The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Am I correct in that the tribes who receive native title, which runs into the billions of dollars, is only spent on the tribes involved and not spread to other indigeneous people?
I think the De Groote Island way is the only way forward. Native Title money spent on improving the lives of all indigenous people not just the people within in the tribes. Young people learning about the culture and being guided by elders.
From what I have heard there is a huge amount of native title money out there but only spread to few.
I don`t know this first hand but have been told this by people working high up in construction companies run by aboriginals involved in mining. Millions and millions of dollars sitting in their accounts but will not be spent on anybody besides the people within the tribes involved.
Happy to stand corrected if this is not the case

bluediamond wrote:

Info, the crux of this debate with you was based on this bold statement you made, not so much to me, but to the requests of the Uluru statement...
"BD The communities with the biggest issues (remote communities) have the most self governance possible im not sure how you are going to increase the control they have over their communities, these are the communities where there is elders and even more traditional mindsets, culture often the strongest.'
You've provided no evidence of this statement which to me is the proof i need to know that most of what you write on here is sheer and utter bullshit. No surprises there. Unless you'd like to revisit that statemtent and ammend it...it was after all THE point of the argument that may have stopped it going around in circles, but at th most critical point of it you produce some unfounded and unverified statement as your main argument????????? Pffft.
Hence anything you say from this point on i'd consider ignorant and pure drivel..
Harchy, there is no way id waste another second of my time reading or responding to your extremely narrowminded views.
So yeah nothings changed there but glad to get to the bottom of it.

These remote community's are often 99% indigenous, almost everything in their community's is run by their own people with minimal outside influence, what more do you want???

The statement is factually correct.

No worries BD . Your responses are a waste of my time reading so thanks . I am very different to you .

I will continue to respond to your silly ideas ( so many ) in the hope that others will also see how idiotic they are .

In all your posts you have not given ONE sensible suggestion on how to improve our First Nations situation . You tried to claim Brutus's view that Healing Camps were working so that doesn't count .

indo-racistdreaming wrote:

brutus wrote:

Indo , no hope , your way or hit the highway, you learn nothing above your post is an excellent article about De Groote island , and how there is a need to go back to traditional culture and that the community elders take control of the community....but you say in your last statement that they need to change culturally....your mob tried that it was called the stolen generation......and here you are still trying to tell blackfellas to change their ways and culture....FFS till now it's been a miserable failure........"Because people are people the solutions needed aren't unique or rocket science, Employment, Education, Health care and Cultural change."..........that's where your lack of knowledge in Australia's history is laid bare!

Keep that head in the sand

haha Indo, you telling me keep my head in the sand where you absolutely refuse to look at any positive news on our First peoples dealing with their issues which are our issues.......then again as you want to change indigenous culture , to your culture , LOL, which is.......???

bluediamond wrote:

You two pricks, and a few others on here might not identify yourselves as being racist, in the classic sense of the word, but your extreme rigidness in your views and unwillingness to consider or to step into the shoes of a nation of people who have been dispossessed, while at the same time bleating your ignorant media fed drivel, is a huge part of the reason these problems remain. See, there's plenty of people out there just like you lot, with the same dangerous speech and views. I dare either of you to go to one of the towns up north mentioned above and voice your views there.....or is it just safer to sprout your shit from behind your keyboards?? Scum

Honestly i feel exact the same way about your views.

Indo , of course you see BD's post and our views as a rigid unbending view that where we see hope , reconciliation , and enormous progress in the National Psyche towards learning and understanding Australia's very long history so that we cab build a new National identity for all........whereas you are a first generation Australian who wants to live in Australia and hope that , as you said...".these blackfellas would change their culture" ...I can only guess that you want to turn them into whitefellas?
Indo you are a threat to the future wellbeing of Australia and we can only hope your kids or their kids will finally embrace an Australia that's inclusive of cultures and not just your version..!!!

indo-racistdreaming wrote:

bluediamond wrote:

You two pricks, and a few others on here might not identify yourselves as being racist, in the classic sense of the word, but your extreme rigidness in your views and unwillingness to consider or to step into the shoes of a nation of people who have been dispossessed, while at the same time bleating your ignorant media fed drivel, is a huge part of the reason these problems remain. See, there's plenty of people out there just like you lot, with the same dangerous speech and views. I dare either of you to go to one of the towns up north mentioned above and voice your views there.....or is it just safer to sprout your shit from behind your keyboards?? Scum

Honestly i feel exact the same way about your views.

brutus wrote:

indo-racistdreaming wrote:

brutus wrote:

Indo , no hope , your way or hit the highway, you learn nothing above your post is an excellent article about De Groote island , and how there is a need to go back to traditional culture and that the community elders take control of the community....but you say in your last statement that they need to change culturally....your mob tried that it was called the stolen generation......and here you are still trying to tell blackfellas to change their ways and culture....FFS till now it's been a miserable failure........"Because people are people the solutions needed aren't unique or rocket science, Employment, Education, Health care and Cultural change."..........that's where your lack of knowledge in Australia's history is laid bare!

Keep that head in the sand

haha Indo, you telling me keep my head in the sand where you absolutely refuse to look at any positive news on our First peoples dealing with their issues which are our issues.......then again as you want to change indigenous culture , to your culture , LOL, which is.......???

Which is?

Exactly, employment, education, health care are universal concepts and not a culture, nobody is trying to change anyones culture, but all cultures do need to adapt to the modern world too.

Culture being a broad term that covers lots of different ideals and habits.

Your head is in the sand because you ignore the importance of employment, education, health care and cultural change.

You instead take this Indigenous cultural is perfect and has all the answers to everything, when it clearly doesn't or there wouldn't be these issues.

BTW. Yesterday at about 6:02 i pointed out positive aspects of indigenous culture, but clearly this thread is about more complex issues.

Indo it's so disappointing that you don't know enough of our local history to be able to see the progress being made in Indigenous affairs , on all levels because you refuse to concede that we are evolving at an extraordinary pace , which a very positive thing.
When you talk about education, health , employment and cultural exchange....and I have my head in the sand,LOL !
Education is being revisited thru traditional culture...health communities trying to get rid of alcohol and sugar , booming Indigenous Art industry providing education and employment.....now sharing our Indigenous Culture with the World
When you talk about adapting to modern times/life , what are the incredible positives you see that First Nations peoples could learn off our current white Australian culture??

Brutus - Thanks for your links .

This is great "Education is being revisited thru traditional culture...health communities trying to get rid of alcohol and sugar , booming Indigenous Art industry providing education and employment.....now sharing our Indigenous Culture with the World "

What I hope to see is that these , and other new initiatives , make a real difference to the appalling statistics that need to change asap . If any are changing please let me know .

some good news from NZ.....educating NZ's children with the history of the country.......we could take a leaf out of their book!!
.https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/nov/02/new-zealands...

brutus wrote:

Indo it's so disappointing that you don't know enough of our local history to be able to see the progress being made in Indigenous affairs , on all levels because you refuse to concede that we are evolving at an extraordinary pace , which a very positive thing.
When you talk about education, health , employment and cultural exchange....and I have my head in the sand,LOL !
Education is being revisited thru traditional culture...health communities trying to get rid of alcohol and sugar , booming Indigenous Art industry providing education and employment.....now sharing our Indigenous Culture with the World
When you talk about adapting to modern times/life , what are the incredible positives you see that First Nations peoples could learn off our current white Australian culture??

If so great but im not sure where you are getting your stats from, because when i read news stories on indigenous problems, i only read that despite hundreds of millions being spent little is getting better in some case things worse, which is no surprise because you cant fix many of the problems with money, as pointed out many times there will never be widespread jobs in whop whop or great education or great medical care, its just not realistic to have these things in every remote community.

And obviously not everyone can become an Indigenous artist or indigenous tour guide or whatever there is just not enough demand.

There is no current set Australian culture as such especially a white culture, it doesn't exist as such there is a whole range of different cultural elements, from a whole host of ethnic groups, English, Chinese, Vietnamese, Sudanese and a whole lot more.

Even so called white people have different cultural aspects someone from Holland for instance is different to someone from America, in language, accent, dates they celebrate, foods they favour etc

Im Australian, but reality is like i said the other day i have a lot of cultural aspects adopted from my Indonesian wife, I was married in a traditional wedding that took three days complete with all kinds of ceremonies, through different life events like pregnancy, deaths, or even my childs first birthday, her family back home will have different traditional ceremonies with the community we often send some cash to support this, we speak a mix of english and Indonesian at home, every second meal is Indonesian, im involved with Indonesian community here and there is aspects/events we share that many Australians don't like Ramadan, i guess we even have odd little things like daughters ears being pieced in the first few weeks of being born which is the norm in Indonesia but people find strange here.

None of this make's us any more special than anyone else, these cultural aspects can be interesting but not a key to solving life problems and all cultures have positive and negatives aspects/tendencies/traits.

Employment, education, health care like mentioned are universal things 99% of the worlds communities see the importance in these things, these are the base's of all successfully society's in a modern world.

And not exactly a radical out there view.

That’s twice I’ve read it now.
Whop Whop?
Where is this strange far off place?

seeds wrote:

That’s twice I’ve read it now.
Whop Whop?
Where is this strange far off place?

"informal Australian
A humorous name for a remote outback town or district."

https://www.lexico.com/definition/woop_woop

Actually seems it might even have Aboriginal roots.

"Origin
1920s a jocular use of reduplication, a characteristic of Aboriginal languages."

Somebody correct me if im wrong, but I expect like many languages like Bahasa Indonesian, two words of the same thing can often be used together to highlight/increase meaning of a word, perhaps it comes from some Indigenous dialect, like "Woop" might mean over there, but used twice it might mean, way way over there.

Just a guess, would be interesting to know, not a whole lot comes up on a google search.

Geez - you think I don’t know where woop woop is/means?
First I thought it was a typo on your behalf but the second time had me thinking. Probably just auto correct Americana. Anyway off topic. Back to the merry go round

"The real estate part is an interesting one. Have you bought a house/land or intend to do so?
If so, is that contradicting what your beliefs are? (Owning land that’s not ours in the first place)"

This was the very first response to your thread BD, and you never did answer it...
Care to now?

indo-dreaming wrote:

seeds wrote:

That’s twice I’ve read it now.
Whop Whop?
Where is this strange far off place?

"informal Australian
A humorous name for a remote outback town or district."

https://www.lexico.com/definition/woop_woop

Actually seems it might even have Aboriginal roots.

"Origin
1920s a jocular use of reduplication, a characteristic of Aboriginal languages."

Somebody correct me if im wrong, but I expect like many languages like Bahasa Indonesian, two words of the same thing can often be used together to highlight/increase meaning of a word, perhaps it comes from some Indigenous dialect, like "Woop" might mean over there, but used twice it might mean, way way over there.

Just a guess, would be interesting to know, not a whole lot comes up on a google search.

Indo, I think it is similar. Apparently Wagga Wagga means lots of crows for example.

Cheers Distracted, interesting.

Can anyone confirm whether native title money, which is in the billions, is shared around or kept by the tribes of that area.

Indo, you look for the negative always in discussing Indigenous affairs. I know the negatives are overwhelming and makes it easy to sit back and give up , as there are $billions of $'s spent , but not effectively as there is a part to helping Blackfellas , which is a scam, as always when there are enormous Government intervention and $'s to be made.
I could tell first hand stories of where so much money is wasted delivering Goods and services to Community's , that they don't want or need....but big profits are made ....what is disconcerting in your view of Indigenous affairs , is your dismissal of the longest living culture on Earth .....and you saying they need to change because , white fellas /Anglo Saxon culture is superior , has all the money which provide education/health care...
I say we are still learning about Indigenous culture and in this culture there is education...most of the health problems the community's face are from Alcohol/drugs /sugar/poor diet /Diabetes....which western Culture introduced to them......and Western Society is also suffering from the same afflictions.....
That's why there are (mostly women elders) now community's that are alcohol/sugar free....to stop the degradation of their physical health, which with traditional education also improves mental health...because the western Cultural Model does not work for indigenous people and why should it when their traditional cultural model.....doesn't have to worry about physical health issues and the sense of belonging and connection delivers the foundation of their civilization....

Once again when you talk about Australia's white culture which is Anglo Saxon/White Australia policy...it's exactly that.......English Colonial Culture which we are currently dismantling with History providing a look at what doesn't work , well for any of us....as we are now integrating and assimilating a lot of different cultures....but there are still bastions of white colonial /white is right people ...who still want the good old days....thankfully an ever decreasing minority.

So Indo I get your Indonesian ties and Dutch....what I am trying to get you to understand is you are very light on with what an Australian was , is and going to be.....but you cannot achieve that with out understanding history......warts and all........what I have seen and experienced in the last 24 mths is acceptance and actions that now show respect and a will to undo past wrongs by acknowledging Culture/Country and one of the most artistic vibrant people on the planet.

So that's why I have learnt more in the last 12 mths than my whole life about Australia's founding Culture...the positives far outweigh the negatives...

indo-dreaming wrote:

brutus wrote:

Indo it's so disappointing that you don't know enough of our local history to be able to see the progress being made in Indigenous affairs , on all levels because you refuse to concede that we are evolving at an extraordinary pace , which a very positive thing.
When you talk about education, health , employment and cultural exchange....and I have my head in the sand,LOL !
Education is being revisited thru traditional culture...health communities trying to get rid of alcohol and sugar , booming Indigenous Art industry providing education and employment.....now sharing our Indigenous Culture with the World
When you talk about adapting to modern times/life , what are the incredible positives you see that First Nations peoples could learn off our current white Australian culture??

If so great but im not sure where you are getting your stats from, because when i read news stories on indigenous problems, i only read that despite hundreds of millions being spent little is getting better in some case things worse, which is no surprise because you cant fix many of the problems with money, as pointed out many times there will never be widespread jobs in whop whop or great education or great medical care, its just not realistic to have these things in every remote community.

And obviously not everyone can become an Indigenous artist or indigenous tour guide or whatever there is just not enough demand.

There is no current set Australian culture as such especially a white culture, it doesn't exist as such there is a whole range of different cultural elements, from a whole host of ethnic groups, English, Chinese, Vietnamese, Sudanese and a whole lot more.

Even so called white people have different cultural aspects someone from Holland for instance is different to someone from America, in language, accent, dates they celebrate, foods they favour etc

Im Australian, but reality is like i said the other day i have a lot of cultural aspects adopted from my Indonesian wife, I was married in a traditional wedding that took three days complete with all kinds of ceremonies, through different life events like pregnancy, deaths, or even my childs first birthday, her family back home will have different traditional ceremonies with the community we often send some cash to support this, we speak a mix of english and Indonesian at home, every second meal is Indonesian, im involved with Indonesian community here and there is aspects/events we share that many Australians don't like Ramadan, i guess we even have odd little things like daughters ears being pieced in the first few weeks of being born which is the norm in Indonesia but people find strange here.

None of this make's us any more special than anyone else, these cultural aspects can be interesting but not a key to solving life problems and all cultures have positive and negatives aspects/tendencies/traits.

Employment, education, health care like mentioned are universal things 99% of the worlds communities see the importance in these things, these are the base's of all successfully society's in a modern world.

And not exactly a radical out there view.

Off topic here Brutas but i love Ramadan, only trouble is i got dengue fever during ramadan and the hospital was closed for a week. Another problem was in my back yard of my kos/apartment lived a few cows where they would eat all the grass every second day or so.
One day i noticed they went missing and asked the security guard about them. He said a man came from lombok nearing the end of Ramadan tied the cows (between 8 and 10) to himself then tied the cows to the back of his small boat and drove back to lombok,..the local police investigated and said it was magic.cool cops in sumbawa, no fines for speedin or not wearing a helmet, but jeez the cops are uneducated. lol.

Info going around in circles on this forum topic

Constance B Gibson wrote:

FFS! Enough dumb, deliberately ill-tuned, white noise already!

“…more of Australia’s history took place outside the law than within it, and more attempt was made to hide it than record it.” - Les Murray (perhaps Australia's pre-eminent poet, old contrarian rat-bag, and one time contributing editor to the right-wing Quadrant magazine. RIP)

https://theconversation.com/why-do-first-nations-people-continue-to-be-h...

History matters!

Why don’t the authors of the article count Europeans as indigenous? There is a notion that European peoples aren’t t indigenous in their own lands. I wonder if European nations peoples are included in the 700 signatures of indigenous populations? Very strange.

From the linked declaration of indigenous rights :

“The process moved very slowly because of concerns expressed by States with regard to some of the core provisions of the draft declaration, namely the right to self-determination of indigenous peoples and the control over natural resources existing on indigenous peoples’ traditional lands.”

I wonder how this would affect the rights of the English to counter rules imposed by a sovereignty-ceding international treaty or order?

Constance B Gibson wrote:

FFS! Enough dumb, deliberately ill-tuned, white noise already!

“…more of Australia’s history took place outside the law than within it, and more attempt was made to hide it than record it.” - Les Murray (perhaps Australia's pre-eminent poet, old contrarian rat-bag, and one time contributing editor to the right-wing Quadrant magazine. RIP)

https://theconversation.com/why-do-first-nations-people-continue-to-be-h...

History matters!

This seems to be Hutchys problem. He can’t seem to realise this is how it worked. His insistence that if he can’t find a written record of something then it didn’t happen even if the victims say it did. That would lead to a bit of resentment Hutch. Having the truth white washed for 2 hundred years and all.

Seeds - You write BS . Why ?

Can't remember ever saying anything like this "He can’t seem to realise this is how it worked. His insistence that if he can’t find a written record of something then it didn’t happen even if the victims say it did. "

Why don't you prove you are right and show me where I wrote it ? You won't as you are a liar .

I did read the link . This was written -

T"he UN Committee recognised Indigenous people as entitled to a special category of rights. In the Declaration they shared a common entitlement to what they had held historically and was still under threat:

their political, economic and social structures and […] their cultures, spiritual traditions, histories and philosophies, especially their rights to their lands, territories and resources. "

Very happy tfor all indigenous people to keep and promote their cultures , traditions and histories .

I know we all will be able to learn a lot eg cland management
.

Some plilosifies no . The world has moved on and wont allow human sacrifice head hunting , an eye for an eye etc .

How does politics work here . Too many mobs , clans and tribes imo .

Land rights . How does that work ? What % indigenous blood is involved ?

I know you can't answer my questions seed as you haven't been bothered to THINK about the important details .
.

.

"Why don’t the authors of the article count Europeans as indigenous? There is a notion that European peoples aren’t t indigenous in their own lands. I wonder if European nations peoples are included in the 700 signatures of indigenous populations? Very strange."

The concept of indigenous people usually relates to the people occupying a region prior to invasion and colonisation. And yes, you could argue, given the historical frequency of invasions in Europe, that some populations should be considered indigenous. In practical terms this is made difficult by large scale interbreeding and the lack of cultural association. So the Romans invaded Britain, then the Anglo-Saxons and finally the Normans. In most areas of Britain today however, people do not associate their identity or culture with any of those groups. The Welsh, Scots and Irish would have the best claim to indigenous status as they are more closely related to the original British tribes than others....but while they are interested in political independence, the concept of claiming indigenous status doesn't seem to have been considered. I think the same sort of explanation would apply to most of Europe, though the Sami people (Laplanders) probably do fit easily under the definition. Can't think of any others.

Show you where you wrote it. You think I can be bothered trawling through all the pages of this thread. And it wasn’t what you said verbatim but you have used these sort of statements. I’m sure others will attest to this. BTW I’m not asking anyone to attest to this

I admire your efforts for the cause , but that article is way too woke for me CBG. The terminology is straight out of a USA BLM handbook.. And I'm on the blackfellas side here. That whole "what can I do" section was a laugh, too much tokenism for me.

Haha Conny I’m not silly enough to engage with any of the blow hards on here. It just goes on and on ad nauseam.
Hey I like that bit about “power differentials and white privilege” amongst other great points in your link.
Something that is lost on some here

“Racism is a white problem and white people need to be the ones to solve it.”

Lol. Someone needs a holiday in Cambodia!

That’s the shame about the cyber era, articles like that aren’t even useful for lining the budgie cage with any more.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/02/18/covid-blackface-tv-chinas-racism-pro...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/27/china-and-i...

Blowin wrote:

“Racism is a white problem and white people need to be the ones to solve it.”

Lol. Someone needs a holiday in Cambodia!

That’s the shame about the cyber era, articles like that aren’t even useful for lining the budgie cage with any more.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/02/18/covid-blackface-tv-chinas-racism-pro...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/27/china-and-i...

That's pretty funny and very naive, obviously written by someone with very little real life experience with other ethnic groups.

Indonesian's for example are often very racist towards very dark skinned people like Africans, even though my wife has or does work with people that are African, Papuan even an Aboriginal years ago and has even become very good friends with some of them her attitude towards dark skinned people in general is quite racist and she holds a fear of the men.

But maybe its not so much about skin colour as we also have Indonesian friends with very dark skin, its more just different groups of people that she has very stereo typed views about i guess because until living in Australia she only saw them on movies or documentaries, i guess it doesn't help dark skin in Indonesia (and most Asian countries) is considered unattractive and generally lower class, those that work low paid manual labour in the sun.

One of her Indonesian friends moved to Katherine and the way she talk's about Aboriginal people there on the phone to my wife couldn't be repeated here.

I also highly doubt the general views in many countries with very little to no multiculturalism like China for example would have as progressive views on the issue as people in western countries.

The authors of the article are racist. There is no if’s or buts about it. There are millions of Australians who are neither Caucasian nor do they have First Nations heritage, yet the authors specifically exclude them from any notion of being a “settler” or colonialism. The only explanation is that the authors hold sentiments of antipathy towards a section of society based on nothing more than the colour of their skin. This is definitive racism. It’s pretty shameful that the dangerous language of targeting a portion of the community for racial hate is considered acceptable anywhere, let alone a site which (laughingly) portrays itself as a place of critical academic thought.

The act of attributing negative characteristics to humans because of the amount of melanin in their dermal layer is medieval thinking and needs to be loudly rejected wherever it raises its head.

Martin Luther King would turn in his grave.

Most bizarre statement I`ve read.

for those who think we are going around in circles....I would like to think I have learnt so much about indigenous Australia's History both positive and negative.
When I come across interesting revisions of history , I post and comment with a link , as partly educating myself and anyone else who is interested in following Australia's changing History , and also experiencing the discovery of how our Blackfellas Art is considered as Worlds best....and their culture.......
For those who are negative here on SN towards the continuing Historic and Cultural discoveries......it still amazes me how you can be so negative on something , that you know little about , and don't really engage in finding out more.....
It's been a very interesting with Indo...and I can see why he has his opinions , and bias's......which is actually educational trying to work out why the right wingers have their opinions and why!
So I will continue to post the Good News on out Nations First Peoples.....probably will repeat a few times......but the great news is you have the choice to follow the link or not.....

OK lets get supa Arty.....this is Australian art....one of the most respected on the planet ,it's our Art too with a history of our country told by our artists...https://www.aboriginal-art-australia.com/aboriginal-art-library/the-stor...

Not exactly sure how understanding the importance of purpose, employment, education, health care and positive cultral change for any group of people is exactly right wing???

But i guess im happy to claim these ideals as conservative ideals.

BTW: Easily the biggest thing ive learnt historically from this thread was what Hutchy brought up the referendrum of 67, i had no idea the result was over 90% in favour of indigenous people, we are talking over 50 years ago, thats a result id expect today not way back then.

Brutus - very keen to hear more from you especially positive news .

As I have said IF my father abused my mother I would not like hearing more of the same examples as it would increase my pain and resentment .

I also like Aboriginal Art and own a piece called Medicine Leaves made by Gloria Petyarre ( Black and White ) . Lots on movement . Not sure who else considers the Art world's best but you sure can as it would hold special meaning I am sure .

brutus wrote:

for those who think we are going around in circles....I would like to think I have learnt so much about indigenous Australia's History both positive and negative.
When I come across interesting revisions of history , I post and comment with a link , as partly educating myself and anyone else who is interested in following Australia's changing History , and also experiencing the discovery of how our Blackfellas Art is considered as Worlds best....and their culture....

For those who are negative here on SN towards the continuing Historic and Cultural discoveries......it still amazes me how you can be so negative on something , that you know little about , and don't really engage in finding out more.....
It's been a very interesting with Indo...and I can see why he has his opinions , and bias's......which is actually educational trying to work out why the right wingers have their opinions and why!
So I will continue to post the Good News on out Nations First Peoples.....probably will repeat a few times......but the great news is you have the choice to follow the link or not.....

OK lets get supa Arty.....this is Australian art....one of the most respected on the planet ,it's our Art too with a history of our country told by our artists...https://www.aboriginal-art-australia.com/aboriginal-art-library/the-stor...

No I do not think you yourself are going around in circles Brutus. Your forward thinking is refreshing to say the least keep posting mate it will do us all good. More directed towards the closed minded types.

Indo..once upon a time there was and still are a group of people who had an importance of purpose ( called a culture!) were employed , were educated and had there own health care....then a group of colonial people came along and said .....forget what you knew , we are here to replace your culture with a superior one .....we will give you education/health care/a sense of purpose ( Make $'s) and employ you.....well so far that hasn't happened, in fact one might call it an abject failure.......
So Indo I don't see anything superior in Australia's colonial culture.....and as we are still dismantling the last remaining shreds of White Australia mentality.....I personally find this an exciting period in Australia's history as we discover new parts of our history everyday , which I see has no interest for you......c'est La Vie........that's why I am starting to think there is definitely a correlation between how many generations you and your family have lived here and to how you see Australia today!

indo-dreaming wrote:

Not exactly sure how understanding the importance of purpose, employment, education, health care and positive cultral change for any group of people is exactly right wing???
But i guess im happy to claim these ideals as conservative ideals.
BTW: Easily the biggest thing ive learnt historically from this thread was what Hutchy brought up the referendrum of 67, i had no idea the result was over 90% in favour of indigenous people, we are talking over 50 years ago, thats a result id expect today not way back then.

Great link Constance ,learn something everyday , hmm slavery ,"Event Coordinator Ross McCallum said the industrial action is “too important a story not to be part of our whole historical landscape”.

“It really is so significant in the sense that in 1946, Aboriginal people were not even counted as citizens or even people and the scheme of things and so they were used as slave labor,” he s

Constance B Gibson wrote:

Here's a pertinent recent piece from last week.

https://nit.com.au/perth-remembers-trailblazing-aboriginal-strikers/

Here’s one of my favourite all time bits of artwork which I’ve been meaning to share for a while but always forgot until i saw it today and decided to snap a photo. It’s a mural on a building from a place that’s pretty important to me.

What I love about it is the fact that it’s about unity. Obviously the two girls flying over the valley are metaphors for the shared cultures which have dominated Australia for the past couple of hundred years . Though I also like to think that the dual races represents the post racial world which is perhaps our shining achievement as modern humans. The idea that this is just two friends and their race is irrelevant is a beautiful sentiment and the best outcome for the globalised world we are living in. A world where intermarriage and racially -blind love will see humanity become a true melting pot.

I love the way the indigenous girl is casually guiding the Caucasian girl through the valley as though saying “Look at where we live. This was the home of my people but now it’s the home of OUR shared people.”

The ancient presence of the indigenous is represented by the face of the Dreamtime elder to the left, whilst the land itself-which has been here for an endless time before anyone got here and will be here long after we are all gone -is the majority of the picture. The wedge tail eagle accompanying the two girls speaks of the interrelationship between humans and the other living inhabitants. We are all journeying here together and we are all part of the same community.

I love the way the natural valley is the predominant feature by proportion, yet the town is shown as the inviting little built environment.

Anyway….not sure if you can zoom in on your device to check it out but I really love this work. Unity not division with our natural home as companion not mere canvass to smear with our superfluous human bullshit. It says that human frailty can let us down but hope and love for each other and the planet will always see us through.

Another thread ruined by fighting children.

Sigh.

OK, I've tried to clean things up, and have also re-opened comments.

Please keep personal attacks out of the comment.

Thanks.

It's amazing BD you started this thread to try and discuss a subject without getting insultingly personal .....it's kinda bizarre that people who do not actually know each other , and who are anonymous get so angry , then the insults start ....the topic becomes irrelevant , the egos surface and an emotional shit fight breaks out....where there can be no winners as you are all hidden behind your respective SN identities...and civil discussion disappears....

I personally think that this subject is really important , as the truth being brought forward about Australia's history concerns us all as the National Identity is being questioned and rebuilt ....I mean are we really happy with the Australia Scomo presented at the G20 and COP26......Australia cannot be trusted and Australia doesn't really care about Climate Change....we can do a lot better and will !!

bluediamond wrote:

Thanks Ben...appreciate it. Now go enjoy your weekend!!

Indo , I consider you very right wing as it has become very obvious that you have no interest in learning from the past.
With everything I have posted on here about Australias past history being rewritten.....debunking some of the myths and also discovering great Indigenous Australians who helped shape this country......a Cultural bounty in discovering the Worlds oldest Art.....art that today is treasured by Australians and still being understood.....
But you Indo say you have learnt nothing!
So you either knew it all or are not interested enough to learn.....but Hutchy 's post on the referendum of 67 is all you have learnt.....wow....

indo-dreaming wrote:

Not exactly sure how understanding the importance of purpose, employment, education, health care and positive cultral change for any group of people is exactly right wing???

But i guess im happy to claim these ideals as conservative ideals.

BTW: Easily the biggest thing ive learnt historically from this thread was what Hutchy brought up the referendrum of 67, i had no idea the result was over 90% in favour of indigenous people, we are talking over 50 years ago, thats a result id expect today not way back then.

I personally want to learn from the re-education around the history of Australia , warts and all . My only comment previously on this thread was about palm island and I said then I didn’t know the full circumstances. I was put in my place by someone else who did understand the circumstances and that’s what is needed. Education about these matters. Glad the threads back , well done SN.

@ Brutus

My boy has woken up, so im going outside with the kids to make the most of the day, will give you a reply later.

BTW. here's an isight into how i view things, written before thread reopened https://www.swellnet.com/comment/774430#comment-774430

brutus wrote:

Indo , I consider you very right wing as it has become very obvious that you have no interest in learning from the past.
With everything I have posted on here about Australias past history being rewritten.....debunking some of the myths and also discovering great Indigenous Australians who helped shape this country......a Cultural bounty in discovering the Worlds oldest Art.....art that today is treasured by Australians and still being understood.....
But you Indo say you have learnt nothing!
So you either knew it all or are not interested enough to learn.....but Hutchy 's post on the referendum of 67 is all you have learnt.....wow....

indo-dreaming wrote:

Not exactly sure how understanding the importance of purpose, employment, education, health care and positive cultral change for any group of people is exactly right wing???

But i guess im happy to claim these ideals as conservative ideals.

BTW: Easily the biggest thing ive learnt historically from this thread was what Hutchy brought up the referendrum of 67, i had no idea the result was over 90% in favour of indigenous people, we are talking over 50 years ago, thats a result id expect today not way back then.

hmm where do we go from here Brutus?

As ive said before personally i have always had a degree of interest in Aboriginal culture, as i was that kid that was always outdoors looking under rocks and logs in the bush i hated being inside, my grandparents were heavily into gems stones and gold detecting, so if we weren't at the beach we were in the bush, and like many kids in the 80s i was brought up on the whole Harry Buttler, Leyland brothers, World safari stuff, and my favourite Auntie was a teacher in the remote region near NT/WA border right up north, so she always came back with stories and indigenous books for Christmas etc

My interest now its still there to some degree, i still watch doccos that are related and occasionally go down some reading rabbit hole, but my interest have also changed my passion is more Indonesia im more interested in the different cultures of the region and the history and language .

But i 100% understand why you are so interested in Indigenous culture and history.

But people have different interest, that's life, you cant force everyone to have the passion and interest in Indigenous culture as you do, outside of being taught in class, its up to the individual in what interest they have in learning more.

Im sorry but your links havent really provided me anything i already havent known, the Hutchy one did, i had no idea of the result, that was a huge eye opener.

You mentioning dot painting being a more recent thing the other day, that was also something i didn't know.

BTW. I was thinking about this the other day when i said i practise some Indonesian cultural elements in my life, really thats not true, they are mostly Javanese cultural aspects, just one element in a bigger umbrella term of being Indonesian

Indigenous culture is the same we can use a blanket term to cover it all, but really the different groups and regions had different cultural elements including art, ceremony and off course the cliche things like didgeridoos that were only used in certain areas (i believe the northern regions of the country)

Anyway right wings cool but i prefer conservative.