Vaccinate or not
I have been a bit apprehensive about posting this link, but I will do on the basis that the thread title is "Vaccinate or Not"., plus this guy has some very credible qualifications to speak on the subject matter. I have watched and listened several times to really understand and absorb his professional comments and views and most importantly, educated knowledge.
Being the former Pfizer Chief Scientist and what he has to say has prompted me to share it.....It possibly may have been presented before on SN, but I have not carried out my due diligence to check.....Apologies.....It is very worth taking the time to listen to his views and comments.
As for the negative term of "Anti-Vaxxer", they should reinstate the correct terminology of "Conscientious Objector"........
Enjoy......
And my favourite…lmao.
https://www.cityam.com/anti-vaxx-island-ex-pfizer-exec-behind-infertilit...
Just watched an ABC News story about nurses in ICU doing 12 hour shifts, coming home exhausted and massively dehydrated because they can't take off masks to drink.
This is why I have complete and utter contempt for people pushing anti-vax conspiracies, and people pushing unproven treatments for covid.
You people are cunts, dangerous cunts who are making life so difficult for good people. Just stop it.
Didn't push it VicLocal........Just posted it as thread content.....
Therein lies the reason for my apprehension....
Didn't mean to offend mate...
Buy the way VL, I'm in Vietnam where COVID lockdown has a large element of Communist regime about it and my wife and I prepare food packages daily for the poor and elderly so they don't have to go through our rubbish.....
Apologies for my cunt factor mate.....
That’s one of the things I like most about you Vic, you’re so very butch.
Thanks AndyM. I think!
megzee wrote:I have been a bit apprehensive about posting this link, but I will do on the basis that the thread title is "Vaccinate or Not"., plus this guy has some very credible qualifications to speak on the subject matter. I have watched and listened several times to really understand and absorb his professional comments and views and most importantly, educated knowledge.
Being the former Pfizer Chief Scientist and what he has to say has prompted me to share it.....It possibly may have been presented before on SN, but I have not carried out my due diligence to check.....Apologies.....It is very worth taking the time to listen to his views and comments.
As for the negative term of "Anti-Vaxxer", they should reinstate the correct terminology of "Conscientious Objector"........
Enjoy......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pENijjYcwBw
I will watch it when get a chance but with skepticism, when these things come up i always try to do a bit of a check on the person first to know a bit about them, it's not looking good.
"Yeadon falsely claimed that the COVID-19 pandemic in the United Kingdom was "effectively over" in October 2020,[12][13] that there would be no "second wave" of infections,[1][14] and that healthy people could not spread the SARS-CoV-2 virus.[15][16] He has claimed without evidence that COVID-19 vaccines were unnecessary,[17][14][15] unsafe,[16][18] and could cause infertility in women.[1][16][19] In a letter to the European Medicines Agency, Yeadon and the German physician Wolfgang Wodarg called for all vaccine trials to be stopped, falsely suggesting[20] that mRNA vaccines could target the syncytin-1 protein needed for placenta formation.[21] Several of these claims have been spread widely on social media.[1][12][16] Yeadon has also discouraged COVID-19 lockdowns and use of face masks despite evidence for their effectiveness[18] and alleged that vaccines were part of a deliberate attempt at "mass depopulation", saying recipients would die within two years.[7]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Yeadon
and articles
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-v...
https://www.aap.com.au/former-pfizer-scientist-wrong-on-asymptomatic-cov...
It's is weird when you get these kind of people that are involved in one thing often highly qualified experts then almost turn against it all, with the opposite views.
Cheers Indo.....just sharing........I listen and approach all sides objectively.....
Just checked with my dear old mum.....she confirmed I'm not a cunt......
You know what? At some point you have to put your trust in someone. The bloke in the video might be right. But he might not be. What I know for real is that there is a virus in the community and if it doesn't kill people, it can damn well fuck you up....and it puts pressure on the health system, which means that if you've got a lumpy exostosis or a friggin toothache then you're waiting - possibly a long time to get that shit fixed. Conspiracy theorists can whine all they like. The path out is vaccine. Like it or not. You've seen our politicians ad nauseam on the idiot box and on twitter. Do you really think they're smart enough to be part of a bigger conspiracy? Personally I'll take the Vaxx ( I already have - twice) . Even if it shortens my life / makes me sick down the track. You want to argue the merits the finer points - go ahead but you're wasting your time. Vaxx and be free. Don't vaxx and you won't be part of the broader community. Sorry for the rant. Two beers in tonight and a stream of consciousness post.
megzee wrote:Cheers Indo.....just sharing........I listen and approach all sides objectively.....
Just checked with my dear old mum.....she confirmed I'm not a cunt......
Yeah thats cool, i will watch it, just with a lot of skepticism.
Cool mate...... skepticism is a double edged sword
I'm still in the middle as expats here are last on the Vac roll out list...
Hope your getting a few barrels IndoD..
icandig wrote:You know what? At some point you have to put your trust in someone. The bloke in the video might be right. But he might not be. What I know for real is that there is a virus in the community and if it doesn't kill people, it can damn well fuck you up....and it puts pressure on the health system, which means that if you've got a lumpy exostosis or a friggin toothache then you're waiting - possibly a long time to get that shit fixed. Conspiracy theorists can whine all they like. The path out is vaccine. Like it or not. You've seen our politicians ad nauseam on the idiot box and on twitter. Do you really think they're smart enough to be part of a bigger conspiracy? Personally I'll take the Vaxx ( I already have - twice) . Even if it shortens my life / makes me sick down the track. You want to argue the merits the finer points - go ahead but you're wasting your time. Vaxx and be free. Don't vaxx and you won't be part of the broader community. Sorry for the rant. Two beers in tonight and a stream of consciousness post.
You know what icandig?
I hear ya!
Seriously megzee, why even share this absolute shite?
2 minutes on Google would have shown you the bloke is an absolute fraud.
Roadkill found 5 links in no time at all.
What's next, someone else shares crap from Clive Palmer or Craig Kelly to add to "the discussion"?
Some links just aren't worth the time of day.
VicLocal......Now I really do not know why I shared it....
I certainly didn't share my deep rooted opinion on the content.......I kept that to myself...
I'm in a foreign country I cannot get out of compounded by my country I cannot get back in to, so I thought I may subjectively contribute to the subject....Swellnet is my daily "go To "
Again, sorry to offend you so deeply...
megzee wrote:Didn't push it VicLocal........Just posted it as thread content.....
Therein lies the reason for my apprehension....
Didn't mean to offend mate...
Buy the way VL, I'm in Vietnam where COVID lockdown has a large element of Communist regime about it and my wife and I prepare food packages daily for the poor and elderly so they don't have to go through our rubbish.....
Apologies for my cunt factor mate.....
Thread content? Lmao..it took 30 sec to find out the guy has zero credibility and is spreading lies…lies which were debunked by many. This is agenda posting and has nothing to do with content. To post this and not have a disclaimer acknowledging it as a load of bs crap is to accept and agree with it.
megzee, just do a little check before hitting the send button.
Have a look at this Media Watch story about how things get out of control when bullshit is spread online.
don't apologise
there's only one cunt in that exchange
and your mum knows who it is...
Well noted and understood Roadkill.
I didn't realize disclaimers were the norm for posting links....
Lesson learnt I guess....But the thread title is Vaccinate or not.....The bloke only said not too.....
It only took 30 minutes to cop a tirade of abuse from you blokes....
I have apologized already for the way the post was presented, although without my opinion on it, so not sure what more I can do fella's
indo-dreaming wrote:megzee wrote:I have been a bit apprehensive about posting this link, but I will do on the basis that the thread title is "Vaccinate or Not"., plus this guy has some very credible qualifications to speak on the subject matter. I have watched and listened several times to really understand and absorb his professional comments and views and most importantly, educated knowledge.
Being the former Pfizer Chief Scientist and what he has to say has prompted me to share it.....It possibly may have been presented before on SN, but I have not carried out my due diligence to check.....Apologies.....It is very worth taking the time to listen to his views and comments.
As for the negative term of "Anti-Vaxxer", they should reinstate the correct terminology of "Conscientious Objector"........
Enjoy......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pENijjYcwBwI will watch it when get a chance but with skepticism, when these things come up i always try to do a bit of a check on the person first to know a bit about them, it's not looking good.
"Yeadon falsely claimed that the COVID-19 pandemic in the United Kingdom was "effectively over" in October 2020,[12][13] that there would be no "second wave" of infections,[1][14] and that healthy people could not spread the SARS-CoV-2 virus.[15][16] He has claimed without evidence that COVID-19 vaccines were unnecessary,[17][14][15] unsafe,[16][18] and could cause infertility in women.[1][16][19] In a letter to the European Medicines Agency, Yeadon and the German physician Wolfgang Wodarg called for all vaccine trials to be stopped, falsely suggesting[20] that mRNA vaccines could target the syncytin-1 protein needed for placenta formation.[21] Several of these claims have been spread widely on social media.[1][12][16] Yeadon has also discouraged COVID-19 lockdowns and use of face masks despite evidence for their effectiveness[18] and alleged that vaccines were part of a deliberate attempt at "mass depopulation", saying recipients would die within two years.[7]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Yeadon
and articles
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-v...
https://www.aap.com.au/former-pfizer-scientist-wrong-on-asymptomatic-cov...
It's is weird when you get these kind of people that are involved in one thing often highly qualified experts then almost turn against it all, with the opposite views.
You should read Roadkill’s “ debunk “ links. I don’t know this Pfizer guy from Adam and haven’t really heard of him till reading those links from Roadkill but they’re pretty instructive regarding the modern veneration and proliferation of these Fact-check deals.
The first seems to bolster the Pfizer blokes credentials before seemingly trying to semi- undermine him by providing a couple of anonymous and uncredentialed quotes that he’s lost the plot.
The next seems to do alright by taking the scientific angle but unfortunately trips itself up by then stating that natural immunity is less powerful than that provided by the vaccines, which is not just proven incorrect but basically discredits anything else they state with the same unfounded confidence.
Then there’s the one about the resort the Pfizer bloke is purportedly developing. Roadkill found this one hilarious( !!!) for some indeterminate reason. It had zero scientific credibility and wasn’t much more than some sad bugger who runs a workshop called Centre For Cyber Hate*, who decided that perpetuating the online hate at the Pfizer bloke into his Covid -unrelated tourism venture was the best way to spend his time.
I’m not sure on the science and it’s the first I’ve heard about the vaccine’s threat to fertility but I do know they were some extremely unconvincing links. Certainly nothing to match the credibility and scientific acumen of their intended target. One of the links even claimed a small victory when they mentioned that Pfizer bloke wasn’t Vice President of Pfizer but that he was only Vice President of Respiratory illness …..I’m not sure if that’s the best way to frame someone as uneducated when we are discussing an illness which is primarily respiratory?
"megzee, just do a little check before hitting the send button.
Have a look at this Media Watch story about how things get out of control when bullshit is spread online."
Noted VL......After this that send button is in the bin......
What ever happened to REAL surfers? You know, the ones that rebuked and distrusted authority and rules........
megzee wrote:Well noted and understood Roadkill.
I didn't realize disclaimers were the norm for posting links....
Lesson learnt I guess....But the thread title is Vaccinate or not.....The bloke only said not too.....
It only took 30 minutes to cop a tirade of abuse from you blokes....
I have apologized already for the way the post was presented, although without my opinion on it, so not sure what more I can do fella's
Don't worry too much about the ridicule. A lot of people here, there and everywhere think that if someone is an "expert" then they must be telling the truth. Anti-vaxx and pro-vaxx rely on this idea as support for their cause. As per usual, nothing ain't that simple!
Vic Local wrote:megzee, just do a little check before hitting the send button.
Have a look at this Media Watch story about how things get out of control when bullshit is spread online.
https://youtu.be/C6rL78wspz4
With respect VL....Media Watch has been called out more than once for bias and inaccuracies as well. A little check (I assume you mean a Google Search) is hardly detailed research. I'm sure you are more well versed than myself, but you can't claim to know all of the facts. In fact nobody can it's an endless rabbit hole. Some of you Sypkan / Blowin / D Rex / Hutch seem more interested in continuing a pointless argument than accepting peoples differences and being civil. People on this site freely call each other cunts and attack the person and for one I'm a bit over it. Fair enough call people out for being dickhead, but to jump on someone for posting something they found is no different to you googling a you tube video and posting that. Chill the fuck out. Practice some kindness.
Well noted and understood Roadkill.
I didn't realize disclaimers were the norm for posting links....
Lesson learnt I guess....But the thread title is Vaccinate or not.....The bloke only said not too.....
It only took 30 minutes to cop a tirade of abuse from you blokes....
I have apologized already for the way the post was presented, although without my opinion on it, so not sure what more I can do fella's
Megzee- I haven’t watched your vid yet but thanks for sharing. Hope you’re doing OK over there. Don’t fret about a tourism spruiker from Vicco and a superstar kiwi tradie living in QLD. Neither are anymore of an expert than you or I. Voice your opinion and don’t be cowed by those yappy gronks.
I'm cool wth you megzee. Videos like this hit a bit of a nerve when you're married to, and know heaps of medical professionals who are really struggling with treating patients during the time of covid. Medicos basically have to wrap themselves in plastic bags for hours on end during extended shifts. It's hot and very uncomfortable work at best,
There's no shortage of medical organisations publishing really accurate articles and research on Covid. Places and publications like Johns Hopkins, The Lancet, Burnett Institute, Doherty Insitute etc etc etc should be linked here for sensible debate. It's utterly crazy that most of the links about covid on this site are to YouTube videos, grifters, and just flat out non-medically trained chancers.
Oh and megzee, I wouldn't listen to anything blowin says. The bloke is one of the biggest bullshit artists in Australia.
icandig wrote:Vic Local wrote:megzee, just do a little check before hitting the send button.
Have a look at this Media Watch story about how things get out of control when bullshit is spread online.
https://youtu.be/C6rL78wspz4With respect VL....Media Watch has been called out more than once for bias and inaccuracies as well. A little check (I assume you mean a Google Search) is hardly detailed research. I'm sure you are more well versed than myself, but you can't claim to know all of the facts. In fact nobody can it's an endless rabbit hole. Some of you Sypkan / Blowin / D Rex / Hutch seem more interested in continuing a pointless argument than accepting peoples differences and being civil. People on this site freely call each other cunts and attack the person and for one I'm a bit over it. Fair enough call people out for being dickhead, but to jump on someone for posting something they found is no different to you googling a you tube video and posting that. Chill the fuck out. Practice some kindness.
Spot on! So many angry kents on 'ere!
Cheers Blowin......
Got bombarded no doubt.......
Hope your mum is back on track health wise mate
“….and just flat out non-medically trained chancers”
Says the tourism spruiker as he offhand dismisses the video opinion of a fella who is twenty million times more qualified and educated on this very topic than his nurse Mrs and his GP mates.
A few more decades practice and he might get to your level of flippant dismissal of expert opinion hey chief.
Whatever blowin you complete and utter twat.
My opinions on Covid have been influenced by, and are very consistent with, the world's premier medical organisations and well respected medical publications.
You claim Covid has a survival rate of 99.98% which is complete and utter bullshit.
But of course you know better than the world's leading virologists and public health experts because you found some stuff on YouTube and google. YOU ARE A CLOWN. A SAD PATHETIC STUPID CLOWN.
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mike-yeadon-3818613
From Roadkill’s link : Michael Yeadon, wasn’t just any scientist. The 60-year-old is a former vice president of Pfizer, where he spent 16 years as an allergy and respiratory researcher. He later co-founded a biotech firm that the Swiss drugmaker Novartis purchased for at least $325 million.
Vic Local ( Tourism spruiker ) : “Two minutes on Google will tell you this guy is an absolute fraud”
Roadkill ( Kiwi superstar tradie ) : “ It took 30 seconds to see this guy has no credibility “
If I was put in a tight spot I’d probably take the Professional respiratory illness scientist’s credibility on a matter concerning a respiratory illness before that of the tourism spruiker and the superstar kiwi tradie.
Vic Local wrote:There's no shortage of medical organisations publishing really accurate articles and research on Covid. Places and publications like Johns Hopkins, The Lancet, Burnett Institute, Doherty Insitute etc etc etc should be linked here for sensible debate. It's utterly crazy that most of the links about covid on this site are to YouTube videos, grifters, and just flat out non-medically trained chancers.
Mate, I'm not disregarding the above publications and nothing is stopping you from posting links to the articles. But, didn't just post a you tube video? I'd hazard a guess and say that if you did indeed post the above links, not many would bother reading them and we'd continue the circle work. Maybe, just maybe this is not the place for well informed, measured and respectful debate. Perhaps leave that up to the medicos. You blokes can have it. Over and out.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
blowin's pointing to the guy's LinkedIn page to prove Michael Yeadon isn't a fraud.
Yeadon said in November last year, there was no need to vaccinate to beat Covid. He also claimed vaccination caused infertility in women.
No wonder you like this bloke blowin, he bullshits at your extreme level.
Blowin wrote:https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mike-yeadon-3818613
From Roadkill’s link : Michael Yeadon, wasn’t just any scientist. The 60-year-old is a former vice president of Pfizer, where he spent 16 years as an allergy and respiratory researcher. He later co-founded a biotech firm that the Swiss drugmaker Novartis purchased for at least $325 million.
Vic Local ( Tourism spruiker ) : “Two minutes on Google will tell you this guy is an absolute fraud”
Roadkill ( Kiwi superstar tradie ) : “ It took 30 seconds to see this guy has no credibility “
If I was put in a tight spot I’d probably take the Professional respiratory illness scientist’s credibility on a matter concerning a respiratory illness before that of the tourism spruiker and the superstar kiwi tradie.
Was once a professional and now wants to build a resort for fellow conspiracy theorists…I’m sure you will be welcomed princess snowflake blowin.
The Internet sure is proving to be a big pile of shit
“the pandemic is fundamentally over in the U.K.,” Nov 2020
"there is 'no need for vaccines"
“I would say it (asymptomatic people spreading covid) is rare and doesn’t happen.”
vaccines cause infertility in women.
These are four things your medical hero has said blowin. And on each occasions Yeadon was BULL SHITTING, BULL SHITTING, BULL SHITTING, and BULL SHITTING, No wonder he's your "expert".
"Was once a professional and now wants to build a resort for fellow conspiracy theorists…I’m sure you will be welcomed princess snowflake blowin." Gold Roadkill.
shoredump wrote:The Internet sure is proving to be a big pile of shit
Yep it's a big pile of Debbie Doo.
There’s not a single shred of proof that the current vaccines are the way to beat Covid. It’s already been expressly stated that the current vaccines with their extremely limited duration and efficacy will need to be readministered unto infinity. This is despite the vaccines only providing limited resistance to the current strains of virus and far from any certainty that illness, death , hospitalisation or transmission will be prevented in any individual.
That’s not beating the virus, it’s procrastinating the effects of a virus which generally impacts only the elderly and the already ill. As I see it it’s better to let healthy people be exposed to the virus whilst their bodies are strong enough to resist it and so they have the better form of immunity as they age and become infirm themselves.
I reckon the elderly and vulnerable should be vaccinated and everyone else should go about their lives whilst still maintaining a consciousness towards social distancing where possible. This way the virus will slowly permeate humanity without overloading our shamefully under resourced Heath systems.
That’s how you beat the virus. Not by hiding healthy people in their homes then injecting them with a substance of wavering efficacy and regularly harmful side effects. If their was a vaccine like the smallpox vaccine which eradicated the problem I’d be all over it. But there isn’t. It’s a mock vaccine which provides a few months of semi-protection. That’s not an answer. Particularly when you’re in a demographic which isn’t especially vulnerable to the virus.
Now if only the selfish and shrill old fear mongers like yourself would pipe down, then maybe humanity could move forward. I realise that you’re utterly buffed out with government largess as you laze next to your local beach and are not inconvenienced by lockdowns in your name , but there’s many many people hurting out there both financially and emotionally.
For fucks sake lads....can I have my cat back?
Hope most of the pigeons survived?
Gents, I did not make any objective or subjective comments with my post, I was merely sharing on a sharable, debate based format.
I certainly did not mean to fuel the ongoing blue between a few of you fine lads.
When I started surfing at 11 in 1969, surfers were frowned upon because we rebuked and questioned authority.....you know, parents, big sister/brother, clubbies, police [ Coolangatta Narcs ].....etc, etc....I carried that, not as a burden or attitude, but as my right to question things.......Back then TV news was the least of my worries [ Except the footage of MP being arrested on the Story Bridge...
Point being...
There is always going to be a clear divide between our observations, opinions and approach....
Character assassination is for teenagers and kids.....we are men!
Sorry for posting something I found interesting enough to share...
Megzee....out....
you seem totally ignorant to some of the conplete backflip changing (developing) positions from the WHO vicvocal...
some big big backflips and corrections, on some pretty significant positions... pretty damning and undermining for an institution such as the WHO...
you ignorant?
or blocking it all out?
yet you grab this guy by the balls, both hands, full twist, from some calls he's made that may be proven wrong, maybe not...
very absolutist... yet again...
personally, I don't buy half of the shit he's selling, but I think he raises some good points. especially as he's well well qualified, and has an insiders perspective...
but you continue to go hard with your no platform bullshit if you must, your sheer irrationality, outrageous bias, and bloody mindedness is a laugh if nothing else...
megzee, seriously dude, you did nothing wrong, most people are willing to discuss the vid on its merits, as normal people do...
it's just one big man karen that's lost his shit and is yelling at the manager...
again...
"you seem totally ignorant to some of the conplete (sic) backflip changing (developing) positions from the WHO"
Wrong sypkan. I fully acknowledge WHO have changed their position on Covid, especially early in the pandemic. What a shitty start to a post.
"yet you grab this guy by the balls from some calls he's made that may be proven wrong, maybe not..."
Maybe not? Oh FFS, they are wrong. He's put out so flat out crazy opinions that have no evidence to support them. Saying Covid is effectively over in the UK on Nov 2020 is wrong. There's no doubting that.
"personally, I don't buy half of the shit he's selling, but I think he raises dome good points. especially as he's well well qualified, and has an insiders perspective..."
Insider's perspective? He left Pfizer in 2010. 9 years before covid arrived.
"well qualified". That may be true once, but even a quick check of this guy's ridiculous recent statements proves he has zero credibility anymore.
"but you continue to go hard with your no platform bullshit if you must, your sheer irrationality, bias, and bloodymindedness is a laugh if nothing else..."
Misinformation like this has consequences. Anti-vaxxers are ending up in body bags, and they also prolong lockdowns. They are stupid cunts. Now that would be fine if they are only harming themselves. but they are causing mayhem for others.
You seem to have a bigger problem with me calling out pure bullshit than the nutters spreading dangerous and completely inaccurate information. Weird set of priorities mate.
you seem totally ignorant to some of the conplete backflip changing (developing) positions from the WHO vicvocal
Actually, science will keep collecting and updating data…as more evidence is looked at and reviewed, science can change and often does. It’s not always a case of backflipping but updating what is known.
Vic, for all you know as a result of taking your jab(s) you could end up being a total vegetable with sypkan feeding you from a straw in years to come. Be nice to your fellow humans.
When are the coppers going to do something about the @#$& from Bankstown who’ve been breaching lockdowns and heading to the mid north coast NSW chasing snapper ?
“We don’t care ulleh!”
Sure does Roadkill. DDT, Asbestos, Thalidomide, Glysophate, Cigarettes, COVID vaccines. All sounded like miracles at the start.
shortenism wrote:Vic, for all you know as a result of taking your jab(s) you could end up being a total vegetable with sypkan feeding you from a straw in years to come. Be nice to your fellow humans.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-07/astrazeneca-sarah-gilbert-says-cl...
shortenism wrote:Sure does Roadkill. DDT, Asbestos, Thalidomide, Glysophate, Cigarettes, COVID vaccines. All sounded like miracles at the start.
You showed your contempt for science when you willingly added covid to the list.
I was a little shocked at Alan Joyce (CEO Qantas) announcement that international travelers will be required to have a covid 19 vaccination in order to travel on Qantas flights . The government wanted to have mandatory vaccination but after the bumbling of its release ( it was painful to watch the delivery of that announcement ) they withdrew the mandatory part but it seems Qantas and other business may demand a vaccination in order to use their services. I’m not anti vaccine by any means I just don’t trust this government or a vaccine that has been rushed through. A jab followed by another jab followed by yearly jabs doesn’t sit well with me as I have never had a flu shot or the flu for more than 20 years. Plus I don’t want to give this shot to my healthy 4 year old daughter. She is up to date with all her vaccinations but this covid vaccine is new and not being around for decades like the others. Tuberculosis remains the number one as far diseases go and you don’t need proof of vaccination to travel so what is going on ?