2022 Election
soggydog wrote:fitzroy-21 wrote:Roadkill "fitzroy, Are sparkies worth more than pharmacists? nurses?..both jobs that can kill the customer if they do the wrong thing."
It's all relative RK.
Your average house basher working a 40hr week most probably won't earn as much, whereas those working bigger hours, on call etc probably will.
Those in the mining industry working 12-14hours a day, away from their families, in dirty, dangerous conditions most likely will too.
How long do pharmacists or nurses train to become qualified? Do they have to constantly requalify/prove their intimate knowledge of their chosen profession and pay licencing renewal fees?EDT;Sorry fitzy this one is for Roaddill
OK cancer boy, the difference is, are tradies working for a flat rate compared to the health professionals who maybe on wages. How many nurses have to take ALL of the equipment they need to perform the tasks assigned to complete the job, or is that provided by the employer. Workers comp. liability insurance.
Roadkill you have zero fucking clues.
Tough keyboard warrior comes from n…proving himself a snowflake
Adam Bandt….pffft.
Fire in his belly as his vision includes open borders which pushes affordable housing and a viable welfare / health out of reach of everyone.
Go Adam!
stunet wrote:I'm gonna give a big "fuck yeah!" to Adam Bandt and that answer he gave in the video above.
Get some fire in your guts, mate.
Totally agree. I usually dislike his rhetoric but he was brilliant on this occasion.
Slomo at press conference earlier saying “ good manners cost nothing “ 
hosting photos
Prolly turn my back on that pink jacket too.
Albo..running from questions from the press. Sook. Scomo has the balls to take questions.
I hope he keeps this ..up..it just proves he has the smallest set of balls in politics.
That pic shows you can get a scolding from Tanya while playing battleships with josh.
stunet wrote:"back then i probably didnt even know the meaning of the word but really i was a true socialist,"
If that's your definition then you still don't know the meaning of the word now.
Socialism covers a whole range of political, social, and economic ideas, my belief system at the time definitely fell into a socialism/communist mindset.
@thermalben
Yes that's honestly how i felt at the time, i just didn't know what i wanted to do with my life, i just knew i didn't want some crappy job i didn't like even it it meant more money, all i wanted to do was surf and party when i could afford too, i remember my attitude and justification was a certain percentage of people are always going to unemployed and on the dole, so why cant i just get my payment and those on the dole that really want jobs can have them and i always use to say one day i will work and pay tax, so i was getting my share now of that tax money and i will one day pay it back, like a loan. (which i guess now is kind of true been paying it back for decades now)
My mindset only really began to change when my friends started getting jobs and i had less people to hang out with during the day and they then had more money to do things and buy things, also i got some cash work and saved up and went to Indo and once i returned i had more motivation or need for money to get back.
BTW. this is early 90s so unemployment was pretty high, i remembering moving from Phillip Island to the Goldie and going in to the Palm beach dole office and the lady being a real bitch with lots of attitude going there is no chance of you moving here the unemployment rate here is high (because you could only move to a place where rate was better) and then she looked on her system and was like argh okay fill out these forms...as where id come from was like twice as high.
PS. Im sure anyone on the dole back then could relate to this, depending on conditions dole day meant either an early session over at South Straddie and then onto Southport Centrelink or if swell a session at Burleigh or the Alley and onto Palm beach Centrelink and then maybe treat yourself to second hand CD from Cash Converters, all a highlight of the week, the blow $$$ at the Edge or Party on Thursday nights with $1 spirit's :P
Some graphs for those inclined. Tax v gdp, interest rates and unemployment, over the past 40 years or so.
"Socialism covers a whole range of political, social, and economic ideas, my belief system at the time definitely fell into a socialism/communist mindset."
No it didn't. You were a dole bludger. No judgement, many young people need time to figure out their lives, but come on, to now damn that time as 'my socialist years' and that you've now seen the error of your ways is patently ridiculous.
You're just making it more clear you don't know a thing about what you say.
Ha ha whatever everyone is entitled to their opinion, agree to disagree, i was a classic socialist without even knowing it.
The economic model that brought Australia post-war success, that's currently in place across northern Europe providing stability, prosperity, and multiple 'happiest country' awards, is proven bullshit cos an Aussie surfer got off the dole.
Can't believe everyone else overlooked it.
andy-mac wrote:You really have no idea what Socialism is and how it works...
┐( ∵ )┌
It doesn't work, it only fails time after time.
Like Thatcher classically said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
It's basically a ponzi scheme.
Said Thatcher as she sent in the Police to beat up the picketing miners, working people trying to keep their families and communities alive. BTW Indo, interest rates hit 15+% under her watch and her Conservative successor. No sense of loss when she was booted out.
And just to even the score today, Scomo runs away from the press and didn’t answer questions?
indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:You really have no idea what Socialism is and how it works...
┐( ∵ )┌It doesn't work, it only fails time after time.
Like Thatcher classically said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
It's basically a ponzi scheme.
NFI.... Tell that to Norway...
soggydog wrote:If your wife wasn’t chasing the “Free Money” would there be a gap in your monthly household budget that would need to be filled?
Just depends the things i was thinking about are more one off type things that often people dont know about that you often need to do some some research to find, if there wasn't a subsidy for childcare then yes, it would be hard or to put a kid in childcare and work as it would eat into what you earn quite a bit..
But we would also just adapt and not use childcare, our childcare about Oct last year had some plumbing issues that caused flooding of the centre, that then resulted in mould, so the whole centre had to be gutted so it only just opened again two weeks ago or so, so for the period we had to adapt as no childcare, so i know we can and could do without it..
But i do understand most people dont have that luxury of work flexibility or a family member to help out etc.
BTW. im not against safety nets and financial help for people who need it at all, im not complaining, i just kind of roll my eyes when people don't appreciate the current system and always want or expect more as i personally think its quite a generous fair system.
My mother owns her own house and had a new deck (very large) installed joining two glass doors with a passage way, i was off at home from TAFE for lunch and he nicely asked me to help him so i did, after a while i skated back to TAFE which was 15 minutes walk away.
Anyway i got the jist this guy was a cool bloke and very charismaticnd friendly and worked hard at first.
However whenever i was at home after work or home for lunch from TAFE he got the shits i wasnt helping him. Im an electrical apprentice at this stage not a chippy or builder.
Anyway he finished the job then a year later my mum got him to give a quote of turning the carport (with open windows without glass) into a garage. It was a lot of work and he gave the quote then came back a few weeks later saying it was his 50th coming up can my mum pay him in advance.
My mum liked the guy and so did i but guess what?
He never came back and changed his number. My mum held that info from me for ten years as she knew i would kill him.
But i missed a lot of posts there that werent relevent to my post so i'll ask what do you think of resource based economy?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/apr/12/we-have-schroding...
Nothing to see here, move along ..
Is it time for SN to bite the bullet and put @info on staff as Editor-in-Chief of his own "Ask Aunty Info" column. Surely it must as there isn't a topic he isn't an expert in.
View it as a tongue in cheek nod to the early Tracks years Ask Aunty Gwendolyn column.
Just re-posting this as it will probably get bypassed being the last post on yesterdays paper-
My mother owns her own house and had a new deck (very large) installed joining two glass doors with a passage way, i was off at home from TAFE for lunch and he nicely asked me to help him so i did, after a while i skated back to TAFE which was 15 minutes walk away.
Anyway i got the jist this guy was a cool bloke and very charismaticnd friendly and worked hard at first.
However whenever i was at home after work or home for lunch from TAFE he got the shits i wasnt helping him. Im an electrical apprentice at this stage not a chippy or builder.
Anyway he finished the job then a year later my mum got him to give a quote of turning the carport (with open windows without glass) into a garage. It was a lot of work and he gave the quote then came back a few weeks later saying it was his 50th coming up can my mum pay him in advance.
My mum liked the guy and so did i but guess what?
He never came back and changed his number. My mum held that info from me for ten years as she knew i would kill him.
andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:You really have no idea what Socialism is and how it works...
┐( ∵ )┌It doesn't work, it only fails time after time.
Like Thatcher classically said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
It's basically a ponzi scheme.
NFI.... Tell that to Norway...
Ha ha god how predictable and you were saying i don't understand Socialism?
Norway has a capitalist based economy with free markets 95% of business is privately owned, a generous welfare system or the state owning some business involved in natural resources doesn't make it a socialist country.
I mean seriously next you are going to tell me Indonesia is a socialist country because the Indonesian government owns over 51% of Freeport one of the biggest gold & copper mine's in the world and Pertamina a big state owned oil and gas company, and the list of state owned companies is a long one, too much to list here but includes four big banks(Mandiri, BNI, BRI, BTN), PLN the electricity company/system and off course Garuda.
There isn't many true socialist countries around because they don't tend to last places like Cuba, Laos, Vietnam are the closest today, not exactly countries to aspire too.
indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:You really have no idea what Socialism is and how it works...
┐( ∵ )┌It doesn't work, it only fails time after time.
Like Thatcher classically said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
It's basically a ponzi scheme.
NFI.... Tell that to Norway...
Ha ha god how predictable and you were saying i don't understand Socialism?
Norway has a capitalist based economy with free markets 95% of business is privately owned, a generous welfare system or the state owning some business involved in natural resources doesn't make it a socialist country.
I mean seriously next you are going to tell me Indonesia is a socialist country because the Indonesian government owns over 51% of Freeport one of the biggest gold & copper mine's in the world and Pertamina a big state owned oil and gas company, and the list of state owned companies is a long one, too much to list here but includes four big banks(Mandiri, BNI, BRI, BTN), PLN the electricity company/system and off course Garuda.
There isn't many true socialist countries around because they don't tend to last places like Cuba, Laos, Vietnam are the closest today, not exactly countries to aspire too.
Norway =Socialist democracy ( look it up ffs)
Optimist wrote:That pic shows you can get a scolding from Tanya while playing battleships with josh.
Any nuclear subs in that game ?
Never had a real job Albo. Scary stuff. NZ is suffering now with never had a real job Jacinda.
https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/albanese-hasnt-really-...
groundswell wrote:But i missed a lot of posts there that werent relevent to my post so i'll ask what do you think of resource based economy?
Not keen on it personally. Sounds too utopian for me + limited research has been done on the concept. However, I would like to see more research and experiments carried out, this might change my mind.
There's one paper I found from the University of Wollongong, I would need to read it to get more familiar with the idea, link below.
https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1228&context=buspapers
soggydog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:You really have no idea what Socialism is and how it works...
┐( ∵ )┌It doesn't work, it only fails time after time.
Like Thatcher classically said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
It's basically a ponzi scheme.
NFI.... Tell that to Norway...
Ha ha god how predictable and you were saying i don't understand Socialism?
Norway has a capitalist based economy with free markets 95% of business is privately owned, a generous welfare system or the state owning some business involved in natural resources doesn't make it a socialist country.
I mean seriously next you are going to tell me Indonesia is a socialist country because the Indonesian government owns over 51% of Freeport one of the biggest gold & copper mine's in the world and Pertamina a big state owned oil and gas company, and the list of state owned companies is a long one, too much to list here but includes four big banks(Mandiri, BNI, BRI, BTN), PLN the electricity company/system and off course Garuda.
There isn't many true socialist countries around because they don't tend to last places like Cuba, Laos, Vietnam are the closest today, not exactly countries to aspire too.
Norway =Socialist democracy ( look it up ffs)
Ha ha i think you mean cuddly capitalism (FFS google it)
Jeez, not sure if I want to get involved in this socialism discussion. It's ridiculous to call Norway a socialist state. There are some elements of that for sure but overall, the system is a mixed economy, driven by free markets and private asset ownership, combined with state ownership in strategic industries like oil. These public companies openly participate in free markets domestically and internationally. Entrepreneurship is really strong and homeownership really high (~80%).
Having more welfare doesn't make one directly a socialist state. If Norway is what people think socialism is then bring it on. I have no problems with that. A good example of this is what was discussed today with Greens proposing to include dental under Medicare and funding it through additional taxation on billionaires. To me, this is not socialism. At fundamental level socialism is nationalising those billionaires' assets and forbidding them to exist under private ownership. That's not what anyone is proposing here. Paying more tax on certain things doesn't make the economy a socialist economy. If everyone is free to own assets (houses, shares, patents etc...) and then trade those assets in a free market you are not in a socialist economy. Taxing those transactions higher than average and distributing them through a strong welfare system might create a welfare state (quality depends on implementation) but certainly not a socialist state.
indo-dreaming wrote:soggydog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:andy-mac wrote:You really have no idea what Socialism is and how it works...
┐( ∵ )┌It doesn't work, it only fails time after time.
Like Thatcher classically said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
It's basically a ponzi scheme.
NFI.... Tell that to Norway...
Ha ha god how predictable and you were saying i don't understand Socialism?
Norway has a capitalist based economy with free markets 95% of business is privately owned, a generous welfare system or the state owning some business involved in natural resources doesn't make it a socialist country.
I mean seriously next you are going to tell me Indonesia is a socialist country because the Indonesian government owns over 51% of Freeport one of the biggest gold & copper mine's in the world and Pertamina a big state owned oil and gas company, and the list of state owned companies is a long one, too much to list here but includes four big banks(Mandiri, BNI, BRI, BTN), PLN the electricity company/system and off course Garuda.
There isn't many true socialist countries around because they don't tend to last places like Cuba, Laos, Vietnam are the closest today, not exactly countries to aspire too.
Norway =Socialist democracy ( look it up ffs)
Ha ha i think you mean cuddly capitalism (FFS google it)
Oh dear.....
This is an example of why Scomo is PM...
(｡•́︿•̀｡)
It's a national disgrace that there is probably millions of Australians who work full time that cannot afford to look after their teeth.
This is human dignity we are talking about.
Dog eat dog or the brotherhood of man?
I know which way I'm leaning.
flollo wrote:Jeez, not sure if I want to get involved in this socialism discussion. It's ridiculous to call Norway a socialist state. There are some elements of that for sure but overall, the system is a mixed economy, driven by free markets and private asset ownership, combined with state ownership in strategic industries like oil. These public companies openly participate in free markets domestically and internationally. Entrepreneurship is really strong and homeownership really high (~80%).
Having more welfare doesn't make one directly a socialist state. If Norway is what people think socialism is then bring it on. I have no problems with that. A good example of this is what was discussed today with Greens proposing to include dental under Medicare and funding it through additional taxation on billionaires. To me, this is not socialism. At fundamental level socialism is nationalising those billionaires' assets and forbidding them to exist under private ownership. That's not what anyone is proposing here. Paying more tax on certain things doesn't make the economy a socialist economy. If everyone is free to own assets (houses, shares, patents etc...) and then trade those assets in a free market you are not in a socialist economy. Taxing those transactions higher than average and distributing them through a strong welfare system might create a welfare state (quality depends on implementation) but certainly not a socialist state.
OK, I’ve heard that Norway and Scandinavian countries described as socialist democracy operating in a capitalist free market economy.
I would describe it as a raft of strong socialist,as opposed to communist, policies with equal access to services regardless of income or social status that benefit the wider community. Australia is a socialist democracy operating in a capitalist economy. We are a democracy, we have social services and socialist policies but we operate in a capitalist economy.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
flollo wrote:Jeez, not sure if I want to get involved in this socialism discussion. It's ridiculous to call Norway a socialist state. There are some elements of that for sure but overall, the system is a mixed economy, driven by free markets and private asset ownership, combined with state ownership in strategic industries like oil. These public companies openly participate in free markets domestically and internationally. Entrepreneurship is really strong and homeownership really high (~80%).
Having more welfare doesn't make one directly a socialist state. If Norway is what people think socialism is then bring it on. I have no problems with that. A good example of this is what was discussed today with Greens proposing to include dental under Medicare and funding it through additional taxation on billionaires. To me, this is not socialism. At fundamental level socialism is nationalising those billionaires' assets and forbidding them to exist under private ownership. That's not what anyone is proposing here. Paying more tax on certain things doesn't make the economy a socialist economy. If everyone is free to own assets (houses, shares, patents etc...) and then trade those assets in a free market you are not in a socialist economy. Taxing those transactions higher than average and distributing them through a strong welfare system might create a welfare state (quality depends on implementation) but certainly not a socialist state.
These terms (socialist, capitalist) get thrown around, there is no purely capitalist state also... Point being that the right wing in Australia, US etc demonise Socialism as some kind of boogeyman. Reality is that Australia already has public education, public health which are socialist ideas (all should be given more funding IMHO). The fact is that society will generally run better if it embraces both ideas, Norway being a less than perfect example. Some businesses/services should be run for profit, no argument from me, but others should be government run (socialist) such as health, education, public service, aged care.
Progressive democratic socialist society such as the Scandinavian model seem to win across the board as far as economic and social outcomes go.
Why does Australia not use these countries for inspiration rather than neo-liberal model from USA?
Howard wasted our mining boom with tax cuts setting up a structural deficit, where would we be if we had national sovereign wealth fund set up such as Norway??
Ah well .... How good is Scomo...
How good is scomo ? He’s a 
Perhaps Morro is a bit of a top gun. He calls China out on the virus….China cracks a shit…check… When he sees China sneaking around our coasts he does a sub deal with the US and Britain so that they have free reign patrolling our waters for us till we get a couple ourselves..China cracks a shit again……checkmate again….and now when China bribes the Solomon leaders for a military base on our doorstep, Morro orders hypersonic missiles…China cracks a shit again…checkmate again as their ships would be hardly out of port when a missile reached them….it’s funny to watch really …all the positioning by China and then Morrison’s counters…..I don’t think the other parties are ballsy enough to keep China in check personally….but I may be wrong….I hope none of our defences are somehow connected to the net as China now has a quantum and that would be a real issue eventually.
Three successful Chinese checkmates from Scott Morrison?
Wow.
Supafreak wrote:How good is scomo ? He’s a
Reduced to being, just a meme poster, sf. I guess that is all you have to contribute.
Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:How good is scomo ? He’s a
Reduced to being, just a meme poster, sf. I guess that is all you have to contribute.
Starting to think you have a crush on me roaddill with all this attention you keep paying me .Good thing ya got on early with sports bet , the odds have dropped.
Optimist wrote:Perhaps Morro is a bit of a top gun. He calls China out on the virus….China cracks a shit…check… When he sees China sneaking around our coasts he does a sub deal with the US and Britain so that they have free reign patrolling our waters for us till we get a couple ourselves..China cracks a shit again……checkmate again….and now when China bribes the Solomon leaders for a military base on our doorstep, Morro orders hypersonic missiles…China cracks a shit again…checkmate again as their ships would be hardly out of port when a missile reached them….it’s funny to watch really …all the positioning by China and then Morrison’s counters…..I don’t think the other parties are ballsy enough to keep China in check personally….but I may be wrong….I hope none of our defences are somehow connected to the net as China now has a quantum and that would be a real issue eventually.
Yeah rightio, China must be shitting themselves..... Those subs we are due to get in 2050 or thereabouts are a game changer!!
Supafreak wrote:Roadkill wrote:Supafreak wrote:How good is scomo ? He’s a
Reduced to being, just a meme poster, sf. I guess that is all you have to contribute.
Starting to think you have a crush on me roaddill with all this attention you keep paying me .Good thing ya got on early with sports bet , the odds have dropped.
nah, I just laugh at you.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/apr/13/scott-morrison-ef...
Geez wonder why the LNP would not wish to have a strong ICAC???
It it pretty concerning seeing all the sky news headlines peddled out in this thread. If you people actually believe the LNP are sound economic managers we are well and truly fucked. Get rid of this moron.
Optimist wrote:Perhaps Morro is a bit of a top gun. He calls China out on the virus….China cracks a shit…check… When he sees China sneaking around our coasts he does a sub deal with the US and Britain so that they have free reign patrolling our waters for us till we get a couple ourselves..China cracks a shit again……checkmate again….and now when China bribes the Solomon leaders for a military base on our doorstep, Morro orders hypersonic missiles…China cracks a shit again…checkmate again as their ships would be hardly out of port when a missile reached them….it’s funny to watch really …all the positioning by China and then Morrison’s counters…..I don’t think the other parties are ballsy enough to keep China in check personally….but I may be wrong….I hope none of our defences are somehow connected to the net as China now has a quantum and that would be a real issue eventually.
and Andrew's belt and road initiave was halted by the Morrisom Govt.
andy-mac wrote:Optimist wrote:Perhaps Morro is a bit of a top gun. He calls China out on the virus….China cracks a shit…check… When he sees China sneaking around our coasts he does a sub deal with the US and Britain so that they have free reign patrolling our waters for us till we get a couple ourselves..China cracks a shit again……checkmate again….and now when China bribes the Solomon leaders for a military base on our doorstep, Morro orders hypersonic missiles…China cracks a shit again…checkmate again as their ships would be hardly out of port when a missile reached them….it’s funny to watch really …all the positioning by China and then Morrison’s counters…..I don’t think the other parties are ballsy enough to keep China in check personally….but I may be wrong….I hope none of our defences are somehow connected to the net as China now has a quantum and that would be a real issue eventually.
Yeah rightio, China must be shitting themselves..... Those subs we are due to get in 2050 or thereabouts are a game changer!!
What would you do if you were in charge, andy?
Scot Morrison ditches 2019 election promise for federal icac, saying that the draft as presented without amendments is the only version he will support. The same one Labor won’t support.
Dunno why a person would vote for either of the two majors.
You didn’t read it properly… the US and Britain are patrolling our waters now under the deal…that’s the bit china hates… we get our own subs later…
flollo wrote:Jeez, not sure if I want to get involved in this socialism discussion. It's ridiculous to call Norway a socialist state. There are some elements of that for sure but overall, the system is a mixed economy, driven by free markets and private asset ownership, combined with state ownership in strategic industries like oil. These public companies openly participate in free markets domestically and internationally. Entrepreneurship is really strong and homeownership really high (~80%).
Having more welfare doesn't make one directly a socialist state. If Norway is what people think socialism is then bring it on. I have no problems with that. A good example of this is what was discussed today with Greens proposing to include dental under Medicare and funding it through additional taxation on billionaires. To me, this is not socialism. At fundamental level socialism is nationalising those billionaires' assets and forbidding them to exist under private ownership. That's not what anyone is proposing here. Paying more tax on certain things doesn't make the economy a socialist economy. If everyone is free to own assets (houses, shares, patents etc...) and then trade those assets in a free market you are not in a socialist economy. Taxing those transactions higher than average and distributing them through a strong welfare system might create a welfare state (quality depends on implementation) but certainly not a socialist state.
When moderate policies such as equitable tax redistribution or increasing public education spending get howled down as "socialist" then I think it's fair to call Norway the same.
Just using the modern definition, sire.
Slightly OT:
The IPA - conservative think tank not beer - are on a campaign to celebrate Australian values, which I think is a grand thing.
The project was launched by Lachlan Murdoch, whose father renounced Australian citizenship while young Lachie flies the colours of a true globalist, and has recently had Tony Abbott damning our education system for not talking more about our achievements. Abbott, you'll recall, gave a knighthood to Prince Phillip and is an avowed monarchist ("I hope an Australian republic never happens") cos he thinks Australia can't have its own head of state.
It's enough to drive you to drink.
.