The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
Patrick wrote:In Australia, in the USA, in the UK, you can follow and practice any religion, there are no laws against any one cultural group, religious group or ethnic group. You can openly denounce the prime ministers, president and members of parliament, you can create art and music criticising them and taking the piss. Same to the police and military. You can vote and you can start a political party or run as an independent.
In a lot of countries, such as Russia and China, you can't do any of that, or in Gaza.
You can promote communism and socialism and form communes and start worker run enterprises, businesses and factories here... but can you enjoy democratic freedoms in China and Russia? In Gaza? Can you criticise the government? Form your own political party? Start your own newspaper or media account? Create art that you like? Marry who you like? You can here.
As a young punk / anarchist, hanging out in squats, blocking streets, protesting, vandalising, blaming the west for everything, I didn't see how good it is here. I looked for oppression so I could yell 'see, the west is fucked'.
Then I grew up.
I became thankful.
I took responsibility for my actions.
I understood that utopia doesn't exist.
I realised I can't help everyone and that some don't want help (even when they complain).Life is more enjoyable now :)
This won't change anything in the middle east but it helps me have a clearer understanding and more peaceful countenance when approaching these issues.
There's a reason why people want to move here and the USA and UK. There's not so many people that want to move to Russia or China or Gaza.
Appreciate what you have. Others risk their lives to move to the west.
In the current climate, yours is a “once upon a time” story. The west is becoming the authoritarian hemisphere. Our civil rights have been slowly chipped away at and they are finally passing laws on information and how we can share it. This is all 5 eyes nations. We now lock up protesters, confiscate devices before offences are committed, have so much propaganda fed to use that the truth is hard to find. We’ve been locked down and strongly coerced into dubious vaccines. In Canada they’ve passed laws to lock bank accounts without court order for supporting dissent. We’ve had our state anti terror police run security for multinational CEO’, our taxes going to non stop wars. Add to that the cost of living, a diminished environment, sky rocketing house prices and the increase in disease. Tell me, apart from the illusion of freedom because you can go places and maybe buy stuff. Where is the west heading?
How cools this
Jelly Flater wrote:…the UN security council deems israeli settlements in the occupied territories as illegal...
This relates only to some settlements after 1967.
But again, this has been propagandised, peddled and sold to braindead zombies as the UN supposedly ruling as illegal all of Israel.
It’s also quite illegal to engage in terrorist attacks and slaughter people.
It is Hamas, Iran etc who seek to destroy the two state solution proposed by the West. They always have and will not stop.
gsco wrote:Jelly Flater wrote:…the UN security council deems israeli settlements in the occupied territories as illegal...
This relates only to some settlements after 1967.
But again, this has been propagandised, peddled and sold to braindead zombies as the UN supposedly ruling as illegal all of Israel.
It’s also quite illegal to engage in terrorist attacks and slaughter people.
It is Hamas, Iran etc who seek to destroy the two state solution proposed by the West. They always have and will not stop.
Are you in a room with a lot of other people on the internet. Like some sort of propaganda typing pool?
Oh…
“ The resolution states that all measures aimed at changing the demographic composition and status of Palestinian territories occupied by Israel, including construction and expansion of settlements, transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of land, demolition of homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians are in violation of international humanitarian law, Israel's obligation as the occupying Power according to the Fourth Geneva Convention, and previous resolutions.[2]
The resolution also condemns all acts of violence against civilians, including terrorism, provocation and destruction.[2] According to the New York Times, this is "aimed at Palestinian leaders, whom Israel accuses of encouraging attacks on Israeli civilians".[23] It reiterates support for the two-state solution and noted that settlement activities are "imperilling" its viability.[2]”
So… yeah…
- no reason yet on why, for example, israeli has the right to ignore the ruling, with whatever details included, and why the focus goes back to the illegality of terrorist attacks.
The ‘slaughtering’ is a mutual activity on both sides.
- both are disobeying international law and both determine each others acts as the justification to continue doing so…
Yet there is no equal international condemnation ;)
- just an imagined shared premise from which to lay blame and take sides.
Both activities from either ‘team’ obviously add to the disintegration of the possibilities for a two state solution.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cyp7vNHxyof/[/quoteThis is pretty funny. What would possess an association like this to think a statement like this is warranted.
soggydog wrote:Patrick wrote:In Australia, in the USA, in the UK, you can follow and practice any religion, there are no laws against any one cultural group, religious group or ethnic group. You can openly denounce the prime ministers, president and members of parliament, you can create art and music criticising them and taking the piss. Same to the police and military. You can vote and you can start a political party or run as an independent.
In a lot of countries, such as Russia and China, you can't do any of that, or in Gaza.
You can promote communism and socialism and form communes and start worker run enterprises, businesses and factories here... but can you enjoy democratic freedoms in China and Russia? In Gaza? Can you criticise the government? Form your own political party? Start your own newspaper or media account? Create art that you like? Marry who you like? You can here.
As a young punk / anarchist, hanging out in squats, blocking streets, protesting, vandalising, blaming the west for everything, I didn't see how good it is here. I looked for oppression so I could yell 'see, the west is fucked'.
Then I grew up.
I became thankful.
I took responsibility for my actions.
I understood that utopia doesn't exist.
I realised I can't help everyone and that some don't want help (even when they complain).Life is more enjoyable now :)
This won't change anything in the middle east but it helps me have a clearer understanding and more peaceful countenance when approaching these issues.
There's a reason why people want to move here and the USA and UK. There's not so many people that want to move to Russia or China or Gaza.
Appreciate what you have. Others risk their lives to move to the west.
In the current climate, yours is a “once upon a time” story. The west is becoming the authoritarian hemisphere. Our civil rights have been slowly chipped away at and they are finally passing laws on information and how we can share it. This is all 5 eyes nations. We now lock up protesters, confiscate devices before offences are committed, have so much propaganda fed to use that the truth is hard to find. We’ve been locked down and strongly coerced into dubious vaccines. In Canada they’ve passed laws to lock bank accounts without court order for supporting dissent. We’ve had our state anti terror police run security for multinational CEO’, our taxes going to non stop wars. Add to that the cost of living, a diminished environment, sky rocketing house prices and the increase in disease. Tell me, apart from the illusion of freedom because you can go places and maybe buy stuff. Where is the west heading?
Noted.
"Appreciate what you have." Part of my point was if you don't appreciate what you have you can lose it.
The gist is, in the context of west vs east (I'm using those general labels for convenuence), why destroy what we have just because it's not perfect?
Where is the west heading? I don't know but we have more freedom to decide the direction using peacefull means than a lot of other countries. I think gsco and others were pointing out something similar to yourself. If we let ideological thinking, (wokeism as it were and viewing the world and people as easily divisible into oppressed or oppressor), influence our choices then we'll give away our freedoms to a central bureaucracy.
udo wrote:
Wow interesting.
Geez the comments on this post makes swellnet look like a teddybears picnic.
I wonder what went down for such a strong statement to come out.
Sounds like there's more than meets the eye.
‘ The west is becoming the authoritarian hemisphere. Our civil rights have been slowly chipped away at and they are finally passing laws on information and how we can share it. This is all 5 eyes nations. We now lock up protesters, confiscate devices before offences are committed, have so much propaganda fed to use that the truth is hard to find. We’ve been locked down and strongly coerced into dubious vaccines. In Canada they’ve passed laws to lock bank accounts without court order for supporting dissent. We’ve had our state anti terror police run security for multinational CEO’, our taxes going to non stop wars. Add to that the cost of living, a diminished environment, sky rocketing house prices and the increase in disease. Tell me, apart from the illusion of freedom because you can go places and maybe buy stuff. Where is the west heading?’
- ^^all valid points there @soggydog
& @philosurphizing… curious nobody can notice that huge elephant in the room - it’s farkn pretty big ;)
- must be difficult to see and hear with ya heads up your own arses… egos being fed by western patriotic propaganda consist of nothing but believing their own lies as a means to counter the other team’s lies. This method won’t create results nor resolutions ;)
The idea ppl can understand that war is a racket and pretend nothing can be done about it shows they can accept and agree with deceit.
- all war is deception ;)
“Meanwhile the trunk of a large animal can be seen at the doorway.
Starts at 27 minute mark.”
southernraw wrote:udo wrote:Wow interesting.
Geez the comments on this post makes swellnet look like a teddybears picnic.
I wonder what went down for such a strong statement to come out.
Sounds like there's more than meets the eye.
Israeli surfers (not all Israeli surfers), have been terrorising Maldivian lineups for years.
It’s a been a long buildup
lostdoggy wrote:southernraw wrote:udo wrote:Wow interesting.
Geez the comments on this post makes swellnet look like a teddybears picnic.
I wonder what went down for such a strong statement to come out.
Sounds like there's more than meets the eye.Israeli surfers (not all Israeli surfers), have been terrorising Maldivian lineups for years.
It’s a been a long buildup
I was in Sri Lanka in November 2012, not surf trip but holiday with wife, in Arugum Bay earlier that year was told massive fight between Israeli surfers and locals, big enough that military had to come in a break it up. Told to me by English lady who owned place we were staying, off season there so quiet
Anyway have met pricks in water from many countries including Australians, seppos, Brazos etc.
Probably etiquette thing boiling over.
Met some cool Israeli's in my travels, but they are a tough breed, heavy place to grow up and they tend to travel in packs.
Go jelly.
War is a racket. Some ones winning and they’re far from the frontlines with a completely unrelated ideology.
philosurphizingkerching wrote:Meanwhile the trunk of a large animal can be seen at the doorway.
Starts at 27 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_IAH7PnS_E
I watched a lot of that, its now an 11 days old video, I havent dived into it but come across bits and pieces id expect a lot of its already outdated.
Video below at 7:26 describes some insight
I saw another video or maybe it was podcast i think from similar guy in Isreali military elsewhere where they said apparently drones took out some censors.
Seems Israel just got complacent and out smarted.
&t=2870s Yeah wow, that's heavy about the fight there @andymac.
A friend of mine also just returned from there and commented on the sheer number of Israelis on the beach and in the water there. I had no idea!
Agreed, having dealt with alot of Israelis on holidays over here, were definitely one of the more, erm, 'difficult' customers we had enter the premises.
But yeah definitely know how to let their hair down and live each day to the fullest, no doubt a product of their surroundings. Can be alot of fun to be around...out of the water at least.
This is without question the most powerful monologue delivered on TV this week.
— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) October 21, 2023
And it’s from a left-wing comedian.
Just watch…
Wow 🔥pic.twitter.com/a6D5HnMBem
intersectionality meets reality
Today in London. Someone decided to take the Pride Flag to a Palestinian protest. Watch how they welcomed him. pic.twitter.com/ZaRMmeIofO
— Imam of Peace (@Imamofpeace) October 22, 2023
israeli surfers are in maldives and srilanka because indo doesn't let em in
not all anti-semitism is bad... :)
sypkan wrote:israeli surfers are in maldives and srilanka because indo doesn't let em in
not all anti-semitism is bad... :)
They do let them in ive hung out with Israeli surfers in Indo, they seemed fine in the water.
I dont think they are well liked in Indo in muslim areas though but i guess its no different to Maldives
lol. All anti-semitism is bad.
From my "other" world, did you know that Jewish people are central to all of mathematics and physics, and hence modern technology. Many of the greatest figures in mathematics to ever walk the planet are Jewish. The mathematics community reveres and basically worships many of them (as do I as mathematicians). Jewish people have won a very disproportionately large percent of the most prestigious prizes, awards and medals in mathematics:
When I scan through the list of Jewish mathematicians, I'm pretty taken aback at some of the names in there (many I didn't realise).
"In 1933, when the Nazis rose to power in Germany, one-third of all mathematics professors in the country were Jewish, while Jews constituted less than one percent of the population. Jewish mathematicians made major contributions throughout the 20th century and into the 21st, as is evidenced by their high representation among the winners of major mathematics awards: 27% for the Fields Medal, 30% for the Abel Prize, and 40% for the Wolf Prize."
Pride peacekeepers heading to Gaza?
There were the White Helmets in Syria. Maybe time for rainbow helmets to test out the reality of the fellowship of the oppressed
Over six thousand israeli bomb strikes have hit an area half the size of canberra in the latest offensive…
Love for you to do the mathematics on :
- the cost of ordinance supply
- the profit figures for the US
- and value of each human life lost
Big numbers that equal nothing ;)
indo-dreaming wrote:sypkan wrote:israeli surfers are in maldives and srilanka because indo doesn't let em in
not all anti-semitism is bad... :)
They do let them in ive hung out with Israeli surfers in Indo, they seemed fine in the water.
I dont think they are well liked in Indo in muslim areas though but i guess its no different to Maldives
Must have second passport. Don't think Indo allows Israeli nationals in. Unless this has changed?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/sports/2023/6/17/ban-...
… and don’t forget the muslim contributors.
- brothers in arms in a different domain ;)
indo-dreaming wrote:sypkan wrote:israeli surfers are in maldives and srilanka because indo doesn't let em in
not all anti-semitism is bad... :)
They do let them in ive hung out with Israeli surfers in Indo, they seemed fine in the water.
I dont think they are well liked in Indo in muslim areas though but i guess its no different to Maldives
Met an Israeli down at lakeys in 2004 , top bloke , travelling on his own .
This video puts a perspective on how many rockets Hamas launches fail and often end up landing back in gaza, quite a few just in the last few seconds.
andy-mac wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:sypkan wrote:israeli surfers are in maldives and srilanka because indo doesn't let em in
not all anti-semitism is bad... :)
They do let them in ive hung out with Israeli surfers in Indo, they seemed fine in the water.
I dont think they are well liked in Indo in muslim areas though but i guess its no different to Maldives
Must have second passport. Don't think Indo allows Israeli nationals in. Unless this has changed?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/sports/2023/6/17/ban-...
that's what i thought... second passport
this world cup in indo thing was / is an interesting situation...
were they gonna make special allowances for israeli team?
or, was it just classic indo... and hadn't thought it through?
probably the latter
anyway, cancelled now, and probably for the better, with all the shit going down, would've been a riot... literally...
interestingly, old mate that got it cancelled, lost huge popularity for his political campaigns because he lost the world cup - indo's love soccer!
now he might be popular again...
Jelly, do you think those that support Israel’s right to retaliate against Hamas, are unconcerned about Palestinian civilian deaths? And support is given to accept any action Israel carries out irrespective of a high civilian death toll? Do you think Israel targets civilian woman and children deliberately?
The zionists who say death to all arabs are unconcerned.
- and that support is irrespective of a high civilian death toll.
And whether israel deliberately targets civilian women and children… well… israel deliberately targets civilian areas… so… israel can answer that for u ;)
Flate wrote & @philosurphizing… curious nobody can notice that huge elephant in the room - it’s farkn pretty big ;)
Elephant ! What elephant ?
Anyone care whether israel should cease illegal settlements in occupied territories ?
Or whether or not they should abide by international law and not use white phosphorus on urban populations ?
Anyone spotted any elephants ? ;);)
Jelly Flater wrote:The zionists who say death to all arabs are unconcerned.
- and that support is irrespective of a high civilian death toll.And whether israel deliberately targets civilian women and children… well… israel deliberately targets civilian areas… so… israel can answer that for u ;)
Yesterday you posted that no one answered your question, I did clearly and with no ambiguity.
Would be nice if you could do the same.
Jelly Flater wrote:Anyone care whether israel should cease illegal settlements in occupied territories ?
Or whether or not they should abide by international law and not use white phosphorus on urban populations ?
Anyone spotted any elephants ? ;);)
If you can’t answer a simple question, don’t ask others to do what you won’t
Haha
- whatever u reckon dill
You know where you can stick ya loaded questions ;);)
- and you know all you do here is attempt to stir the pot…
Try put up another massacre vid ay… clever fella ;)
Jelly Flater wrote:Haha
- whatever u reckon dillYou know where you can stick ya loaded questions ;);)
- and you know all you do here is attempt to stir the pot…Try put up another massacre vid ay… clever fella ;)
righto Jelly.
You really don't have much to offer is clear.
Oh dill boy ;)
So smug and seemingly ‘sure’ of your position...
You want to throw out stuff like saying ppl aren’t able to answer simple questions.
- not sure your particular stance has any credibility ;)
Look up ‘Shireen Abu Akleh’.
Find the cnn vid, there are many others too...
- read up on the investigation and the findings as well ;)
It is evidence that countered israel’s version of events.
- it proved wrong a particular narrative that attributed blame to the palestinians.
Also provided proof that the idf has and will intentionally target civilians (and women), kill them and also deny culpability and accountability by lying about it and inventing a completely false story.
It’s confronting, but you’ve showed us you’re into that ;)
- I won’t post it here coz I’m not a farkn insensitive idiot...
Now...
Ummm... the question about deliberately targeting civilians or women...
- and how about even both, at the same time.
It’s crystal clear what is on offer ;)
See any elephants ? ;);)
Oh dill boy ;)So smug and seemingly ‘sure’ of your position...
You want to throw out stuff like saying ppl aren’t able to answer simple questions.
- not sure your particular stance has any credibility ;)Look up ‘Shireen Abu Akleh’.
Find the cnn vid, there are many others too...
- read up on the investigation and the findings as well ;)It is evidence that countered israel’s version of events.
- it proved wrong a particular narrative that attributed blame to the palestinians.
Also provided proof that the idf has and will intentionally target civilians (and women), kill them and also deny culpability and accountability by lying about it and inventing a completely false story.It’s confronting, but you’ve showed us you’re into that ;)
- I won’t post it here coz I’m not a farkn insensitive idiot...Now...
Ummm... the question about deliberately targeting civilians or women...
- and how about even both, at the same time.It’s crystal clear what is on offer ;)
See any elephants ? ;);)[/quoteRighto Jelly.
It ridiculous to suggest Israel defence force intentionally target civilians, to do so is pointless and only works against them if evidence of doing so was exposed.
Do they target Hamas where they also know there are civilians 100% they do, they woudnt be able to take out any of Hamas targets if they didnt, we all know Hamas intentionally use civilians as Human shield's which greatly increases civilian deaths.
Over a week ago Israel told all civilians to move south to prevent civilian deaths when they come in by land, however Hamas told civilians to stay put blocked roads with check points etc
BTW. isolated incident's of Israel soldiers murdering Palestine civilians doesn't mean Israel defence forces target civilian's in exactly the same way if a rogue Aussie soldier murders a civilian in a war torn country it doesn't mean Australian defence forces target civilians,.
Isolated incidents of civilians being caught in cross fire also doesn't equal intentionally targeting civilians. (Casualties of war)
Intentionally targeting civilians is what Hamas did when they invaded and murdered people in their own homes from babies or people partying at a rave, or what Hamas do everyday of late firing rockets into civilian's areas with the aim to take out civilians.
A speech worth listening too. https://x.com/noplaceforsheep/status/1715974341853364387?s=46&t=5RczxwAf...
Nice work supa…
Wonder why some selectively dismiss things occurring recently like how the idf encouraged palestinian citizens to evacuate, gave info for a route for safe passage… then bombed a convoy of 70 civilian refugees… ummm… who were ummm… evacuating…
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67114281
- maybe inaccurate, maybe an accident… maybe an elephant ;)
And this :
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/least-6-people-killed-israeli-...(Reuters),on%20X%20social%20media%20platform.
There are a lot of instances, and too many too often.
But… it’s fog of war stuff…
- collateral ;)
When I read the rehashed brainwashed farkn tripe written by id saying it’s ‘ridiculous’ to suggest the idf are intentionally targeting civilians… (as though there is any true understanding of what is going on… ) the arrogance and simplistic hypocrisy on display contrasts so tellingly with the powerful speech supa posted above…
Because what is going on is the intentional targeting of civilians areas… ummm… populated with… ummm… civilians.
- I wonder how obedient and agreeable anyone here would be when ordered to leave their homes. Just pack up and fuck off ;)
Sure thing.
- keep an eye out for those elephants ;)
The saudis are nice
@Jelly brain
Are you for real?
Your BBC video that you think proves Israel is hitting convoys escaping just shows some cars in flames and you believe it is IDF because Hamas says so.?????
Honest trust worthy people that Hamas.
If that was an airstrike by IDF there would be no vehicle's left and there would be half the road missing.
Have Isarel taken out schools, highly likely because Hamas use places like schools especially tunnels underneath as protection knowing they are the last place IDF want to bomb, and the kids are not at school they should be south in the zone that is much safer (but might have some strategic targets still taken out).
They will take out all kinds of Hamas strategic targets and people will die, its a war thats what happens and its much much worse when your enemy uses civilians as human shield's.
And its a war Israel didn't start or didnt want but have had no choice but to finish.
You probably still think IDF attacked a hospital and 500 are dead because Hamas told you so.
Next week you are going to be telling us everyone is just taking Hamas wrong and they arent really that bad once you get to know them or some crazy shit.
Seriously people at what stage to we report this guy to some authority so he can put on some watch list???
Im literally seeing you falling for propaganda from a group that is being compared to ISIS and you say im brain washed.
BTW. In regard to Supas link Saudi islamic princes that have been accused of funding and doing deals with A-Qaeda's and even meting up with bin Laden aren't exactly people anybody should be listening too.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/02/september11.politics
bonza wrote:The saudis are nice
Yes I was surprised at who was giving the speech. Not the best human rights record .
Haha id …
-don’t spit ya butt plug out ;)
The expert guy on explosions and verified on the ground reports.
You were there right ;);)
What do white phosphorus burns look like ?
- and remember when the US (CIA) met with bin laden and funded him and ‘did deals’ like providing weapons and training… ;)
And that funding and training helped contribute to and facilitated the formation and rise of al qaeda …
But… US good(honest/trustworthy), other guys bad… ummm… derrrrrrrrrp…
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/pol/wtc/oblnus091401.html
Ooooops - "In all, the United States funneled more than $ 2 billion in guns and money to the mujaheddin during the 1980s, according to U.S. officials. It was the largest covert action program since World War II."
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3340101
Things often end up coming home to roost…
- wonder how it’ll play out for us one day ;)
Enjoy your hasbara.
- and careful, those elephants are becoming a stampede ;)
The West Bank. What a nightmare…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-13/before-the-war:/102973604?utm_sou...
The west needs to attack and wipe out the Iranian leadership.
Cut the head of the snake. Then the war can stop.
A few well placed missiles on their leadership would have the Iranian women dancing in the streets.
Who knows it might even revert back to the once great Persia.
Like this optimist?
This kid doesn’t deserve this, he hasn’t done anything to anyone.
Imagine if this was your child.
Both sides are as terrible as each other.
This is sickening.
online photo image
Oh flopti…
- the good old christian call for war ;)
Not a lot of ‘love thy neighbour’ goin on…
- but it’s just islamic jihadists u can’t reason with ;);)
… ‘Cut the head of the snake. Then the war can stop.’
Ummm… derrrrrp… yeah, ummm, let’s do some war and… ummm… it’ll stop the war. (Remember when jesus preached that, it’s one of my favourite sermons… ‘go forth and killeth, and yes, then peace shall reign’).
And, after all, there is plenty of experience and experimentation when it comes to ‘cutting the heads of snakes’… even givin them a lil suck ;);)
- metzitzah b’peh
And… ‘A few well placed missiles’… sounds similar to the doctrine for those christian brothers when they ran those institutions and went on their own little snake hunts…
Nothing quite like a ‘christian’ calling for war ;)
- not sadistic, psychotic or hypocritical at all…
What a way to start the day flopti. You are fucked in the head…
- one could say it’s almost satanic, according to jesus ;)
https://m.
https://m.
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