The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

bluediamond started the topic in

Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

seeds Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:12pm

Haha had a laugh at that

Pop Down Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:16pm

I remember a Turnball !
Was a PM , not sure who elected him .
His real name was Turnbull(shit) and he had no Balls !
A big talking Lawyer type from Sydney ( Packer put him on the map ) .
Never followed through on any idea that I can remember .
Helped us keep the monarchy , apparently .
Haven't heard of him for years .
Would be taking a selfie with someone famous for sure .
I don't think anyone likes him anymore .
Wouldn't,t worry him .
He likes himself enough for everybody .

indo-dreaming Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:16pm

seeds wrote:
southernraw wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
A Salty Dog wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
southernraw wrote:
Pop Down wrote:
Salty

I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .

The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.

Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.

Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.

So why did Wyatt, McMahon and Gee resign?

Could it be that Dutton walked back on his word and shit in everyones face.

Get real mate.

Yeah i know the excuse is this is what the Aboriginal people wanted (or at least the hand picked bias group of Aboriginal people) but thats not how life works, you don't always get everything you want, you need to compromise especially in politics. (and yes its still politics)
.

Well yeah, unless your part of the white settler colony, then you kinda do get everything you want, a voice, recognition, even a whole bloody country just for you!

Palestine 1948(and before)and ongoing. Anyone? Anyone?

Not sure what your point is but if you want to compare the two the Jews are the better comparison to the indigenous Australians, the Jews were in Israel thousand's of years before Palestine was even a thing, even today in Israel they dig up Jewish coins that are over 2,000 years old.

indo-dreaming Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:18pm

@southernraw

Im very happy who i stand alongside with my No vote 99.9% of regional areas even the burbs, the majority real everyday Aussies.

While look at the electorates that voted Yes 99% are affluent areas, mostly inner city areas and the Canberra bubble, thats not a crowd i want to stand beside.

A Salty Dog Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:19pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
A Salty Dog wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
southernraw wrote:
Pop Down wrote:
Salty

I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .

The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.

Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.

Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.

So why did Wyatt, McMahon and Gee resign?

Could it be that Dutton walked back on his word and shit in everyones face.

Get real mate.

LNP got the ball rolling on it all like you said in above post but they also rejected it when it all came back hence why LNP never went ahead with the voice.

I mean when Turnball rejects it then no other LNP government is going to support it, im still confused why Turnball was in the LNP and not Labor to start with..

And lets be real Albo fucked up big time, he rushed thing's totally over confident i expect because of the strong result of the same sex marriage thing and just the whole teal woke thing, ad he was just to keen for his big legacy moment.

He should have put the voice in policy first before taking it to a referendum as advised by Noel, Shorten & others, if he had and it still failed it would still be in policy right now, although chance's of it success would have increased greatly.

Now he cant even put it in policy as if he did he risk looking like he is ignoring the Australian people's wishes, even though it wasn't the voice as such we were voting against.

Secondly the activist and Albo got greedy going for voice and recognition as one..

If it was a two part question 1, Recognition 2.Voice even if Voice still failed Recognition would have gotten up.

Yeah i know the excuse is this is what the Aboriginal people wanted (or at least the hand picked bias group of Aboriginal people) but thats not how life works, you don't always get everything you want, you need to compromise especially in politics. (and yes its still politics)

So right now if they were smart they could have had the voice in policy and recognition in the constitution, but they got greedy rolled the dice and lost on it all.

To me thats karma, i say sucked in Albo and sucked in to the activist, you deserve what you got for being greedy over confident and stupid.

And the bonus we wont have a referendum on being a republic again under this government or any other any time soon and Albo has even helped make Jacinta become a household name and gained huge support.

Indo,

Do you understand there is a difference between an opinion and wilful ignorance?

Cheers

southernraw Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:26pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
@southernraw

Im very happy who i stand alongside with my No vote 99.9% of regional areas even the burbs, the majority real everyday Aussies.

While look at the electorates that voted Yes 99% are affluent areas, mostly inner city areas and the Canberra bubble, thats not a crowd i want to stand beside.

Don't worry Indo, i'd never try to convince you otherwise.
From past experience, that would be an exercise in futility.
Fark worlds gone pretty crazy. Like everyone here, I just want people to be happy and not suffering.

indo-dreaming Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:29pm

@A Salty Dog

Great no proper argument against my points so you play that card instead..

Anyway Albo fucked up and im glad he did.

The alternative smarter approach at the very least means he could have still had the Voice in policy even if failed getting into the constitution and very highly likely had gotten recognition up.

Surely you cant disagree with this?

seeds Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:32pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
seeds wrote:
southernraw wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
A Salty Dog wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
southernraw wrote:
Pop Down wrote:
Salty

I listen to PBS and don't read or watch any Mainstream Media . If the LNP got me , their Outdoor ads must have been very good .
As I said earlier , I made up my mind before the LNP decided No , I hate pollies , don't think it was a political question and believe referendums should not be used for this purpose .

The referendum was a request of a large group of Indigenous leaders from all around the country as part of the Uluru statement from the heart. The reason they chose to put the question to the Australian public to decide was so to avoid politicians deciding their fate, once again for them. There can be no referendum though without the government being the active conduit to make it happen.
But what does it matter now anyway. It's not going to happen again for a long time, and we can moan all we like but the damage is done. Australia really fucked up on this one and the ramifications won't be obvious for a while, but they'll be far reaching over the course of time.
A generation of Aussies that history will judge very poorly.

Australia didnt fuck up anything, the right decision is the one the majority of Australians make, anything else is just opinion.

Only ones that fucked up is the activist and Albo, poorly prepared, over confindent, greedy and total read the room wrong.

So why did Wyatt, McMahon and Gee resign?

Could it be that Dutton walked back on his word and shit in everyones face.

Get real mate.

Yeah i know the excuse is this is what the Aboriginal people wanted (or at least the hand picked bias group of Aboriginal people) but thats not how life works, you don't always get everything you want, you need to compromise especially in politics. (and yes its still politics)
.

Well yeah, unless your part of the white settler colony, then you kinda do get everything you want, a voice, recognition, even a whole bloody country just for you!

Palestine 1948(and before)and ongoing. Anyone? Anyone?

Not sure what your point is but if you want to compare the two the Jews are the better comparison to the indigenous Australians, the Jews were in Israel thousand's of years before Palestine was even a thing, even today in Israel they dig up Jewish coins that are over 2,000 years old.

Those pesky Palestinians and their ancestors just appeared recently? And it’s got nothing to do with religion.

Jelly Flater Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:27pm

Haha ;)

‘the Jews were in Israel thousand's of years before Palestine was even a thing’

Translation (for those residing in reality and with an accurate understanding of history) :

The jews were in palestine thousands of years before israel was even a thing… (israel was created in 1948)

https://m.

&pp=ygUJaG9tZXIgZG9o

southernraw Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:36pm

indo-dreaming Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:37pm

Jelly you can have an opinion but you cant rewrite history there is a whole history before the 19th century and the name and kingdom of Israel and Judah of which Jews are named after predates Islam itself

Anyway admins are going to get shitty if we bring this stuff here, so better you take your love for jihad, terrorism and antisemitic stuff to the back room where it belongs.

Hiccups Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:48pm

Turnball was leg spinner, yeah?

adam12 Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:52pm

@Hiccups
"Turnball was leg spinner, yeah?"

Haha.
I thought it was one of those bedroom moves that delays orgasm.

A Salty Dog Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 9:53pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
@A Salty Dog

Great no proper argument against my points so you play that card instead..

Anyway Albo fucked up and im glad he did.

The alternative smarter approach at the very least means he could have still had the Voice in policy even if failed getting into the constitution and very highly likely had gotten recognition up.

Surely you cant disagree with this?

You would have to have Wyatt and the FNP agree to that.

The Voice as linked in my post at 12.46pm explains what the FNP wanted.

The ALP adopted it as policy, and Albo kept his promise, unlike the LNP.

You also don't appear to understand the function of our Constitution.

It states what you can do and who can do it. The Separation and Division of Powers I believe it’s called.

It’s a framework upon which the legislation is built.

The reference to taxation in the Constitution for example, is about three lines but the legislation comprises hundred of volumes. Those who wrote the Constitution had no idea of what taxation would entail: it was up to the politicians to sort that out.

The FNP wanted the Voice enshrined in the Constitution. Once that is done the Parliament would invoke the necessary legislation regarding composition etc. And that process would include Dutton and all his LNP members.

But it’s gone forever, I’d say thanks to an arrogant clown hell bent on disruption.

Dutton has lost all credibility now, Price may well be their next PM in about 2045.

southernraw Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:08pm

adam12 wrote:
@Hiccups
"Turnball was leg spinner, yeah?"

Haha.
I thought it was one of those bedroom moves that delays orgasm.

Haha! Hilarious @hiccups and @adam12.
Howard was pretty good at 'turning' the ball too.
Must be a LNP thing.
Bunch of fucken spinners.

Never let us forget this moment of national shame.

Pop Down Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:10pm

OMG
It was a fix , I think .
Watched Parliament .
By giving the Australian electorate no real questions , like Treaty or reparations , in the referendum , the ALP can act like nothing happened .
They honoured their promise , can say they had a go , NOT piss anyone off as they can leave everything on the table and do no work .
Perfect !
Gosh , politics is very dirty but this surprises even me .
I thought the campaign was Unbelievably bad !

Pop Down Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:15pm

Jelly Flater Wednesday, 18 Oct 2023 at 11:16pm

“ Jelly you can have an opinion but you cant rewrite history there is a whole history before the 19th century and the name and kingdom of Israel and Judah of which Jews are named after predates Islam itself

Anyway admins are going to get shitty if we bring this stuff here, so better you take your love for jihad, terrorism and antisemitic stuff to the back room where it belongs.”

Haha fark ;)
So… I can’t rewrite history (when I actually wasn’t)… yet you did exactly that in your first comment about a topic unrelated to this thread ;);)

Um. Ok then…

- and then you further mention stuff like islam and accuse me of loving jihad and terrorism and antisemitism (which I also don’t and are also all topics unrelated to this thread) and then advise me to take this stuff to the back room ? ;);)

You’re farkn living at well above rent price in the back room of your own dilapidated head, pretending you think you’re on the board whilst being stuck on a duck egg.

At least you try… and here, id appears bout the 18 sec mark in… kind of wants to know up from down… but… just …doesn’t… get it ;)

- not even the bit 30 - 55secs in… (relative to this thread)
Lots of ‘historical residue’ for the keeper ;)

https://m.

burleigh Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 11:36am

Maybe getting Briggs as the poster boy of the yes campaign wasn't a great idea after all.

I wish this beauty from 4 years ago got dragged up from the gutter when he was labelling everyone that votes no a racist.

?si=14zWu-XAEeiHb_GG

gsco Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 12:03pm

FMD Chomsky and Foucault, two of the biggest western Marxists of all time who have done so much damage to the west, academia, social sciences, politics, culture, social and cultural cohesion, etc.

Foucault is very much responsible for the decaying and white anting of western culture and academia into western Marxist postmodernism, critical race theory and nihilism, and for the current state of the US identity politics and social justice activism which is now spilling over into Australia and being enthusiastically taken onboard as the central policy objectives of the ALP.

Both are complete disgraces to humanity.

Jelly Flater Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 12:16pm

Haha ;)

So sensitive ;);)

Western foreign policy failure and internal political hypocrisy might be a bit more responsible for the decay of culture etc…

- and what have you done for humanity exactly ? ;)

Oh… socialist paranoid van life extraordinaire / global event commentator / keyboard warrior / try hard intellectual economic wizard / identity politics detective / imaginary anti marxist crusader / all round knob head ;)

Just… just… disssgwaceful aaaargh !
Everyone watch out !! Z commies are taking ova (your brain) !

Hiccups Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 1:08pm

burleigh wrote:
Maybe getting Briggs as the poster boy of the yes campaign wasn't a great idea after all.

I wish this beauty from 4 years ago got dragged up from the gutter when he was labelling everyone that votes no a racist.

https://youtu.be/INRY_MJkvs4?si=14zWu-XAEeiHb_GG

Love to hear what you think is wrong with this video, fish-food. I'm sure Briggs would be happy it's getting some extra views thanks to you.

Pop Down Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 2:01pm

cups

Not sure what you define as West or when it started .

Failed foreign policy started , I thought , in Mesopotamia , a few thousand years ago .
Also Internal Political hypocrisy at the same bloody time .
Amazing coincidence .

Some family squabble , probably .

Supafreak Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 6:12pm

The ongoing saga of Aboriginal victims of non Aboriginal financial misappropriation from programmes designed to help Aboriginal people

Northern Territory man Johannes Joubert, 46, was sentenced to seven years in prison after pleading guilty to stealing $780,000 from several Aboriginal organisations while working as a bookkeeper for private accounting firm Centre Accounting Services (CAS) in Alice Springs. https://x.com/blakandblack/status/1714801137801703851?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe...

Pop Down Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 6:53pm

freaky
This stuff always happens when BIG money is available ( people view governments as a blank cheque ) .
I really hope the dh ONLY got 7 years , as he could pay all the 780k back .

I won't look at the link , as I get the gist .

More leeches are attaching and some FNP are getting very worried about it .
Fair enough imo .
I feel terrible that they were conned like this .
This should not happen in Financial normalness ( this is the most regulated part ) .
This is Big money and regulators will be involved .

I hate Box tickers to , more leeches imo .

Gosh , someone will end up having to carry a card that says they are FNP or not .
I will carry one , I have a wallet . I am a NO .

burleigh Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 7:01pm

Hiccups wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Maybe getting Briggs as the poster boy of the yes campaign wasn't a great idea after all.

I wish this beauty from 4 years ago got dragged up from the gutter when he was labelling everyone that votes no a racist.

https://youtu.be/INRY_MJkvs4?si=14zWu-XAEeiHb_GG

Love to hear what you think is wrong with this video, fish-food. I'm sure Briggs would be happy it's getting some extra views thanks to you.

He's an angry man, with views that will encourage anger. Why would you give him a voice with anger like that?

He's not trying to work together with white and blak Australia. He is dividing.

southernraw Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 7:20pm

Pop Down wrote:
freaky
.

Gosh , someone will end up having to carry a card that says they are FNP or not .
I will carry one , I have a wallet . I am a NO .

@popdown, apologies but i'm struggling to understand these last few lines.
Could you explain it a little clearer please?

Supafreak Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 7:31pm

burleigh wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Maybe getting Briggs as the poster boy of the yes campaign wasn't a great idea after all.

I wish this beauty from 4 years ago got dragged up from the gutter when he was labelling everyone that votes no a racist.

https://youtu.be/INRY_MJkvs4?si=14zWu-XAEeiHb_GG

Love to hear what you think is wrong with this video, fish-food. I'm sure Briggs would be happy it's getting some extra views thanks to you.

He's an angry man, with views that will encourage anger. Why would you give him a voice with anger like that?

He's not trying to work together with white and blak Australia. He is dividing.

southernraw Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 7:40pm

"They say one bad apple can spoil a whole bunch
What if, all you had was bad apples for lunch
What if, all you had was what you can touch
What if, before you had a dream you were crushed"
A.B Briggs.

Pop Down Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 8:02pm

s/r
Good q I now realise .

A very poor couple of sentences and choice of word .

This story riled me .
It is about trust .
After the Royal Commission and the spanking of big banks , this should not be able to happen ,

Not sure how to deal with the leeches .
Was stupid to offer an opinion .

Will pop down on this .

southernraw Thursday, 19 Oct 2023 at 8:15pm

haha all good @popdown.
Was just trying to get the gist of where you were coming from.
Cheers.

truebluebasher Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 3:09am

Reply to adam12 re: High Court electoral interpretation of Constitution.

Universal law throws out claim that Dog ate my Vote...if it had no bearing on Electoral outcome.
But once a pack of dogs prevent a postie from delivering a winning margin of ballots....
Judges tend to halt proceedings!

Obviously this is not USA with a Dominion of Chads taking out swing state Postal Vans.
There goes another one...Kaboom!

However...Oz / AEC are no strangers to coordinated Mass Voting manipulation.
UN and High Court already have a track record in this regard...much of it bookends The Voice!
Doubt if there's a similar review on this scale...only that this is getting hard to hide.

tbb has long showcased a list of disputes which manipulated our 100yr low vote on Voice Referendum.
Merely presenting that once this combo of imposts rule the roost then legal Eagles will swoop!
At which point the High Court will decide our fate!

In case ya missed these Quangos, Bills & Court battle machinations running thru Voice End Credits...

*Youth
1912 Oz became first & only Commonwealth Nation to intro compulsory Voting (50%) rose to 73%
1973 ~21yrs lowers to 18rs [L] not being exactly too keen to do so earlier
1993-96 Peak Voting 96.2% Compulsory voting wanes thru divisive [L] era...aside upbeat Kev '07!
(tbb added a companion table for gap years to explain Youth Vote agenda)
2015 (18 > 16yrs push) ALP Leader + 2019 Greens Senate Bill + 2022 Indie MR.
2022 NZ Judge rules refusing 16yrs Voters > breaches Human Rights Act.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/21/voting-age-of-18-is-discri...
2023 [MAKE IT 16] AEC : Enroll 16yrs Vote 18yrs > Join Parties ALP 14yrs + [L] 16yrs

Year ~ Med Age > Avg Voter
1992 ~ 32.7yrs > n/a
2007 ~ 36.8yrs > 46yrs was then 9.2years older than Avg pop
2022 ~ 38.5yrs > 53yrs is now 14.5yrs older than now 1.7yr older Avg pop (16 yrs older!)
Pause : Oz is aging 1 mth / year but Oz electorate is aging 1yr / year (12x faster!)
2022 ~ Highest % age increases : 60+ 38.20% > 65+ 64.83% > (70+ 70.73% - Over 3m voters)
Say Boo & 70+ vote alone muffles out 2023 Voice of Youth 18yrs-33yrs (Sorry gromz!)
AEC / Govt stall on age bias...all can see why denying 16yr+ Youth Vote is a Human Rights breach.

Aboriginal Youth
Family argued tbb never knew any local Aborigines thru School years.(tbb still knows their full names!)
Yeah! Selective memories whitewashing the mob in 2023...alive & kicking in yer own clan! Wow!

Aboriginal Median Age 24years > 50% pop are too young to vote and or isolated / incarcerated
Less than 50% enrolled Aborigines voted in 2022 Election > Voice should be higher (No info yet?)

This would present as a major shock if fewer than half "Enrolled'" voted for Voice...Let's pray not!
All crew can see just how apathetic Aboriginal Voice concern is right here & now!
$450m & AEC can't or won't tally a National Indigenous Roll call after a month. Wow! Says it all!
#1 reason for the basis & guts of this review & AEC can give national count but not Aboriginal count?

Green Ant : "I didn't get to deal with Indigenous turn out, but will have an impact on Aboriginal % !"
Here's my finger painting : "Most meaningless graph I've ever drawn!" (Is he taking the piss or on it!)
https://antonygreen.com.au/the-most-meaningless-graph-ive-ever-drawn/

25th Sept Aboriginal Voting started & finished 6 days ago...(Anthony has more paintings to do!)
Like Wow! Now yer all know why Oz had to have a Reffo...Inconsiderate pack of lazy bastards!
Green Ant Bully : "I'll get slackarse tbb to do it as usual...wait a year for Green Ant to pick up the trail!"

Scomo mandates 3 point Photo ID License checks on Walkabout Mob to secure o's Xmas Is Detention.
Maritime Union Voice 'Mayo' took [L] to UN...said ya can't lock out Aboriginal Voice Enrollment.
Albo / AEC : Fasttrack Direct ROBO enrol of Aboriginals via Medicare / Jabz / Taxi-Grog Cards.

*Migration
Scomo mandates Oz Day Citizenship to restrict Migrants to annual enrolment to cocoon his cronies.
ALP fasttrack open council citizenship > 5 day back enrollment to ramp new migrant enrollment.

*Covid outbreak
15-20% AEC staff were furloughed with Covid...Not enough to man booths + fear of pencil strain...
Many booths were closed resulting in low 2022 turn out...continues next.
tbb also shared that All AEC remote / facility teams must be Up to date Covid/ Flu vaxed.
Just showing how wide & deep Voting bias locks out or in! Lawyers can milk that!

*Climate Change
Flooded AEC booths (eg: Lismore had just 1 dry AEC Booth up 200 flights of stairs..No wheelies!
Again...most booths were flooded out...low 2022 turn out ...continues next

*Nat Cab Bio Health Flood Emergency Poll
Voter Manipulation to cull Oz wide Electorate...depriving 500k votes
AEC / Natcab orchestrated 2wk Mass Covid Testing resulting in STFAH - Dead Donkey Vote Wave
Also seems as if sitting members could cull 'cursed Booths' to limit level of overthrow / outbreak..
tbb called this on the day...Member's dud booths got the chop...(Double bunger Voter cull rort!)

*Voice Voter Confusion
[ Don't Know Vote No ] Voice Strain...scared the shit outta bipolar Voters...Are we coming or going!
Breach! Obviously UN don't take kindly to such mass hypnosis voter manipulation.
No longer Universally adopted non biased 100% adaptable equally fair to all voters = [x]
1967 [L] Changed over to biased language of arduous typeface variation [NO] Division vs [ YES ] Jingle
Direct contravention of Human Rights to Vote in one Language Directive for 4-500 language groups!

* Voice Cost cutback
Many reports of Voice CBD Booth shutdowns...depriving Major pop of inner city [YES] Voters.
tbb thinks this exercise would ramp the high 21% no show low [YES] real quick...Needs review!
Checks reveal 7,000+ booths were prescribed for last 3 elections...hard to source exact info...
This gets muddled with # Box locations > solo / multi attributed to site/s!

* Political Example
Record cost of leasing Inner City booths sees AEC switching to cheaper Pre Poll sites
Early Voting has soared 15-20% in 5 years > Electorate see Leaders care less for Big day Convention.
Record low Polling Day Fanfare directly mirrors leader's flow to record low participation.
This in itself shreds prestige off any Voting value.

* Fines or Lack of them
All other aspects of society > fines are increasing but failing to vote fines are now rare!
$20 Fines were introduced in 1984 ...Still the same penalty!
Now! No punishment > No incentive > No Vote > No worries
AEC : You might be fined if ya might not vote! Yeah/Nah $20...(Cough!)

* Polls forecast 19% were unlikely to Vote in the Voice..
Parliament already knew that Voter apathy would override any official marginal outcome & did!

Quite a lot to dig out & share but it could likely present as merely a part of larger politics.
Sure, crew might add another 10 or 20 inter-plays...who knows...tbb just stuck to the classics!

As noisy as we swear it was...The Voice was actually our quietest whisper in over 100 years.
As said...doubt if any Media are Headlining Oz largest 21% vote Boycott in over a Century...
In fact they play it down by 25% as far as tbb has read...why! Can't answer that one!
It seems to be fading from view rather than frontline...perhaps at AEC request?
No one is that serious about Constitution or Voice...otherwise all above would be sequenced, but no!
Electorate bitch about sounding boards but ignore the above background clusterfuck drowning it out.
No Voice can survive in our already toxic sea of flip flopping biased electoral diving platforms.

Claiming Victory within' an hour to please a biased demographic within a more biased demographic.
Politicians only had to pretend that Aborigines were the very reason of any Voice Tally...all failed!
Coz we Aussies aren't racist...days later we got off our arses and counted Aboriginal Votes...and...
Turns out the less important group of Aboriginal Voters overwhelmingly shouted 75% YES.
Pause : 3-4 weeks since Indigenous Voting & Anthony has found time for Aboriginal Voice roll call.
Aboriginal Yes % vote will ultimately depend on turnout...don't hold yer breath...none care as yet!
But as lesser 60% of non indigenous boasted days earlier...keep outta secret white man's business!

tbb tabled the low turnout to show that the day is drawing nearer for any party to challenge result.
Once the obviously manipulated growing Margin > bosses the result margin...all hell breaks loose!
It's not tbb's place to argue wot line of attack for wot outcome...so far plenty of reason & more to come.

More Parties are colliding into more train wrecks coming out equally bruised with lawyers on tap!
Election outcome is frozen...then counter claims as shown in the list of this weeks latest rorts.
Just like lotto...growing numbers of combos on offer...just toss in a spanner & pull out yer winner

tbb examples how Courts are already overruling interpretations of constitution for enrollment rorts!
Cost is mounting > soon challenging every minority 'Mandate' by default for every future election.
Clear to all No majority will soon never have Voted for anything any Govt proposed from this day on...
Those days are coming to screeching halt like Ford (v) Holden...no such thing!

See Team USA 2023/24 TV Week programme guide is locked in to drown Trump out a year in advance.
Lead Candidate Trump has Constitutional 1st amendment right to speak silenced by abuse of power.
Rendered voiceless by Lawyers...they decide which innocent speaks on wot & when...not the people!

tbb is not issuing any directive...just compiling & sharing the ramping of Electoral rorts to this point.

Read how this plays out here... from the expert on the matter...

Constitutional Clarion ~ 15 Part weekly series
Part 1 [ Don't Know Vote No ] Failing to Exercise yer Vote.
https://www.youtube.com/@constitutionalclarion1901

1. 'We'll, we get stuck with an 1890's Constitution, but that's not gonna work forever because it's not gonna match the world we live in. So that means either the Constitution becomes brittle and breaks at the next crisis & you do see that in countries where the constitution is overthrown, simply because it can't manage to deal with current circumstances.'

2. 'Most likely for Oz is that we head down the route where the Constitution is instead changed by the High Court thru Constitutional Interpretation...allowing for incremental change.'

3. 'When we get to the point where Govt says there is no point in holding a Referendum ever again!
Because we've been encouraged to not bother to find out but to instead just Vote No as a default Position. So on that basis, the pressure is gonna be put on the high court to make more & more radical changes thru interpretation, so we end up in a position like the US. Where it's the supreme court which is really supreme in terms of control of the constitution.'

Don't responsibly exercise yer Vote then you'll automatically forgo yer Sovereignty.

This week...cometh the twat cometh the BBC...we see & hear just that...the Voice end game refrain!

Q&A Alexander Downer : "Referendums on political issues (Voice / Brexit) are not worth having!"
All the People Shouting YES (vs) NO...It's Shocking...still be shouting 5 years from now!
50 Finger points: "Don't go near another referendum (Burp!)...might be ok if they propose motherhood!"

*[L] binned Universal vote [X] format to sweeten [Yes] Votes for 1967 Aboriginal Gerrymander Jingle
Next divide & manipulate [ Don't Know Vote NO ] Aboriginal / Republic + Voice Reffos .
Locked into Paragraph 1 Clause 1 in every [NO] case Booklet including Dutto's Gig.

[L] Exploit & serve up our Constitution as a titillating plastic wrapped cheap porn Mag @ yer servo!
Enough to scare Gran off > Dad knows not to touch it > Gromz know it's taboo to speak of it!
Pride of Place staring back at us, laughingly lauded as the Holy Grail & we all gotta dance around it!

There ya have it...Court jester shits on Empire Convention & steals our Constitutional Jewel the Crown!
[L] Dr No : "Exercising yer Constitutional Right is taboo...don't even attempt it without God on yer side!
God resurrects our Glorious Queen! Aborigines are One of Us...May history be on our side not theirs!"

Question remains...does Albo risk clawing back $450m Fines to restore Reffo Pride or let it slide.
Media have played this down but have weighed up the fines to knock off the Bill...Good luck with that!

gsco Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 7:31am

I love your stuff tbb but is this statement accurate (and I've seen lots of other people say similar things)?:

tbb wrote:
...days later we got off our arses and counted Aboriginal Votes...and...
Turns out the less important group of Aboriginal Voters overwhelmingly shouted 75% YES.

Pls correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this figure only for remote communities whose populations are nearly all Aboriginal Australians?

An article often cited for this figure is this news.com.au one:

"In total across the remote communities, 8,638 people voted in favour of the referendum, with 3,134 voting against it. That’s a 73 per cent Yes result."

Here's another The Guardian article and The Conversation article discussing the same topic.

But the proportion of Aboriginal Australians living in these remote communities is only about 20% (1 & 2).

It's not valid to say that the views of Aboriginal Australians in remote communities are representative of the other 80% of Aboriginal Australians.

In statistics and experimental design, making this mistake is often called selection bias: "the bias introduced by the selection of individuals, groups, or data for analysis in such a way that proper randomization is not achieved, thereby failing to ensure that the sample obtained is representative of the population intended to be analyzed".

burleigh Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 7:38am

southernraw wrote:
"They say one bad apple can spoil a whole bunch
What if, all you had was bad apples for lunch
What if, all you had was what you can touch
What if, before you had a dream you were crushed"
A.B Briggs.

Briggs, trying his hardest to make every white australian feel unwelcome in their own country.

frog Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 9:45am

The campaign managing to turn a half time lead of 40 points into a loss of 40 says something about the campaign leaders and an insight into how well an actual Voice committee might have worked.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-devil-in-the-details-inside-...

"The emphatic verdict left Yes supporters shell-shocked. It shattered Indigenous leaders who had campaigned for years for a constitutionally enshrined Voice but were ultimately unwilling to compromise on its scope and power.

These leaders formed the ballast of the government’s 21-member referendum advisory group charged with finalising the amendment and advising the cabinet on referendum strategy.

“Megan almost had veto power on some issues,” says one source unwilling to go on the record due to the current sensitivities."

“We asked for this referendum and the government facilitated the process. The loss of this referendum falls fairly and squarely on us as Aboriginal campaigners.”

Marcus Stewart, Indigenous leader"

Not so good at listening, advocating and using a massive budget it seems.

Would this test of real world leadership suggest that the Voice concept led by them would have been a "magic wand" (as presented by the messaging) solving all manner of FNP issues? Competent and effective or fragmented and dominated by a few big voices?

Big committees are only a big committee. Big talkers often don't get things done and are often very bad listeners.

The symbolic loss is real. The practical outcome loss in terms of real improvements foregone is probably much less than many FNP imagine.

frog Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 10:57am

Correction,,,, meant 20 points - big lead

Waleed Aly says it well:

"He wrote that while the Yes advocates always insisted it was a “simple, modest proposal” as a “referendum proposal, it wasn’t simple at all”.

“It required you to jump through plenty of hoops…” he continued.

These “hoops” included whether the proposal was a good idea, whether it should be a constitutional body and if it was “prudent to entrench a largely untried institution in this way rather than try it out first?”

Aly argued voters also had to contend with whether there would be any “unintended consequences” from the proposal.

He described each of these “hoops” as “big questions” that voters had to answer yes to if they wanted to land in the Yes camp.

By contrast, to vote No you only needed to disagree with one of those questions, he reasoned."

A self stated "chance of a generation" campaign with feet of clay of FNP leadership and Albo's own making.

san Guine Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 10:39am

https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/populations-ag...

southernraw Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 11:14am

burleigh wrote:
southernraw wrote:
"They say one bad apple can spoil a whole bunch
What if, all you had was bad apples for lunch
What if, all you had was what you can touch
What if, before you had a dream you were crushed"
A.B Briggs.

Briggs, trying his hardest to make every white australian feel unwelcome in their own country.

Burlrigh perhaps its a reflection of how most young indigenous crew feel.
You might not like it but its the symptom, not the cause of a racist past.
And its the only "voice" they currently have.
Remember when minority groups voices were quashed during the pandemic? Surely you dont support censorship.
Maybe its worth reflecting on the why of his words.

Hiccups Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 1:23pm

burleigh wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Maybe getting Briggs as the poster boy of the yes campaign wasn't a great idea after all.

I wish this beauty from 4 years ago got dragged up from the gutter when he was labelling everyone that votes no a racist.

https://youtu.be/INRY_MJkvs4?si=14zWu-XAEeiHb_GG

Love to hear what you think is wrong with this video, fish-food. I'm sure Briggs would be happy it's getting some extra views thanks to you.

He's an angry man, with views that will encourage anger. Why would you give him a voice with anger like that?

He's not trying to work together with white and blak Australia. He is dividing.

200 odd years of his people being oppressed? He should really be much more polite about it. That seems to work SO well for blak people. Maybe to take his mind off the fact that a fair percentage of NO voters are racist cunts, he needs something like, oh I dunno, a government trying to navigate their way through a pandemic to get angry about. Maybe blow up on the regular about the MASSIVE inconvenience of having to wear a mask once in a while. Have a fucken whinge about vaccines that are overwhelmingly safe for the vast, vast majority of people, instead of making whitey feel uncomfortable.

burleigh Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 1:57pm

Hiccups wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Maybe getting Briggs as the poster boy of the yes campaign wasn't a great idea after all.

I wish this beauty from 4 years ago got dragged up from the gutter when he was labelling everyone that votes no a racist.

https://youtu.be/INRY_MJkvs4?si=14zWu-XAEeiHb_GG

Love to hear what you think is wrong with this video, fish-food. I'm sure Briggs would be happy it's getting some extra views thanks to you.

He's an angry man, with views that will encourage anger. Why would you give him a voice with anger like that?

He's not trying to work together with white and blak Australia. He is dividing.

200 odd years of his people being oppressed? He should really be much more polite about it. That seems to work SO well for blak people. Maybe to take his mind off the fact that a fair percentage of NO voters are racist cunts, he needs something like, oh I dunno, a government trying to navigate their way through a pandemic to get angry about. Maybe blow up on the regular about the MASSIVE inconvenience of having to wear a mask once in a while. Have a fucken whinge about vaccines that are overwhelmingly safe for the vast, vast majority of people, instead of making whitey feel uncomfortable.

I saw a little kid throwing a ball this morning with their dad. Reminded me of you.

adam12 Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 2:07pm

@Burleigh "He's an angry man, with views that will encourage anger. Why would you give him a voice with anger like that?"

So we better cancel half the FNP bands, plus the whole punk movement, Chuck D and Public Enemy, NWA, in fact most of hip hop, who else? Midnight Oil... fark, let's just cancel half the art ever expressed, not just music.
If we are cancelling angry men expressing themselves with angry words then we should probably cancel you too Burls.
As Johnny Rotten famously sang "anger is an energy".
Some of the greatest art ever made is inspired by anger Burls.
You know that, you are not stupid or are you?
What's your real beef with Briggs?
Why single him out?
Tell us where the bad blak man touched you.

Supafreak Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 2:09pm

seeds Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 2:14pm

@adam12 Hahaha good point though.

?si=U2cAwXP_D5jgQgh-

Hiccups Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 2:28pm

burleigh wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Maybe getting Briggs as the poster boy of the yes campaign wasn't a great idea after all.

I wish this beauty from 4 years ago got dragged up from the gutter when he was labelling everyone that votes no a racist.

https://youtu.be/INRY_MJkvs4?si=14zWu-XAEeiHb_GG

Love to hear what you think is wrong with this video, fish-food. I'm sure Briggs would be happy it's getting some extra views thanks to you.

He's an angry man, with views that will encourage anger. Why would you give him a voice with anger like that?

He's not trying to work together with white and blak Australia. He is dividing.

200 odd years of his people being oppressed? He should really be much more polite about it. That seems to work SO well for blak people. Maybe to take his mind off the fact that a fair percentage of NO voters are racist cunts, he needs something like, oh I dunno, a government trying to navigate their way through a pandemic to get angry about. Maybe blow up on the regular about the MASSIVE inconvenience of having to wear a mask once in a while. Have a fucken whinge about vaccines that are overwhelmingly safe for the vast, vast majority of people, instead of making whitey feel uncomfortable.

I saw a little kid throwing a ball this morning with their dad. Reminded me of you.

Nice to see you've altered your incredibly feeble insult so it no longer denigrates women, fishfood.

adam12 Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 2:29pm

@Seeds,
Yeah, thanks for that clip. What a band. Chuck D, fucking legend and Flavor Flav, greatest hype man in all of hip hop. Saw Chuck D interviewed recently, he's still angry!

seeds Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 2:37pm

Yep no need for any gangster crap back then. Just an intelligent worthy message. Dorky skinny 14 year old white boy me, living in Darwin, just went wow when I heard PE. Already into hip hop but geez these guys are actually saying something. Probably when I became a Marxist ;)

Jelly Flater Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 2:49pm

Burlz
Give your kids a big hug tonight, and when you’re tucking them in maybe ponder this…

Imagine some cunt busted your door in, forced their way into your place, possibly put a rifle in ya face and just upped and left with ya kids. Just farkn stole them.
- imagine you never saw them again, and they never saw their family again.

Wonder what it was like for your kids as they got forced to a new home, were forced to dress and speak and believe in stuff that was, strangely enough, forced upon them…
- going to sleep in a foreign bed, in a place with other kids in the same bewildering, terrifying situation. Must’ve been on their ‘to do’ list right…

(It’d almost be like having to get a farkn needle for something that, strangely enough, you didn’t even farkn need, nor want ;)
- but you had to do it. You were forced…
And… forced to do it because it was deemed as being best for you…)

Then you lived the rest of your life… with the memories of those beautiful innocent kids. And you wondered… ‘fark… why ? What for ? Where are they ? Are they safe ?’
But you never got to see them again.

So you endured, and continued… but you hurt… it hurt like nothing else…
- no matter what was said or done, those kids never returned.

Imagine your wife, the mother. Imagine how you would cope… could you ? Probly be heavier than a mandated lockdown in your own home. Inconvenient and illegal, all the same, but really…
- would you cope well knowing some cunt stole ya kids ?

And then a generation or two passed and there was this often unbridled and volatile aspect to your family’s recollection of those missing kids and whatever happened to them. Some in those instances, were taken care of and ‘assimilated’.
Some were institutionally ‘reeducated’, and some were bashed and raped.

Thing is. It was wrong. It was inhumane.
- it would also feed and inspire anger.

Legitimate anger. I reckon the kind of anger you or myself or most ppl would not and cannot understand.

…..

My wife works with many indigenous women and kids.
This week a mother spoke to her because herself and her family were very sad and sombre because of the voice result.
- just one individual scenario but a decent reflection of the overall sentiment of the indigenous community here…

This mother does a lot of work educating her mob and her kids do the indigenous ceremonial and dance traditions at schools and community groups in the area.

After last weekends results, the lady’s children don’t want to do it anymore. They say ‘what’s the point’, obviously nobody cares.

Now… this is just one family. But they are an important family, they’re at the forefront of protecting and growing their culture and keeping it alive. They do it cause they love it, not because they have to. It creates understanding, brings ppl together and helps broaden knowledge and open others up to being considerate and respectful.

I feel for those kids, they don’t deserve to be marginalised and feel unsupported or wanted. It’s understandable they’re upset. Now, this lady still has her kids, so it’s a pretty good deal after all ;)

But really.
You’ll never understand. Neither will I.

And, regardless of the motivation for the voice, regardless of the political treachery… it’s obvious some individuals are hurting, are disappointed, disillusioned… and angry…

Fair enough.
- fight the power ;)

burleigh Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 3:29pm

Jelly Flater wrote:
Burlz
Give your kids a big hug tonight, and when you’re tucking them in maybe ponder this…

Imagine some cunt busted your door in, forced their way into your place, possibly put a rifle in ya face and just upped and left with ya kids. Just farkn stole them.
- imagine you never saw them again, and they never saw their family again.

Wonder what it was like for your kids as they got forced to a new home, were forced to dress and speak and believe in stuff that was, strangely enough, forced upon them…
- going to sleep in a foreign bed, in a place with other kids in the same bewildering, terrifying situation. Must’ve been on their ‘to do’ list right…

(It’d almost be like having to get a farkn needle for something that, strangely enough, you didn’t even farkn need, nor want ;)
- but you had to do it. You were forced…
And… forced to do it because it was deemed as being best for you…)

Then you lived the rest of your life… with the memories of those beautiful innocent kids. And you wondered… ‘fark… why ? What for ? Where are they ? Are they safe ?’
But you never got to see them again.

So you endured, and continued… but you hurt… it hurt like nothing else…
- no matter what was said or done, those kids never returned.

Imagine your wife, the mother. Imagine how you would cope… could you ? Probly be heavier than a mandated lockdown in your own home. Inconvenient and illegal, all the same, but really…
- would you cope well knowing some cunt stole ya kids ?

And then a generation or two passed and there was this often unbridled and volatile aspect to your family’s recollection of those missing kids and whatever happened to them. Some in those instances, were taken care of and ‘assimilated’.
Some were institutionally ‘reeducated’, and some were bashed and raped.

Thing is. It was wrong. It was inhumane.
- it would also feed and inspire anger.

Legitimate anger. I reckon the kind of anger you or myself or most ppl would not and cannot understand.

…..

My wife works with many indigenous women and kids.
This week a mother spoke to her because herself and her family were very sad and sombre because of the voice result.
- just one individual scenario but a decent reflection of the overall sentiment of the indigenous community here…

This mother does a lot of work educating her mob and her kids do the indigenous ceremonial and dance traditions at schools and community groups in the area.

After last weekends results, the lady’s children don’t want to do it anymore. They say ‘what’s the point’, obviously nobody cares.

Now… this is just one family. But they are an important family, they’re at the forefront of protecting and growing their culture and keeping it alive. They do it cause they love it, not because they have to. It creates understanding, brings ppl together and helps broaden knowledge and open others up to being considerate and respectful.

I feel for those kids, they don’t deserve to be marginalised and feel unsupported or wanted. It’s understandable they’re upset. Now, this lady still has her kids, so it’s a pretty good deal after all ;)

But really.
You’ll never understand. Neither will I.

And, regardless of the motivation for the voice, regardless of the political treachery… it’s obvious some individuals are hurting, are disappointed, disillusioned… and angry…

Fair enough.
- fight the power ;)

Yes Jelly, i understand the horrible way FNP were treated.

I want us to move in the right direction. Holding onto pain will not heal us yet he wants to keep pushing this pain and anger.

It should NEVER be forgotten, but it's time to move forward together. anger isn't the way and labelling everyone racists who doesn't agree with his anger is just wrong.

seeds Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 3:43pm

Let’s do that Burls. By giving FNP a big fuck you last week! So many (shit) reasons for it. Yours? because of a grievance and no trust with the guvment over something in the past. Shit man, you sound like generations of blakfellas in this country with that story.

goofyfoot Friday, 20 Oct 2023 at 3:51pm

Jelly -
“ Imagine some cunt busted your door in, forced their way into your place, possibly put a rifle in ya face and just upped and left with ya kids. Just farkn stole them.
- imagine you never saw them again, and they never saw their family again.

A few years ago before I had kids these couple of paragraphs wouldn’t of made me think twice about them but since becoming a dad every time I’m reminded of this fucked up part of Australia’s history it honestly makes me feel sick.
I just can not begin to imagine what these people went through.
To think it happened in this amazing country is mind boggling.
How could people do this to another family

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