Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

Doubt any Indonesians care to much about paying any money back no matter there religion.

Even if it was translated properly i don't think it would matter, it sounded like a threat to me even in english.

You have to remember in Indonesia this Bali nine thing isn't really much of a story, most Indonesians wouldn't even know who the Bali nine are.

But I'm guessing the Tony thing would have been a bigger story, Indonesians are pretty nationalistic so its would get media attention.

Just another scam.... A Howard/Costello neoconic waste of taxpayers money that was installed by Abbott at the time..... Just bring back the CES... Get rid of these vultures....
Simplification, not smoke and mirrors privatization...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-23/government-recovers-millions-after...

And Therese Rein hasn't enriched herself through this?

Of course she did.... If the CES had never been scrapped, being a savvy business woman, she would've been an entrepreneur in another field....... But what's your point, Zen? Is her company one the ones caught rorting? Pretty sure she sold up when Rudd became PM.......
Howard and co privatized the ces in 1998.... Did Rein or Rudd for that matter have anything to do with the ideology and instillation of privatization of job networking? Rudd was a lowly opposition backbencher in 1998...

I believe she sold the Australian operations in 2007 but remained as MD and last year sold the rest (read UK operations) to Providence a US listed company. She still owned most of Ingeous with the balance belonging to Deloitte. Once again, I believe she has/had agreed to stay on until 2020 or something like that.

She may not have had the idea of privatising the job network but I reckon as the savvy businesswoaman you say she is, has done quite nicely for herself.

In fairness, if it wasn't her would have been somebody else.

Done!

See that Abbott wanted to send ground troops to Iraq - with or without alliance assistance.

Purely vote driven.

Question : Is Abbott the biggest knob in Australia ?

Answer : Most probably.

Cmon blowin really he would consider sending troops without UN authorisation and no ally, I find that idea retarted even by Tony's own lofty standards.

I think the story's a media beat up....someone's thrown out a livey in hope of realing in a whoppa

Gday, mick... he said it..... Just probably "off the cuff".... You know, in private - "Jeez I feel like sending some of blokes over there to giv'em what for"..... Even though in private, a fairly juvenile statement from a head of state..... Sort of stuff said at an RSL, not in a PM's office.....

The main concern is "loose lips sink ships".... This government is dysfunctional.....

I only saw the headline Mick.

I honestly wouldn't put it past him.

Hey floyd... The intergen'..... was it 40 million by 2055?

This is the reason I ask re' 40 000 000;

Ok, just basic simple maths...

40 000 000 by 2055...

Currently we are 23 500 000...

Our immigration rate is 190 000 ; 190 000 x 30 years = 5 700 000... We could always scale back immigration to 100 000 per year... But that's another story...

23 500 000 + 5 700 000 immigrants over 30 years = = 29 200 000..
That means 10 800 000 babies need to be born in the next 30 years WITHOUT ANYONE DYING to reach 40 000 000.......
2014 was the first year in 5 years where the number of babies born increased. 312 000 babies were born here in 2014..... That's 9 360 000 babies over 30 years...
And we still haven't counted on anyone dying.....

23 500 000
+ immigration at 190 000 per year for 30 years (5 700 000)
+ babies born for 30 years (9 360 000)
= 38 560 000
Now let's look at deaths
2013 - 147 678 deaths.... It increases every year, but again being generous, we'll use that number...
147 678 x 30 years
= 4 430 340 deaths.....

38 560 000
- 4 430 340 deaths
= 34 129 660.

Even on the most basic figures, and being generous, they are nearly 6 000 000 out..... If we drop back immigration to 100 000 per year, they are 8 000 000 out...

Sheepy.....Unless the government ramps up immigration.

Which both sides are extremely keen to do.

Very lazy economics indeed. We had economic rationalism, we sold lots of dirt, we sold lots of residencies, governments sold lots of assets, and now we are selling land and water. We should be rolling in it. What do we sell next?

This seems like a fair summary of events, with a fair solution. Let's just do it now before it degenerates into nastyness.

http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/2015/03/05/intergeneration-report-r...

Dear floyd..please admit your labor zupport..not only do you instigate this thread but you infiltrate other threads with your labor byist..which is fine (free country n all) but at least be grown up enough to plant your flag!!no more fence sitting brother..abbsys gaining momentum..he is from the 'older'generation conservatusism..which steered aust in a positive direction...imo trial by media is starting to backgire..like kicking krudd..most people disliked him until the media beat him down...

Maybe, floyd lol..... But wtf is wrong with journalists these days? Can't be a bias thing, cos we've got right wing news L, fox etc, and left wing age/ abc..... Their questions and line of attack is sedative....

Well they're certainly not "right of centre"... I'd say both the age and the abc are left of centre, as is the guardian.... But that's needed with news L right wing saturarion....
You'd have to agree though that journalism is in as bad a state as politics itself?

Sheepdog wrote:

Well they're certainly not "right of centre"... I'd say both the age and the abc are left of centre, as is the guardian.... But that's needed with news L right wing saturarion....
You'd have to agree though that journalism is in as bad a state as politics itself?

It's a puzzle to me too this decline in journalistic standards. 24/7 news cycle? When I was a younger fella the Terrorgraph was read by the working class and the SMH was for the posh mob. But now the Terrorgraph is all but unreadable and the SMH is looking (and reading) more and more like a tabloid.

The current state of politics in this country is appalling, but I believe could be improved if the media was more bipartisan in it's reporting. By that I mean (and this is probably quite naive) we shouldn't have to know what bias a particular media source has before accepting (or not) the information presented.

It is difficult to get accurate, unbiased information - even more difficult in this day of theNet.
ABC has clearly changed over the last ten years in its reporting. Yes, the biased media has had a direct impact on politics. Poor media , poor politics.
It's easy to read what you want to read. Best is to challenge it and check yourself.

tonybarber wrote:

It's easy to read what you want to read. Best is to challenge it and check yourself.

And therein lies the problem. How exactly do we check things, in an environment of biased information, in order to challenge them?

Money, advertising and friendships to the political parties. Look who own the media .the politicians are now in a powerful place to keep the media as psuedo propogandarist because of the competition with the internet information. Journalists want to keep their cushy jobs so they please the owners who are pleased the politicians dont interfere with their operations. its almost like the journalists ask the questions that were included in the press releases. how often do you hear " I'm glad u asked that question". Australia is a myth, there is a class system that runs the status quo and they want it to stay that way, they put on a charade to try and fool the general public and then go back to their exclusive clubs smoking cigars and congratulating each other on their great acting performance.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-austra...

And so the circus rolls on.

BTW Admiral you don't speak for me. I would suggest that Australians are sick of several things much closer to home.

Exscuse me fellas just realized I can do the double hat trick like shaun did the other day.

@braud...granted not easy. Chase up whatever 'trusted' sources you have. For me, I ask them - what's the facts. I don't subscribe to the 'owners' control theory. There are too many contradictions to this.
Who owns ABC ? Who owns Age, SMH ?

Gday, barbs.... "It is best to check it for yourself". I totally agree with you.... Problem is most voters don't... They rely on being spoonfed.... That's always been the case..... Just these days, the spoon is poop, and not decent journalism...

Good analysis Sheepdog regarding that obvious population error in current intergen report.
Even K.Rudd initially supported a figure of 36million by 2050 back in 2009, which was generated by the 2010 intergen report, so why the blowout ?

And man didn't the media go ballistic re the issue. K.Rudd was backtracking 6 months latter even Dick Smith went public & made a short doco on a "Sustainable Australia' & then bye bye Kevin. As you say where are the journo's who should be questioning this stuff....amazing !

Cheers Johno

tonybarber wrote:

@braud...granted not easy. Chase up whatever 'trusted' sources you have. For me, I ask them - what's the facts. I don't subscribe to the 'owners' control theory. There are too many contradictions to this.
Who owns ABC ? Who owns Age, SMH ?

the ABC relies on Federal Goverbment funding who can use multiple excuses about not providing what they believe is viewable. As for the Age and SMH, watch how many SCOOPS they get.

At first the thought of Turnbull or someone else taking over from Abbott made me cringe... Oh no, another Prime Minister de-throned. Three in a row!!

It made me wonder if it's not the individuals (Rudd, Gillard and Abbott) or party (liberal or labor) but the state of our politics that they are set up to fail before they even start. And I do still wonder that... what do you think?

But Abbott seems to just have no clue whatsoever about diplomacy and propoganda. Now I must say, I am starting to think they need to chop him! He just keeps opening his mouth with detrimental effects:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/rolf-de-heer-slams-tony-abbot...

But the Liberals will collectively do what is best for their party and I think they need to see Turnbull emerge more in the public eyes before he usurps the throne. Spin, spin, wag the dog, gain popularity.... and then bang the preferred Liberal (Turnbull) comes to the rescue with enough time before next election. Seems more like an episode of a soapy or the Jerry Springer show than the chosen few running a country!

u r spot on burgsurfer, they are spending so much time on party politics doing what they were voted to do run our country. its because interest rates are so low so the the average australian is not so affected, sure we have a few issues that pop up that they attempt to address through appearances on andrew bolt, q and a and talkback radio. but mainly they know the australian public is now too apathetic to really take them to task.
turnbull will let abbott hang himself but wont do anything to closer to an election time just to see if shorten opens up and puts his foot in his mouth. unfortunately they all appear to be the same, they get their exorbitant wages, 18 or 19% super contributions and all the perks if they stay in for a few terms and if they dont, they find themselves in a high paying public sector job. Not all are like this but our current set up of politics, its party room factions ultimately mean you toe the line or you cut your toenails back in woop woop. Yes mate, its a soap drama, and unfortunately all the media outlets have it as their top rating viewer attraction- yes minister!!!

Foot in mouth disease is unfortunate! when your friend and/or family has it, it's ok, a gentle hand to keep them out of harms way and a diffusion of the potential push me push you, is all that may be needed.

When your PM continues with the unfortunate F In M disease you wonder. I could blag on about this/his issue's but I'm going to try to get my immediate point across as best I can.

First Nation Peoples living remote as a "life Choice"??????????? 50,0000-70,0000 years of inhabiting this land!!!!!the oldest art scape in the human race history of mankind, who, by the way created the first ever portrait that still exists in stone, and that heritage can be traced back to this very day, to their living relatives. The most hardcore nomads and water people that archeologist and anthropologist have ever uncovered.

Anybody out there that can match that? put up your argument!

TAbbot you don't represent my views.

I was heading west along the Nullarbor('Nullarbor' to me meant empty space not sure what the Nugga interpretation is) some time in 2006. It was close to the head of the Bight or maybe a bit after. Seen a dirt track and headed south, thought it might get to the coast, and it did. Early in the side track I came across a water tank. the tank could have held 90,000 to 100,0000 litres of water . It was empty. Painted on the outside wall was "White Mans Nightmare, Black Mans Dreaming"

I can raise an argument..from my takings on other social media it seems to cost on average $85 000 per person a year to help these first people out there..if thats true thats not viable..if thats for supplying water etc ..MB has no running water in SA i would like some with my $85 000. Thanks.
It might be worth a drive through halls creek and point pearce for a look at what some of the moneys has been used for.
If they are happy and want to live out there thats cool..but why bankroll?

We're bankrolling religion, barley... Religion is a "lifestyle choice".... A tax exempt lifestyle choice... Why should religious organizations get out of paying tax?
Just get those pesky "blacks" off that mining land, right... The they can't claim mabo.... Then Reinhart and ziggy don't have to pay royalties ;)

I dont mind them staying sheepo..just dont through bucket loads of cash at them thats all..we bankroll too much in society IMO....i am sick of everyone playing the racist card as soon as the word aboriginal is said..everyones afraid of cuts..as well as climate change..privatisation..religion...welfare...health...you get people afraid you get power

Seems to me you're the one who's afraid Barley. I doubt you'd even have heard about the those brothers, their 'lifestyle choices', and the cost, before yesterday. I know I hadn't.

So why are you all of a sudden worried about it?

PS: The Dog is spot on about religion.

Fishlegs wrote:

Foot in mouth disease is unfortunate! when your friend and/or family has it, it's ok, a gentle hand to keep them out of harms way and a diffusion of the potential push me push you, is all that may be needed.

When your PM continues with the unfortunate F In M disease you wonder. I could blag on about this/his issue's but I'm going to try to get my immediate point across as best I can.

First Nation Peoples living remote as a "life Choice"??????????? 50,0000-70,0000 years of inhabiting this land!!!!!the oldest art scape in the human race history of mankind, who, by the way created the first ever portrait that still exists in stone, and that heritage can be traced back to this very day, to their living relatives. The most hardcore nomads and water people that archeologist and anthropologist have ever uncovered.

Anybody out there that can match that? put up your argument!

TAbbot you don't represent my views.

The most hardcore nomads and water people that anthropologists have ever uncovered ?

How do you think 100 percent of the worlds people existed 100,000 years ago ?

Not afraid at all stunet it seems to me that abbsy was talking about the cost effectiveness of supporting some of these people and places..i didnt read he was saying none of them deserve or have their 'right' to live there.he was just saying at that price the gov. Cant continue. Thats where the lifestyle part came into it.IMO

barley wrote:

I can raise an argument..from my takings on other social media it seems to cost on average $85 000 per person a year to help these first people out there..if thats true thats not viable.

Are you serious? You're gunna use numbers you found on 'social media' to base an argument on?

@sheepdog and @stunet, spot on!!

BTW barley if it's money you're worried about, here's a crazy plan why don't we make multinationals like Google and Apple pay their share of tax here in Australia! And that's without getting started on religions. Or the mining tax.

I bet you're pissed off that poor white people waste their (your) welfare money on durries and goon too?

I could go on but I sense it would be a waste of time.

Did they move there recently? I don't know that myself but I assume not, many of those communities are well established. And so then they should be serviced. As hard as it is for many economic rationalists to appreciate there are many things within our society that don't 'pay for themselves'.

Without trying to stray too far off topic I'll venture Legal Aid as something that doesn't pay for itself. But the dictum that every person has a right to fair representation is a cornerstone of a fair and just society. It's one part of a greater whole that makes for a good, stable society.

I believe this falls into a similar basket. Something that is beyond value comparisons. We pay taxes, they get divvied out, sometimes to things that benefit us, sometimes to things that benefit others, but the end is a fairer society and that justifies every means.

I dont think our society is fair and just stu..not by a long shot!! Its not just aboriginals that get railroaded by big mining corps etc..thats not race discriminant..if it was a mainly white settlement i dont think the gov and majority of people would be spending anywhere near that amount..so what does help aboriginals? Money..no facilities,resources...no leaving them alone...no

barley wrote:

I dont think our society is fair and just stu..not by a long shot!! Its not just aboriginals that get railroaded by big mining corps etc..thats not race discriminant..if it was a mainly white settlement i dont think the gov and majority of people would be spending anywhere near that amount..so what does help aboriginals? Money..no facilities,resources...no leaving them alone...no

Well, like I said in the opening paragraph, if people - blacks or whites - moved there it would be a different situation. But I don't think that's the case?

Like Braudulio said, the REAL injustices are the multinationals profiting billions of dollars in Australia without paying any tax. Why aren't you outraged about that?

Downwards envy is an ugly, vindictive, and small-minded thing Barley. Get angry about the things that matter not the things that politicians playing the populist card want you to.

So you are worried about money? The problems with multinationals is they are always one step ahead of the game..always will be.you should know you go after them they will up and out all together and neither sides will do that. My main injustice is you can hang people for drugs but peodos and mass muderers rapists we look after for the rest of their lives?

Pays to remember that aboriginal communities on large properties and pastoral leases in west aus were traded as chattels when these properties and leases changed hands. It was trying to do the right thing and demanding equal pay and rights by the government at the time that forced a lot of indigenous people away from their traditional communities. Let's keep trying to kick em in the guts eh!!!!