The United States(!) of A
FFS why are people so angry at the minute? Why can’t people have a different opinion and be able to proffer that view without being shouted down? Are we really that tribal now? As far as I know I’m the only one here that is in hard lockdown, I can count the surfs I’ve had this year on my fingers and some toes and wake up each morning looking for the positive in the day. Some of you need to just chill out and especially you down Anglesea way.
I don't sense much anger here Guy. Maybe there is a bit more hardball than some might like, but that's not anger and when people raise important issues it's inevitable. Like everyone else, here's hoping things improve rapidly down your way and you can make up for some of those lost hours in the water.
.... I was befriended at the shops this morning by this bloke in his mid 70s while waiting for coffee outside the cafe. Turns out he wants someone to put a bullet in Dan Andrews head.
I was genuinely shocked someone would say such a thing and all I said was no you don’t mean that and he was off saying it’s all Dan Andrews fault, the economy is ruined because of him etc etc.
I should of turned my back but instead said I disagreed and that’s when he started yelling at me accusing me of being part of the problem and that’s when I did turn my back on him saying nothing further.
As he drove off in his BMW 4WD he yelled out I’m right and you fucking know I am.
True story ... how or why is someone that old that angry with the world he picks an argument with a complete stranger?
Maybe you have a kind face Guy?
The kind you want to pick a fight with.
Defelcted anger Guy. Probably had an argument with his wife which furthger fuelled his resentment at not being able to hang out at the bowling club.. You just provided him with a convenient target.
Guy ....I imagine there’d be some people doing it REAL hard under lockdown . Who knows what sort of stressed out environments some are expected to exist within. I read stories about crew living in share houses of convenience, 5 virtual strangers who share nothing in common and wouldn’t normally see each other due to rosters and timetables, now forced to spend every minute of every day with each other. You can’t imagine Mr BMW being in that situation but he could be experiencing the lowest point of his life : Indebted to the eyeballs , failing business , loveless marriage and 23 hours per day with a shrew who won’t forgive him a second of it all.
Maybe ?
Then again, maybe he was just a cock.
Stay strong, mate. The big blue ocean isn’t going anywhere. It’ll always be there for you.
BB....racism isn’t about power. That’s just your ( incorrect ) opinion bolstering a fashionable ( and incorrect) revision of its meaning.
If a yobbo Aussie sat at a pub swilling beers in the middle of China , surrounded by 1.6 billion Chinese and started saying derogatory race based things about them , its racism . Same as if the Chinese guy working the bar at the pub in China started saying derogatory race based things about the lone Aussie.
Claiming it’s about power is just a way to excuse culpability in one direction. A technique used to weaponise racism for other purposes .
This is what I said.
"The racism of the powerless against the powerful is impotent. The racism of the powerful against the weaker is much more dangerous."
"BB....racism isn’t about power. That’s just your ( incorrect ) opinion bolstering a fashionable ( and incorrect) revision of its meaning.
If a yobbo Aussie sat at a pub swilling beers in the middle of China , surrounded by 1.6 billion Chinese and started saying derogatory race based things about them , its racism . Same as if the Chinese guy working the bar at the pub in China started saying derogatory race based things about the lone Aussie."
Obviously racism has levels. These examples are of interpersonal racism and prejudice. Some would argue that they're just prejudice, not racism. Systemic racism, and we all know what that is by now, has everything to do with power.
"Systemic racism, and we all know what that is by now..."
Big assumption that Hiccups.
I reckon a few people here think systemic racism is something that doesn't exist so they don't need to do anything about it.
Speaking of which
"“Here, right now, [as of Aug 18], one in 1125 Black Americans have died from coronavirus. That statistic is just incredibly disturbing. And there's another statistic: if Black Americans had died at the same rate as White Americans, it is estimated that about 19 500 Black people would still be alive.” "
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31831-6/fulltext
@Guy
That was you?...Dad just rang me and told me almost the exact same story ;P
What are you saying Indo?
Argh guess that went over your head, i was taking the piss, suggesting the grumpy old guy that hates Dan Andrews was my father.
Systemic racism does not exist in Australia.
"Systemic racism does not exist in Australia"
Oh? It doesn't? That's that sorted then.
I knew that Indo - cast out the bait and I’m calling it hook, line and sinker :))
" Systemic racism does not exist in Australia."
Wrong again.
"Racism is a key determinant of the health of Indigenous Australians that may explain the unremitting gap in health and socioeconomic outcomes between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. "
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-019-66...
Systemic racism does not exist in Australia.
Unless you are claiming a conspiracy theory which states there is a cabal of like minded individuals who operate at the highest levels of government, business and community who convene in secret to discuss their plans to subjugate and oppress minorities.
Is this the case ?
Id honestly like to know the answer to that Blowin.
"Is this the case ?"
"Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an organization."
Insitutional racism does not imply a conspiracy. Now why not try doing your own research BEFORE you post? It would save us all a lot of time.
@Guy
I did like your story though.
BTW. I whinged about Dan for issues like allowing protest and quarantine issues, but I'm not actually one of those people that are currently whinging about him, i don't think he is doing a bad job at the moment, it's now just what it is, and what has to be done just has to done, crazy that people are calling for restrictions to lift before numbers are reduced to a lower number.
But i guess maybe that's easy for me to say as im not in stage 4 area and not financially affected (well not yet)
BB....did you even read your own link ?
You are claiming evidence that the entire structure of modern Australia is knowingly and conscientiously urging against the success of indigenous Australians based on a phone survey which rang 40,000 victorians of which 387 claimed indigenous heritage ?
387 people who CLAIM indigenous heritage.
Have you ever answered a phone survey....?
I thought you were a man of science ? Well , I thought you were a man who taught year 8 students about how infinite human population increase has no effect on the environment .....
"Systemic racism does not exist in Australia.
Unless you are claiming a conspiracy theory which states there is a cabal of like minded individuals who operate at the highest levels of government, business and community who convene in secret to discuss their plans to subjugate and oppress minorities.
Is this the case ?"
It's not a theory, conspiratorial or otherwise. But you know that.
BB : “ "Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an organization."
Are you saying that systemic racism is normal practice within government, business and community in Australia ?
Normal practice ?
I guess your Japanese wife must have a hard time going down the shops then hey ? Most shopkeepers would refuse to serve her or abuse her , yeah ? The government persecuted her based on race ? Police pull her over specifically because she’s Asian ? She is systematically shunned by your neighbours ?
If she is not , which I would confidently state is the case , then systemic racism is not normal or institutional.
Hiccup ....it’s not even a theory . It’s a supposition with no evidentiary backing whatsoever.
It’s a trending concept amongst the social rejects. Nothing more.
Kind of like ghost or spirits some people swear they exist they swear they feel their presence even seen them but never any real physical evidence, most us don't believe in them, but we still cant prove ghost or spirits don't exist.
Hey Indo meant to add this to my last post ..... boomshakalaka
Ha ha ha, here they go deeper and deeper into the bullshit to try and justify their ever expanding ignorance.
"Structural racism is a serious problem in Australia.
At three per cent of the population, Indigenous people are 29 per cent of the Australian prison population. As Cape York Partnership founder Noel Pearson identified, Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated people on the planet.
Between 1990 and 1995, Indigenous people were 16.5 times more likely than non-Indigenous people to die in custody. But, almost 30 years since the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, the Indigenous incarceration rate has doubled.
These facts are more than just the product of a few racist ‘bad apples’ in the police force; they are clear evidence of the structural inequities that persist in the systems of Australian governance."
What have you got to support your efforts to deny the reality.three fifths of fuck all as usual.
....and yes my wife quite regularly encounters rudeness and prejudice so go fuck yourself you life turd.
Cause and correlation.
You never did get your head around the difference did you ?
BTW ...could you please describe exactly how your wife is negatively impacted by the government’s systemic and normalised racism against minorities ?
If it’s systemic and normalised it must be an everyday intrusion into her life . It’s a wonder she can walk the streets. Just tell us about the police harassment for a start. You’ve said that the police in Australia are racist and that’s why BLM is relevant here . Tell us details of her persecution by police based on her race .
Or the post office . Or the RTA . Or any other governmental department.
She must struggle ?
As you may have noticed, I haven't been here long. I can only conclude that D00D is trolling hard at this point with his UTTER bullshit. Surely he hasn't been peddling these ideas for a while? Insanity.
Facto
Blowfly please tell me you are not that stupid to think incarnation rates are so high because of anything to do with racism?
It's obviously an extremely complex topic but to simplify it, it comes down to one thing only, Indigenous people commit more crimes. (In NT at least the majority are serving prison terms for domestic violence)
Thats just reality of the situation
As for deaths in custody, yeah great cherry pick one short period where there was a peak in indigenous deaths in custody.
Here is the much longer picture, as you can see we could also cherry pick periods where non indigenous deaths in custody were much higher.
BTW. Notice the trend is actually for a lower rate for indigenous deaths in custody (i believe since then that trend has continued)
".......incarnation rates are so high because of anything to do with racism?"
Ha ha ha ha, well I suppose it does, since Christians believe in only one while the Hindus believe in lots incarnation, reincarnation over and over.
Oh thank you Indo with slyppery not around this evening I missed my usual happy hour laugh.
What was that you were saying about making assertions without evidence and then avoiding the topic , BB ?
Please list the repetitious persecution your Asian wife endures from Australian government due to her being Asian . Feel free to list the shops that refuse her service based on her race. Naming and shaming is the only way to deal with the normalised oppression she suffers as a minority.
It must be very hard for her to be surrounded by systemic racism on the South Coast of NSW.
Guys, how about giving it a rest, hate to see it go further down the rabbit hole from here.
Oh FFS,
There's no shortage of academic studies about institutional racism in Australia.
https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=systemic+racism+australia&hl=en&...
It's just that some people are wilfully ignorant. They like to live in a fantasy land where it's just as easy for black people to get job interviews and rental apartments as white people, and the coppers treat everyone equally.
.
Didn't take long for VL to turn yet ANOTHER thread into a racism shit show.
No mate it was cdawg who made some smart arse comment about the BLM protests thast started us on racism.
"Didn't take long for VL to turn yet ANOTHER thread into a racism shit show."
Didn't start it, but what can I say, I just can't stand racist dogs.
"Facto"
sure is, his usual condescending shitshow shows, ...and his tendency and patterns of capitalisation are as predictable and triggered as a brietbart troll....
constantly
don't those pesky (dated) numbers from blm that show more white people die in custody than blackfellas show systemic racism?
What I'm curious about BB is that you belittled Indo for getting a word wrong knowing full well that he doesn't have the most spectacular grasp of written English, but you didn't address the graph he put up contradicting your fact?
Looking at that graph (and I have no idea of the source) but it appears to me that over the same period you quoted, an indigenous person was twice as likely to die in custody than non-indigenous, not the 16 times more likely that you stated. Happy to be corrected as maths is not my strong suit.
Also, if Indo's graph is as it presents, it appears he was correct in noting a continuous downward trend with death rates about the same if not slightly higher for non-indigenous prisoners.
Again, happy to be corrected but have to say, I know you have very little respect for me but comments like yours above don't exactly increase my respect for you.
systemic racism that has been cooked into the system to address 'systemic racism'
initiatives, programs, learnings, efforts...
that are working...
"What I'm curious about BB is that you belittled Indo for getting a word wrong knowing full well that he doesn't have the most spectacular grasp of written English, but you didn't address the graph he put up contradicting your fact?"
Mate if you can't spell a word central to the issue you are talking about and can't be bothered to spell check it the chances are that your contribution will be of the same standard as your spelling. The same thing applies to data. If someone lacks the concentration or interest to read it accurately then their contribution is likely to be irrelevant.....so
"Between 1990 and 1995, Indigenous people were 16.5 times more likely than non-Indigenous people to die in custody. But, almost 30 years since the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, the Indigenous incarceration rate has doubled."
Key point 1990 -1995. Indo's graph shows the the same data over a much longer period including a spike over the period 1990-1995.
It is misleading to publish data on death rates as a percentage without noting that incarceration rates for indigenous people are extremely high. Indigenous people are 3.3% of the general population but 28% of the prison population, which means that even at that lower rate they are still overall at higher risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians_and_crime
It's not misleading at all.
It's based on per 100 prisoners and as we can clearly see rates are similar or even lower per 100 prisoners, if there was a problem with systemic racism in our prisons this would be reflected in the death rate.
Incarceration rates are a completely different topic and a very complex one, incarceration rates aren't high because of systemic racism, they are high because unfortunately indigenous people in many areas of Australia are doing more crime, most of this crime is actually in their own communities against each other and most of it domestic violence related.
You could fudge the figures and not put these people (almost all men) in prison, but the only people that would suffer is the women and children that are their victims.
"The Australian Institute of Criminology, in a paper by Jenny Mouzos, says that from 1989 until 2000, 15.1 per cent of all homicide victims nationally were Aboriginal, as were 15.7 per cent of all homicide offenders — and yet Aboriginal people were less than 3 per cent of the population."
"Jacinta Price wrote in The Daily Telegraph on June 9: “In 2018 in the NT alone, 85 per cent (4355) of Aboriginal victims of crime knew the offender. Half were victimised by partners. Aboriginal women made up 88 per cent (2075) of those victims.”
Aboriginal children were 5.9 per cent of the population but five times more likely to be hospitalised after an assault than non-indigenous children. “Between 2007 and 2011, 26 per cent of all deaths among Aboriginal children … were … (from) abuse injury,” she wrote. “The leading cause of child death between 2014 and 2017 … was suicide. This is a quarter of all child suicides in Australia (85 of 357)."
The wiki article barely touches on the causes of death in custody and only mentions two notable deaths as a result of police or prison staff negligence. It did mention a possible contributor to deaths in custody is in the disparity of the standard of care afforded prisoners. While the article is focused on indigenous prisoners, it admits that the amount of deaths is roughly the same if not higher for non-indigenous. In addition, if the incarceration rate is disproportionately skewed towards non-indigenous, I would argue that as a percentage you are less likely to die in prison if you are indigenous.
And, not to get into the whole background which is another worthy discussion, the vast majority of violent crime is within their own communities.
Finally, if Indo was being graded sure, but I don't think the condescension is warranted. You could have taken the high road and simply pointed out the right word. That's just my opinion.
".......incarceration rates are a completely different topic"
Not at all. If you stand two people beside each other, one indigenous the other non-indigenous, the indigenous person is still more much more likely to die in custody than the non-indigenous one. Any presentation of the data that does not include that fact is misleading. If you don't understand why that is so then you probably didn't pay much attention in Maths classes.
As for the rest of your data, it should make us all hang our heads in shame. Crime does not happen in a vacuum. It has causes. This does not diminish individual responsibility. It does mean that social structures play a big part. To fully understand any event it is necessary to trace its causes beyond its immediate circumstances. If someone is murdered execution style the causes are unlikely to be found around the time of the death.
There is a strong theme in Australian culture that wants to deny this when it comes to indigenous issues. There is the pretence that everything is fine now and that indigenous and non-indigenous start on a level playing field and so crime is all down to individual responsibility. This used to pass in the public bar....before indigenous people were allowed in. (Date? Extremely variable depending on location.) This is not just bullshit is toxic turdery designed to excuse, mislead and maintain white privilege..
Australia has deeply entrenched structural racism that is the major contributor to indigenous crime rates. If you disagree, don't tell me, try your ideas out on some of your local indigenous mates. Try telling them that being indigenous is not a disadvantage or that historical oppression has no impact on their lives today. Good luck with that.
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank