The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:“Stuck in a colonial past” – the world condemns Australia’s “No” vote on The Voice https://michaelwest.com.au/stuck-in-a-colonial-past-the-world-condemns-a...
And the out touch media tripe continues.
Dutto and the boys have stressed the issue now is to find a way to improve the lot of FNP.
James McGrath has stated no one is gloating over the No victory and are now working towards positive outcomes for FNP.
And here we have Senator Hollie Hughes getting straight back to work.
Appears she didn't get the message.
The post ref 60 minutes interview with Dutton came with the same tone from the journalist that doomed the Voice.
Pretty much the following angle:
Journo
"You have been a very naughty boy"
Answer from Dutton....
Journo:
"But don't you realise you did not do what we told you to do"
Answer from Dutton.....
Journo:
"We are morally superior but you dared to question our views"
Answer from Dutton...
The tone went down a treat throughout the campaign. Really won over the public. People love being scolded and nagged.
ABC did it best though.
Good old Aunty is now like a nagging born again JW selling salvation on any topic that is labelled progressive.
burleigh wrote:Briggs still labelling every white Australian that didnt vote yes a racist. He has just been permanently removed from my playlist.
indo-dreaming wrote:
Shit time flys , its 2025 already #disinfo
frog wrote:The post ref 60 minutes interview with Dutton came with the same tone from the journalist that doomed the Voice.
Pretty much the following angle:
Journo
"You have been a very naughty boy"
Answer from Dutton....
Journo:
"But don't you realise you did not do what we told you to do"
Answer from Dutton.....
Journo:
"We are morally superior but you dared to question our views"
Answer from Dutton...The tone went down a treat throughout the campaign. Really won over the public. People love being scolded and nagged.
ABC did it best though.
Good old Aunty is now like a nagging born again JW selling salvation on any topic that is labelled progressive.
What about our public radio station, ABCs darling Triple J. Basically inciting violence by ‘sharpening the spears’:
‘…That sentiment has already been seen on the ABC’s youth radio station Triple J, which played protest song Treaty by Yothu Yindi for an hour on Sunday evening.
Presenter and musician Nooky took a strong stance on the program, telling Indigenous Australians that “we ain’t licking our wounds today, we’re sharpening our spears”.
“Last night was the most overt, unconcealed manifestation of racism I’ve ever experienced in my whole life,” he told listeners.
https://au.yahoo.com/news/wipeout-nat-slams-labor-voice-213300996.html
Don't fear Flollo.
As we know spears have proven to be futile against guns and the might of the British empire. ;-)
Wow, I thought since they won, that the "No" crew would be basking in their glorious victory, but no, on and on and on they whinge.
The stream of consciousness bloke is still stuck in identity politics, the eugenics bloke is still banging on about CRT and the evil ABC, the COVID obsessive is still obsessed and boycotting Briggs music, and the know-it-all, well, he knows it all.
Heaven help us if you'd lost...
They have abs of steel
https://giphy.com/gifs/season-3-the-simpsons-3x24-3orif8UAkN2dvt8MGA
Only Nominee for Voice addiction recovery Award
Dutto : Most Voting on the Voice
Dutto : Most Parliament time wasted on stupid Voice Questions
Dutto : Most Promised amount of Voice Reffos
Dutto : Most reneged promised Voice Reffos
Dutto : Most Voice Extortion & Tantrums
Dutto : Most Voice extortion demands for 20m 'I don't Know Vote No' Booklet Orders or else.
Dutto : Most Mandated Voice Voting Directives forced upon most people
Dutto : Most Manipulated Directives dished out to private Army of Don't Know Vote No Voters
Dutto : Most repetitive use of most annoying Voice Slogan.
Dutto : Most Voice Press Conferences with Annoying Voice Slogan Theme Tune
Dutto : Most paranoid Voice stuttering
Dutto : Most [000] Fake Emergency Warnings about the Voice
Dutto : Most Star Chamber secret Voice meetings
Dutto : Longest endless Roll of Voice Booth Wrap is still rolling out across the Continent.
Dutto : Most Voice Flip Flops
Dutto : Most whinging from any winner of anything ever won on Earth!
Reffo Bill : $449,999, 999.95c
Speech! Speech!
Voldemort : "I have a medical exemption that deprives me from inhaling the Voice Peace Vape...
That proves...I never enjoyed depriving Aborigines of wot they just overwhelmingly voted for...cough!"
You’re a gem
Dutto most votes to paperbag his ugly head so the Australian public don’t have to comfort there terrified children every time he appears on the offensive Murdoch media
TBB
Human right .
OUR old mates did enjoy the right to "Choose " our constitution .
We do enjoy the right to "Choose" to change it when necessary .
A Referendum crisis lol .
The Human Rights of KIDS in FNP is the Fucken Crisis !!!!!
IF we AGREE it needs to be changed , we go to a referee\dum !!!
My old mates thought it a good idea that everyone votes ( argue that between yourselves ) .
Your YES mates wanted this issue sorted in a REF . Why ? Not our ONLY ( or best imo ) way of doing it ?
As soon as the ( NO ) detail was released , us Old people knew this was DEAD in the Water .
After years of work we were asked to Vote for the Government to set up a committee to work out how to elect a Voice ( another committee ) , that could make important recommendations to a government that will consider them , but doesn't HAVE to listen . All on 1 ( or 20 ) page .
So easy the PM didn't need to read it .
If I wanted to get a big NO , the YES campaign was perfect .
Watching the whole process has been like watching a Train Wreck I knew was going to happen .
So the YES team decided to try the Monarchy Idea .
Guess what ?
Exactly the fucken same result .
Only Canberra voted for it .
The YES team stuffed it and guess what .
U guys blame everyone else , again .
By not doing your work we have wasted a Gazillion .
Walley thinks it was Imbeciles who were uneducated who have NFI .
You think it's the Educated who are imbeciles .
I think you both have NFI .
TBB - Watch the Mundine video IF you want know how most of us feel .
We are very angry that people are STILL just talking .
FNP deserve action , they are sick of Sorry's.
TBB
Your research and analysis is wonderful imo ( mostly :)
I am no Rocket Scientist .
I do have a score card that says 60/40 .
If you went anywhere in OZ ( other than ACT ) you could have grabbed any 10 people .
You had the chance to argue your case for months , U chose the formate .
When the 10 were asked to follow you , ONLY 4 stood up .
TBB - please stop abusing the 6 who were not convinced to follow you .
tbb is 100% neutral for over 60 years...has Zero followers, likes or influencer in any election...
This has nothing to do with any choice of Voting...
Largest, exhaustive & expensive constitutional convention for lowest ever participation in democracy.
That's the crisis...our Constitution collapsed in a heap...it's dead...try & wake it.
Blame tbb all yer like or follow whatever god or team...if ya think ya can turn the titanic around, please!
AEC data shows 1996 onward ...Howard's combatant politics tore up Constitutional convention.
The day Howard arrived was the day Voters started running...not an opinion but AEC fact...feel free!
Combatant Voice divisiveness turned Aussie voters away in droves...Constitution is dunny paper.
April 2023 : 10% won't + 9% unlikely to vote in Voice...writing on the wall.
12 July 2023 AEC ... After 27% refused to vote in Stinky filthy corrupt [L] ROBO By-election
Clear to all that Howard began the exploitation of Constitution as ROBO debt torched the fucker.
Tim Rogers: "Concern for low turnout > We're worried 'bout low Participation!"
https://www.aec.gov.au/media/2023/07-12.htm
tbb works freely to clear the rubbish in own neighbourhood or yours pops...just say...or nominate...done!
Here again today...airing out dirty rubbish on yer streets.
tbb works with locals, business, Cops whoever but Govts & councils refuse to visit our community!
Here's the whiteboard...let's rock & sort it right now...no lazy excuses...none else will accept blame.
18,089,941 = Voting Demographic
17,676,347 = Enrolled > 13,995,744 ~ Voted
6.1m = Pre Poll Votes
3,680,603 = Enrolled voters never voted + 413,594 = Not Enrolled
World sees Australia's compulsory Voting system
4,094,197 / 18,089,941 (22.63% Did not Vote in Voice)
As of now almost one quarter of Oz refuses to Vote.
Highest refusal in over a Century...declining rapidly each time a Pollie hates or robs another.
Media are concerned over $450m Reffo bill
1967 $2.50/vote (Now 10x larger for 20% less reward) 2023 $25 / vote
tbb has no bias on the matter & simply tabling AEC Voice policy that would return yer $450m
Roll up yer sleeves pop...Let's get crackin'...Hodad style!
Stands to reason that record Vote Turnout = Record AEC Fines windfall (Correct!)
Any dutiful conventional Govt mandates fines to wipe the $450m debt & make a little on the side...
ROBO AEC Fines...$20 not voting + $220 for refusing fine (Court) + $2,500 Lying on Pre Poll Votes.
Failing to Enroll is not ordinarily a crime & avoids a fine if one were to enroll when ordered...However!
Albo > AEC adopted mandatory Direct Enrolment = 413,594 not enrolled @ $20
ROBO Boycott = $8,271,880 + (Still Refuse to pay fine = $90,990,6800) > Total $99,262,560
3,680,603 Current enrolled failed to Vote = $20/voter > ( Refusal to pay) = $220 Court fees
[Don't Know Didn't Vote] = $73,612,060
[ None care & Refuse to yer dumb Pay Fine ] = $809,732,660.00
Total = $891,616,600
$990,879,160 = Running total of fully defiant non voters
Those Oz non compliant renegades right there just wiped both Albo + Dutto's Reffo bills!
PS : Note standard Casino Fine = $450m (Choose either!)
6.1m Pre Poll Voters : ROBO AEC Pre Poll letters could ask for proof or demand $1,525,000,000
Naughty Big Fat Liar Pre Pollers would alone pay for 3 reffos
Non Payment = 1 year prison Voice punishment = $902,190,000,000/yr cost of Reffo prisoners.
Note most Politicians voted early & if refused to pay > It's back to the Polls!
Yes of course, add that to their Bill.
There ya have it...if none have an excuse for voting early or Boycotting the Voice Reffo ...
If all uphold yer Constitutional Crisis then ya just polished a turd...
Govt Voice Reffo Fines = $2.5b or 5 x $450m reffos with inflation ...all sorted!
Summary : Who here loves the Constitution enough to proceed with AEC convention...
Can check in yer mail boxes to see if democracy still works...Fark!
No Green Ant bite...then we're as good as Zombies [ I don't know how to vote I don't Know ]
Well ya fuckin' better get yer Donkey Vote up to speed real fast ...coz that's how we roll in the shire!
Not tbb's conventional wisdom but the sound of all our voices dying...happy to share yer solution!
TBB old Hutchy is barking up the wrong tree and missing the obvious subtleties of your posts....which is what makes your posts so bloody good!
Pop Down wrote:TBB
Your research and analysis is wonderful imo ( mostly :)
I am no Rocket Scientist .
I do have a score card that says 60/40 .
If you went anywhere in OZ ( other than ACT ) you could have grabbed any 10 people .
You had the chance to argue your case for months , U chose the formate .
When the 10 were asked to follow you , ONLY 4 stood up .
TBB - please stop abusing the 6 who were not convinced to follow you .
Pop you’ve missed a few pertinent points in your posts.
The “Voice” was developed under LNP Government with bipartisan support.
Ken Wyatt discussed the matter with Indigenous communities all across the country.
FNP wanted Constitutional recognition and a Voice. The details of how that was to be set up is here:
https://voice.gov.au/ This is what Wyatt had worked for and was presented to the public.
It would then be up to the Parliament to put the Voice recommendations into action via legislation.
The ALP adopted the “Voice” as policy and it formed a part of their 2022 Election Platform. That is to say, they were committed to it.
In April this year Dutton decided the LNP was going to walk away from the Voice. Wyatt, and McMahon resigned from the LP and Gee resigned from the NP. Other LNP members stated they would still back the Voice.
Albanese and the ALP, who thought they had the full support of the LNP, had the rug pulled out from under them. They were committed to a referendum and had to continue. To walk away from their commitment would have created another avenue for the LNP to attack them.
Under Dutton, the LNP did everything they could to undermine the whole process, aided and abetted by much of the media. In reality, Dutton had no intention of ever proceeding with anything like the Voice. He walked out of the chamber during Rudd’s Apology: that defines the bloke. He has no concern at all for FNP. The LNP had been in Government for ten years and did nothing and were going to continue in the same way, despite all his promises to improve the lot of FNP. He changes his mind often: we’ll have a referendum but now we won’t etc etc. He never provided any detail on any of his thought bubbles.
And he has done himself no favours in all of this. He has shown himself to be erratic and now people are talking Price for PM. He has to be a first rate clown.
The ALP have made plenty of mistakes in their time but at least they are prepared to make an attempt. Albanese kept his promise and the LNP and their media made every effort to discredit and undermine him. But that has been the LNP’s sole purpose: create as much disruption as possible, confuse the electorate and spread a bit of bullshit. The LNP have rarely achieved any major social changes when in Government, unlike the ALP.
Well, they were standin' on the shore one day
Saw the white sails in the sun
Wasn't long before they felt the sting
White man, white law, white gun
Don't tell me that it's justified
'Cause somewhere, someone lied.
TBB, keep it up mate.
Love your posts: they are a bit cryptic at times but they make you think.
Great work.
Best Wishes.
Gents - It doesn't matter to me who put it up !
It's been going on so so long everyone is involved .
What matter was that the issue was turned political .
I wonder if it was done on purpose !!!
What matters is Australia doesn't get how referendums work or what they are supposed to do .
None of you have voted in a Yes winning ref .
No one seems to understand this critical point !!!
Politicians , Media , Qantas, AFL - all NFI !
What mattered to me was how BAD the Yes case was .
TBB - looks like U have crunched lots of numbers .
60/40 ! That is the only number that really counted .
U do seem very neutral , and this is an issue that is black or white .
Not time for French sitters .
Now is not the time for sour grapes or abuse !
I might start following a pollie . Mundine - lets start trying to reduce FNP suicide rates NOW .
A Salty Dog wrote:Pop Down wrote:TBB
Your research and analysis is wonderful imo ( mostly :)
I am no Rocket Scientist .
I do have a score card that says 60/40 .
If you went anywhere in OZ ( other than ACT ) you could have grabbed any 10 people .
You had the chance to argue your case for months , U chose the formate .
When the 10 were asked to follow you , ONLY 4 stood up .
TBB - please stop abusing the 6 who were not convinced to follow you .Pop you’ve missed a few pertinent points in your posts.
The “Voice” was developed under LNP Government with bipartisan support.
Ken Wyatt discussed the matter with Indigenous communities all across the country.
FNP wanted Constitutional recognition and a Voice. The details of how that was to be set up is here:
https://voice.gov.au/ This is what Wyatt had worked for and was presented to the public.
It would then be up to the Parliament to put the Voice recommendations into action via legislation.
The ALP adopted the “Voice” as policy and it formed a part of their 2022 Election Platform. That is to say, they were committed to it.
In April this year Dutton decided the LNP was going to walk away from the Voice. Wyatt, and McMahon resigned from the LP and Gee resigned from the NP. Other LNP members stated they would still back the Voice.
Albanese and the ALP, who thought they had the full support of the LNP, had the rug pulled out from under them. They were committed to a referendum and had to continue. To walk away from their commitment would have created another avenue for the LNP to attack them.
Under Dutton, the LNP did everything they could to undermine the whole process, aided and abetted by much of the media. In reality, Dutton had no intention of ever proceeding with anything like the Voice. He walked out of the chamber during Rudd’s Apology: that defines the bloke. He has no concern at all for FNP. The LNP had been in Government for ten years and did nothing and were going to continue in the same way, despite all his promises to improve the lot of FNP. He changes his mind often: we’ll have a referendum but now we won’t etc etc. He never provided any detail on any of his thought bubbles.
And he has done himself no favours in all of this. He has shown himself to be erratic and now people are talking Price for PM. He has to be a first rate clown.
The ALP have made plenty of mistakes in their time but at least they are prepared to make an attempt. Albanese kept his promise and the LNP and their media made every effort to discredit and undermine him. But that has been the LNP’s sole purpose: create as much disruption as possible, confuse the electorate and spread a bit of bullshit. The LNP have rarely achieved any major social changes when in Government, unlike the ALP.
Well, they were standin' on the shore one day
Saw the white sails in the sun
Wasn't long before they felt the sting
White man, white law, white gun
Don't tell me that it's justified
'Cause somewhere, someone lied.
Very good post with factual statements .
I don't care why people make their own decisions .
Their business .
I know that Every party , every culture , every IQ level , every age had both YES and No voters .
A French Sitter?
Or shitter? ;-P
https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/t_share/MTc0MTMxMTE4NjU4ODIzN...
I am crap at math and speiling .
There are way too many politicians and Parties , all over the world , that have made an art of making it LOOK like they are prepared to attempt REAL change . Eg Saying sorry .
When I did deeper , hoping to find real WORK that will give Change a Chance , I find , as in this case , a One page document , and weep , again .
Pop Down wrote:I am crap at math and speiling .
There are way too many politicians and Parties , all over the world , that have made an art of making it LOOK like they are prepared to attempt REAL change . Eg Saying sorry .
When I did deeper , hoping to find real WORK that will give Change a Chance , I find , as in this case , a One page document , and weep , again .
Saying Sorry was step along the path to "The Voice".
It was real and was the ALP and Rudd's doing.
Dutton walked out on it. You could classify him as a non achiever.
The ALP are the only party to maintain a long term ongoing commitment to FNP.
Again it's obvious you didn't read "The Voice".
Sorry to say Pop, but it appears you're another victim of LNP bullshit propaganda.
Salty
I was hoping for positive changes or at least some improvement with FNP suicide rates , incarceration rates , Truancy rates , employment rates , women abuse rates etc after 1967 and after Sorry .
They have got progressively worse .
This is OUR national wound that MUST be healed , URGENTLY !
When would have a Voice remedy be available to be used ? 2,3 4 years ?
Would their Doctors opinion ,work ( I would be happy to try anything !!! )?
How many patients have died waiting ?
It's not the LNP's fault there was NO detail .
I looked at the detail on picking the 24 delegates . A good number with a proportional coverage of Australia .
And that was it , no details of committed selection procedures . Another fucken Committee needs to do some work .
I hate Committees !!!
What will be the Voice's sphere of Influence ?
A fair question in my opinion .
Answer . FNP stuff that we don't have to listen to , if we don't want to . Oh My Stars!!
Another committee ?
The basic work was not done .
The work that was done , gets a D- from me , with a comment "Great Idea - but you only Scratched the Surface ( and it's bleeding ) " .
As Hilary Clinton would say - Deplorable !
I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .
Voice washerupperer!
75% Aboriginals screamed for their Voice to be heard!
60% of Non Indigenous shouted STFU...or did they?
Well it sure sounded like that...
Perhaps wot we think we know may not ring true!
Please Explain : Record low Reffo turn out just crossed the threshold into [YES < ? > NO]
tbb will paint a scenario were [NO] presents as the obvious Victor but few bother to check.
For the sake of ramping the [NO] Vote to highest %...tbb will include himself / family / friends.
* [No] Voters (Openly declared Non Racist Voters) Much like tbb's Family!
+ [Don't know Vote No Voters] Includes tbb's friends & neighbours
+ [Donkey Voters draw Dick pics on Voice Paper] No Voice supporter does this...counts as [No]
+ [ Not enrolled for Voice ] Doesn't give a fuck about Aborigines...counts as [No]...sounds like tbb?
[NO] Combo total = 8,969,737 Votes
Pause :
One would automatically assume that's over the top bias toward NO camp.
tbb is exhibiting this bias to prove that 20% Voting withdrawal denies either YES/NO Mandate.
Same reason you wouldn't dream of playing with a loser [2/3] Bingo card
tbb recently shared [1/2] [3/4] Bingo cards win more often than [2/3] Bingo Card.
Still wanna play?
* [YES] Voters (Swear they're not out to Divide [NO] Camp)
+ Unsure Voters that never fell for the [Don't Know Vote No] Most likely group leaning towards [YES]
That's it...that's yer [YES] A Team... sounds like a rather withdrawn timid team of wishful do-gooders.
[YES] Dorky Duo Total = 9,120,204 Votes
AEC: Oz 100% Electorate 18,089,941 > Mass Bully Mob [NO] 49.58% (vs) Dorky Duo [YES] 50.42%
Reason for this anomaly...
[NO] Openly thru-out campaign claimed their % of undecided Voters...
[YES] left overs of Undecided voters that [NO] never claimed...default as [I don't know > (Other)]
Born from the fact that Voting is Compulsory & Parliament / GG need a result...
(There is no informal...it's either Yes or No!) No exhausted their claim > Defaults to [yes] Case...
tbb is sharing how Oz 20%+[?] shifts power from Voting Booth to High Court Legal interpretation.
This has been predicted if Constitution can't resolve a majority [?] "Margin" above a winning margin!
Yes! For sure...tbb is presenting the Voice as a warning shot over the bow of Constitution...
AEC : Concerned @ 27% boycott...they know this shit...hence the warning!
70% Turn out Election will likely trigger a High Court challenge from a minority % party!
Given that Unclaimed 30% presents as Highest % Power Base in next Multi Party Fed Election...
Meaning all Major parties are equally minority...the first to claim the non vote majority runs Oz.
The first or most keenest Party to mount top Legal Eagles will win the next and after Elections.
Green Ant Bully : Non voters just bulldozed Indies as fastest growing Oz power base
Any Party not bulking up Legal Eagles to win Non Voter majority power has lost all next elections.
Lawyers will be called in to Overrule all Election counts from this Reffo on...
In fact tbb thinks many parties will run tests over his Reffo for such reason.
tbb exampled how easy that is by presenting a cheap base level convincing test case...
Repeating...change yer Constitution before the High Court does it for you!
From today on, Pollie's own Vote base shrinks as less worth than rising majority non voters...well durr!"
Summary : Current Constitution is about to award power to non voters over democratic electorate...
Watch 'n' weep as yer 10 commandments crumble in yer hands as it is right now.
As a non voter...tbb don't have any duty to inform the electorate that this will happen & soon!
Like a ripe Apple sitting there...just outta reach...Climb > Ladder > Drone to reach it!
Don't expect any to understand wot tbb is on about...it hardly matters as you'll soon find out!
Here's where Australia is Now...turn on yer Telly...see all that Trump USA Court shit...
Bend over...open wide...inserting the nozzle for yer Constitutional Power Vacuum!
Yeah! Now ya get it...like Menzies & Johnnie sucking Aboriginal Blood on their death beds!
None see the flaws in our constitution until they get the wake up call...That's exactly what this is!
Get yerself a Lawyer son...better get a real good one!
truebluebasher wrote:18,089,941 = Voting Demographic
17,676,347 = Enrolled > 13,995,744 ~ Voted
6.1m = Pre Poll Votes3,680,603 = Enrolled voters never voted + 413,594 = Not Enrolled
World sees Australia's compulsory Voting system
4,094,197 / 18,089,941 (22.63% Did not Vote in Voice)
As of now almost one quarter of Oz refuses to Vote.
Highest refusal in over a Century...declining rapidly each time a Pollie hates or robs another.
That's remarkable TBB. I know in elections there's about a 7% informal vote (perhaps including animal pictures in the most recent Vic election) - but are we looking at 22% just not voting in a normal election. Because if we add them to informal, we have a new strong political party, ready to do a deal to govern in a minority government of 'who cares?'.
TBB
What are U up 2 ? Going somewhere ?
I know I can trust your numbers but U are getting them mixed up .
U now tell us ( after the ref ) 75% of NFP screamed at us ( good ) that they want their Voice heard .
I am surprised it is not 100% !
60% of ALL Australians ( including FNP ) NEVER said STFU to that !
Don't go , we need U !
Pop Down wrote:Salty
I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .
The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.
I really hope , and believe sr , that U will be very pleasantly surprised by how THIS generation will be judged .
Especially , due to my daughters , I know ( a tiny bit ) what our young adults do and think .
They are soooo much smarter than I was , and resilient .
Can U imagine how many of them have had their attention brought to this issue .
That is fantastic for the cause but so upsetting for them to see the FNP social problems .
They won't sit back and do nothing .
Not down here , anyway .
I am lucky to have a reasonably politically diverse and eclectic group of family and friends .
In my family , in my network , Yes and No voters , we are , generally , unhappy ( I am furious ) how this Referendum was political , from start to finish .
However , we will do something when things are not right .
We are Australians .
I am very proud of my daughters and , most , Australians , sr :)
My daughters are also street smart , they stopped listening to me when they turned 7 .
I might go outback .
Agreed Pops, the upcoming generation will be the ones to make some real change.
Could be a few years off though.
Great to hear that about your daughters, you sound very proud.
Agree on the outback too! Space is always great for a deep breath.
@TBB,
I think I understood what you were posting above, I read it a couple of times but maybe I got what you were saying wrong, if so please ignore what I'm about to say and tell me what I misinterpreted. You can be very cryptic at times, but I like that.
We operate under a preferential first past the post system, no matter how many show up to vote.
Assuming there is a 30% or even larger non turnout, any petitioner to the High Court sitting as the Court of Disputed Returns could not "claim" those (non) votes by simply being first to do so. They aren't votes that can be counted by anyone to form a majority, they are not part of the count.
Both the referendum and the marriage plebiscite got large no shows, for various reasons, but even in the very unlikely scenario of a similar no show % at a federal election our system does not make it possible for a candidate or party to just get a lawyer son and petition the Court of Disputed Returns to claim those votes or challenge the validity of the result, it would be dismissed, even if the lawyer was a real good one. Compulsory voting doesn't mean those who don't vote can be counted, anywhere, by anyone, to make up a majority or challenge a count.
The Constitution is sound in this respect.
southernraw wrote:Pop Down wrote:Salty
I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.
Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.
Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.
Dead right Jacqui
— jongkokerer (@jongkokerer) October 17, 2023
Not only that, they were so arrogant it'd get up, now they're looking very deer in the headlights about where to now...
With a dose of burnt blackfella goodwill, and a divided nation on top
It's a bloody disaster!
indo-dreaming wrote:southernraw wrote:Pop Down wrote:Salty
I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.
Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.
So why did Wyatt, McMahon and Gee resign?
Could it be that Dutton walked back on his word and shit in everyones face.
Get real mate.
Can someone please explain to me why the Labour Government voted down a Royal Commission into Ciild Sexual Abuse in Indigenous Communities???
— Alec Doomadgee (@alecdoomadgee) October 18, 2023
I’ll be happy to be involved leading this investigation!! I’ll get a team together!!@nyunggai @JNampijinpa 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️ pic.twitter.com/bF1B474IQ7
Sypkan,
It was put up by Jacinta Price as a political grandstand. You could hardly expect Labor to go along with it.
There was a full extensive Royal Commission into this issue five years ago, maybe your twits and "our future PM", you know, the woman, who is indigenous, who has been in Parliament five minutes, who sits in the Senate, who failed dismally in her attempt at a House seat, who isn't even a Nat, but is a CNP member, who's got as much hope of becoming PM as Indo does understanding that you call more than one activist "activists"; maybe she could ask her own side of politics what they did with the recommendations from that Royal Commission, the one they commissioned. (Hint: Fuck All).
As you know, I'm no fan of Albo and Labor do (or don't do) plenty that I don't necessarily agree with, but this was the correct political call for them.
Maybe the issue could have been part of the work the Voice could have contributed to, you know, giving some proprietorship to the FNP to deal with their own problems, but alas.
Seems Jacinta and Warren would prefer another group of whitefellas to tell blaks what they recommend the solution to be. Maybe they could just ask Gina Rinehart what to do.
adam12 - U hit the nail on the head .
The PM went to a Feral Election with this as a major policy .
Got elected .
Believed he had a mandate .
The polls were positive .
Australians wanted change .
Honoured the promise .
This part ( and nearly everything before it ) was Political, from start to finish .
It lost 60/40 , but it was the correct political call , unfortunately .
A lesson for everyone . No party should promise a referendum
on ANYTHING , ever again ,
A Salty Dog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:southernraw wrote:Pop Down wrote:Salty
I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.
Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.
So why did Wyatt, McMahon and Gee resign?
Could it be that Dutton walked back on his word and shit in everyones face.
Get real mate.
LNP got the ball rolling on it all like you said in above post but they also rejected it when it all came back hence why LNP never went ahead with the voice.
I mean when Turnball rejects it then no other LNP government is going to support it, im still confused why Turnball was in the LNP and not Labor to start with..
And lets be real Albo fucked up big time, he rushed thing's totally over confident i expect because of the strong result of the same sex marriage thing and just the whole teal woke thing, ad he was just to keen for his big legacy moment.
He should have put the voice in policy first before taking it to a referendum as advised by Noel, Shorten & others, if he had and it still failed it would still be in policy right now, although chance's of it success would have increased greatly.
Now he cant even put it in policy as if he did he risk looking like he is ignoring the Australian people's wishes, even though it wasn't the voice as such we were voting against.
Secondly the activist and Albo got greedy going for voice and recognition as one..
If it was a two part question 1, Recognition 2.Voice even if Voice still failed Recognition would have gotten up.
Yeah i know the excuse is this is what the Aboriginal people wanted (or at least the hand picked bias group of Aboriginal people) but thats not how life works, you don't always get everything you want, you need to compromise especially in politics. (and yes its still politics)
So right now if they were smart they could have had the voice in policy and recognition in the constitution, but they got greedy rolled the dice and lost on it all.
To me thats karma, i say sucked in Albo and sucked in to the activist, you deserve what you got for being greedy over confident and stupid.
And the bonus we wont have a referendum on being a republic again under this government or any other any time soon and Albo has even helped make Jacinta become a household name and gained huge support.
Humble, non gloating, but incessant gentleman aren’t you Indo. And you think it’s your stance or political beliefs that puts people off.
indo-dreaming wrote:southernraw wrote:Pop Down wrote:Salty
I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.
Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.
Make of it what you will Indo, you and i are at polar opposites of our thinking and belief structure, which is fine.
Time will tell and i have no doubt it will be damning.
Already the world is taking notice of what Australia refuses to do for it's first nations people, and that's just within the first few days of the result.
While you can sleep easy with this on your conscience, it's not something i can have peace in my heart with.
The majority of Australians may have voted that way, but in my little part of the world and other nearby surfing communities in WA, the majority vote went with the yes camp.
Pat yourself on the back if you will for being a member of the majority, but personally, if i were in your shoes i'd be questioning of who the majority actually are that you proudly proclaim to belong to, and what they represent....the best interests of Australia as a whole, or the best interests for themselves.
I think the answer is glaringly obvious, you only have to look at the excuses used to cover up for peoples real agendas....i.e: "i don't trust the government after covid'...when this was clearly never a government driven movement to begin with(nor had anything to do with covid), but a begging of sorts from the indigenous community for recognition.
Hijacked by politics, yes, as soon as LNP pulled the rug out from the bipartisan support, it became a political mess, but this was not the foundation of where this movement came from.
This fact alone was easy enough to research and get to the bottom of but the No anti government crowd, the vote no if you don't know crowd, refused to go back to the actual core of the request which came from indigenous people.
Remember the big deal the No crowd made about how to vote. How to write fucking Yes or No? As if it was confusing. When i voted i even had it clearly explained to me verbally and shown visually. But anything to try to stop this vote getting through...
I think if you really asked a large percentage of Australians who voted No what their real thoughts were, it would be 'i don't trust indigenous people to have any power'.
It's his quaint way of announcing things he thinks might be right @seeds. I have come to understand it is just what he does. Treat any post as a draft-in-progress. I truly think he is getting better at tempering things he thinks..
It’s a Dutch thing. Oops that’s probably racist.
Oh, no, that's not racist. The Dutch stereotype whole countries.
indo-dreaming wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:southernraw wrote:Pop Down wrote:Salty
I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.
Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.
So why did Wyatt, McMahon and Gee resign?
Could it be that Dutton walked back on his word and shit in everyones face.
Get real mate.
Yeah i know the excuse is this is what the Aboriginal people wanted (or at least the hand picked bias group of Aboriginal people) but thats not how life works, you don't always get everything you want, you need to compromise especially in politics. (and yes its still politics)
.
Well yeah, unless you're part of the white settler colony, then you kinda do get everything you want, a voice, recognition, even a whole bloody country just for you!
Haha
Here’s a funny clip about stereotypes that even Indo will laugh at.
southernraw wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:A Salty Dog wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:southernraw wrote:Pop Down wrote:Salty
I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.
Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.
So why did Wyatt, McMahon and Gee resign?
Could it be that Dutton walked back on his word and shit in everyones face.
Get real mate.
Yeah i know the excuse is this is what the Aboriginal people wanted (or at least the hand picked bias group of Aboriginal people) but thats not how life works, you don't always get everything you want, you need to compromise especially in politics. (and yes its still politics)
.Well yeah, unless your part of the white settler colony, then you kinda do get everything you want, a voice, recognition, even a whole bloody country just for you!
Palestine 1948(and before)and ongoing. Anyone? Anyone?
Careful Seeds. Your comment will get swiftly delivered to it's correct thread!! :-P
But yes, exactly.
@Indo
"I mean when Turnball rejects it then no other LNP government is going to support it, im still confused why Turnball was in the LNP and not Labor to start with.."
This Turnball character sounds interesting.
He's in the LNP? I've not heard of him.
They did have a leader once with a similar name, but surely you can't be coming on to this forum espousing your political wisdom and not even know how the man's name is spelt, you'd just be making a fucking idiot of yourself doing that, because that guy was a former PM who's been in public life in Australia for decades and you would have seen his name in print thousands of times, so it can't be him. So who is Turnball?
Maybe he is one of those American prime ministers you were talking about the other day?
Fuck you're funny Indo.
You give me a good laugh, pretty much daily.
Thanks for that.
It’s written in the 3rd Testicle. Even I know that.
.
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28