Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

@fishlegs you dont think too much money is handed out?or that its spent to its most usefullness or the greatest value for the indigenous?
@sheepie heffernan isnt a powerbroker?from what i've heard him say he seems to be one that doesnt toe the party line..him and katter and barnaby are my favs or the ones i can most relate to

braudulio wrote:

hem-stret wrote:

as for our hard done by women, jeez if you are an aussie woman not absolutely killing it now in any job youre not qualified for you never will ( i admit i could be educated further in this point but i havent heard a good one from any debate ive heard in australia)

Care to elaborate, couldn't make head nor tail of that.

No worries. Loose grammar, thought bubbling. The topic had gone I thought onto the disadvantaged and downtrodden. We are having a go or defending some aspects of the planets ' lifestylers' and 'obsolete' races. What Im tired of is our aussie women constantly screaming disadvantage in this day and age. But they never say thank fuck we live in Australia where opportunity has never been better, never a thankyou to those that realised pay inequality and job discrimination was BS. But if you have an advantage and a platform then I suppose more power to them!They are driving it home........ but if you want to breed up, fuck off, I do not want to pay for your childcare. If you cannot afford them dont have them. kids arent a right either. different' discussion' but the same thing when we are talking handouts. Same applies to industry.

barley wrote:

@fishlegs you dont think too much money is handed out?or that its spent to its most usefullness or the greatest value for the indigenous?
@sheepie heffernan isnt a powerbroker?from what i've heard him say he seems to be one that doesnt toe the party line..him and katter and barnaby are my favs or the ones i can most relate to

I don't mind Katter.... he's out here, but a good bloke..... However, Heffernan is a pig of a man.... I'd like to see him call Julie Bishop "barren" like he did to the childless Gillard.....
Yeah, i don't mind Joyce..... A likeable nutter,like Katter....

I guess i need to clarify that further. At school for a while in the 70's the headmaster/principal was a female. my footy coach was a female. Very capable and I assume they just got up and did it. Our school was progressive and the footy team undefeated. My teacher was a singaporean female. I didnt even know there was an issue. But these quotas piss me off. Can I say my lack of ambition is due to a lack of white male role models when I was growing up and shoehorn me into a powerful board position?

Heffernans the one pushing all ya food labelling laws..country of origin stuff..he wont call bushop that because she's not..no offence but gillard was a very hard kind of isolated politician i dont think it was meant personally as in attacking her for being female more of a character attack as if thats any better..ha

barley wrote:

@fishlegs you dont think too much money is handed out?or that its spent to its most usefullness or the greatest value for the indigenous?
@sheepie heffernan isnt a powerbroker?from what i've heard him say he seems to be one that doesnt toe the party line..him and katter and barnaby are my favs or the ones i can most relate to

Mate it's a complicated issue, all the outlying communities have certain issues that need to be addressed. For example if a child needs to go to school via a bus, or go to boarding school or have state of art internet comm's for home schooling, it's those issues that need to have .GOV funding focused on. But there in, is another challenge, that is if the current political leaning at the time that passes legislation to address the issue, will without doubt change when the next political leaning get's voted in . Bottom line is education makes you smarter. The main problem for our sisters and brothers is uncertainty.

Barley... Google "heffernan barren".... It's all there.... Pig of a man....
Also, I don't know where you stand re' "free trade".... If you have been blowing the coalition trumpet on that one, then you are against Katter, who is vehemently against free trade agreements, as am I...

Re' aboriginals... "What about the children!!!! Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!!!!!!"

Patriotism and little kiddies..... The last two refuges of the scoundrel....

just started anew thread/forum, would love your feedback. thanks mate

davetherave wrote:

yes, and i have seen the same politics and matriarchal egocentric shit fuck things up. Dont come on here trying to pretend you know how they live, think, act and should be managed. It is 2015, they have to come up to speed. no one wants to see amazing natural resources destroyed and we all want our lands managed sustainably. But we cant keep giving money to a select few who become rich and let the others live on grog.
Get real, a giant rainbow serpent did not create the world, as fantastic and wonderful as we would all believe, it is as plausible as saying santa claus delivers toys to every child in a night. We should not disrespect our ancient cultures but we must acknowledge their ideas come from limited data.

Fishlegs u may say this is not right, but when I spoke to all the Bungjalaung Nation Elders about words for their wall of history, not ONE could agree on the language. Oh they'll bitch about this, but in the end I sill show, shut your mouth unless you know what your talking about to dave the rave

That'd be right, can you imagine a group of elders, say a group with some governing capacity being unable to agree on an issue?? How is it that they shouldve thought or acted in this case Dave?

As much as it hurts to say it " Team Australia" is the way forward. celebrate our different cultures but concentrate on things that will help the local communities.
I dont agree with a centralised government, I believe in Shires. A good example is the bloke who is the deputy premier of NSW. YEs he is a liberal but he has an understanding of local issues and how to effectively solve the problems local communities face,
TECHNOLOGY NOW MEANS ALL SHIRES/COMMUNITIES CAN COMMUNICATE ONLINE/TELEPHONE ETC ETC, instantaneously or very quick and cheap,
WAY CHEAPER THAN HAVING EXPENSIVE BUILDINGS/ FLASH CARS AND CHARGES FOR HOUSING THE POLITICIANS, AND WHY SHOULD THEY GET A HIGHER SUPER CONTRIBUTION TO OTHER AUSTRALIANS< DOES THIS MEAN THAT TEAM AUSTRALIA IS NOT AN EQUAL< FAIR EFFORT SHARED EQUALLY BY ALL WHO CONTRIBUTE.WHILST LET them have monthly internet meetings and quarterly meetings in Canberra. THis will make the main meetings focussing on Australian issues and opportunities.
THE ISSUES WILL BE ON THE EMPHASIS OF THE COMMUNITIES DEVELOPMENT, NOT IN CANBERRA..
AND MATBE WE WILL NOT HAVE TWO LOTS OF EGOTISTICAL POWER HUNGRY "NEANDERTHALS" REALLY ARGUING ABOUT WHO IS THE BEST SIDE TO RUN OUR COUNTRY., AND WIYH A FEW INDEPEDENTS WHO ARE BEING LOBBIED TO TAKE SIDES..
THIS MAY SEEM HARSH BUT LOOK AT THE COSTS INVOLVED TO RUN A NATIONAL GOVERNMENT THIS WAY. LOKCED UP IN CANBERRA WHEN IT WAS THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED THEM IN. GET THEM BACK INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES MORE.. WE DONT NEED FLASH BUILDINGS TO IMPRESS FOREIGN DIGNITARIES, BUT A COUNTRY THAT USES IT'S RESOURCES, PEOPLE, ENVIRONMENT AND TECHNOLOGY TO HAVE A COUNTRY WITH A GOOD QUALITY OF LIFE AND THE POSSIBILITY OF A PROSPEROUS SUSTAINABLE LIFE FOR FUtURE GENERATIONS.
In answer to u Silliicun, they should have told the answer of what living in Kowloon was like and how the timber losses and sandmining changed their way of life forever even to the fact that hardly anyone know knows the language anymore and give an account of the way they lived with the sea, river, and land and it was their connection to the country that was the most special thing to the local aboriginal people who lived and followed the sea and land as it provided food. THE planet and the people were one and honoured as such.. Namaste- may the spirit of life honour the spirit of life in you all ways,

Fishlegs wrote:

Has anybody on this thread actually lived on remote first nation peoples land?

Never lived there mate. I've spent a lot of time on the communities though.
More importantly, I've spent a lot of time living with a strong connection to the land.

We all have an inherent connection to the land. It's just that some people deny theirs by existing in an urban environment. It was only a few hundred years past, often not even that long ago, that we all existed at least semi - subsistence lifestyles. So to present Aboriginals as having an unequaled , unfathomable understanding of the planet is pure hippy bullshit.

For better or worse it is modern technology that enables the 7 billion people on this planet to exist. Population is the blessing and the curse of our times.n
Blessing in that it enables you, me and every son and daughter to exist simultaneously.
Curse in that the planet is being degraded , at least aestheticsally, in order to sustain us all.

The traditional Aboriginal lifestyle would not have been able to sustain this population.

Despite the desire of many Aboriginophiles to paint the aboriginal method of survival as an undeniable sign of love and respect for the country - some go as far as to call it custodianship as though they were caring for the bush through purely altruistic concern.
Now I'm not saying that aboriginals don't wholeheartedly love their lands , it's just that I'm afraid it was much more selfish than that. The only way to survive in a subsistence society without agriculture is to be constantly aware of over exploitation of available resources.
Through trial and error, they learnt not to over harvest for their own survival. It's not magic. It's learned knowledge.

That's my belief. Some would paint me as rascist- the small minded that would think that to criticise a mis-understanding of a culture is to criticise the culture itself.

Yet a culture is only a culture and never above reproach . You wouldn't scoff if I admitted finding Germans dancing in Lederhosen gut achingly funny or thinking that the Beef Eaters guarding Buckingham Palace look utterly ridiculous. And don't get me started on Catholicism.

Yet for some reason I'm supposed to view Aboriginal culture with reverence . A rainbow serpent ? Really ?

Is it guilt that predisposes you to judge any doubt as heretical ?

I'll admit as readily as anyone that Mother England and her Majesty and every avaricious piece of shit pastoralist , opportunist and chancer that saw a pound to be made in the Great Southern Land and trod roughshod over the carcass of the disenfranchised locals should be forever viewed with disgrace, shame and disgust.

Yet that is history now. I'm sure that there are plenty of people that still have living memories of the worst of the outright slaughters of tribes and the trading of humans as possessions . But that is no longer the case. That too is history.
Just as there are people remember the Japanese attempting to invade Australia, that witnessed the brutality and unforgivable atrocities committed . Time has come to move on.
The Japanese never succeed in their attack but enough life was lost and suffering inflicted to render the harm indelible in the national psych....yet we have forgiven and moved on.

Don't you think it's time that Australians forgave their forbears ? Forgave ourselves ?

I've never in my life uttered a single derogatory word towards an aboriginal , despite being on the receiving end of much more than passing denigration from Blackfellas myself. None of my relatives or ancestors are accused of harm or violence or despicable behaviour towards aboriginals. Nothing I've said is derogatory or abusive, yet there will be people clambering over each other to dismiss me as rascist or Bottom Dwelling as one particularly self impressed soul described it.

If you find that some misguided sense of personal guilt directs you to place Aboriginals on a pedestal then good luck, but count me out. I'd prefer to treat them on an individual basis and grant respect to those that deserve it or not accordingly. People are people are people.

If you think that aboriginals, in this day and age and forever more into perpetuity are to be accorded a subsidised living on the basis of having been fortuitous enough to be the first to arrive in Australia, then open your wallet and donate now. Personally, I'm done. Time is up as far as I'm concerned. You don't want to work or advance your skills for the benefit of the community or educate your children ? Fine. Just don't expect me to support you because right or wrong this is the world we are ALL subjected to whether we like it or not.
There are 7 billion very competitive humans that want to advance their cause at your expense. If you'd like to opt out and live off the land then go for it - just don't wait for the diesel generator to be refuelled daily from the sweat of someone else's brow.

Suffering and disadvantage are not solely the domain of Blackfellas and yet everyday, around the world people overcome these adversities. If you think that this ability is somehow beyond indigenous Australians then you are the only true rascist - someone that believes genetics leaves one deficient in some regard.

So back to topic....is it rascist to reduce funding to remote communities ? Definitely not. Is it pragmatic ? Yes. Is it right ? Depends on the circumstance.

I don't believe that a community should be completely funded just because it is aboriginal. Try this - it's 2015 , you're not living a subsistence lifestyle so, regardless of how pleasant it may be, it's over unless you can sustain it yourself.

And - this may really flatten the tyres of some -I can think this AND believe that corporate and middle Australian welfare should be rationalised. Also that a person can have an opinion on the direction they believe that the collective dollar spend of the Australian taxpayers should take even if it impacts negatively on a person that happens to have a different skin colour to themselves . To in fact not let race be a determining factor in the decision . Outrageous !

So for those closet socialists out there , that ironically contribute less to society than you're average tradie.....a person can have centralist beliefs.
Or even - imagine this - Ideas not dictated to them by a party or a newspaper.

How novel !

And another thing ... if I hear one more word about patriotism being the refuge of the scoundrel -a paraphrasing that is misappropriated and misconceptualised I might add - and that Aussie pride is a distinguishing and shameful trait limited to the inherently shameful Bogans ( it's OK to marginalise as long as the victim has the same skin colour I guess ) whilst lauding Aboriginals for having pride in their culture, I'll vomit.
It's good for one , it's good for all.

Fishlegs wrote:

Has anybody on this thread actually lived on remote first nation peoples land?

yrs i spent 8 months up in the mclwraith ranges above Coen when i was 19 and i was taught alot about surviving in the bush, And my dad was in charge of building the road into the Dianne Copper mine in the Palmer River, WE walked in to mark out where the road could go It took us three weeks and we learnt so much about their mythologies, alot based on fear and how animals had created these places based on how they moved and they were sacred because it gave them food. When i had to mark out track up to Leo Creek on the Mclraith for tywo weeks, i was guided by a barefoot blackfella that was unreal. he knew how to find tucker and spotted animals hiding anywhere. scared the shit out of me when he chased a goanna and it run straight up and over me. he was in hysterics and called me the goanna fella from then on,
One day he just disappeared, the night before he said the council was meeting and he was going then see the greed and waste that would happen on. he wanted projects and opportunities for the young, not handouts to the organised halfcaste wanna be white fellas he said cause blackfella's dont have an education about money, something to think about, but fuck im still scared of goannas, stayed at broken head caravan park and it was the scariest night and morning i have had for along time.

Blowin wrote:

Fishlegs wrote:

Has anybody on this thread actually lived on remote first nation peoples land?

Never lived there mate. I've spent a lot of time on the communities though.
More importantly, I've spent a lot of time living with a strong connection to the land.

We all have an inherent connection to the land. It's just that some people deny theirs by existing in an urban environment. It was only a few hundred years past, often not even that long ago, that we all existed at least semi - subsistence lifestyles. So to present Aboriginals as having an unequaled , unfathomable understanding of the planet is pure hippy bullshit.

For better or worse it is modern technology that enables the 7 billion people on this planet to exist. Population is the blessing and the curse of our times.n
Blessing in that it enables you, me and every son and daughter to exist simultaneously.
Curse in that the planet is being degraded , at least aestheticsally, in order to sustain us all.

The traditional Aboriginal lifestyle would not have been able to sustain this population.

Despite the desire of many Aboriginophiles to paint the aboriginal method of survival as an undeniable sign of love and respect for the country - some go as far as to call it custodianship as though they were caring for the bush through purely altruistic concern.
Now I'm not saying that aboriginals don't wholeheartedly love their lands , it's just that I'm afraid it was much more selfish than that. The only way to survive in a subsistence society without agriculture is to be constantly aware of over exploitation of available resources.
Through trial and error, they learnt not to over harvest for their own survival. It's not magic. It's learned knowledge.

That's my belief. Some would paint me as rascist- the small minded that would think that to criticise a mis-understanding of a culture is to criticise the culture itself.

Yet a culture is only a culture and never above reproach . You wouldn't scoff if I admitted finding Germans dancing in Lederhosen gut achingly funny or thinking that the Beef Eaters guarding Buckingham Palace look utterly ridiculous. And don't get me started on Catholicism.

Yet for some reason I'm supposed to view Aboriginal culture with reverence . A rainbow serpent ? Really ?

Is it guilt that predisposes you to judge any doubt as heretical ?

I'll admit as readily as anyone that Mother England and her Majesty and every avaricious piece of shit pastoralist , opportunist and chancer that saw a pound to be made in the Great Southern Land and trod roughshod over the carcass of the disenfranchised locals should be forever viewed with disgrace, shame and disgust.

Yet that is history now. I'm sure that there are plenty of people that still have living memories of the worst of the outright slaughters of tribes and the trading of humans as possessions . But that is no longer the case. That too is history.
Just as there are people remember the Japanese attempting to invade Australia, that witnessed the brutality and unforgivable atrocities committed . Time has come to move on.
The Japanese never succeed in their attack but enough life was lost and suffering inflicted to render the harm indelible in the national psych....yet we have forgiven and moved on.

Don't you think it's time that Australians forgave their forbears ? Forgave ourselves ?

I've never in my life uttered a single derogatory word towards an aboriginal , despite being on the receiving end of much more than passing denigration from Blackfellas myself. None of my relatives or ancestors are accused of harm or violence or despicable behaviour towards aboriginals. Nothing I've said is derogatory or abusive, yet there will be people clambering over each other to dismiss me as rascist or Bottom Dwelling as one particularly self impressed soul described it.

If you find that some misguided sense of personal guilt directs you to place Aboriginals on a pedestal then good luck, but count me out. I'd prefer to treat them on an individual basis and grant respect to those that deserve it or not accordingly. People are people are people.

If you think that aboriginals, in this day and age and forever more into perpetuity are to be accorded a subsidised living on the basis of having been fortuitous enough to be the first to arrive in Australia, then open your wallet and donate now. Personally, I'm done. Time is up as far as I'm concerned. You don't want to work or advance your skills for the benefit of the community or educate your children ? Fine. Just don't expect me to support you because right or wrong this is the world we are ALL subjected to whether we like it or not.
There are 7 billion very competitive humans that want to advance their cause at your expense. If you'd like to opt out and live off the land then go for it - just don't wait for the diesel generator to be refuelled daily from the sweat of someone else's brow.

Suffering and disadvantage are not solely the domain of Blackfellas and yet everyday, around the world people overcome these adversities. If you think that this ability is somehow beyond indigenous Australians then you are the only true rascist - someone that believes genetics leaves one deficient in some regard.

So back to topic....is it rascist to reduce funding to remote communities ? Definitely not. Is it pragmatic ? Yes. Is it right ? Depends on the circumstance.

I don't believe that a community should be completely funded just because it is aboriginal. Try this - it's 2015 , you're not living a subsistence lifestyle so, regardless of how pleasant it may be, it's over unless you can sustain it yourself.

And - this may really flatten the tyres of some -I can think this AND believe that corporate and middle Australian welfare should be rationalised. Also that a person can have an opinion on the direction they believe that the collective dollar spend of the Australian taxpayers should take even if it impacts negatively on a person that happens to have a different skin colour to themselves . To in fact not let race be a determining factor in the decision . Outrageous !

So for those closet socialists out there , that ironically contribute less to society than you're average tradie.....a person can have centralist beliefs.
Or even - imagine this - Ideas not dictated to them by a party or a newspaper.

How novel !

And another thing ... if I hear one more word about patriotism being the refuge of the scoundrel -a paraphrasing that is misappropriated and misconceptualised I might add - and that Aussie pride is a distinguishing and shameful trait limited to the inherently shameful Bogans ( it's OK to marginalise as long as the victim has the same skin colour I guess ) whilst lauding Aboriginals for having pride in their culture, I'll vomit.
It's good for one , it's good for all.

100% agree, very well said.

Interesting comments … now what do you suggest is the way forward ? All well and good to lambast society, peoples, governments or politicians but what are the ways forward. Separation - their own lands (Arnhem land), co-oxistence of some sort ? Different laws and regulations ?

Blowin... an 800+ word essay....

Firstly, do some research on the scoundrel quote... Then look at how the sheep people masses react to flag waving re' Nazi germany, Korea etc.... If an Australian jack boot gang come a' marching to my shop with torches cos' I aint flying the flag, I'll go down swinging....

Onto your 800 word essay.... To write that much on aboriginals, you must really take it to heart
But lets look at some facts;

From the abc - "Mr Barnett told 720 ABC Perth that in one community it was costing $85,000 per person per year to provide municipal services like water and sewerage."....... "THAT IN ONE COMMUNITY"..... Very tricky stuff, premier Barnett.....But what is the overall average, one may ask???? And if that average was politically helpful to Barnetts and Abbotts cause, why wouldn't they use it instead of cherry picking????
I have searched Barnetts and Abbotts words, the ABS etc...Nothing...
I'll clutch a number out of the air.... Let's say including the welfare payment, it costs 40k p/a on average..

Number of aboriginals in remote areas; From the abc;
"In W.A - 12000 aboriginals in remote areas...."
NT population is less.... Qld about the same as W.A... Southern states are far from remote.... Perhaps a couple of thousand in S.A.... So let's say overall 36000 remote aboriginals....
36000 x 40k = 1.4 billion...
Now, blowin..... Just remember that this money ends up back into the "system" - supplies from traders, diesel, tradesmen, truck drivers, internet providers etc etc etc etc.... It's not getting funneled offshore into tax havens... It's not getting sent "home" to Lebanon for a "cause"..... It's propping up the bush economy.... So for starters, you've fucked many many little traders scattered through the top end, which will have a ripple effect....

Now blowin.... Let's have some context....... Australian companies and their "lifestyle choices"...... In 2012 the ATO said 60 billion dollars was sent offshore to tax havens.....
http://theconversation.com/tax-haven-crackdown-still-to-deliver-missing-...

Cost of aboriginal "lifestyle choice" - 1.4 billion - which stays in Australia....
Cost of Australian companies tax avoidance - 60 billion - which leaves Australia...

Team Australia you say ??????? I'm off to Bermuda, mate.....

hem-stret wrote:

braudulio wrote:

hem-stret wrote:

as for our hard done by women, jeez if you are an aussie woman not absolutely killing it now in any job youre not qualified for you never will ( i admit i could be educated further in this point but i havent heard a good one from any debate ive heard in australia)

Care to elaborate, couldn't make head nor tail of that.

No worries. Loose grammar, thought bubbling. The topic had gone I thought onto the disadvantaged and downtrodden. We are having a go or defending some aspects of the planets ' lifestylers' and 'obsolete' races. What Im tired of is our aussie women constantly screaming disadvantage in this day and age. But they never say thank fuck we live in Australia where opportunity has never been better, never a thankyou to those that realised pay inequality and job discrimination was BS. But if you have an advantage and a platform then I suppose more power to them!They are driving it home........ but if you want to breed up, fuck off, I do not want to pay for your childcare. If you cannot afford them dont have them. kids arent a right either. different' discussion' but the same thing when we are talking handouts. Same applies to industry.

Well, sadly that's pretty much what I was expecting. Thanks for the disappointment. Carry on.

Sheepdog wrote:

Blowin... an 800+ word essay....

Firstly, do some research on the scoundrel quote... Then look at how the sheep people masses react to flag waving re' Nazi germany, Korea etc.... If an Australian jack boot gang come a' marching to my shop with torches cos' I aint flying the flag, I'll go down swinging....

Onto your 800 word essay.... To write that much on aboriginals, you must really take it to heart
But lets look at some facts;

From the abc - "Mr Barnett told 720 ABC Perth that in one community it was costing $85,000 per person per year to provide municipal services like water and sewerage."....... "THAT IN ONE COMMUNITY"..... Very tricky stuff, premier Barnett.....But what is the overall average, one may ask???? And if that average was politically helpful to Barnetts and Abbotts cause, why wouldn't they use it instead of cherry picking????
I have searched Barnetts and Abbotts words, the ABS etc...Nothing...
I'll clutch a number out of the air.... Let's say including the welfare payment, it costs 40k p/a on average..

Number of aboriginals in remote areas; From the abc;
"In W.A - 12000 aboriginals in remote areas...."
NT population is less.... Qld about the same as W.A... Southern states are far from remote.... Perhaps a couple of thousand in S.A.... So let's say overall 36000 remote aboriginals....
36000 x 40k = 1.4 billion...
Now, blowin..... Just remember that this money ends up back into the "system" - supplies from traders, diesel, tradesmen, truck drivers, internet providers etc etc etc etc.... It's not getting funneled offshore into tax havens... It's not getting sent "home" to Lebanon for a "cause"..... It's propping up the bush economy.... So for starters, you've fucked many many little traders scattered through the top end, which will have a ripple effect....

Now blowin.... Let's have some context....... Australian companies and their "lifestyle choices"...... In 2012 the ATO said 60 billion dollars was sent offshore to tax havens.....
http://theconversation.com/tax-haven-crackdown-still-to-deliver-missing-...

Cost of aboriginal "lifestyle choice" - 1.4 billion - which stays in Australia....
Cost of Australian companies tax avoidance - 60 billion - which leaves Australia...

Team Australia you say ??????? I'm off to Bermuda, mate.....

If An Australian jack boot gang comes marching into my shop with torches ....ha ha stop it Sheepy. My sides are splitting . But seriously, it's a bit early to be drinking isn't it ?

Mate , I think you'll find that the Scoundrelous patriot quote refers to false patriotism being used to further ones own selfish end ala Tony Abbott. Not to the genuine feeling of patriotism that you love to denigrate regarding anyone that believes Australia is a great place to live , be associated with and be a resident of.

To add to your love of outrageously imaginative melodrama you really love to conflate issues don't you ?
Offshore tax evasion has zero to do with the issue discussed. It is ALSO wrong.
Do you see how that would be possible ? That two things can co exist that are both harmful to the nations bottom line and that one doesn't sanction the other ? It's a lot to get your head around I know...

Only $40,000 per year for each Aboriginal living in a remote area on taxpayers coin ?
How much tax did you contribute to the coffers that supply all our essential services last year Sheepy ?
I'd hazard a guess and say that you didn't even manage to pay for a single person to live a life unimpeded by the realities of economics just so their sensibilities weren't offended.

Only 1.4 BILLION DOLLARS Sheepy !

According to your unfailingly accurate guestimations anyway.

Do you realise what could be achieved with that money if spent in a worthwhile manner ie health ?

All I'm saying is that if you want to sustain the life of someone that chooses to remain in a place of zero employment and services, then you can pay for it with your net income if you like. Put your hand into your own pocket and get it out of mine.

Fine... As long as you didn't take a first home owners grant, blowin... I shouldn't have to pay for a share in your house..... As long as your missus didn't have her hand out for a baby bonus... Why should I pay for for your nappies, mate?
So get your hand out of my pocket, mate.... And make sure your super' is up to scratch... Don't come crying to me wanting a aged pension cos you didn't plan for the future.......

Ohh... And 10.2 BILLION in funding another "lifestyle" - privately owned schools.... And that was in 2011/12...
Abbott has ramped it up even more..
Why should "I" have to pay for latte sippers wanting to send their kids to Saint dickpull grammar?

I like like blowin's essay, quite the wordsmith, i hope you can put your talents to better use than swellnet jousting, I think he represents a lot of people not articulate enough to express themselves. And that's important in our so called democracy that favours class and dismisses those not so articulate. I particularly like how he points out the self righteous moral high ground wafflers are some of the biggest 'haters' so full of their own shit they're doing the same shit they condemn others for.

Having said that, I dont agree with everything and I must praise sheepdog for his sleuthlike rebuttal. Those figures are important and show many people in communities are probably not receiving much more other communities. However there are a lot of additional services available to aboriginals, which while well intentioned deliver poor outcomes. I believe the ire of blowin and co. comes from the hypocracritical and condescending manner in which arguments are presented shutting down debate and undermining our so called democracy.

Sheepdog, you say what about the children? Trust me I am thinking of the children, and I'm not against generous funding. It's just that the generous funding is gaining poor outcomes and is often contributing to problems. A huge problem is that the leftys running the show who apparently despise racism, are practicing racism with low expectations, racist assumpttions and non accountable outcomes. Apparently these are the mistakes of the past if you read the theory.

Something has to change in these communities, and they are changing as elders reject the self righteous lefty hyperbole and implement tactics that suit their needs, ignoring the white middle class do gooders who are caught up in their self importance. That's not to say these people are useless, there are many good people out there, but when things aren't working its time to reasess.

Things do seem to be getting better in communities but Australia has a huge problem to face over coming decades with things like alcohol feaotal syndrome, a white problem too, but the percentage in comunities is quite high. This syndrome manifests itself as kids with add, under developed frontal lobes, which equates to impulsivity, aggression, dyslexia and other learning difficulties which is contributing to incarceration rates at least as much as cultural differences. This is combined with intergenerational trauma creating a complex problems. There are a heap of these kids coming through now, the offspring of 3 generations of drinking and many generations of trauma. It's taken many generation to create these problems and will take many to reverse/halt them. Thankfully the tide has turned but the repercussions will be dealt with for al least another 100 years. Some tough love to stop the party is not a bad thing.

Hemstreet, gotta agree, I'm tired of women whinging too. If you want kids then you need to want to be a mother. Out sourcing parenting is not cool, and why should eveyone else foot the bill? The irony is the feminists are creating a new class based society, that seems to be the oppsite of the ideal they are preaching. Also amongst those not quite in the middle class, it seems women have beter jobs and paypackets than men, hence their difficulty finding any 'decent men', which basically equates to. a metrosexual with a bigger paypacket (because contrary to their arguments all they care about is money and power). The modern ideal husband is a pussy whipped moron. Wage disparity exists because of high paid executive men, not because the average bloke is paid too much compared to women.

37 pages of political Abbott stuff.....?
This honestly has to be the longest thread in SN's history????... Floyd;)

All good conversation and good points raised, maybe we should send this forum to the pollies.
Women, life has cycles and for along time the masculine energy has been the dominant force, But it is evident that it has produced outcomes that haven't worked for the whole population and the planet. All the hullabulloo about dec 21 20012 was about the coming of the feminine energy to play the major or shared role.
THey were supposed too be the nurturing and caring custodians of our populations and planets working as co creators with the masculine to achieve out comes that work for all,
But currently we are seeing their resentment at being treated inferior by men for so long and they have forgotten the way forward is a nurturing one. THey are copying the masculine model and it is not working. MOthers placing more importance on economic survival than being with their children. Women more concerned with pop culture than undertaking skills that will help us all, and of course, the status factor and possession obsession is the main priority.
Maybe it is a transition time or maybe Planet Earth is the experiment to let consciousness run wild with the emphasis on accumulation and selfishness. The physical example of relativity- having- and not having- rich and poor- healthy and unhealthy- winners and losers. Whatever the role one plays, they will die. So it all ends up the same. THe biggest and the smallest, the smartest and the dumbest, all end up as equal dead.
Lucky there is another adventure to play after the finish of this weird amd wonderful experience.

I've never received any of the handouts you're referring to Sheepy. I don't think anyone should be getting them either.

I say fuck off the middle class welfare as stridently as I say fuck off supporting infrastructure for a five person " community ". Yet you call me rascist for one and not the other.

Fuck off support for private schools.

And fuck any other bloated , fund sucking schemes you want me to defend in an attempt to pin me for being selective in my abhorrence to waste of valuable public funds.

Floyd would have you believe that it's lack of income that is bankrupting the government. What a load of shit. Even without the resources super profit tax scheme, the last decade of boom times has seen rivers of gold passing through government hands and yet they still blew the lot.

Look at WA for fucks sake. Once in a century opportunity squandered through financial mismanagement.
No lack of funds there or federally.

The governments of all persuasions are acting like an upscale version of a FIFO worker that earns big and spends bigger only to be left with an empty wallet, a pile of debt and an expression of genuine surprise on their face when their contract ends, wondering how they could be broke .

It's because they spent too much, not because they weren't earning enough.

The nation is no different, except it always seems to be the people that contribute the least that are the most vociferous about cutbacks in spending.

As for super Sheepy, I'm not counting on it. Best you look after your retirement yourself. I wouldn't even contribute if it wasn't mandatory.
Fuck leaving my hard earned to be dispensed, mishandled and controlled by whichever inept government of the day.

If you place your trust, belief or money in the hands of any authority apart from yourself you're a fucking idiot.

What about your avatar Welly....someone's been naughty.

its because he wears budgie smugglers and not boardies welly. THere has always been a bad vibe between the boardies and the clubbies, who once confiscated your boards and made you pay to get them back. sounds like an abbott policy, and this is typified by them placing the flags on the best banks on the beach. no idea, just making sure they look the part. post note, i have no political affiliation with any party.

Sheepdog wrote:

At least you didn't play the Muslim card.
Je suis Charlie.
very clever.

Hmm ...yeak those uppity black fellas using all that money.......damn silly culture nonsense...we need $50 billion to pay for our new submarines and strike fighters...keep those uppity black fellas in line...

and yeah lets not look back on the past ....like those germans ....in WWII.......

Yeah Brutus. Get rid of the submarines and jets and you won't have to refer to attempted invasions of Australia in the past tense....another country will be here to invade next week.

If we hadn't had an Air Force or a navy when the Japanese and Germans tried to invade then we wouldn't be talking about preserving Aboriginal culture . They would have been the first for execution when the yellow peril steamed over the horizon.

What's this shit about keeping those uppity Blackfellas in line ?
And I thought Sheepy was melodramatic.

Now now, blowin.... Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house, mate.....
Buddy, my point is........ Ahhh forget it......

You've got a bit of Blackfella in you don't you Brutus ?

Maybe it would be a good idea if you just laid low , out of sight for a while because there is a few crew that would like to paint Blackfellas as one dimensional children that wilt and die if removed from their homelands and lose all sense of identity and have no resources with which to cope in a big, wide , interesting, opportunity filled world.

And your happiness, worldly manner and success is crueling the grim caricature they wish to portray as aboriginal reality.

So best you keep your head down for the sake of the team.

Blowin wrote:

Fishlegs wrote:

Has anybody on this thread actually lived on remote first nation peoples land?

Never lived there mate. I've spent a lot of time on the communities though.
More importantly, I've spent a lot of time living with a strong connection to the land.

We all have an inherent connection to the land. It's just that some people deny theirs by existing in an urban environment. It was only a few hundred years past, often not even that long ago, that we all existed at least semi - subsistence lifestyles. So to present Aboriginals as having an unequaled , unfathomable understanding of the planet is pure hippy bullshit.

For better or worse it is modern technology that enables the 7 billion people on this planet to exist. Population is the blessing and the curse of our times.n
Blessing in that it enables you, me and every son and daughter to exist simultaneously.
Curse in that the planet is being degraded , at least aestheticsally, in order to sustain us all.

The traditional Aboriginal lifestyle would not have been able to sustain this population.

Despite the desire of many Aboriginophiles to paint the aboriginal method of survival as an undeniable sign of love and respect for the country - some go as far as to call it custodianship as though they were caring for the bush through purely altruistic concern.
Now I'm not saying that aboriginals don't wholeheartedly love their lands , it's just that I'm afraid it was much more selfish than that. The only way to survive in a subsistence society without agriculture is to be constantly aware of over exploitation of available resources.
Through trial and error, they learnt not to over harvest for their own survival. It's not magic. It's learned knowledge.

That's my belief. Some would paint me as rascist- the small minded that would think that to criticise a mis-understanding of a culture is to criticise the culture itself.

Yet a culture is only a culture and never above reproach . You wouldn't scoff if I admitted finding Germans dancing in Lederhosen gut achingly funny or thinking that the Beef Eaters guarding Buckingham Palace look utterly ridiculous. And don't get me started on Catholicism.

Yet for some reason I'm supposed to view Aboriginal culture with reverence . A rainbow serpent ? Really ?

Is it guilt that predisposes you to judge any doubt as heretical ?

I'll admit as readily as anyone that Mother England and her Majesty and every avaricious piece of shit pastoralist , opportunist and chancer that saw a pound to be made in the Great Southern Land and trod roughshod over the carcass of the disenfranchised locals should be forever viewed with disgrace, shame and disgust.

Yet that is history now. I'm sure that there are plenty of people that still have living memories of the worst of the outright slaughters of tribes and the trading of humans as possessions . But that is no longer the case. That too is history.
Just as there are people remember the Japanese attempting to invade Australia, that witnessed the brutality and unforgivable atrocities committed . Time has come to move on.
The Japanese never succeed in their attack but enough life was lost and suffering inflicted to render the harm indelible in the national psych....yet we have forgiven and moved on.

Don't you think it's time that Australians forgave their forbears ? Forgave ourselves ?

I've never in my life uttered a single derogatory word towards an aboriginal , despite being on the receiving end of much more than passing denigration from Blackfellas myself. None of my relatives or ancestors are accused of harm or violence or despicable behaviour towards aboriginals. Nothing I've said is derogatory or abusive, yet there will be people clambering over each other to dismiss me as rascist or Bottom Dwelling as one particularly self impressed soul described it.

If you find that some misguided sense of personal guilt directs you to place Aboriginals on a pedestal then good luck, but count me out. I'd prefer to treat them on an individual basis and grant respect to those that deserve it or not accordingly. People are people are people.

If you think that aboriginals, in this day and age and forever more into perpetuity are to be accorded a subsidised living on the basis of having been fortuitous enough to be the first to arrive in Australia, then open your wallet and donate now. Personally, I'm done. Time is up as far as I'm concerned. You don't want to work or advance your skills for the benefit of the community or educate your children ? Fine. Just don't expect me to support you because right or wrong this is the world we are ALL subjected to whether we like it or not.
There are 7 billion very competitive humans that want to advance their cause at your expense. If you'd like to opt out and live off the land then go for it - just don't wait for the diesel generator to be refuelled daily from the sweat of someone else's brow.

Suffering and disadvantage are not solely the domain of Blackfellas and yet everyday, around the world people overcome these adversities. If you think that this ability is somehow beyond indigenous Australians then you are the only true rascist - someone that believes genetics leaves one deficient in some regard.

So back to topic....is it rascist to reduce funding to remote communities ? Definitely not. Is it pragmatic ? Yes. Is it right ? Depends on the circumstance.

I don't believe that a community should be completely funded just because it is aboriginal. Try this - it's 2015 , you're not living a subsistence lifestyle so, regardless of how pleasant it may be, it's over unless you can sustain it yourself.

And - this may really flatten the tyres of some -I can think this AND believe that corporate and middle Australian welfare should be rationalised. Also that a person can have an opinion on the direction they believe that the collective dollar spend of the Australian taxpayers should take even if it impacts negatively on a person that happens to have a different skin colour to themselves . To in fact not let race be a determining factor in the decision . Outrageous !

So for those closet socialists out there , that ironically contribute less to society than you're average tradie.....a person can have centralist beliefs.
Or even - imagine this - Ideas not dictated to them by a party or a newspaper.

How novel !

And another thing ... if I hear one more word about patriotism being the refuge of the scoundrel -a paraphrasing that is misappropriated and misconceptualised I might add - and that Aussie pride is a distinguishing and shameful trait limited to the inherently shameful Bogans ( it's OK to marginalise as long as the victim has the same skin colour I guess ) whilst lauding Aboriginals for having pride in their culture, I'll vomit.
It's good for one , it's good for all.

Gotta chuckle about that spiel. Only because I've put it in the context of you delivering it in front of a crowd of Maoris. I just wanna see that. Good luck to you brother!

Blowin..... You wrote to me - " Yet you call me rascist for one and not the other."

Can you please point out where I called you a racist?....... I can point out where you specifically called me a racist ( if I believe a "certain pov").....

But could you please show me where I said you were a racist......

Fishlegs wrote:

Blowin wrote:

Fishlegs wrote:

Has anybody on this thread actually lived on remote first nation peoples land?

Never lived there mate. I've spent a lot of time on the communities though.
More importantly, I've spent a lot of time living with a strong connection to the land.

We all have an inherent connection to the land. It's just that some people deny theirs by existing in an urban environment. It was only a few hundred years past, often not even that long ago, that we all existed at least semi - subsistence lifestyles. So to present Aboriginals as having an unequaled , unfathomable understanding of the planet is pure hippy bullshit.

For better or worse it is modern technology that enables the 7 billion people on this planet to exist. Population is the blessing and the curse of our times.n
Blessing in that it enables you, me and every son and daughter to exist simultaneously.
Curse in that the planet is being degraded , at least aestheticsally, in order to sustain us all.

The traditional Aboriginal lifestyle would not have been able to sustain this population.

Despite the desire of many Aboriginophiles to paint the aboriginal method of survival as an undeniable sign of love and respect for the country - some go as far as to call it custodianship as though they were caring for the bush through purely altruistic concern.
Now I'm not saying that aboriginals don't wholeheartedly love their lands , it's just that I'm afraid it was much more selfish than that. The only way to survive in a subsistence society without agriculture is to be constantly aware of over exploitation of available resources.
Through trial and error, they learnt not to over harvest for their own survival. It's not magic. It's learned knowledge.

That's my belief. Some would paint me as rascist- the small minded that would think that to criticise a mis-understanding of a culture is to criticise the culture itself.

Yet a culture is only a culture and never above reproach . You wouldn't scoff if I admitted finding Germans dancing in Lederhosen gut achingly funny or thinking that the Beef Eaters guarding Buckingham Palace look utterly ridiculous. And don't get me started on Catholicism.

Yet for some reason I'm supposed to view Aboriginal culture with reverence . A rainbow serpent ? Really ?

Is it guilt that predisposes you to judge any doubt as heretical ?

I'll admit as readily as anyone that Mother England and her Majesty and every avaricious piece of shit pastoralist , opportunist and chancer that saw a pound to be made in the Great Southern Land and trod roughshod over the carcass of the disenfranchised locals should be forever viewed with disgrace, shame and disgust.

Yet that is history now. I'm sure that there are plenty of people that still have living memories of the worst of the outright slaughters of tribes and the trading of humans as possessions . But that is no longer the case. That too is history.
Just as there are people remember the Japanese attempting to invade Australia, that witnessed the brutality and unforgivable atrocities committed . Time has come to move on.
The Japanese never succeed in their attack but enough life was lost and suffering inflicted to render the harm indelible in the national psych....yet we have forgiven and moved on.

Don't you think it's time that Australians forgave their forbears ? Forgave ourselves ?

I've never in my life uttered a single derogatory word towards an aboriginal , despite being on the receiving end of much more than passing denigration from Blackfellas myself. None of my relatives or ancestors are accused of harm or violence or despicable behaviour towards aboriginals. Nothing I've said is derogatory or abusive, yet there will be people clambering over each other to dismiss me as rascist or Bottom Dwelling as one particularly self impressed soul described it.

If you find that some misguided sense of personal guilt directs you to place Aboriginals on a pedestal then good luck, but count me out. I'd prefer to treat them on an individual basis and grant respect to those that deserve it or not accordingly. People are people are people.

If you think that aboriginals, in this day and age and forever more into perpetuity are to be accorded a subsidised living on the basis of having been fortuitous enough to be the first to arrive in Australia, then open your wallet and donate now. Personally, I'm done. Time is up as far as I'm concerned. You don't want to work or advance your skills for the benefit of the community or educate your children ? Fine. Just don't expect me to support you because right or wrong this is the world we are ALL subjected to whether we like it or not.
There are 7 billion very competitive humans that want to advance their cause at your expense. If you'd like to opt out and live off the land then go for it - just don't wait for the diesel generator to be refuelled daily from the sweat of someone else's brow.

Suffering and disadvantage are not solely the domain of Blackfellas and yet everyday, around the world people overcome these adversities. If you think that this ability is somehow beyond indigenous Australians then you are the only true rascist - someone that believes genetics leaves one deficient in some regard.

So back to topic....is it rascist to reduce funding to remote communities ? Definitely not. Is it pragmatic ? Yes. Is it right ? Depends on the circumstance.

I don't believe that a community should be completely funded just because it is aboriginal. Try this - it's 2015 , you're not living a subsistence lifestyle so, regardless of how pleasant it may be, it's over unless you can sustain it yourself.

And - this may really flatten the tyres of some -I can think this AND believe that corporate and middle Australian welfare should be rationalised. Also that a person can have an opinion on the direction they believe that the collective dollar spend of the Australian taxpayers should take even if it impacts negatively on a person that happens to have a different skin colour to themselves . To in fact not let race be a determining factor in the decision . Outrageous !

So for those closet socialists out there , that ironically contribute less to society than you're average tradie.....a person can have centralist beliefs.
Or even - imagine this - Ideas not dictated to them by a party or a newspaper.

How novel !

And another thing ... if I hear one more word about patriotism being the refuge of the scoundrel -a paraphrasing that is misappropriated and misconceptualised I might add - and that Aussie pride is a distinguishing and shameful trait limited to the inherently shameful Bogans ( it's OK to marginalise as long as the victim has the same skin colour I guess ) whilst lauding Aboriginals for having pride in their culture, I'll vomit.
It's good for one , it's good for all.

Gotta chuckle about that spiel. Only because I've put it in the context of you delivering it in front of a crowd of Maoris. I just wanna see that. Good luck to you brother!

You missed your chance Fishlegs. I've just spent a loooong night in a cyclone shelter playing cards with the cuzzies and they agree wholeheartedly with pretty much every thing I've said. Those fellas have a better understanding of the rewards of hard work and the self dependence that it allows than most.

They also understand that their culture is within them where ever they go and nothing is going to dilute it.
In fact they were bragging about the strong resurgence of their culture in a day and age where they are creating quite the diaspora from their homeland and being viewed as renown travellers and expats throughout the world. I've got a lot of time for those boys. Glad to see you're a fan as well.

Anyway back to topic....

Damn I hate Abbott, I mean really.
Let me count the ways....

Blowin wrote:

What about your avatar Welly....someone's been naughty.

Me and my wife....?
I know that would of got some reaction, thats why I put that one up...
Fuck I've got a great arse eh, and the slap is something else as well, lasted the next day;)

Anyways fellas back on topic Abboottavar.

Sheepdog wrote : I don't mind Katter.... he's out here, but a good bloke..... However, Heffernan is a pig of a man.... I'd like to see him call Julie Bishop "barren" like he did to the childless Gillard.....
Yeah, i don't mind Joyce..... A likeable nutter,like Katter....

Well Barnaby Joyce is a arsonist in my opinion ! A person who sold his soul to the devil back in 2005 by allowing the full privitasation of Telstra to occur. Politicians that sell our NATIONAL assets are committing treason. Joyce is SCUM, FILTH.!

The mayor of Pt.Lincoln, Sth Aust at the time (2005) made some very interesting comments re Joyce & the full privitasation of Telstra. He said that when Barnaby Joyce dies he will be the 1st one to piss on his grave - headstone in St.George (Qld)

PS-I'll be following him ! this time Tamworth !

Joyce is a lunatic that represents the fringe.....wacky Joe for PM politics in Australia. Which is the politics of hatred & division in Australia ! Be careful what you wish for !

Cheers Johno

Blowin wrote:

Yeah Brutus. Get rid of the submarines and jets and you won't have to refer to attempted invasions of Australia in the past tense....another country will be here to invade next week.

If we hadn't had an Air Force or a navy when the Japanese and Germans tried to invade then we wouldn't be talking about preserving Aboriginal culture . They would have been the first for execution when the yellow peril steamed over the horizon.

What's this shit about keeping those uppity Blackfellas in line ?
And I thought Sheepy was melodramatic.

gee blowin ...I think you might need to revisit the past and learn a bit of history......the only reason the Japanese were stopped from invading Australia was the defeat of the Japanese navy in the Coral sea battle.....ah by the U S Navy.......

Australia is buying strike force fighters from the USA ,not their newest,but 10 year old fighters....Indonesia is purchasing s-28's from Russia...which will out perform ours....so lets hope the Indos don't attack.......or do we rely on the USA......

and if china invades...??? we cannot protect ourselves without the U S......simple...so why do we need to spend.....to stop invaders....?

Sounds like you want those blackfellas to become white fellas by adopting western culture .....there is a big difference between lifestyle choices and cultural choices......your mocking of the rainbow serpent , and the connection aboriginals to the land......shows a lack of understanding of blackfella culture......in fact of any culture.....

50 years ago Aboriginals were not considered humans .....so Australia's western culture has really only started to try and understand that Blackfellas have different values and spirituality ( whoaaaaa.....don't get me started on western religion that has been forced onto.....?)....its a work in progress.....but by not looking back on our past and dealing with the warts and all....how can you move forward without the knowledge of past mistakes......our history has been a shocker.....but by dealing with it....we can rectify past mistakes or just continue repeating past mistakes......you call it shit....I call it "OUR" culture!

NOW

You've got a bit of Blackfella in you don't you Brutus ?

Maybe it would be a good idea if you just laid low , out of sight for a while because there is a few crew that would like to paint Blackfellas as one dimensional children that wilt and die if removed from their homelands and lose all sense of identity and have no resources with which to cope in a big, wide , interesting, opportunity filled world.

And your happiness, worldly manner and success is crueling the grim caricature they wish to portray as aboriginal reality.

So best you keep your head down for the sake of the team.

the first 12 years of my life I was not considered human by people like you!

I have lived a life in Australia of racism and ridicule......however as I have grown older I have learnt to forgive people like you.,as just narrow minded ,and uneducated....but to tell me to lay low and keep my head down......mmmm.....I feel sad that you cannot.........come up with something a little more positive than that.......

but then again.....you seem to have the same attitude/opinion of our current PM.....what do I say but ...

Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi.......oh you right w(h)ingers........and this is pertinent to the Abbot/Turnbull post...as our current PM does represent us all...

why would you bother?

juliebishop wrote:

"The less the internal workings of the Liberal Party are made public the better off for everybody."

Pure gold!

Blowin wrote:

Yeah Brutus. Get rid of the submarines and jets and you won't have to refer to attempted invasions of Australia in the past tense....another country will be here to invade next week.

If we hadn't had an Air Force or a navy when the Japanese and Germans tried to invade then we wouldn't be talking about preserving Aboriginal culture . They would have been the first for execution when the yellow peril steamed over the horizon.

Shit we musta had different textbooks at me skool, don't remember the Germans attempting to invade.

And you've missed the boat already on present tense invasions, it's already done and run. It's just they used dollars (or yuan) instead of planes/boats/subs/bullets. Please try to keep up.

"Dont come on here trying to pretend you know how they live, think, act and should be managed. It is 2015, they have to come up to speed."

"when I spoke to all the Bungjalaung Nation Elders about words for their wall of history, not ONE could agree on the language."

"In answer to u Silliicun, they should have told the answer of what living in Kowloon was like and how the timber losses and sandmining changed their way of life forever even to the fact that hardly anyone know knows the language anymore and give an account of the way they lived with the sea, river, and land and it was their connection to the country that was the most special thing to the local aboriginal people who lived and followed the sea and land as it provided food. THE planet and the people were one and honoured as such.. Namaste- may the spirit of life honour the spirit of life in you all ways"

"shut your mouth unless you know what your talking about to dave the rave"

Ahhhh the ego, what a wonderful thing

Johno210 wrote:

Sheepdog wrote : I don't mind Katter.... he's out here, but a good bloke..... However, Heffernan is a pig of a man.... I'd like to see him call Julie Bishop "barren" like he did to the childless Gillard.....
Yeah, i don't mind Joyce..... A likeable nutter,like Katter....

Well Barnaby Joyce is a arsonist in my opinion ! A person who sold his soul to the devil back in 2005 by allowing the full privitasation of Telstra to occur. Politicians that sell our NATIONAL assets are committing treason. Joyce is SCUM, FILTH.!

The mayor of Pt.Lincoln, Sth Aust at the time (2005) made some very interesting comments re Joyce & the full privitasation of Telstra. He said that when Barnaby Joyce dies he will be the 1st one to piss on his grave - headstone in St.George (Qld)

PS-I'll be following him ! this time Tamworth !

Joyce is a lunatic that represents the fringe.....wacky Joe for PM politics in Australia. Which is the politics of hatred & division in Australia ! Be careful what you wish for !

Cheers Johno

Fair enough, Johno..... Yeah, I don't agree with most of joyces policies..... And yeah, I'm anti asset sales... But unlike Abbott or Abetz or Hockey, with joyce you sort know where you stand... But I'll take your advice and keep a closer eye on him... Cheers.....

brutus wrote:

Blowin wrote:

Yeah Brutus. Get rid of the submarines and jets and you won't have to refer to attempted invasions of Australia in the past tense....another country will be here to invade next week.

If we hadn't had an Air Force or a navy when the Japanese and Germans tried to invade then we wouldn't be talking about preserving Aboriginal culture . They would have been the first for execution when the yellow peril steamed over the horizon.

What's this shit about keeping those uppity Blackfellas in line ?
And I thought Sheepy was melodramatic.

gee blowin ...I think you might need to revisit the past and learn a bit of history......the only reason the Japanese were stopped from invading Australia was the defeat of the Japanese navy in the Coral sea battle.....ah by the U S Navy.......

Australia is buying strike force fighters from the USA ,not their newest,but 10 year old fighters....Indonesia is purchasing s-28's from Russia...which will out perform ours....so lets hope the Indos don't attack.......or do we rely on the USA......

and if china invades...??? we cannot protect ourselves without the U S......simple...so why do we need to spend.....to stop invaders....?

Sounds like you want those blackfellas to become white fellas by adopting western culture .....there is a big difference between lifestyle choices and cultural choices......your mocking of the rainbow serpent , and the connection aboriginals to the land......shows a lack of understanding of blackfella culture......in fact of any culture.....

50 years ago Aboriginals were not considered humans .....so Australia's western culture has really only started to try and understand that Blackfellas have different values and spirituality ( whoaaaaa.....don't get me started on western religion that has been forced onto.....?)....its a work in progress.....but by not looking back on our past and dealing with the warts and all....how can you move forward without the knowledge of past mistakes......our history has been a shocker.....but by dealing with it....we can rectify past mistakes or just continue repeating past mistakes......you call it shit....I call it "OUR" culture!

NOW

You've got a bit of Blackfella in you don't you Brutus ?

Maybe it would be a good idea if you just laid low , out of sight for a while because there is a few crew that would like to paint Blackfellas as one dimensional children that wilt and die if removed from their homelands and lose all sense of identity and have no resources with which to cope in a big, wide , interesting, opportunity filled world.

And your happiness, worldly manner and success is crueling the grim caricature they wish to portray as aboriginal reality.

So best you keep your head down for the sake of the team.

the first 12 years of my life I was not considered human by people like you!

I have lived a life in Australia of racism and ridicule......however as I have grown older I have learnt to forgive people like you.,as just narrow minded ,and uneducated....but to tell me to lay low and keep my head down......mmmm.....I feel sad that you cannot.........come up with something a little more positive than that.......

but then again.....you seem to have the same attitude/opinion of our current PM.....what do I say but ...

Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi.......oh you right w(h)ingers........and this is pertinent to the Abbot/Turnbull post...as our current PM does represent us all...

Geez Brutus, if you'd comprehended that paragraph correctly you'd have realised it was about the way aborigines are portrayed as weak and hopeless individuals by those that believe they must be coddled and protected from a world that they are allegedly not able to cope with whilst I'm actually saying that they are strong, capable and resilient people.
It's not even as condescending as a compliment. It's a recognition of fact.

I thought for sure someone as educated as yourself would understand.

I was being facetious and saying that your happy existence ran contrary to the way that some would like you to believe is the only outcome for modern Blackfellas .

I suppose I could get really personal and mention how a person such as yourself doesn't really have the moral high ground necessary to grant forgiveness to myself but fuck it, if you're in a forgiving mood then so am I.

PS. So you don't think that Australia contributed an integral role in its defence against Japan ?

Interesting .

I dont like asset sales either, big business cannot be trusted to kkep prices down. Have alook at TElstra as an example. Cant get a fucking operator u can understand and help your problems, Takes days to come out and fix things, We had huge thundestorm- biggest ive seen- it took telstra five weeks to come out and fix their phones. I am sure u could all have similiar stories.
AS for the subs and jets, the next wars will be done by drowns, high flying bombers and NUclear subs- but mainly but a button pushing prick in an underground bunker. Train our youth, help the unemployed skill up. I would be like Gough Whitlam, but not close us off to the world, but i would have electricity, water, telecommunications and other vital infrastructure Australian owned. BUt run efficiently, fuck the many beaurocrats,(sp) have a simple decision process and fuck all these meetings off. Communicate thru modern it and get us all involved and proud to be growing australia.
Vote For Dave THE RAVE- THE AUSTRALIAN PARTY- WE KNOW= WE GROW!!!

I know there are some good number crunchers on this forum, so I'm going to ask them if they can have a look at making a comparison on welfare recipients of the outer suburbs of major cities and then correlate those numbers against the needs of remote communities. Feel free to include things such as, waste management, power, water, fuel and sewage.

Geez Brutus, if you'd comprehended that paragraph correctly you'd have realised it was about the way aborigines are portrayed as weak and hopeless individuals by those that believe they must be coddled and protected from a world that they are allegedly not able to cope with whilst I'm actually saying that they are strong, capable and resilient people.
It's not even as condescending as a compliment. It's a recognition of fact.

I thought for sure someone as educated as yourself would understand.

I was being facetious and saying that your happy existence ran contrary to the way that some would like you to believe is the only outcome for modern Blackfellas .

I suppose I could get really personal and mention how a person such as yourself doesn't really have the moral high ground necessary to grant forgiveness to myself but fuck it, if you're in a forgiving mood then so am I.

PS. So you don't think that Australia contributed an integral role in its defence against Japan ?

Interesting .

Yes Australia did play apart in WWII ..although miniscule compared to what the USA contributed..as is the case now. We are dreaming if we think that by spending 50$b on useless fighters and a couple of subs ......that this will protect us......how can we afford this when we are talking about having to supposedly cut back on our welfare system which supports the least well off in society??

We are now spending $600m in Iraq retraining the Iraqi's...what a sad joke...the one ethnic group who is taking it up to the IS are the Kurds....but we consider them a terrorist group. they are currently holding democratic elections are tolerant of all religions and the IS are scared of these guys.....but we don' support them as they are considered terrorist group. An Australian was just killed on the front lines fighting IS ...if he came back to Australia he was looking at 20 yrs jail.

but Abbott suddenly finds $600m...I think we now have more than 500 ADF personal training .....the Iraqi arm again.....still.....but no support for the Kurds.....ouch..

as for me misreading your comments ...ah......OK.....but reading your posts ...not just the one paragraph about being strong capable and resilient..........there seems to be a lack of understanding of black fella culture.........just thought I would give ya little insight into some first hand stories......

I don't have any moral high ground.......and yeah I am sure you have some great rumor and innuendo about me.....whatever.....boring......forgiveness...not sure where any is needed here ?

.....we all have opinions....that is why we come onto these bds....to discuss

and maybe I am tad sensitive to Blackfella abuse and a lack of understanding...of Blackfella culture...I too was angry and racist once......but learnt to forgive those that were uneducated....but 50 years on......we are just at the beginning of understanding Blackfella culture.........and Abbotts "lifestyle cooment shows how far we still have to go..

brutus wrote:

I don't have any moral high ground.......and yeah I am sure you have some great rumor and innuendo about me.....whatever.....boring......forgiveness...not sure where any is needed here ?

.

Don't knock the rumour and innuendo Brutus, without it you'd be just another boring old bastard:-))

yeah shaun......rumor is I'm the best looking surfer shaper .....and I am actually related to Mohamed Ali.....and mum was Racquel Welch......hehehe...