the deaths….wtf. But but but but wait until burleigh, adam12, andybutbutbut, soggybiscuit, jellybrain, SR, et al hear this. I look forward to them discrediting this guy.
Deaths are the fault of the IDF according to those renowned SN military geniuses.Yep good source there mate, an Israeli journo embedded with IDF.... Pfft
Least he can probably feel safe he won't be taken out by a sniper.
Re death figures on Gazan civilian life. Some agencies reporting figure is very much under real figures as bodies still remaining under rubble are not being reported as death. So 20-30000 mainly women and kids dead are ok with you as long as the goodies are winning their fight against the evil wicked lesser humans. Yeah ha giddy up soldier!!Israel's goal for this war to be won is total elimination of Hamas, yeah good luck with that.
I have sickening feeling that this is just beginning reminding me of GW Bush declaring mission accomplished in Iraq and we know how that went.
No one thinks Hamas will be destroyed. It’s impossible to destroy them. Israel knows they won’t eliminate Hamas. It’s not even an outcome worth promoting, it is a valid reason that the IDF can use as they eliminate as many of them and their supporters and their networks and their infrastructure. It is nothing more than a convenient headline.
If they know Hamas cannot be destroyed, what is their goal with this continual killing of innocents to get a small % of Hamas fighters?
It is no longer defence in any stretch of the imagination.
Revenge?
Genocide?
Honestly how does this end?
And how is it helping Israel or Israeli's now?Why do you ask the same questions that you already know the answer's too??
It's really not that hard to understand.
Ideally:
-Remove Hamas from power
-Destroy Hamas
This is a broad term and i think everyone is realistic that its not totally possible in an ideological sense or maybe even a physical sense, but saying "Wound Hamas" "Weaken Hamas" or whatever doesn't exactly have the same ring to it or motivation factor for IDF and its a bit of shot for the stars type thing.
But we know they know its not realistic because they are also talking about increasing the buffer zone and increasing security.
Basically
-Take out as many Hamas soldiers and leaders as possible
-Take out as many tunnels as possible
-Take out as many bases and control centres, training facilities etc as possible
-Take out as many stock piles of rockets and other ammunition stockpile's as possible
-Take out as many locations that rockets and other military equipment is made.
-Obtain as much information on Hamas operations and tunnels systems as possible to ensuee no stone is left unturned.Obviously also try to find the hostages if no mire deals can get done.
Do IDF want genocide?
Clearly not, no army in history has ever gone to the lengths the IDF has to avoid civilian deaths, The IDF has made 20,000 calls, dropped 1.5m leaflets and sent 4.4 million SMS & 6 million voice messages urging civilians in northern Gaza to evacuate temporarily for their safety, at times provided safe areas of passage where a few hours a day there is ceasfire.
If IDF wanted genocide it could easily do so, there is zero benefit's to Israel and only benefits tom Hamas to do so.
Revenge?
The best revenge is to aim to get rid of Hamas.
How does it end?
Hopefully with Hamas out of power and severally weakened in every way possible and for Iran to think its a waste of money to fund these groups.
How does it help Israel and Israelis, it reduces the power of hamas and reduces the threat from Hamas
The whole narrative of this just creates more Hamas fighters or terrorist is just dumb arse talk, the people are brain washed to hate Jews anyway, foot soldiers are close to useless without all the other things that Israel is destroying , it would take Hamas a very long time to get back tio the strength it was before 7th October and a lot of money
Your alternative of do nothing and just let Israel take it up the arse is just total brain dead, imagine how rewarding that would be for Hamas and Iran, and just allows Hamas to get stronger and stronger and encourage Iran to fund more and more because they get great bang for buck.
Cool story.
Anyway don't have time to really respond, but if you believe that this is not causing Israel harm in long term then rightio.
There will be charges of war crimes laid and Israel will only have support of USA and a couple of pacific island nations.
Their economy will start to suffer and once IDF soldiers start dying in larger numbers the political situation will change if this continues.
As was mentioned in your video, they escape like mice down tunnels, hard to win if not impossible a Guerilla war.
Will USA continue their support if causing political drama at home, serious I don't know.?
Netanyahu not real popular from all reports.
Palestinian people aren't going anywhere, so no problem is being fixed here, just exacerbated...
If Hezbollah Iran get involved I reckon Israel as we know it could be done.
Once precision missiles start landing on targets in Israel all bets are off.
Think all party's should stop now before further escalation.
Remember Israel had intelligence of Oct 7 and they ignored it. Could have been prevented by looks of it, so security not main factor here
“ oh mate, fucken’ things got a bit of a hair trigger eh’” ( the IDF that is)
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.aspx?IG=76F17EFA23EC4E428BC7F679D4D...
Geez, imagine part of your childhood growing up was to undertake simulated interrogation training in preparation for the likely eventuation of the real thing at some point. Mental.
Youtube won't let me share it (which raises it's own questions.).
Anyway if you are interested the title is.
The Palestinian kids fighting Israel's occupation [Pt. 1] | AJ+
goofyfoot wrote:Oh no Indo I am interested in the topic, as many others might be, it’s just with you providing every second comment and smothering the thread with your relentless repetitive unwavering opinions it becomes almost unbearable to read.
Whaddya talking about Goofy?
I mean today alone, between counting the number of posts people have put down (SwellnetSavant at his finest) and boasting about a 'friendly' bump to an innocent unassuming woman at the Dandenong markets just because she was wearing a Hijab...(sounds like inciting violence on a website against muslims to me)
I would have kicked the cnut to the curb years ago if i were the SN mob, but for whatever reason, he endures.
A poisoned mind and a pretty evil motherfucker as well when you read between the lines of his posts.
Only advice i have is don't give him the oxygen he craves.
Christian ladies in the West Bank? Safe as…..except for that one time.
https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-...
Shall I go on Indo, or would you concede that in their rage the IDF has killed pretty much anything that has moved. Even their own hostages calling out in Hebrew. Which puts paid to one of your previous rhetorical questions.
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.aspx?IG=AB75F03A6C624F8F9EEFDBC1DE0...
The IDF and Israeli propaganda has these poor soldiers so wound up. What are the down stream consequences if the shooting stops.
The letter drops and texts (phone and internet bombed into disrepair) are more for the likes of yourself and your consent currently than the safety of the Gaza population is what I think the body of evidence suggests.
Nautical silly buggers continues across the world's major trading routes:
Houthi boats find out:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67851897
India bound tankers get drone attacked, and Indian navy responds:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-28/indian-ship-attack-red-sea-israel...
southernraw wrote:goofyfoot wrote:Oh no Indo I am interested in the topic, as many others might be, it’s just with you providing every second comment and smothering the thread with your relentless repetitive unwavering opinions it becomes almost unbearable to read.
Whaddya talking about Goofy?
I mean today alone, between counting the number of posts people have put down (SwellnetSavant at his finest) and boasting about a 'friendly' bump to an innocent unassuming woman at the Dandenong markets just because she was wearing a Hijab...(sounds like inciting violence on a website against muslims to me)
I would have kicked the cnut to the curb years ago if i were the SN mob, but for whatever reason, he endures.
A poisoned mind and a pretty evil motherfucker as well when you read between the lines of his posts.
Only advice i have is don't give him the oxygen he craves.
Mate your X girlfriend lives in Israel and you support Hamas, what an absolute piece of trash, lowest of the low.
BTW. You are another modern fascist, anyone with a view you dont agree with, oh they should be canceled, deal with it dude, i swim in a sea of views here i dont agree with. that also drive me crazy at times, the lucky thing is the forums rarely mirror the real world.
southernraw wrote:goofyfoot wrote:Oh no Indo I am interested in the topic, as many others might be, it’s just with you providing every second comment and smothering the thread with your relentless repetitive unwavering opinions it becomes almost unbearable to read.
Whaddya talking about Goofy?
I mean today alone, between counting the number of posts people have put down (SwellnetSavant at his finest) and boasting about a 'friendly' bump to an innocent unassuming woman at the Dandenong markets just because she was wearing a Hijab...(sounds like inciting violence on a website against muslims to me)
I would have kicked the cnut to the curb years ago if i were the SN mob, but for whatever reason, he endures.
A poisoned mind and a pretty evil motherfucker as well when you read between the lines of his posts.
Only advice i have is don't give him the oxygen he craves.
SR, do you ever look at your posts after posting something and think to yourself …why did I actually say that? Do you ever reflect on posts afterwards?
yep, @soggy, on what planet is dropping leaflets from the sky, and mass messaging people, to say: "your neighborhood, neighbors, kids' school, shopping precinct and house is going to be obliterated in 24 hours, RUN! We can do ANYTHING! you are just human shields!" not terrorism?
It's just so the armchair-army can acquiesce, and keep spouting 'surgical precision' claptrap.
Hamas are terrorists. IDF have chosen to be terrorists, in response. It's absolutely fkn disgusting. How would you like us to express that @indo, in such a way as to not be accused of being supporters of either 'team'?
indo-dreaming wrote:southernraw wrote:goofyfoot wrote:Oh no Indo I am interested in the topic, as many others might be, it’s just with you providing every second comment and smothering the thread with your relentless repetitive unwavering opinions it becomes almost unbearable to read.
Whaddya talking about Goofy?
I mean today alone, between counting the number of posts people have put down (SwellnetSavant at his finest) and boasting about a 'friendly' bump to an innocent unassuming woman at the Dandenong markets just because she was wearing a Hijab...(sounds like inciting violence on a website against muslims to me)
I would have kicked the cnut to the curb years ago if i were the SN mob, but for whatever reason, he endures.
A poisoned mind and a pretty evil motherfucker as well when you read between the lines of his posts.
Only advice i have is don't give him the oxygen he craves.Mate your X girlfriend lives in Israel and you support Hamas, what an absolute piece of trash, lowest of the low.
#NoO24u
Roadkill wrote:southernraw wrote:goofyfoot wrote:Oh no Indo I am interested in the topic, as many others might be, it’s just with you providing every second comment and smothering the thread with your relentless repetitive unwavering opinions it becomes almost unbearable to read.
Whaddya talking about Goofy?
I mean today alone, between counting the number of posts people have put down (SwellnetSavant at his finest) and boasting about a 'friendly' bump to an innocent unassuming woman at the Dandenong markets just because she was wearing a Hijab...(sounds like inciting violence on a website against muslims to me)
I would have kicked the cnut to the curb years ago if i were the SN mob, but for whatever reason, he endures.
A poisoned mind and a pretty evil motherfucker as well when you read between the lines of his posts.
Only advice i have is don't give him the oxygen he craves.SR, do you ever look at your posts after posting something and think to yourself …why did I actually say that? Do you ever reflect on posts afterwards?
Dont be Robin or Goose Roady.
I think youre better than that.
Maybe take some time away from the keyboard eh? ;)
@andy-mac
"There will be charges of war crimes laid and Israel will only have support of USA and a couple of pacific island nations."
Whilst it hasn't got much press coverage here and the Israelis have publicly dismissed it, the South African request for the International Court of Justice to commence genocide investigations has left the Israeli and IDF leadership quaking in their (jack) boots and I believe has led to the sudden decision by the IDF to move most of it's troops out.
The International Court of Justice at the Hague is not a UN body like the ICC which Israel can ignore or get it's US allies to block or stifle. It was established under the Genocide Conventions following WW2 and Israel is a signatory and legally bound by it. Haaretz is reporting that the IDF brass is shitting themselves https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-01/ty-article/.premium/state....
.
@Indo, watch this space, I think your beloved virtuous warrior army is headed for deep shit and Bibi and the Israeli War Cabinet may follow them. Meanwhile, a message from a true leader made a while ago but I still like hearing his voice...
'Anybody who changes their principles depending on who they are dealing with, that is not a man who can lead a nation.' pic.twitter.com/8VDmd6187k
— Taj Ali (@Taj_Ali1) December 29, 2023
I think Old Joe and Blinken need to watch that video a few times and reflect on the variance in US diplomacy when comparing Gaza to Ukraine.
an example pic.twitter.com/6a4iudG0PK
— Musaed (@Kuwaiteb) December 30, 2023
southernraw wrote:Roadkill wrote:southernraw wrote:goofyfoot wrote:Oh no Indo I am interested in the topic, as many others might be, it’s just with you providing every second comment and smothering the thread with your relentless repetitive unwavering opinions it becomes almost unbearable to read.
Whaddya talking about Goofy?
I mean today alone, between counting the number of posts people have put down (SwellnetSavant at his finest) and boasting about a 'friendly' bump to an innocent unassuming woman at the Dandenong markets just because she was wearing a Hijab...(sounds like inciting violence on a website against muslims to me)
I would have kicked the cnut to the curb years ago if i were the SN mob, but for whatever reason, he endures.
A poisoned mind and a pretty evil motherfucker as well when you read between the lines of his posts.
Only advice i have is don't give him the oxygen he craves.SR, do you ever look at your posts after posting something and think to yourself …why did I actually say that? Do you ever reflect on posts afterwards?
Dont be Robin or Goose Roady.
I think youre better than that.
Maybe take some time away from the keyboard eh? ;)
I do reflect on posts..some I regret but too late to take back. 1 in particular I deeply regret ever making…but again I said it so have to own it.
I can’t work out why SN never made you an admin :)
Roadkill wrote:southernraw wrote:Roadkill wrote:southernraw wrote:goofyfoot wrote:Oh no Indo I am interested in the topic, as many others might be, it’s just with you providing every second comment and smothering the thread with your relentless repetitive unwavering opinions it becomes almost unbearable to read.
Whaddya talking about Goofy?
I mean today alone, between counting the number of posts people have put down (SwellnetSavant at his finest) and boasting about a 'friendly' bump to an innocent unassuming woman at the Dandenong markets just because she was wearing a Hijab...(sounds like inciting violence on a website against muslims to me)
I would have kicked the cnut to the curb years ago if i were the SN mob, but for whatever reason, he endures.
A poisoned mind and a pretty evil motherfucker as well when you read between the lines of his posts.
Only advice i have is don't give him the oxygen he craves.SR, do you ever look at your posts after posting something and think to yourself …why did I actually say that? Do you ever reflect on posts afterwards?
Dont be Robin or Goose Roady.
I think youre better than that.
Maybe take some time away from the keyboard eh? ;)I do reflect on posts..some I regret but too late to take back. 1 in particular I deeply regret ever making…but again I said it so have to own it.
I can’t work out why SN never made you an admin :)
100% the cafe comment.
I remember when people said ISIS could never be defeated .
Half of the Muslim world are already a breeding ground for recruits .
The other half of the Muslim world are not potentials as they don’t get along .
Sunni Shia Stuff .
ISIS blew up EVERY religious ( other beautiful ancient sites as well )’site , other than there’s , they could find .
Lucky a group like that are NOT in control of Jerusalem .
It cots the Israeli’s a lot to protect Muslim sites from Extremists , Jewish Extremists .
Roadkill wrote:It’s snowflake stuff not being able to remain calm.
often not that simple RK. If this thread was twin-fins, maybe, but it's not. Same as the referendum thread. People who think all threads are equal, have a few candles on their birthday cake.
I've met lotsa amateur-sociopaths over the years who delight in de-humanising and actively nurturing selective-empathy to support their pre-existing black and white view/agenda.. they are cool as cucumbers when discussing emotive, human issues.
They drive normal people mental, then sit back, quietly amused.
(they seem to do well as new-brooms in upper management).
Fair enough Roady.
Same here, with a couple, one in particular i reckon you might remember. Doh!
Live and learn(ing).
Admin sounds sweet!! Do i get to sit in the Kingy office all day, drink coffee and laugh at the comment section!
Can only imagine the laughs had at our expense!!
adam12 wrote:@andy-mac
"There will be charges of war crimes laid and Israel will only have support of USA and a couple of pacific island nations."
Whilst it hasn't got much press coverage here and the Israelis have publicly dismissed it, the South African request for the International Court of Justice to commence genocide investigations has left the Israeli and IDF leadership quaking in their (jack) boots and I believe has led to the sudden decision by the IDF to move most of it's troops out.
The International Court of Justice at the Hague is not a UN body like the ICC which Israel can ignore or get it's US allies to block or stifle. It was established under the Genocide Conventions following WW2 and Israel is a signatory and legally bound by it. Haaretz is reporting that the IDF brass is shitting themselves https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-01/ty-article/.premium/state....
.
@Indo, watch this space, I think your beloved virtuous warrior army is headed for deep shit and Bibi and the Israeli War Cabinet may follow them. Meanwhile, a message from a true leader made a while ago but I still like hearing his voice...
https://twitter.com/Taj_Ali1/status/1740815714423042265
I think Old Joe and Blinken need to watch that video a few times and reflect on the variance in US diplomacy when comparing Gaza to Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/Kuwaiteb/status/1741120359116443758
And brand USA as leader of the free world and human rights continues to be eroded.....
No one like hypocrisy....
adam12 wrote:@andy-mac
"There will be charges of war crimes laid and Israel will only have support of USA and a couple of pacific island nations."
Whilst it hasn't got much press coverage here and the Israelis have publicly dismissed it, the South African request for the International Court of Justice to commence genocide investigations has left the Israeli and IDF leadership quaking in their (jack) boots and I believe has led to the sudden decision by the IDF to move most of it's troops out.
The International Court of Justice at the Hague is not a UN body like the ICC which Israel can ignore or get it's US allies to block or stifle. It was established under the Genocide Conventions following WW2 and Israel is a signatory and legally bound by it. Haaretz is reporting that the IDF brass is shitting themselves https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-01/ty-article/.premium/state....
.
@Indo, watch this space, I think your beloved virtuous warrior army is headed for deep shit and Bibi and the Israeli War Cabinet may follow them. Meanwhile, a message from a true leader made a while ago but I still like hearing his voice...
https://twitter.com/Taj_Ali1/status/1740815714423042265
I think Old Joe and Blinken need to watch that video a few times and reflect on the variance in US diplomacy when comparing Gaza to Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/Kuwaiteb/status/1741120359116443758
If it ever happens it will be a very sad thing, and basically rewarding Hamas for their human shield strategy.
If Hamas or other groups are allowed, hence encouraged to use the human shield strategy, it will mean Israel can not conduct proper counter attacks and will only be able to rely on things like the Iron dome for protection, so it will be a race between Israel and others based on tech and there might be a celling on Israelis tech for protection
While Hamas and others rocket's tech will only improve and really is just down to money, Hezbollah already have much better rocket's, a coordinated attack from every border and Iran etc could see Israel risk being destroyed and for the USA and even us to really get involved in protecting Isreal.
And if Israel ever did look like it was to fall and it has nothing to lose and knows it will be destroyed why not go down in a blaze of glory and use nuclear weapon's?
If they did Al-Aqsa Mosque would be target number one, one of the muslim worlds most prized mosque and expect could see a huge war between the West and East break out.
I dont think anyone should be hoping Israel are restricted in their ability to defend themselves..
BTW. Thanks for keeping it civil
@Indo, not it won't be sad at all. It will be right and just and legal. And thinking that the enforcement of principles of international law that Israel played a large part in establishing to try to ensure genocide never occurred again is giving Hamas a victory then you have no understanding of these matters and didn't understand what my man Nelson was saying.
War crimes are war crimes. The enemy and who they are doesn't change that.
Edit. The same applies to Hamas and their leadership btw.
Edit 2. Although note that Hamas and Palestine are not signatories to the Genocide Convention. In part because Israel don't recognise their statehood
I don’t believe Hamas thought this a suicide mission .
If there was a coordinated war on numerous fronts the Israeli’s might have whole cities surrounded and getting bombed , like Gaza .
I bet Hamas would not be agreeing to any cease fire .
I would even bet that the Israeli’s would not STILL be holding and torturing hostages !
If that happened , Israel would NOT blow themselves UP . Silly and no dignity !
They would be forced to sue for Peace .
They keep the Nukes , they are their only bargaining chip .
Pop Down wrote:I don’t believe Hamas thought this a suicide mission .
If there was a coordinated war on numerous fronts the Israeli’s might have whole cities surrounded and getting bombed , like Gaza .
I bet Hamas would not be agreeing to any cease fire .
I would even bet that the Israeli’s would not STILL be holding and torturing hostages !
If that happened , Israel would NOT blow themselves UP . Silly and no dignity !
They would be forced to sue for Peace .
They keep the Nukes , they are their only bargaining chip .
There wouldn't be any negotiations for peace it would be an actual real genocide there would be no Jews left, at best they would be allowed to flee.
@andy-mac
"And brand USA as leader of the free world and human rights continues to be eroded.....
No one like hypocrisy..."
Yep, although I believe Pax Americana died with the Trump administration, Biden's guys did really well when Russia invaded Ukraine. Outstanding diplomacy and leadership. They have spent those pennies on backing Bibi into Gaza. If Trump gets back in this year ("Oh, the horror") then it's game over, their republic is finished and many states, including Australia will be left lost and rudderless and at the mercy of our enemies.
Indo
U are no diplomat .
The negotiations for Peace will not be with Hamas .
The Arab negotiators ( who ever they are ) will know their own city will hit by a nuke IF there are NO terms acceptable to the Israeli’s.
The Jews probably told Trump about it .
It works .
Remember this about money and power as well .
If an Arab country had nukes , they might blow themselves and everyone else up , if it meant going to paradise ( not my definition ) .
Not the Jews .
Edit
I am no diplomat either !!!
Edit 2
It doesn’t matter how many regulators the Arabs have .
The Israeli’s already have an idea who they will be negotiating with .
One Exocet hitting an already targeted home ( not nuke ) with help start a realistic Peace Deal .
If Jews are being slaughtered, they Will take terms that the Arabs , should , and will accept .
If the slaughter doesn’t stop , then ONE nuke lands somewhere .
Maybe even a dirty radioactive piece of shit can be flown in , special delivery , to anywhere by the Jews .
Edit 3
Trump was President , didn’t start a war .
On Bidens watch ??????
Edit 4
If u ask me , Indo , which would I choose , I will think it a trick question :))
Just saying .
Edit again
Iran seems to be having a lot of internal problems atm .
Their own people ( and a few other peoples probably)!are blowing up things there .
Iran has a huge population and not all are happy with the Mufti !
That place could Implode !
Yeah maybe you are right, all way above my pay grade.
I think its scary that Iran is suppose to be very close to developing nuclear arms. (or now possibly can)
"Iran has capacity to make nuclear weapons in two weeks, US warns in new report"https://www.wionews.com/world/iran-has-capacity-to-make-nuclear-weapons-...
And the choice of who is going to be in power of the USA in the next few rears looks to be between Trump and Biden.......oh dear.
indo-dreaming wrote:Yeah maybe you are right, all way above my pay grade.
I think its scary that Iran is suppose to be very close to developing nuclear arms. (or now possibly can)
"Iran has capacity to make nuclear weapons in two weeks, US warns in new report"https://www.wionews.com/world/iran-has-capacity-to-make-nuclear-weapons-...
And the choice of who is going to be in power of the USA in the next few rears looks to be between Trump and Biden.......oh dear.
This talk of nukes and diplomats.
Reminds me of the shitstorm French Ambassador Daniel Bernard caused when he was talking to Conrad Black (some Australians might recognise that name!) at a dinner party in the UK when Black was running the Daily Telegraph, when he said " "All the current troubles in the world are because of that shitty little country, Israel. Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?"
Black's wife overheard it then published it in an article in the DT.
It went off like a bomb.
Never a truer word spoken I reckon.
If the Israeli's ever went down that road, it might not be the end of the world, but it would be the end of them. And it wouldn't be the Iranians who I believe are now nuclear armed, despite Israel's efforts, the House of Saud would be the ones cleaning house. Israel would be no more.
The French Ambassador sounds like a fn dill .
The French were part of the Winning WW2 negotiating team that PUT Israel on the fn map .
Some people are promoted way above their ability , in France .
I feel even better about dumping their Subs now !
Edit
They and the Peace Treaty Everyone signed put fn wigglypiggly lines all over the place .
Forgot about a few peoples other than the Palestinians .
Kurds are spread through multiple countries, just because of an arbitrary fn line the French helped draw .
@Pop,
Yeah, we don't always agree.
I reckon there are plenty of diplomats around the world privately saying or thinking the same thing today
But who gives a fuck buddy, back to more important matters.
Been seriously thinking about your offer for Hawaii.
It would take some prep and commitment and a fair bit of training for these 62 yo bones. The North Shore in January. Fuck, I'll probably be coming home in a body bag!
I'll be ringing you soon for more info.
I'm tingling just thinking about it!
Indo thinks this guy is psycho and Ben Shapiro shits gold nuggets. The world is upside down.
This is a long one
?si=qOXtisLWZB3MLW5K
Hey Seeds, this little article covers it quite well I think. Nothing is justified. Both sides have generational beef. Propaganda has amplified the desire for revenge. More killing has only lead to more killing. Both sides have acted in bad faith at various times. It’s a fucking mess. A lot of innocent people are being killed.
?si=D8rBcavKfhTGc6in seeds wrote:Indo thinks this guy is psycho and Ben Shapiro shits gold nuggets. The world is upside down.
Actually number Hamas lover number 3, you are completely twisting my words and view, i said while i like Ben I said both their views are the extreme, hence why ive never shared anything on this issue from Ben, i dont even bother listening to Ben's views on this anymore as just like that other guy it's the extreme end of things and you are only getting told what you want to hear instead of the good and the bad or whole picture.
But 100% the world is totally upside down when there is people like you whom are complete traitors to the west and look to a guy that openly support's Hamas and 7th October and tries to justify the actions as freedom fighting or something.
Totally twisted,
Anyway good news this morning, a key Hamas figure assassinated in Beirut, and another key leader in Gaza was killed the other day (second vid below)
Good to see things now seem to be going into a more targeted mode, there has also been some withdraw of IDF troops from North Gaza in recent days and shuffling of things that seems to indicate a shift in stages of the war to perhaps a more targeted approach, that hopefully take's pressure off IDF and allow them to get the job completed.
Hopefully they can also take out Sinwar they seem to be hot on his heels just missed him a few times apparently .
And yes leaders can be replaced, but you still need to take them out, who ever steps up next needs to know they risk also losing their life's.
You do more than twist words. You put words in peoples mouths.
Also Finkelstein is far from extreme. He tells it how it’s gone down for decades from a factual historical viewpoint. No hasbara attached. Ben Shapiro is a Zionist. So yes very biased and extreme
southernraw wrote:Fair enough Roady.
Same here, with a couple, one in particular i reckon you might remember. Doh!
Live and learn(ing).
Admin sounds sweet!! Do i get to sit in the Kingy office all day, drink coffee and laugh at the comment section!
Can only imagine the laughs had at our expense!!
I am sure they have an on site barista and personal chefs just waiting to whip up a michelin quality lunch. After lunch they move to the helipad and are shuttled up or down the coast looking for the best waves.
100% laughing at the comments section. ;)
This is what Indo has said a few times...If Hamas choose to use all the money they have received for good...all of them would be living in peace and comfort.
Instead they choose war, terrorism and hate.
Hamas could have built its own Dubai. It chose war with Israel
Not only would the world have lined up to aid and invest in it, it would have been the most powerful springboard conceivable for a Palestinian state in the West Bank.
Thomas FriedmanContributor
Jan 2, 2024 – 9.25am
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Dubai | As The New York Times′ foreign affairs columnist since 1995, one of the most enduring lessons I’ve learned is that there are good seasons and bad seasons in this business, which are defined by the big choices made by the biggest players.
To close out the year, it’s through this prism of choices that I want to reexamine the story that has consumed me, and I dare say much of the world, since October 7: the Israel-Hamas war. It was not as inevitable as some want you to think.
I began thinking about this a few weeks ago, when I flew to Dubai to attend the UN climate summit. If you’ve never been there, the Dubai airport has some of the longest concourses in the world.
And when my Emirates flight landed, we parked close to one end of the B concourse – so when I looked out the window I saw lined up in a perfectly symmetrical row some 15 Emirates long-haul passenger jets. The thought occurred to me: What is the essential ingredient that Dubai has and Gaza lacks? Because both began, in one sense, as the convergence of sand and seawater at crucial intersections of the world.
The UAE leadership has converted its promontory on the Persian Gulf into one of the world’s most prosperous crossroads for trade, tourism, transport, innovation, shipping and golf.
It’s not oil – oil plays only a small role in Dubai’s diversified economy today. And it’s not democracy. Dubai is not a democracy and does not aspire to be one. But people flock to live here from all over the world – its population of more than 3.5 million has surged since the outbreak of COVID-19. Why? The short answer is visionary leadership.
Dubai has benefited from two generations of monarchs in the United Arab Emirates who had a powerful vision of how the UAE in general and the emirate of Dubai in particular could choose to be Arab, modern, pluralistic, globalised and embracing of a moderate interpretation of Islam.
Their formula incorporates a radical openness to the world, an emphasis on free markets and education, a ban on extremist political Islam, relatively little corruption, a strong rule of law promulgated from the top down and a relentless commitment to economic diversification, talent recruitment and development.
There are a million things one could criticise about Dubai, from labour rights for the many foreign workers who run the place to real estate booms and busts, overbuilding and the lack of a truly free press or freedom of assembly, to name but a few.
But the fact that Arabs and others keep wanting to live, work, play and start businesses here shows the leadership has converted its promontory on the Persian Gulf into one of the world’s most prosperous crossroads for trade, tourism, transport, innovation, shipping and golf – with a skyline of skyscrapers – one, the Burj Khalifa stands at 830 metres – that would be the envy of Hong Kong or Manhattan.
And it has all been done in the shadow (and with the envy) of a dangerous Islamic Republic of Iran. When I first visited Dubai in 1980, there were still traditional wooden fishing dhows in the harbour.
Today, DP World, the Emirati logistics company, manages cargo logistics and port terminals all over the world. Any of Dubai’s neighbours – Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, Iran and Saudi Arabia – could have done the same with their similar coastlines, but it was the UAE that pulled it off by making the choices it made.
I toured the UN’s global climate conference site with the minister of state for international co-operation, Reem al-Hashimy, who oversaw the building of Dubai’s massive 2020 Expo City, repurposed to hold the event. In three hours, we were stopped at least six times by young UAE women in black robes in groups of two or three, who asked if I could step aside while they took selfies with Reem, or whether I would take the picture. She was their rock-star role model – this Harvard- and Tufts-educated, non-royal woman in a leadership role of government contractor.
Compare that with Gaza, where the role models today are Hamas martyrs in its endless war with Israel.
Destroyed buildings in the Gaza Strip, as seen from southern Israel. AP
Among the most ignorant and vile things said about this Israel-Hamas war is that Hamas had no choice – that its wars with Israel culminating on October 7 with a murderous rampage, the kidnappings of Israelis as young as 10 months and as old as 86 and the rape of Israeli women could somehow be excused as a justifiable jailbreak by pent-up males.
No.
Let’s go to the videotape: In September 2005, Ariel Sharon completed a unilateral withdrawal of all Israeli forces and settlements from Gaza, which Israel occupied in the 1967 war. In short order, Hamas began attacking the crossing points between Gaza and Israel to show that even if Israel was gone, the resistance movement wasn’t over; these crossing points were a lifeline for commerce and jobs, and Israel eventually reduced the number of crossings to two from six.
In January 2006, the Palestinians held elections hoping to give the Palestinian Authority legitimacy to run Gaza and the West Bank. There was a debate among Israeli, Palestinian and Bush administration officials over whether Hamas should be allowed to run in the elections – because it had rejected the Oslo peace accords with Israel.
Yossi Beilin, one of the Israeli architects of Oslo, said that he and others argued that Hamas should not be allowed to run, as did many members of Fatah, Yasser Arafat’s group, who had embraced Oslo and recognised Israel.
But the Bush team insisted that Hamas be permitted to run without embracing Oslo, hoping it would lose and this would be its ultimate refutation. Unfortunately, for complex reasons, Fatah ran unrealistically high numbers of candidates in many districts, dividing the vote, while the more disciplined Hamas ran carefully targeted slates and managed to win the parliamentary majority.
Hamas then faced a critical choice: Now that it controlled the Palestinian parliament, it could work within the Oslo Accords and the Paris protocol that governed economic ties between Israel, Gaza and the West Bank – or not.
Hamas chose not to – making a clash between Hamas and Fatah, which supported Oslo, inevitable. In the end, Hamas violently ousted Fatah from Gaza in 2007, killing some of its officials and making clear that it would not abide by the Oslo Accords or the Paris protocol. That led to the first Israeli economic blockade of Gaza – and what would be 22 years of on-and-off Hamas rocket attacks, Israeli checkpoint openings and closings, wars and cease-fires, all culminating on October 7.
These were fateful choices. Once Sharon pulled Israel out of Gaza, Palestinians were left, for the first time, with total control over a piece of land. Yes, it was an impoverished slice of sand and coastal seawater, with some agricultural areas. And it was not the ancestral home of most of its residents. But it was theirs to build anything they wanted.
Had Hamas embraced Oslo and chosen to build its own Dubai, not only would the world have lined up to aid and invest in it, it would have been the most powerful springboard conceivable for a Palestinian state in the West Bank, in the heart of the Palestinian ancestral homeland. Palestinians would have proved to themselves, to Israelis and to the world what they could do when they have their own territory.
But Hamas decided instead to make Gaza a springboard for destroying Israel. To put it another way, Hamas had a choice: to replicate Dubai in 2023 or replicate Hanoi, Vietnam, in 1968. It chose to replicate Hanoi, whose Củ Chi tunnel network served as the launchpad for the 1968 Tet offensive.
Hamas is not just engaged in some pure-as-the-driven-snow, anti-colonial struggle against Israel. Only Hamas’ useful idiots on US college campuses would believe that.
Hamas is engaged in a raw power struggle with Fatah over who will control Gaza and the West Bank, and it’s engaged in a power struggle in the region – alongside other pro-Muslim Brotherhood parties and regimes (such as Turkey and Qatar) – against pro-Western monarchies like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait and the UAE and military-led regimes like Egypt’s.
In that struggle, Hamas wanted Gaza isolated and in conflict with Israel because that allowed Hamas to maintain its iron-fisted political and Islamist grip over the strip, foregoing elections and controlling all the smuggling routes in and out, which funded its tunnels and war machine and the lifestyle of its leaders and loyalists – every bit as much as Iran’s Islamic regime today needs its hostility with the US to justify its iron grip over Iranian society and the Revolutionary Guard’s control of all of its smuggling.
Hamas had a choice: to replicate Dubai in 2023 or replicate Hanoi, Vietnam, in 1968, whose tunnel network served as the launchpad for war. AP
Every bit as much as Hezbollah needs its conflict with Israel to justify building its own army inside Lebanon, controlling its drug smuggling and not permitting any Lebanese government hostile to its interests to govern, no matter who is elected. And every bit as much as Russian President s Vladimir Putin needs his conflict with NATO to justify his grip on power, the militarisation of Russian society and his and his cronies’ looting of the state coffers.
This is now a common strategy for consolidating and holding power forever by a single political faction and disguising it with an ideology of resistance. It’s no wonder they all support one another.
There is so much to criticise about Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, which I have consistently opposed.
But please spare me the Harvard Yard nonsense that this war is all about the innocent, colonised oppressed and the evil, colonising oppressors; that Israel alone was responsible for the isolation of Gaza; and that the only choice Hamas had for years was to create an underground “skyline” of tunnels up to 70 metres deep and that its only choice on October 7 was martyrdom.
Hamas has never wavered from being more interested in destroying the Jewish state than in building a Palestinian one – because that goal of annihilating Israel is what has enabled Hamas to justify its hold on power indefinitely, even though Gaza has known only economic misery since Hamas seized control.
We do Palestinians who want and deserve a state of their own no favours by pretending otherwise.
Palestinians in Gaza know the truth. Fresh polling data reported by AFP indicates that on the eve of October 7, “many Gazans were hostile to Hamas ahead of the group’s brutal October 7 attack on Israel, with some describing its rule as a second occupation”.
As Hamas’ grip over Gaza is loosened, I predict we will hear a lot more of these voices in Gaza on what they really think of Hamas, and it will be embarrassing to Hamas’ apologists on US campuses.
But our story about agency and choices does not stop there.
Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s longest-serving prime minister – 16 years – also made choices. And even before this war, he made terrible ones – for Israel and for Jews all over the world.
The list is long: Before this war, Netanyahu actively worked to keep the Palestinians divided and weak by strengthening Hamas in Gaza with billions of dollars from Qatar, while simultaneously working to discredit and delegitimise the more moderate Palestinian Authority in Ramallah, committed to Oslo and nonviolence in the West Bank.
Netanyahu’s goal has always been to destroy the Oslo option once and for all. AP
That way Netanyahu could tell every US president, in effect: I’d love to make peace with the Palestinians, but they are divided, and moreover, the best of them can’t control the West Bank and the worst of them control Gaza. So what do you want from me?
Netanyahu’s goal has always been to destroy the Oslo option once and for all.
In that, Bibi and Hamas have always needed each other: Bibi to tell the US and Israelis that he had no choice, and Hamas to tell Palestinians in Gaza and its new and naive supporters worldwide that the Palestinians’ only choice was armed struggle led by Hamas.
The only exit from this mutually assured destruction is to bring in some transformed version of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank – or a whole new PLO-appointed government of Palestinian technocrats – in partnership with moderate Arab states like Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.
But when I raise that with many Israelis right now, they tell me, “Tom, it’s not the time. No one wants to hear it.”
That makes me want to scream: No, it is exactly the time. Don’t they get it? Netanyahu’s greatest political achievement has been to persuade Israelis and the world that it’s never the right time to talk about the morally corrosive occupation and how to help build a credible Palestinian partner to take it off Israel’s hands.
He and the settlers wore everyone down. When I covered the State Department in the early 1990s, West Bank settlements were routinely described by US officials as “obstacles to peace.” But that phrase was gradually dropped. The Trump administration even decided to stop calling the West Bank “occupied” territory.
The reason I insist on talking about these choices now is because Israel is being surrounded by what I call Iran’s landcraft carriers (as opposed to our aircraft carriers): Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and Shiite militias in Iraq.
Iran is squeezing Israel into a multi-front war with its proxies. I truly worry for Israel.
But Israel will have neither the sympathy of the world that it needs nor the multiple allies it needs to confront this Iranian octopus, nor the Palestinian partners it needs to govern any post-Hamas Gaza, nor the lasting support of its best friend in the world, President Joe Biden, unless it is ready to choose a long-term pathway for separating from the Palestinians with an improved, legitimate Palestinian partner.
Biden has been shouting that in Netanyahu’s ears in their private calls.
For all these reasons, if Netanyahu keeps refusing because, once again, politically, the time is not right for him, Biden will have to choose, too – between America’s interests and Netanyahu’s.
Netanyahu has been out to undermine the cornerstone of US Middle East policy for the past three decades – the Oslo framework of two states for two people that guarantees Palestinian statehood and Israeli security, which neither side ever gave its best shot.
Destroying the Oslo framework is not in America’s interest.
In sum, this war is so ugly, deadly and painful, it is no wonder that so many Palestinians and Israelis want to just focus on survival and not on any of the choices that got them here. Haaretz writer Dahlia Scheindlin put it beautifully in a recent essay:
“The situation today is so terrible that people run from reality as they run from rockets – and hide in the shelter of their blind spots. It’s pointless to wag fingers. The only thing left to do is try and change that reality.”
For me, choosing that path will always be in season.
Very good article @RK, the Dubai bit seems a bit rose-coloured, but I take his point. The rest is about as balanced a commentary as I have read. Nice one.
Yes that was a good read RK. Points out it’s the Israeli government that white ants the peace deals. Rightly points out also why Hamas don’t want peace either.
Yep concur RK.
Good article, but yep little rose coloured glasses.
Reckon this one on the money also.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/02/israel-allies-peac...
Roady
Thank u for posting the article and showing me that I was wrong , again
There IS good leadership in some Arab countries . No surprise they are the diplomatic corps trying to negotiate Cease Fires and hostage releases.
So , an Arab country can look after Jerusalem , after all .
The Israeli’s are desperate to throw out their current leader !
With good leadership , the ME , may prosper , after all , again .
Become the Garden of Eden , again , I pray .
Edit
The Arabs rally behind STRONG leadership that doesn’t seem to stuff around .
Monarchy may work there better than Mufti.
Edit 2
The article also pointed out clearly for me that this war in Israel atm , is NOT decided , YET !
The Iranian Land Carriers are still cruising ALL around Israel .
Only one is cornered and taking on water .
It’s still operational and can be easily fixed
Edit
Perhaps it’s time We called a spade a spade .
Israel is not fighting Hamas , they are in a terrible fight with the one Arab country that is building nuclear !
Do we want Iran OR Israel to win this fn War ??????!
indo-dreaming wrote:Anyway good news this morning, a key Hamas figure assassinated in Beirut, and another key leader in Gaza was killed the other day (second vid below)
Good to see things now seem to be going into a more targeted mode, there has also been some withdraw of IDF troops from North Gaza in recent days and shuffling of things that seems to indicate a shift in stages of the war to perhaps a more targeted approach, that hopefully take's pressure off IDF and allow them to get the job completed.
Hopefully they can also take out Sinwar they seem to be hot on his heels just missed him a few times apparently .
And yes leaders can be replaced, but you still need to take them out, who ever steps up next needs to know they risk also losing their life's.
Yes Indo, all that.
And before you accuse me of being Hamas lover number whatever, I remind you I have no side to take here, just a couple of observations.
Isn't it interesting that they can take out one guy with pinpoint accuracy in another state whilst "accidentally" killing so many civilians in Gaza trying to do the same thing, and having to carpet bomb civilian neighborhoods and infrastructure to do it.
Isn't it interesting that Israel can bomb four other states and still be perceived as the victim.
Hamas are a blight on their people, peace in the ME, and the Muslim and wider world.
But they aren't alone there.
Whilst Indo is probably busily composing a reply to me based on the "human shield" argument, let me explain why I don't buy into that.
Firstly, it is not a defence to war crimes.
Secondly, Gaza's size and population density make it impossible for it's residents to not be human shields, particularly when they are trapped like mice in a cage with no means of escape, no safe zones and they are being displaced to areas the Israeli's then bomb anyway.
Thirdly, Hamas are a guerilla army. They don't all reside or gather in one convenient place, or line up on a field of battle against their opponents. Guerilla tactics are to attack then blend and disappear. The US and Israel have dealt with these tactics, with various degrees of success I admit, in other theaters of war. Israel has destroyed terrorist leaderships in the past without leveling the whole fucking place and killing thousands of innocent civilians. They have the power and technology of the most powerful military on Earth. The Americans killed Al-Zawahiri (Al Qaeda #2) with a drone strike while he was standing on his balcony using a weapon that didn't even damage the building or kill any of the people in the room behind him. Some kind of expanding blade that just turned him to mince meat and didn't even leave a blast mark.
I think the human shield argument is flawed and is just cover for Israels real intent which is to pave the way for Israeli settler neighborhoods to be constructed in Gaza.
Time will tell.
Adam
I have known u for 40’years and am not sure of your ancestry .
Over the years , a few of your views make me wonder if u are Irish .
Will guess , English , with your family here about 69 generations .
That French diplomat U highlighted ( pissed with Conrad guy ) terribly about what HIS forefathers, thought a Good Idea at the time .
A real Spilt Milk complainer lol
I said above , that I think this fight is between Iran and Israel .
With the hand your and my forefathers dealt us , I stand with Israel .
We put them there .
Edit
Shit , Pop alert .
If u guys have been here since before WW2 Adam , I am wrong, again , again .
Ok , just my dads side was English , but I must claim responsibility v.
edit 3
I don’t ever want to talk to u on SN again , just on the phone , please .
Houthi and the Big Ships:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/us-forces-sink-houthi-boats-in...
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