Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right
Good luck with your health TGF..... I hope you come good :)
Cultural wars. A battle of ideas. Call it what you like but the conservatives and their media backers have been raging it since Hawke / Keating. First emerged openly under Howard .......
Remember Howard using the term un-Australian? Very cunning was Johnny using that term, except, it was used on his terms not in a traditional "fair go" sense.
We allnremember Howard declaring that "we will decide who will come to this country and the manner in which they come". Dog whistling race.
The mean cruel politics of exclusion, the us and them, the right and wrong, the anglo-celtic christian traditions verses Muslim and Asian neighbourhood, capital verses unionised labour.
And then Johnny handed out massive massive tax cuts and concessions to the middle and upper classes largely causing our budget problems now and introduced Workchoices, which was the step too far.
Those neocons learnt the lesson alright.
First create chaos in the parliament (this job was made easy with Crudd) and then lie lie lie to the electorate about what they would and wouldn't do.
So what has Abbott done? Killed unionised manufacturing; turned a blind eye to wholesale 457 visa abuse; created a larger budget deficit by killing the carbon and mining taxes and not proceeding on promised crack downs on tax abuse, called war service and age pensioners "welfare" recipients, funded christian education in schools, introduced knighthoods, ripped 10s of billions out of the health and education budgets and the list goes on.
And yet another review of the national curriculum under Pyne cos these neocons want history to say they are right. Stay turned Pyne will be announcing a withdrawing to Gonski commitments any day soon.
And now we have Morrison saying if we have a NDIS it will be from "welfare savings".
Note no-one is talking about increasing taxes, no neocons don't do that especially on business and especially so on multinationals.
Abbott isn't alone here, his entire front bench is likeminded, ultra right wing tea party low spending small government devotees to the nirvana of the market. This shift to the right was initiated by Howard and will continue for generations given all the young guns being voted into parliament.
Sheepdog wrote:Good luck with your health TGF..... I hope you come good :)
Thanks SD, ya know the health I can handle...it's the shit getting slung about to demonise sectors of the community that get's to me, whether it's the unemployed, the elderly or a religious minority...it's all based on someones bullshit ideology wrapped with lashings of fear...oh, and that fat payoff to sweeten the deal.
Let me ruin your day.
http://newslocal.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/iphone/homepage.aspx#_articl...
"Mr Abbott is notorious for surfing hard after snapping two surfboards last year"
Um....
"Less than 24 hours later, Mr Abbott was in Adelaide touring the bushfire-affected areas."
The cricket was obviously more important though, WTF was he doing in the commentary box at the SCG after lunch yesterday...he must have got all the fires and fallout under control with his awesome firefighting skills.
Craig wrote:"Mr Abbott is notorious for surfing hard after snapping two surfboards last year"
Um....
What's that move called...the old man shuffle?
It's the " I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm doing it anyway shuffle". An approach consistent with his political philosophy.
protect the reef official on Instagram is reporting 29.4% of eligible young Queenslanders are not enrolled to vote.
explains in part why a slippery newman has called a snap election ... nothing like not giving people who are likely to vote against you no time to get involved.
Yep not being registered to vote or more importantly NOT being interested to vote is a classic 'Gen Y' attitude. Talk to your kids if you are old enough. The debacle over the past 7 yrs of Crudd, Gillard, Crudd & now Tones has simply turned them off for the foreseeable future. This does not bow well the party machines will use this apathy to screw us.
What we need in Australia is a better mousetrap - a better DEMOCRACY.
Our Westminster system has served us well but it is out-dated & busted. How about something that gets close to a pure democracy take Switzerland for example. Refer link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland
Verbatim below from attached link
"Switzerland features a system of government not seen in any other nation: direct representation, sometimes called half-direct democracy (this may be arguable, because theoretically, the Sovereign of Switzerland is actually its entire electorate). Referendums on the most important laws have been used since the 1848 constitution"
"Amendments of the Federal Constitution of Switzerland, the joining of international organizations or changes to federal laws that have no foundation in the constitution but if in force for more than one year must be approved by the majority of both the people and the cantons, a (double majority)"
"Switzerland is the closest state in the world to a direct democracy. For any change in the constitution, a referendum is mandatory (mandatory referendum); for any change in a law, a referendum can be requested (optional referendum). Through referenda, citizens may challenge any law voted by federal parliament and through federal popular initiative introduce amendments to the federal constitution"
"Any citizen may challenge a law that has been passed by parliament. If that person is able to gather 50,000 signatures against the law within 100 days, a national vote has to be scheduled where voters decide by a simple majority of the voters whether to accept or reject the law. [1]"
End of verbatim above
Now there appears to be a whole layer of additional protection - legislation in Switzerland which allows there citizens to make sure there Govt is working in there interest. Something we in Australia can only dream of. Consider this, in 2005 - 80% of Australians were opposed to the full privatisation of Telstra, so what did the Howard Govt go & do - This is not good democracy !
The current system protects the political parties so they can manipulate - Good on NSW for creating a ICAC, yes Eddie Obeid is still free, but at least it has put a spotlight on shitty political behaviour.
How ugly the party machine is ! You play the game or you loose pre-selection. Take your pick sunshine, tow the line or, what a shit system ! Remember these are political parties not corporate companies. No wonder 'Gen Y' are turned off, I would be. The system is all about protecting the underlying sickness in our political parties. Time for a new mousetrap, time for like minded people who can create constitutional change which primarily looks after us the citizens 1st & foremost.
Roll on 2015 !
Sounds good to me johnno because I'm tired of blaming the shortcomings of australuan polirics on labor being useless and Abbott being a wanker. Clearly our system is broken because as you point out neither side seem to be representing the interests of the majority, which is supposed to be the point of a democracy. They are both caught up in an ideological battle with die hard supporters from both sides blaming the other side for being motivated by ideology, kind of what you'd expect I guess, though it didnt seem so profound before. It's hard to understand how the left can move to the right yet the ideologies are more polarized than ever. Unfortunatly the sane people in the middle have nowhere to turn hence the popularity of buffoons like palmer.
It does sound lkie an expensive cumbersome system you are proposing though, but it can't be any more expensive than introducing shitloads of ideologically influenced useless policy to have it repealed by the newly voted in ideology.
We need to change something because we currently we have a rolls royce pricetag system delivering morris minor outcomes. And the only people from the public with a good word to say are those affiliated with a party.
If we really are to compete with asia we cannot go on like this, either way australians are in for a rude shock and a huge adjustment to lifestyles in the not too distant future.
Agree, the Swiss system would be cumbersome & expensive to implement but it would provide confidence & some form of self belief that the system is working properly. People must have confidence whether it be in business, personal relationships or politics, otherwise things falls apart quickly. I have a uncle who has lived in Switzerland for the past 30 yrs & he loves the political system. They have a federal elections every 5yrs which are voluntary to vote in, but more importantly they have regular plebiscite's relevant to there canton (your local electorate) in which you live in. Consider 1 federal election every 5 yrs versus our 3 tier political system every 3 yrs ! Switzerland is a postage stamp country when compared to Australia with a 10 million pop. Could it work in Australia I reckon so, because it has proven to be a very politically stable, something we in Australia could only dream of. The sacking of Kevin in 2010 could never happen in Switzerland. Australia needs better Govt NOT more Govt.
@Johno, you make some valid points and if we could unscramble the egg perhaps it would fit here.
Some thoughts ....
The conservative side of politics here and elsewhere LOVE the idea of voluntary voting cos those with the most to lose vote and those with little to lose (the poorest in society and the disenfranchised) rarely vote or become enrolled to vote.
In my opinion there are three major things wrong with politics in this country.
The first is the role of unelected lobbyist play in forming policy. In impacts on all sides of politics. The IPA, Minerals Council, The Sydney Institute etc are some of the best resourced lobby groups going around and they push and prod politicians on a daily basis to best suit their members. E.g. what's happening in the Barrier Reef and the mining tax and carbon pricing debates. Solution: (1.) Force lobbyist to declare their source of funding (2.) Force political parties to declare all donations real time with disclosure laws so that 3rd party corporations like the ones recently used by the Liberal Party to get around political donation laws in NSW would be exposed and (3.) Establish a federal ICAC so corrupt politicians will be exposed.
The second problem here is that Australians are generally stupid but particularly so when it comes to politics. The fact that Abbott lied so much before the election to what he is trying to introduce now is mind-blowing. There should be riots on the streets but no most Australians are asleep to this or just don't care. All this debate about "cost of living" about how the carbon tax which added only a few dollars a week to household budgets (offset by extra tax concessions) was ruining the country and Australians just sucked it all in. Meanwhile discretionary expenditure on cigarettes, alcohol and gambling are at record levels ... fair dinkum I can't afford the carbon tax but I can afford to smoke, piss-up and gamble my and my family's life away. Australians get the politicians they deserve.
And third problem (linked to the 2nd) is the concentration of the media and particularly the daily lies spewed out by the ultra conservative Murdoch press and radio stations like 2GB. Time and time again its shown that much of the content of these publications and radio shows is just wrong but it continues to shape a brain dead (see 2 above) public. If Australians were well educated and engaged in politics what currently passes as the independent news just would be ridiculed out of business.
Fix those 3 problems and democracy here would be in a fair better position.
Of course none of it will happen so we will continue to be dumb down. Pass me another beer mate ...
I'd add two additional things.
Ban politicians but particularly ex Ministers working in areas of their policy portfolio for a period of 5 years after leaving politics. Remember the then former defence minister (Peter Reith) leaving politics and being employed by a company selling the government ships or missiles that as a government minister he was responsible for.
I would also ban lobbyist from being employed in political parties or staff for politicians ... gee the conflict of interest is right there on your face but it didn't stop the current assistant minister for health Fiona Nash from employing a paid lobbyist for the confectionary industry!!!! WTF
the appeal of voluntary voting is that its not all about a few marginal seats every election, state level particularly the poorest regions (northern suburbs in sa etc) get nothing from either side as their vote is locked up.
and floyd you think the problem with the rest of australians is they are stupid? im guessing that applies to anyone who disagrees with you? well mate, i think you are a fool (and i am a really smart guy...)
Geez steady on there Floyd, calling Australians stupid, well stupid about politics, some are, some are just stupid all together, but most are reasonably well educated about politics, and reasonably active in debate about politics. They are pretty ignorant and incredibly apathetic about politics, but not stupid, and the constant calls of stupid from you and your side tends to isolate people in debate rather than win them over. Which is exactly what happened when Labor lost the climate change debate.
I agree with everything you have written Floyd, I'm all for your new system, but as you say, its not bloody likely to happen. So if we are going to wishing land I will take Johnno's system anyday. I particularity like the ongoing say the public have in the government, yeh lots of referendums would be tedious and cumbersome, but much more doable with technology. I really like how any decision can be challenge with enough signatures, that would fuck Abbotts style of politics off all together.
While I agree with all you say Floyd, you tend to overlook things. Yep the lobby groups are out of control, with way too much influence, but you overlook that Labor has its lobby groups too. yep they are not as powerful as Liberal's side but groups like Get UP, aside from being incredibly annoying, have huge numbers of supporters, yes not as much money, but probably have more numbers. There are many other lefty lobby groups to counterbalance the right's. That is how are system has developed, not ideal but not much different to other western democracies yet countries like the Us don't seem to be having political system failure.
Its the same with the media, Labor people are constantly on about the Murdoch press etc. While you might think Australians are stupid, most are well aware of the right wing bias of commercial media outlets. For most people it sucks, but its not that big a deal like Labor people carry on. Most people accept that there is a certain inevitability to it. Most aren't overly concerned because the left has its media outlets too. Again, like lobby groups, not as powerful, but definitely as biased. the ABC springs to mind, I love the ABC by the way.
As to the carbon Tax, well sorry but Labor fucked that up too. Not stupid Australians. Labor fucked that up by not realising its power base. working people in jobs like manufacturing who love their cars. Labor isolated these people by reducing Climate Change to an either/or debate, your with us or your a denier. Then when Labor politicians were asked questions about the intricacies of the debate they had poor answers, because they knew little beyond the party lines, so they were not convincing. So they isolated their former followers, bogan revheads essentially. They should have played it cooler, instead of going from nothing to overkill. But that is what Labor do they always come in with these grandiose ideas to 'restore the balance' or whatever. They are all Gough wannbees, they cannot just do what is necessary constrained to economic conditions. Gough did some great and necessary things but seemed to get caught up in the moment and took it too far.
I'm not original when I say Labor need to do some soul searching, they need to find a uniting cause that appeals to their traditional voters. They need a big uniting personal goal to find a new relevant identity, rather than big policy goals lie education revolution (no revolution at all, just continuation of with Howard's plan), NBN (kind of necessary but totally overdone considering economic changes), NDIS (same as NBN).
Yeh 2GB listeners suck, but your not going to change what they think so stop wasting energy on them. Unionist diehards kinda suck too, and again your not going to change who they vote for. They need to listen to people who are not in the union, who might (should) vote Labor. But they lost these people through the Carbon Tax debate and through Howard winning over his 'battlers".
It seemed Kev take two, would bring some changes, and he did, but they only listened to members/unionists. I live in a former manufacturing suburb, where 'workers housing has become welfare housing'. Labors heartland you might say, and many friends have made it to the middle class suburbs, yet they would never vote Liberal. They probably will never join a union or the Labor party. Has new Labor asked any of them whats important? not one. Stop preaching to the converted.
A- The majority of people are stupid in general... It's not an "Aussie" thing.... The USA voted in GWB.... The whole world danced to gangnam stlye and who let the dogs out.... Japan built nuclear reactors on a fault line... The list goes on.... the majority of people are stupid...
B - But it should be compulsory for all people, stupid and otherwise, to vote... It should be computerised, and not done with a pencil... You shouldn't need to "enrol"... Once you have a tax file number, it should be automatic.... If you don't like anyone, then donkey vote... the larger the donkey vote, the more the two party's will have to look at their actions....
People are fighting (and dying) for the right to vote.... Some in our reality are fighting for the right not to vote.... Work that out....
I don't have a side mate, I just want politicians on both sides to do what they say and to truly represent us voters and not hidden vested interest groups. When it boils down to it traditionally there has been little difference between the major parties bar this lot of ultra conservatives which started its march under Howard.
But what does it take to get the general brain dead masses to get outraged?
The mass demonstrations currently occurring in France comes from a pride of country and its institutions. I tend not to like mindless expressions of nationalism (e.g. dimwits wearing Australian flags on Australia day) because it can lead to unwanted consequences (Cronulla race riots by Australian flag wearing thugs) but I have long said we need some French nationalism here. Remember Paris being overrun by farmers on their tractors because the government wanted to introduce some adverse policy? They just don't put up with shit like what goes down here seemingly on a weekly basis.
Here, the government wants to fundamentally change education, health, the way we view age and war pensioners, dole payments to young people etc etc and what do we get in the way of protest? Bugger all.
If that isn't stupid tell what it is then.
Really no side? come on Floyd, you can pick one.
I''m left man, I''m all over the shop but at the end of the day I admit I'm left, and I dont really understand why people try and hide such things.
Totally agree why aren't Australians outraged? but the answer is, its not that bad yet, hence the apathy.
Pretty sure the french started all this lefty, revolution, the people are taking back the land, tear down the king stuff, so to be expected I guess that they would be active compared to the apathetic obese nation where life is still to good to care.
I just wish there was some sort of system that penalised governments for breaking promises and basically lying through there arse.
As we know they say anything to get in then often do the opposite of what they say.
There should be a system that penalised them for instance, for every broken promise they lose 5% of there votes next election.
That would keep them honest and discourage them from making promises they can't keep.
If its the opposition who stops there main promises getting through in the senate (or whatever its called) then those voting against it should be penalised say deduct %1 to %2 of there vote in the next election.
This would allow parties who get in based on there main policies to actually be able o full fill there promises.
Exactly right Sypkan. The French have got revolution and civil dissent ingrained in their culture. Political discorse too; the terms left wing and right wing refer to the French National Assembly splitting during the French Revolution.
We've nothing like that in Australia. We're descendants of convict stock sent to a vast, resource rich land populated by an easily vanquished race. We inherited the Westminster System, seperation of powers, and rule of law. We're isolated enough to avoid the threat of invasion and the destabilising effects of large-scale immigration, and politically insignificant so war has always been a distant event. Almost every tragedy modern Australia has experienced has been natural - bushfire, cyclone, flood - not civil in origin.
We've got it good. The risk is not appreciating how good we've got it.
We've got it good. The risk is not appreciating how good we've got it.
so true
sypkan wrote:Really no side? come on Floyd, you can pick one.
I''m left man, I''m all over the shop but at the end of the day I admit I'm left, and I dont really understand why people try and hide such things.
Totally agree why aren't Australians outraged? but the answer is, its not that bad yet, hence the apathy.
Pretty sure the french started all this lefty, revolution, the people are taking back the land, tear down the king stuff, so to be expected I guess that they would be active compared to the apathetic obese nation where life is still to good to care.
My personal politics is left on most issues especially on the environment and social justice BUT I accept sometimes the Libs are in and sometimes its the ALP cos mostly in the past both parties have operated in a band of reasonableness (plus or minus). Some might call that the political middle ground. I might have disagreed with what the Libs did in the past on some issues but that is democracy. Where I have a massive problem with Abbott and much of what Howard did also is the current crop of Liberals are not traditional Liberal at all they are ultra conservative in their thinking and policy settings.
Interesting, what happened in Victoria last election where voters rejected this push to the right by the Liberals and Mike Baird in NSW seems to be a more traditional "small l" Liberal with policy announcements like the refund on drink containers ... I think its what most Australians want = politics in the middle ground.
I agree with your and Stu's comments on France .... we just need some of that fire in the guts.
loungelizard wrote:the appeal of voluntary voting is that its not all about a few marginal seats every election, state level particularly the poorest regions (northern suburbs in sa etc) get nothing from either side as their vote is locked up.
and floyd you think the problem with the rest of australians is they are stupid? im guessing that applies to anyone who disagrees with you? well mate, i think you are a fool (and i am a really smart guy...)
Ouch
sypkan wrote:We've got it good. The risk is not appreciating how good we've got it.
so true
I have seen that one wheeled out on so many occasions over the past 40 years, SK... In 20 years, it'll still be wheeled out to stop the discontent... Problem is, it's like a death by a thousand cuts... No one notices... In 2035, we'll all be working till 80, on minimum wage, with no rights, no freedom of speech, house ownership will be a long lost dream for most young Australians (oh hang on, that's already happened), and someone will wheel out the "We've got it good. The risk is not appreciating how good we've got it" line......
Sorry, Stu.... It's a debate killing comment designed to make you feel thankful, whilst successive governments lower our living standards and developing nations raise theirs....
The convict mentality still runs deep.... We're still a very young nation... France isn't... The "keep your head down and you wont get put in chains" psyche will still take another 100 years and some national upheaval/ tragedy/war to be fully dispersed....
When Australia's tall poppy syndrome (which I can be guilty of) starts to wane, we'll be on our way....
Think you've got the wrong end of the stick there Dawg. I offered it as an explanation not a justification. Like Floyd, I'd prefer Australians got a bit of Gallic fire in their belly.
Your explanation was very well written though Stu.
Succinct, lucid, balanced and to the point. I think some of our pollies could take a leaf out of your book.
Cheers Zen. Maybe I'll make a run for Canberra.
stunet wrote:Think you've got the wrong end of the stick there Dawg. I offered it as an explanation not a justification. Like Floyd, I'd prefer Australians got a bit of Gallic fire in their belly.
Oh don't get me wrong, Stu, So do I..... But it aint gonna happen for a long long time.... Look at Frances history.... Jesus, mate....... Pretty full on.... Hitler, Napoleon,the guillotine.... You can't just manufacture "gallic fire"..... be good if you could....
On a separate note, these "I am charley" wannabe's that were calling for charley to be banned only a few years ago, should realise that a lot of people who have been following this for ages consider them to be "hypocrite mayor quimbys" of the highest order..... "Ahhh I too am charley"..........Some of the world leaders who marched yesterday were the same world leaders calling for Charley to be fined and censored during the muhammad cartoon fiasco.... they aint charley at all.... Long live free speech....
Sheepdog wrote:On a separate note, these "I am charley" wannabe's that were calling for charley to be banned only a few years ago, should realise that a lot of people who have been following this for ages consider them to be "hypocrite mayor quimbys" of the highest order..... "Ahhh I too am charley"..........Some of the world leaders who marched yesterday were the same world leaders calling for Charley to be fined and censored during the muhammad cartoon fiasco.... they aint charley at all.... Long live free speech....
Not unlike Glen Le Lievre whose cartoon accompanied Mike Carlton's last column for Fairfax. And that was here in Oz just a few months ago. What I thought was poignant commentary, others, especially the Jewish council, thought was racial incitement.
yeah I remember that...... I remember sedition laws too.... Scary times....
Interesting read, stu - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2905065/We-vomit-people-suddenly...
Abbott's impact on investment in renewable energy .... 88% fall in 12 months. Mission Accomplished.
http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/australias-largescal...
SA is the state which has previously produced the highest per capita head of renewable energy in Aust. We are lucky in Oz we have an abundance of sunshine, wind, geo-thermal, desert & open space to generate electricity, the stuff needed to make life bearable in summer etc What a excellent renewable landscape we have. SA produces 10% of there states electricity via rooftops.
But this article (attached) & other similar radio interviews have supported the same argument, which is bad news for a state like SA which is industry dependant on renewable energy & defence contracts.
The renewable energy players when interviewed on radio regarding current investment uncertainty / stagnation have all argued the current review of RET as the cause. Investors say on radio they are sittings on $billions till they can be certain of the current / future energy policy....$ picture. Ian MacFarlane is the previous Howard Industry minister & is a dickhead, get rid of him Tones now ! There is a telling '4 Corners' report from 2007 when he scoffed at the value of the renewable industry saying it could NOT be done on a macro level & at the same time a group of Australian entrepreneurs financing renewables were quickly heading to California to display there wares (not by choice but because they needed $ investment certainty). This was back in the days of Arnold Schwarzenegger, who governed Californication county which welcomed these smart Australians. MacFarlane scoffed at the concept of renewables back in 2007 it appears not much has changed. Would love to see a updated '4 Corners' on that subject. Cheers Johno
PS - What does the comment below in the attached link really mean (really)
"Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane sought to play down the impact of uncertainty, telling The Australian Financial Review that "the real reason wind farms aren't proceeding is they can't get an off-take agreement", the paper reported on Monday"
Are you sure your not a Labor party member Floyd?
Because whenever there is negativity towards Labor on here, you seem to, ignore it, change the conversation then post a negative link about Liberal. Which all sounds like Internet MO for Labor members, no doubt covered in the members handbook somewhere, along with deny any affiliations. I hate to be so accusational but you certainly don't seem to be a middle ground fence sitter. And your posts are incredibly well informed. Probably employed in a related field, or your just a smart reader type dude.
YS doesnt deny any affiliations, much respect for that, but he does like to point out polls showing Abbott could be voted out if there was an election. Maybe so...if there was one right now. Personally I think labor is such a shambles they wouldn't win even if the election was tomorrow. Partly because of 6 years of shambledom but mainly because they have lost 'howards battlers' and the bogan revheads through labelling them as stupid, belittlement such as that is not forgotton in one term. As to howards battlers, well they are a phenomen I don't understand, so in my ignorance, I will resort to calling them a bit stupid. But what I do understand about them is somehow they also feel burnt by Labor despite the Liberals offering them nothing. Labor will never win them back whilst being so high and mighty about having the moral high ground on many issues. Like the bogan revheads there a little feral to have at your chardonay socialist shindigs but you have to look after your supporters, a bit like port power really.
I don't like what these groups want, and I dont like bagging labor but they seem just as detached from the real people and what's going on than Abbott and co. The one party member I do know tells me they're told to ignore the negativity and focus on their achievements. Well sorry bill but, there just aren't that many, and the ones you had were so whimsical they are being overturned. Schooled up by blindboy I'd like to think positive but sometimes you just have to deal with shit before you can be positive, and Labor needs to deal with a lot.
From the sheepdog
It's a debate killing comment designed to make you feel thankful, whilst successive governments lower our living standbards and developing nations raise theirs....
Totally true as well, but this process is so far underway I just accept it as a given. This is where Labor possibly could differentiate themselves with policy, its a no brainer in my book. Maybe Labor initiated the process, I don't know. But globalisation and the new new world order are topics neither side want to touch.
" But globalisation and the new new world order are topics neither side want to touch."
Yep not publicly, anyway....
Both party's are so out of touch it's frightening.... I'm on the verge of re entering the fray.. I think more of us should join in... I think more of us should contact our local representatives and give them both barrels.... No, I don't mean an act of terror...... ;)
Yep there is a wider audience than Swellnet & your local party controlled pollie (sorry no pun intended) & it comes back on Feb 2nd, Q&A with Tony Jones, make a submission. Have your 8c worth or whatever the current day rate is
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/contact-us.htm
Do it sheepdog enter the fray,
Seriously so many people say it that should do it...then don't.
That Jaquie Lambe chick has shown it can be done. And if a not particularly appealing tasweigan person like her can get elected, a somewhat weatherred yet still cute tasweigan sheepdog has a chance.
Stunets little cartoon is another issue both sides won't touch. If you want to stop terrorism, well you need to stop terrorism first.
Johno210 wrote:Yep there is a wider audience than Swellnet & your local party controlled pollie (sorry no pun intended) & it comes back on Feb 2nd, Q&A with Tony Jones, make a submission. Have your 8c worth or whatever the current day rate is
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/contact-us.htm
Thanks Johno, put my 2 bobs worth in. Something about including FACT CHECK in the program in an attempt to keep the lying politicians honest.
If you want a 'good' democracy (what ever that means) then yes, you have got to enter the 'fray'. Don't just contact your local pollie - get involved. We are seeing a 'stale' Labor party, we are seeing a failing Lib party. Time to refresh. We have been fortunate with our 'sense of right' in the past but thats being taken over by greed.
Democracy...hmmm....can anyone explain where lobby groups fit in a Democracy??
there is no real democracy, but we entertain the idea and the perception of a form of government that is voted on by the people for the people......and then....lobby groups!
Cheers Floyd,
Have also made 2 submissions to Q&A today will see what comes of it
sypkan wrote:Do it sheepdog enter the fray,
Seriously so many people say it that should do it...then don't.
That Jaquie Lambe chick has shown it can be done. And if a not particularly appealing tasweigan person like her can get elected, a somewhat weatherred yet still cute tasweigan sheepdog has a chance.Stunets little cartoon is another issue both sides won't touch. If you want to stop terrorism, well you need to stop terrorism first.
lol. SK..... I don't mean "run for parliament"... they'd eat me up and spit me out.... I mean get involved on a grass roots level.... I think it's the only way to make the major party's listen... They are too focused on "polls"...... For example, if there was a groundswell of interest at the next lot of "divisional meetings", a party would take note..... And be quite heretical at that meeting... Shockingly heretical.... And don't hold back... On the point that really grate........Cheers, SK
Brutus, I just noted your post.... Mate, go to the next LNP or Labor meeting in your area, and say what you just said.... Stand up and say you are sick of lobby groups.... Stand up and say YOU are not being represented... That's exactly what I'm talking about...... You'll probably get a round of applause...
Sheepdog wrote:Brutus, I just noted your post.... Mate, go to the next LNP or Labor meeting in your area, and say what you just said.... Stand up and say you are sick of lobby groups.... Stand up and say YOU are not being represented... That's exactly what I'm talking about...... You'll probably get a round of applause...
@Brutus & Sheepy ..... if you and anyone else want a fuller understanding of how all powerful lobby groups are in "our" democracy and how powerless we mere voters are have a read of Supercapitalism: The Transformation of Business, Democracy and Everyday Life by Robert B Reich.
Highly recommend it and I defy you not to be angry reading it. And our Tones was recently guess of honour on the occasion of the IPA's 70th anniversary singing its praises like the sycophant he is to their conservative mantra.
yeah sheepy..sounds good to let em know....but Lobby groups are so ingrained into our system of Govt ......a round of applause just wouldn't do it for me......but how would you get rid of lobby groups?
brutus wrote:yeah sheepy..sounds good to let em know....but Lobby groups are so ingrained into our system of Govt ......a round of applause just wouldn't do it for me......but how would you get rid of lobby groups?
Spent some time yesterday on this Brutus but the answer is real time full disclosure laws for lobbyists and politicians on: who funds them; who they fund; who they meet; full money trail disclosures AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A NSW-LIKE ICACs FOR ALL STATES AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS.
brutus wrote:yeah sheepy..sounds good to let em know....but Lobby groups are so ingrained into our system of Govt ......a round of applause just wouldn't do it for me......but how would you get rid of lobby groups?
You'll never get rid of 'em, mate.... It's democracy.... But you can influence them.... I'd rather get rid of voter apathy.....
A "lobby group" is nothing more than a bunch of people pushing an agenda.... Due to public apathy, these groups often get away with stuff the majority don't want... Eg, a pro fracking lobby group will go to all the meetings whilst we watch cricket.... They then vote and install a pro fracking puppet to run for the seat... The puppet will not bring up his pro fracking pov before the election ( part of the lobby group tactic), instead waffles on about "making streets safe for kids", or "coming down hard on drugs", or "making borders safe", or "getting bludgers to work for the dole".... Joe and Jane Suburbanite vote for the puppet.... The puppet is voted in, and the minority lobby group is drinking aged scotch....2 years later, fracking commences to the disgust of Joe and Jane....
Now, If dawg and brutus and Floyd and Yorko were at those early meetings, demanding a written statement from the puppet on where he stands re' future fracking, puppet boy would've shat himself, the "lobby group" would've had their jaws on the ground, and the division's monthly meeting would've had one hell of a night on it's hands lol...
Only way to beat the lobby group fuckers is at their own game.
The politicians are for sale. Use social media to advocate the "influencing" of key pollies in certain directions as an investment in the country and the community , then utilise crowdfunding to reach the required financial target that will make the politician yours to command.
Even if the lobby groups have deeper pockets, the revelation that political influence is commonly available to the highest bidder will at least expose the putrid practise to greater public scrutiny.
Blowin wrote:then utilise crowdfunding to reach the required financial target that will make the politician yours to command.
Kickstarter..?
No-one got anything to say about the loss of the car industry under a government and high viz Tony that promised to create 1,000,000 jobs?
Slumber away ........