Vaccinate or not
Roadkill - I must have been the only one you read . The word Trump was written a bit . Is that your search criteria ?
Roker - You forgot to mention one of Trumps other stupid ideas . Appointing Fauci .
Stu, I get that the force being applied to be vaccinated is from government/the state/the man but I don't feel that getting vaccinated binds me to or brings me closer to being under the authority of the state.
Vax passports will certainly be administered by govt but again I don't think when they are established I will feel I have given away a notable part of my free self to a authoritarian institution.
I get the weariness to simply comply and any real erosion of individuals rights by the state is truly dangerous
But I look at it more as a commitment to the community/city/country that provides an income for me and my family, support, a decent plumber etc etc. That community is who I feel more bound to.
This is the biggest and most far reaching event in my life so far and those of you in NSW, VIC and QLD must look at the now you are living in and recognise its a bit shit.
If I have to give away a bit to ensure we all have a life that is a fair bit like life before Covid but, with this experience, kinda different then so be it.
I think one of the biggest concerns about vaccine passports, especially digital ones, is the door it opens...
remember all the resistance to myhealth a year or two ago?
resistance and suspiscion from legit. doctirs I might add... (who would get written off as crackpots in todays climate....)
say we need 'vaccine passports' for 3 o r 4 years... how long is it before we 'need' to include more new health information on our digital record?
the next disease that needs medicating gets included...
how long before 'convenience' shoehorns our whole medical record on there?
passports hacked...
data sharing... (big tech big pharma seem pretty cosy these days)
how long before you must show health insurance your digital health record?
...health insurance buying 'big data' and screening who to insure and who not?
privacy and movement tracking is the least of my concerns...
You can of course get a paper copy of your vaccine certificate - which is what I'll be doing. The less of my personal information on an easily lost and poorly secured mobile device the better,
https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/subjects/getting-help-d...
Hutchy 19 wrote:Roadkill - I must have been the only one you read . The word Trump was written a bit . Is that your search criteria ?
Nope…I just ignore what ever you write.
"You can of course get a paper copy of your vaccine certificate - which is what I'll be doing. The less of my personal information on an easily lost and poorly secured mobile device the better,
https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/subjects/getting-help-d..."
I thought they would have to do this... despite all the talk...
forcing people into the online abyss is just not cool, especially for the oldies...
different game some places though...
Here’s 25 reasons why Vaccine passport (VP) programs are dangerous. Dedicated to Cocojangles.
If anyone gets past 5 and still thinks they are good, then I can’t help.
However in the interest of good debate if someone wants to put up 25 reasons why they are good then please do.
Why VPs are a terrible idea:
1. The government takes on the role of physician: Mandatory VPs deny family doctors the ability to individually assess patient health and offer medical recommendations unique to each patient. Why should the government have greater say over personal health than our own physicians? As with viruses, vaccines impact each person’s biology and body type differently, and pose unique risks.
2. Medicine is blended with politics: VPs grant control over our health to medically untrained elected officials and government-employed physicians, none of whom are immune to political pressure. Unlike dictatorial governments, no Western national government has ever resorted to such invasive totalitarian controls, and this should concern us. Do we really want to wed medical procedures to re-election campaigns and party politics?
3. Manufacturer liability is dismissed: Once mandated, citizens will have no legal recourse to hold governments or vaccine producers accountable for potential side effects. And, how can the consumer trust the quality of future products or know that adequate testing has been performed when the government has already guaranteed manufacturers the sale of their vaccines?
4. Manufacturers have access to limitless profits: VPs will grant vaccine producers exclusive access to limitless financial profits. They deny both a fair market share to producers of alternative treatments and disincentive research into future medical treatments for COVID-19.
5. Natural immunity becomes irrelevant: Millions of people have recovered from COVID-19 and possess natural immunity. VPs fail to acknowledge that. Why require everyone with COVID-19 antibodies to receive a synthetic vaccine? Humans have relied on natural immunity for thousands of years to combat illnesses, and while many vaccines have proven effective, why treat the body’s natural disease-fighting system dismissively?
6. Bodily autonomy is denied: VPs fail to honour bodily autonomy as an unalienable, human right. Even the Supreme Court of Canada, ruling on HIV-positive persons-has determined that the hypothetical risk of HIV disease transmission is an insufficient reason to divulge one’s health status. For example, people with HIV are not even requiredto disclose their infection to a sexual partner unless there is a realistic possibility of transmission (i.e. high viral load, or failure to use a condom). And yet, vaccine passports would require a person with no COVID-19 viral load, and who is not unnecessary exposing others to the risk of transmission, to prove they are immunized.
7. They are costly to taxpayers: They will unnecessarily cost taxpayers money to produce, administer and enforce.
8. Underground economies will emerge: They will create underground economies as people who refuse mRNA vaccines find other ways to access goods, services and entertainment.
9. They set a dangerous precedent: VPs set a dangerous precedent by effectively forcing vaccines on entire populations, even though the vaccines have not been subjected to long-term analysis. What guarantees do we have that annual vaccinations or other invasive medical treatments will not be enforced by future governments (as determined exclusively by an elite group of politicians and experts)?
10. They encourage scientific censorship: Mass vaccinations are a significant ingredient in the response most governments have to COVID-19. As witnessed multiple times over the past year, physicians and scientists who express dissenting opinions are threatened with the loss of their licences or censored. The introduction of VPs into law will serve to further censor and silence dissenting scientific voices who may have valid objections we need to consider.
11. They invalidate personal responsibility: Even if mRNA vaccines prove highly effective with minimal side effects, VPs fail to acknowledge that unvaccinated people have the right to be wrong about the medical treatments they choose for their own bodies. And, if vaccines are effective, then vaccinated persons need not worry about controlling the choices of the unvaccinated population. Each person must take personal responsibility for their own choices, and the notion that the unvaccinated are a threat to the vaccinated is unproven.
12. They are not required to save ICUs: If vaccines prove efficacious on the 70%+ who have already been vaccinated, then only 30% or less of the population remains at risk. In light of the high survival rates for COVID-19 even priorto the vaccine rollout, it appears unlikely for ICUs to be overwhelmed during future viral waves as only a small fraction of the remaining unvaccinated would be at risk of hospitalization. The only way for ICUs to reach capacities is for significant numbers of vaccinated people to become infected, thereby proving the failure of vaccination programs.
13. They are not scientific: While mRNA vaccines represent one potentially valid scientific response to disease, vaccine passports are political in nature, because they exist to coerce and control the behaviour of populations, rather than treat illness. Politicians all know this, and so while elected officials all have access to the same medical data, we are witnessing a variety of political responses, including the utilization of polls to measure public opinion. This is an important consideration because citizens who would otherwise grimace at the idea of vaccine passports may feel pressured to accept them under the false premise that they are scientifically necessary. In actual fact they represent bad political policy, and should be amply debated and criticized as such.
14. They legalize discrimination: In a country with a long track record of seeking to stamp out inequality and discrimination, treating vaccinated and unvaccinated people differently is discriminatory. Since when is a vaccine required to access a theatre, church service, attend a ball game, or find employment?
15. They create the potential for civil unrest: VPs could result in violent uprisings. While no one wants to witness civil unrest, history has shown that populations of people who are subjected to excessive state control, lack of access to gainful employment, forced medical treatments, denial of liberty, denial of the right to move or travel, and exposed to social isolation sometimes resort to violence. Finding solutions that permit peaceful coexistence is the preferred way forward, and reduces the risk of civil unrest.
16. Coercive medicine is banned: Medical coercion is illegal, period. Modern medical treatments require informed and voluntary consent free from manipulation. Vaccine passports fail that test miserably.
17. Charter freedoms cannot be permanently denied: They would effectively serve to permanently limit Charter freedoms, including freedom of conscience. Provincial restrictions limiting inter-provincial travel already temporarily violate the aforementioned Charter mobility rights, and vaccine passports would potentially do so permanently.
18. Religious freedoms would be violated: They fail to protect religious groups whose beliefs forbid them from seeking medical treatment from the government.
19. They stigmatize and target people: They unfairly target unvaccinated people as a risk to public health, while permitting people with other communicable diseases or histories of criminal behaviour to freely interact in public with anonymity. Why do we not have vaccine passports for all other diseases, or crime passports outlining past criminal convictions? Because we understand the dangers of creating different classes of people in a free and open society.
20. They reflect the behaviour of despots: VPs reflect the behaviour of despotic tyrants. Requiring vaccine passports to fully access the economy, employment and worship venues sounds eerily similar to the dehumanizing controls of communist China or the biblical descriptions of a despotic ruler forcing people to receive a mark in order to buy and sell. Vaccination programs that penalize the non-compliant with economic and social limitations are innately tyrannical.
21. They deny parental authority: They violate parental authority, as government agencies are permitted to manipulate children into receiving vaccines without parental authority or access to a child’s medical history. Will we permit government officials to usurp parental authority and act as father and mother to our children?
22. There are potential and known risks: Passports seek to address potential risks but create potential risks in otherwise healthy people. Risks include side effects like myocarditis, strokes, blood clots, and possible fertility issues in women. While most medical treatments have risks attached, why coerce healthy people, at very low risk of dying from COVID-19, to take a vaccine they do not require?
23. There is insufficient study and consultation: VP programs have not been debated openly in houses of government or subjected to systematic studies by third parties free from political liability. Instead they have been rapidly adopted in Western democracies based on political expediency and narrow-minded thinking. Rushed policy of this magnitude is foolhardy and irresponsible.
24. The government shows little interest in actual health: Since governments show little interest in banning other known activities that spread disease and burden the healthcare system including smoking, alcoholism, overeating, or sexual promiscuity, how can we trust that vaccine passport programs are administered out of love for neighbour? Could it be that fear, the need for control, idolization of medicine, and party politics are among the actual motives behind VPs? Most assuredly they are, and principled people must not participate in the erasure of personal liberties for these reasons.
25. They could be permanent: If history has shown us anything, it is that government controls are long-lasting. VPs could become permanent, and probably will, unless citizens resist. With no expiry dates on vaccine passport programs, who would relish the idea of producing medical documents for travel and shopping, potentially for years to come?
Just on Point 5 Shorto.
France has a Vaccine Passport (Pass Sanitaire).
You do not need to be vaccinated to have a Pass Sanitaire, but if you are not, it must be because you have recently tested negative for Covid-19 or are recovering from Covid-19.
So it does recognise natural immunity.
edit: I'm personally not in favour of vaccine passports
On my first trip to Indo, you needed a vaccine passport to get into that country.
Nobody died from the passport, and they didn't result in an authoritarian dystopia.
shortenism, nobody is pinning you down and injecting you with a vaccine, but there must be consequences if you choose not to get the jab. Why the fuck should some utter fucking moron who doesn't want a vaccine pay the same medical insurance premium as a fully vaccinated person?
Covid will eventually become the disease of the idiots in Australia. It's just a shame the anti vax morons will be clogging up hospitals and demanding free medical treatment.
If I had my way, I'd be billing these dopey fuckers for their hospital treatment if they get covid. Why should taxpayers subsidise stupidity?
I don't normally like things like the vaccine passport, but in this case there really must be a price put on stupidity. What a nonsense list from a bunch of religious nut jobs who have no business commenting on public health policy.
I'm pro vaccine but anti passport anti forced vaccine. Big brother. These clowns using the virus to create a 2 tier society and strip more freedom.. Once you make it compulsory, once you give any government the power to MAKE you take a needle, its gone too far. Frightening times.
Incentives and education will always trump the big stick aproach. No one made slip slop slap mandatory, or condoms mandatory during the aids epidemic.
Vaccinate yourself if thats your thing. I have had one jab. Due for my second soon. But don't force anyone to have something they dont want. If you are vaccinated, you will still catch and pass on the virus. U are only 30% safer to society than an unvaccinated person. You wont die though. You will take the virus to far away lands with your vaccine passport. Yet you will smugly look down at those not vaccinated. Yeah naaaah..... Fuck outa here.
I agree with all you said Sheepy
It makes sense for yellow fever to stop it coming in, but covid is already everywhere
Surely this is a short term strategy just to flatten the curve??
Sheepdog. Nobody is forcing anyone to get vaccinated. The passport just ensures there are consequences for people who don't get it and there's protection for businesses and vaccinated individuals.
It's exactly the same argument as smoking. Nobody is forcing anyone to quit, but if you do smoke, you're not allowed to do it indoors impacting others in the room / plane / train etc. If you choose to smoke, you pay a higher insurance premium. If you choose to smoke, you don't get priority for a lung transplant.
I'm so over Karens complaining about a vaccine passport. People need to own their lifestyle choices.
Yep agree Vic, make those of us who don't want the COVID jab pay if we get sick from COVID. Where do I sign?
Now what about if you get health complications from the COVID jab? You have made the decision to have it, should you be outed from the health system for any complication born from it now or into the future? There's hundreds of published side effects, have you checked with your health insurer whether now if any of those occur to you at any point in the future it will be voided.. After all you made a voluntary decision to participate?
Ya see this is the issue as is evident all throughout this thread. You think on the one hand its voluntary but on the other hand you feel its a requirement to win back your freedoms. So which is it?
Which ever way you look at it, this whole thing has warts all over it and probably time we started thinking about how we're going to flatten the curve for the legal system.
Do ya really think it's wise for you to comment on the legal system shorto? Not that I agree with Vic's concept of making people pay for healthcare like that, but the difference is that he's suggesting following the best expert advice available right now, you are suggesting the opposite.
Salute shortenism....tbb will mix'n'match a blooper reel tribute.
Note Lib NSW 25th March / Feds 17th Dec > have longest Health Emergency Closed Sea borders.
2.5million Slaves / Students need NO Covid Vax for arrival or crossing borders now & no talk of it.
Pass has nothing to do with stopping Covid...a child can see that!
All recall having to Huddle together for Scomo's Herd App to work! Doh!
Gold Pass VIP's are soon free to (Legally) sneeze over sitting Duck Hesitants = Herd Vax.
Note Israel / UK vaxerz are most infected & currently spreading most covid faster than Delta R0.
Ramp enough Rollout vaxerz & control yer very own R0 swing seat..."Who do we scare next Boss!"
Australia Health / Pass refuses to approve our only Oz made double Vaxerz - V 451 + Vaxine.
Also refuses to accept / employ Vax damaged Aussie employees ordered to 2nd dose with alt vax.
These Vaxerz did their best & stood up as Guinea Pigs & Govt treats them as illegal aliens...
Just saying...there's yer dose of reality!
How can we not approve out own Vax...goes to show our Govt are shit kickerz for o/s bullies.
Govt has no right to deny First Nation going walkabout for Bush Tucker.
ACA wanna billboard Mexicans digging tunnels for weeks under electrified Rabbit Proof Fences.
Nah! These are more soul destroying life ending Gold Passes.
The Vax Pass is legal Tender for Lawyers > Colleges > Divorce > Wills > Licences > Visitation Rights.
That's where this kicks in...never about filling in Border Wall tunnels with trap door spiders!
Wanna see a few examples...already happening...
Judge Q: 1 { RUVAX'D } Well you are Fucked Punk!
Judge banned Mum from her Child...(She has a Sick Note!)
Another Bloke same Judge : {RUVAX'D} Bloke says he discussed Vax with GP/ Nurses!
'Fucking Bullshit' > Judge called him a liar & trashed the Nurses as Worthless....
(This is 2021 style Hang'em High Vaccine Law > Whatever other Laws don't mount to a hill of beans.)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/covid-vaccine-rebecca-...
Canada
Medical Clinic Sign > { FULL VAX ONLY }
Unmasked (Sick Note) Mum is told to get out > Her sick Child was denied Treatment.
Same Clinic > Tradie burns his eye > Phones Clinic { RUVAX'D } Sorry! Go hang out at Emergency!
State Health Boss...Yeah! No! But...better off for hesitants to not hassle nice people & cool off in Emergency!
https://globalnews.ca/news/8144159/unvaccinated-b-c-man-walk-in-clinic/
15th Sept ...Hot Doc Linda refuses to even look at a Hesitant > [ TELEHEALTH ]
https://news.yahoo.com/florida-doctor-said-shes-refusing-140140760.html
1st Oct ...Dr Jason is refusing to allow Hesitants in his Clinic.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-doctor-pledges-stop-treatin...
Covid Outpatient Hospital Care has dropped from 4x vists > 2x visits > (Rollout) > 2x call > 1 call.
Hospital Treatment / Fed GP clinics are one step away from Vaxed VIP Patients only.
Aussie unvaxed choose [ ROBO HEALTH ] or Wave down Emergency Crew on a Covid Vessel.
Current US Hospitals claim Vaxed Staff has 75% [+] breakthrus (2 Hospitals had 200 Vaxed [+] Staff.)
Current NSW Vaxed Hospital Staff 100% [+] cases + Vaxed Carers 100% [+] cases
Never ever once was concern of numbers of patient infection...never once! You cannot read about it!
No blame on staff...this is about dangerous irresponsible Hospital Management
Not here or abroad have Unvaxed Patients or Staff ever spread 100% cases in any Hospital environment!
Wives are Divorcing Husbands for not Vaxing ( Despite recovering from Covid )
Twins caught Covid Together but Big Pharma forever test Vax on Twins apart.
Guess What! Twins are medically trained to Vax opposite...
Unvaxed twins lie dead at the feet of Vaxed twin...No longer die as one...(Morbid!)
Just saying...that Twins & offspring are dying off as fastest demographic during Rollout.
tbb is a non identical twin so sides more with twin's Vax decision. (Won't make sense to others)
twins can't help but think of others & put them first...we cannot live in an ID Reward Points World!
Big Pharma { Power to the Wealthy individual } { Gold Pass } will further obliterate Twin set Unity.
Yes! tbb & sister & other twin-etc siblings actually feel this division tear us apart... now- Vax ID cards.
A twin needs to present a case to other twin for Vax in advance of Doctor or Govt assist...
Yes! tbb has discussed it often...certainly not hesitant but feels closely aligned to twin sister.
All crew hear...it's just a Vax...Then why did it spit Twins apart & why are so many left devastated.
Big Pharma wants to do a Twin Study...then do one on the Rollout Vax you fuckers!
Asymptomatic Vaxed twin has no way of telling if/when they're infecting unvaxed Twin..(Oopsie! Did I do that?)
Who's gonna mop up, if they trace infection back to Vaxed Twin! (Did I just breach 1.5m to kill my better half?)
Please share! What did you learn about Twins & Vax! These are yer pissweak uncaring brain dead experts, people...
Twins in Test Tubes & Petri dishes save the World...but when Vax experiment is killing off Twins? Nah!
Identical Twin A has ADHD but is Supa laid back + loves home study doesn't get out or care about Vax.
Twin B is highly strung, has a nervous breakdown with each "Covid"cough & won't shut up about Vax.
Legal separation: Twin A must Vax NOW > Twin B will go even more mental...What to do?
Twin A sets up (Freaky Friday Vax Switcheroo) Mum doesn't hate the idea & asks the crew!
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/04/twin-vaccine-switch-care-and-fe...
Money side is where Gold Card comes in... Legal Grounds >
Is a divorced unvaxed client too careless to Own half the Wife's Sports Car?
Govts will suck up "Non Vaxed" Estates...unless the corpse's Police State Biometrix ID Beeps twice!
Just so happens all Tiny Pacific Islands & Oz are getting Biometrix Civic ID entry...Smile for yer **Starshots*
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-australias-home-qu...
With international travel opening up at 80% vaccinated in November, the big question is how long will the vaccine passport stay in place. I’m thinking a while, a year plus
Shortenism’s arguments are becoming weaker and more tenuous by the day. Still clinging to that conspiracy govt control theory is hilarious.
TBB, no-one ever calls out your posts because without a translator they are mostly unreadable.
Here goes;
2.5m slaves/students need no Covid vax for arrival/ border crossing.
Absolute bullshirt, yes shirt > blot blog.....< waffle. (trying your language) Fail!
RUVAX'D waffle. Us court system, 1 judge and a link to an Independent UK article. Relevance TBB?? come on.
Canadian clinic refusing treatment to unvaxed. As a business they have a right to choose. Free choice is your whole point right? Or only when it suits?
"Hot Doc" in Florida. Still seeing All patients just via zoom for unvaxed. AGAIN a choice.
"Dr Jason is refusing to allow hesitant's at his clinic" Again, bullshirt. Individual Doc at large clinic and NBC was unable to verify authentication of anything.
And the rest, well I am going to choose to spend the time I would have spent addressing that on something actually worthwhile.
TBB I do sometimes enjoy the challenge of dissecting your posts on many issues, you are very clever. But if they were just a tad more readable and less full of bullshirt you may actually reach more people.
Cacadajy wrote:TBB, no-one ever calls out your posts because without a translator they are mostly unreadable.
Here goes;
2.5m slaves/students need no Covid vax for arrival/ border crossing.
Absolute bullshirt, yes shirt > blot blog.....< waffle. (trying your language) Fail!
RUVAX'D waffle. Us court system, 1 judge and a link to an Independent UK article. Relevance TBB?? come on.
Canadian clinic refusing treatment to unvaxed. As a business they have a right to choose. Free choice is your whole point right? Or only when it suits?
"Hot Doc" in Florida. Still seeing All patients just via zoom for unvaxed. AGAIN a choice.
"Dr Jason is refusing to allow hesitant's at his clinic" Again, bullshirt. Individual Doc at large clinic and NBC was unable to verify authentication of anything.
And the rest, well I am going to choose to spend the time I would have spent addressing that on something actually worthwhile.
TBB I do sometimes enjoy the challenge of dissecting your posts on many issues, you are very clever. But if they were just a tad more readable and less full of bullshirt you may actually reach more people.
Obfuscation ain’t clever.
Enter Dr. Fauci
If EcoHealth Alliance sounds familiar, it is because its president, Peter Daszak, led the effort to mislead the public about the origins of COVID-19 and the likelihood it leaked from the lab. It was Daszak who organized and signed an influential “scientific” statement in The Lancet disregarding the lab leak theory – while concealing his role in the research “and creating the impression of scientific unanimity.”
It was also Daszak who worked in conjunction with the US Government – in particular, Dr. Fauci – to push the false narrative that COVID couldn’t have been leaked from a lab. In April 2020, Dr. Fauci was congratulated by Daszak for helping “dispel the myths being spun around the virus’ origins.”
"Of course, Dr. Fauci wasn’t the only public official lying to the public. Dr. Francis Collins, the director of the NIH, was asked point-blank by radio host Hugh Hewitt about this funding. Here is what Dr. Collins said:
Hugh Hewitt: But can you rule out, Dr. Collins, the United States having funded any sort of gain of function research in Wuhan?
Dr. Francis Collins: We absolutely did not fund gain of function research in Wuhan."
Until I started reading this thread I was under the illusion that people are rational thinking intelligent educated beings who understand the value of expertise in chosen fields. I still like to think that the few conspiracy nutjobs on this site whose brains have been rewired by too much social media are only a tiny but very vocal minority. If what they believe was true then every doctor, nurse, medical expert, scientist, politician etc. etc. in the world must be in on the biggest conspiracy cover up in history. Like most of the silent majority I have my digital green tick on my phone ready to go, bring it on I say, I have nothing to hide. Cheers.
Fellas in the interest of an open debate on Vaccine Passports I posted a list of 25 reasons why they are a bad idea and asked for any rebuttal opinions on why they are good.
I’m yet to see one pro view/opinion.
Fellas c’mon let’s hear them..?
But why the green tick Old-dog? C’mon really sell it to me.. I’ll be waiting.
JQ stick ya legal comment. You and I aren’t in any form of contract the only contract you have with SN is for surf reports not health services. If you are feeling uncomfortable or confused about the content you are reading you have choices. You can a) stop reading this thread b) stop reading this thread c) stop reading this thread. If you think trying to muzzle shortenism by some legal threat is a way forward to stop exposing yourself to a scary alternative opinion then you know I have psychological issues it’s been pointed out on here dozens of times.. I mean that mentally compromised position seems to work for murderers, rapists, pedos etc so should def work as a defence on an anonymous forum on a surf forecasting website. FFS. Also, your comment about Vic presenting the common view.. You sure about that?
1. Public health.
2. Employers owe a duty of care to their employees
3. Businesses owe a duty of care to their customers
4. International travel. Good luck getting into other countries with a VP.
5. Economic benefits of getting the economy open earlier.
and 6. VPs are a great way to identify complete fucking morons.
These are real benefits of VPs, not made up problems in your 25 reasons.
Here's your problem shortenism. You're an idiot and there's very little prospect that is going to change any time soon.
Being anti-vaccine passport means you are perfectly happy with a situation where custom officials have to let unvaccinated Australians, international students, and international travellers into the country if they have a valid visa. It's like you want to spread covid.
Not even that village idiot blowin would be happy with that situation.
4. International travel. Good luck getting into other countries with a VP.
Should be without.
Vic's 'Real Reasons' hahaha. Can you elaborate on all these? For example, where's the evidence that it supports public health? Where's the evidence that a Duty of Care includes requiring staff and customers to take a trial medicine? Where's the economic benefits of locking into long term supply contracts with monopolised pharma? You're deluded by the governments big 4 PR media firms. Even though your not the brightest biccy in the tin, they are very clever you have to give them that. Keep going..
Shortenism, You are that stupid, and that much of a tin foil hat wearing nutter, debating you is pretty much pointless.
I could point to rock solid evidence that vaccines help reduce the spread and impact of covid, and it wouldn't change your mind. I could point to legislation showing that employers owe their staff a duty of care, but it wouldn't change your mind.
I'm just happy to point out that you are completely full of shit and mock your opinions. Anyone can look at the Southern states of the USA, (where you bat shit crazy ideas are commonplace) and see what a gigantic mess Australia would be if your tin foil hat wearing lunacy was believed.
shortenism, sell it to you? As the messiah once said " I couldn't give a rats tossbag." Your choice your loss. What I don't get is why people of your ilk are so desperate to preach and spread your delusional misinformation, it really is like a religious cult, although at least you aren't rude and aggressive. Cheers.
COVID
COrona VIrus Disease
or
Certificate Of Vaccination ID
You really can't argue against either can you...
Sorry Shortenism - I am going to give your view a lot of damage by TOTALLY agreeing with you .
I am happy with my existing passport which is stamped that I have had the appropriate vaccinations to enter a specific country .
This new passport will be or become digital ( everything including money will as well ). You will need it to go to work , a restaurant , the movies , the football and to go surfing .
Some power will decided what you have to have on it to do what you want .
What other private information will they put on it in the future ? Religion , sex preferences , drinking and drug use etc etc .
They use the initial need to justify the passport with an idea that sounds sensible to most . Unfortunately these people don't realise that the passport will NEVER stop growing with information that some bureaucrat think is necessary to control the masses .
History has proved this time and time again !
One very important point that everyone seems to be missing. What about the people who have tried to get the vaccine but cant because there isn't enough for everyone. Where I live there is a shortage, the wait time is over 2 months to get the first shot. This is in the far north of NSW. No cases for hundreds of km, none anywhere near here since last year? There's going to be trouble if they try to only give freedom to the vaccinated.
If you don't trust the media or the government, then I would suggest talking to a medical professional to get a more objective perspective of COVID-19. I just checked with my brother-in-law who is a doctor working in ICU at a Sydney hospital and he has assured me that COVID-19 is a serious health threat and that the benefits of the vaccine far outweigh the risks. He and my sister (who is a nurse) are fed up with all the know-it-alls out there who are undermining their efforts to help people live longer, healthier lives. I think there are too many dubious alternative media sources out there that are leading so many people down the rabbit hole, even people who I thought were intelligent and educated.
"You will need it (new vaccine passport) to... go surfing ."
Hutchy19 trying to outdo shortenism is the "Swellnet idiocy" competition.
Old-dog and neither could I really but its fun to razz you guys up. Like everyone I'm working my way through this whole thing and its been interesting on here. Supa has been on about the need for open debates for ages and he's spot on they don't exist, at least at the top. And where they do, they are quickly influenced in a particular direction. That should make everyone nervous. That leaves it up to us at the bottom to debate it but again we're largely influenced by our community, colleagues, friends and the info we're privy to and trust.
Most of the time as evident with Vic, at this bottom feeder level it turns into an emotional battle and turns into name calling abuse and probably worse. Smashed anything this morning Vic?
Anyway, I'm not peddling anything other than trying to push you guys to make the right informed choices. What worries me is I'm still yet to be convinced any of you really are informed because the information you need to truly be informed about long term consequences and expectations around booster shots etc doesn't exist.. Its an open ended contract you're participating in, which never ends well for the conforming party.
@ shorty, there is a touch of irony in that those 25 reasons you listed to not get the VP have been put together by a religious group of bible thumpers who value faith more than science...as for "rebuttal opinions", well who could honestly be bothered?
https://pursuitofglory.org/25-reasons-to-ban-vaccine-passports/
From their page:
FOUNDATIONAL CONVICTIONS – THINGS WE SHOULD DIE FOR:
The eternal triunity of Father, Son & Holy Spirit who exist as three persons in one essence.
The inspiration, inerrancy, infallibility and authority of the 66 books of the Bible.
Salvation by grace through faith alone in the all-sufficient death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The full humanity and full divinity of Jesus Christ.
The virgin birth and sinlessness of Jesus Christ.
The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to judge the world.
Eternal life for the redeemed and eternal death for the lost.
As for the vaccine passport, I don't like the idea of it, but what's the alternative?
Ohh FFS shortenism.
Your opinions are that ridiculous they should be mocked. What's more, if you got your anti-vaxxer / anti passport way, anyone with any brains can see the medical catastrophe that would happen.
The main reason why we need vaccine passports is to stop anti-vax nutters from putting others in danger. It's exactly the same reason we have working with children permits.
If you don't think employers have the right to use VPs, you can't hold a consistent position by saying working with children certificates are necessary.
Who could honestly be bothered westofthelake? Well you obviously went to lengths to find the source (as did I) And yeah I did get a bit uncomfortable about its origins, for sure.
Putting the authorship to one side the reasons outlined aren't faith or philosophically based are they? They are pretty solid and yet to have any of them called out as unreasonable? Or are you?
I welcome anyone putting time and effort into presenting perspectives on a non-debated topic by our elected leaders. When were we consulted about any of this.
Good on em. I'm not prejudice.
Vic Local - Yes surfing .
If the digital passport was available to the authorities now they would know where everyone is at any given moment . Are you within 5km of where you live , are you fishing in the right area , are you seeing someone who you allowed to .
When we run out of power in the next heat wave and they bring in rationing they will know when you put on the air con and at what level . How much water you are using etc .
They will know how much CO2 , gas or petrol you are using .
What you are buying and selling .
Do you really think they will let you do what you want ? No they will tell you what they want !
If this technology was available the Stasi they would be the first to have adopted it .
Our wonderful soldiers fought two World Wars so we could be free of tyranny ,
You are too silly to realise that you are willing to give it all away .
shorty, I guess time will tell and I will be looking forward to your humble pie eating in the future, unless you pull out the old we are all living in a matrix and nothin is real card.
"Here’s 25 reasons why Vaccine passport (VP) programs are dangerous. Dedicated to Cocojangles.
If anyone gets past 5 and still thinks they are good, then I can’t help."
I made it to number 4... lost interest... still think passports are shit...
do I win something?
"With international travel opening up at 80% vaccinated in November, the big question is how long will the vaccine passport stay in place. I’m thinking a while, a year plus"
geez I love your optimism... ya need it to be a stewardy I guess...
Im thinking 5 years plus
'bureaucratic inertia' (neil ferguson)
amongst other things...
Hey Hutchy, that's scary Orwellian stuff, but how is all that possible when you've got a piece of paper that says you're vaccinated? You don't have to have it on your phone.
"FFS. Also, your comment about Vic presenting the common view.. You sure about that?"
that's definitely a stretch
all he presents is hyperbolic partisan propaganda...
nothing more, nothing less, ...cosstantly...
I was a little shocked at Alan Joyce (CEO Qantas) announcement that international travelers will be required to have a covid 19 vaccination in order to travel on Qantas flights . The government wanted to have mandatory vaccination but after the bumbling of its release ( it was painful to watch the delivery of that announcement ) they withdrew the mandatory part but it seems Qantas and other business may demand a vaccination in order to use their services. I’m not anti vaccine by any means I just don’t trust this government or a vaccine that has been rushed through. A jab followed by another jab followed by yearly jabs doesn’t sit well with me as I have never had a flu shot or the flu for more than 20 years. Plus I don’t want to give this shot to my healthy 4 year old daughter. She is up to date with all her vaccinations but this covid vaccine is new and not being around for decades like the others. Tuberculosis remains the number one as far diseases go and you don’t need proof of vaccination to travel so what is going on ?