The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
Merry Christmas.
Here’s a story about surfing.
sypkan wrote:something for the 'decolonisation' set to ponder...
And thats not even part of the original Jewish temple, this is part of the second temple that was destroyed by Romans, the first is much older 957BCE but was destroyed by Babylonian Empire.
Crazy thing is ive seen Video from the last few weeks where the Iron dome is taking out rockets above this area, imagine if one of Hamas rockets hit that mosque the whole muslim world would start world war three as of course it would some how be Israel's fault..
Hamas put out these weird promo videos from time to time trying to impress people, the videos are surprisingly very well filmed and edited but like everything else they do are full of BS.
Its always good watching people who know what they are talking about break thing's down and expose the bullshit
Comment section is worth a read too.
&t=0s 
Aahhhh SBW. Everything Israel says is untrue. Everything Hamas says is true.
Sad how some deny so much to justify supporting jihadist/terrorist, good to the see the New York time's considered quite left leaning reporting this though.
Article from 28th Dec
"Screams without words’: How Hamas weaponised sexual violence
An investigation uncovered new details showing a pattern of rape, mutilation and extreme brutality against women in the attacks on Israel.
At first, she was known simply as “the woman in the black dress.”
In a grainy video, you can see her, lying on her back, dress torn, legs spread, vagina exposed. Her face is burned beyond recognition, and her right hand covers her eyes.
The video was shot in the early hours of October 8 by a woman searching for a missing friend at the site of the rave in southern Israel where, the day before, Hamas terrorists massacred hundreds of young Israelis.
As the terrorists closed in on her, trapped on a highway in a line of cars of people trying to flee the party, she sent one final WhatsApp message to her family: “You don’t understand.”
Based largely on the video evidence — which was verified by The New York Times — Israeli police officials said they believed that Abdush was raped, and she has become a symbol of the horrors visited upon Israeli women and girls during the October 7 attacks.
Israeli officials say that everywhere Hamas terrorists struck — the rave, the military bases along the Gaza Strip border and the kibbutzim — they brutalised women.
A two-month investigation by the Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on October 7.The video went viral, with thousands of people responding, desperate to know if the woman in the black dress was their missing friend, sister or daughter.
One family knew exactly who she was: Gal Abdush, mother of two from a working-class town in central Israel, who disappeared from the rave that night with her husband.
Relying on video footage, photographs, GPS data from mobile phones and interviews with more than 150 people, including witnesses, medical personnel, soldiers and rape counsellors, the Times identified at least seven locations where Israeli women and girls appear to have been sexually assaulted or mutilated.
Four witnesses described in graphic detail seeing women raped and killed at two different places along Route 232, the same highway where Abdush’s half-naked body was found sprawled on the road at a third location.
And the Times interviewed several soldiers and volunteer medics who together described finding more than 30 bodies of women and girls in and around the rave site and in two kibbutzim in a similar state as Abdush’s — legs spread, clothes torn off, signs of abuse in their genital areas.
Many of the accounts are difficult to bear, and the visual evidence is disturbing to see.
Continued here, its a very long read:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-...
And it wasn’t only Hamas doing terrible things. Many Palestinians also chose to partake in atrocities and rejoice in the atrocities committed. Men, woman and children all rejoiced.
Just a peace loving bunch of people.
How, exactly would Iran close the Mediterranean sea? It's a pretty big sea and a NATO lake, so they'd last about 50 seconds before being swatted. Blocking the Suez, maybe.
Or they could try the other end of the sea, at the Pillars of Hercules. Trouble for them is, there's a RN base there and they'd last not very long trying that either.
Roadkill wrote:And it wasn’t only Hamas doing terrible things. Many Palestinians also chose to partake in atrocities and rejoice in the atrocities committed. Men, woman and children all rejoiced.
Just a peace loving bunch of people.
Maybe stick to the sandwiches thread Roady!
You excelled there! Not so complicated.
southernraw wrote:Roadkill wrote:And it wasn’t only Hamas doing terrible things. Many Palestinians also chose to partake in atrocities and rejoice in the atrocities committed. Men, woman and children all rejoiced.
Just a peace loving bunch of people.
Maybe stick to the sandwiches thread Roady!
You excelled there! Not so complicated.
What I said was true. You can ignore it pretend it didn’t happen as much as you like.
But you can’t disprove it.
hehe. Just a little dig to round out the year Roady.
And most of what you're saying is true. No dispute.
Just think there's alot of intricacies that fit in between those spaces that change the story from black and w to a whole lot of grey.
Have a good new year.
I think SBW may be losing his commentary gig.
southernraw wrote:hehe. Just a little dig to round out the year Roady.
And most of what you're saying is true. No dispute.
Just think there's alot of intricacies that fit in between those spaces that change the story from black and w to a whole lot of grey.
Have a good new year.
And a safe New Year and a healthy 2024, SR. I hope you get a heap of amazing waves.
Cheers mate.
I probably could have put this in the USA thread but didn't want to derail it.
But recent polls in Israel show 40% of Israel'i's back Biden for re election compared to 27% for Trump
Which is a big turn around as in 2020 same polls showed 63% in favour of Trump and 17% Biden.
Traditionally Israeli's tend to support Republican party presidents.
I guess it's because Biden has shown fairly strong support for Israel (more so initially), and Trump is kind of unpredictable and could just go fk you guys.
indo-dreaming wrote:I probably could have put this in the USA thread but didn't want to derail it.
But recent polls in Israel show 40% of Israel'i's back Biden for re election compared to 27% for Trump
Which is a big turn around as in 2020 same polls showed 63% in favour of Trump and 17% Biden.
Traditionally Israeli's tend to support Republican party presidents.
I guess it's because Biden has shown fairly strong support for Israel (more so initially), and Trump is kind of unpredictable and could just go fk you guys.
Yep same goes for Australia...
@Indo "Sad how some deny so much to justify supporting jihadist/terrorist, good to the see the New York time's considered quite left leaning reporting this though."
No one here supports Hamas or terrorists.
You've been told this countless times.
You can't produce a single post from anyone here supporting them.
But some here, most notably you, are fucking cheerleading a genocide in a sick demented effort to somehow impress a bunch of strangers on a surf website of your "conservative" "anti woke" credentials and narrow, twisted world view.
Your self diagnosed autism (pffft) is the least of your problems. The moral disengagement smacks of sociopathy, maybe worse. You proved what a racist you are during the Voice debate. You are proving what an arsehole you are by taking the side of war criminals and justifying the murder of tens of thousands of innocents because you buy into the Israeli bullshit that that is the only way to defeat Hamas.
Well here's a tip for you cowboy, you can't kill an idea. They won't defeat Hamas even if they level and take over the whole of Gaza. In fact their actions are only ensuring they will be attacked, be it Hamas, or Islamic Jihad, or Hezbollah or any of the other proxies of enemy states for generations.
Israel will be an international pariah when they eventually are forced to end the revenge killing. There is already movement at the Hague which has started to ruffle the feathers of the US who is politely (at the moment) seeking to dissuade the Swiss from pursuing investigating Israeli leaders and military for war crimes. Won't work. There will be charges and prosecutions just like the Nazis and the Khmer Rouge and the Rwandans and the Yugoslav war criminals. Just watch.
Here's another tip for you dickwad. You support terrorists yourself. Prior to the establishment of the state of Israel the Zionists advocating for it were,,,drumroll...terrorist groups who carried out terror attacks and guess who else they killed besides Arabs...drumroll...British, our allies. Google the Irgun, the Lehi, the Haganah and the Palmach. Google the attack on the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where the Irgun killed 92 of our British allies who we had just fought WW2 alongside. Israel was created, in large part, as a result of terrorism undertaken by Jewish Zionist terrorist groups.
One final little nug for you you terrorist supporting, genocide cheering dipsht. Hamas only exists because Israel created it and supported it to counter and undermine the Palestinian Authority and groups like Fatah.
Bibi created and propped Hamas up for years and it blew up in his face.
If anyone supports terrorists on these pages it is actually you. You are just too stupid and up yourself to know it, so busy trying to show a bunch of people who don't give a fuck what a conservative not woke gaylord you are. I'm a bit fucken sick of it and you, hence this post.
Simplistic nonsense. War has objectives. Look at the Nazis and the Japanese, You finish the job or you don’t start the job. If you don’t win completely you lose.
If you don’t remove the problem completely you have to start again another day.
Hopefully someone like Egypt or the saudis will put their hand up to run Gaza as it needs Arabic leaders. Then you could have two states. It should be multi cultural like Singapore.
The world needs to stare at Iran instead of Israel as they are the real problem and they are also the women violating war mongering trouble makers.
They should be dealt with swiftly and right now.
As a side question not looking into the morality, ethics or geopolitical situation of this war but pure practicalities for anyone out there with military knowledge.
I watched a couple of videos by Scott Ritter, ex weapons inspector, US marine and by looks of it a bit of a sexual deviant as charged grooming young girls. Source Wiki .. ha
His gist is the the IDF have basically lost this war both on the ground and propaganda wise, and if they open up other front with Hezbollah they could end up losing Israel as a State as it is now. Pretty heavy conclusions and due to new warfare methods, drones etc the USA navy really cannot help out that much, Houthis etc blocking sea lanes. Talks a lot about how Hezbollah have huge stockpile now thanks to Iran of precision missiles that will make iron dome pretty much useless if full scale war eventuates.
Also reckons Hezbollah soldiers out class IDF and have less value on their life etc .
Not my opinion or thoughts, but found his theory which he could seem to back up pretty frightening, especially for Israeli's in the future.
I agree optimist everything you said is simplistic nonsense, great post adam12
Epic post @adam12.
Nailed it although sadly it won't get through.
Wars are great for killing Ideas !
Good and bad ones .
Adam mentioned a few like Pol Pot and Hitler .
U shouldn’t COMMIT to a war without an objective eg Japan and oil !
U definitely don’t STOP until u reach your objective .
This is not a normal little flare up .
This is War and there ARE rules of War .
Simple stuff imho .
Ukrainian people want the war to end . Their leader doesn’t, as he hasn’t achieved his objective .
Yes, some like to hold 1 side to a higher moral code than the other. Sexual assault as a weapon of terror…excused. War crimes…excused. Terrorism…excused. Victimhood…supported. Excuses…supported.
It’s a good thing we ain’t talking morals.
Look out Larry has woken from his stupor!
andy-mac wrote:As a side question not looking into the morality, ethics or geopolitical situation of this war but pure practicalities for anyone out there with military knowledge.
I watched a couple of videos by Scott Ritter, ex weapons inspector, US marine and by looks of it a bit of a sexual deviant as charged grooming young girls. Source Wiki .. ha
His gist is the the IDF have basically lost this war both on the ground and propaganda wise, and if they open up other front with Hezbollah they could end up losing Israel as a State as it is now. Pretty heavy conclusions and due to new warfare methods, drones etc the USA navy really cannot help out that much, Houthis etc blocking sea lanes. Talks a lot about how Hezbollah have huge stockpile now thanks to Iran of precision missiles that will make iron dome pretty much useless if full scale war eventuates.
Also reckons Hezbollah soldiers out class IDF and have less value on their life etc .
Not my opinion or thoughts, but found his theory which he could seem to back up pretty frightening, especially for Israeli's in the future.
Ive listened to so many different military and non military opinions, i think its like anything these days no matter what you will always find a few odd people even high qualified with a complete opposite view to the majority, sometimes maybe its an honest viewpoint they really believe sometimes just grifting playing it up for an audience no one else is, or even supported financially by other force's with agendas
Just look at Covid for a great example and those very high qualified guys that were saying some strange things or even climate change you get the odd quite qualified person with different view's.
I think it goes against logic to say Israel has lost the war, firstly its not over and probably quite some way from being so, i dont think you can say anyone has won or lost as such right now, but i think it would be pretty insane to say Hamas is winning, you could say Israel is winning though as the goals of Israel are moving closer everyday as long as Israel maintain USA support and can continue the job, it should get most goals achieved or close.
Personally i hope like Ukraine this just fades out of the media focus and they move onto something else so Israel can get the job done without the media spotlight and outside interference.
The real point when you could say Israel has won the war is when Hamas are taken out of power in government, but even if this ended tomorrow Israel are still winners.
Half those kind napped are back safe, Hamas are severally weakened they have lost an estimated 8,000 soldiers including many key leaders, in the North they are close to being done but yes heavy resistance in the areas left, we have even seen large numbers of Hamas surrender, countless tunnels destroyed, countless base's and control centres destroyed, huge stock piles of rockets and other ammunition destroyed, the places these things are made destroyed, and IDF have ceased large amounts of information about their operations and tunnels which helps IDF progress out even more
Much of what Hamas has spent 15+ years creating is destroyed, they would take a decade to build up to where they were and you would have to think if Hamas somehow stayed in power and continue to blow all funding given after this on tunnels and rockets instead of rebuilding for the people then the people might actually wake up and turn against Hamas, although they seem quite happy to be used as human shields so maybe not.
Yeah sure there have been other countries cause issue's and action on other borders, but its not been to the extent that Hamas would have wanted, they would have hopped for a full on war on all borders and countries like Iran to really get involved.
The experts ive listened to have said we will really know Hamas is close to being done when Hezbollah really get in on the action, my understanding is its not the soldiers training that is the big difference between Hamas and Hezbollah but more military capacity especially the rockets/missles they posses
But really what has Hamas achieved?
Really they haven't achieved much after 7th October, we even have Hamas leaders turning on each other and saying Hamas fucked up and put back Gaza 20 years.
From all ive listened too, this war wont be over quickly, once it calms down there will be smaller pockets of Hamas and take a long time to clear and destroy tunnels etc and yes Hamas as a terrorist group might survive, and the threat will probably never be totally taken away, Israel seem realistic about this talking about widening the buffer zone on the border with other security increases, you dont do if you think your are going to have a peace loving friendly neighbour.
BTW. The Iron dome is only for short range rockets, they have other defence systems like the Arrow and Davids Sling for mid and long range missiles, that Hezbollah and Iran etc have, probably more unproven but they still have a system to deal with it.
@Adam, im really not going to waste my time on the same conversation, its pretty clear from your post and others where you are at, from the very start of this we have seen a lot of post dissing Israel and making excuse's for Hamas, and pretty much none dissing Hamas and giving support to Israel, you and others are nothing more than jihadist/terrorist supporters and a total traitor to the West, if it was up to me id send you to Gaza so for a reality check.
Great post Adam-12. Wasted on the target audience unfortunately.
Good job bringing the thread back Indo with more of your invaluable insights.
andy-mac wrote:As a side question not looking into the morality, ethics or geopolitical situation of this war but pure practicalities for anyone out there with military knowledge.
I watched a couple of videos by Scott Ritter, ex weapons inspector, US marine and by looks of it a bit of a sexual deviant as charged grooming young girls. Source Wiki .. ha
His gist is the the IDF have basically lost this war both on the ground and propaganda wise, and if they open up other front with Hezbollah they could end up losing Israel as a State as it is now. Pretty heavy conclusions and due to new warfare methods, drones etc the USA navy really cannot help out that much, Houthis etc blocking sea lanes. Talks a lot about how Hezbollah have huge stockpile now thanks to Iran of precision missiles that will make iron dome pretty much useless if full scale war eventuates.
Also reckons Hezbollah soldiers out class IDF and have less value on their life etc .
Not my opinion or thoughts, but found his theory which he could seem to back up pretty frightening, especially for Israeli's in the future.
The houthi sea lanes bit is interesting as companies can go the long way, but also it seems if a China/Iran ally, your ship won't be targeted; if an Israel ally you will. In that sense it's an extension of Russia in Crimea/Georgia/Ukraine, China SCS pressure, Russia helping African coups - only this time its the other of that triumvirate, Iran, pushing it's geopolitical range. As well as the Israel conflict, make no mistake, the authoritarian powers are on the front foot taking territory in the periphery of the world-continent. How far can they extend the Western militaries? Everyone is re-arming fast, like 1930s fast. Eventual play for all the marbles is coming.
To sort out the houthis and their missiles, would take strikes on the soil of Yemen, and so far the Western powers are unwilling to do this. With a bit of targeting, that could be done. Also to point out that Iran pressure & attacks and political moves are trying to get US bases out of Iraq - part of same plan.
indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:As a side question not looking into the morality, ethics or geopolitical situation of this war but pure practicalities for anyone out there with military knowledge.
I watched a couple of videos by Scott Ritter, ex weapons inspector, US marine and by looks of it a bit of a sexual deviant as charged grooming young girls. Source Wiki .. ha
His gist is the the IDF have basically lost this war both on the ground and propaganda wise, and if they open up other front with Hezbollah they could end up losing Israel as a State as it is now. Pretty heavy conclusions and due to new warfare methods, drones etc the USA navy really cannot help out that much, Houthis etc blocking sea lanes. Talks a lot about how Hezbollah have huge stockpile now thanks to Iran of precision missiles that will make iron dome pretty much useless if full scale war eventuates.
Also reckons Hezbollah soldiers out class IDF and have less value on their life etc .
Not my opinion or thoughts, but found his theory which he could seem to back up pretty frightening, especially for Israeli's in the future.Ive listened to so many different military and non military opinions, i think its like anything these days no matter what you will always find a few odd people even high qualified with a complete opposite view to the majority, sometimes maybe its an honest viewpoint they really believe sometimes just grifting playing it up for an audience no one else is, or even supported financially by other force's with agendas
Just look at Covid for a great example and those very high qualified guys that were saying some strange things or even climate change you get the odd quite qualified person with different view's.
I think it goes against logic to say Israel has lost the war, firstly its not over and probably quite some way from being so, i dont think you can say anyone has won or lost as such right now, but i think it would be pretty insane to say Hamas is winning, you could say Israel is winning though as the goals of Israel are moving closer everyday as long as Israel maintain USA support and can continue the job, it should get most goals achieved or close.
Personally i hope like Ukraine this just fades out of the media focus and they move onto something else so Israel can get the job done without the media spotlight and outside interference.
The real point when you could say Israel has won the war is when Hamas are taken out of power in government, but even if this ended tomorrow Israel are still winners.
Half those kind napped are back safe, Hamas are severally weakened they have lost an estimated 8,000 soldiers including many key leaders, in the North they are close to being done but yes heavy resistance in the areas left, we have even seen large numbers of Hamas surrender, countless tunnels destroyed, countless base's and control centres destroyed, huge stock piles of rockets and other ammunition destroyed, the places these things are made destroyed, and IDF have ceased large amounts of information about their operations and tunnels which helps IDF progress out even more
Much of what Hamas has spent 15+ years creating is destroyed, they would take a decade to build up to where they were and you would have to think if Hamas continue to blow all funding given after this on tunnels and rockets instead of rebuilding for the people then the people might actually wake up and turn against Hamas, although they seem quite happy to be used as human shields so maybe not.
Yeah sure there have been other countries cause issue's and action on other borders, but its not been to the extent that Hamas would have wanted, they would have hopped for a full on war on all borders and countries like Iran to really get involved.
The experts ive listened to have said we will really know Hamas is close to being done when Hezbollah really get in on the action, my understanding is its not the soldiers training that is the big difference between Hamas and Hezbollah but more military capacity especially the rockets/missles they posses
But really what has Hamas achieved?
Really they haven't achieved much after 7th October, we even have Hamas leaders turning on each other and saying Hamas fucked up and put back Gaza 20 years.
From all ive listened too, this war wont be over quickly, once it calms down there will be smaller pockets of Hamas and take a long time to clear and destroy tunnels etc and yes Hamas as a terrorist group might survive, and the threat will probably never be totally taken away, Israel seem realistic about this talking about widening the buffer zone on the border with other security increases, you dont do if you think your are going to have a peace loving friendly neighbour.
BTW. The Iron dome is only for short range rockets, they have other defence systems like the Arrow and Davids Sling for mid and long range missiles, that Hezbollah and Iran etc have, probably more unproven but they still have a system to deal with it.
@Adam, im really not going to waste my time on the same conversation, its pretty clear from your post and others where you are at, from the very start of this we have seen a lot of post dissing Israel and making excuse's for Hamas, and pretty much none dissing Hamas and giving support to Israel, you and others are nothing more than jihadist/terrorist supporter and a total traitor to the West, if it was up to me id send you to Gaza so for a reality check.
Why don’t you go? Your the one advocating for large scale death and destruction from the safety of your home in a conflict free country, being a bit of an expert. Pick up a gun and defend your western values. Offer the IDF some of your expert opinions.
You are so dumb you don’t even realise that the biggest threat to the illusion of western values is the current ruling class of the Western Hemisphere.
But like I said, why not join the IDF and shoot a kid before they join Hamas and become a threat to your family on Phillip Island.
Convert to Judaism, become a Zionist and the IDF will help you move into someone else’s house. Get your own bit of dirt close to the action. Settle in the West Bank. Shoot some kids. Blow up some houses. Ruin someone’s crops. Hoo Rah!!western values!
soggydog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:As a side question not looking into the morality, ethics or geopolitical situation of this war but pure practicalities for anyone out there with military knowledge.
I watched a couple of videos by Scott Ritter, ex weapons inspector, US marine and by looks of it a bit of a sexual deviant as charged grooming young girls. Source Wiki .. ha
His gist is the the IDF have basically lost this war both on the ground and propaganda wise, and if they open up other front with Hezbollah they could end up losing Israel as a State as it is now. Pretty heavy conclusions and due to new warfare methods, drones etc the USA navy really cannot help out that much, Houthis etc blocking sea lanes. Talks a lot about how Hezbollah have huge stockpile now thanks to Iran of precision missiles that will make iron dome pretty much useless if full scale war eventuates.
Also reckons Hezbollah soldiers out class IDF and have less value on their life etc .
Not my opinion or thoughts, but found his theory which he could seem to back up pretty frightening, especially for Israeli's in the future.Ive listened to so many different military and non military opinions, i think its like anything these days no matter what you will always find a few odd people even high qualified with a complete opposite view to the majority, sometimes maybe its an honest viewpoint they really believe sometimes just grifting playing it up for an audience no one else is, or even supported financially by other force's with agendas
Just look at Covid for a great example and those very high qualified guys that were saying some strange things or even climate change you get the odd quite qualified person with different view's.
I think it goes against logic to say Israel has lost the war, firstly its not over and probably quite some way from being so, i dont think you can say anyone has won or lost as such right now, but i think it would be pretty insane to say Hamas is winning, you could say Israel is winning though as the goals of Israel are moving closer everyday as long as Israel maintain USA support and can continue the job, it should get most goals achieved or close.
Personally i hope like Ukraine this just fades out of the media focus and they move onto something else so Israel can get the job done without the media spotlight and outside interference.
The real point when you could say Israel has won the war is when Hamas are taken out of power in government, but even if this ended tomorrow Israel are still winners.
Half those kind napped are back safe, Hamas are severally weakened they have lost an estimated 8,000 soldiers including many key leaders, in the North they are close to being done but yes heavy resistance in the areas left, we have even seen large numbers of Hamas surrender, countless tunnels destroyed, countless base's and control centres destroyed, huge stock piles of rockets and other ammunition destroyed, the places these things are made destroyed, and IDF have ceased large amounts of information about their operations and tunnels which helps IDF progress out even more
Much of what Hamas has spent 15+ years creating is destroyed, they would take a decade to build up to where they were and you would have to think if Hamas continue to blow all funding given after this on tunnels and rockets instead of rebuilding for the people then the people might actually wake up and turn against Hamas, although they seem quite happy to be used as human shields so maybe not.
Yeah sure there have been other countries cause issue's and action on other borders, but its not been to the extent that Hamas would have wanted, they would have hopped for a full on war on all borders and countries like Iran to really get involved.
The experts ive listened to have said we will really know Hamas is close to being done when Hezbollah really get in on the action, my understanding is its not the soldiers training that is the big difference between Hamas and Hezbollah but more military capacity especially the rockets/missles they posses
But really what has Hamas achieved?
Really they haven't achieved much after 7th October, we even have Hamas leaders turning on each other and saying Hamas fucked up and put back Gaza 20 years.
From all ive listened too, this war wont be over quickly, once it calms down there will be smaller pockets of Hamas and take a long time to clear and destroy tunnels etc and yes Hamas as a terrorist group might survive, and the threat will probably never be totally taken away, Israel seem realistic about this talking about widening the buffer zone on the border with other security increases, you dont do if you think your are going to have a peace loving friendly neighbour.
BTW. The Iron dome is only for short range rockets, they have other defence systems like the Arrow and Davids Sling for mid and long range missiles, that Hezbollah and Iran etc have, probably more unproven but they still have a system to deal with it.
@Adam, im really not going to waste my time on the same conversation, its pretty clear from your post and others where you are at, from the very start of this we have seen a lot of post dissing Israel and making excuse's for Hamas, and pretty much none dissing Hamas and giving support to Israel, you and others are nothing more than jihadist/terrorist supporter and a total traitor to the West, if it was up to me id send you to Gaza so for a reality check.
Why don’t you go? Your the one advocating for large scale death and destruction from the safety of your home in a conflict free country, being a bit of an expert. Pick up a gun and defend your western values. Offer the IDF some of your expert opinions.
You are so dumb you don’t even realise that the biggest threat to the illusion of western values is the current ruling class of the Western Hemisphere.
But like I said, why not join the IDF and shoot a kid before they join Hamas and become a threat to your family on Phillip Island.Convert to Judaism, become a Zionist and the IDF will help you move into someone else’s house. Get your own bit of dirt close to the action. Settle in the West Bank. Shoot some kids. Blow up some houses. Ruin someone’s crops. Hoo Rah!!western values!
100% smart from Soggybiscuit, as usual.
Western values as opposed to the other.
Anti woman, anti all human rights, no schooling for girls, throw gays off rooftops, kill non believers , kill journalists, zero accountability, honour killing when a girl smiles at a man. No way can a woman drive a car. Etc etc
Gawd you have zero ability to think, soggybiscuit.
velocityjohnno wrote:andy-mac wrote:As a side question not looking into the morality, ethics or geopolitical situation of this war but pure practicalities for anyone out there with military knowledge.
I watched a couple of videos by Scott Ritter, ex weapons inspector, US marine and by looks of it a bit of a sexual deviant as charged grooming young girls. Source Wiki .. ha
His gist is the the IDF have basically lost this war both on the ground and propaganda wise, and if they open up other front with Hezbollah they could end up losing Israel as a State as it is now. Pretty heavy conclusions and due to new warfare methods, drones etc the USA navy really cannot help out that much, Houthis etc blocking sea lanes. Talks a lot about how Hezbollah have huge stockpile now thanks to Iran of precision missiles that will make iron dome pretty much useless if full scale war eventuates.
Also reckons Hezbollah soldiers out class IDF and have less value on their life etc .
Not my opinion or thoughts, but found his theory which he could seem to back up pretty frightening, especially for Israeli's in the future.The houthi sea lanes bit is interesting as companies can go the long way, but also it seems if a China/Iran ally, your ship won't be targeted; if an Israel ally you will. In that sense it's an extension of Russia in Crimea/Georgia/Ukraine, China SCS pressure, Russia helping African coups - only this time its the other of that triumvirate, Iran, pushing it's geopolitical range. As well as the Israel conflict, make no mistake, the authoritarian powers are on the front foot taking territory in the periphery of the world-continent. How far can they extend the Western militaries? Everyone is re-arming fast, like 1930s fast. Eventual play for all the marbles is coming.
To sort out the houthis and their missiles, would take strikes on the soil of Yemen, and so far the Western powers are unwilling to do this. With a bit of targeting, that could be done. Also to point out that Iran pressure & attacks and political moves are trying to get US bases out of Iraq - part of same plan.
Cheers for your insight VJ...
soggydog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:As a side question not looking into the morality, ethics or geopolitical situation of this war but pure practicalities for anyone out there with military knowledge.
I watched a couple of videos by Scott Ritter, ex weapons inspector, US marine and by looks of it a bit of a sexual deviant as charged grooming young girls. Source Wiki .. ha
His gist is the the IDF have basically lost this war both on the ground and propaganda wise, and if they open up other front with Hezbollah they could end up losing Israel as a State as it is now. Pretty heavy conclusions and due to new warfare methods, drones etc the USA navy really cannot help out that much, Houthis etc blocking sea lanes. Talks a lot about how Hezbollah have huge stockpile now thanks to Iran of precision missiles that will make iron dome pretty much useless if full scale war eventuates.
Also reckons Hezbollah soldiers out class IDF and have less value on their life etc .
Not my opinion or thoughts, but found his theory which he could seem to back up pretty frightening, especially for Israeli's in the future.Ive listened to so many different military and non military opinions, i think its like anything these days no matter what you will always find a few odd people even high qualified with a complete opposite view to the majority, sometimes maybe its an honest viewpoint they really believe sometimes just grifting playing it up for an audience no one else is, or even supported financially by other force's with agendas
Just look at Covid for a great example and those very high qualified guys that were saying some strange things or even climate change you get the odd quite qualified person with different view's.
I think it goes against logic to say Israel has lost the war, firstly its not over and probably quite some way from being so, i dont think you can say anyone has won or lost as such right now, but i think it would be pretty insane to say Hamas is winning, you could say Israel is winning though as the goals of Israel are moving closer everyday as long as Israel maintain USA support and can continue the job, it should get most goals achieved or close.
Personally i hope like Ukraine this just fades out of the media focus and they move onto something else so Israel can get the job done without the media spotlight and outside interference.
The real point when you could say Israel has won the war is when Hamas are taken out of power in government, but even if this ended tomorrow Israel are still winners.
Half those kind napped are back safe, Hamas are severally weakened they have lost an estimated 8,000 soldiers including many key leaders, in the North they are close to being done but yes heavy resistance in the areas left, we have even seen large numbers of Hamas surrender, countless tunnels destroyed, countless base's and control centres destroyed, huge stock piles of rockets and other ammunition destroyed, the places these things are made destroyed, and IDF have ceased large amounts of information about their operations and tunnels which helps IDF progress out even more
Much of what Hamas has spent 15+ years creating is destroyed, they would take a decade to build up to where they were and you would have to think if Hamas continue to blow all funding given after this on tunnels and rockets instead of rebuilding for the people then the people might actually wake up and turn against Hamas, although they seem quite happy to be used as human shields so maybe not.
Yeah sure there have been other countries cause issue's and action on other borders, but its not been to the extent that Hamas would have wanted, they would have hopped for a full on war on all borders and countries like Iran to really get involved.
The experts ive listened to have said we will really know Hamas is close to being done when Hezbollah really get in on the action, my understanding is its not the soldiers training that is the big difference between Hamas and Hezbollah but more military capacity especially the rockets/missles they posses
But really what has Hamas achieved?
Really they haven't achieved much after 7th October, we even have Hamas leaders turning on each other and saying Hamas fucked up and put back Gaza 20 years.
From all ive listened too, this war wont be over quickly, once it calms down there will be smaller pockets of Hamas and take a long time to clear and destroy tunnels etc and yes Hamas as a terrorist group might survive, and the threat will probably never be totally taken away, Israel seem realistic about this talking about widening the buffer zone on the border with other security increases, you dont do if you think your are going to have a peace loving friendly neighbour.
BTW. The Iron dome is only for short range rockets, they have other defence systems like the Arrow and Davids Sling for mid and long range missiles, that Hezbollah and Iran etc have, probably more unproven but they still have a system to deal with it.
@Adam, im really not going to waste my time on the same conversation, its pretty clear from your post and others where you are at, from the very start of this we have seen a lot of post dissing Israel and making excuse's for Hamas, and pretty much none dissing Hamas and giving support to Israel, you and others are nothing more than jihadist/terrorist supporter and a total traitor to the West, if it was up to me id send you to Gaza so for a reality check.
Why don’t you go? Your the one advocating for large scale death and destruction from the safety of your home in a conflict free country, being a bit of an expert. Pick up a gun and defend your western values. Offer the IDF some of your expert opinions.
You are so dumb you don’t even realise that the biggest threat to the illusion of western values is the current ruling class of the Western Hemisphere.
But like I said, why not join the IDF and shoot a kid before they join Hamas and become a threat to your family on Phillip Island.Convert to Judaism, become a Zionist and the IDF will help you move into someone else’s house. Get your own bit of dirt close to the action. Settle in the West Bank. Shoot some kids. Blow up some houses. Ruin someone’s crops. Hoo Rah!!western values!
It's insane that you and others are old farts, but think like 16 year old school girls.
If Israel was my country id like to think id fight for it and its people but its not, so the best i can do is support them and not be a low life slimy piece of a absolute traitor trash that sides with the enemy
If i did move to Israel though, im sure id get by in a democracy and a country with values similar to our own, but fuck it would be funny seeing kunts like you move to Gaza, you wouldn't last a month living in a country where all your values are the total opposite
No military experience Andy-mac, just reading nautical history since a child and degree in same field, was good at paintball tho
It's great power competition once more, might is right, and it will come to a head.
Edit: go have a look at Mackinder's great game - seems applicable, it will be the sea powers vs the continental powers.
velocityjohnno wrote:No military experience Andy-mac, just reading nautical history since a child and degree in same field, was good at paintball tho
It's great power competition once more, might is right, and it will come to a head.
Edit: go have a look at Mackinder's great game - seems applicable, it will be the sea powers vs the continental powers.
Cheers, will do.
Australian mujahideen…good to see his mates fire a rocket in his name…. for revenge. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/hezbollah-claims-rocket-attack-r...
“
It's insane that you and others are old farts, but think like 16 year old school girls.
If Israel was my country id like to think id fight for it and its people but its not, so the best i can do is support them and not be a low life slimy piece of a absolute traitor trash that sides with the enemy
If i did move to Israel though, im sure id get by in a democracy and a country with values similar to our own, but fuck it would be funny seeing kunts like you move to Gaza, you wouldn't last a month living in a country where all your values are the total opposite
”
I’m out. No point engaging with you Indo. Your minds made up you’ve picked your side and through countless other threads we know your ability to change your view in the face of new evidence or ideas is pretty much non existent.
Wishing someone into a war zone so they can learn a lesson is crazy. And who’s lesson. Yours?
If you where really worried about Western Democratic Values then there are so many fronts in our own western institutions chipping away at what you wish to protect that the ME is a secondary concern. Do you know what’s happening with campaign funding laws here in Australia, or the concerning developments in US primary’s and ballot applications. No? Yet you think wiping out a civilian population in the ME is protecting Western Values. 3 decades of the war on terror and we’re still finding new “terrorists”. Yet more war is your answer.
Like I said. Waste of time engaging with you. You accuse the likes of myself and others of being slimy traitors.
We accuse you of being a simple minded war pig.
I guess we’re done.
velocityjohnno wrote:andy-mac wrote:As a side question not looking into the morality, ethics or geopolitical situation of this war but pure practicalities for anyone out there with military knowledge.
I watched a couple of videos by Scott Ritter, ex weapons inspector, US marine and by looks of it a bit of a sexual deviant as charged grooming young girls. Source Wiki .. ha
His gist is the the IDF have basically lost this war both on the ground and propaganda wise, and if they open up other front with Hezbollah they could end up losing Israel as a State as it is now. Pretty heavy conclusions and due to new warfare methods, drones etc the USA navy really cannot help out that much, Houthis etc blocking sea lanes. Talks a lot about how Hezbollah have huge stockpile now thanks to Iran of precision missiles that will make iron dome pretty much useless if full scale war eventuates.
Also reckons Hezbollah soldiers out class IDF and have less value on their life etc .
Not my opinion or thoughts, but found his theory which he could seem to back up pretty frightening, especially for Israeli's in the future.The houthi sea lanes bit is interesting as companies can go the long way, but also it seems if a China/Iran ally, your ship won't be targeted; if an Israel ally you will. In that sense it's an extension of Russia in Crimea/Georgia/Ukraine, China SCS pressure, Russia helping African coups - only this time its the other of that triumvirate, Iran, pushing it's geopolitical range. As well as the Israel conflict, make no mistake, the authoritarian powers are on the front foot taking territory in the periphery of the world-continent. How far can they extend the Western militaries? Everyone is re-arming fast, like 1930s fast. Eventual play for all the marbles is coming.
To sort out the houthis and their missiles, would take strikes on the soil of Yemen, and so far the Western powers are unwilling to do this. With a bit of targeting, that could be done. Also to point out that Iran pressure & attacks and political moves are trying to get US bases out of Iraq - part of same plan.
ME, Ukraine, Africa…all the same war: Iran, Russia, China and friends vs the West.
China's exports of transportation equipment to Russia - that's everything from railway cars to autos and trucks as well as aircraft and ships - have risen +800% since Russia invaded Ukraine. There is no bigger supplier to Russia's war economy than China... pic.twitter.com/X2mdwEovSK
— Robin Brooks (@robin_j_brooks) December 29, 2023
Everything is linked and feels like 2024 will see a climax imho .
Again it comes back to the US .
The administration is looking very weak with their military furious they can’t hit Yemen !
The US Secretary of State just visited Mexico to address the Boarder Fiasco .
The Mexican President told him to F off , really Open the borders and be more friendly .
F Me !!!!!
The World has seen that the current US administration is powerless , unwilling , atm , to make a Commitment and make a Stand .
Like Sharks , the world smells the US is ….on hold and waiting for something .
It’s like dripping more blood in the Ocean ,perhaps,
@info talks a big game but the country of ancestors is known for inventing oral sex from licking German boots
The thing that the Israel government/people and the Arab world understands is that if threatened seriously enough Israel will use its nuclear weapons because as my dear old Jewish friend put it there will be no Middle East without Israel. So the current war with its carnage of civilians is precisely calculated to inflict loss of face, life, land without risking the “all in” option. It’s totally fucked and the proper international response ought to be damming condemnation of both sides.
Smiley
My mother is Dutch .
Dad was born here and parents came from England .
In Melbourne, people have ancestors from everywhere .
We don’t lick boots here , wear them yes ,
GuySmiley wrote:@info talks a big game but the country of ancestors is known for inventing oral sex from licking German boots
I thought thats what you guys expected from countries to just bend over and take it no matter what.
Open up the gates, come rape, murder and kidnap us and in return we will provide water and energy and allow 17,000 workers to come earn six times what they can in Gaza.
My Dad is the one who is Dutch he got drafted and went to Vietnam ten years or less after arriving from Holland.
BTW. While Arabs are exempt from needing to serve in the IDF some Arabs even Muslims do volunteer to serve and the number has been increasing in the last ten years from a few hundred a year to about a thousand a year take or give.
Watched this the other day, total respect to this guy a Arab Bedouin whom make up the majority of Arab's that sign up for the IDF
GuySmiley wrote:The thing that the Israel government/people and the Arab world understands is that if threatened seriously enough Israel will use its nuclear weapons because as my dear old Jewish friend put it there will be no Middle East without Israel. So the current war with its carnage of civilians is precisely calculated to inflict loss of face, life, land without risking the “all in” option. It’s totally fucked and the proper international response ought to be damming condemnation of both sides.
If threatened seriously enough Israel will use its nukes. Garbage, they will not use nukes on Gaza. Another cracker of stupidity in a sentence.
@Optimist said
"Simplistic nonsense"
Yeah?
You believe in the Christian God.
So fuck off.
"War has objectives"
You call this a war?
The people of Palestine aren't the fucking Nazis or the Imperial Japanese.
They are being slaughtered and you, a Jesus fanboy that posts on SN about the love of Christ, makes a comment like that.
You are full of shit Optimist.
They are murdering Palestinian Christians too, "finishing the job".
Just fuck right off.
As for @Indo
Just the gutless response I expected from you.
Run from the truth you fucking pussy.
Another nug for you to research gaylord...
What were the IDF called before they became the IDF?
From wiki
"Albert Einstein in a letter to The New York Times in 1948, compared Irgun and its successor Herut party to "Nazi and Fascist parties" and described it as a "terrorist, right wing, chauvinist organization".[ Irgun's tactics appealed to many Jews who believed that any action taken in the cause of the creation of a Jewish state was justified, including terrorism.Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war. "
And
"Haganah was the armed wing of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, which was the operational branch of the World Zionist Organisation founded by Theodor Herzl, the founding father of Zionism, during the First Zionist Congress in 1897 in Switzerland’s Basel.
The Jewish Agency for Palestine, which changed its name to the Jewish Agency for Israel after 1948, aimed to encourage, ensure and implement Jewish migration to Israel from other countries.
Ben Gurion was the president of the Jewish agency from 1935 until the establishment of the Israeli state in 1948, playing a crucial role in Haganah activities. Later, Gurion became Israel’s first prime minister.
Haganah means defence force, which inspired Zionist leaders in naming their armed forces as Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) after the emergence of Israel.
From underground activities of the1940s, “Jewish terrorism changed to military operations, and the TERRORIST ORGANISATION BECAME THE ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCE"
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/a-lookback-at-the-zionist-terrorism-th...
So Indo, you are the one supporting terrorists, not the people here critical of the actions of Israel and the IDF.
Run that one past your Dutch Vet dad and did they ever mention that in all the "military expert" opinion you have "studied".
You aren't ever going "woke", don't worry, nothing could wake the brain dead.
Every person should understand every country will use Nukes where ever they need to , if they have to .
That’s why they have them , as a last resort ,
It is the Ultimate threat , don’t push us too far !
If NATO , achieve their objective of defeating Russia , Russia will split it heaps of different countries , each with nukes .
False incorrect simplistic nonsense….and if you mess with Israel you mess with Gods global plan.
Israel will do anything for anyone who is friendly but if you attack them you will feel the wrath. They were there first so respect their turf and free society.
They refuse to be oppressed by Islam so the jihadis should give it up and learn to get on like the good Arabs have always done.
@ Adam
Ive learnt to try not to waste my time with you, because you are insane and abusive.
But yeah keep convincing yourself Israel are terrorist and Hamas are good guys, its not a conversation any sane person would take seriously.
I guess its a good time to bring this into the conversation for anyone that didn't know this aspect of history.
"The Connection Between Nazism And The Palestinians"
https://www.zenger.news/2023/07/12/the-connection-between-nazism-and-the...
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