Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

Good example re Hodgman, I was basically saying the same, they all need to get on with it.

They have to play media game as well but thats not the main game.

Conservatives know their main game, it doesn't change, so its just policies and publicity. The left has to be progressive by definition. So their work is progression, policy and publicity. There is no clear idea of the shape of that progression so they are getting caught up with the others trying to please everyone. More work in the office less bullshit:

Floyds right we cannot have all these services without higher taxes, australians need to mature a little and accept this, and politicians need to stop telling us otherwise. I'm happy for less services or more taxes, geez I dont care, ill take more services and way more taxes. Or no services at all and no taxes, that's the kind of kaos I would enjoy. Its up to australians to decide. Politicians need to tell it like ir is, get in the office, and come back to the media when they got something good to say, instead of just titting another tat.

I watched it too..... Lied about the inherited debt as well....

Mark riley got him a beauty too.....

Regarding the Qld election results we actually get Qld TV beamed off the satellite in country S.A and the LNP adverts were on constantly. I didn't see a single Labor advert the whole time?

It was similar to the South Australian state election earlier this year. I drove down to Adelaide a few weeks before the election and there were 10 telegraph poles featuring Liberal Party candidates for every Labor one. I went into a shopping centre and there were booths set up with smiling well dressed young people handing out Liberal Party propaganda.
I heard they even hired attractive models down at Henley Beach to hold up signs and wave to passing motorists!
I wondered where the money was coming from to pay for all this?
After Labor won the state election in S.A I heard the Liberal opposition spent three times as much as Labor on advertising.

And now the Australian Electoral Commission has released figures showing that last year corporate donors gave to the Coalition at five times the rate they gave to Labor, including $85,000 from big tobacco despite Tony Abbott promising in 2013 he'd join Labor in refusing tobacco donations?

Maybe Queensland voters saw these wall to wall LNP adverts and wondered like I did "where's the money coming from"?
And what will be the payback for all of these political donations if the LNP are returned to power in Queensland?

speaking of political donations

The Southern Bluefin Tuna Industry Association was Liberals’ single largest donor at $320,000.

That would buy some serious influence

CFMEU donating to the greens??

The pinnacle of ethical behaviour being unethical? surely not

Sheepdog wrote:

I watched it too..... Lied about the inherited debt as well....

Mark riley got him a beauty too.....

So Labor didn't put the country in 300 billion debt during the biggest mining boom in Australia's history then ?

As for political donations, I would be a little concerned about the large amount from a Chinese donor - http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/mystery-chinese-do...
Such a large single amount opens questions about payback. Re national debt - we just need to agree that there is a significant debt (as is around the world) and this needs to be addressed. Even old Swanny stated this.

Yeh i was a little startled by that one tonybarber but being a labor person at heart I didn't want to go there. Im surprised a labor member like yourself chose to go there.

Like lobby groups, the donations thing is grubby work from both sides. Of bigger concern is the donations that aren't declared.

Re negative gearing … I suggest you understand exactly how it works before suggesting cutting it. Re donations … well they are supposed to be declared - by law. Lobby groups are made up of people like you and me who wish to get a point across - thats democracy. If you think they influence politicians too much then just think of the recent Qld elections.

one of the more interesting stories of the Qld election was Alan Jones and his attack on Newman...for the LNP accepting $700K from a coal Co and the subsequent license for development of Jone's home town,after he was promised by Newman that this would never take place. Most political observers saw this as a factor in the Brisbane area...as Jone called Newman and the LNP prostitues...and Jones then went on the attack for 7 days for 1 hr of primetime radio....shit if the right hates newman....and has effectively gotten rid of Newman ...payback/revenge by a political commentator......can affect an election.......who is/was will be the more powerful??

Yeah, Floyd... I think negative gearing on housing need to be looked at.... I have no problem re' negative gearing in business, though....

Negative gearing is available for business - always has been. International company tax payments is a problem for all. Ireland has finally changed its tax haven options but will take time to come in.

re. Brutus post. Scary how much power people like Alan Jones have. Even worse is that right wing fuckhead would be calling any mine opponents dole bludgers and hippies if it was not his home town, fuckhead!

Yes tonybarber donations need to be declared, but the parties take different views on what should be declared. labor declares anything over $1 000, liberals anything over $12 000,

Political parties and donors were only required to disclose donations of more than $12,400 in 2013-14, although numerous donors and some parties, including Labor and the Greens, declare smaller donations for transparency reasons.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/political-donation...

That allows the Liberals to hide a lot of $10 000 donations!!!

Negative gearing comes up everytime someone mentions Tax in Australia. Neither side will ever touch it, because they know it will be political death as all those baby boomers are rorting it for all it is worth. The same baby boomers who enjoyed slackass government jobs through the 70s, that now are getting government employee super packages that pay a percentage of their former wage, similar to the politicians super packages, it is stuff like that which is making the system broke, but you cannot talk about that.

Just like all the small businesses rorting the put all your daily living expenses on the company credit card system, that allows you to reduce your take home wage to something minmal enough so the family gets health care card benefits. There are some pretty comfortable people, with very nice houses and cars, getting around with health care cards. Fair enough that is the system, but like the negative geared baby boomers above, the miserable bastards accuse everyone else of rorting and exploiting the system. That is what generations to come will be paying for as much as any exaggerated current debt.

@sypkan…ok you can have a go at small business. Maybe talk to an accountant and see who is 'rorting', find out who is responsible for the small business tax submission. Super levy has been in for over 20 years. Unions used manage super prior to that period as it was part of wage rises. Find out why Hawkey / Keating introduced the super levy - good reading. Well, I know where my union fees go. They helped the union secretary build a new property house up the coast, but I can't use his new pool.

I'm not having a go at small business in particular, I'm just tired of everyone blaming everyone else. Everyone is minimizing their tax, amazingly its often people like those I described above who are also cashing in the most on government services.

Many of these tax rorts are creating an industry within themselves, with a huge tax payer funded beauracracy to manage them that consume even more taxes. It's time Australia weeded out taxes that are only financing contempt.

It seems the only people paying tax are wage earners. Stooges of the modern system. I've said it before I'm happy to pay more tax, I'm a willing stooge, I'm also happy to have less services. Australia needs to have a mature debate about such things, but everyone is so caught up their own vested interests its impossible to raise the issues.

I'm well aware of the history tonybarber, I'm almost as dark on unions as you, but unlike you, I think we'd be even more fucked if we left it up to just abbott and co. in the modern context.

Floyd, grocer, are you gonna join Barnaby and put the family house on it? ;)

A yes or no was all that was needed..... I'm not putting my house on it, mate.... ;) As I wrote in another thread on major news blog, time to "ditch the glitch" lol

Probably been said already, but to all the Abbott bashers (I can't stand the dick either) unless you just hate the man and not the party, get used to a conservative government for a while yet if Malcolm gets the gig. You might have snookered yourselves.
I swore after the last election I wouldn't vote for a major party again, but I'll reserve my decision if Malcolm leads the country, see how he goes. In saying that Nick X will be running candidates down here so he'll probably get a look in as well.

Malcolm Turnbull is a relaxed small 'l' liberal on social policies. Economically, he is one of the most extreme right wing free marketeers in the Liberal Party; privatise the public service, remove most Industrial relations legislation etc.

"yes he will hang on".... Jeez.... Kiss that house goodbye, floyd...

Gday, salt.... Mate, I'd rather Malcolm than Abbott.... He is smart enough to know selling what's left of the assets is not a good idea atm (after the qld election).... And yes he is a bit of a toffee nose.... But ages ago, I wrote to him.... He is one of the very few politicians that took the time to write back, not just a generic letter, but an actual personal response.....
Gday, wally.... I also think re' industrial relations that Turnbull will pull back..... I'd expect a totally different style of government under him, whereas under Bishop or god forbid Herr Morrisson , It would be more radical extreme governance....

Floyd " Arthur Sinodinos backs away from Tony Abbott "............
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2015/feb/04/liberal-mp-ca...

Mate, hope there's a few share rentals around........

I hope Abbott stays , he is Labors biggest asset. I 've always thought they would wait until a few months before the next election and then wheel out a fresh faced Turnbull but now I wouldn't be surprised if Abbott is knifed as early as next week. I feel sorry for these one eyed rusted on Liberal stooges now that it has become so blatantly obvious to all that their once proud party is an embarrassing laughing stock of elitist snobs and born to privilege pompous twits who couldn't run a stall at a church fete. Cheers.

old-dog
Right on mate

And the life achievements of Tom Uren (former Whitlam minister) were recognised today with his funeral.
Man you got to admire people like Tom ! The current sitcom in Canberra (LNP) appear so shallow & trivial in comparison.
Mr Uren's adopted son Michael said his father carried into later life the lesson he learnt in the POW camps: that "the strong should look after the weak, the young look after the not-so-young, the fit look after the sick".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-04/state-funeral-for-tom-uren-former-...

floyd wrote:

hey sheepy, you need to see the First Dog on the Moon cartoon this morning ..... GOLD.

Shite, he doesn't hold back.

@johno210 … out of interest, is there anyone you think who is like Tom Uren (RIP) currently in Labor ?

Stunet..... Yeah that's classic lol..... Love it.....

Good question tonybarber, re - current Labor bunch probably none.
Re - Tom Uren we are talking OLD LABOR, when people were a lot less educated, when a university education was something only the elite / wealthiest could afford. His life experiences shaped him.

IMO a balanced view of how Australia has fared over the past 40yrs can be found on Richard Fidler podcast program 'conversations' when he interviewed political writer - George Megalogenis. The conversations in question date back to 2012, taken from a book he wrote "The Australian moment" there are 2 parts to this podcast, you can search for it at this link http://www.abc.net.au/local/sites/conversations/

Interestingly when Richard asked him what he thought of the current crop of politicians, he calls them a bunch of mediocre clowns ! Why because they play dream politics, dumbed down me/now syndrome. He nails the situation in these conversations, politics, deficits, current leadership, have a listen please.

Johno

It is a good question tonybarber, I am warming to you.

And good answer Johno, nice that you didnt indulge in the usual one eyed defence bullshit.

Clearly two very different Labor party members. While I like to challenge Floyd and his one eyedness, I mostly agree with him. Especially with this comment.

Tones, did I read you are a member of the Labor Party? Herein is the problem.

Johno, I aslo agree with;

"the strong should look after the weak, the young look after the not-so-young, the fit look after the sick".

This is what Labor should be about, but unfortunately suffering an identity crisis they have got caught up in every possible minority group and cause possible, and causes within causes are developing new causes to ask for funding, all good causes no doubt, but you cannot fix everything. So you need to prioritise and focus on your core causes, which in my book for Labor would be industrial relations etc.

Why have we heard very little from Labor regarding 457 visas, their bread and butter I would imagine.

And why is it independants such as Xenophon and Lambie getting all the air time regarding where the submarines will be built?

They are too caught up trying to back every small time cause there is trying to show they are the ones with heart. ,Meanwhile, going with your military theme, real causes such as vietnam vets are still fighting for basic care for the effects of a fucked up war.

Why because Labor loves spending more and more on more services, such as Blowin's fine example.

- You don't think any government spending is superfluous ? Not even the NSWSLACEN ? That would be the NSW Spanish and Latin American cultural centre - aiming to preserve the culture of Spanish and Hispanic Americans in Australia. God knows they need a hand, what with only having an entire continent already devoted to the task.

Personally I think Australia and Labor need to reboot the settings on what is important and doable in the oncoming hard times. Australians are in for a huge shock in the oncoming downturn/recession.

Both sides cannot continue offering the world, while not addressing the structural problems that developed through the boom. Neither side made the boom, neither side caused the bust, and neither side is willing to face what s needed in the tough times ahead.

Oz squandered the boom, not Labor or Liberals, now both sides need a plan better than building our way out of it. Most people would say we have already had a housing boom too, pretty sure more housing cannot save us. Most coastal communities have had more that enough development go through unchallenged while everyone was distracted by the boom.

sypkan wrote:

This is what Labor should be about, but unfortunately suffering an identity crisis they have got caught up in every possible minority group and cause possible, and causes within causes are developing new causes to ask for funding, all good causes no doubt, but you cannot fix everything. So you need to prioritise and focus on your core causes, which in my book for Labor would be industrial relations etc.

Surely industrial relations is an old battle? The work force is far more mobile and transient these days, and most aappear to like it that way. How many consituents can Labor rely on if they make that their main focus?

IMO Labor's crisis is the transition from affirming labor rights to affirming human rights. To some it would appear two sides of the same coin, yet to others - less-educated shop floor workers? - there is no overlap between workers rights and, say, the rights of refugees. Never mind they're dirt poor and desperate, they're coming to take our jobs remember?

A coherent worldview has to be created and relayed to the people - which is something K-Rudd did. And then it has to be decisively acted upon - something he didn't do.

A piece by Anthony Sharwood this morning on the MSN. Personally, I think he nails it.

IT was supposed to be the speech that saved Tony Abbott’s career, but three days later, the Prime Minister’s position is in more danger than ever. The PM’s precarious position can be traced back to his Monday speech at the National Press Club, where he failed to move the conversation forward to his plans for 2015. So, here’s what he should have said, courtesy of news.com.au’s self-appointed parliamentary speechwriter, Anthony Sharwood.

“Good afternoon everybody.

So I’ve got this speech in front of me written by slick speech writers with all those clichés and grabs you’ve heard a million times before. But you know what? I’m going to ignore almost every word of the speech and speak from the heart today.

The first thing I want to tell is that I’m your Prime Minister, you voted for me, and I’m not going anywhere.

Because let’s face it, it wouldn’t be right for this government to change leaders after I bagged Rudd and Gillard so mercilessly for so long. So stop your speculation now. There will be no coup. Not going to happen.

And to those in my party who are sharpening the knives, my advice is this. Put away the cutlery, go pick up a pen, and formulate some policy with it. That’s what the Australian people put us here for and it’s what you’re paid to do.

The next thing I want to mention is that stupid Prince Phillip knighthood. Yes, I admit it was stupid, and here’s why.

I love the royals. Always have, always will, just like millions of other Australians. I am in many ways an old-fashioned traditionalist and I will never, ever apologise for that. Clinging to the past doesn’t mean I’m scared of the present or the future, despite what some people will say.

But I get that the knighthood sent the wrong signal. It was intended as a mark of respect, but it came across as a mark of disrespect to the amazing contributions of so many hardworking, dedicated, selfless, brilliant Australians in 2015.

It was dumb of me to send that signal. Really dumb. Good leadership is about having a strong vision and bringing the people along with you. It’s not about stubbornly saying “this is my world view and damned if you don’t like it”.

So again, and for the last time, I was dumb on the knighthood thing. But I won’t be half as dumb again. Another thing good leaders do is listen, and boy, have I listened to the outcry. There is a time to exercise what I like to call the “captain’s pick”, but this was not the time. Not even close.

But you know what? For all its symbolism, the knighthood issue has been a big distraction. The most important thing I want to talk about today is Australia’s prosperity.

The phrase “build a strong and prosperous economy for a strong and secure Australia” is there about 17 times in the speech I was going to deliver today.

So are plenty of other bland, empty clichés of the sort I spewed out endlessly for the (nearly) four years I was opposition leader. Phrases like “making the right decisions for our country’s future”, “making government more efficient” and being “an adult government” with a “a plan”.

Stuff all that.

The only part of today’s original speech worth repeating today is the part that goes like this:

“A stronger economy is the foundation of a stronger Australia. And if the economy is stronger, everyone’s life is better. A stronger economy helps everyone who’s doing it tough:

• parents wrestling with school fees and health costs;

• small business people anxious to keep their staff;

• seniors whose superannuation has to fund their retirement;

• volunteers wondering if they can still afford to serve the community; and

• young people looking for their first job and their first home.”

A stronger economy benefits us all. This I believe to my core. But a stronger economy hinges on Australia being debt free, or as close to it as possible. Mining boom or no mining boom, the Coalition Government I lead believes this country must be smart enough and strong enough to pay its own way in the world.

That’s why there’s one other paragraph I would keep from today’s original speech. It reads as follows:

“We’ve never been a country that’s ripped off future generations to pay for today and under my government, we never will.”

I believe to my core that a government’s primary role is to rein in spending rather than to spend like a drunk on payday.

Having said that, I have a small confession. As countless economic data attests, Australia’s budget situation is nowhere near as bad as I have made it out to be constantly for the last two years. Did Labor spend more than they should have? I believe the answer is yes. Was there debt before Rudd and Gillard came along? There was.

My point is, I may have gone too hard with words like “crisis” and “mess”. The first rule of economics is that economics is not a science. Economics is about human behaviour as much as numbers. And when humans hear a negative message too often, they respond like humans and lose confidence.
It was never my intention to undermine the resilient, structurally sound miracle which is the Australian economy. We’re the only country to have ducked all the major financial shocks of the last 20 years, and I would hate to jeopardise our future prosperity by talking the economy down.

So I won’t.

That said, the government I lead will continue to hand down tough budgets with numerous unpopular measures.

I know it’s a significant amount for low income families and the elderly, but I don’t think $7 is that much to ask the average Australian to visit a doctor with a minimum of six years training at university. Health care is by far the biggest single expense (apart from welfare) the government faces each year.

Much of the criticism of last year’s budget was old Labor Party class rhetoric. Well, if you won’t cop our clichés, you shouldn’t cop theirs either.

By the way, you’ll notice that’s the first time I’ve said the word “Labor” in this speech. I’m not going to blame them anymore, or even mention them. Campbell Newman completely alienated himself from the Queensland public by spending three years saying he was cleaning up Labor’s mess. At some point, that message becomes a screen for your own stuff-ups. I believe this government has reached that point.

So from here on in, this government is no longer about clichés, or blame, or dumb symbolic gestures. It’s about policy.

We’re going to focus on our small business jobs package, which will deliver a small business company tax cut on July 1 of 1.5 per cent or more. We’ll make childcare affordable, so that we can keep parents in the workforce. We’re going to build all those roads and other infrastructure projects.

Above all, this year is going to be about real communication. No more Phony Tony. No more regurgitating old dog-eared slogans.

People despise politicians who play along to the relentless hum of the 24 hours news cycle, and I’m not going to play that game that anymore. That was Kevin Rudd’s greatest fault and it’s been a fault of mine too. I’m no longer going to repeat the mistake.

What I am going to do is fight to enact the policies we believe in. And if the Australian people don’t like them, they can vote us out at the next election in 2016. Until then, I’ll be hard at work in my office.”

If only he did say that.

Nice find there Zen, you had me all confused for a while, until I read it properly. Though to be fair to Tony I think he came across alright in his press club adresss. Considering the press and pressure around him he pulled it off, still dont like him or anything he stands for but he appeared and asked questions alright. A lot to be said for having conviction.

From Stunet
Surely industrial relations is an old battle? The work force is far more mobile and transient these days, and most aappear to like it that way. How many consituents can Labor rely on if they make that their main focus?

IMO Labor's crisis is the transition from affirming labor rights to affirming human rights. To some it would appear two sides of the same coin, yet to others - less-educated shop floor workers? - there is no overlap between workers rights and, say, the rights of refugees. Never mind they're dirt poor and desperate, they're coming to take our jobs remember?

A coherent worldview has to be created and relayed to the people - which is something K-Rudd did. And then it has to be decisively acted upon - something he didn't do.

A very white middle class male view there Stunet, me being a black working class lesbian, I see it differently.

Actually I see it very similar to you, though I think if Labor do not represent workers then who does?

I agree its an old battle and Industrial Relations probably wasn't the right term to use. While I do see the 457 visa thing as 'work choices' by stealth. I dont really go with the 'they are stealing our jobs' thing, I have said on other posts that ozzies are either too soft or otherwise occupied to fill current positions, and personally I would increase the intake of refugees, but they would be "dirt poor and desperate" not the middle class economic refugees that seem to make up the bulk currently.

Having said that, things are going to change rapidly in Australia as this boom thing winds down. It will be slow at first but I believe over the next five years industrial relations will become a big issue as the huge wages and excellent conditions that tradesmen and miners currently enjoy are wound back. It is inevitable in a way, its how stuff works, boom bust for all.

Whether your human rights (global I'm guessing as most Aussies have it pretty bloody good) is a priority under the new conditions remains to be seen. What should be, and should have been, a priority is aboriginal people's rights to be educated and involoved in the boom, because they dont really have it pretty bloody good. This is where the boom has been squandered. Yeh people will say they have all the oppotunities in the world, but for whatever reasons, we have failed in including them in the good times.

When times are not so good, everyone will be questioning this period and the 457 joke. If either side had any vision they would have increased real training for all Australians (not the big business retail traineeships rip offs). And I would have thought that was Labor's domain.

Yeh IR is a bit outdated and it shouldnt be their be all and end all, but surely it has to be part of their platform, because the other side dont do it well, and Labor needs something!!

"If only he did say that"?! Here's a coupla responses:

a) if only he THOUGHT that...ever.

b) who'd believe him now whatever he said?

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me... You can't get fooled again!"

stunet]<p>[quote=sypkan wrote:

This is what Labor should be about, but unfortunately suffering an identity crisis they have got caught up in every possible minority group and cause possible, and causes within causes are developing new causes to ask for funding, all good causes no doubt, but you cannot fix everything. So you need to prioritise and focus on your core causes, which in my book for Labor would be industrial relations etc.

Surely industrial relations is an old battle? The work force is far more mobile and transient these days, and most aappear to like it that way. How many consituents can Labor rely on if they make that their main focus?

IMO Labor's crisis is the transition from affirming labor rights to affirming human rights. To some it would appear two sides of the same coin, yet to others - less-educated shop floor workers? - there is no overlap between workers rights and, say, the rights of refugees. Never mind they're dirt poor and desperate, they're coming to take our jobs remember?

Stu, don't you believe that 457 's are denying jobs for Australians at least in the short to medium term, and as Sypkan says, leading to a large reduction in the standard of living for Australians through the lowering of wages ?

I know DOZENS of qualified people that were denied a start in the WA mining boom as positions were distributed amongst a fleet of 457 visa holders. Many of whom were unskilled for he positions they were employed in.

And just wait till the Chinese and Koreans start supplying their own labour for their projects in Australia.

Wages like the ads for Coles mate- Down, Down, Prices are Down.

Then we will have achieved blissful neutrality of advantage with Asia !
And like Asia there will be an inequality divide that is the stuff of nightmares. All those Gong and Shire tradies will be the new working poor.

Fuck Blowin, that was the most abysmal attempt at quoting I've seen. Who was quoting who?

Anywho...I don't think Industrial Relations should be ignored, just that they can't be the platform a political party rests its hat on anymore. Their scope has to be broader than that. Reality is, as much as I think 457s are a rort their impact effects a very, very small percentage of the population.

Stu, you've seen my posts since that ludicrous brick wall of letters that was my original post. You must surely realise that I have no clue what I'm doing and am a self ( half ) learned computer moron.

Anyway....

Early days for 457's. The regional areas are the canaries in the coal mines at the moment . Effects might be diluted through the scales involved in metro areas so far.

Think of say the next stage of the Ord development at Kununnura in Northern WA. Emerging town, growing population and the vast majority of future works will be Chinese development. Utilising Chinese labour.
Minimal trickle down effect as workers will be sending their ( minimal ) wages back home and existing on Chinese run work camps. You don't qualify that as " stealing our jobs " ?

We will be as disenfranchised from the advancement of the region as the local Aboriginals are presently .
Will two wrongs make a right ?

It's not that a party should base its entire platform on IR, but a party, any party, should represent the interests of the 80 percent of Australians that exist on wages. The people on the coal face of furthering the interests of this country in a real time , physical manner.

The entire premise of the 457 deal is to flood the labour market therefore lowering wages and delivering a higher margin of returns to capital. Do you really think nurses, for example , should be worried about their ability to maintain a living wage ?

I'd say that the ability to maintain a livelihood whilst providing an essential service constitutes a basic human right. Denigration of human rights isn't always limited to the exoticism of a few thousand refugees.

Good question tonybarber, re - current Labor bunch probably none.
Re - Tom Uren we are talking OLD LABOR, when people were a lot less educated, when a university education was something only the elite / wealthiest could afford. His life experiences shaped him.

Yep, you have hit it. It is not really relevant nor expected that anybody from LNP be like old Tom Uren or even Gough but importantly, it would be expected to see the next generation Labor people being of the same mould. Tom was right, I think. Interestingly, Albanese was his assistant and has a bit of the old Labor in him but the party rejected him. I remember Tom as a true socialist and pacifist.