The Israel Palestine problem solving thread

stunet's picture
stunet started the topic in Tuesday, 17 Oct 2023 at 10:45am

Because the world would be a better place if leaders only listened to Swellnet commenters, we've created a forum that makes it easy for them to gather our thoughts.

Today's shit talk is tomorrow's policy.

green room's picture
green room's picture
green room Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 12:33pm

Aussie surfing website allowing pro Islamic terrorism content. Dude, I’ve seen it all now

basesix's picture
basesix's picture
basesix Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 12:43pm

The starting point here in Aus @greenroom, is an understanding that Hams' un-human behaviour was disgusting. That Israel should exist, and should defend itself. That Gaza has been a cage for a generation. This is all a given. Then we discuss.

(Muslims and Jews that come to Australia, come to escape, and 99% practice their faith peacefully. The 1% who don't, fuck off after a bit, or are sent packing.)

We don't have a history of antisemitism like the US, such as not letting Jews join Republican Country Clubs for decades. You may have problems along the lines of what Noa Tishby says, the SJP or whatever funding whatever for whatever, I simply don't know.

We downunder don't want to get sucked into a bunch of jingoistic this-side-that-side bullshit, lest we lose sight of the humanity on both sides. Good luck to you over there bro.

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 12:56pm
basesix wrote:

The starting point here in Aus @greenroom, is an understanding that Hams' un-human behaviour was disgusting. That Israel should exist, and should defend itself. That Gaza has been a cage for a generation. This is all a given. Then we discuss.

(Muslims and Jews that come to Australia, come to escape, and 99% practice their faith peacefully. The 1% who don't, fuck off after a bit, or are sent packing.)

We don't have a history of antisemitism like the US, such as not letting Jews join Republican Country Clubs for decades. You may have problems along the lines of what Noa Tishby says, the SJP or whatever funding whatever for whatever, I simply don't know.

We downunder don't want to get sucked into a bunch of jingoistic this-side-that-side bullshit, lest we lose sight of the humanity on both sides. Good luck to you over there bro.

+1

southernraw's picture
southernraw's picture
southernraw Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 1:02pm

And from me too @basesix. Well said.

Jelly Flater's picture
Jelly Flater's picture
Jelly Flater Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 1:07pm

Yep @basesix… spot on

- now… where’s my farkn uzis ;);)

https://m.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 2:06pm

stunet - "What I find most interesting is watching this incursion, unlike the last Intifadas, which occurred before social media, now get sketched in all the absolute colours of a modern culture war. That's one thing that didn't happen before,. Observers from all sides of politics urged restraint. Yet to do so now is considered traitorous to democracy.

Those replies above are as dangerous and idiotic as the ones they rebuke. All inject false premise in a war that has far more to do with land than the great trope of Western civilization."

greenroom - "Nah, incorrect, stunet bro, shamefully dumb.

This war is well and truely a mix of false narratives of history, religious grievances, fanatical Islamic terrorism, ethnicity, the long march of the anti-West left permeating our institutions, the ongoing global power struggles and realignments, and more.

It's way beyond just fighting for land.

Your comment, stunet dude, either screams your political bias or straight-up lack of smarts and education.

Pathetic and embarrassing man."

is it not both?

had this conversation yesterday...

it is almost indisputeably about land - always has been...

but it ain't happening in a vacuum

the loudest rabble in the streets are who made it about so called 'culture wars'

first...

with all their post colonisation indoctrinated bullshit... how the fuck they actually envision the 'decolonisation' of israel... is beyond me...

it is just not a realistic approach to take

it does not call for peace

and, it just makes any possible solution all the more less likely / impossible...

israel is there - as a result of rare almost unanimous agreement at the UN at the end of WW11

I think almost anyone who has followed this situation would agree israel should not be allowed to increase it's 'settlements' ... however, these land grabs are almost always a result of agression from israel's neighbours, resulting in various wars...

the spoils of war?

(and possibly 'the right' to create buffer zones to protect against future agression?)

it is a failure of the UN (US) that has allowed israel to actually settle in these regions

it is only nutty right wing fundamentalist israelis that wish to settle these regions...

and, it is only nutty right wing fundamentalist palestinians that expect israel to totally move out... or else...

and this where the lefty culture war clowns in the streets are funny... they are backing right wing fundamentalist religious nutters...

everything they supposedly hate...

(when connected to christianity anyway...)

the gays for palestine bit just adds another layer of irony and hypocrisy...

and therefore... ripeness for ridicule...

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 2:02pm

Verbose piffle isn’t a tautology or is it?
Either way it accurately describes ^^^^

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 1:58pm

the fact there's been war raging in yemen for years - with likely 10 - 100s of 1000s of dead children - with barely a murmer from the rabble is just weird...

sypkan's picture
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sypkan Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 2:02pm

not to mention syria...

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 2:07pm
sypkan wrote:

not to mention syria...

https://twitter.com/AsaadHannaa/status/1725363598916977058

Interesting … or Ukrainian children/civilians killed by Russia , well that is all over the press as war crimes yet in Gaza well , you know, the shit Optiflopi peddles. Massive moral failure!

Jelly Flater's picture
Jelly Flater's picture
Jelly Flater Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 3:40pm

;);)

https://m.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 6:03pm

https://m.

I focus's picture
I focus's picture
I focus Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023 at 11:34pm
green room wrote:

another stupid, uneducated trolling Aussie believing Islamic terrorists

Judging by this website, you'd swear Australia's like 90% filled with dumb folks either brainwashed by the long march of lefty ideology we got over here in the States or that Hamas BS & lies.

Green room what ever happen to nuance in the US?

You know no one here supports Hamas, say that again no one here supports Hamas but we also don't support the slaughter of Palestinian women and children.

We also know the Israelis don't always wear white hats (just trying to help you out here) and are happy to call them out for it that's not support for Hama or anisemenic thats if you want our support stop slaughtering women and children.

Now we know the US and us slaughtered 10,000's during the Iraq war given the out come we all know it's wrong ...right.

Just trying to help.

green room's picture
green room's picture
green room Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 7:41am

ifocus bro, check it, is that your idea of gettin' into the nuanced nitty-gritty and lendin' a hand?

First off, Israel ain't out here slayin' innocent folks or pullin' war crimes. It's Hamas playin' dirty, knockin' off Israelis, kickin' off wars with Israel and throwin' civilians in the mix like they're chess pieces.

Israel's been hustlin' for like seven decades tryna make that two-state vibe work. But them Arab Muslims ain't feelin' it, man. They keep tryna wreck it, aimin' to wipe out all Israelis and crush Israel off the map.

Yo, and Israel ain't no settler, occupier, colonial gig, either, dude. Them Arab Muslims don't have any historical stake in the hood. They rolled up on that scene not too long ago in history and straight up slaughtered a bunch of folks in the process. The Jewish crew and their faith naturally sprouted in that spot, but they've been bounced and herded around a bunch in history, and even worse, these days on their rightful turf they are forced to face off with them Arab Muslims and their terrorism game.

And when it comes to Iraq, bro, I wouldn't even know where to begin with that "educated, nuanced assessment" of yours.

Check this site – many peeps be droppin' non-stop anti-Israel, anti-US, antisemitic, pro-Hamas, and pro-Islamic terror vibes. It's straight-up disgusting, pathetic, and shameful.

Downunder, things are lookin' messed up.

But peep this, I know this site ain't the voice of regular Aussies. I'm always cruisin' downunder, and I've been keepin' tabs on this site for a couple of years. And check out what went down with The Voice – this site ain't mirroring the vibe of the regular folks out there at all.

too many peeps 'round here be deep in this messed-up, toxic drama:

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 8:23am
I focus wrote:
green room wrote:

another stupid, uneducated trolling Aussie believing Islamic terrorists

Judging by this website, you'd swear Australia's like 90% filled with dumb folks either brainwashed by the long march of lefty ideology we got over here in the States or that Hamas BS & lies.

Green room what ever happen to nuance in the US?

You know no one here supports Hamas, say that again no one here supports Hamas but we also don't support the slaughter of Palestinian women and children.

We also know the Israelis don't always wear white hats (just trying to help you out here) and are happy to call them out for it that's not support for Hama or anisemenic thats if you want our support stop slaughtering women and children.

Now we know the US and us slaughtered 10,000's during the Iraq war given the out come we all know it's wrong ...right.

Just trying to help.

The problem i think we now have is we all live so detached from the reality of how things work in the wider world and what war really is, we want war to be this things between solider versus soldier, while Hamas have purposely tried to create the opposite of this and put their own civilians between the two because either way they win, if not attacked because civilian's they win, if attacked and civilians die they win.

Its made worse by the fact we now see things in real time info, pictures and footage and that Hamas for instance have their own propaganda machine as Jelly brain has shown..

So we end up with two things, a war on the battle ground and an information war, Israel are winning the war on the ground, but in a way Hamas are winning the information war, and always will because there is no way to fight a war like this without civilians deaths and its made worse by the fact the tally of deaths is given by Hamas.

Whatever view you take, like it or not you end up supporting one side or the other, because even if you take this view Israel are killing to many civilians, you are playing into the hands of Hamas and giving them exactly what they want, your view puts pressure on Israel to not complete the job needed which is to destroy Hamas, and as much of their tunnels and military infrastructure as possible and get them out of government.

BTW. Lets not forget thousands of innocent Germans died destroying Hitler and the Nazis, if that war happened today we would have the same people saying too many civilian's are dying the war needs to stop now and if the war wasn't completed and the Nazis and hitler not destroyed, history would now be very different.

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 8:21am
green room wrote:

ifocus bro, check it, is that your idea of gettin' into the nuanced nitty-gritty and lendin' a hand?

First off, Israel ain't out here slayin' innocent folks or pullin' war crimes. It's Hamas playin' dirty, knockin' off Israelis, kickin' off wars with Israel and throwin' civilians in the mix like they're chess pieces.

Israel's been hustlin' for like seven decades tryna make that two-state vibe work. But them Arab Muslims ain't feelin' it, man. They keep tryna wreck it, aimin' to wipe out all Israelis and crush Israel off the map.

Yo, and Israel ain't no settler, occupier, colonial gig, either, dude. Them Arab Muslims don't have any historical stake in the hood. They rolled up on that scene not too long ago in history and straight up slaughtered a bunch of folks in the process. The Jewish crew and their faith naturally sprouted in that spot, but they've been bounced and herded around a bunch in history, and even worse, these days on their rightful turf they are forced to face off with them Arab Muslims and their terrorism game.

And when it comes to Iraq, bro, I wouldn't even know where to begin with that "educated, nuanced assessment" of yours.

Check this site – many peeps be droppin' non-stop anti-Israel, anti-US, antisemitic, pro-Hamas, and pro-Islamic terror vibes. It's straight-up disgusting, pathetic, and shameful.

Downunder, things are lookin' messed up.

But peep this, I know this site ain't the voice of regular Aussies. I'm always cruisin' downunder, and I've been keepin' tabs on this site for a couple of years. And check out what went down with The Voice – this site ain't mirroring the vibe of the regular folks out there at all.

too many peeps 'round here be deep in this messed-up, toxic drama:

https://twitter.com/EuroConOfficial/status/1726888188877078828

https://twitter.com/BoozeAndFagz/status/1726854830193295738

https://twitter.com/CommonSenseScty/status/1727049900200735225

https://twitter.com/firstthingsmag/status/1727046722592084316

https://twitter.com/AmMomentOrg/status/1727042655916302760

https://twitter.com/theammind/status/1727033116508725738

“First off, Israel ain't out here slayin' innocent folks or pullin' war crimes. It's Hamas playin' dirty, knockin' off Israelis, kickin' off wars with Israel and throwin' civilians in the mix like they're chess pieces.”

Correct.

southernraw's picture
southernraw's picture
southernraw Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 8:26am

I feel 90percent stupider from reading the last 3 posts.

green room's picture
green room's picture
green room Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 8:36am

Yeah, and you come off looking dumb as well. What's written up there just lays it out—how off the mark and totally wrong you and a bunch of others have been on this topic, southernraw.

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 8:32am
southernraw wrote:

I feel 90percent stupider from reading the last 3 posts.

Well considering your intelligence at 100% is 90% less than the average person..stupider than stupid is the outcome. :)

southernraw's picture
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southernraw Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 8:44am

Says the fella who's 'smarts' are just regurgitated straight from his television :-)

southernraw's picture
southernraw's picture
southernraw Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 8:45am
green room wrote:

Yeah, and you come off looking dumb as well. What's written up there just lays it out—how off the mark and totally wrong you and a bunch of others have been on this topic, southernraw.

What? No duuuuude?? No peeeops?? No broooo?
Thank fuck. Good to have you back GSCO.
That shit was getting weird.

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 8:52am

“First off, Israel ain't out here slayin' innocent folks “

Yo, you can say that again brother, I knew all along those Palestinian kids were guilty…

green room's picture
green room's picture
green room Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 9:04am

goofy Aussie bro, it's all on Hamas for that. When you gonna wake up to the facts, man?

Yo, the real question on my mind is why so many of you Aussie dudes buy into this stuff?

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 9:09am

Ok bro

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 9:15am
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

andy-mac's picture
andy-mac's picture
andy-mac Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 9:30am
indo-dreaming wrote:
I focus wrote:
green room wrote:

another stupid, uneducated trolling Aussie believing Islamic terrorists

Judging by this website, you'd swear Australia's like 90% filled with dumb folks either brainwashed by the long march of lefty ideology we got over here in the States or that Hamas BS & lies.

Green room what ever happen to nuance in the US?

You know no one here supports Hamas, say that again no one here supports Hamas but we also don't support the slaughter of Palestinian women and children.

We also know the Israelis don't always wear white hats (just trying to help you out here) and are happy to call them out for it that's not support for Hama or anisemenic thats if you want our support stop slaughtering women and children.

Now we know the US and us slaughtered 10,000's during the Iraq war given the out come we all know it's wrong ...right.

Just trying to help.

The problem i think we now have is we all live so detached from the reality of how things work in the wider world and what war really is, we want war to be this things between solider versus soldier, while Hamas have purposely tried to create the opposite of this and put their own civilians between the two because either way they win, if not attacked because civilian's they win, if attacked and civilians die they win.

Its made worse by the fact we now see things in real time info, pictures and footage and that Hamas for instance have their own propaganda machine as Jelly brain has shown..

So we end up with two things, a war on the battle ground and an information war, Israel are winning the war on the ground, but in a way Hamas are winning the information war, and always will because there is no way to fight a war like this without civilians deaths and its made worse by the fact the tally of deaths is given by Hamas.

Whatever view you take, like it or not you end up supporting one side or the other, because even if you take this view Israel are killing to many civilians, you are playing into the hands of Hamas and giving them exactly what they want, your view puts pressure on Israel to not complete the job needed which is to destroy Hamas, and as much of their tunnels and military infrastructure as possible and get them out of government.

BTW. Lets not forget thousands of innocent Germans died destroying Hitler and the Nazis, if that war happened today we would have the same people saying too many civilian's are dying the war needs to stop now and if the war wasn't completed and the Nazis and hitler not destroyed, history would now be very different.

What is the truth?
Fucked if I know?

Some of the info in this aligns with the video previously posted with Chris Hedges.
Might be BS, but Chris Hedges has a solid reputation for proper thorough journalism.
Re Iraq; di they find this WMD?

https://johnmenadue.com/the-october-7-hamas-assault-on-israel-the-most-s...

soggydog's picture
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soggydog Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 9:34am
Roadkill wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

To all who advocate for further violence regardless of which side. That includes you and your stupid mates above.

soggydog's picture
soggydog's picture
soggydog Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 9:34am
Roadkill wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

To all who advocate for further violence regardless of which side. That includes you and your stupid mates above.

san Guine's picture
san Guine's picture
san Guine Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 9:53am

Bros,
Y'all got to understand that the folks in the US are always on the side of the righteous. A few billion dead presidents here 'n there never hurt no-one, 'cept a few muslims.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-...

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 10:27am
Jelly Flater wrote:

Yep @basesix… spot on

- now… where’s my farkn uzis ;);)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLmfSuXNDOk

with my Uzi 9mm I get what I want

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 10:30am
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

To all who advocate for further violence regardless of which side. That includes you and your stupid mates above.

To understand culpability is pretty important. Too many people are apportioning blame to both side or apportioning blame to Israel…..as you are.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 10:46am
Roadkill wrote:
southernraw wrote:

I feel 90percent stupider from reading the last 3 posts.

Well considering your intelligence at 100% is 90% less than the average person..stupider than stupid is the outcome. :)

Roadkill: I've changed

Also Roadkill: Read above

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 10:50am
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

To all who advocate for further violence regardless of which side. That includes you and your stupid mates above.

Ps..I don’t advocate for further violence. I do want the whole thing to end with as few a deaths as possible. However the real world doesn’t work as simplistically as you and/or your mates above think it does.

Peace won’t come about if Israel ceases all actions against Hamas.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 10:53am
indo-dreaming wrote:

BTW. Lets not forget thousands of innocent Germans died destroying Hitler and the Nazis, if that war happened today we would have the same people saying too many civilian's are dying the war needs to stop now and if the war wasn't completed and the Nazis and hitler not destroyed, history would now be very different.

Indo, the most horrific damage to the German people occurred after the war ended.

https://www.amazon.com/Hellstorm-Death-Nazi-Germany-1944-1947-ebook/dp/B...

https://barnesreview.org/product/hellstorm-the-death-of-nazi-germany-194...

A protip for Australians if the simmering conflicts of the world escalate: don't lose.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 11:06am

Interesting until this paragraph VJ, then the alarm bells started ringing -

"The Allies defeated Germany so that Jews could run our banks, media, governments, and corporations, brainwash our children to hate themselves, flood our lands with hostile invaders, and enslave us as their goyim. They are already planning and enacting another hellstorm in all white countries using their radicalized Bolshevik foot soldiers."

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 11:11am
velocityjohnno wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

BTW. Lets not forget thousands of innocent Germans died destroying Hitler and the Nazis, if that war happened today we would have the same people saying too many civilian's are dying the war needs to stop now and if the war wasn't completed and the Nazis and hitler not destroyed, history would now be very different.

Indo, the most horrific damage to the German people occurred after the war ended.

https://www.amazon.com/Hellstorm-Death-Nazi-Germany-1944-1947-ebook/dp/B...

https://barnesreview.org/product/hellstorm-the-death-of-nazi-germany-194...

A protip for Australians if the simmering conflicts of the world escalate: don't lose.

Geez that looks like it would be a horrible confronting read.
Humans ey.

andy-mac's picture
andy-mac's picture
andy-mac Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 11:44am
velocityjohnno wrote:

Yeah Andy, I put it in as a second link... the Amazon link should be enough. The story of what happened to the Germans immediately after WW2 has yet to get widespread attention.

Aside: it's a very controversial topic; if one would go through works such as 'Hitler and His Generals' (banned in the West, assume you are in the East when reading it...) one might find that it is nowhere near as heavy on about the holocaust denial, and is rather the chronicle of a bunch of guys making shit up as they go, as they invade one country after another and boost their coffers until Von Ribbentrop fucks up with the British diplomacy bit and they find themselves at war.

Yeah, I just read the Amazon info and a couple of reviews and that was enough.

As Chris Hedges points out in one of his books and I'm paraphrasing, good people can do horrendous things as can bad people do noble things when thrown into war.

Stuff people do for a cause!
Banality of evil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=the+act+of+killing+documentary&sca_es...

soggydog's picture
soggydog's picture
soggydog Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 12:06pm
Roadkill wrote:
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

To all who advocate for further violence regardless of which side. That includes you and your stupid mates above.

Ps..I don’t advocate for further violence. I do want the whole thing to end with as few a deaths as possible. However the real world doesn’t work as simplistically as you and/or your mates above think it does.

Peace won’t come about if Israel ceases all actions against Hamas.

What do you think creates a terrorist.

In a successful conflict resolution nobody should be happy and nobody should be dying.

You think Israeli’s increased military activity will bring peace?

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 12:08pm

andy-mac - also the reality is constructed afterward by those who win. In the situation going on in Israel/Palestine, both sides are resolute they have no other home, so I still can see no solution.

Had a chance to go through the links above, the Spiked article had a clear view of what has developed.

"We are now witnessing the moral self-immolation of large swathes of the left. Too many are now marching side-by-side with Jew haters. They are lending their support to those who advocate theocratic violence and repression. And they are turning their backs on Enlightenment and modernity. They can dress all this up as ‘resistance’, hail it as ‘anti-imperialism’, or hang a rainbow flag on it and call it ‘progress’. But it’s nothing of the sort. It is a headlong embrace of barbarism."

I was taught during the early period of this process (90's), and as such the curriculum was still heavy on the economic marxism... Once you graduate you lose track of the academic thought if you don't work in the field - I missed the coagulation of the left and islamism.

Who is still at/working in a uni? What's it like on campus currently?

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 12:24pm
velocityjohnno wrote:

andy-mac - also the reality is constructed afterward by those who win. In the situation going on in Israel/Palestine, both sides are resolute they have no other home, so I still can see no solution.

Had a chance to go through the links above, the Spiked article had a clear view of what has developed.

"We are now witnessing the moral self-immolation of large swathes of the left. Too many are now marching side-by-side with Jew haters. They are lending their support to those who advocate theocratic violence and repression. And they are turning their backs on Enlightenment and modernity. They can dress all this up as ‘resistance’, hail it as ‘anti-imperialism’, or hang a rainbow flag on it and call it ‘progress’. But it’s nothing of the sort. It is a headlong embrace of barbarism."

I was taught during the early period of this process (90's), and as such the curriculum was still heavy on the economic marxism... Once you graduate you lose track of the academic thought if you don't work in the field - I missed the coagulation of the left and islamism.

Who is still at/working in a uni? What's it like on campus currently?

Yep strange bedfellows indeed, left progressives and Islamic extremism.
Saying that I don't really know what is meant by 'left' now, or 'right' as they seem to be changing. The whole woke things does my head in on either side of the coin, but probably as on wrong side of 50.
Similar thing kind of happening with the health/wellness mob and right wing, some strange pairings there.
I did my undergrad in 90's and was more interested in going surfing in my spare time than student politics, did some post grad 10 years or so ago and Uni I was at was not really very politically active.
Too many Ism's for people to argue about.
As you mentioned above, neither side are going to be going anywhere so really only a viable 2 state solution is the answer to try and end the cyclic violence.
Possible?
Doesn't look positive.

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 12:44pm
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

To all who advocate for further violence regardless of which side. That includes you and your stupid mates above.

Ps..I don’t advocate for further violence. I do want the whole thing to end with as few a deaths as possible. However the real world doesn’t work as simplistically as you and/or your mates above think it does.

Peace won’t come about if Israel ceases all actions against Hamas.

What do you think creates a terrorist.

In a successful conflict resolution nobody should be happy and nobody should be dying.

You think Israeli’s increased military activity will bring peace?

Hate, indoctrination, religion, economics, corruption and more creates terrorism.

No, I don’t think Israelis increased military action will bring peace, however, Israel is only defending itself from Palestinian aggression and the 3rd worst terrorist attack since the 1970s. And if Israel does nothing terrorist acts against them will only continue. Hamas and the majority of those in Gaza don’t want peace.

adam12's picture
adam12's picture
adam12 Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 12:55pm


Whilst we debate this situation in Gaza, it is important to note that these type of things can arise anywhere.
Above is a link to a jihad being declared in the United States.
The footage is disturbing but worth watching through to the end.
It is only two minutes.
Would be interested in getting some thoughts on the situation.

southernraw's picture
southernraw's picture
southernraw Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 1:17pm
Roadkill wrote:
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

To all who advocate for further violence regardless of which side. That includes you and your stupid mates above.

Ps..I don’t advocate for further violence. I do want the whole thing to end with as few a deaths as possible. However the real world doesn’t work as simplistically as you and/or your mates above think it does.

Peace won’t come about if Israel ceases all actions against Hamas.

What do you think creates a terrorist.

In a successful conflict resolution nobody should be happy and nobody should be dying.

You think Israeli’s increased military activity will bring peace?

Hamas and the majority of those in Gaza don’t want peace.

Care to elaborate on this little gem of knowledge? The majority of Palestinian people in Gaza dont want peace?? Are you actually fucking serious. What planet do you live on to say that?
Where did you get that information from?
Links?
Sounds like a Roadkill 6oclock slurp of generalisation and divisive tactics to me.

garyg1412's picture
garyg1412's picture
garyg1412 Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 1:18pm
adam12 wrote:

https://twitter.com/PhilipL47837986/status/1725985768521297974
Whilst we debate this situation in Gaza, it is important to note that these type of things can arise anywhere.
Above is a link to a jihad being declared in the United States.
The footage is disturbing but worth watching through to the end.
It is only two minutes.
Would be interested in getting some thoughts on the situation.

I wonder if they are related to green room??

Rabbits68's picture
Rabbits68's picture
Rabbits68 Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 1:24pm
adam12 wrote:

https://twitter.com/PhilipL47837986/status/1725985768521297974
Whilst we debate this situation in Gaza, it is important to note that these type of things can arise anywhere.
Above is a link to a jihad being declared in the United States.
The footage is disturbing but worth watching through to the end.
It is only two minutes.
Would be interested in getting some thoughts on the situation.

Haha! Classic alright. To paraphrase Jim Jefferies "lets give these people some guns and see how it turns out!"......

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 1:26pm

Adam 12 I'm usually good to entertain a conspiracy theory so I'm thinking paid actors.

garyg1412's picture
garyg1412's picture
garyg1412 Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 1:29pm
velocityjohnno wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

BTW. Lets not forget thousands of innocent Germans died destroying Hitler and the Nazis, if that war happened today we would have the same people saying too many civilian's are dying the war needs to stop now and if the war wasn't completed and the Nazis and hitler not destroyed, history would now be very different.

Indo, the most horrific damage to the German people occurred after the war ended.

https://www.amazon.com/Hellstorm-Death-Nazi-Germany-1944-1947-ebook/dp/B...

https://barnesreview.org/product/hellstorm-the-death-of-nazi-germany-194...

A protip for Australians if the simmering conflicts of the world escalate: don't lose.

Another terrifying read on that period

https://www.amazon.com.au/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-World/dp/125...

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 1:32pm

great suggestion garyg1412

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 1:35pm
adam12 wrote:

https://twitter.com/PhilipL47837986/status/1725985768521297974
Whilst we debate this situation in Gaza, it is important to note that these type of things can arise anywhere.
Above is a link to a jihad being declared in the United States.
The footage is disturbing but worth watching through to the end.
It is only two minutes.
Would be interested in getting some thoughts on the situation.

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023 at 1:46pm
southernraw wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
goofyfoot wrote:

Ok bro

Is the question not valid, goofy?

Where does the responsibility lie for innocent child deaths?

To all who advocate for further violence regardless of which side. That includes you and your stupid mates above.

Ps..I don’t advocate for further violence. I do want the whole thing to end with as few a deaths as possible. However the real world doesn’t work as simplistically as you and/or your mates above think it does.

Peace won’t come about if Israel ceases all actions against Hamas.

What do you think creates a terrorist.

In a successful conflict resolution nobody should be happy and nobody should be dying.

You think Israeli’s increased military activity will bring peace?

Hamas and the majority of those in Gaza don’t want peace.

Care to elaborate on this little gem of knowledge? The majority of Palestinian people in Gaza dont want peace?? Are you actually fucking serious. What planet do you live on to say that?
Where did you get that information from?
Links?
Sounds like a Roadkill 6oclock slurp of generalisation and divisive tactics to me.

6 questions demanded by southernraw..

However…using your own words…..would love to answer your question, iyd actually not difficult to answer, but...ahh..nah, fuck ya.