The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
@Hutchy 19 , you have much hatred, you need help .
and i thought brutus was just the big dude in popeye...
I don't dispute your info hutchy, and I find it most interesting, but too much, too hard, too soon re. brutus...
he's been more than decent with you considering the sensitivity of the material
"A common response from people with a poor argument . Attack and Throw abuse"
Hutchy 19 MONDAY, 26 JUL 2021 at 4:51PM.
I accept the criticism and admit I was very angry . I am very passionate regarding this issue and am offended when someone says Australia committed genocide . Bonza , please have a look at all the previous posts as there is some history on this thread . At least I believe I have fair arguments and not saying one word ie . strawman Still waiting for you to come up with that one name re the Basque thread . I apologise Brutus for getting too personal . I do have a combative nature which I do need to control better .
Hutchy19, aah my old mate. As someone who has known you many years and shared many, many good times with you back in the day, surfing, chasing girls, pulling cones, getting pissed, I was surprised to see you show up here so angry. It is not like you. I know you are a good man, one of the best fathers I know and you and your brother were so good to me when my mum died, and all those years when we were younger, you looked after me when I was an idiot We lost contact, haven't seen you since New Brighton at Jakes that time, gotta be 15 or 20 years. Spoke to your brother tonight actually, he just bought a house in Yamba and it looks like I'll be relocating up near there next year so reunion time. Get my number and ring me, we should catch up, go for a surf.
Ha! was it hard to understand "every fish" in australian freshwater streams?
Murray Cod, Trout Cod, Golden Perch, Macquarie Perch (Maccas - my fav), Silver Perch, a number of gudgeons, several Galaxis. Murray Spiny Cray and many other crayfish, dragonflies, stoneflies, mayflies, and aquatic worms and the mighty red gum.
now go take your wonderful research skills. and type this in your browser.
artificial flow regimes, cold water pollution, flooding of riparian vegetation, and loss of habitat related to instream barriers e.g. Dams
educated yet? I doubt it. .
sorry to hijack the thread. last breath i'll waste on Hutch.
Hutchy 19 wrote:I accept the criticism and admit I was very angry . I am very passionate regarding this issue and am offended when someone says Australia committed genocide . Bonza , please have a look at all the previous posts as there is some history on this thread . At least I believe I have fair arguments and not saying one word ie . strawman Still waiting for you to come up with that one name re the Basque thread . I apologise Brutus for getting too personal . I do have a combative nature which I do need to control better .
Hutchy , yeah people like you like to get personal and attack because I dared to shake your tree of belief that there was not genocide with the Stolen generation, , and you are offended......to the point it seems to have rattled your possible whiteness and sense of ownership of a period that shames and embarrasses our once white only policies.....ever heard of the white Australia policy?
You have made some pretty wild claims regarding myself being Brutus signed sealed and delivered as a snake in the grass, arrested judged and convicted by ol Hutchy because I chose a name from 2000 years ago.....
wow you must have such a high intellect to be able to come on here spouting insults and bullshit about how great you are , but offended by me repeating what most Australians know and the decision handed down......which said, "The announcement comes more than two decades after the landmark Bringing Them Home report recommended compensation be paid to survivors, their family members, communities, and descendants.
Handed down in 1997, the report referenced harrowing stories of grief, loss, and survival, and it accused governments across Australia of committing genocide and perpetuating an intergenerational cycle of trauma.
“When a child was forcibly removed that child’s entire community lost, often permanently, its chance to perpetuate itself in that child. The inquiry has concluded that this was a primary objective of forcible removals and is the reason they amount to genocide,” the report said."
So hutch you can keep trolling and yelling insults , but I posted the article as a good news event , as you can see in the above quote....reparations are going to paid recognizing the 1997 "Bringing them home Report ".....instead of trying to find links to back up your hurt at me calling the SG genocide.....perhaps you could join us and read.....
https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/bringing-them-home-report-1997
You are right Brutus ! WTF do I really know. about YOU . Nothing . Very Sorry for my personal post !!!
All the best to you ! I will read the report you posted . I woke up this morning regretting my anger from yesterday and wanted to let you know of my remorse .
Hello Adam . Great to hear from you . Keep surfing .
Bonza - your task was to come up with ONE plant that has been detrimentally affected by ANY Australian Dam . Not where the Dam is of course . Your answer , The Red Gum ( also known as the Blue Gum in Qld ) . They are prolific and in no way at threat .
I read the article Brutus .
Unfortunately I am cautious of our Human Rights Commission . I have a different view to them on illegal immigrants and believe Australia should have control of our boarders and especially with regard to boats .They have shown a bias which I do not like . I will go with the view of our Federal and State courts . I love that Australia ( and especially Melb ) is a melting pot of different people .
The White Australia Policy was , I believe , a result of issues with the Chinese in Northern Australia and their land practices . It was not related to our Indigenous people .
Adam12 Guess that’s no for your catch up with the hutch man ha ha ha
You are right Brutus ! WTF do I really know. about YOU . Nothing . Very Sorry for my personal post !!!
All the best to you ! I will read the report you posted . I woke up this morning regretting my anger from yesterday and wanted to let you know of my remorse .No drama's Hutchy, there's a lot of anger in the World right now , and if you go back and read Blue Diamonds original reason for trying to create a forum where we are all civil to each other and respect each others opinions , well we might actually be communicating and listening better to try and understand why the world is so polarized between left and right......so join the conversation , respect what we all have to say, read the links provided.....and we all should be better for it!
Just for the record I was one of the worst / angry / opinionated people on forums....which means people don't listen , and so you waste your time yelling angry statements......as you are the only one listening to yourself, LOL!
You said you read the article....but did you read the Report?
Brutus . I did not read the whole report but just the recommendations . I agree with the reports findings .
4. That every Indigenous community is entitled to adequate funding and other resources to enable it to support and provide for families and children and to ensure that the removal of children is the option of last resort.
5. That the human rights of Indigenous children will be ensured.
Also agree that adoption should be a last resort .
I do believe that in special situations that ANY child should be removed ( forcibly if necessary) if in danger .
My knowledge on this subject is incomplete as I have not been personally affected . No first hand experience .
Frustrated that the report recommends a lot of committees to study the problems as I want things done NOW to help the children . As you said this issue is " the elephant in the room " and I hope those affected will stop being trampled .
My worry about Human Rights Commissions is influenced by a belief that they are too political . The UN HRC has China , Cuba , Libya , Bahrain and Sudan as current members .
Thank you for accepting my apology ! I should never have lowered myself to giving abuse like too many other contributors do on this site . I will TRY and learn from the experience .
hutchy , what a great result that you have learnt something on a forum and are now a better person and also we can chat about the subject at hand without any insults back and forward.....
Just so you know I have a lot of first hand stories of the stolen generation , and have suffered racism my whole life here in Australia......but it's something that needs to dealt with , by education and understanding.......
I think you are from NSW , so you might not know who Eddie Betts is...he is one of the top AFL players in the country and a proud Blackfella .....have a read...
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/eddie-betts-speaks-out-on-afl-racism...
I personally see what he sees and feels......and I see Australia as still one of the most racist country's in the World.....but we are getting so much better .....
Brutus - I started to sense you had first hand experience with racism and I then realised that , as I had not , my knowledge on this issue was incomplete .
I was born in Melb and went to NSW aged 12 and came back to Melb at 18 . Lived in Sydney for ten years and back to Melb in 2001 ( after the Olympics ) .
Eddie is one of my favourite players of all time !!!! A wonderful role model for all Australians . I don't barrack for the Blues ( Dees ). He is an incredible footballer but also SO respect the way he has acted when confronted with racism ( better than Goode ) .
I will read the article you posted . Thanks .
Goofyfoot, he rang me that day and we spoke for over an hour and will be catching up for a surf as soon as covid allows. We've been mates for over 40 years, still the same.
Hutchy 19, for what it's worth, i was so proud of the way Goodes handled the situation and himself. Wasn't proud at all of the way the media/afl and general punter handled it. Goodesy is a deadset legend and paved the way for blokes like Eddie Betts, in my humble opinion.
I think Eddie's approach was different and MUCH better than Goodes . No throwing pretend spears at opposition supporters or making an issue/ singling out a young girl and calling her out as the " face of racism in Australia " . Eddie had a very different way of handling the exact same situation imho .
Goodes was a legend footballer . The other great Indigenous footballers for me include Polly Farmer , The Krakouer brothers ,Farmer ( The Wizard ) , Williams , Wangeneen , Burgoyne and of course Kossie . I could name so many more .
Hutchy 19 wrote:I think Eddie's approach was different and MUCH better than Goodes . No throwing pretend spears at opposition supporters or making an issue/ singling out a young girl and calling her out as the " face of racism in Australia " . Eddie had a very different way of handling the exact same situation imho .
Goodes was a legend footballer . The other great Indigenous footballers for me include Polly Farmer , The Krakouer brothers ,Farmer ( The Wizard ) , Williams , Wangeneen , Burgoyne and of course Kossie . I could name so many more .
hey Hutchy , Adam Goodes enacted a dance celebrating what he had been doing with some junior indigenous players...he didn't throw any spears at opposition supporters , the girl that racially vilified him , should have had her Mum charged as she was goading her on.......Eddie M is a moron ,.....watching all the booing when Adam played , was soul destroying for me I have never been able to really be passionate about AFL again and then there was the story of Robbie Muir....ouch, a lot of shit that gets misinterpreted by whitefellas ...who unknowingly ( I would hope!?) do shit without understanding the hurt they cause.....I cannot recommend highly enough the Adam Goodes doco....
@Hutchy19, it will be interesting to see if Taylor Walker gets booed relentlessly by stadiums full of Aussies every time he takes the field now. By rights and in comparison to Goodes (doing so wrong in standing up for himself and his people hence ultimately cutting his playing career short,) Walker should receive the same, if not worse treatment from the public?? Not sure what was said but it must have been pretty bad going by the reaction.
Interesting that you were unaware of the significance of the celebration of the dance that Brutus pointed out above but have your mind made up about him.
And this press conference by Matthew Nicks is worth a watch if you want to see the flow on effects Adam Goodes' stand against racism has had. I wonder if this same language and action from a club would have been so swift and comprehensive pre Goodesy.
btw: Maurice Rioli Jnr takes to the G today for his first game. Can't wait to see him in action.
Brutus - Goodes did run at opposition supporters and threw at them . Against Port Adelaide in think . To me it was a form of intimidation and although it was later shown to have a cultural back ground it was not known by the supporters . Not the right action for the Australian of the Year imo .
The girls mum was stupid to have goaded her on . What a terrible role model ! I do though think it was wrong of Goodes to call her out as the face of racism in Australia . As I said Eddie Betts handled the same situation very differently which was lauded by many .
The relentless booing of Goodes was not a racism issue imo . It may have begun as that but it escalated as it clearly negatively affected the way he was playing . If he said when it first started that it was giving him inspiration to play better and proving it with on field performances it would have been nipped in the bud VERY early . The fact it was making him play poorly caused all opposition supporters to go harder .
As you would Brutus AFL is a dog eat dog , super competitive sport were players and supporters will do anything to get an advantage .
Blue Diamond - just saw your post . I do not think many non Indigenous supporters new the cultural significance of the dance when Goodes did it . I think Goodes would have known this . So it was imo intimidation and if I remember correctly this was evident on the faces and reactions of the supporters .
I expect and hope TEX is booed by opposition supporter ( and suspended if proven ) but it will stop quickly if it fires him up to player even better .
I guess this is off the cards for you too then Hutchy19
Would like to add - Why did the booing start at Goodes ? It was well after he was named Australian of the Year . No other Indigenous player ( luckily ) has had to endure booing from all opposition supporters .
Winmar yes by Collingwood supporters but was widely praised by others .
Also Cyril Rioli was wonderful . Won a GF for Hawthorn and helped start their latest dynasty (unfortunately ) .
Hutchy 19. Please explain to me in the simplest way possible how and why you are offended by the claim that Australia committed genocide.
How many Aboriginal (Australian) people do you know or have met ? Thanks.
Blue Diamond - I looked at the video and am disappointed that you perhaps think the two situations are in any way similar . I have no problem with what Xavier did . Was not running or directing arrows at any supporters . Believe he was trying to show he was a sharp shooter . Very Poor decision by you imo .
I will not the link to the Goodes situation as I really do not want to see it again .
I did do a bit of research and now realise he pretended to throw a boomerang not a spear . Makes no difference as both are weapons .
adam12 wrote:Goofyfoot, he rang me that day and we spoke for over an hour and will be catching up for a surf as soon as covid allows. We've been mates for over 40 years, still the same.
Epic.
Actually there is a bit of difference . The boomerang came back and hit him in the face .
Interesting you see them as being different. Is it due to colour differences? Ok to do if you're white and supported by your club and fans, not ok to do if you're black and getting booed every week? Different choice of weapon. Aimed 3 degrees to the left....I'm confused on that one Hutchy19. Is there degrees of differences of when and who can do this celebration and how?
Overall, Is it not possible that Goodes' frustrations came out of the exact feeling that 'white is right' and if you're an aboriginal fella that say's enough is enough, well, boooo....that doesn't fit into the narrative of how we want our blackfellas dammit!!?? Just shutup and play or piss off. Boooo. hmm.
No worries though, you seem to be pretty set in your views on it, and i am in mine but cool to have a discussion about it. I think Goodes would be glad the discussion is being had.
I can't really add more without going down the same road that was gone over and over during and since it happened....And really, alot of it is better left said from those actually living it.....
Hence...Last link from me I promise....but you mentioned you applaud Eddie Betts, yet deplore Goodes for his actions....
here's Eddies thoughts on Goodesy. I reckon almost all indigenous players would have similar sentiments.
https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/eddie-betts-shares-confronting-adam-goode...
Ohh poor poor Hutchy 19. Still so hurt by the throwing of an imaginary spear 6 years ago. Are you going to be OK buddy?
Goodes had been racially abused all his life. After being called an "ape" he really upset the poor white trash of Australia and called out the racism for what it was. He was a big enough man to try and protect the girl when he found out she was only 13.
When the black athlete said enough is enough, things have to change, the knuckle -draggers went ballistic. They expect and demand that black sports people keep their mouth's shut and just play. Yes, Australians will celebrate people like Ash Barty, but if she started getting too lippy and demanding equality for indigenous people, the mob would turn on her big time.
I'm reading "Why we kneel - how we rise" by Michael Holding. Great book. Anyone who thinks there wasn't deeply ingrained racism involved in the booing of Adam Goodes is deluding themselves.
Hutchy 19 wrote:Would like to add - Why did the booing start at Goodes ? It was well after he was named Australian of the Year . No other Indigenous player ( luckily ) has had to endure booing from all opposition supporters .
Winmar yes by Collingwood supporters but was widely praised by others .Also Cyril Rioli was wonderful . Won a GF for Hawthorn and helped start their latest dynasty (unfortunately ) .
No it wasn't, he was named Australian of the year in January 2014
The booing started after he singled a young girl out 24th May 2013 for calling him an ape, Aussies in general didnt like a grown man doing that to a young girl especially on live TV
But to be fair the media shouldn't have zoomed in on her, i think the media were the real problem, they wanted a story and stirred things up as much as they could, labelling the crowd racist etc, then Goods didn't react very well in the following weeks antagonising the crowd, yeah okay it was the indigenous round but really, he might as well stuck his fingers up at the crowd mouthing fuck you or pretending he was shooting guns into the crowd. (I think there was another incident too)
To make things worse they thought giving Goodes Australian of the year was a good idea, FFS seriously who really thought that was a good idea?
Some will always want to call anything they feel uncomfortable with as racism its a cheap scape goat, reality is Aussies generally call things out, Goodes got called out for being a dick and the media just wanted a big story so poured as much petrol on things as they could.
And then yeah let's make a movie and leave important pivot points and aspects out.,,,great
Crazy world
As you would have seen from the guy just above, some of the people who claim to be anti racist are actually the most divisive people...sadly its a pattern that is growing too.
Just dont let Australia become like America.
Indo, if Adam Goodes made you and many others feel uncomfortable, i'd say that's a win for him and the people he's representing.
The fact we're here talking about it now, is also another win for him.
And to the poster above...awesome post VL.
"Goodes got called out for being a dick." Does Toby Greene get endlessly booed by AFL crowds, because he really is a dick? There's no shortage of thugs who play in the AFL. Funny how they don't get booed like the bloke who called out racism.
So what should Goodes have done after getting racially abused? Shut up and play, like a good black man?
What should the three black English soccer players do after they were mercilessly racially abused by the English fans? Shut up and play.
Colin Kaepernick. Don't kneel to protest police brutality. Shut up and play.
Fuck that. This type of racist bullshit is fucking toxic, and I'm lucky enough not to be subjected to it. I will go to fucking war with any cunt that thinks this shit is acceptable.
The thing is, people who play team sports generally don't tolerate any form of racism by their own or opposition players. It's the fucking losers in the crowd or behind keyboards who think this shit is acceptable. It's typically the weak-as-piss drunken white losers too shit to be on the playing field dishing out the racist abuse.
If anyone didnt feel uncomfortable watching a grown man humiliate a young girl in front of the rest of Australia there is something very wrong with them. (but i guess in fairness he didnt expect it to be broadcast)
I dont think any of it was a win for him or for anyone, im betting if he could go back he would have just ignored the girl and kept on playing football, just like football players ignore all kinds of abuse every week (not saying its right they get abuse)
I actually feel for him in a way, i think he made some poor decisions that caused him a lot of grief and i feel for him in that he was used by the media to just sell a story and then latter used to sell a narrative.
He should have been remembered as a great AFL player, but now he is remembered for all this.
The fact he didnt want to be part of that movie about him and not be in the hall of fame etc or even go watch AFL is just as sad.
@Vic Local
Plenty of players get booed at times whenever they go near the ball, the difference is they dont try to then take on the crowd, or the media dont try to stir up shit, so it dies down.
Dont forget one thing Adam didnt get booed for most of his career, only when he acted like a dick.
But everything to you is racist, you have proven this time after time especially when people are trying to have a mature conversation about immigration etc
People like you these days are the real problem always looking to cause division.
Vic Local - you don't need to worry about me . Not hurt by the sorry sage re Goodes but am very saddened by the sordid affair . Also sorry I mentioned his name in a previous post .
" He was a big enough man to try and protect the girl when he found out she was only 13."
I find it hard to believe you can write this or believe this . He looked at the young girl , she could have been b/w 11-15 ( makes no difference ), and made a mistake calling her out . He was not at all trying to protect her !!! Maybe himself and his reputation . The media's response made things worse .
You are also SO wrong to think Australians would turn on Ash Barty if she demanded EQUALITY for Indigenous people . We would applaud her . She and all people of colour acting with dignity are wonderful role models FOR equality for everyone . We call out people like Bernard Tomic who act like D... Heads .
I look at your photo and wonder what you are pointing with . Is it a trash gun ? I get the feeling you were not born in Australia due to your lack of knowledge of so our called trash and knuckle draggers . Trash comes from all over the world . Most Australians ( not you obviously ) have been shown that people of ALL colours and cultures add a great positive dimension to our wonderful country . We believe everyone deserves a fair go . We love the so called underdog .
You don't think for just a second, humiliating that little girl wasn't in the slightest bit justified?
Just because she's a little girl gives her a free pass?
I'm kinda hoping she may have learned one a lifes valuable lessons- accountability.
"Plenty of players get booed whenever they go near the ball", Maybe for a game yes (after a violent incident), but please name a player who has been booed for more than a season by all opposing clubs. I will wait.
"Dont forget one thing Adam didnt get booed for most of his career." It just started after he called out the racist abuse. Do you think there might be a connection?
But please tell me again how the booing of Goodes wasn't racist.
@indo said " im betting if he could go back he would have just ignored the girl and kept on playing football, just like football players ignore all kinds of abuse every week (not saying its right they get abuse)"
Indo, i reckon you also are always gonna be stuck in your views i wouldn't expect anything or anyone to change them.
That exact paragraph you wrote, highlights the problem. The apathy, the lack of education and the ignorance shown towards racism pointed directly at Indigenous Australians.
It's a matter of perspective. You can try to see the world from outside of you and through someone elses eyes, or you could not. To not, is to remain in a narrow view and for me, personally, i'd be cautious listening to anything that comes from the mind of those who aren't open to a bigger perspective.
Blue Diamond - I am loosing respect of your views . As I pointed out the video you posted was in NO way connected with this topic . To like VL's post shows me a new side of you imo .
All good Hutchy19. I'll still offer my respect to you.
Not here to be liked though.
Vic Local wrote:"Plenty of players get booed whenever they go near the ball", Maybe for a game yes (after a violent incident), but please name a player who has been booed for more than a season by all opposing clubs. I will wait.
"Dont forget one thing Adam didnt get booed for most of his career." It just started after he called out the racist abuse. Do you think there might be a connection?
But please tell me again how the booing of Goodes wasn't racist.
Look people like you will never get it, you want everything to be about racism.
Do you honestly think if he was white and treated a young girl like that he wouldn't get booed, offcourse he would, the difference is the media wouldn't jump on the issue and make it a big story and the player would be smart enough to not drag it out off the field and just get on with playing footy and the booing would quickly go away.
The worst thing to do would obviously be to try to take on the crowd, obviously that is going to piss people off.
The big problem for Adam though was also the media making it a big story and in particular calling the people booing racist.
As soon as the media labeled them racist and thought they knew why they are booing, people were going to go, fuck you im booing and your aren't going to tell me why im booing, i will decide that not you.
Anyway like i said, people like you and bluediamond want to see racism in everything and anything, im not even sure why.
BTW Bluediamond i use to share your views even what the original topic is about i remember thinking Aboriginal people should receive some big pay out or al get land, because i blindly believed cliche narratives, i was the uneducated one i now have a much broader view.
My wife is Asian with brown skin as are many of my friends in Australia, my best mate is part Aboriginal with fairly brown skin, i even lived with him and a few other guys one a darker skinned Aboriginal guy, ive seen things through all their eyes, and racism these days at least in my community is quite rare, which is not really a surprise as Australia is so multicultural.
Anyway done this whole topic before will try to leave it there.
No worries Indo!! I agree, we don't see eye to eye. To be honest, i'm pretty encouraged to see crew commenting on here who do have a genuine understanding of this conversation and who's input is from an educated, and empathetic viewpoint, and not so much about themselves. And i'm learning alot from both the crew i agree with, and the crew who's views i don't so much agree with. Like i said, good to keep an open mind and get the bigger picture. Perspective!
It's so good to see alot of crew actually are aware and awake...and educated!! I didn't realise so many of the Swellnuts had seriously good ethics on this particular subject because i've felt pretty alone bar a couple of notable (and missing in action) comrades on this topic.
I'm feeling buoyed that all is not lost and the dinosaurs will eventually die out. Have a good weekend, even if you don't read this!
Blue Diamond . Just read another of your posts re the video that you posted . As I thought I pointed out clearly the 2 were very different . NOT because of the different colour of the individuals OR their choice of weapon !!! I wonder why and why you wrote that . It was because one seemed a celebration of a players sharp shooting skills and in NO way directed at opposition supporters and the other .......
Not happy with your insinuation .
@hutchy19 ¯\_(ツ)_/
as VL pointed out, an imaginary spear 6 years ago. Like i said, brilliant post!
If you wanna move this conversation forward, cool, otherwise, this is just tit for tat, our own perspectives on something that, like i said, is best left for those that are living it to talk about. Did you read the Eddie Betts article? Thoughts???
Another one for you @hutchy19.
This is one for you and anyone reading this to consider and try stepping out of our 'white Australian mentality' and understand there is another culture that has existed, that thrived, and that owns this land. They were here before us, and they're still here! Fundamentally, the whole point of me starting this thread.
So read this, with an open mind, of the perspective of an Aboriginal man, and the world he's come from. If his ways scare you, confront you and make you want to lash out, consider, that is your resistance to a culture that was here long before us white invaders came along. Am i speaking anything other than truth here? Tell me where. Cheers.
https://theconversation.com/adam-goodes-dignity-and-aboriginal-men-what-...
p.s: sorry, wasn't gonna post more links but felt you were wanting more, so here it is.
I was not gong to read it but did after you asked for my thoughts . I assumed that Eddie , being the great person he is , would naturally support Adam . He did and I thought he was correct in EVERTHING he said . Was not surprised by anything in the article .
As I have said I am not fully aware of the hurt caused by racism as I have not experienced it . I have been subjected to verbal and physical abuse for being "different ". I have NEVER said or underestimated the pain caused to Adam by being racially vilified . To hear his obvious pain is very sad and he SHOULD be and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame . What I HAVE said is that he handled the same situations very differently to Eddie . He did make an error ( we all make mistakes ) in pointing out the young girl and the media then took it to another level . He also made a mistake to make the intimating gesture . The first error started the booing which I have acknowledged was racist . It then escalated to 10 on the Richter scale due to it badly affected his playing performances and his intimidating gesture and ultimately shortened his wonderful career . As I also said if he said at the start that the booing spurred him to play better and his performances proved this to be the case the booing would have stopped quickly imo . No normal opposition supporter would risk loosing a game to boo for racism . I know how AFL works and am sure of this . I am not as insensitive as you think . As I also said I now deeply regret bring up Adams name !!!!!! I am so over this and will not reply to the stupid question of why I am offended by Australia being accused of Genocide . WTF !!!!!! How stupid are some of the BOZO's on this site .
At Hutchy19, no worries, fair response,,...but, one mans perspective of an 'error' (pointing the finger etc) is another mans perspective of strength, resilience, solidarity and determination to his people, his tribe, his nation to stand up in the face of fire. Only you can choose your perspective on this.
And fwiw, i thought Brad Ferrier posed a perfectly reasonable question.
@udo, that's very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it.
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28