The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

bluediamond started the topic in

Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

adam12 Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 7:51pm

"Do you think the main goal is to close the gap though?"

Day after day, month after month, morning to late at night, posting racist crap, scouring the internet for racist crap to post, fishing for replies you can contradict with your racist crap.
What's your point Indo-dipshit?
We get it, you're voting No.
Go be a husband to your wife and a father to your kids. Go get some waves. Get yourself a life outside this bullshit you are OCDing over.
It can't be healthy to spend all day, every day locked in this perpetual loop of nastiness and paranoia about something that will make FUCK ALL difference to your life but may to FNP's lives.
I'm beginning to doubt your sanity.
Give it a rest mate, you've made your point, endlessly. It's so fucking boring.

southernraw Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 8:13pm

Wilhelm Scream]#And We've Just Hit The 500 Comment Mark From The One & Only.
[quote=Wilhelm Scream
wrote:
#Rinse & Repeat

stunet wrote:
Lo-Info,

Everyone is suffocating under piles of your overzealous yet underwhelming opinions.

You win every argument based on nothing but volume.

Can you just back off, mate?

Exactly.
FFS, stop engaging with the clown.

indo-dreaming Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 8:28pm

Adam you have every right to your opinion (even if its just complete trash), but if you dont like mine that's fine just ignore my post like i ignore those who just post complete off topic nonsense or avoid the thread if you dont want to talk about the topic, i avoid heaps of threads, its really not that hard

I dont expect you want to post something of substance and have a go at my simple question?

basesix Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 8:29pm

bit different to other threads Indo; real people's futures discussed by we the pontificators.
No-one likes seeing this thread's intentions trivialised, or sitting in pole-possy as swellnet's number-one politicised-entertainment forum topic.

Supafreak Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 8:30pm

Jelly Flater Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 8:43pm

Haha

Indo trying to accuse other people’s opinions of being ‘complete trash’ ;)
… whilst also having the gall to challenge them to post something of ‘substance’ ? Wtf. Really?

https://m.

&pp=ygUiQWJvcmlnaW5hbCBzb25nIHdhbGtpbmcgb24gaGlnaHdheQ%3D%3D

basesix Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 8:52pm

there you go, show us the way, JF!! Let's give our mates a Voice on this thread. No need for the politicising to be given the Voice on this thread. Find some cool-shit, go exploring and post some REAL Voices : )

basesix Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 9:06pm

(great cartoon supa, billy bain's 'changing tides' film made me feel stronger as a white feller, we're an aussie family together, making all the truths, complexities and stories strong, makes us robust as fuck, and maybe eventually something to be proud of globally. 'Simple narrative' in history looks sad and fragile as archaeopteryx bones in a british museum..)

A repeat post, king stingray, this time dedicated to JF:

("I don't know where we went wrong,
we're just kids trying to get back home,
who's gonna lead us, who's gonna follow?
Show me the way..")

southernraw Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 9:05pm

Ken Oath @basesix @jf.

truebluebasher Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 9:16pm

Ok...if not today then when...
9th Wed Aug ~ Albo : "Between AFL Final < > Melbourne Cup Day!"
14th Oct ~ Tipped as the Day! From today = 65 days being the least urgent Reffo ever.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/voice-referendum-to-be-held...

Reffo $Cost / Vote is rounded out to 2022 roll / $AUD

[Lib] 1967 Reffo $1m / roll 6.18m / $2.40 / Vote (Called 93 days early)
ALP 1988 Reffo $34.5m / roll 10.36m / $8.50 / Vote (Quicky n/a)
[Lib] 1999 Reffo $66.8m / roll 12.4m / $10.00 / Vote (Called 86 days early)
[Lib] 2017 Plebo $256.5m / roll 16m / $16.00 / Vote (Called 75 days early)
ALP 2023 Reffo $364.6m / roll 18m / $20.25 / Vote (Call waiting 65 days)

(Correct) Resolute Shopper Docket is compiled by 60y/o Non voter...so there's yer 1st problem
Damn is that a hot looking perfectly scaled rort goin' on...man that leaves them consultants drooling!

1967 > 2023 Reffo > 10x cost in 2022 $Vote (Yes! tbb converted $ / Roll to 2022...honest!)
1967 > 2023 Reffo > Duration (40-50% less) 93days > 86days > 75days> 65-19 days

Recap : Reffo = 10x more cost for 50% duration or 20x more expensive than 1967.
Explains why Albo shows least respect for Reffo Process & wants it over before it begins...All say Aye!

[ Factcheck ] Previous more urgent Reffo's / Plebs would be long polling well into Week 2 > 3 already

Albo's Reffo is the most delayed least urgent most expensive Reffo in our lifetime.
It will be the least respectful most rushed Reffo in history.
History shows any future Reffo will cost way more & run for even less duration than current Reffo.

This is why Albo rides the fake Mantra of Vital Respectful urgent First Nation Vote.
Ya see! When yer PM Shouts down yer throat with the same Mantra then one should question why!
All media / Opposition / Voters fail to see the bigger picture here...
All are mad about something that's staring back at them in their face! But Wot!

Reffos now cost 20x more...so we need a better more affordable democratic process...well durr!

You've all been had by Albo's spin as he steers everyone away from failed Reffo process.
tbb like crew heard it once too much...Exactly why tbb sussed it with this bullshit detector.

Albo's Reffo is NON URGENT > He alone has stalled & delayed Reffo by 2-3 weeks > soon months.
Albo is delaying Reffo to least respectful Ballot in history > most resembling a Putt Putt Score card.

Your Precious Vote now costs 10x more to buy...but it's worth 50% less in value.
Any school kid studying AEC history would feel sick at premium Vote Rort industry.
Exactly why Albo intros Direct Enrolment to force our Gromz to Vote...How sick is that!
Ask : Why force people to partake in highest 20x inflation racket in the name of Democracy...

Real reason is because majority of voters are over 48 y/o & typically vote conservative as they age.
Voice has boosted like minded Aborigines to Lock in 10 Fed seats + Direct enroll more (Left) Youth
Pretty much like the Yes Pleb...they leave it hanging on the Vine as bait...C'mon Gromz...take the bite!
Albo cares least if Voice gets up coz he just exploited it to lock in extra ALP terms...(The main Game)
These Last 2 Yes/No Polls have stoked record Youth Enrollment...that's the Honey Pot.

Right here & now Oz stares into the Abyss...coz ya can't afford another Reffo...this could be the last!
Albo may have mandated the locking in of 1m Youthful colourful Left voters + 10 seats but at a cost.
Forget about Republic after this shemozzle...Pinball Machine has Tilted & won't reboot! Game Over!
Estimate : $500m or $30 / Vote as yer starting price for current term Republic Reffo! (All see that!)
ALP won't be runnin' with Albo on that one...not at that price...Now ya see the true cost!
ALP may have bought the next election but will need a new PM for their Republic Reffo...All say Aye!

seeds Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 9:26pm

@ basesix Brilliant! This works well. Loved the original also. Gravel pit that is. Maybe not as meaningful in Old Dirty Bast..ds version

basesix Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 9:34pm

(could play this all night tbb, but fun to make a list)
I think it will be the last awkward referendum, fer sure,
'new australians' don't want 'anyone else' - even our FNPs -
to get favors or political clout of any kind, fer sure ; )

basesix Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 9:28pm

this is more an exercise in playing with the childish gambino track, like a thank god you're here, but as an exercise, brilliant

&t=166s
(as an aside, the dp that decided the electricity pole from 2:46 should be placed in the shot to KINDA be like a mast, but not obscure the captain, JEE-NEE-US)

seeds Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 10:21pm

I thought it looks like a very tall stern light. Pretty straight up clip also!!

seeds Thursday, 10 Aug 2023 at 10:54pm

there you go, show us the way, JF!! Let's give our mates a Voice on this thread.

Fairly recent one. Ticks my bluesy, country twang fetish. Briggs has a good voice. TCD wrote it.

sypkan Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 6:17am

Wilhelm Scream wrote:
From pg. 48 above in the link (full references cited there):

WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CALLS FOR MORE DETAIL?

As we have just indicated, one of the major criticisms of the Voice is that there is not enough detail available about how it would be structured or its specific powers. It is obvious that the detail will become very important if the Yes vote succeeds in the Referendum and parliament has to debate how to put it into effect. But what is the significance of calls for more detail now?

Calls for more detail in the pre-referendum stage, made both by the media and politicians, have appeared for the most part to be politically oriented. From one side they have been criticised by a variety of academics, politicians and journalists. Megan Davis, for example, asserts that these requests are not born out of genuine concern but are merely ‘performative’ and may result from a political opposition to the Voice. In these terms, according to Patrick Dodson, Special Envoy for Reconciliation and the Implementation of the Uluru Statement from the Heart, no matter what details or explanations are given, those calling for details won’t ever be satisfied.

The media’s extensive coverage of the debate around detail has also been criticised for diverting public attention from the benefits a Voice could bring to Indigenous communities and the efforts which went into the Uluru Statement from the Heart. Megan Davis notes that much of the current discussion in the media treats the Voice referendum in the same way as it did the republic referendum, which involved significant alterations to the Constitution. By contrast, she says, the Voice referendum would create no more than a ‘single enabling provision’ and the details being called for would not be written into the Constitution. The parliament would pass legislation on the details as it saw fit at a later date, and these laws would be subject to change should the Voice not function effectively.

As a number of commentators have noted, the politicians calling for more detail are precisely the same people who would be central to the process of debating the details in the future, so they should, in principle, be able to say now what details they themselves will argue for. From the other side, we could not find reflective defences of why the opponents of the Voice are calling for more detail in the pre-referendum stage.

According to legal expert, Anne Twomey, deferring decisions on the detail of the Voice to Parliament serves several positive purposes, none of which includes withholding information from the public. These include maintaining the flexibility of the body, allowing it to be adapted as the needs of Indigenous communities change, and allowing the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander population to further contribute to its design. The current focus on details in the media may distract from the substantive question put to the Australian people in the referendum: that is, whether there should or shouldn’t be a representative body to aid the Australian government in creating legislation impacting Indigenous communities.

# What A Load of Crap

Supafreak Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 6:52am

Must be some tension in the smoko room at sky news .

For once Chris Kenny put out some true facts about The Uluṟu Statement last night on Sky. Completely debunking the misinformation that Peta Credlin & other conspiracy theorists are putting out there. pic.twitter.com/xWCZgH2J8d
— Belinduh Pyne (@belinduhpyne) August 9, 2023

sypkan Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 8:14am

^^^

hardly 'completely debunking' anything....

this whole thing is now so dumb its mindblowing

ol' mate is right though, the information has always been there...

the whole point is, the yes crew were selling the 20 odd page document way way back at the start, ...before albo went all in with his... 'its a very elegant little A4 page' argument...

the change in language was totally noticeable for anyone who was paying attention

the dishonesty is in albo so vehemently claiming that...'that's it!'

and then very ambiguously NOT answering questions with his now very monotonous... 'I support the uluru statement in full'

both sides are bullshitting

the only real surprise is... it took dutton and co. so long to work it out...

the dude's a fence post

Supafreak Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 8:21am

truebluebasher Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 8:44am

Nice work crew...need more vidz & toonz...

Just wonderin' if any picked up the Mob's Hard Road being the drivin' force in these Vidz.

tbb read's First Nation Constellation mirrored as song lines that became the invader's roads.
So we see First Nation take to the roads reclaiming their Song Lines and Dreamtime.

There is no doubt that mobs protesting on Roads are driving Global Revolution in our Cities & Outback.
Street marches marched over (MTV Gigs > Online Polls)...as #1 Revolutionary Hour of Power
Only now underestimating the power of shuttin' down supply lines...now goin' next level.

Check how powerful the Mob's presence on the road is...has that element of powerful confrontation.
Bang for yer buck!
Also these outback roads are an instant go to ready mix revenge prop + Throw in a Tower of Power!

Meanwhile back in the city...
Every driver is an actor in a mobile film studio but please don't use yer phone while making yer movies!

indo-dreaming Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 9:47am

basesix wrote:
bit different to other threads Indo; real people's futures discussed by we the pontificators.
No-one likes seeing this thread's intentions trivialised, or sitting in pole-possy as swellnet's number-one politicised-entertainment forum topic.

The thread at this stage is really about the voice which like it or not is the biggest political and social issue of the year and one of the few times we will vote in a referendum.

Its only natural we discuss it and have a view and some views will differ and in all honesty my views and concern's are now much stronger the more i read and learn.(and im mostly talking from official yes camp docs)

See the difference in our views is you probably really do believe a Yes result would have a positive effect on Aboriginal peoples life's, while i and a lot of people including some Aboriginal people dont, i and many others actually think it could cause a riff and resentment towards indigenous people and if gets up its going to be the start of much more that will also cause all types of problems.

Im believing the things people like Thomas Mayo or aspects of the docs say, im not buying the candy coated sales pitch, im going off whats been said or written when there was nothing to lose.

The WA laws recently were just one small example, now imagine if that had been a voice request and they then went back on things when issue's arose, could there be legal consequence's?.

I dont know, but i do know it would be very hard for government to scrap the policy as the political pressure would be crazy.

Anyway end of the day its a forum and this is the topic of discussion and people need to respect the fact that not everyone shares the same views.

Jelly Flater wrote:
Haha

Indo trying to accuse other people’s opinions of being ‘complete trash’ ;)
… whilst also having the gall to challenge them to post something of ‘substance’ ? Wtf. Really?

You might not agree with my views but im sticking to the topic around the voice, im not attacking people calling them racist or BS about their family that they have absolutely no idea about, purely because i dont agree with them, THATS WHAT TRASH TALK IS , and i sure as hell aint posting completely off topic nonsense trying to stir up shit like some. (not talking about you)

While in contrast post of substance are post that share views that are on topic, its irrelevant if the views are pro Yes or pro No.

indo-dreaming Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 10:01am

Supafreak wrote:

These articles attacking Warren for changing his political views i always find weird, or just weird that people can hold one political view all their life's or don't understand that people can change views, like really did you(as in anyone that holds that view) just happen to get it right from the get go?...You havent evolved and changed as a person over time?

I sure have im not the same person i was at 20 or even 30 maybe even changed a bit since 40 ive gone from Greens(for a long time), to Labor to voting for parties like Sustainable Australia party to One nation (as a protest vote) to LNP (i kind of think i wont but maybe in time i might change again)

Both Labor and LNP have also changed over time, even posters here have observed the change and romanticise for the old Labor of say Hawk or even Keating era. (your Blowin & Sypkan types)

Warren has also worked in government with past federal advisory bodies, he knows the ins and out and reality of it all, his view is a highly educated and experienced one.

BTW. If you didn't know Warrens focus these days is more on practical solutions helping Aboriginal people develop business like through https://nyunggablack.com/ or been involved in other similar ideas like https://riseventures.com.au/ or other past ventures like Australian Indigenous Chamber of Commerce

Or improving education and health outcomes like http://www.aief.com.au/

There is probably more he has or is involved in, he aint just some No voice campaigner or politician .

Jelly Flater Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 9:59am

;)

https://m.

Supafreak Friday, 11 Aug 2023 at 6:53pm

Supafreak Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 8:10am

“It is an insult to all Australian people that someone who failed so drastically continues to be given media space and keynote speeches to lecture on Indigenous affairs and our history,” he said.
“In short, our communities were gutted and ignored, Closing the Gap (between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians) went backward – and Abbott now believes he can lecture the Australian people.”
Mr Abbott told the Institute of Public Affairs this week that a successful referendum on the voice would “entrench victimhood” in the Constitution. https://michaelwest.com.au/no-lies-uluru-dialogue-calls-for-voice-treaty...

AlfredWallace Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 9:53am

Supafreak wrote:
“It is an insult to all Australian people that someone who failed so drastically continues to be given media space and keynote speeches to lecture on Indigenous affairs and our history,” he said.
“In short, our communities were gutted and ignored, Closing the Gap (between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians) went backward – and Abbott now believes he can lecture the Australian people.”
Mr Abbott told the Institute of Public Affairs this week that a successful referendum on the voice would “entrench victimhood” in the Constitution. https://michaelwest.com.au/no-lies-uluru-dialogue-calls-for-voice-treaty...

Supafreak.Hi. I still to this day cannot believe he was voted in by Australians in the first place, to me, it’s says a lot about us as a nation, not a too good one, at that.

Said it before, we need an ‘Abbott proof fence’ AW.

Supafreak Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 11:56am

AlfredWallace wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
“It is an insult to all Australian people that someone who failed so drastically continues to be given media space and keynote speeches to lecture on Indigenous affairs and our history,” he said.
“In short, our communities were gutted and ignored, Closing the Gap (between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians) went backward – and Abbott now believes he can lecture the Australian people.”
Mr Abbott told the Institute of Public Affairs this week that a successful referendum on the voice would “entrench victimhood” in the Constitution. https://michaelwest.com.au/no-lies-uluru-dialogue-calls-for-voice-treaty...

Supafreak.Hi. I still to this day cannot believe he was voted in by Australians in the first place, to me, it’s says a lot about us as a nation, not a too good one, at that.

Said it before, we need an ‘Abbott proof fence’ AW.

I’m curious to how he spends his $300,000 a year . https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/tony-abbott-scores-300000-pension-0603...

basesix Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 11:59am

truebluebasher wrote:
Nice work crew...need more vidz & toonz...

Just wonderin' if any picked up the Mob's Hard Road being the drivin' force in these Vidz.

tbb read's First Nation Constellation mirrored as song lines that became the invader's roads.
So we see First Nation take to the roads reclaiming their Song Lines and Dreamtime.

There is no doubt that mobs protesting on Roads are driving Global Revolution in our Cities & Outback.
Street marches marched over (MTV Gigs > Online Polls)...as #1 Revolutionary Hour of Power
Only now underestimating the power of shuttin' down supply lines...now goin' next level.

Check how powerful the Mob's presence on the road is...has that element of powerful confrontation.
Bang for yer buck!
Also these outback roads are an instant go to ready mix revenge prop + Throw in a Tower of Power!

Meanwhile back in the city...
Every driver is an actor in a mobile film studio but please don't use yer phone while making yer movies!

haha, nice tbb! love it when you turn that analytical machine in yer head to the arts. Saltwater Cowboys of Broome.. the end of the road?
https://ictv.com.au/video/item/985

AlfredWallace Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 12:30pm

Supafreak wrote:
AlfredWallace wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
“It is an insult to all Australian people that someone who failed so drastically continues to be given media space and keynote speeches to lecture on Indigenous affairs and our history,” he said.
“In short, our communities were gutted and ignored, Closing the Gap (between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians) went backward – and Abbott now believes he can lecture the Australian people.”
Mr Abbott told the Institute of Public Affairs this week that a successful referendum on the voice would “entrench victimhood” in the Constitution. https://michaelwest.com.au/no-lies-uluru-dialogue-calls-for-voice-treaty...

Supafreak.Hi. I still to this day cannot believe he was voted in by Australians in the first place, to me, it’s says a lot about us as a nation, not a too good one, at that.

Said it before, we need an ‘Abbott proof fence’ AW.

I’m curious to how he spends his $300,000 a year . https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/tony-abbott-scores-300000-pension-0603...

Supafreak. 300K a year. For what ? Not a good return on investment.

I’m pretty sure Abbott shops at the Not Quite Right small chain grocery store , but only if it has religious ownership. Nuff Nuff !!!

He actually was our Prime Minister, gabberflasted !!. AW

basesix Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 12:39pm

Haha, good call AW, Misterabbit would totally shop at the Leftorium..

adam12 Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 1:25pm

AW "I’m pretty sure Abbott shops at the Not Quite Right small chain grocery store , but only if it has religious ownership. Nuff Nuff !!!"

I know the guy who started NQR, definitely not religious, sold it to an investment fund for $millions, they fucked it up and he bought it back for a lot less, did an Alan Bond/Packer/Nine network. He then sold it again to the guys that own Bakers' Delight and cashed in again. Would like to say nice things about him but he's a bit of a prick really.

adam12 Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 2:14pm

"We need to have a voice. We need to be heard.We need to be seen. But we also need guarantees that we just don't have bodies set up and then they're just destroyed by governments at governments will. We actually have bodies that are fully recognised and have the force of law and constitutional law behind them."
And...
"The push for recognition needs to capture the hearts and minds of Indigenous Australians. It must not be framed around the way others have looked at us, but how we look at ourselves. It must not be about recognising a race of people, but about recognising the First Nations of our country and the mobs to which each of us still belong."
"Nyunggai Warren Mundine AO calls for a constitutionally guaranteed Indigenous voice to parliament in the publication of his essay Practical Recognition from the Mob's Perspective-enabling our mobs to speak for country"
https://www.sbs.com.au/language/nitv-radio/en/article/a-guarantee-that-t...

Uncle Warren in 2017.
He's so full of shit.

"I'm always good at switching" he says in 2023
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8099801/change-my-mind-mundines-c...

GuySmiley Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 2:11pm

Supafreak wrote:

Nikki Savva so eloquently describes Abbott’s performance as PM thus “ he (Abbott) was so overwhelmed by the job he outsourced it to Peta Credlin”.

Supafreak Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 2:17pm

Warren Mundine speaking in 2017. #auspol pic.twitter.com/Fpbn5EF4nR
— PRGuy (@PRGuy17) August 11, 2023

. Listen to what wazza had to say about a voice .

indo-dreaming Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 5:09pm

Good to see he finally wised up (he does still support Treaty i believe but nobody is perfect), id expect when he saw that it wasn't going to be the thing he expected and was just full of bitter gravy train grifters like Marcia Thomas Mayo etc and more about chasing more money and power he wised up.

You sure don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Its pretty obvious just by the basic make up of the seats thats its not aimed at helping indigenous people in real need or closing the gap, if it was the areas with the issues would be the ones holding the majority of seats and be the focus.

Mostly remote areas and selected regional areas, some smaller cities like Alice Springs and only major cities like Darwin needing a voice, but thats not how it is.

You have 24 seats

Torres straight island get x3 (by far more than enough they really only need one max two but thats politics at work there hey)

Each state and territory has two so x16 (one in each city, only city that needs one really is Darwin and ACT come on they can do without.

Then only five additional spots for remote communities in states that are relevant. (so no Vic, Tas or ACT, at least they got this right)

Which is all back to front, the majority in any meetings or votes on what issues they will focus or suggest etc will be the city folk that are more worried about brain dead irrelevant shit like changing the date of Australia day.

Anyway most Australians are already seeing it all for what it really is, and after the last week or two, one page or 26 page BS and complete back flips and blatant lies and deception, id expect polls to drop even more, especially if people started reading these other doccuments.

Although i don't think we should get complacent, the Yes camp are fully cashed up and will go hard spreading BS once the date is announced I mean FFS they even pay communities groups up to $15K to spread propaganda.

"Show us the money: Struggling 'yes vote' wins fistful of taxpayer dollars"
https://inqld.com.au/politics/2023/06/26/show-us-the-money-struggling-ye...

indo-dreaming Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 5:02pm

BTW. Ruskin pointed out one aspect of the one page or 26 page debate id missed and not seen mention before but is so obvious.

On the official documents the main page and following 25 pages are actually even labelled with the same document number, number 14, while even all the minutes of different meeting's are separately labeled Docs 1 to 13.

Its crazy how they (Megan & even NIAA) have tried to back track on what they have clearly said and all evidence supported all along, obviously lots at stake politically though for Albo and for voice, luckily it seems barely anyone is buying the backflip and lies.

&t=91s

Jelly Flater Saturday, 12 Aug 2023 at 6:07pm

;)

https://m.

adam12 Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 12:28am

"Torres straight island get x3 (by far more than enough they really only need one max two but thats politics at work there hey)"

Self appointed white 'expert' tells FNP what they really need in place he knows so well he can't even name it correctly.
Pay for a subscription you freeloading nuffy.

basesix Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 12:45am

Gotta say Indo, it's pretty disappointing, and indicative of a particular style of self-unawareness, to say unabashedly in a Swellnet forum that you're not a cheapskate because you subscribe to corpo-streaming you don't use, but you don't subscribe to Swellnet because you can extract what you need without doing so.
Kinda puts a weird slant on your posts in this thread.

Supafreak Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 7:33am

Local and Regional Voices

There would be 35 local Voices representing districts around the country.

Each one will be individually designed and run by the communities they represent.

This is to reflect that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are many and varied.

"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are not an homogenous group where one solution will fit all communities," the report states. National Voice

The National Voice would have 24 members:

Two from each state and territory — 16 all up
Five from remote communities
Two from the Torres Strait
One representing Torres Strait Islanders living on the mainlandhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-15/what-is-the-indigenous-voice-to-p...

indo-dreaming Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 9:29am

ha ha like i said in the other thread its funny that people try to attack me on something like Subscriptions, purely because they dont agree with my views or ideologues and call me a cheap skate or even try to make me out to be a bad person, like i said in the other thread it has nothing to do with money, its just a product i currently dont need, so if i bought it would be more a charity thing.

There will probably be a time when it does becomes useful though and i will subscribe, as im honestly over where i live i just cant handle the winters anymore and the invasion during Covid of Melbourne crew has changed things for the worse its basically become like a far far outer suburb, so i think my next move in maybe another five years or so will be back up the coast to somewhere between Forster to Ballina, somewhere a little off the radar and then there will be a use for a forecast as im not as good with that ocean and those types of swells.

I mean am i also a cheap skate because i watch Avi's videos, but never give him money?

I try avoiding blowing my own trumpet by i highly doubt you guys have invested the unpaid time i have and risked the money i have in changing the lifes of people the way i have in developed countries(indo), and im talking whole generations of families, yeah sure in time ive recovered the money, but i took risk where there was not much reward for me and could have easily gone wrong and i could have easily structured things in the way most westerners do and partner up provide the money and give them a cut of the profit while i take the majority of profit, as bad as my english grammar is i even taught my mate english id sit down and teach him a few words every arvo for months.

Yeah anyway like i said in the other thread, i dont care about what people think that dont know me, it the people that know me and friend's and family who matter.

indo-dreaming Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 9:35am

Supafreak wrote:
Local and Regional Voices

There would be 35 local Voices representing districts around the country.

Each one will be individually designed and run by the communities they represent.

This is to reflect that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are many and varied.

"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are not an homogenous group where one solution will fit all communities," the report states. National Voice

The National Voice would have 24 members:

Two from each state and territory — 16 all up
Five from remote communities
Two from the Torres Strait
One representing Torres Strait Islanders living on the mainlandhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-15/what-is-the-indigenous-voice-to-p...

If you were going to set up an advisory body to provide a voice to people who really need it or close the gap and you only had so many spots at the table,(the national table by far being the most powerful) basic common sense dictates you would focus on the areas with the largest problems and work backwards from there not the other way around.

But if it was more about power and money, as almost all things in life are, you would structure it exactly as it is.

Anyway anyone who actually takes the time to actually read the other 25 pages, and even just skim through the USFTH report, and the minute's from meetings will clearly see the bigger picture, it just takes a little effort to dig up and time to read. (i did provide all the official links on the other page)

southernraw Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 9:44am

Low Info wrote ' like i said in the other thread it has nothing to do with money, its just a product i currently dont need'
I don't need Swellnet, Swellnet needs me.
Hey aren't you that guy from Swellnet?

indo-dreaming Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 9:55am

Okay keep playing the man instead of the ball, so much fun hey.

Supafreak Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 10:06am

@indo , have you thought about offering your services to the voice to parliament , you could educate everyone on what they need to be doing , seeing as they have it backwards. I don’t know if they will take any notice though, unlike wazza & JP the yes party is just in it for the money .

Supafreak Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 10:20am

indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
Local and Regional Voices

There would be 35 local Voices representing districts around the country.

Each one will be individually designed and run by the communities they represent.

This is to reflect that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities are many and varied.

"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are not an homogenous group where one solution will fit all communities," the report states. National Voice

The National Voice would have 24 members:

Two from each state and territory — 16 all up
Five from remote communities
Two from the Torres Strait
One representing Torres Strait Islanders living on the mainlandhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-15/what-is-the-indigenous-voice-to-p...

If you were going to set up an advisory body to provide a voice to people who really need it or close the gap and you only had so many spots at the table,(the national table by far being the most powerful) basic common sense dictates you would focus on the areas with the largest problems and work backwards from there not the other way around.

But if it was more about power and money, as almost all things in life are, you would structure it exactly as it is.

Anyway anyone who actually takes the time to actually read the other 25 pages, and even just skim through the USFTH report, and the minute's from meetings will clearly see the bigger picture, it just takes a little effort to dig up and time to read. (i did provide all the official links on the other page)

@indo up until last week you didn’t even know there was a regional division for the voice , you complained that 24 reps for 250 groups didn’t add up . For someone that is so well informed this was pretty basic information that has been freely available. Found anything lately in the “ secret government documents “ ?

Supafreak Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 10:41am

https://x.com/tiny_watermelon/status/1690498675699863553?s=46&t=5RczxwAf.... @indo , did you post this sky news story ?

adam12 Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 11:41am

If you are not from Torres Strait Island, never been to Torres Strait Island, don't know anyone from Torres Strait Island and can't even name Torres Strait Island correctly what makes you think you know what people from Torres Strait Island "really need"?
Answer that.
"so if i bought it would be more a charity thing."
No, it would be paying for something you use every fucking day.
Something you use to attack FNP with shit like " more about power and money".
Something that is a business that required an investment to create a space for commentary that you constantly use but don't see a "need" to support financially. Pay to play or piss off is how I look at it.
"I mean am i also a cheap skate because i watch Avi's videos, but never give him money?"
Do you post endlessly on Avi's website? Like daily voluminous piles of bullshit trying to dominate the debate? Do you post clips from Sky and Pauline Hanson and Real Rukshan on Avi's website?
Knowing what Avi is about, i.e. making money, he runs a business, he wouldn't put up with a freeloader taking over the discussion like you try to do here unless you paid him for it, and paid plenty.

"If you were going to set up an advisory body to provide a voice to people who really need it or close the gap and you only had so many spots at the table,(the national table by far being the most powerful) basic common sense dictates you would focus on the areas with the largest problems and work backwards from there not the other way around."
You really have no idea what FNP need or want. It's their Voice, not yours. It's their decision how the Voice is structured. They have spent years deciding what they need and want, years of meetings and discussions to arrive at the Uluru Statement. It's their statement of what they want and how it should be structured. Then along you come, a white 'conservative' dullard with your twisted "common sense" and you know better?
Ignorant, arrogant and with grade four English skills. You say you don't like to "blow your own trumpet", well I disagree strongly with that. To me that's all you fucking do here, blow your trumpet, and it's a shit song you play. The guests at your surf camp who you say give you compliments on your 'work' here I would file under "things that never happened" because I'm sure if they existed they would be coming on SN to support you and your twisted racist agenda but I've never seen one, not one. If you are out there and you exist, please comment in his favour and prove he isn't just blowing that trumpet up his own arse again.
"Playing the man and not the ball."
You bring that on yourself mate.
Do you ever wonder why?

southernraw Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 12:33pm

Thats a rapturous standing ovation from me Adam12.
Word for word, nailed it.

Jelly Flater Sunday, 13 Aug 2023 at 1:10pm

https://m.

first
previous
…
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
…
next
last

The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Quick Links

About

User