Vaccinate or not

That one is always the last card to draw old-dog

shortenism wrote:

Fellas in the interest of an open debate on Vaccine Passports I posted a list of 25 reasons why they are a bad idea and asked for any rebuttal opinions on why they are good.

I’m yet to see one pro view/opinion.

Fellas c’mon let’s hear them..?

People don’t respond because, you can’t argue with stupid.

I'm pro-choice/pro-freedom, I'm not anti-vax although some would happily give me this label. I haven't been vaccinated and at this point am not rushing out to get jabbed. I may one day in the future but have no plans to at this stage.
I'm curious about the pro-vax crew and at what percentage of the population being vaccinated they might be content with (although many humans I know are never content). Would 80%, 90% or 100% be satisfactory?

All this talk of conspiracies and evil intentions by some dark force to control our minds and bodies or worse still, to exterminate us, conjures up an image of Dougie Powers as the person or force responsible for what is supposedly happening, or will happen to the human race, judging by the current social media Covid/Vaccination debate.
How fucking fantastic would it be if all of this was true. What would we call the movie??
History would certainly prove the fruitcakes were correct for the first time (in history)!!

If you look back a while they tried to bring in the Australia Card and it was rejected by both sides of politics. Who remembers that? The centrelink no cash card in remote area..who remembers that having huge backlash? now the new covid ID passes, domestic locators and trackers, international covax passports, with endless boosters lined up for your safety. So are they going to win this time? I hope not.

Israel is a preview of our future if we open right up. It is not that great a story of all is well but this article helps make the surge in cases and role of the vaccination levels make sense. They break the data down to show how vaccine effectiveness levels can get be misunderstood if you just look at the headline numbers.

Quick Example - ultra orthdodox have not vaccinated much and copped Delta big time.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-09-09/covid-19-israel-vaccinatio...

House of Cards (Security Rank) [ID] Theft > Current rapid replacement time
1 day Store Card
4 days Roadside Assist - Insurance Cards
7-10 days Bank Cards
4-6 weeks Medicare / Pension Cards
7 weeks- Drivers Licence ( Biometrix Photo ) Wait for Medicare Card
8 weeks - Australia Card ( Biometrix Photo ) Top Priority #1 Oz Govt Security!
Important! Technically...Feds don't actually cancel their Cards...
Criminals are invited to use / share / sell them as long as they like.

Those charged with a crime against the State or deportation...

Not saying...but if you lose yer [ID] & need to fly out for a Concert or Conference....
eg: Peeing on a Govt Statue or cracking an egg on Scomo's skull can get yer Oz card in 5 minutes

You can take yer own Passport Photo & sue the Govt if they remount it without your permission.
However! New Covid Biometrix Photos rule out DIY passports.
Exactly why they're upgrading with [Covid Pass]
Each person takes their own Biometrix Shot but with Govt (c) Photo Shop.
You are their Slave & Bitch 100%

PS: Nauru is Fully Vaxed + Staff are 100% Biometric +
Oz is relaying the Nauru Airport tarmac + upgrading the Port.
Sure! Just the usual stuff...enjoy yer freedom.

I hope that no matter side of politics you are or covid real or not, vxxd or not, gotta all pull together to stop the digital ID in Aus. Its evil. a two tier society is not a society. It's apartheid.

Abmay wrote:

I'm curious about the pro-vax crew and at what percentage of the population being vaccinated they might be content with (although many humans I know are never content). Would 80%, 90% or 100% be satisfactory?

Id be content with anything above 70% as a nation, anything below would be a bit disappointing.

Anything above 80% as a nation would be awesome but i think unrealistic.

NSW is already at 75%+ for at least the first jab, which i think is pretty impressive, you could assume as a state its realistic that they get above 80%, you would expect Victoria will reach similar figures to NSW and other states will have lower figures maybe even below 70%

If we reach these types of percentages i think its pretty good going especially considering a lot of scare mongering and misinformation.

Vaccine Passports are a problem because,
Is that like you cannot get employed unless you do a medical?
Cannot drive with out a licence?
Worried about data but carry a phone, do tax returns, do social media, get on Swellnet, hold a passport, are employed, require a police clearance, endless etc?

And then there's my favourite terrorist and security laws, basically you are fu(ked long before worrying about vaccine passports.

I understand if you don't want to get vaxed (I don't think that's a good idea) but in the end I suspect we will all get COVID and natural selection (not natural immunity) will decide the out come.

Give it 12 months.

I know a bloke who is an avid anti-vaxxer / freedumb guy. He basically doesn't like being told by govts what he can and can't do, and that determines his position on so many issues.
He's one of those man Karens who can't understand the concept of conflicting rights, and his rights are all he cares about.
A couple of years ago, I was in his car and he wasn't wearing a seatbelt. When I asked him why, he came up with the "Govt can't tell me what to do..." spiel.
If we were in an accident, this bloke would have bounced all around the cabin taking out the other passengers.
This is how anti-vaxxers think. They simply don't give a fuck about, or are too stupid to understand the consequences of their actions on other people.
That's why we need passports. Not to protect anti-vaxxers from themselves, but to protect sensible people from the nutters.

Vic Local - It has already started .

"In but the latest sign that Covid locked-down Australia has abandoned all pretenses of a democratic society and has effectively become a police state, Aussies are now having their booze confiscated in the name of 'health monitoring'.

Apartment blocks subject to lockdown measures in New South Wales, which is home to Sydney and other large population centers, are reportedly being monitored by the government's NSW Health agency. "Residents in apartment blocks locked-down by NSW Health are having their alcohol deliveries policed as part of a policy to limit the number of drinks being consumed each day," according to https://news.com.au."

This was on another site I regularly check . I don't often look at news.com .

Given Gladys and Scumo's recent announcement about the NSW "road to freedom", it's pretty clear two factors are not going to be considered for the mid October kick off.
1. Number of new cases
2. Number of people in hospital / ICU.
This is just fucking incredible.
These two incompetent flogs are putting their political interests ahead of public health.
Scumo will be going to an election in November. He has to time it so people get a little taste of freedom, before case numbers sky-rocket. He also can't wait for summer just incase there's bushfires and everyone works out he's done fuck all to bolster the airborne fire fighting fleet.
God help us if the majority of voters are too stupid to work out this fraud's plan.

Vic Local wrote:

He's one of those man Karens.....

All the talk in this thread is utter rubbish. When are we gunna address the real issues? WTF is a man karen? Ain't it just a Darren? Don't assume my (a)gender!!

drawn into the negative vortex of self righteous stupidity...

again...

against my better judgement...

again...

"Given Gladys and Scumo's recent announcement about the NSW "road to freedom", it's pretty clear two factors are not going to be considered for the mid October kick off.
1. Number of new cases
2. Number of people in hospital / ICU.
This is just fucking incredible.
These two incompetent flogs are putting their political interests ahead of public health.

are they?

the chick representing the doherty institute, and modelling... (that you said you respect...) ...said it really doesn't matter what the case numbers are when you open up, as they are basically going to skyrocket to the thousands anyway... and measures adjust accordingly...

the case numbers will just determine what other health measures we need to put in place ie. masks, micro lockdowns etc... - until we get over our dubious ridiculous obsession with case numbers that is...

(what the hell will man karen be flabberghasted about then?)

- well deaths and icu numbers I guess... because they will determine our 'other health measures' ...so your point 2 typical partisan fear mongering bullshit is totally null and void...

"...Scumo will be going to an election in November. He has to time it so people get a little taste of freedom, before case numbers sky-rocket. He also can't wait for summer just incase there's bushfires and everyone works out he's done fuck all to bolster the airborne fire fighting fleet.
God help us if the majority of voters are too stupid to work out this fraud's plan."

it's actually pretty smart (and dare I say pretty 'scientific') to open before summer, as it lets the new scenarios settle in, when there's less chance of sickness in the community, ...common sense really...

you want to hold out with your lockdown fetish until summer 2022?

...silly question, I know...

'majority' of voters may well be 'stupid'... but not as stupid as your rabid partisan ramblings...

It's also based on vaccination rates if 70%+ people are vaccinated especially the highly vulnerable, people in hospital should be reduced.

At that point opening up might even push a few more people to get vaccinated.

I mean seriously people especially those with business cant keep on living in lockdown forever, if they dont open up when vaccination rates are high, Covid will be the least of the governments worries, it wont just be the anti lockdown nutters on the streets, everyday people will start getting more pro active and pissed off.

It looks like we will need new vaccinations for all the new Covid strains . What percentage do we need on our passports for the new strains to get out of lockdowns ?

Big Pharma says the HIGHER the BETTER .

'Wake Up Sailors, Scurvy Is A Hoax'

"I’m just a lowly seventeenth-century British sailor, not some fancy-pants seventeenth-century British sawbones, but there’s one thing I know for sure: I would rather walk the plank than suck on a single stinking lime."

Wasn't it Cook who helped change the problem of scurvy ?

80% fully vaccinated for me. Those without a covid passport lose the right to attend bars and restaurants, sporting events, shopping centres, travel etc etc. Fuck em..if they can’t do the right thing they lose the right to be a part of society with the rest of us.

Anyone caught with a fake covid passport should be dealt with severly.

Well said Roadkill, And the govt should pull the tax exempt status of all the fundamental religious organisations that ignore distancing laws and push the anti-vax message. These religious leaders are a fucking menace.

80% Roadkill ? For every new strain ? Does that include Flu ? The flu vax rates for over 65 was 74.6% in 2009 ( 2008 was a bad flu year ) . For kids much lower .

Do you want all babies to be 80% as well ? They often travel with their parents and go to the shops as well .

Hutchy 19 wrote:

Wasn't it Cook who helped change the problem of scurvy ?

It's true. For sure he did. Thanks to limes.

You can read his correspondence with West Indian and European lime manufacturers in the British Museum.

They would write to him, or send an envoy, and ask if he'd like to place an order. Cook would write back, or arrange a meeting - immediately - and order crate loads of them. Sometimes send his own men and ships. Protecting his sailors was paramount.

Always good to have a stockpile. Never knew when he might need them. And the growers could always have a bad season. Speculators could move in. Cook knew the value of limes. Australia might never have been colonised were it not for limes.

If Cook didn't believe in limes we might all be speaking Frog.

Those Frenchies were vehement anti-limers. Can't help but think that if Lapérouse were a limer he would have got the jump on Phillip.

Proud to be a Limey.

Qu'ils mangent des citrons verts!

https://theconversation.com/how-the-british-defeated-napoleon-with-citru...

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/qantas-confi...
I would expect all those that say it is their right NOT to vaccinate…will also 100% support Qantas managements right to bring this in to offer safety and security to passengers and their aircrew.

Thanks for sharing that, Constance; that was the best piece I’ve read all day. Betoota nails it again.

"and I swear to you that the juice of a lime will never pass my lips—at least until the internal bleeding starts, and then I’m sure I will go along with whatever old sawbones says. And I definitely want access to that new experimental leech treatment."

Tout ce dont nous avons besoin, c'est d'une mer de vitamines!

World No Vax = 221,788 cases/day + 5,273 deaths/day
World Vax Rollout = 563,832 cases/day + 10,841 deaths/day
Vax Rollout has spread twice the speed & amount of Covid cases & doubled the Covid death toll.
Each wealthy country Vax Spike spews fountains of Covid over our once free Blue Planet.

NSW Vax Spike is now shooting a VIP Covid Fountain to the stars.

NSW No Vax = 12.8 cases/day + 1 death/week
NSW Vax Rollout = 170 cases/day + 9.1 deaths/week
NSW Vax Rollout = 13 x more Covid cases per/week + 9x more death/week

NSW Premier... "When we hit 70?/80?/70% Vax we'll have twice more covid again...it will be Magical!"
Magical : ( 2021 NSW Definition ) = 25x more Covid + 20x more death...All Hail the Vax!

Gladys: "It's Ok coz Freedom Day will still fall on Magical Monday after that Mass Vax slaughter thingy!"

That sounds like a dodgy cheap tart deal from behind the Port-a-loo with the CFMEU ... (Just Joking!)

Monday 18th Oct is the next flexible RDO day...can we lock that in for Freedom Day !
https://nsw.cfmeu.org/calendar-created/month/2021-10

Qld / Vic Rollouts will currently need to race 13x faster than start of Oz Rollout!
Get well soon neighbours...Qldurr tbb is still happy to donate Vax to NSW Emergency Appeal.
That is a dead set offer...happy to help!

No way will we be able to, or should we want to lock out anti vaxxers from our society and its freedoms for any length of time

Hang on shoredump.
Anti vaxxers are more likely to get covid, spread covid, and require expensive hospital treatment paid for by the taxpayers. They are also more likely to put the health system under enormous strain compromising the treatment of other patients.
So tell me again why these idiots should enjoy society's freedoms at no cost to themselves, but at great expense to people sensible enough to get the jab?
I'm genuinely interested why people think sensible citizens should subsidise the anti-vaxxers' idiotic lifestyle choices.

Vic Local as Roadkill hasn't answered my question can you ? Will babies also be required have Vax rates of 80% . If not why not .

Because it’s illegal

Because after a short period of time
Covid will have gone through just about everyone and the reasons for locking them away become redundant

So you’d seriously want Shorty and Blowin locked out of restaurants and overseas travel forever?

Should we keep them off our beaches too?

shoredump wrote:

No way will we be able to, or should we want to lock out anti vaxxers from our society and its freedoms for any length of time

I’m happy to..and I want to lock them out. If anyone doesn’t want to do the right thing for the greater good of society, they don’t deserve to be out being a part of society.

shoredump wrote:

Because it’s illegal

Because after a short period of time
Covid will have gone through just about everyone and the reasons for locking them away become redundant

So you’d seriously want Shorty and Blowin locked out of restaurants and overseas travel forever?

I would love Shorty and Blowin to be able to travel and go to restaurants..however their rights to do that should not come at the expense of others who have done the right thing and had the vaccine to protect themselves and protect others.
And if shorty and blowin decide to never get vaccinated..then yes,I want them locked out forever.

"Because it’s illegal"
Wow. Under what law is denying an unvaccinated person the freedom to use various services or enter various venues "illegal"?
In fact, I'd say the complete opposite is true.
Businesses and organisations have a duty of care to protect their staff and patrons. It's why you can't get into nightclubs when absolutely shit-faced. It's why there's no fly lists. It's why you can't smoke inside. It's why convicted pedos can't teach children.
I put it to you shoredump, that you just flat out made up the claim that it's "illegal" to deny non-vaccinated people services.

Roadkill - please answer my question . Let us know what you think .

"I would expect all those that say it is their right NOT to vaccinate…will also 100% support Qantas managements right to bring this in to offer safety and security to passengers and their aircrew."

I wonder what you and Vic Local thought when , to save their business and employees jobs from competition , Qantas moved most of their maintenance off shore ?

100% support ?

Vic Local wrote:

Hang on shoredump.
Anti vaxxers are more likely to get covid, spread covid, and require expensive hospital treatment paid for by the taxpayers. They are also more likely to put the health system under enormous strain compromising the treatment of other patients.
So tell me again why these idiots should enjoy society's freedoms at no cost to themselves, but at great expense to people sensible enough to get the jab?
I'm genuinely interested why people think sensible citizens should subsidise the anti-vaxxers' idiotic lifestyle choices.

This doesn't happen much but i tend to agree with VL on this one.

Or if they are unvaccinated and get sick and go into hospital then maybe they should have to cover the hospital cost.

Also all international arrivals should be double vaccinated, as imagine if they weren't and got sick and took up a spot in our hospitals.

Hutchy 19 wrote:

Roadkill - please answer my question . Let us know what you think .

The sealion roars tonight.

stunet wrote:

Hutchy 19 wrote:

Roadkill - please answer my question . Let us know what you think .

The sealion roars tonight.

Hutchy 19 wants to know our opinions about the offshoring of QANTAS manufacturing in relation to that company's vaccine policies.
Hey Hutchy, do you ever wonder why nobody wants to jump down your rabbit holes? If you want answers, stop asking ridiculous questions.

Vic Local .

" bring this in to offer safety and security to passengers and their aircrew."

If you drop the word passengers it is the same . Qantas made the decision to move to off shore maintenance to offer safety and security to their business and employees .

Were you 100% supportive ?

How about vaxing 80% of the small pumpkins ? Or is that a rabbit hole as well ?

Vic Local wrote:

"Because it’s illegal"
Wow. Under what law is denying an unvaccinated person the freedom to use various services or enter various venues "illegal"?
In fact, I'd say the complete opposite is true.
Businesses and organisations have a duty of care to protect their staff and patrons. It's why you can't get into nightclubs when absolutely shit-faced. It's why there's no fly lists. It's why you can't smoke inside. It's why convicted pedos can't teach children.
I put it to you shoredump, that you just flat out made up the claim that it's "illegal" to deny non-vaccinated people services.

yes it’s illegal to stop your citizens from leaving the country

I’m picking up a South African accent in you VL

Unvaccinated people don’t have covid, and vaccinated people are protected from covid. Your desire to divide our country in two is a bit sick

Anyway, it won’t work and I suspect it’s all just a play at getting the last lot to vaccinate, then it will all be removed

How do you know unvaccinated people don't have covid shoredump? Doesn't really seem right to me...

How do you know unvaccinated people do have covid JQ?
You’re the one that wants to impose soul crushing apartheid like laws upon them based on your surety

Should we also lock out Victorian Sudanese considering they are statistically more likely to commit a crime against a business?

shoredump wrote:

How do you know unvaccinated people do have covid JQ?
You’re the one that wants to impose soul crushing apartheid like laws upon them based on your surety

Not what I said shoredump, have another go bud.

I’m not the one that wants to discriminate, so I’ve got nothing to justify.
It’s up to you to justify your discrimination.
Remember, 99% of un vaxxed at any given time won’t have covid

Serious question.
Where the fuck did this "apartheid" line come from? I've even seen some RWF candidate calling vaccine passports Jim Crow laws.
Is it the usual nutters on Sky News After Dark pushing this stuff? Alan Jones?
It's genuinely fucking offensive to people who actually suffered due to apartheid.

shoredump wrote:

I’m not the one that wants to discriminate, so I’ve got nothing to justify.
It’s up to you to justify your discrimination.
Remember, 99% of un vaxxed at any given time won’t have covid

Got a citation for that one shoredump? I think you are essentially making that up; as a modicum of thought would reveal that it's not really a statement you can make with any certainty. Case loads are going to go up and down as the virus spreads amongst the community, there could well be times when much more of the community has it than that.

So where do you draw the line viclocal?
Ciggie smokers have access to expensive health care payed for by tax payers. Obese fat fuckers have access to tax funded health care and you've got the gall to single out people on vac status, your righteous prick and a half ay.

That's not 100% correct though is it inzider. Smokers aren't going to be afforded a lung transplant if they won't stop smoking, alcoholics won't get a replacement liver unless they stop drinking - both of those two groups will be at the bottom of a list for a replacement organ too. Obese people generally aren't offered bariatric surgery procedures unless they can show some progress towards losing weight.

Bit more complex than you're making out.

Based off UK & USAs case numbers against their populations during various waves

Anyway, I’ll leave you to it.
I just wanted to point out the discrimination. Not for me but it works for some. I’d prefer to lock covid positive people out, vaxxed or un vaxxed, because they’re the ones spreading covid. Rapid testing.