Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right
Get rid of focus groups too while you are at it.
They give such a warped snapshot of reality they serve no purpose.
stunet wrote:
Blowin wrote:then utilise crowdfunding to reach the required financial target that will make the politician yours to command.
Kickstarter..?
Kickstarter right up their fuckin arses!
Blowin wrote:Only way to beat the lobby group fuckers is at their own game.
The politicians are for sale. Use social media to advocate the "influencing" of key pollies in certain directions as an investment in the country and the community , then utilise crowdfunding to reach the required financial target that will make the politician yours to command.
Even if the lobby groups have deeper pockets, the revelation that political influence is commonly available to the highest bidder will at least expose the putrid practise to greater public scrutiny.
I think blowin and I should form an anti lobby group lobby group...... ;)
be careful BIG Brother is watching......if ya form and anti-anti lobby group......how much money and power do you have to go to war with the established Lobby groups.....and you might end of being called a terrorist and .......??????
Your vote is powerful enough. Lobby groups are useful for all and coordinate information. It's greed that is a problem, not opinions or views.
Well, that's right, Tony.. Depends on what the lobby group is lobbying.... A lobby group to save Kirra being turned into a marina - good..... Coal seam gas - bad (IMO).....
here's a 'conspiracy theory' for y'all:
http://leesalittle.com/2014/03/06/warning-to-wa-voters-lnps-return-addre...
tonybarber wrote:Your vote is powerful enough. Lobby groups are useful for all and coordinate information. It's greed that is a problem, not opinions or views.
On what informed basis do you make that statement Tones? I would have thought from my reading that lobby groups are mostly created by the greedy to protect their stuff. I would like you to name one lobby group with altruistic motives.
Sheepdog wrote:Well, that's right, Tony.. Depends on what the lobby group is lobbying.... A lobby group to save Kirra being turned into a marina - good..... Coal seam gas - bad (IMO).....
Total misuse of the term lobby group, with respect Sheepy. Saving Kirra or a valley from CSG, well that isn't lobbying, that's often acting in opposition to lobbyists and their greedy financial backers. That's people power or direct action cos the law protects or gives rights to the greedy, its protesting, or blocking, or causing political embarrassment saving places like the Franklin, the Myall Lakes or Fraser Island.
Shatner'sBassoon wrote:here's a 'conspiracy theory' for y'all:
http://leesalittle.com/2014/03/06/warning-to-wa-voters-lnps-return-addre...
Good pick up SB, administrative error of course!
floyd wrote:Sheepdog wrote:Well, that's right, Tony.. Depends on what the lobby group is lobbying.... A lobby group to save Kirra being turned into a marina - good..... Coal seam gas - bad (IMO).....
Total misuse of the term lobby group, with respect Sheepy. Saving Kirra or a valley from CSG, well that isn't lobbying, that's often acting in opposition to lobbyists and their greedy financial backers. That's people power or direct action cos the law protects or gives rights to the greedy, its protesting, or blocking, or causing political embarrassment saving places like the Franklin, the Myall Lakes or Fraser Island.
No I don't think I'm misusing the word, mate.....
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Lobbying
"Lobby" isn't purely negative... It can be negative, and most lobby groups are. But some lobbying can be positive....
I hope the word "lobby" doesn't go down the same track as "union".
A list of 'Australian pressure groups' attached. Perhaps a more politically correct definition when compared to lobby group ? Anyway it covers a broad church of beliefs & some appear to be not for profit.
http://australianpolitics.com/democracy-and-politics/pg/australian-press...
The bloke just can't help himself..... Now he's pointing the finger at the doctors. Umm, Tony, stop picking fights..... To get a prescription renewal only takes 5 minutes......... It's not the doctors that haven't thought this through.........
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jan/14/medicare-rebate-ab...
@sheepy & johno, point taken. I think johno hit the nail on the head with of the use of the term "not for profit". Even high profile "lobby groups" like the Australian Conservation Foundation or Sea Shepherd are not for profit and ultimately their aim would be to add or improve to sum worth of human energy. From years of reading and research "lobby groups" like the IPA are secret fronts for miners or the tobacco or alcohol or gaming industries but they don't say that nor do they disclose the source of their funds and their aim is about representing their members or funders so that profits are maximised. Profit can be good but not when it kills people or leads to dispossession or when tax is avoided .... thats where I see the difference.
Floyd, I know what you are getting at... I think we'd all like to see more transparency re' lobby groups, whether they be an environmental or a corporate group.... Whether it be lobbying for pre selection/candidate, or lobbying those in power.... Transparency is the key....
hahahahahahahaha........ ""This proposition to justify his 2014 budget based on a not-yet-born baby's 150th birthday in a century-and-a-half's time, just shows that I suspect our Treasurer's simply lost the plot."
The lunatics have taken over the asylum...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-19/joe-hockey-claims-australians-live...
I was just thinking today Abbott & his ministers still think there is nothing wrong with their policies on health and education etc, they think the problem is the way they have delivered the message, that they need to better explain their polices to the electorate.
Wrong. So long as they think that the electorate will continue to turn off them and the further they will go down in the polls. If the polls are like they are now in 6 or 9 months the Libs are dead meat come the next election.
Hence Hockey's feeble attempt today.
Politicians can't look beyond the next election so why does Hockey expect us to look 150 years into the future?
I expect the Liberal ship will continue to take water and if it hits the iceberg of a Queensland loss to Newman maybe, just maybe they may realise its their policies stupid.
Its what you get when ideology is the god.
Agree Floyd,
"When Ideology is the god"
By there own admission in that attached link by sheepdog they admit they could fund Medicare by lifting the levy from the current 2% to 4%
Verbatim below
"The 2 per cent Medicare levy raises about $10 billion dollars a year which covers about half the total cost of Medicare.
"Ms Ley previously described the levy as "hopelessly inadequate" but Mr Hockey said his Government was not inclined to raise it"
PS- What do you reckon would happen if they ran a national plebiscite on the Medicare issue asking to raise the levy to 4% ? Personally I think it would receive a overwhelming + response if the monies were spent specifically on healthcare. No silver bullet here, but with a aging pop something has to give.
Roll on summer
The thing about the medicare levy is its based on Taxable Income.
The higher your taxable income the more you pay in medicare levy and conversely the lower your taxable income the less you pay. A reasonable percentage of Australians working part-time or casually have no taxable income for tax assessment purposes so they pay no levy at all. But many of these people may still pay for private health insurance but the private hospital system is mostly used by the middle and upper classes (Howard's policy push to get punters to cross subsidise private health care).
The current debate/policy push is conservative ideology 101 = (1.) lower the tax (levy) burden on the middle/upper classes by (2.) making the masses, the great unwashed, the punters pay more.
No conservative government like Abbott's is going to increase the Medicare levy even though its a very efficient way of raising the cash cos it hurts the people that back and vote for them.
But for those very same "efficiency reasons" stand by for a debate on raising the GST. The GST, unlike the Medicare Levy, impacts more on the lowest paid in our community.
Not sure about your plebiscite result Johno, still can't believe Australians swallowed the bullshit about the mining and carbon taxes and nothing like a $20 million fear campaign to sucker the gullible in.
I should add .... someone once said to me "90% of good management is common sense". Herein lies the problem with Abbott and his government. No common sense just all ideology.
Amen on the above !
Regarding the LNP federally, get rid of the driftwood ie Kevin Andrews - failure, Peter Dutton - failure, Eric Abetz - failure, Bronwyn Bishop - failure, Ian MacFarlane - failure. These politicians are by & large ready for retirement & man they are so well looked after, do not feel sorry for them ! Ultimately Turnbull for Treasurer it has to happen he is wasted given NBN is now yesterdays chip wrapper (Abbott ideology) Hi viz Tony is a fighter he will NOT lay down his arms, the LNP needs a REAL re-shuffle to survive.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-19/matthewson-signs-of-mutiny-on-the-...
Please, Malcom... Put him and all of us out of our misery.........
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/mutterings-in-unhappy-tony-abbott-ranks...
Yes Sheepy big Tony has to go and cant see how he can survive till the next election.
Yeah, simba.. I'd give Malcom a go....... He would have to steer the coalition away from this extreme right wing ideology, though....
I can really see what these neo capitalists have been up to now re' no dole for the young people (under 30s) and industrial relations.....
Step one was - kick the young.... demonise being on the dole if you are under 30.... Make the dole not available....
Step 2 "workchoices by stealth", where weekend penalty rates and the minimum wage were to be attacked, and protesting about it curtailed (released to the press yesterday)...
Final result would've been a 25 yo having their wage dropped, losing their time and a half on Saturday, but too scared to open their mouth in fear of losing their job, and therefore if sacked and now unemployed, not eligible for any assistance for at least 6 months....... Mortgage/car payments/bills...... Stuffed.... So the 25 yo would meekly have to wear it..... Dirty stuff.......
Thank god Australians stood up and said it aint fair instead of siding with tony in kicking the youth...
@sheepo .....
The guy making my coffee yesterday tells me he is on a 457 visa. Been working at the local cafe for 6 months. He is from Italy and loves it here as he has work whereas he was unemployed for 2 years back home.
Tell me there are no Australians available to do this job? Better still ask the good senator from Tassie who happens to be the Employment Minister how can this be?
Malcolm will not get the gig guys; we will have Abbott until the next election. This is what I pray for each night cos he will be Labor's biggest asset by then (not that I'm a Labor supporter rock dwellers).
It's official.... Worse government ever..... I though Gillard was bad.... But Tony now has the gold medal for worse ever, and Gillard has been relegated to silver....
Floyd, if you are praying for Abbott to remain at the helm just so Shorten can get an easier ride, well...... The damage that Abbott will inflict on our nation in the next 2 years will be irreversible..... I do not want this.... I want Abbott gone.. I want abbott gone now.......
Can't wait till Abbott is gone and he's stuck mooching around the world on his gold travel pass with a driver, car, staff and office to help in his newly minted role as consultant, lobbyist, executive director and chair on several boards.
I wish I could be there to see his face when he realises that he will be forced to exist on an indexed $200000 / year without getting out of bed.
Ha ha !! That'll learn him !
Old Julia is probably crying into her caviar too.
Crazy how the pollies who work for us.....choking...haha,get such amazing benefits after only a short time in politics,yet they never say they will cut back on their benefits to set an example. I mean how did it get like this?fukking scammers.So how many ex prime ministers are running around right now draining the coffers?
Six, not to mention former state premiers who do quite nicely in retirement as well.
@sheepdog, yeah you're right about the damage Abbott could do by next election but I reckon this 457 visa abuse / free for all is the neocons Workchoices on the downlow so lots of damage already being done. My hope above all others is the cross bench senators hold strong on many of these ultra right so-called reforms. I just don't think these jokers can help themselves, they are totally devoid of common sense.
Now Hockey like to misuse statistics it seems and here is another one ...... Middle Income Australians only pay 11 cents in the $1AUD in tax = 11% and not the 50% our Treasurer likes to quote .....
http://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/too-much-tax-middle-income...
Its what I have been saying for a long time. We don't have a spending problem its the income side that needs to be addressed. Again, because these neocons are fixated on expenditure they will continue to blunder their way to defeat at the next election.
Australians need a politician/ political party to be honest and say taxes have to increase. Until then its all fluff.
Re' "I reckon this 457 visa abuse / free for all is the neocons Workchoices on the downlow so lots of damage already being done"
For sure..... Death by a thousand cuts.....
Re' "taxes have to increase"..
I don't know about that.... But I do know public perception about debt has to change..... 10 year bond rate at historic all time low of 2.55%........ What would a smart business man do? Seems to be the perfect time and incredible deal to borrow and build...... Imagine a business loan or house loan at 2.55%...
Full article;
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/low-10year-bond-rates-are-the-deal-of-t...
More real jobs = more payroll tax... More real jobs = more people spending = more gst income.....
Yeah I saw that article. Kenneth Davidson from the Age has been saying the same thing for a few years now as an argument against these Private Public Partnerships that State Governments around the country are entering into to build roads and desalination plants etc. Rate of interest the states are paying on those projects is up around 8-10%.
Good thing that East West Project didn't go ahead as a PPP.
- The government can't build stuff Sheepy....it might encroach on the profitability of private enterprise.
I mean if Australia had developed it's own gas, oil or iron ore industries, then the returns would be in the hands of the entire Australian people rather than just Gina, Twiggy and a relatively few foreign shareholders.
- The 457 horse bolted years ago.
- I pay more than enough tax thanks Floyd. If you're keen to pay more then knock yourself out.
- You don't think any government spending is superfluous ? Not even the NSWSLACEN ? That would be the NSW Spanish and Latin American cultural centre - aiming to preserve the culture of Spanish and Hispanic Americans in Australia. God knows they need a hand, what with only having an entire continent already devoted to the task.
"The government can't build stuff Sheepy....it might encroach on the profitability of private enterprise"
Well, that's a fair point, blowin.... Fair point indeed...
But you gotta admit that it's funny how the gov' encourages personal debt via first home grants etc, jumps for joy when interest rates are low, therefore helping more to go into debt and punishing those of us with savings, but when as a nation we spend our way out of a gfc, or have the chance at a super duper cheap loan to build roads/infrastructure etc, it becomes a "budget emergency".....
Stop the bus.... I wanna get off........
This "government get out of the way of the market and business" ideology is just the biggest pile of stinking bullshit ever. There is a place for both in a modern economy and those economies doing really well are those where the government strategically act to improve outcomes for business and its citizens.
@blowin & Sheepdog. I would like to pay the least amount of tax possible but the thing is as a wage earner I have no choice or chance to reduce my tax. No family trust, no negatively geared investments, no company car, no company tax rate, no self managed super fund, no nothing. Now all those "investment vehicles" cost the country massive amounts of tax each year = billions and billions each year. Not quiet a level playing field for the punters who incidentally are likely to soon loose their weekend penalty rates.
I've always had to be frugal, Floyd.... I was the sorta guy in my 20s who used milk crates as furniture instead of going to Harvey norman and getting a loan for a freekn 5000 buck lounge just to impress..... When I used to drink, I'd buy the beer that was on special..... Rollies instead of tailors..... Bulk whole rump and cut it up yourself......When we had a loan, we put every spare cent on it... Always bought secondhand cars - cash.... Still on a pay as you go mobile..... Still driving a great old 97 falcon ( great old beast)..... So I am lucky enough now to have a few grand in the bank... Well no its not luck.... It's being smart..... I got given f/a by my parents.....
So people have a choice, mate.... If you get a loan, put every bloody cent into it...OK, you might miss the next Justin Bieber concert.... The pretenders sipping lattes who are up to their noses in debt might look at your old car and laugh.... But he who laughs last.....
You boys might like to read Larry Pickerings views , The Pickering Post.
Really? Makes Murdoch look like a tree hugging greenie commie leftie from the 50s. Still its good such a dickhead outs himself as such online I suppose.
Pickering... he's the guy that used to draw penis cartoons of pollies.... Is that right? Classy.......He states he is on an old age pension..... http://pickeringpost.com/about
You see, he's one of these boomer judgemental fucks that took and took and took.... He didn't bank for retirement, ripped off a heap of people as found by the qld supreme court, and now sits back and throws mud...... He's a disgrace.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Pickering
An absolute disgrace yes ....thieving scamming prick.
Draws a cartoon of Mohamed skewered and gets round the clock police protection.
Oh.... And "Sir prince Philip"...... So Abbott, Richie Benaud not good enough for you? Gotta suck up to the motherland? At least someone loves you, Tony.......
Drew a cartoon of Mohamed and is now under police protection ?
Regardless of anything else he does , my hats off to him. Standing up for what he believes in. Literally putting his life on the line for free speech. More power to him.
If people are scared of voicing their opinions now, how will we fare if secularists become a minority ?
Blowin, If you were one of the people that lost their life savings to this creep, I don't think you'd be that impressed with a fucking cartoon...... 15 million he ripped from mum and dad investors..... He's a creep, mate.... Just did the drawing for attention to promote himself..... Not a ounce of decency in him....
Anyways, Abbott has lost the plot..... Made Australia day a laughing stock by knighting a freekn pom.... Not just a pom, but the queens hubby......
Dead set nutter......
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/the-aristocrats-why...
Not aware of his ripping crew off Sheepy. That's unpardonable if true. Still doesn't diminish his contribution to our lifestyles. Are you prepared to put your life on the line in defence of our beliefs ?
As for the knighthood....are you aware of the irony involved in getting upset when a pommy is bestowed a knighthood ?
I couldn't be less impressed that an accepted honour of recognition within Australia is bestowed upon this Persona non grata, yet a knighthood? Let the useless fuck have it. With a guarantee he never attempts to influence our nation ,or set foot as a ruling monarch in this land ever again.
Relax, Phil's Greek.
Blowin wrote:Not aware of his ripping crew off Sheepy. That's unpardonable if true. Still doesn't diminish his contribution to our lifestyles. Are you prepared to put your life on the line in defence of our beliefs ?
As for the knighthood....are you aware of the irony involved in getting upset when a pommy is bestowed a knighthood ?
I couldn't be less impressed that an accepted honour of recognition within Australia is bestowed upon this Persona non grata, yet a knighthood? Let the useless fuck have it. With a guarantee he never attempts to influence our nation ,or set foot as a ruling monarch in this land ever again.
Mate, the whole world is laughing at us.... Even Murdoch press is covering it, and that's saying something.... It's Australia day, mate... Not piss in a royals pocket day.... Richie Benaud, Margaret Court, Dick Smith, even Barry bloody Humphries.... At least they're aussie.....
Now, if all you have to do after ripping people off is draw a picture and promote it, then Christopher Skase and Aland Bond should've gone to art class......
Would you forgive a pedo if he drew muhammed? nahhhh......
This is from the supreme court of Qld, Blowin - "The Supreme Court of Queensland found that Pickering derived "significant financial benefits" from ‘’Hamlyn Crest’’, the Australian distributor of the betting software, and that his denial of involvement in the management of the company was "thoroughly implausible".
Just google Larry pickering fraud... There's heaps of stuff on it..... Including this;
http://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2012/08/19/larry-pickering-who-rippe...
A shit load more involved than just " drawing a picture and promoting it " Sheepy.
I despise thieves. Can't put it any stronger than that except to say that it might be a rare point of commonality when I agree with Sharia law regarding the punishment of thieves.
Still, let's see you plaster Western Sydney with bill posters depicting Mohamed with your name and address boldly printed alongside Sheepy. It's only a cartoon after all....
Still, let's see you plaster Western Sydney with bill posters depicting Mohamed with your name and address boldly printed alongside Sheepy. It's only a cartoon after all....
So that's what Pickering did? Did he? He plastered posters all over western Sydney? With his name and address on it???? Come on mate.... You're off on a tangent lol.... I bet he just posted it on his blogsite for attention.... I bet his intentions weren't pure..... Just like his Gillard dildo cartoon......
No-one got anything to say about the loss of the car industry under a government and high viz Tony that promised to create 1,000,000 jobs?
Slumber away ........