Interesting stuff
Twin towers was sus as fuck
like the Architects & Engineers? Surely left wing and right wing nutjobs respectively.
Anyway, watch this, consider its authenticity, and then make up your own mind:
then this:
then a rebuttal:
At the risk of opening another can o' worms, Andy M, what exactly do those "reasonable professional people" have "serious concerns" about?
Just steak and potatoes please,no veg thanks.......duhh
I don't mind if my government tracks my every move...I've done nothing!
put your money in the bank.what if it all got burnt up in a bush fire?really??puke....vomit.....spew!!
leaving countries out of this,some people are just dreaming dreamers...
Al Qaeda targeted more places than the twin towers.Trained for it, Lots of witnesses end of story.
Adam12.
Thousands of architects and engineers.
Not usually the people you’d associate with the far right or left or conspiracy theories.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architects_%26_Engineers_for_9/11_Truth
Thanks VJ. I’ve only just been able to get back into an excercise regime after being out of action for about 2 years and am at the age where any lapse has a surprising effect on fitness.
Should’ve known there’d be no short cuts
I love all those conspiracy theory videos, but the ones l like best is the conspiracy theory busting videos on youtube, there is some really good ones that deal with all the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Also a real good docco on the construction of the twin towers and how it was totally different construction and design to other buildings at the time and explains how and why it collapsed etc.
I think this might be it
There's a bit of (former) professional interest in this one, as I worked OH&S in the built environment. The twin towers were built in the 60's/70's where asbestos was very liberally used as a fire suppressant, and insulation (and well, it could be in almost everything right down to floor tiles and incinerettes - and AC ducting millboard!) I looked into their construction (they were massive) and the outer frame was load bearing, with floors suspended within on metal frames (iirc). These metal frames would be vulnerable to fires, so they were thickly coated with an azzy type foam. Treatment of this problem might be ongoing, costly removals. Also you'd have to watch to see if the foam substance would degrade over time, becoming fibrous, or falling off in sections, risking the overall fireproofing and structure of the floors as well as exposure. Maybe we were better off with pressed tin ceilings and horse-hair insulation!
Here's an afterward:
https://www.veritas-consulting.co.uk/blog/911-the-ongoing-threat-from-as...
Here's a fact checker going over the conspiracy theory that the towers had asbestos problems that would be costly, and thus sinister things were said to have happened.
http://www.911myths.com/html/losing_money_at_the_wtc_.html
I don't have an opinion on this part of it myself. All I know is if I'd got the job to survey them (despite the risks, which you mitigated) it would have been a wonder of the world to do something that big - and take longer than marketing would have quoted! Imagine the views from the upper floors...
Cheers Fliplid, hope you got to read my post before I edited it, I was very lucky. Coming back after 6 months out, I started very slowly and doubted myself for quite some time. But I've built up to about 5-6ft now, could go bigger I think.
@Ben and Blowin re TP on sold to China. It's the most plausible reason to me over all the ridiculous ones I've read/heard.
I actually thought all this empty shelves of TP in the media was a beat up until yesterday I was in a rural regional shopping centre and there in front of me where 2 Asian (Chinese??) couples with a trolley each stacked with only TP! I just shook my head in disbelief and kept walking. I felt like pulling my shirt up over my head yelling "I am the great cornholio" :)
Fitz, should have just yelled out “immigration raid”
Etarip, I'm highly sceptical of the whole massive media hype job on this virus.
Is it as contagious as flu?
we don't know yet.
is it as dangerous as flu?
maybe if you're old, but Influenza B strains seem to be far more dangerous to kids than Covid 19.
221, 853 flu cases in the last really bad flu season in Aus in 2017. I think over a thousand deaths.
are we on track for that? I dunno.
we're at 59 cases, with a massive medical effort in containment underway.
Based on other countries like Taiwan with far more exposure to the virus I highly doubt it.
edit, double post
From today’s paper , Freeride.
NSW is planning for hundreds of thousands of cases.
Which is all good if it’s just a flu, bro. But then there’s this :
“Australia's chief medical officer Brendan Murphy has said the current global understanding of the virus is the total number of infections is about five times the number of serious cases.“
A “ serious “ case is assisted breathing in hospital. 1 in 5 cases.
20 percent hospitalisation.
I don’t know about you , but I don’t know anyone who has ever been to hospital for the flu.
And you still haven’t explained why the Chief Medical Officer of Australia is on TV talking it up if it’s a hoax. Why would he be doing this ? What’s your theory ?
people get hospitalised for the flu every year, thousands of them. And die.
if they are old.
Just like this virus.
The "problem" for covid19 is vast numbers of young people may have the virus and have no or very light symptoms.
It's not even a flu, not even as bad as a common cold
Tell me, if this is as contagious as a flu why does Taiwan have only 42 cases after 4 months of exposure?
I just watched the ABC 7.30 report special on Corona Virus, with the Chief Medical Officer.
I can't see any reason to change my scepticism based on his evidence.
yes, old people are at risk. Totally accepted.
Will it be as bad as 2009's swine flu?
I don't know.
Right...so you’d be very keen to up that bet then ?
Missed the pre edit post VJ, bummer, they are always a good read, but no dramas.
I saw Blowins reference to the breath training. I’ve been trying out the Mark Visser course and also now I can get back in the water should okay. The shoulder is on the mend so will be able to get back in the pool in a month or two as well. Like you say, steady as she goes
Tell you what, lets make it specific.
If we exceed the 2017 flu seasons case load I'll put a carton on the table.
sure, we are planning for thousands of cases and thats good. we should be.
whether it gets that bad or whether we can stabilise infections at a very low number like Taiwan is my query.
The government’s chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, said: “We have been looking at this right from the outset with very sophisticated mathematical modelling, and we are confident of refining the death rate, the mortality rate, down, and we really think 1% is probably the most accurate figure at the moment ... It may be lower.”
So we need > 221853 cases nationwide for you to pay out ?
for the carton, yeah.
I already owe you the 6ey
You big racist plick !
https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/chinas-proposed-immigration-changes-spar...
FR, fair enough. Media hype and all that. Is the the Y2K of 2020? I think the responses from governments reflect a deeper uncertainty than you get with the ‘known’ flu strains. There’s always a danger in over-stating the wisdom of governments, but on this issue I think they’re actually being led by medical professionals and the health bureaucracy. Question then, surely better to over-react than under react? If not for the lethality of the virus itself, but for the potential impact on economy / social services etc...?
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/frankly-so-passe-mayor-fumes...
Not passe at all. I can't get enough of utopian idealism getting thrown into the pond of mindless vandalism. Because, in real life, people sometimes trash things, that's why we have locks.
"It's not even a flu, not even as bad as a common cold"
not so sure about that
I think it was a nyt article that broke down the classifications from 'mild' to 'critical' or whatever the highest class was
the 'mild' category was describing symptons and a condition much worse than the symptons of a common cold, much worse than what western conventions would deem 'mild'
the gold was in the comments (as usual) people went ballistic as people felt the symptons in the mild category were misleading. many chinese commentors, much back and forth between the party faithful and chinese people clearly not beholden to the party
I'll see if I can dig up the article
Freeride...I’m very interested in your thoughts as to why a hoax of this scale would be perpetrated . Please have a think and get back to me.
I can see your argument. It is astounding that there is so few cases in some places. So let’s take that discussion further.
Who gains from spreading the threat of impending pandemic across the entire globe ?
Who has the power to orchestrate an event of this extent ?
Just got a heads up about this effort at Coastalwatch. ........fucking useless.
. Jay Davies and Harry Bryant Surf Broome
“With a rare cyclone swell looming, Harry and Jay head to surf croc and box-jelly country of far north Queensland. Not sure you could pick two more Aussie, better suited surfers for this local kind of version of Weird Waves. The highlight, as usual with this kind of content, is the stoke of the locals getting rare waves near home.“
Not sure how much Coastal watching they do if they think Broome is in FNQ.
I don't see anything sinister or conspiratorial in it.
I don't think it's an organised hoax, just a media feeding frenzy.
Scomo had to get on the front foot after the insipid bushfire performance and like Etarip said, given the uncertainty , better to over-react than under-react.
Why would govts over-react apart from or over and above the medical advice?
read this thread. If that is a sample of public opinion, which I believe it is, than they are reacting to that.
simples.
Starting to think that Corona has actually been around for some time, 6 months or more in the UK anyway.
The two elderly people who have died in the UK who both had underlying health issues were only picked up as having the virus through routine testing of intensive care patients with respiratory problems. They hadn't travelled recently or had contact with anyone who had. This suggests the virus is circulating freely in the UK.
There has also been some funky bug going around since last year. My wife who's a nurse has a couple of colleagues who were wiped out by some mystery illness just before Christmas describing it as like the worst case of flu you could imagine with an added psychological hit that left them thinking they'd lost the plot. It quickly went through both families although the kids weren't as bad. The mrs was knocked sideways by something in Jan, she one of these who despite being surrounded by disease and pestilence never gets sick, usually. Me and the littlun both got it as did my folks and friends, seemed to spread easily and was different to the usual cold the sprog brings home from school.
They are all specialist nurses who are in and out of A&E with their role so are in the firing line of people turning up infected, they've got a few in isolation there at the moment.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people have had it, passed it on and recovered while others with underlying health issues have had it and croaked but weren't tested for Corona at the time.
I'll have a better crack at answering: who benefits?
The global media, I use that term with zero conspiratorial undertone, must be perfectly giddy with joy. This is almost the perfect event.
It's global and it is rolling on, with just enough happening to maintain feverish interest in each new development.
A thousand old people with dodgy lungs die in 2017 from a nasty flu strain and we don't give a fuck, that's not news.
A 95 year old woman dies in a nursing home from corona virus and it's oh my god we're all gunna die.
We thought the fatality rate was 2% and millions were going to perish. Now it might be half that, or less.
Why are so few people getting infected in Asia? Maybe it's not as infectious as the flu?
But the public is being whipped into a frenzy by the constant rolling media coverage.
Front page around the world. I got my father in law to bring me a suite of international newspapers with him, all front page, all breathlessly repeating the same news word for word.
People canceling trips left and right. Pupkin cancelled a late season run to Hawaii.
Hawaii has zero recorded cases, despite massive numbers of Chinese tourists.
Zero.
Chances of catching corona virus in Hawaii if you're surfing the north shore are basically zero. Chances of being impacted in some way are basically zero.
If he cracks his pretty little head on the reef at Chuns he's still covered by travel insurance.
The power of fear is a potent motivator.
Blowin said cases were doubling every 5 days?
so by Tuesday we should have 120 cases in Oz, by Sunday 240 etc etc.
That seems unlikely seeing as Taiwan has only 42 cases and they've got 24 million people crammed into a tiny island and we've got 26 on a huge continent.
You are putting the cart before the horse. The media is making a big deal out of it AFTER world governments did. I was in Asia watching the Singaporean PM make live addresses to calm the people weeks before it barely rated a mention in the Australian media.
China locked down millions of people. Put their entire economy on ice.
You think that Xi Jinping did that to get Scomo out of the sports rorts pickle or to boost the circulation of the Herald ?
Claiming it as a media / Scomo beat up is like blaming a vulture circling a carcass for the death of an animal.
Love a good swellnet wager Blowin and FR. Might be some difficulties picking a winner for a while. Technicalities will impact results.
- Dept of Health is recommending people with suspected CV19 do NOT attend a medical centre in person, instead to call in and make an appt. This will deter many with mild cases from presenting, this impacting figures.
- current multiviral tests do not cover CV. (This test is called a multiplex viral respiratory panel, which often include tests for these other coronaviruses. These tests currently do not test for COVID-19 and do not indicate whether it is present or absent. - NSW Health). Again, going to distort reporting figures.
- this New Scientist article about how the tests work is pretty good: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/2236610-corona... ?how many places have the tech / facility / capacity to do these tests at scale?
not world governments, Asian governments.
Which is entirely reasonable when you consider the history of the various swine flu/birdflu /sars epidemics they have had to deal with.
What has SARS got to do with this ?
It’s less impactful than a common cold. You said so yourself. You think that you are more aware of the seriousness than the Chinese government ?
The same government who sat on their hands for a month , persecuting doctors who stated the true condition of the disease , before quarantining entire cities ? Why is Wuhan still locked down ?
Come on , Freeride.
Quit paltering with the truth . It’s either a huge conspiracy or it’s a genuine thing. If you want to claim it’s ahoaxyouve got to back yourself cause the whole “ selling newspapers “ excuse doesn’t scratch the surface.
That New Scientist article is exactly what I'm talking about.
The Cover screams Pandemic.
Read the article and you get: "Because infected people may have anything from severe pneumonia to no symptoms at all, the only way to confirm that someone is infected is to test them for the virus".
An antibody test could reveal whether or not lots of people get very mild infections that are going unnoticed. That would mean the case fatality rate could be significantly lower than the current estimate of around 1 or 2 per cent".
So in the end, lots and lots of people, maybe millions may have contracted the virus and have no idea they have it because it's so mild.
In which case, not even as bad as a normal flu season.
Time will tell.
I really have no beliefs about this.
If it turns out that it's some sinister escaped man made virus from a Chinese lab, I'll go with that.
If it turns out to be x or y, I'll go with that.
But the worth of scientific statements like it has x fatality rate or it's as infectious as flu is in their falsifiability or predictive power.
When those predictive powers fail, or the premises of the hypothesis get falsified then you change the premises.
Which is what is happening.
Morrison seems to be handling the thing pretty well considering he's up against something he can't see. Poor old treasurer looks like a kid holding what was a big bag of lollies and then everyone stole them. Hard job putting a fence around Australia, I wouldn't like to be in their shoes. Statewise in NSW we have John Barilaro and Gurmesh Singh who think Nuclear power is the answer for the North Coast. These guys are in the National Party that I vote for so if you are like me please write to them outlining the fact that you are being a stupid wog and a dumb curry muncher. These terms are acceptable in Australian culture if the level of stupidity deserve it. Repent of this idiocy and we Nationals voters can like you again and you may return to your normal parliamentary titles. Nuclear power is old thinking and helping people generate their own small scale power plants is the future. Solar hot water systems alone take 30% off the domestic grid demand but Rudd got rid of it and no one has put the rebates back. We also have to plant the trees again. The govt is planting 20 million trees but that will just be the beginning of whats needed to absorb the carbon of the past. The solutions are all there and to move forward without people like the media putting fear into the air, is always the best thing to do regardless of the different challenges we face. Its all doable so encourage your kids that all is well and everything will work out OK. As the bible says,
" For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope."
Yours sincerely....A non nuclear, conservative nature loving wog.
Totally agree with everything you’re saying, Freeride.
We’ve all seen vested interests talk shit - even within the scientific community. Like other existential threats being bandied around, i too will keep an open mind and give more concern to the issue as the situation evolves.
So I’m not locking myself into the cellar just yet. But I am aware of what is going down in China in real time . Not based on statistics or the farcical notion of modelling, but what is known and the cause of which is not under a hint of doubt.
When a manufacturing hub in China gets completely shut down then I’m taking that into account. There’s no doubt as to cause and effect or possible skewering by a scientist who is 8000 kms from the scene and staring at a computer model . A model built around the economic models which can’t predict anything with a degree of reality. It’s an all powerful dictator getting direct accounts of the situation and taken action which is not compromised by anyone.
The only change to my life is that it partially influenced my decision to return from Indo and that I got the fuck out of the sharemarket before it dropped.
You make me laugh Blowin, if this virus started anywhere other than China would you have so much interest in it?
You seem to dislike China as much as my wife dislikes Chinese like many Indonesias do.
Although the funny thing is she has a few Chinese friends.
I know Indo, my wife hates Koreans but one of her best friends is... you guessed it- Korean.
Indo Dreaming, a very subtle and wryly funny comment.
You seem to have turned a corner lately.
Cull the festering recycle Bags to save frontline Checkout Chix spreading virus.
What's New Panic Buys at tbb's end of the world.
Dunny Paper, Anti Bacterial Soaps, Tissues, Batteries, Water, Rice, Flour, Tinned Beans / Tomatoes ...[Easter - Red Cross Buns sold out last Xmas]
Virus Kill %
2019 Oz Flu (0.29%) Cases 310,000 > Deaths 900
Corona Virus (3.4%) Cases 101,906 > Deaths 3,465
SARS ( 9.63%) Cases 8,437 Deaths 813
MERS (34.45%)Cases 2,499 Deaths 861
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/coronavirus-diseases-comparin...
Live World'o'meter Corona Virus Tally Room...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Current Cases -101,906
Deaths- 3,465 or 3.4% toll
Recovered-56,123
Active- 42,318 (85% Mild- 35,917) > (15% Critical-6,401)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Oz Flu Stats: (Alarming rise in Flu stats with Corona Virus hitting Oz Flu season)
Oz is on high Alert, being least prepared than ever to contain a virus.
2017 Deaths 1100 (Highest toll year)
2019 Deaths 900 ( 0.29% ) > Cases: 310,000 are highest recorded
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/early-outbreaks-to-blame-for-wors...
Coronavirus (Kill factor)... 10 x more deadly than the Oz Flu
Double Pneumonia > Respiratory Failure > Septic Shock > Kidneys > Heart .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-01/coronavirus-update-how-to-protect...
FR if containment doesn't work 20% hospitalisted 5% ICU is a big deal that's before you get to the knock on effect delaying other preventable conditions being treated.
Pick any numbers you like but I would have been looking at the Italy numbers before placing the bet...............good luck but Blowin will be drinking free beer.
"I know Indo, my wife hates Koreans but one of her best friends is... you guessed it- Korean."
ha ha...my wife is also scared of black people (her words) not sure why i think it's just lack of exposure to other cultures in Indonesia and cliche's of the African/Amercian gagsters type thing, but the funniest thing is one of her best friends is a very dark skinned big African lady,....go figure
"Indo Dreaming, a very subtle and wryly funny comment.
You seem to have turned a corner lately."
Ha ha...me?
Ive only recently believed that you are Facto (few things confirmed it for me), but i have to say i like this new profile of yours better, so much more personality and not all negativity.
"Three thousand people in Queensland have been instructed to self-isolate after returning from China and Iran. So far, only 13 have tested positive for Covid-19.
The state’s chief health officer, Jeannette Young, said residents were complying with the voluntary self-isolation orders, and there was no cause for broader alarm.
“No one should be panicking, this is another disease that is spreading through our community, as we have with lots of other diseases … we want to minimise its spread where we can, because we know everyone’s susceptible,” Young said.
She said 80% of people infected by Sars-Cov-2 – the virus that causes Covid-19 – would be only mildly unwell, to the extent of barely knowing they were sick. Older people, particularly those over 80, and those with chronic conditions, were most vulnerable to the illness."
I guess it depends on 20% of what.
If 80% or some very high number of cases don't get sick or only feel mildly unwell, never need hospitalisation or even testing then we are talking about 20% of the 20% who do contract the disease in some more serious form.
So if 20% of 20% is only of a small number, in the hundreds or low thousands then this won't be a big deal.
Too early too tell.
Indo ....I don’t dislike people because they are Chinese , Black , Yellow , Red , Bogan , cause they vote for Clive Palmer , cause they have a big nose.
That’s true racism / bigotry. I’ve never said I did and I’ve never implied that I did. It’s only the fools who want to beat you over the head with fake moral authority who make the incorrect leap in logic of assuming you dislike individuals based on their race because you’ve said that you don’t like some aspects of some cultures or that you prefer some cultures to others or if you can see another culture attempting to subjugate your own culture.
Two totally different things. It doesn’t take that much intelligence to understand.
It is possible to say “ fucking bogans doing burnouts in my street last night “ and still have a mate who is a bogan.
A lot of times people recognise this distinction but chose not to acknowledge it because they lose their favourite weapon ...which is calling someone a racist.
Indo ....yes , I’m interested in the virus originating in China because I’m stoked it may give pause to Australia being overwhelmed by the Chinese culture. I’m also pissed off because they could have reacted much better and prevented the spread of the virus. And then there’s the chance that it escaped from their lab ......
I just dont have any time for China full stop because of the way they are behaving on the world stage and particularly how they are acting towards Australia.
Apart from that I really only care about the health of those around me. I’d prefer to be back in Indonesia instead of surfing boring , weak beachies again but that’s the price to pay I guess.
Freeride....you’ve lost me with the 20 percent of 20 percent thing.
Apparently......80 out of 100 people just get the flu. 20 out of 100 get fucked up. 3 out of 100 die.
Have it cunts