The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

bluediamond started the topic in

Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

southernraw Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 12:48pm

Supafreak wrote:
https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2023/10/22/peter-dutton-jacinta-pri... Peter Dutton, Jacinta Price and her mother Bess Price exposed conspiring to loot $million from Indigenous funding via a school grant
BY SHANE DOWLING ON OCTOBER 22, 2023

Wow. So the Price WAS right, at around $12M??
That's absolutely damning and if found to be true, surely the whole No campaign will be uncovered for the lie it was all along.
Which should result in a referendum recall.
If this is true, (and i always assumed Price was in it for the Price, because who honestly would turn against their own people like that unless there was a big financial incentive), then Australians have been blatantly lied to, manipulated and ripped off.
No surprises really.

Supafreak Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 1:10pm

southernraw wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2023/10/22/peter-dutton-jacinta-pri... Peter Dutton, Jacinta Price and her mother Bess Price exposed conspiring to loot $million from Indigenous funding via a school grant
BY SHANE DOWLING ON OCTOBER 22, 2023

Wow. So the Price WAS right, at around $12M??
That's absolutely damning and if found to be true, surely the whole No campaign will be uncovered for the lie it was all along.
Which should result in a referendum recall.
If this is true, (and i always assumed Price was in it for the Price, because who honestly would turn against their own people like that unless there was a big financial incentive), then Australians have been blatantly lied to, manipulated and ripped off.
No surprises really.

From the article “ There is widespread fraud across Indigenous Affairs government spending and readers have contacted me with other alleged frauds but it is too much to put in one article so I will do other articles and/or videos in the near future. “…………
Spud wants an audit into spending on indigenous programs , doesn’t he know where the money went on the decade the liberals were in power ?

indo-dreaming Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 1:43pm

Great a conspiracy theory from some dodgy looking website with Pateron and PaPal donate links all over it.

Let's not forget who's asking for an audit of the industry.

Australia voted No, time to move on.

Pop Down Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 1:53pm

s/r
Either U are In or Out of Australia .

There is NO halfway house .

We are having enough trouble organising ourselves properly .

So , the big Question ?

Do All Australians have to follow the same rules ?

I am not allowed to kill a turtle or dugong .

I am a BIG YES !

southernraw Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:04pm

Define 'Australians' @popdown and your question probably answers itself.
Refer back to my last post and the first question i posed.

Supafreak Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:19pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
Great a conspiracy theory from some dodgy looking website with Pateron and PaPal donate links all over it.

Let's not forget who's asking for an audit of the industry.

Australia voted No, time to move on.

Sounds like your against an enquiry into this indo , JPs mum has previous form as I’ve posted before and was briefly mentioned in this article . So your defence is it’s a dodgy website because of paypal donate links . Do you prefer the avi style of asking for donations ? BTW@indo I know you haven’t bothered to read the article. All good.

Pop Down Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:26pm

s/r
Please make our discussions easy .
FFS - Australians , I am guessing , are people who can get a Aussie Passport .
Feel free to post your definition first , of any def U ask me .
Especially questions like this .
It will save time .

Make it easy for me please .

A Yes or No .

Are ALL Australians Equal , in the eyes of Australian ( same def ) law ?

And a question for U .

Do U think all Australians ( same def ) are equal ( deserve the same human rights ) ???

Just a Yes or No , is needed .

Again , I am a big Yes .

southernraw Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:30pm

Definition of Australian? Whichever race was here first.
Do i think Australians are all equal under the eyes of the law? Yes but there's intricacies that can be manipulated, especially in the criminal justice system.
Do i think Australians are all equal? No. Definitely not.
To be honest, you're undertones in your reply are pretty condescending.
Don't think i can be bothered chatting to you.
And you keep saying you voted yes, but i keep hearing little no's creeping into your language.

indo-dreaming Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:49pm

Supafreak wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
Great a conspiracy theory from some dodgy looking website with Pateron and PaPal donate links all over it.

Let's not forget who's asking for an audit of the industry.

Australia voted No, time to move on.

Sounds like your against an enquiry into this indo , JPs mum has previous form as I’ve posted before and was briefly mentioned in this article . So your defence is it’s a dodgy website because of paypal donate links . Do you prefer the avi style of asking for donations ? BTW@indo I know you haven’t bothered to read the article. All good.

Theres is plenty of hater's out there trying to bring Jacinta down (in this case aiming at her mother) and there will be plenty more now that she has helped get the No vote up.

Jacinta and others are basically asking for an audit to see where the money goes and hold people and organisations accountable, its not going to be an audit run by LNP, so if Bessie Price really had done something wrong Jacinta wouldn't be trying to get the organisation she is involved audited would she?

The guys obviously just a hater talking shit, making the most of Jacinta's current profile trying to get clicks and $$$.

BTW. in regard to asking for money for a service, Its so easy to have an opinion on a dodgy website its not much harder than having an opinion on a forum, only difference is the cost of a domain name an website hosting.

Thats quite different to going out onto the streets with a camera crew etc or flying across the world to a war zone and reporting that has large associated cost.

But end of the day people can give their money to have they like i guess.

Pop Down Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:52pm

S/R

Have deliberately NOT declared my vote .
Yes , was a No .
Like most Australians .
U have , so far , not corrected ANY of my comments .

If you don't want to discuss ANY issue with me , fine .
I can be bothersome !

Your answers , as I can work them out , on these crucial questions .
Please feel free to correct any mistakes .

Australian's are defined by who got here first . Really ?

OK , please tell me which race got here first ( I have tried to work it out haha ) , second and everything after that is not Australian .
FMe . So , Australian's didn't build this nation ? Who's blood was spilled in Europe defending our nation . Some group of Refugees ?

Are Australians equal by law ?

Yes but NO .

Do U think Australians have equal human rights .

No .

Mate , why ?

This is probably , one of the most important issues facing FNP .

U are obviously a Yes .
The Yes team were not prepared to answer ANY of these questions as well .

Exactly why 61% of Australians ( as defined by the ref ) told U to PLEASE work out where U stand so we can come to an agreement .

Supafreak Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:55pm

Like I said indo , you didn’t bother to read the article . https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2023/09/17/fugitive-australian-jour...

southernraw Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:51pm

Sorry @popdown. I can see where this is going.
Same thiing happened with a poster named Hutchy. Ended up getting a bit ugly.
Maybe find someone who has a better tolerance to heated emotional online debate.
All the best.

indo-dreaming Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:55pm

I read most of it, the guy is clearly full of shit.

Supafreak Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 2:58pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
I read most of it, the guy is clearly full of shit.

Really ? Which part is crap ?

Pop Down Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 3:07pm

Fair enough s/r .
The debate is difficult .
I do have empathy for how difficult it must be for our FNP .
It is very emotional for me and , I feel , almost , like a person with no "skin in the game " .
I want our FNP to be happy !
Really like U have stopped this, thank you !
I am not here to argue .
Have done enough of that in my past .
I will Pop down .
Hutchy was a dick head , on Swellnet .
Bon Chance :)

southernraw Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 3:19pm

Respect @popdown.
Cheers mate!

Pop Down Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 at 3:59pm

southernraw

Right back at U .
Taught me a valuable lesson :)

sameaswas Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 9:01am

just wondering now the week of mournings gone will noel pearson resign from public life (retire) as he stated when the reffo was 70% for yes?

he said "if the yes does'nt get up he will retire" or words to that effect.

allso will marcia and her caball back up warren and jacintas demand for audit and royal commision into paedo and literacy skills for fnp? if not why?

whats their plan b?

sameaswas Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 9:17am

Supafreak wrote:
Like I said indo , you didn’t bother to read the article . https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2023/09/17/fugitive-australian-jour...

i read it, heresay and slander imo.

if he updates his investigation, like he said he would, please keep us informed.

he calls his blog "kangaroo court" = before the accused enters the court the verdict is allready decided (guilty), they are read out the accusation they are charged with' "how do you plead"?...not guilty!
they are told guilty and marched out to a summary execution.

therefore i assume he has forwarded his opinion piece to the accused price family and dutton??
if not he is wide open for a law suit for slander and libel.

gromfull Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 9:23am

Supafreak wrote:
southernraw wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2023/10/22/peter-dutton-jacinta-pri... Peter Dutton, Jacinta Price and her mother Bess Price exposed conspiring to loot $million from Indigenous funding via a school grant
BY SHANE DOWLING ON OCTOBER 22, 2023

Wow. So the Price WAS right, at around $12M??
That's absolutely damning and if found to be true, surely the whole No campaign will be uncovered for the lie it was all along.
Which should result in a referendum recall.
If this is true, (and i always assumed Price was in it for the Price, because who honestly would turn against their own people like that unless there was a big financial incentive), then Australians have been blatantly lied to, manipulated and ripped off.
No surprises really.

From the article “ There is widespread fraud across Indigenous Affairs government spending and readers have contacted me with other alleged frauds but it is too much to put in one article so I will do other articles and/or videos in the near future. “…………
Spud wants an audit into spending on indigenous programs , doesn’t he know where the money went on the decade the liberals were in power ?

I find that a bit hard to believe. i went and listened to her talk, all i heard was positive outcomes for her people, yes she states some real hard truths about her people, the rapes , the violence, the dodgy practices that rob money that is meant to go those in need but it doesn't, she has called for an inquiry into all funding that goes into the indigenous industry, why would she do that if she had her hand in the till.

For years ive heard nothing but bad shit said about her by those that are against her, or dont hear the message she is trying to put out, so i go looking for all this so called dirt on her, buty i find nothing.

The main reason there is a so called gap, is because of their life choices, this applies to townies, not the remote communities, things she states, but oh no cant say the truth, thats racist, or she goes against her people, bullshit, she wants the best for her people, ill read the whole article later when i get time, but fuck me this bashing of her constantly is a joke

gromfull Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 9:28am

sameaswas wrote:
just wondering now the week of mournings gone will noel pearson resign from public life (retire) as he stated when the reffo was 70% for yes?

he said "if the yes does'nt get up he will retire" or words to that effect.

allso will marcia and her caball back up warren and jacintas demand for audit and royal commision into paedo and literacy skills for fnp? if not why?

whats their plan b?

Well said, there was a story written in boota i think about ol dodgy Noel, if he was to retire he would be living a good life, he is the first that needs to be audited, what happened to the 550 mil that all of his indigenous programs have had to better the outcomes of those communities, those same communities that dont want him anywhere near them, he would be a good start, now let the auditing begin

harrycoopr Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 5:20pm

Wow, thought I'd pop in and see what's happening... gee u guys like a good long debates huh.
Great to see the majority of Aboriginal communities voting yes... Of course they feel let down... AGAIN. They're used to being fuckedover big time but this one must've hurt. Just watched a doco on Trump (#Unfit) and a really important point was made... Trump gave a voice to the disenfranchised but he also said "hey, it's alright to be a racist white power sexist 'grab em by the pussy' dumb f*cking redneck idiot" ... be proud of yr inner bogan!! Plus the fact that whinywimpy Trump fed straight into the anti-woke anti-intellectual victimology of the deplorables. I mean lets call a spade a spade huh... SpudDutton gave all the dumb and wantonly ignorant Orrrzies, not to mention the closeted racists, the green light to be themselves and be the pathetic victims they also are..."the blackfellas get too much" deplorables.
And just one other thing... for costco... You obviously do not understand Foucault, and post-structuralism in general, otherwise you would not write such an idiotic comment on p140... I couldn't believe that maniacal rant. Obviously you get yr critiques off youtube, as there is no critical or analytical application... just more victimology ... don't be afraid of things you don't understand. Educate yrself!! Proper way!! Not the pissweak conspiracy style nutjob way!!!
Ahh...good to be back. That does feel better now.
Oh yeah, on the Israel/Palestine issue... like I said before, expect brutality if you brutalise others. Just look up what happened to Palestinian villages in the 50s and 60s... whole communities wiped out, slaughtered... by a religious people no less!!! People remember those things... just ask the Warlpiri about Coniston...

Pop Down Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 6:22pm

Astute observation coops ( nice re entry ) .

"Trump gave a voice to the disenfranchised ".

Oh my stars !!!

The list is perhaps , getting longer ?

Racists , rednecks , power sexists , pro life , anti taxers , pro wall ers , anti war , oil and coal workers etc .
Soon , it might be half the country . Lots of those groups have Democrat voters .
Eg Power Sexists - Bill C and G grabbed a few , I think , as well .
I bet Trumpy is not grabbing much now .
I know who wears the pants in his relationship and I quite like her to ( Camilla type :)

I even see Blacks are calling him a brother now . Really .
They are saying anyone who gets a mug shot taken at Somewhere Jail ( the roughest in the US apparently ) is our brother .
The reporter nearly had a heart attack .

There is one thing I really like about Trump .
He is not a politician !

A good sales ( con ) man , to .

Pop Down Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 7:54pm

Been watching the Winki Cam .
No ads is like sitting on the cliff for an hour .
Crap conditions and looks so much fun .

Trump believes everything he says , imho .
Proved to me ( very surprisingly ) he is relatively consistent .
Good and bad .
Would have been disappointed if he didn't chuck a hissy fit for being sacked ( perhaps for stuffing up Covid ( in the end , most did ) ) .

Didn't help start a war between countries !!!
I thought he would .

Thinks he has billions so doesn't have listen to lobbyists ( see Patrick ) .

Very naive politically and diplomatically !!!!
He probably did a Paul Keating ( I bloody ended up really liking him to , surprisingly ) and touched up the Queen , inappropriately .

He had NFI what a Swamp was ( he employed them ) .

Have not followed him closely ( he is hard to miss ) but feel too many underestimate him .
He is a very good performer !

If people think he believes what he says , they will trust him , perhaps .

His political opponents underestimated him the first time .
They won't make that mistake again !

The people of the the US will have a choice . Whatever they decide , has to be ok by me . Their country . Their system , to make the decision .

They will vote Trump , or a better Democrat option .

I am going off thread with this rant . Coops did mention Trump and voice .

Pop Down Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 8:15pm

Amazing what some surfers will do to surf by themselves .
Looked like shark bait .
They must have installed lights on the Winki paths as he just came in .
The camera's seem lighter than my window ,
F Me !

indo-dreaming Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 10:40pm

I cant stand Malcolm Turnbull AKA Malcom Turnball worst LNP PM of our era, but he has summed up things pretty good in this opinion piece.

"Australia’s constitutional history told us the voice referendum was unwinnable. Sadly, that was right Malcolm Turnbull"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/22/australias-constit...

Reform Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 10:38pm

sameaswas wrote:
just wondering now the week of mournings gone will noel pearson resign from public life (retire) as he stated when the reffo was 70% for yes?
he said "if the yes does'nt get up he will retire" or words to that effect.
allso will marcia and her caball back up warren and jacintas demand for audit and royal commision into paedo and literacy skills for fnp? if not why?
whats their plan b?
Gromfull wrote: Well said, there was a story written in boota i think about ol dodgy Noel, if he was to retire he would be living a good life, he is the first that needs to be audited, what happened to the 550 mil that all of his indigenous programs have had to better the outcomes of those communities, those same communities that dont want him anywhere near them, he would be a good start, now let the auditing begin

A couple of gossip merchants, reinforcing a story that is hearsay and not proven. Hey guys! Look into the patterns of deception, trickery and falsehood that the LNP conjure up. Blurting out these accusations which are not proven and very likely is a lie.
Sometime early 2005-6 LNP minister Mal Brough –(Minister for Indigenous Affairs). And following directions by the PM John Howard.
They made up the story of Aboriginal men being child molesters, they made it ‘A thing’ and publicised it hugely through the media. Sneaky dirty business in order to justify clearing the resident aboriginal people off their land where there were rich uranium deposits, I’m guessing the Govt. seized upon.
It’s in the video, posed by Jelly on 15th Sept 2023 – The whole episode is excellent. But on this matter watch from 109.45 for approx. 16 minutes where this story challenges the notion as fraud.

My feeling is that JP and WM are both playing the same game, same pattern as the LNP and Dutton’s dirty game. These two know that there will never be a royal commission enquiry about this, they are playing bluff in calling for that! She and Mund’s are running the field with their sticky coats, collecting and taking gullible captors as they run.

&t=85s

seeds Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 10:43pm

Scomo.
KHPjrx7D7rIGksfwUY

?si=8ywZOuYiGEGMBlzw

seeds Monday, 23 Oct 2023 at 10:53pm

You won’t get many replies Reform. It’s never acknowledged by the other side, here. No wrong is ever done ever.
Sypkan might come to play with his fence paling and bitch slap everyone as he helicopters. Before he finally lands in the Liberal back yard in 10 years (or less)

indo-dreaming Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 7:24am

Great news that high rates of sexual abuse and neglect of children is just all made up, and some dirty political game.

Maybe we can fix the other issues too by just denying them and pretending they dont exist.

Such a simple solution, so much cheaper too.

stunet Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 7:23am

Homepage liquid paper post.

GuySmiley Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 8:22am

In a moment of weakness @info says

“ ….Maybe we can fix the other issues too by just denying them and pretending they dont exist.

Such a simple solution, so much cheaper too.”

Here, let me edit the above to what he really meant ….

Without a doubt we can fix all other issues too by just listening to me because I’m SN’s resident fucking know it all.

Such a simple solution, so much cheaper to you dumb arses, I’m always right!

#alwaysanothercommentdreaming
#cockwomble
#ocddreaming
#philistinedreaming
#SNsresidentfuckingknowitall

indo-dreaming Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 8:38am

What a surprise my own pet troll strikes again with nothing to add to the conversation i really do live rent free in your head.

Your views here might be in the majority but in the real world we now have the stats you sit with the minority at 39% but if the polls on age voting demographics can be believed which they seemed to spot on with total vote, for your age group your view was as low as 25%-27%

Which just shows how out of touch you are with the the average Australian, although you are totally in touch with the elites which doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Im sure Jacinta would say kiss my arse guy and you can kiss mine too.

GuySmiley Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 8:39am

stunet wrote:
Homepage liquid paper post.

Buyer’s remorse yet?
Lil buddy’s contribution over on back pages surely hits an all time low in leaps of logic.

sameaswas Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 9:26am

Reform wrote:
sameaswas wrote:
just wondering now the week of mournings gone will noel pearson resign from public life (retire) as he stated when the reffo was 70% for yes?
he said "if the yes does'nt get up he will retire" or words to that effect.
allso will marcia and her caball back up warren and jacintas demand for audit and royal commision into paedo and literacy skills for fnp? if not why?
whats their plan b?
Gromfull wrote: Well said, there was a story written in boota i think about ol dodgy Noel, if he was to retire he would be living a good life, he is the first that needs to be audited, what happened to the 550 mil that all of his indigenous programs have had to better the outcomes of those communities, those same communities that dont want him anywhere near them, he would be a good start, now let the auditing begin

A couple of gossip merchants, reinforcing a story that is hearsay and not proven. Hey guys! Look into the patterns of deception, trickery and falsehood that the LNP conjure up. Blurting out these accusations which are not proven and very likely is a lie.
Sometime early 2005-6 LNP minister Mal Brough –(Minister for Indigenous Affairs). And following directions by the PM John Howard.
They made up the story of Aboriginal men being child molesters, they made it ‘A thing’ and publicised it hugely through the media. Sneaky dirty business in order to justify clearing the resident aboriginal people off their land where there were rich uranium deposits, I’m guessing the Govt. seized upon.
It’s in the video, posed by Jelly on 15th Sept 2023 – The whole episode is excellent. But on this matter watch from 109.45 for approx. 16 minutes where this story challenges the notion as fraud.

My feeling is that JP and WM are both playing the same game, same pattern as the LNP and Dutton’s dirty game. These two know that there will never be a royal commission enquiry about this, they are playing bluff in calling for that! She and Mund’s are running the field with their sticky coats, collecting and taking gullible captors as they run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lJUCMKYUUw&t=85s

no gossip, fnp paedo is fact, fnp illiteracy is fact and ok by jack thompson (1998 garma) and the ruleing canberra bubble elite.

over a ten year period noel recieved $559 million in grants he wanted for his country ppl in nth qld and the ppl of oz want a full audit on all fnp programs ($40billion/yr?). thats one of reasons we voted no, not racism.

noel pearson said he would step down instead he's staying on to corrupt innocent youth with his warped and twisted bitter and angry outlook on life, a fat waste of space whinger.

oh briggsy aka king billy another whinger. (fatso as well).

adam12 Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 10:34am

Isn't it amazing that the same fucking idiot that has spent literally his whole life for years arguing on these pages that you can't single out FNP and give them "special treatment" because of their "race" because that is racist and makes him unequal, is now arguing to single out FNP and hold a Royal Commission into FNP child abuse.
Not child abuse in the wider Australian community, just FNP.
No figures, no evidence that there exists a problem with FNP that doesn't exist elsewhere.
Just following LNP culture war talking points like the gullible hypocritical racist dumb fuck know it all he is.
(His hero, Gina's bulldog Jacinta Price, is now moving on to her next culture war skirmish of choice to keep her media profile from dissolving post Voice, trans rights, so expect Indo to follow up the lead on that bullshit soon too.)
So we can't give them a voice because that's racist, no one else gets one. but we can give them a sex abuse inquiry, a special one just for them.
You should be arguing against FNP getting a sex abuse Royal Commission unless we all get one Indo, otherwise you are just a racist by your own logic.
Dickhead.

GuySmiley Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 10:50am

Apologies @#alwaysanothercomment I’ve edited my edit to reflect what you truly meant; it’s a small edit but it’s important to you I see….

Without a doubt we can fix all other issues too by just listening to me because I’m SN’s resident fucking know it all.

Such a simple solution, so much cheaper to you dumb arse woke inner city elites; I’m always right!

#alwaysanothercommentdreaming
#cockwomble
#ironylost
#ocddreaming
#philistinedreaming
#SNsresidentfuckingknowitall

sameaswas Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 2:26pm

@ adam, you are in denial about the dysfunctional fnp isolated communities.

all of these fnp communities are gated secretive and all information about them is censored.

we just had a tortuos 9mnths+ reffo campaign that highlighted how bad these communitiesa are: illiteracy, health, and brainwashing preschoolers to be racist towards white ppl. all at the behest of marcia and noel etc etc.

i, we voted no because of their unelected power and deviousness (lies). they are the problem.

@ guy you are incorrect in your comment the official post ref assesment of their fellow ozzies (no) is 1: racist bigots, 2: uneducated, 3: shameless.

adam12 Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 2:53pm

@sameaswas. I'm not in denial about anything. The post was about hypocrisy.
The rest of what you said is bullshit, not worth a response.

seeds Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 2:55pm

@sameoldracist Could you please forward on everything you know of these paedophile rings to Spud and Jacinta so they can report it to police. They just didn’t have any evidence to report to police when making these claims to support the NO campaign.

harrycoopr Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 4:21pm

seeds wrote:
@sameoldracist Could you please forward on everything you know of these paedophile rings to Spud and Jacinta so they can report it to police. They just didn’t have any evidence to report to police when making these claims to support the NO campaign.

Yep it's the ol' LNP tactics to go to the bottom of the scum bucket and try to paint others as they more than likely are... no evidence at all, just swinging their tiny diks in the air all hysterical like. Same as that little whiny twerp Howard who was screaming " kids overboard!!"... In fact it was his intervention that was based on a blanket lie of peedo rings in communities that got tbe ball started... based on 2 yes TWO historic cases involving customary law and promised brides which was messy but nothing to do with the bullshit political agenda that was being pushed by the sleazy NOalition.

Supafreak Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 4:53pm

https://x.com/julianhillmp/status/1688492857290829824?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe... BREAKING: Peter Dutton created a secret slush fund, and stripped funding from community safety works in vulnerable indigenous communities to fund bowling greens in Liberal held and target electorates.

When Peter Dutton had a choice he didn’t listen to his department or indigenous communities, he chose to pork barrell Liberal seats. #auspol. …….interesting smh article in the comments . And @indo said the kangaroo court article I posted was full of shit …….couldn’t say which part though ……..hmmmmm https://alicespringsnews.com.au/2023/04/28/12m-school-extension-hostel-o...

Reform Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 9:46pm

Hey Sameaswas,
Just to finish off with what has been a delightful day.
But something seems amiss and I can see you’re getting heaps of flak from your posts and your points of view. Why is that? Do you have the answer?
If I may suggest this and with respect of course, you could change your name to ‘Upwiththetimes’
It’d be a great omen! Give it a try. I’m sure you’ll get a more palatable and agreeable response from the other kindred posters who are supporters of the beautiful, talented and dignified FNP.
It may take some extra thought processes for you and you’ll need to put the work in. The old ways have been whitewashed years ago. They are no longer acceptable.
FNP illiterate? You love to pick on stuff don’t you! FNP have endured, managed and thrived for over 65k years, I’m sure they know how to handle their affairs in a dignified and orchestrated fashion that is chock-a-block full of RESPECT for each and all others despite creed or race and for the environment that we all.. ALL! rely upon.
They do not need us to judge nor interfere with their ways.
If you want to pick on those that are illiterate, look no further than the lazy white folk who don’t give a fck about our precious environment. We are flailing aimlessly into the vortex of doom due to our greed and destruction of this precious earth we live and breathe upon.
The amazing culture and brilliance of FNP are integral to our survival. Don’t mess with it! Time to pull back all of that utter rubbish! Time to support the FNP instead of criticising FFS and try the use of encouragement… Cheers

I focus Tuesday, 24 Oct 2023 at 10:59pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
Great news that high rates of sexual abuse and neglect of children is just all made up, and some dirty political game.

Maybe we can fix the other issues too by just denying them and pretending they dont exist.

Such a simple solution, so much cheaper too.

33 reports / enquiries into this area since 1997, read that again yep 33 so what is the answer another enquiry / commission really?

This is Jacinda Prices plan B after saying No in other words no FI none nada.

Front line workers report they don't need another enquiry they need action and resources.

For the No voters conscience it's nice to vilify a minority by running the sexual abuse line when in fact its a complete dog act.

truebluebasher Wednesday, 25 Oct 2023 at 1:04am

Exclusive Island hideaway cruise for swellnet escapees!

~~~~`~~~~|~~~~/~~~~/|~~~~/(~~~~/(C~~~~/|(C......./|(C`...[yes )

(Yes) Oz Islands
84% Tiwi Islands
83% *Jervis Bay
75% Palm Island
74% Mornington Island
74% *Newcastle Gromz Booth (53% Seat)
73.5% *Groote Eylandt (Mobile Avg) Likely Higher %
70.2% Thursday Island
66.2% Lord Howe Island
66% *Surf Coast Booth (45% seat)
64% *Woolongong Gromz Booth (51% seat)
61.7% Christmas-Cocos-Keeling Islands
61% *Cable Beach Gromz Booth (28% seat)
59% *Antarctica (Neutral > Not Compulsory)
59% *Margaret River Gromz Booth (30% seat)
58.3% Bruny Island
54% *Lismore / Nth Coast Gromz Booth (32% seat)
53% Norfolk Island
51.3% *Macqaurie Island (Neutral > Not Compulsory)
50% *Moreton Island (50% Brisbane Booth)
50% Heard + McDonald Islands(Neutral > Not Compulsory)
.............................................................................................................................................
45.6% Flinders Island
42.2% Hamilton Island (Tourists)
39.6% Stradbroke Islands (Mixed)
32.7% King Island
31.2% *Rottnest Island (Cockburn Booth)
31% *Garden Island (Brand Booth)
29.5% Kangaroo Island
25% *Kgari Island WH (Trippers / Wide Bay Retirement Booths)
*Not indicative of Islanders or Town Squares!

Sending out an SOS to the World...

truebluebasher Wednesday, 25 Oct 2023 at 4:12am

Govt + AEC are both avoiding & censoring Voter Turnout numbers.
Crew will notice wiki have withdrawn...Record Low 79% Voter Turnout > Currently = 83.94%
Same ongoing turnout % figure was removed for NZ Election (re : Space provided)

tbb sticking with neutral if only to expose AEC [YES] Fun and Games...
Ask yerselves...when is the best time to send in yer clean men...Correct! When Oz least suspects!

All note the shock from Media about seeing initial record low Oz / NZ turnouts...(Wiki removed it!)
There won't be any hurry to reinstall upgrades until both Govts finish playing games.

AEC
Separate Enrolment figure 17,67,374 ... is kept well safe > far apart from Tally
Remove any progressive Voter Turnout % or numbers entirely.

Green Ant (Blog/s)
14th Oct : How might results come in...Small remote booths first...Norfolk Island timeline etc...
Unsure why Anthony or Media isn't rolling off Oz Territories / Islands (see above!)

17th Oct : Green Ant : " (I didn't get a chance!) to extract the Data for over aged 18 or deal with (Turnout issues), both of which reduce the % of 'Indigenous Voters' compared to Residents...
That is well loaded...

"(Total Voice Turnout) estimates : 18th Oct [86%] > 23rd Oct [87-89%] or 2-2.5m."
That is well massaged...

25th September : NT remote Aboriginal Polling Starts...
Drum-roll for record enrolled Indigenous turnout / vote tally!
After 1 month with record spend $450m + 100,000 Staff with whole of parliament expediency!
24th Oct : NT Voice indigenous counting struggles to reach 64.5%. (Incredibly slow!)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all...
Considering Anthony goes on about Reffo's being the quickest vote Tally of all!
Note! Zero ~ Covid / Floods / Fires / Cyclones of National concern

1,000 yr/ ago Voice took a few hours to "freely" smoke signals for any number of emergencies.
2023 ~ Voice now blows $450m Vape Rings over months to now further isolated lost tribes
Unfuckingbelievable people...Just blow up these ROBO Ai bureaucrats FFS!

WA Vote count is lagging at 79.4 > Qld is nearing 80.6%
Notice how other smaller states are 85% or 5%+ ahead of the big 3 remote indigenous States...

tbb already listed several concerns of low turnouts > challenging "Compulsory Voting results!"
AEC / Govt refuse to share updated turnout % but also refuse State % / Postal / Declaration counts
State tally is kept far from AEC Tally upgrade but strangely shared by ABC above...Huh!

Q : Why are AEC / Govt delaying or withholding Aboriginal Vote / State / Tally / Turnout.
Considering Anthony said these smaller booths are counted first.
Monday 16th - Tuesday 17th > Not many Votes were counted.
700000 Absent Votes + 600,000 inter division Pre Polls
18th Oct ~Another 250,000 Postal Votes count starts...

Jacinta : AEC are well suss & should keep outta Mobs secret business!

Ok! tbb sees anomalies & will run with Jacinta's claims..Huh! Are you fuckin' mad tbb!
With Anthony stalling Aboriginal turnout stats...tbb can fit Jacinta's narrative without bother!
Pretty sure tbb earlier dismissed Jacinta's general claims as they had no basis...just whinging!

tbb is prepared to be objective & run a ruler over LNP's spurious claims.
Mostly cause tbb outed recent suss biased AEC history...
https://www.facebook.com/aecourvoteourfuture/photos/pb.100069402750630.-...

* NT Fed / State / Local turnouts are Under 50% > record enrollment > 50% = Voice shame.
*All spin high Aboriginal Yes % but wot if that represents 75% of 45% turnout (Hide that!)
* UN wouldn't tolerate AEC / Govt fining mostly Indigenous for Not Voting...(Hague : Albo > Life!)
* Indigenous still have 13 Business Days to avoid being penalised & Albo being crucified!
* AEC / Govt can coach Indigenous until next Wed to return 'spare' Postals to sweat 50% turnout.
That could explain Aboriginal States delays...

https://antonygreen.com.au/how-might-the-referendum-results-come-in/

Anthony said they were backtracking & "Check counting all Sat' Votes"...they are sweating this...
Q: Would not then...these coached belated Votes swing towards Yes more than No? (Correct!)
Q: Would not then...these coached belated Votes comply & tally as less informal Votes? (Correct!)
Ok! Then get ready for this...direct from AEC.

AEC : ( Count) Sunday 15th Oct = No 60.9% Yes 38.87% (informal) 1.04%

Green Ant Bully : "Like, wot if we were to kick flip Mr Squiggle's Dic Pics !"
Miss Jane : (Sat > Wed re-counts) From Thurs > added 682,744 votes to Tues 23rd Tally.)
Bill Steam shovel : Hey that don't add up!
Blackboard : No 57.4% Yes 42.54% (informal 0.06%)
Important : tbb is only posting the weekly addition in order to out any anomaly in Vote %. (Yep!)

Ok...So we can see these remote late NT / WA Votes are weirdly narrowing down the margin!
Most frightfully telling of all is this ultra low run of saintly 445 informal of 682,744 votes.

First explain exactly just how impossible...445 / 682,744 informal votes! (1.04 mean Informal)
0.55% - 0.90% informal = Albo / Tanya + Dutto / Littleproud + Katter + CBD Greens'n'Teals
These are the Pro Team scores...how could any beat them with booth Slaves...
0.06% = Quaddie Vaxed Clean Teams are moping up...we mere mortals must keep our distance!
That's how Jacinta's AEC claim might play out...be hard to explain such a faultless run of informals!

tbb is not finished yet...we still gotta claw back these forgotten WA back counts...Wotz with that?
This is all about Time Penalties...(recall tbb ran with this one also, but requires an update!)
Blackout Period...
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Electoral...
Leaders led many Aussies to vote pre poll > well before Media Black Out and most by Polling day!
Kinda like everyone just breached the Media Ban before any noticed any ban.

We gotta run the Slomo cam on this one...see if any pick up on the fly in the ointment!
Albo delayed the known faster counting Reffo to breach into DST...knowing a likely WA spoil.
Green Ant's Blog : "ABC Results will pour in fast from 6:00pm > 3pm in the west.
"It's highly likely the Reffo will be decided before counting starts in WA ."
Fuck the Media Black ban > ABC called the Result 1+1/2 Hours before WA polls close.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-14/wa-votes-indigenous-voice-to-parl...
All locals expressed shock the result had been called so early...Official Yes event had not begun.
Resulting in only a handful turn out for the gig...ask the publican how that goes down!
Multiple campaign volunteers in Broome told the ABC having the Results flooding in may reduce people's motivation to vote late.

Ok! Now yer getting it....Why AEC + Govt are censoring all voter turnout & state % updates.

We're looking at multiple breaches that led to low turnout + awkward flip in recent vote counts.
Thinking ABC media breach > Directly led to Low Turnout + Sympathy (Guilt free YES votes)
That explains the later count shift toward Yes votes.
It is possible that knowing the result led to more decisive last minute WA voting.
Simply goin' thru the motions without nerves...one could not vote wrong either way! Too Easy!

So there ya have it...
Early pre polling > DST reffo early Black ban breach led to outing lower last minute WA turnouts!
The poor start with Booklets + fifo Day booths + Sorry business + Bushfires
All led to low Indigenous Turnouts...which may or not be furnished by 13 day belated deadline.
Either can be argued for '7.17% weekly total' flip toward Yes + run of faultless informal votes.
Happy to hear other reasons on wtf could do that to AEC vote count...

Anthony's blogs say these Postal flips can happen in reffo counts more so than Fed Elections...
Only he can't explain away just 455 informal votes of 682,744 votes...that's a professional Job!
Might not have to worry 'bout that censored Voter turnout after all...which one was that tbb?

Perfect Vote Laundering Track finds a home...{ The Members : Here come the Clean Men! }

Jelly Flater Wednesday, 25 Oct 2023 at 11:37am

;)

https://m.

Pop Down Wednesday, 25 Oct 2023 at 12:35pm

tbb
I am not surprised at all by the low voter turn out .

There has NEVER been an election like this referendum imho .
Should never have been promised , called or held ( should have been cancelled ).

I wonder how many Australians walked into vote thinking , I wish I didn't have to answer NO ?
I did .
A NO for a NO plan on the Monarchy was easy to say NO to , even though I would like an Ozzy Head of State .
This was terrible .

How many thought , stuff it , time for a protest vote ? I am not going to be forced to vote NO for something I would like to happen , if done properly , so I won't vote ( first time ever ) ..
How many didn't like the tone of the debate and said , stuff U , I am not getting involved in this argument ?

Surprised any place in OZ is slower counting this vote .
It was just a yes or no .

Green Ant ?

truebluebasher Thursday, 26 Oct 2023 at 1:12am

(1830's Australian Treaty Era) credit to Anna.
British Colonial Office directions were to make treaties :
1832 Tasmanian Governor George Arthur begged the Colonial Office to establish Treaties.
1835 NSW Governor quashed John Bateman wishing to buy land from Indigenous @ Port Philip
1836 WA : Colonel P.C.Irwin of Swan River Colony...(Perth)
"Treaty should be negotiated between the parties as a measure of healing & pacification!"

Well before bullshit foreign Constitution muck our Aussie leaders campaigned for Treaties!

(Firstly!) tbb apologizes for divisive [L] Qldurrz run of cowardly bully back flips on Reffo / Treaty!

Aug 2022 Qld Statement of Commitment ... "This Journey is not for the Timid"

24th May 2023 : Qld LNP Leader D. Crisafulli insists he will "absolutely not" roll back Indigenous Treaty Legislation if he becomes Premier next year, despite facing intense pressure from his party to do so...(Sky News Desk : Not fit to be leader...shit down his throat!)

Lets see how long a Qld [L] party Leader could stay true before he cried & peed his pants!

19 Oct 2023 After Voice defeat >
Typical [L] Trendy cowardly backflip as Crisafullofit does a Triple Dutto Abo [L] Floppy Back Flip.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-19/david-crisafulli-backflips-on-pat...
"Hey! Look at me...I'm a piece of worthless shit with zero integrity that divides race to start wars!"
99.99999% [L] owned & run Qld media > { Our Hero Crisafullofhimself }
ONE OF US ... Qldurr News watching Polls Skyrocket...Go get'm Boys!

Crisafullashit : "Tears up [L] Treaty!" Calls for Heavy Police Presents for back up!"(Correct Spelling)

Sky : "Someone with guts... Police Union Thug & #1 ALP hater ...Mr Cranky."
Mr Cranky :"Bloody inner city latte sippers can shove their bloody woke sissy Treaty up their arse!"
Govt should once again do as I say or else...feel the full force of my conservative Policing Powers.
Sky : "All credit to you for yer bravery in extorting & bullying the Qld Govt...please keep it up!"

Not sure if Qld Cop Mobster needs coaching on spreading misery & promoting evil & disharmony!
He's the only Qldurr that can cast gloom over Doomsday Dutto who banks in Mr Leader's QBank

Consensus...tbb can provide 2 opposing lots : 99.99% Murdoch's Zombies (vs) .01% Bloggers

Murdoch's Mob : "Luv our evil bastard!"
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=729269442567164&set=a.365716902255755

Reddit : "Ignorant bigoted C..t"
https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/17fu4h8/police_union_boss_co...

Premier : 'Unhelpful & Divisive!'
Council of Civil Liberties : 'All other Lobbyists have to register ...why not [L] #1 Thug Mouthpiece!'

[Disclaimer] tbb's bro is a career Cop in largest frontline Qld Indigenous region!"
Not disrespecting Qld Cops just evil [L] Mobster Doomsday merchants that weaponize them.

While Mr Leavers was busy as usual extorting another ALP Govt and hating Aborigines
Same time of day just over the way...
40yr Aboriginal was witnessed fleeing from Cops > 4 shots ring out in front of Shops / Day-care!
Man is in hospital as Shoppers / Familes / Kids freaking out & crying...
(Treaty...Qldurr style...we gave the Abo a head start!) With a capital A!

https://www.facebook.com/10NewsQLD/videos/1759427874532300/
https://www.9news.com.au/national/police-shooting-logan-man-shot-treated...

Voice sorrow as #1 Bully Cop tears up Qld Treaty with blood on his hands = (State of Emergency!)
Should this blow up...pray it doesn't.
Say : You Lost yer Voice & don't know about secret [L] divisive men's business we never talk about!

We Qldurrz are not racist & never saw our Media fuel this.(Again!)...just another day in Paradise!

Qldurrz, racist one day, zenaphobic the next! (xenophobic!) Yeah, them bastards are next!

sameaswas Thursday, 26 Oct 2023 at 11:32am

@ pop down, i concur with your view and would add it was a vote against the ppl who forced it upon us all includeing the fnp.

it is not true that they wanted a voice, it was forced upon them by the n.p. and m.l. caball and the carrot on the stick was in the 26 pages...$$$

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