The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Sorry, I missed your earlier reply indo
“voice is only one aspect of a much bigger activist picture.”
No doubt that’s correct, but it is up to Parliament to agree to implement what is suggested, or not, and then if something is implemented, it can be revoked if there is a change of heart. Nothing can be done unless Parliament agrees to it
“even if this was just about an advisory body it still wouldn't be enough.”
It is only an advisory body, it says so in the wording of the question
In order to progress in the same correct direction that humanity has gone over the past say 100yrs, the correct step to take here is to remove any remaining mention of race in the constitution, not add more.
This whole The Voice scenario is a mistake no matter what angle it’s view from.
Australia’s progressives should be called regressives. Well they’re all closet socialists, which says it all anyway.
You’re hysterics are laughable. You can’t be taken seriously.
for the voice to suceed it needs majority of population and 4 out of 6 states...correct??
there are 7 states, the n.t. became a state yonks ago so where does their votes (yes and no) end up, bearing in mind they have the highest fnp population in da country.
methinks it will be s.a. as it was pre n.t. statehood, which means a guaranteed win for yes23 in s.a., is this gerrymandering?
can some one explain why n.t. not counted as a state?...canberra is a territory so where do there votes go?
anyone know a govt site that can answer my query, there are 7 states and 1 territory, would imagine canberra votes go to n.s.w. (more gerrymandering?)
https://m.
&pp=ygULYWIgb3JpZ2luYWw%3D hysterical or not...
slicing the constitution up on racial lines is step backwards for a lot of people
Wiradjuri elder “Riverbank Frank” Doolan is a friend of mine. He lives simply on the banks of the Macquarie River on the outskirts of Dubbo. He’s a NO vote and he wants me to report it. “Altering the constitution along racial lines, to me that’s repugnant,” he says. pic.twitter.com/8hRSWZNAcL
— Hugh Riminton (@hughriminton) September 3, 2023
and fliplid...
stop being so reasonable
sameaswas
1997 COAG included NT / ACT to head off NT statehood.
1998 NT Reffo 51.3% Voted [No] to becoming State
March 2020 During Covid Emergency COAG became National Cabinet (Rarely & randomly Meets)
6th June New WA member was left off the Website for 2x NatCab Meetings
As Qldurrz duty... tbb informed & Welcomed new WA Premier prior Bne Nat Cab...
WA Premier was still yet to feature on 23 June + 16 Aug Nat Cab Agendas
Finally! Natcab only just upgraded his status...much after after June / Aug events!
Only took 100 days to get their shit together to notice they had a new guy...well durr!
This is a very good question sameaswas! It's a lot more tricky & involved than many first assume!
It's fair to share... as some tiny territories vote counts twice where Larger Territories once!
Self Governing ACT / NT may protest about tiny Islands having more Vote Power than them!
Will be interesting to see if some make a fuss about that & likely some VIP will rise up online!
Note : It is not Compulsory for Australians o/seas to Vote in Referendum.
O/seas Voting starts 2nd Oct 2023
States usually nominate a Metro Post Code to Tally respective o/seas Votes
Usually to speed up the count (vs) Logging each Vote to each Post Code (Not compulsory)
Considering the Total Tally is the main goal in each state...
Although AEC has allocated 13 days Tally if just one state is close.
In such a case both camps will likely press for each o/seas Vote allocation in any recount!
https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/vote/overseas-voting.html
List of Oz Territories Voting in Voice Reffo > only count toward the whole!
Apart from 2 (*NSW) External Territories (See Below)
https://www.dcceew.gov.au/science-research/australias-biological-resourc...
( ACT Electorate ) Norfolk Is 2,601 + Jervis Bay T 405 + Aust' Antarctic T 60 + Coral Sea Is 4 +
Heard Is & Mc Donald Is + Macquarie Island
( NT Electorate ) Christmas Is 1,938 + Ashmore & Cartier Is + Cocos Keeling I's
(Note) ACT also has *Stations / Land Tenure within NT + (SA *Stations-Only count as Whole)
(*NSW) Lord Howe I's Group 382 + Solitary I's (Voice) Counts twice with NSW State & Oz.
These last 2 NSW Islands may upset NT / ACT voters...Just sayin' someone will suss this!
AEC General Map guide.
To pass, a Referendum needs to achieve what is called a double majority - a majority of ‘yes’ votes nationally as well as a majority of yes votes in at least 4 out of the 6 Australian states. pic.twitter.com/z8HeKmuhYI
— AEC ✏️ (@AusElectoralCom) January 10, 2023
https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/learn/the-count.html#:~:text=On%20pol....
&t=37s
This might confuse some no voters . https://x.com/blakandblack/status/1703236611188888028?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe...
I can’t stop laughing at the look on big tony’s face . https://x.com/news_australian/status/1702477776773947703?s=46&t=5RczxwAf... anyone want to caption the photo ?
gsco, Alan Jones is doing up the roster for next years CPAC, give him a call, with your song sheet you should get the gig
cheers sypkan I’ll try and do better
will do Fliplid, sounds like a blast!
Although, I might just continue on my "van life" surf trip around Aus though...
on lobby groups, the correct step to take in order to actually progress forwards is to regulate and limit their influence, not legally enshrine in the constitution and provide with public funding a permanent lobby group, particularly one based on race.
Let's all get on board the train back to the dark ages!
ALP: Australia's closet socialist regressive party.
I think we’re mostly on the same page. Hope you score on the surf trip….just make sure you stick to those privately owned toll roads
All power to LNP the benevolent free marketeers
gsco wrote:will do Fliplid, sounds like a blast!
Although, I might just continue on my "van life" surf trip around Aus though...
on lobby groups, the correct step to take in order to actually progress forwards is to regulate and limit their influence, not legally enshrine in the constitution and provide with public funding a permanent lobby group, particularly one based on race.
Let's all get on board the train back to the dark ages!
ALP: Australia's closet socialist regressive party.
Biggest disparity in wealth in our country's history, funding for essential services drying up, unaffordable housing for a big percentage of population, infrastructure not up to first world standard, and you're saying we are headed towards socialism ???
ALP socialist? Ya dreaming.
Supafreak wrote:I can’t stop laughing at the look on big tony’s face . https://x.com/news_australian/status/1702477776773947703?s=46&t=5RczxwAf... anyone want to caption the photo ?
“Reconciliation“
As she says: “I can’t keep wallowing in the past, I put my differences behind (me).”
"Biggest disparity in wealth in our country's history, funding for essential services drying up, unaffordable housing for a big percentage of population, infrastructure not up to first world standard, and you're saying we are headed towards socialism ???
ALP socialist? Ya dreaming."
I dont think we're heading towards socialism
but when you have a ruling class of labor leaders quite clearly enjoying the spoils of the last few decades of the selling off of public infrastruture
and an activist class of questionable charactrrs as 'consultants' on 250k+ salaries that are quite clearly motivated by... well... er... socialism, and even communism...
it's hard to hold one's nose whilst the dire situation you describe just reeks more and more of a system and party that has lost its way...
sypkan wrote:"Biggest disparity in wealth in our country's history, funding for essential services drying up, unaffordable housing for a big percentage of population, infrastructure not up to first world standard, and you're saying we are headed towards socialism ???
ALP socialist? Ya dreaming."I dont think we're heading towards socialism
but when you have a ruling class of labor leaders quite clearly enjoying the spoils of the last few decades of the selling off of public infrastruture
and an activist class of questionable charactrrs as 'consultants' on 250k+ salaries that are quite clearly motivated by... well... er... socialism, and even communism...
it's hard to hold one's nose whilst the dire situation you describe just reeks more and more of a system and party that has lost its way...
Kind of agree with ya last paragraph....
Guess every generation since before the Vedas were written have bitched about politics, but with what we have going on in Australia, the UK and USA, reckon the ""West"" is not looking too healthy.
Don't think it's because of woke elite socialists though....
Vote [NO] Showbag
Ya get the original gutsy short lived [L] Reffo Boycott +
Ya get 1 mandated we already Voted [NO] for you Ballot Paper +
A new slightly Bruised & Battered [L] Voice Reffo (Comes with it's own Popup Boycott)+
You Get One Constitutional Recognition (Nervously Ask Jacinta's Eyebrows first) +
Complete with yer very own Voice Legislation (Cough!) Check with Jacinta's Magnates +
A Bonus Treaty (In yer Dream Time) +
A Mandatory bigger thingy to satisfy Lidia's Ego +
A bigger set of Balls for Pauline to Rip Off.
Congratulations on yer [NO] Initiation.
May or not contain any of the aforementioned 'Non' core promises
Written, spoken & authorized by Jacinta's Eyebrows on behalf of Oz Mining Magnates.
sypkan wrote:it's hard to hold one's nose whilst the dire situation you describe just reeks more and more of a system and party that has lost its way...
Karen Andrews featured recently on the ABC's "Kitchen Cabinet".
She stated she was proud of the LNP's achievements and return to core values.
I struggled with that comment for a moment, but then one word encapsulating that comment came to mind.
Robodebt.
And who can forget Joe and Matthias chomping on Havana Cigars, while discussing the "lifters and leaners" in our society.
And by the way, what was that job Joe was given in the USA??
Hockey : US Translation!
Da Prez : "The Art of the Dumb Deal!"
truebluebasher wrote:sameaswas
1997 COAG included NT / ACT to head off NT statehood.
1998 NT Reffo 51.3% Voted [No] to becoming State
March 2020 During Covid Emergency COAG became National Cabinet (Rarely & randomly Meets)
6th June New WA member was left off the Website for 2x NatCab Meetings
As Qldurrz duty... tbb informed & Welcomed new WA Premier prior Bne Nat Cab...
WA Premier was still yet to feature on 23 June + 16 Aug Nat Cab Agendas
Finally! Natcab only just upgraded his status...much after after June / Aug events!
Only took 100 days to get their shit together to notice they had a new guy...well durr!This is a very good question sameaswas! It's a lot more tricky & involved than many first assume!
It's fair to share... as some tiny territories vote counts twice where Larger Territories once!
Self Governing ACT / NT may protest about tiny Islands having more Vote Power than them!
Will be interesting to see if some make a fuss about that & likely some VIP will rise up online!Note : It is not Compulsory for Australians o/seas to Vote in Referendum.
O/seas Voting starts 2nd Oct 2023
States usually nominate a Metro Post Code to Tally respective o/seas Votes
Usually to speed up the count (vs) Logging each Vote to each Post Code (Not compulsory)
Considering the Total Tally is the main goal in each state...
Although AEC has allocated 13 days Tally if just one state is close.
In such a case both camps will likely press for each o/seas Vote allocation in any recount!
https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/vote/overseas-voting.htmlList of Oz Territories Voting in Voice Reffo > only count toward the whole!
Apart from 2 (*NSW) External Territories (See Below)
https://www.dcceew.gov.au/science-research/australias-biological-resourc...( ACT Electorate ) Norfolk Is 2,601 + Jervis Bay T 405 + Aust' Antarctic T 60 + Coral Sea Is 4 +
Heard Is & Mc Donald Is + Macquarie Island( NT Electorate ) Christmas Is 1,938 + Ashmore & Cartier Is + Cocos Keeling I's
(Note) ACT also has *Stations / Land Tenure within NT + (SA *Stations-Only count as Whole)
(*NSW) Lord Howe I's Group 382 + Solitary I's (Voice) Counts twice with NSW State & Oz.
These last 2 NSW Islands may upset NT / ACT voters...Just sayin' someone will suss this!
AEC General Map guide.
https://twitter.com/AusElectoralCom/status/1612624954033573888
https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/learn/the-count.html#:~:text=On%20pol....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKlOIRJVEJ4&t=37s
cheers tbb, thanks for looking it up for me.
reckon it's wrong that n.t. not counted as state and votes in n.t. and canberra are counted in national tally...imo.
"...but with what we have going on in Australia, the UK and USA, reckon the ""West"" is not looking too healthy.
Don't think it's because of woke elite socialists though...."
nah, more their clueless SM activist offspring that feel they have nothing to lose...
despite being some of the richest people on the planet
and, some silly, old enough to know better, redistributionaries, that cannot wait for the collapse...
whilst having nothing to offer, beyond some fetishes and feet washing
inequality is the real problem, and the mask of civility is slipping, as vj pointed out
focussing on, often well to do, 'oppressed' minorities, whilst rome burns is not the answer to anything
unless rome burning is your goal...
sameaswas is welcome...all in this together.
Don't matter if ya vote or not...cost is $450m & rising.
Don't hurt to tilt the territorial imbalance just a little!
swellnet's territorial inquisition executes a bureaucratic red tape parade.
High Court rules equal Vote power to each flea sized Territory & Planet sized states.
Faceless Men summoning True Believers to leap into Erebus & Heard Volcanoes
Albo : "We're Launching a 61man 7x Vaxed Antarctic Territorial Claim for the [YES] Camp!"
Dutto : "Hello! Hello World...I wanna storm a Ship to dump 1,939 [NO] Campers onto Xmas Is!"
[?] Camp : "Hey You...Get off my Cloud!"
Fliplid wrote:Sorry, I missed your earlier reply indo
“voice is only one aspect of a much bigger activist picture.”
No doubt that’s correct, but it is up to Parliament to agree to implement what is suggested, or not, and then if something is implemented, it can be revoked if there is a change of heart. Nothing can be done unless Parliament agrees to it
“even if this was just about an advisory body it still wouldn't be enough.”
It is only an advisory body, it says so in the wording of the question
See the word "about"
Anyone who has read anything to do with the USFTH or listened to any of those involved knows the voice is just the first step in their plans.
Yes they still need to get things pasted in parliament, but why take the risk?, time to nip it in bud now.
The voice has even been described by those involved as the hook
"Indeed, at a meeting with around 150 of his constituents in Broome earlier this year, WA Labor Senator Pat Dodson and other leading members of the indigenous community are said to have described the Voice as precisely that: a ‘hook’. This was in response to members of the indigenous community asking what was ‘in it for them’. ‘The Voice is the hook. We have to get the Voice passed first,’ was the response, ‘in order to implement all the other agenda from the Uluru Statement from the Heart. Sovereignty, treaty, truth-telling and recompense, first, and then reparations. At which point the money will start to flow to every one of you.’ Or words to that effect. The ABC, it should be noted, attended that Broome event but failed to report those assurances."
indo-dreaming wrote:Fliplid wrote:Sorry, I missed your earlier reply indo
“voice is only one aspect of a much bigger activist picture.”
No doubt that’s correct, but it is up to Parliament to agree to implement what is suggested, or not, and then if something is implemented, it can be revoked if there is a change of heart. Nothing can be done unless Parliament agrees to it
“even if this was just about an advisory body it still wouldn't be enough.”
It is only an advisory body, it says so in the wording of the question
See the word "about"
Anyone who has read anything to do with the USFTH or listened to any of those involved knows the voice is just the first step in their plans.
Yes they still need to get things pasted in parliament, but why take the risk?, time to nip it in bud now.
The voice has even been described by those involved as the hook
"Indeed, at a meeting with around 150 of his constituents in Broome earlier this year, WA Labor Senator Pat Dodson and other leading members of the indigenous community are said to have described the Voice as precisely that: a ‘hook’. This was in response to members of the indigenous community asking what was ‘in it for them’. ‘The Voice is the hook. We have to get the Voice passed first,’ was the response, ‘in order to implement all the other agenda from the Uluru Statement from the Heart. Sovereignty, treaty, truth-telling and recompense, first, and then reparations. At which point the money will start to flow to every one of you.’ Or words to that effect. The ABC, it should be noted, attended that Broome event but failed to report those assurances."
Haha... yeah...so what!! That's what u afraid of indo, just like in my very first post..."don't want blackfellas to access any political power" or money u can add to that. Just like yr guru SpudDutto... fear and finances... typical rightwing anxieties. SO hilarious.
Oh..and watch ya backyard indo!!
Hmmm , I can smell “ secret government documents “
Spud will be pulling his hair out …..oh wait a minute …. I can see a little sweetner coming up to pull wazza into line . I’m not sure if they both are trying to out confuse each other or if its just a matter of let’s baffle everybody with BS . Spud changes his mind daily on what he’s going to do and wazza is just trying to cover all bases with job offers . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/warren-mundine-backs-treaty-proce... https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/leading-no-campaigners-at-odd... and where’s JP ? Is she backing her NO teammate ?
Supafreak wrote:Spud will be pulling his hair out …..oh wait a minute …. I can see a little sweetner coming up to pull wazza into line . I’m not sure if they both are trying to out confuse each other or if its just a matter of let’s baffle everybody with BS . Spud changes his mind daily on what he’s going to do and wazza is just trying to cover all bases with job offers . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/warren-mundine-backs-treaty-proce... https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/leading-no-campaigners-at-odd... and where’s JP ? Is she backing her NO teammate ?
Mundine nuance was telling he advocates for empowering Aboriginals and their aspiration while Price plays politics telling her white audience exactly what they want to hear in other words Price treats them as useful idiots.
I don't agree with Mundine on many aspects but do wonder if he chooses to play the conservative side of politics because that's where change really has to come from?
Mundine wants treaties and a date change worst nightmare for a few here I would think.
Supafreak wrote:Spud will be pulling his hair out …..oh wait a minute …. I can see a little sweetner coming up to pull wazza into line . I’m not sure if they both are trying to out confuse each other or if its just a matter of let’s baffle everybody with BS . Spud changes his mind daily on what he’s going to do and wazza is just trying to cover all bases with job offers . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/warren-mundine-backs-treaty-proce... https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/leading-no-campaigners-at-odd... and where’s JP ? Is she backing her NO teammate ?
She's gone to ground after THAT insane comment...damage control
indo-dreaming wrote:Fliplid wrote:Sorry, I missed your earlier reply indo
“voice is only one aspect of a much bigger activist picture.”
No doubt that’s correct, but it is up to Parliament to agree to implement what is suggested, or not, and then if something is implemented, it can be revoked if there is a change of heart. Nothing can be done unless Parliament agrees to it
“even if this was just about an advisory body it still wouldn't be enough.”
It is only an advisory body, it says so in the wording of the question
See the word "about"
Anyone who has read anything to do with the USFTH or listened to any of those involved knows the voice is just the first step in their plans.
Yes they still need to get things pasted in parliament, but why take the risk?, time to nip it in bud now.
The voice has even been described by those involved as the hook
"Indeed, at a meeting with around 150 of his constituents in Broome earlier this year, WA Labor Senator Pat Dodson and other leading members of the indigenous community are said to have described the Voice as precisely that: a ‘hook’. This was in response to members of the indigenous community asking what was ‘in it for them’. ‘The Voice is the hook. We have to get the Voice passed first,’ was the response, ‘in order to implement all the other agenda from the Uluru Statement from the Heart. Sovereignty, treaty, truth-telling and recompense, first, and then reparations. At which point the money will start to flow to every one of you.’ Or words to that effect. The ABC, it should be noted, attended that Broome event but failed to report those assurances."
Proof that you should need to get a licence before you're allowed to comment on the internet.
#lowinfo #howlowcanyougo
Can you spot the difference ? 
. Why do they call it “ Labors “ risky voice ?
Supafreak wrote:Can you spot the difference ?
Find out? How?
Supafreak]Spud will be pulling his hair out …..oh wait a minute …. I can see a little sweetner coming up to pull wazza into line . I’m not sure if they both are trying to out confuse each other or if its just a matter of let’s baffle everybody with BS . Spud changes his mind daily on what he’s going to do and wazza is just trying to cover all bases with job offers . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/warren-mundine-backs-treaty-proce...[quote=Supafreak
wrote:Spud will be pulling his hair out …..oh wait a minute …. I can see a little sweetner coming up to pull wazza into line . I’m not sure if they both are trying to out confuse each other or if its just a matter of let’s baffle everybody with BS . Spud changes his mind daily on what he’s going to do and wazza is just trying to cover all bases with job offers . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/warren-mundine-backs-treaty-proce... https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/leading-no-campaigners-at-odd... and where’s JP ? Is she backing her NO teammate ?
The problem here is your a labor voter, which means you have a mentality where you must fit into a box that you have been told to fit into, LNP is different politicians can still have different views on things.
Its why in the LNP ministers have crossed the floor hundred of times in history while Labor only a handful, and these days you would be kicked out of the party for doing so.
I think its silly what he is saying but Warren Mundine has for a very long time supported treaty and even thinks changing the Australia day date would just end the debate.
I and many others including Jacinta don't agree with him on those two issues, but we all agree on that the Voice in the constitution is an issue and voting No.
Supafreak wrote:Can you spot the difference ?
Im not even sure what your point is?
One looks like a rally outdoors in the city where everyone has hats on.
The other looks like it was a conference or something inside and everyone a little dressed up.
Two very different types of events.
BTW. One thing i have noticed the No campaign has been all about information often based on exposing what the Yes camp have said or their documents.
While the Yes camp, seems to totally avoid an information approach. and rely more on gimmick's like walks or getting celebrities or artist involved, the voice ad is a classic example of this.
Good for you indo , if you don’t know vote no
Supafreak wrote:
I’m very surprised that you shared this Supa.
A channel 10 news segment re-posted by yes23.
I would expect this garbage from winniecoopr
What’s the genuine percentage of FNP that want the yes vote to succeed?
I know that 80% has been thrown around but where did this figure actually come from?
Big turn out for those that don’t know. https://x.com/cookersozstyle/status/1703317001551401091?s=46&t=5RczxwAfz... meanwhile at one of the yes rallies 
I focus wrote:Supafreak wrote:Spud will be pulling his hair out …..oh wait a minute …. I can see a little sweetner coming up to pull wazza into line . I’m not sure if they both are trying to out confuse each other or if its just a matter of let’s baffle everybody with BS . Spud changes his mind daily on what he’s going to do and wazza is just trying to cover all bases with job offers . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/warren-mundine-backs-treaty-proce... https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/leading-no-campaigners-at-odd... and where’s JP ? Is she backing her NO teammate ?
Mundine nuance was telling he advocates for empowering Aboriginals and their aspiration while Price plays politics telling her white audience exactly what they want to hear in other words Price treats them as useful idiots.
I don't agree with Mundine on many aspects but do wonder if he chooses to play the conservative side of politics because that's where change really has to come from?
Mundine wants treaties and a date change worst nightmare for a few here I would think.
Ha ha how ironic "useful idiots"
Yes voters are the definition of useful idiots, happy to be used by activist for their agenda and sign up to something that they dont even know the detail on.
burleigh wrote:What’s the genuine percentage of FNP that want the yes vote to succeed?
I know that 80% has been thrown around but where did this figure actually come from?
It came from two online polls paid for by the Yes camp way back in Jan/feb, you know when the Yes vote even in general pop was something like 70%
One was only 300 people the other 800, you only had to tick a box to say you are Indigenous, at best even if they were indigenous most were probably just white city folk with some indigenous ancestor down their family tree.
Reality is we have no idea the percentage break down, although i do think its fair to say the majority would support it, i mean say you had a similar deal for Chinese Australians, im sure most would support it too, most groups of people no matter what the group is based on would be happy to take more power and privilege.
Supafreak wrote:Big turn out for those that don’t know. https://x.com/cookersozstyle/status/1703317001551401091?s=46&t=5RczxwAfz... meanwhile at one of the yes rallies
Pretty funny that the covid vaccine rallies were twice that size and the news kept telling us it was only a couple of thousand people, but now suddenly these are huge rallies.
You remember these rallies don’t ya Supa? What makes you think the government have peoples best interests at heart right now?
indo-dreaming wrote:burleigh wrote:What’s the genuine percentage of FNP that want the yes vote to succeed?
I know that 80% has been thrown around but where did this figure actually come from?
It came from two online polls paid for by the Yes camp way back in Jan/feb, you know when the Yes vote even in general pop was something like 70%
One was only 300 people the other 800, you only had to tick a box to say you are Indigenous, at best even if they were indigenous most were probably just white city folk with some indigenous ancestor down their family tree.
Reality is we have no idea the percentage break down, although i do think its fair to say the majority would support it, i mean say you had a similar deal for Chinese Australians, im sure most would support it too, most groups are happy to take more power and privilege.
No way. A poll of 300 people. Wow people are fucking gullible.
IMO I don’t think the percentage of FNP wanting this voice is 80%.
No campaigners like Anthony Mundine and co have been travelling the country talking to FNP.
My friend a Bundjalung man said he only knows of 2 people voting yes. Many more are NO.
Supafreak wrote:Big turn out for those that don’t know. https://x.com/cookersozstyle/status/1703317001551401091?s=46&t=5RczxwAfz... meanwhile at one of the yes rallies
Totally irrelevant, most Aussies didn't attended, whats more important is how many turn up and vote No, that the only event that really matters.
“ One was only 300 people the other 800, you only had to tick a box to say you are Indigenous, at best even if they were indigenous most were probably just white city folk with some indigenous ancestor down their family tree.”
As opposed to what Indo?
Being a full blood dressed in possum skins living in a bark hut in the middle of the Simpson desert hunting kangaroo and goanna for dinner?
Is Burleighs friend, the Bundjalung man, and the guy at #lowinfos wedding the same person?
Warren?
southernraw wrote:Is Burleighs friend, the Bundjalung man, and the guy at #lowinfos wedding the same person?
Warren?
I’ll put the same question to you. If a new poll was released and only 30% of FNP were in favour for the voice, would you still vote yes?
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28