The United States(!) of A

190 nations spanning every race under the sun with evidence of racism in every single one but according to Vic Stupid it’s far and away a white thing.

Token nod to China which made him feel dirty for including. Got to think you appear even handed .....even when you so obviously are not .

Vic, you've thrown enough darts to hit one or two, but the onus is on you to provide evidence of someone's racism when you add them to your list, not the other way around. You really do exemplify the issues discussed here!

IMHO anyone who seeks to divide people on skin colour is racist and you VL do this endlessly, always trying to create an us and them mentality with terrible generalisations on people or issues, people like you are just super divisive.

Even left leaning posters here have called you out on trying to make anything and everything about race, people cant even have a mature discussion about immigration/population growth without you trying to make it about race or calling others racist..

blowin, you are quite simply the dumbest person I have ever debated on the internet.
My list reflects the most dangerous and prevalent forms of racism at this point in history: White nationalism and Han Chinese racism.
You like to pretend that racism only exists when white people are the victim, (remember your idiotic argument about the fatal brawl between the indigenous and white man?), but please show me someone on that list that isn't a racist.
Or are you going to be like that time you defended the guy who murdered two people in Kenosha and defend the indefensible?

"You really do exemplify the issues discussed here!"

Doesn't he just.
Again, imagine ol' Vic at the head of the mob, deciding who's a racist and who's a bigot, and so who gets "deplatformed" or whatever.

"IMHO anyone who seeks to divide people on skin colour is racist and you VL do this endlessly"
BS Caspar, I don't divide people by skin colour at all. I divide them into two groups: normal people and racist cunts.
It's about character not skin pigment.

"but please show me someone on that list that isn't a racist."

Strawman.

And the fact that you've got two groups with no shades of grey shows how ignorant and dangerous you and people like you really are.

YOU are the problem with modern public discourse.

"You really do exemplify the issues discussed here!"

"Doesn't he just.
Again, imagine ol' Vic at the head of the mob, deciding who's a racist and who's a bigot, and so who gets "deplatformed" or whatever."

Genuinely frightening. Also sadly already happening with others like him.

Geez blokes, you're a bit slow on the uptake. Treating people badly based on their skin colour, race, religion or sexuality is wrong. How hard is that to understand?
Show me again anyone on my list that doesn't do that.

BTW. I don't care what names you call me, but I'm curious what is this Casper thing?

How on earth did you come up with Casper?...am i a friendly ghost now?

I'm more interested in the two groups.

Black, white? With us, against us? Left, right? North, south? Gay, straight? Terrorist, freedom fighter? Fascist, fascist?

You're more of an enigma Indo.

Caspar is a character on Mad as Hell.

Is that a tv show?

edit: Just watched a bit. Can't see the humour myself. You can have it.

Hmm never heard of it.

So any of you blokes want to add or take anyone off that list of racists?

If we were all on a fishing charter together, and this was the way we all conversed with each other, I know the first person to be thrown over the side.

Racism is fundamentally about power. The greater the power differential between the races, the greater the potential for toxic racism. In America and Australia extreme power differentials and toxic racist behaviour existed over a long period of time. America massacred indigenous people, imported slaves from Africa then progressed from actual slavery to violent oppression, the virtual slavery of their prison system and Jim Crow. White power was maintained by frequent murderous lynchings, brutal policing and political disenfranchisment. If the 1960s brought improvement and hope, there was not enough of the first to sustain the second.

In Australia there were widespread massacres of indigenous people. They were denied citizenship, the right to welfare and equal pay for most of our history. Access to education was restricted and opportunities to do anything beyond menial work were extremely limited. In cities and towns they were unable to purchase or even rent in most areas. Australia also imposed the White Australia policy which lasted until 1966. Reading historical documents of the era the racism is virulent, blatant and directed broadly but most particularly at Asians.

The point of looking at the history of racism is that we live in its shadow and to highlight the truth that while all forms of racism are wrong, they are not equal. The racism of the powerless against the powerful is impotent. The racism of the powerful against the weaker is much more dangerous.

In Australia we have had the wake up call of the Christchurch massacre. Such people do not arise in a vacuum. They arise when racism is tolerated and excused and encouraged by shallow ill informed commentary. We also saw the rapid rise of aggressive racist behaviour to people of Asian appearance this year.

If we go to the heart of the matter there is, in both Australia and America, a residual core of hard core racists who are enabled by others pushing the idea that racism is a problem from the past that, against all the evidence, everyone in our society has equal opportunity and is treated equally by the law. To say that is a lie.

Spot on blowfly. When a minority person is racist against the majority, he or she just deals themselves out of opportunities. The other way round is way more serious.

Hey blowfly, Remember when Adam Goodes was called an "ape" and he called out the girl who racially vilified him. Did the mob say, "gee you can't call an indigenous man an ape because it's racist"?
Of course not. Rather than confronting the racism, they attacked the victim of it. "Goodes is a bully" they screamed. There's a section of Australian society that just can't handle anyone (especially if they are a POC) holding up the mirror.
Now, I've listed a bunch of racist people and organisations. Did the usual suspects try and defend anyone on that list? Did they say, "hey, there is a problem with racism that needs fixing"? Of course not, they took the Adam Goodes option and went straight for the abuse.
The usual suspects are very fragile. They simply can't cope when others highlight racism in Australia. Deny, Deny, Deny, Abuse is the standard response. It's kind of a pathetic way to go through life.

such an earnest wanker

Wow sypkan.
When I wrote "The usual suspects are very fragile. They simply can't cope when others highlight racism in Australia. Deny, Deny, Deny, Abuse is the standard response. It's kind of a pathetic way to go through life."
And you responded with "such an earnest wanker".
Thanks for proving my point so effectively.

no one gives a fuck about your list, because you made it, why would anyone want to engage with you in your little game of virtue signal race baiting bingo?

its tedious and tiresome

 "gee you can't call an indigenous man an ape because it's racist"?

I think you'll find the vast majority of 'the mob' did actually come to this conclusion, yet morons like you will argue until the cows come home that the exact opposite happened...

hyping and feathering your own twisted little nest to maintain your moral hightower position of righteous shoutyness?

you are a grifter, of sorts...

its your tone and absolute lack of self awareness brains

Right or wrong, people turned on Goodes because of the girls age, a grown man pointing out a young girl to the rest of Australia, society doesn't see it as acceptable for a grown man to interact with a strangers young child like that especially a girl, and yes its about power a strong grown man is powerful a young girl is not both physically and mentally.

If it had been an adult or even a teenage boy people would have reacted completely different and would have supported Goodes 100%

BTW. That doesn't make what she said acceptable even if she didnt know the racist aspect behind what she was saying, obviously extremely poor parenting allowing her to say such things but i expect what she said was what she heard them yelling out..

You had a lot to say about Adam Goodes at the time Indo, none positive, echoing what Bolt and the usual right wing suspects levelled at him.

I've grown up in Oz as an immigrant.
Been told to 'fuck of and go back to where i came from',since the 70's.
Funniest thing is I've never heard it from an Indigenous/Aboriginal.
You get sick of inbred,corn fed bogan's running their mouths.
I fully support Goodes!

My kids are mixed race.The school they attend has a good reputation.
Since kindy they've been telling me about bullies and racist comment's over the past few years that you'd think were from a prison yard in the 70's.
Teachers are good,all modern and switched on but it ain't the same in da sand pit.

What's most disappointing is I totally expected the racism.
What's most rewarding is the martial arts my kids know has really been a eye opener for the racist bullies!

That’s fucked your kids are going through that in this day and age troppo.
Being a new father recently I hope one thing I teach my kids is how to accept everyone and be inclusive of everyone. Kids shouldnt be growing up having to worry about that shit these days.

troppo dichotomy,
It's a shit state of affairs when kids take their cues from their racist parents.

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” Mark Twain.

You're intellectually dishonest Vic, with your strawman and your ducking and weaving.

The question was, who gets to decide who or what is racist or bigoted?

Sounds like your answer is you, am I right?

Owl Chapman's definition of a local="some loser that hasn't got his shit together to go travel"

Cheers everyone.

Andy M, Seriously dude, don't use the term "strawman" when it's obvious you have no idea what it means. It makes you look very silly.
"The question was, who gets to decide who or what is racist or bigoted?" I answered that 4 hours ago you muppet. Here it is again.
Racism and bigotry is "Treating people badly based on their skin colour, race, religion or sexuality".
It's not a difficult definition, and there should be widespread support from across the political spectrum to oppose bigotry in all its' forms. Unfortunately that hasn't happened since Howard took over as leader of the opposition back in 95.
I will tell you who doesn't get to decide who is, and who is not, a racist. Racist dogs like Pauline Hanson who start heaps of sentences with, "I'm not a racist but..."

how is it that the biggest idiot in the village is constantly, and I mean constantly! calling other people stupid, dumb, idiot, etc.?

did I mention constantly?

I find it quite offensive

but I let it go... because just yesterday he said blowin was.. '....the dumbest person I've ever debated in the internet...'

then got owned by andym just above, ...and andym didn't even need to reply...

that kind of self delusionment ain't healthy, dangerous, best avoided, look away...

seriously dude work on your vocabulary

or your tone, or your delivery, or self awareness, or temper, or anger, or narcicism, or hate, or one eyedness, or hubris, or arrogance, or general attitude...

or all of the above

but one at a time

one track

+1

Factotum. It’s called wilful ignorance and it’s easier for the RWFWs to play silly semantic games rather than admit a problem.
Troppo says his kids are being racial bullied. Did these RWFWs offer any sympathy? Did they admit there was a problem? Of course not, they went MIA. How utterly gutless.

+2

100%

Just so aggressive, at least try to tone it down a little and be a tad diplomatic sometimes.

First of all Vic, you were creating a strawman, feel free to look up the definition before you go insulting people.
Second, we’ve got some very obvious examples of racism in Vic’s list.
I mean, if someone says “I’m not hiring him because he’s black”, well that’s an easy one to condemn.
But the overall question I’m asking is to consider less obvious scenarios.
Is it racist to consider Captain Cook to be one of the greatest navigators and explorers the world has ever seen?
In this town I used to live in, the early white fellas planted Norfolk Island pines in pairs.
The local black fellas don’t particularly like what they signify and would like them cut down.
Is it racist to resist against 100 year old trees getting cut down?
And back to my point - who decides these things?
Shrill, feverish people like Vic and Facto who only see in (pardon the pun) black and white?
Binary thinkers who can’t stand any real discussion?

Andy M.
You've made the ridiculous accusation that my list of ten racists people/organisations is a strawman argument on multiple occasions now.
Straw-manning is when someone makes up another person's argument and then takes it/them apart. There you go big fella, I've shown you the definition. I won't hold my breath for an apology though.

"Is it racist to consider Captain Cook to be one of the greatest navigators and explorers the world has ever seen?"

Posing a question like this is logically problematic since the two facts are unrelated and can both be true without any inherent contradiction. Sloppy thinking!

In the second case it would probably come down to the manner of the opposition. If the case for preserving the trees was put in a manner derogatory to local indigenous culture it could well be racist. On the other hand the case could be put respectfully in which case it would not be racist.

I’m fully aware of the nature of the first question Blowfly, that’s why I proposed it.
Unfortunately, there are some who would have a problem with any praise of Cook.
I’m questioning the logic of those who have simplistic knee jerk reactions to issues which are worthy of deeper discussion.

Fair enough Andy. The usual problem on these issues is that the defenders of historical figures involved in the slave trade, massacres and other forms of violent racist oppression tend to either deny or diminish the racism. I don't see it so much from the other side. Given the history of European colonialism and oppression over several hundred years and the abundance of worthy targets of their anger, why would people target relatively innocent figures?

Vic, your strategy is 1) aggressively steamroll your argument, laced with insults to the counter position and deliver subjective views presented as fact. 2) When someone ignores the insults and drills into exactly what you are saying, you shift the argument to something else entirely.

The ridiculous introduction of your list perfectly demonstrates point 2 in action. Creating a new argument and goading others to attack that instead of the original one is exactly the purpose of a straw man. Stop getting carried away and thinking that a lack of response signifies that you are in the right. It doesn't.

Secondly, the point made about your polarised view of the world is valid. There is no debate on important matters anymore because people like you can't accept that the world is more nuanced than your arbitrary division of people into different camps suggests.

Thirdly, the liberal and often erroneous use of accusations such as racism, of which you engage, damages the cause of those experiencing real racism by diminishing the gravity of the accusation. Let's reserve the word for those that denigrate others on the basis of their race, not expand it to include proponents of secure borders for example.

cdawg.
Thanks for your post but strawmanning is not, and has never been, "Creating a new argument and goading others to attack that instead of the original one"

It occurs when someone takes another person's argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.

I will give you an example. blowin / DSDS argues that I don't read Vic Yemeni's posts because he has dark skin. It's complete BS, but blowin uses the argument to portray me as a racist.

Listing racists and racist organisations is not a strawman argument. Do try and keep up.

It is considering what we were talking about.
Your perspicacity is fucking shithouse.

“Stop getting carried away and thinking that a lack of response signifies that you are in the right. It doesn’t.”

Sorry to disagree dawg but my long experience with the posters who crticise Vic is exactly the opposite. They will keep posting crap until they realise that they have nowhere to go…..then disappear for a while before resuming their barrage of toxic bullshit, unsupported assertion and unsupported opinion on another thread.

“There is no debate on important matters anymore because people like you can't accept that the world is more nuanced than your arbitrary division of people into different camps suggests.”

Well actually there is considerably more debate on important matters than ever before. Social media is full of it. Every possible opinion is out there and every possible response to it; on and on ad infinitum. And the most fundamental division here is not at all arbitrary. It is between those who make coherent arguments backed up by evidence from credible sources and the tribe of bullshit merchants who specialise in shooting their mouths of first then, if ever, looking for evidence to support their essentially emotionally driven diatribes.

“ Let's reserve the word for those that denigrate others on the basis of their race, not expand it to include proponents of secure borders for example.”

No, let’s not. Let’s recognise that Australia has a long history of extreme racism involving great violence particulary against indigenous people. Let’s remember that a significant part of our current wealth is based on the historical racist exploitation of indigenous and islander labour. Let’s think about the continuity of that racism through the White Australia Policy and into the present day when numerous people were attacked for being of Asian appearance. Let’s think about the kind of casual racism that causes my wife and many of her Asian friends to regularly experience rudeness and be made to feel unwelcome in public places. Let’s consider the attempt to limit the debate about racism to the areas comfortable to the white majority as the shameful shit it is.