The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
Love thy neighbour- shall we not?
https://www.godhatesfags.com/
Optimist wrote:The west needs to attack and wipe out the Iranian leadership.
Cut the head of the snake. Then the war can stop.
A few well placed missiles on their leadership would have the Iranian women dancing in the streets.
Who knows it might even revert back to the once great Persia.
And the lawd said…
- ‘whack ye all the serpents which crawl on their bellies, and thy town shall be a beacon unto others’.
;)
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&pp=ygUXc2ltcHNvbnMgc25ha2Ugd2hhY2tpbmc%3D Everyone over there can make a legit claim to be a victim of oppression and they are all a bunch of incredulous assholes at this point. Israel is clearly an apartheid regime and the Palestinians clearly pulled some terrorist shit when they hit that music festival.
Israel's land grabs, illegal settlements, daily raids and bulldozing of houses are the biggest barrier to peace at this point and the main cause of military conflict.
Some good points, hard to argue that @JaJake…
But… it’s all good, we got christian conflict resolution theory wif flopti and, like planet heaven, it’s the real deal ;)
There is even footage of him expressing his problem solving ideology :
# make persia great again ;)
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And… one must be careful, certain sentiments will get you on the lowinfo watch list arrrrghhh…
- call z feds ! ;)
https://m.
JaJake wrote:Everyone over there can make a legit claim to be a victim of oppression and they are all a bunch of incredulous assholes at this point. Israel is clearly an apartheid regime and the Palestinians clearly pulled some terrorist shit when they hit that music festival.
Israel's land grabs, illegal settlements, daily raids and bulldozing of houses are the biggest barrier to peace at this point and the main cause of military conflict.
If you were talking about the West Bank you might have some type of argument, but this war is more about Israel V's Gaza (Hamas who are the government and military)
Gaza has been its own independent state since 2005 with its own government, there is no Jewish settlements in Gaza there is no Jews in Gaza, there was zero reason for them to attack Israel, but instead of improving life for its people it's spends its money on building tunnels and all kinds of other shit to wage war on Israel attacks Israel and gives Israel no choice but to retaliate.
Israel on the other hand despite being attacked with rockets long before the last few weeks from Gaza.
1. Provide Gaza with water and energy, they have no obligation to do so.
2. Allow 17,000 Palestines to work in Israel, have no obligation to do so.
Even Egypt that share a border with Gaza an Arab muslim country doesn't have a great relationship with them.
The real enemy of the Palestine people in Gaza is Hamas not Israel, Hamas has brought all this on its own people, the same ones it hides behind using as human shield's.
Yaaaah!
- ‘there was zero reason for them to attack Israel’ ;)
Here vee haz z lowinfo egzpert who knowz expwosions, hiztowy, and haz egztenzive first hand knowedge of z conflictz…
Az dizplayed in vid below, z lowinfo egzpert triez vewwy hard to break z ice of reality… but z deluzionz are too strong, z hazbara and z head in z bunghole haz rendered z low info egzpert to zimply being one of divine flopti’s shared philozophical butt plug buddiez ;);)
Az demonztrated here, z egzpert getz vewwy butthurt :
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But alaz, all hope iz not lost…
- divine flopti iz in conzert, and vill be shooting z shot to save uz all.
Get z ticketz @ # make persia great again ;);)
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&feature=youtu.beYaaah! ;)
Matt Johnson and The The had a handle on all these religious fuckwits way back in the 80's
Nice one @garyg1412
But how dare that song question the second coming of christ…
- so far divine flopti (of the ‘give murder a go’ congregation) is the only person who has made a comeback… and all ova lowinfo ;)
It’s worth resurrecting this as a tribute ;);)
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And, religious fuckwits do abound…
- imagine expressing concern for the killing of civilians in gaza (because showing solidarity with palestinians is automatically translated as support for hamas, of course) and being attacked for it.
Next thing you know there’ll be babies heads getting cut off !
- or at least just other kewl imaginary stories of horrific crimes…
Oh look! …..more elephants ;);)
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&feature=youtu.be indo-dreaming wrote:JaJake wrote:Everyone over there can make a legit claim to be a victim of oppression and they are all a bunch of incredulous assholes at this point. Israel is clearly an apartheid regime and the Palestinians clearly pulled some terrorist shit when they hit that music festival.
Israel's land grabs, illegal settlements, daily raids and bulldozing of houses are the biggest barrier to peace at this point and the main cause of military conflict.
If you were talking about the West Bank you might have some type of argument, but this war is more about Israel V's Gaza (Hamas who are the government and military)
Gaza has been its own independent state since 2005 with its own government, there is no Jewish settlements in Gaza there is no Jews in Gaza, there was zero reason for them to attack Israel, but instead of improving life for its people it's spends its money on building tunnels and all kinds of other shit to wage war on Israel attacks Israel and gives Israel no choice but to retaliate.
Israel on the other hand despite being attacked with rockets long before the last few weeks from Gaza.
1. Provide Gaza with water and energy, they have no obligation to do so.
2. Allow 17,000 Palestines to work in Israel, have no obligation to do so.
Even Egypt that share a border with Gaza an Arab muslim country doesn't have a great relationship with them.
The real enemy of the Palestine people in Gaza is Hamas not Israel, Hamas has brought all this on its own people, the same ones it hides behind using as human shield's.
Come on ID - we all know you are ideological but you're not an idiot. All of Palestine is under a process of violent, state sanctioned, internationally ignored colonisation. The idea that Israel doesn't control Gaza is contested by basically anyone but Israel. The Israeli government removed the Israeli settlers, using the army to do it by force when some wouldn't leave. Israel controls who and what goes in or out of Gaza. Israel controls the airspace and the seas. Israel have run a blockade since 2005 that actively prevents Gaze from developing. Israel sells water and power to Palestine for a profit, and prevents the transport of water from the West Bank to Gaza. Israel benefits more from the cheap, easily exploited labour of Palestinian workers than Palestine does. Israel has the power to kill thousands of Palestinians with impunity, funded by the West. Israel bombs mosques, refugee camps, UN schools, evacuation centres. Israel has killed thousands of Palestinian children with zero consequence. Israel continues to push people off their land, steal their homes, their grazing land, and bulldoze their farms into the ground. None of this is a secret or even disputed.
Sometimes the way you come off I can't help but imagine that you would have taken up arms with the Dutch to keep control of Indonesia.
Great post @ dandandan
- facts ;)
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Crisis of soul: moral relativism and the modern university
— The Spectator Australia (@SpectatorOz) October 22, 2023
None of the foul, wicked manifestations of antisemitism on campuses across the Western world since October 7 would have surprised Bloom, an American Jew born and raised in the Midwest.https://t.co/ZRQ9dJ3jLy
By me: Cancel culture's barbaric endpoint. The celebration of terrorist atrocities signifies a culture that has completely lost its moral compass.https://t.co/eRBf4T3r9d
— Joanna Williams (@jowilliams293) October 20, 2023
andy-mac wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kcd9m0SyfPE&pp=ygUSbWljaGFlbCB3ZXN0IG1lZGlh
well that was quite good...
aside from old mates delusions of grandeaur presentation style... and a couple of glaring ommisions / mistakes...
'no one murders babies' ...yeh nah... beheadings or not... babies were murdered....
'teales are a shade of green' ...nah yeh... teales are a shade of inner city green...
and, not one mention of the... 'israel bombed gaza's oldest church killing 500 people' debacle...
not one, not even a fleeting one...
the biggest '.. fall for propaganda...' of the war...
so far...
the one where nyt, abc, and every other 'reputable' source of certain persuasion fell hook line and sinker...
(and seem reluctant to correct the record...
still...)
the one that erupted the whole world into protest...
the one that cut biden out of the negotiations that matter.... on a lie!
but nothing...
not very 'fair and balanced'
old mate undermines his own argument...
Haha ;)
…‘negotiations’
Eugene in the tower of cower ;);)
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&pp=ygUOdHJvb3BzIG9mIGRvb20%3D and, speaking of 'fair and balanced', and propaganda and reputable...
after years and years of a certain nutty deranged mob telling us brietbart is 'anti-semetic'...
years and years of bleating...
I find this reporting interesting...
https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2023/10/20/israeli-morgue-workers-...
gsco wrote:https://twitter.com/SpectatorOz/status/1716224936539553843
https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1715218541979267217
pretty funny some of the literary gymnastics coming from the 'elites' when faced with funding cuts...
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/why-was-it-so-hard-elite-universitie...
At least there's now beginning to be a backlash against the antisemitism and pro-Hamas protesting and rallies:
Cancel Culture Comes for Hamas Lovers on Campushttps://t.co/XswrcAZPZx
— The American Spectator (@amspectator) October 22, 2023
This ME situation is really bringing out into the open how sick and pathological uni campuses have become form their critical race theory Marxist cult, in this case the whole decolonisation, post-colonialism, settler-occupier oppression, etc, ideology.
Jelly Flater wrote:Some good points, hard to argue that @JaJake…
But… it’s all good, we got christian conflict resolution theory wif flopti and, like planet heaven, it’s the real deal ;)
There is even footage of him expressing his problem solving ideology :
# make persia great again ;)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pRl212Y440Q
And… one must be careful, certain sentiments will get you on the lowinfo watch list arrrrghhh…
- call z feds ! ;)
I didn't quite follow your comments and didn't watch the video, but the thumbnail showing for the first video has me sold on whatever it is you're pushing.
gsco wrote:https://twitter.com/SpectatorOz/status/1716224936539553843
https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1715218541979267217
I've never understood this conservative fear that universities are hot beds of radicalism. I've worked in a couple of different universities and I've encountered people I'd genuinely call left-wing no more than a handful of times. I've never worked with anyone that is a socialist, scarcely encountered anyone that actually engages in any form of protest, and I imagine 80% of university lecturers don't even know what moral relativism even is. The modern university is almost entirely made up of people desperate to maintain the status quo, given that they benefit from it enormously.
The second article is seemingly just her arguing against her own imagined enemies. "The protesters claim to be anti-Israeli, but are clearly anti-Jewish" is something she decided upon, and it's very easy to pen an essay about something you've made up in your head.
Editing this in response to your recent post: I've taught thousands of students by now and not a single one would know what Marxism is. None of them would know what critical race theory is. Almost none of them will ever engage in any kind of protest beyond signing a petition or turning up to a mainstream climate rally. The libraries are basically devoid of books at all, let alone anything that might scare a conservative. Most of my colleagues are just overworked normies, property investors, and closet Liberal voters. Ask any left wing person their experience of working in a university and we will tell you it's the most conservative place we have ever worked. You've got nothing to fear about the modern university other than poorly trained engineers and too many marketing graduates.
Do we need Breitbart-legacy horror-shows on here @sypkan?.. the Haredim are hardly popular in mainstream Israel at times like this.. not sure what it is adding?
dandandan wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:JaJake wrote:Everyone over there can make a legit claim to be a victim of oppression and they are all a bunch of incredulous assholes at this point. Israel is clearly an apartheid regime and the Palestinians clearly pulled some terrorist shit when they hit that music festival.
Israel's land grabs, illegal settlements, daily raids and bulldozing of houses are the biggest barrier to peace at this point and the main cause of military conflict.
If you were talking about the West Bank you might have some type of argument, but this war is more about Israel V's Gaza (Hamas who are the government and military)
Gaza has been its own independent state since 2005 with its own government, there is no Jewish settlements in Gaza there is no Jews in Gaza, there was zero reason for them to attack Israel, but instead of improving life for its people it's spends its money on building tunnels and all kinds of other shit to wage war on Israel attacks Israel and gives Israel no choice but to retaliate.
Israel on the other hand despite being attacked with rockets long before the last few weeks from Gaza.
1. Provide Gaza with water and energy, they have no obligation to do so.
2. Allow 17,000 Palestines to work in Israel, have no obligation to do so.
Even Egypt that share a border with Gaza an Arab muslim country doesn't have a great relationship with them.
The real enemy of the Palestine people in Gaza is Hamas not Israel, Hamas has brought all this on its own people, the same ones it hides behind using as human shield's.
Come on ID - we all know you are ideological but you're not an idiot. All of Palestine is under a process of violent, state sanctioned, internationally ignored colonisation. The idea that Israel doesn't control Gaza is contested by basically anyone but Israel. The Israeli government removed the Israeli settlers, using the army to do it by force when some wouldn't leave. Israel controls who and what goes in or out of Gaza. Israel controls the airspace and the seas. Israel have run a blockade since 2005 that actively prevents Gaze from developing. Israel sells water and power to Palestine for a profit, and prevents the transport of water from the West Bank to Gaza. Israel benefits more from the cheap, easily exploited labour of Palestinian workers than Palestine does. Israel has the power to kill thousands of Palestinians with impunity, funded by the West. Israel bombs mosques, refugee camps, UN schools, evacuation centres. Israel has killed thousands of Palestinian children with zero consequence. Israel continues to push people off their land, steal their homes, their grazing land, and bulldoze their farms into the ground. None of this is a secret or even disputed.
Sometimes the way you come off I can't help but imagine that you would have taken up arms with the Dutch to keep control of Indonesia.
Thats mostly garbage you have obviously been swallowing too many pro Palestine social media post Indonesians share
You are mixing up the issues of Gaza and the West bank they are seperate issues.
Again since 2005 its been a seperate state that can do as they wish, there has been no Jewish settlements in Gaza, no Jews in Gaza, again Israel has zero obligation to provide Gaza with anything be it water, energy, food, employment or whatever else but they still do so.
Gaza also shares a border with Egypt who despite being arabs and muslim, control the border in a very strict manner.
Comparing Dutch in Indonesia to this issues is crazy the Jews are the original Indigenous people the Palestine people are not and there has never been a Palestine state.
1) Before the modern State of Israel, there was a British Mandate, not a Palestinian State.
2) Before the British Mandate
It was the Ottoman Empire, not the Palestinian State.
3) Before the Ottoman Empire, there was an Islamic state of Mamluk Egypt, not a Palestinian state.
4) Before the Mamluk Islamic State of Egypt, there was the Ayyubid Empire, not the Palestinian State. Geoffrey IV of Boulogne, known as Godfrey of Bouillon, conqueror of Jerusalem in 1099.
5) Before the Ayyubid Empire, there was a Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state.
6) Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem, there were the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, not the Palestinian state.
7) Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, there was the Byzantine Empire, not the Palestinian state.
8 ) Before the Byzantine Empire, there was the Roman Empire, not the Palestinian state.
9) Before the Roman Empire, there was a Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state.
10) Before the Hasmonean state there was a Seleucid state, not a Palestinian state.
11) Before the Seleucid Empire, there was the Empire of Alexander the Great, not the Palestinian State.
12) Before the empire of Alexander the Great, there was a Persian Empire, not a Palestinian state.
13) Before the Persian Empire, there was the Babylonian Empire, not the Palestinian State.
14) Before the Babylonian Empire, there were the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not the Palestinian state.
15) Before the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was the Kingdom of Israel, not the Palestinian state.
16) Before the Kingdom of Israel, there was a theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, not a Palestinian state.
17) Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an agglomeration of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state.
In fact, there was everything on this piece of land except a Palestinian State.
The elephant in the room.
Is radical Islam = Jihad & Jihadist
indo-dreaming wrote:Allow 17,000 Palestines to work in Israel, have no obligation to do so.
Indo now that you mention this I'll let you in on a little secret. When I was growing up we allowed thousands of black people into our white neighbourhoods to work. Just like the Palestinians they had to have a permit to come into our neighbourhoods and just like the Palestinians they were paid fuck all. We had no obligation to do this, except for the fact that it was awesome having cheap labour that cleaned our houses, maintained our gardens and generally made a us all rich. Sound familiar??? It was a policy that caused an outcry for decades around the world from most countries on this planet. Well except for Israel probably. So when you make a comment like this cast your mind back to those days and ask yourself is this really something the Israeli's should be proud of, and if it is then maybe its time our leaders called them out like they did back then. Its hypocrisy at its finest the way our leaders address this whole issue.
@ JaJake… ;)
… flopti, or ‘divine flopti’ (optimist) is our resident pro war christian…
- he has a planet heaven theory where you go to the centre of the earth after death and then get beamed up a sci fi style wormhole to hang out with jesus and the heavenly lawd in an eternal spirit party ;)
It’s real. He says so. And jesus is also returning, it is a prophecy…
- all you have to do is start bombing iran first.
& lowinfo (indo-dreaming), is the resident hasbara drama queen… he tries wheely hard to moderate this thread with incessant stupidity, whilst pretending to be an expert on all things israel - and seeks retribution for anti zionist rhetoric by desiring to report dissenting opinions ;)
The preferred stance is war.
- so jump on the war train if u like ;)
Otherwise, I encourage you to say whatever u like… and enjoy your time
- in the most wonderful online mini middle east microcosm of attempted thread narrative control and pro israeli coercion and propaganda ;)
It’s a hoot, and hopefully you are good at spotting elephants ;);)
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ID everything I mentioned is literally just in the news - from the BBC to CNN to AJ to ABC to Fox. It's in articles, in books, on television, in newspapers, in podcasts, in reports. It's common knowledge and none of it is contested by anyone.
But dandan you just expressed in your response to Indo the classical Marxist critical race theory based antisemitic decolonisation, settler-occupier-oppressor ideological claptrap that you claim doesn’t exist. It’s all just one-sided, racist, antisemitic ideological Marxist propaganda.
But to your credit those articles are mostly referring to US campuses.
However, I could post a whole host of literature, research and commentary analysing the changes in social sciences/humanities/history etc curriculum in Aus schools and universities and how they are following the US trend towards critical studies and postmodern nihilism.
& votch out for z elephant jihadiztz…
- faaaaaaaaark ;)
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Wow some wildly ill-informed and grossly inflammatory comments above by the usual suspects.
Haha, Jelly, I picture you with bookmarks of clips you are itching to wrangle into conversations.. got great giggles from the Family Guy montage and the Kraut trying to break the glass-floor ; )
These morons are the gifts that keep on giving @basesix ;)
- divine flopti calling for violence and death ;);)
- whilst lowinfo tries to call out jihadists ;)
It’s like an elephant is sitting on their faces haha
- but we can’t see it as long as they can convince themselves, right ;);)
Derrrrrrrrrrrp.
i think you are oversimplifying @Jelly
(coke habit, or the eternal-runny-nose of the eastern european?)
dandandan wrote:gsco wrote:https://twitter.com/SpectatorOz/status/1716224936539553843
https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1715218541979267217
I've never understood this conservative fear that universities are hot beds of radicalism. I've worked in a couple of different universities and I've encountered people I'd genuinely call left-wing no more than a handful of times. I've never worked with anyone that is a socialist, scarcely encountered anyone that actually engages in any form of protest, and I imagine 80% of university lecturers don't even know what moral relativism even is. The modern university is almost entirely made up of people desperate to maintain the status quo, given that they benefit from it enormously.
The second article is seemingly just her arguing against her own imagined enemies. "The protesters claim to be anti-Israeli, but are clearly anti-Jewish" is something she decided upon, and it's very easy to pen an essay about something you've made up in your head.
Editing this in response to your recent post: I've taught thousands of students by now and not a single one would know what Marxism is. None of them would know what critical race theory is. Almost none of them will ever engage in any kind of protest beyond signing a petition or turning up to a mainstream climate rally. The libraries are basically devoid of books at all, let alone anything that might scare a conservative. Most of my colleagues are just overworked normies, property investors, and closet Liberal voters. Ask any left wing person their experience of working in a university and we will tell you it's the most conservative place we have ever worked. You've got nothing to fear about the modern university other than poorly trained engineers and too many marketing graduates.
yes and no...
clearly depends on the university and faculty
my course had a big focus on post modernism and moral relativism (education). it was mainly at the start of the course as an introduction to 'the debates', and what we as educators should do... but it did continue throughout, and it was interesting in the later years when lecturers (of clear left persuasion) would hint at the post modernists versus those with a more 'scientific method' approach...
this was over 15 years ago!
well before the debates hit the mainstream
I am aware education courses at other uni's went nowhere near this stuff
it has only 'blossomed' since then... and I agree most people are totally unaware of these debates
...and the foundation of much of the propaganda claptrap they unconsciously sprout and repost on social media...
if they did know.... I have no doubt they wouldn't be so vehemently reactionary to 'opposing views' and criticisms...
the world ain't either / or...
or shouldn't need to be...
And now Germany is talking about deporting pro-Hamas, antisemitism protesters: https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/germany-must-deport-on-a-large-scal...
There’s really no place on this planet for celebrating terrorism and antisemitism.
It's neither true nor fair to equate support for Palestinians with a celebration of terrorism and antisemitism. It's also neither true nor fair to equate the state of Israel and the actions of those in power with Jewish people.
So much of this conversation reminds me of the way people talked about the Iraq War.
Regarding Iran, we had to go and get the nazis and we have to go after Iran unfortunately.
If we don’t …it will never stop. …the women in Iran would love a government change if you’ve been paying attention.
If the world wimps out and throws Israel under the Islamic jihadi bus for a false peace that would never last….
…that will be the battle of Armageddon …in the valley of Megiddo.
Make no mistake it will be the end of the world as you know it….this is my last post again….back to my project.
I hope that you and the world see where we are heading …..this is really really bad.
If you kill Israel you kill yourself….it’s a pivotal moment in earths history.
Unfortunately, i think the current world leaders are so spineless that they will listen to the Islamic noise and they will eventually sell Israel out.
Islam will cry “ give us Israel and we will give you peace”…and it will be another lie.
And the western world will totally collapse…because we will have cursed ourselves.
Pessimist out….shalom.
The expert on Indigenous affairs has finished schooling everyone on that and has now moved on to being the resident Middle East expert telling everyone what’s right and wrong.
Beautiful stuff.
…’love thy neighbour’
…’thou shalt not kill’
- Lie$$$
;)
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&pp=ygUZc2hvcnQgbWVtb3J5IG1pZG5pZ2h0IG9pbA%3D%3D dandandan wrote:It's neither true nor fair to equate support for Palestinians with a celebration of terrorism and antisemitism. It's also neither true nor fair to equate the state of Israel and the actions of those in power with Jewish people.
So much of this conversation reminds me of the way people talked about the Iraq War.
yes and no again...
I see some old - or alternative - palestinian leaders have come out and said pretty much what you say...
they are the old school, who supported a two state solution, and say most palestinians do not support hamas' radical position
they also say hamas has murdered 1000s of palestinians, and that the information / misinformation vacuum or bubble is more extreme within palestine than anywhere
and, that the poor old palestinians wouldn't back hamas at all if they got just a glimmer of 'truth' as to what is actually going on...
how to seperate the two?
morons like owen jones and his legion of desciples sprouting their indoctrinated 'decolonisation' claptrap aren't really helping any of this...
your posts have been quite good, for you, @optimist, your references are as they are, possibly not your fault, though it is disappointing that THIS is what it took for you to briefly come out of retirement. There will never be a wiping-out-of-a-thing that makes a magical thing happen for all-mankind - that's a biblical borrowed-truth we should all agree on; life will forever be a constant battle for real-people and grass-roots stakeholders. We have to work with what we have, at any given moment - kindly, and with empathy, as best we can. For this lived life.
@gsco - got the board game Risk? Endless fun for the whole... whatever you got.
my recommend: find a flakey hippy in a neighboring van (that finds your brand of sensationalist 'end of days' hyperbole amusing... if the van-part of your story is even true), pour some negronis, and while-away the evenings in creating engaging maybe-narratives about what may befall 'us' in the coming decades.
goofyfoot wrote:The expert on Indigenous affairs has finished schooling everyone on that and has now moved on to being the resident Middle East expert telling everyone what’s right and wrong.
Beautiful stuff.
Haha yep. Would love to see him standing in the middle of Gaza reading out that last post about how Palestine has never been a state..
To the actual Palestinians, currently getting rained on by missiles. I'm sure that'd be greatly welcomed!
Also, great post above @dandandan. Condemning the actions of military and leaders of either side does not align you with the other side. That should be fundamentally obvious.
indo-dreaming wrote:The elephant in the room.
Is radical Islam = Jihad & Jihadist
Good on you, you finally got there...huzzah
sypkan wrote:dandandan wrote:It's neither true nor fair to equate support for Palestinians with a celebration of terrorism and antisemitism. It's also neither true nor fair to equate the state of Israel and the actions of those in power with Jewish people.
So much of this conversation reminds me of the way people talked about the Iraq War.
yes and no again...
I see some old - or alternative - palestinian leaders have come out and said pretty much what you say...
they are the old school, who supported a two state solution, and say most palestinians do not support hamas' radical position
they also say hamas has murdered 1000s of palestinians, and that the information / misinformation vacuum or bubble is more extreme within palestine than anywhere
and, that the poor old palestinians wouldn't back hamas at all if they got just a glimmer of 'truth' as to what is actually going on...
how to seperate the two?
morons like owen jones and his legion of desciples sprouting their indoctrinated 'decolonisation' claptrap aren't really helping any of this...
they also say hamas has murdered 1000s of palestinians, and that the information / misinformation vacuum or bubble is more extreme within palestine than anywhere
Well, the Palestinians elected Hamas. Before Hamas attacked the support for Hamas in Gaza was running at about 55%.
As per wiki, there was never any such thing as a Palestinian state until being set up at the same time as Israel was, after the British mandate period. The area has a very long, colourful and tumultuous history (and the whole idea of a nation-state is barely 100yrs old):
“Strategically situated between three continents, the region of Palestine (also known as the Land of Israel and the Holy Land) has a tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. Palestine is the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity, and has been controlled by many kingdoms and powers, including Ancient Egypt, Ancient Israel and Judah, the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great and his successors, the Hasmoneans, the Roman Empire, several Muslim caliphates, and the crusaders. In modern times, the area was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, then the British Empire and since 1948 it has been divided into Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
The Jewish have the strongest claim to indigeneity out of any peoples.
The idea that Israel is an occupier-settler state or regime is completely reductive.
Locals only.
'as per wiki'.
Yeah i think thats the point GF was making.
Not doubting the claims, just the well of knowledge they're suddenly springing from.
Here's an interesting, slightly more in depth read for anyone interested in the formative years leading up to a Jewish state.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/zeev-jabotinsky/
SR the outline of the history of the area on wiki is stock standard in line with most accepted, mainstream and reputable sources. I can reference about 20 more if you want. There’s no wiki conspiracy.
My assumption was that people already knew this stuff, but seems that I’m wrong on that one. That would partly explain why some people think Israel is a colonial settler-occupier state.
(Of course above I’m only quoting the intro paragraph.)
Good u can admit you work on assumptions…
- and are wrong ;)
…facts.
wasn't directed at you gsco.
Your knowledge is unquestionable, even if i don't agree with the way you interpret it.
Makes for fun reading though!
Was thinking more of the overnight googler who's taking over another thread...who i should also add, i do agree with on some points...but yeah, what Goofy said. :-P
garyg1412 wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Allow 17,000 Palestines to work in Israel, have no obligation to do so.
Indo now that you mention this I'll let you in on a little secret. When I was growing up we allowed thousands of black people into our white neighbourhoods to work. Just like the Palestinians they had to have a permit to come into our neighbourhoods and just like the Palestinians they were paid fuck all. We had no obligation to do this, except for the fact that it was awesome having cheap labour that cleaned our houses, maintained our gardens and generally made a us all rich. Sound familiar??? It was a policy that caused an outcry for decades around the world from most countries on this planet. Well except for Israel probably. So when you make a comment like this cast your mind back to those days and ask yourself is this really something the Israeli's should be proud of, and if it is then maybe its time our leaders called them out like they did back then. Its hypocrisy at its finest the way our leaders address this whole issue.
I 100% get that, it happens all around the world even Indonesians go work as maids in Singapore or elsewhere but i dont think its a bad thing, the alternative is no job or income.
It even happens for Aussies, plenty of girls go work in places like Japan as host, i knew quite a few when younger, not hookers either just paid to hang out and flirt with business men.
Its something that works for both parties.
Ha ha funny people giving gsco shit for using Wiki as a source but have no issue quoting information and figures from Hamas.
When you quote any info from a Gaza authority like figures on deaths etc you are quoting Hamas, they are the government they control everything, and it not a country where any department or media are free to question or criticise
You might as well believe or quote ISIS or Al Qaeda its reall no different.
We saw how inflated their figures were from the hospital blast 500 deaths according them while all experts say the blast site would be lucky to take out a dozen, and they only showed a few bodies.
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Today's shit talk is tomorrow's policy.