The United States(!) of A

FFS VL, you could have left the last sentence out.

It could also be said that the left on here don't lean to their values of tolerance and diversity.

Just stick to the convo and leave out the BS..

.

AndyM, Do you seriously think Donald Trump will go quietly if the votes don't fall in his favour? He's already said a Democratic win is not legitimate and said he will go to the Supreme Court.
This is seriously scary. There's no good outcome from this point in time. Biden win with extreme violence, or Trump win with violence and four more years of insanity.

Vic, the conversation has been whether Trump is a fascist.

You've clearly attended Blindboy's School of Appealing to Emotion.

I guess we are about the find out the depths of Trumps so-called fascist tendencies.

if he truly does try and subvert a peaceful democratic transition of power then all bets are off.

Yep, we'll soon see.

And depends on the subversion. He's consistently been illiberal, but if he presents a true challenge to constitutional democracy, that starts to go down a different road.

I had a fun surf yesterday but spent the morning jumping at shadows. Glassy and grey and when the tide filled in, jagged a few nice sets. Only three of us out.

For the first time in years a 4m bitey was spotted in the same spot two days ago. Word had got around.

Sorry, USA USA.

That was a quick root Andy. Shouldn't you be somewhere else by now?

Don't forget to brush your teeth.

Waiting for the call Zen.

Brush and floss the teeth, but first an all-over scrub with exfoliating gloves.

And it's never just a quick root with Andy.

AndyM, If Trump stops vote counting to remain in power, or doesn't allow a peaceful transition if he loses, then yes, he is a fascist.

You need to have another look at the meaning of fascist or fascism.

If he builds up mass-mobilising parties and paramilitary organisations, and establishes a single-party dictatorship, then we can talk.

Appealing to the courts is not the traditional route of fascists.

Like Andy said , it’s an unattractive interpretation of statesmanship but as long as he operates within the legal framework and the constitution of the US then it’s hardly fascism .

It's not actually possible, he has to go through the states first. It defies belief the POTUS wouldn't know that and could say something so outlandish.

I don't know what to categorise what he's done, it ain't fascism nor statesmanship however unattractive.

Trumpism?

Rubbish blowin as usual.
Undermining the judicial system is a key component in the advancement of fascism, and Trump has been doing that big time.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/26/donald-trumps-bromides...
Have a look at other key features of a fascist and see if you can spot trump doing any of them
https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
AndyM have a look at those 14 points. I have Trump doing 13 of them.

Outlandish conspiracy : What are the odds that Trump has been operating under duress of some pharmaceutical cocktail the last few days and the stress of the situation compounded with his prescriptions is sending him slightly batty ?

The last four days of 5 big conventions a day would test anyone let alone a tubby septuagenarian who looks like he exists on a diet primarily procured from a certain Scottish sounding fast food chain. To quote William Shatner : “ I’ve seen less bloated men pulled from rivers “ . I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d resorted to a bit of chemical engineering to get him over the line. A lot of energy required.

Chances of him getting fully wound out and his hair unravelling like Bill Murray’s in Kingpin - Very high .

Nope.

Trump is neither authoritarian or fascist.

The votes have just dropped in Wisconsin and Biden is now ahead. That's why Trump has been trying to stop the vote count.
Huge turnaround.

Vic, disparaging the press is not the same as eliminating the role of a free press.

"the Trump administration has not yet destroyed the rule of law."

Indeed.

As for the second link, the vast majority of those points are pretty standard in a modern western kleptocracy, including Australia. From memory I've pointed this out before.

This doesn't mean Australia is a fascist state or that Trump is by definition a fascist although of course a lot of those points are cause for real concern.

so who's gunna win?

Biden, just.

Not democracy.

No idea. Who do you reckon Goofy ?

The only certainty already evident is that the polls have again proven themselves to be utterly useless at predicting the outcome of an election. Whether this is through incompetence or something more sinister is another story.

I have a feeling Trump. Seems like he still has plenty of supporters.

Wisconsin not yet decided.

It still appears that almost 200 million Americans didn’t even vote . Laziness ? Despondency ? Lackadaisicalness ? Disinterest ? The sad realisation that none of it makes a lick of difference ?

Real democracy took a hike in the U.S. some time ago.

Kanye West with a late run?

Ahhh yeah, apologies for that immature comment. You blokes have been taking this issue very seriously all afternoon by the looks & rightfully so.

Here’s to democracy. Hip Hip!

I haven't Rabs.

I'm just pleased Andy is pulling in.

Just don't think of Trump Andy or it's all over.

Haha! Yeah that casual mention of scoring a root did catch my eye. Lucky prick Andy. Go well mate!

I'm calling it. Biden will win off the back of Wisconsin and Michigan.
Trump fans need to put the AK 15s away and take the election loss with some dignity.

Trump openly declares Autocracy as the best form of government.
He openly admires all world dictators & truly wants to be America's Dictator.
Trump pushes for 3rd term & on- sets Presidential limit of 25 years > (Monarchy)
https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending-now/trump-supporters-may-dema...
Old News! He is never ever vacating Trump's Whitehouse...Ever!

10 June International Bar Association - Source: Goitein/Posner... (thanx facto..)
The Morning after Election Day...(Great Paper poses the question before us!)
https://www.ibanet.org/Article/NewDetail.aspx?ArticleUid=973EB8DD-DCED-4...

*How can America's dictator evoke Marshall Law without interfering in an election.

1) Trump: "The Supreme Court decision on voting in Pennsylvania is a VERY dangerous one. It will allow rampant and unchecked cheating and will undermine our entire systems of laws. It will also induce violence in the streets, Something must be done!
2 "We are up BIG, but they are trying to STEAL the election. We will never let them do it. Votes cannot be cast after the Poles (Polls) are closed." + "This is a major fraud in our nation, we want the law to be used in a proper manner. So, we will be going to the Supreme Court. We want all voting to stop. We don't want them to find any ballot at 4 o'clock in the morning and add them to the list."

Prez' emergency electoral safety tweets were sabotaged by enemy propaganda.

Prez can now deploy National Guard > Communication + Post + Internet + Curfews

Goitein / Posner say Trump won't call in the National Guard.

However Trump has positioned National Guard in 25 states + White House Walls

Election night.(Comment)
President: "We don't want them to find any ballot at 4 o'clock in the morning..."
Most believe Trump is referring to a default o/n Booth timeline...(Unsure of that!)

Everything Trump says stirs shit but "4 o'clock in the morning"! Wot even is that?

( Some weird ass National Treasure clue! )

Part one (Overnight)
Covid- Postal go slow on ballots / Lockdowns / Curfews / Nat Guard (Tick Tick Tick)
Supreme Court Order..Rep' Judges will Stamp President's Covid Marshal Law Poll.

Hang On! Poll Booths don't open until (7:am) never as early as (4:am)
+ Supreme Court Order to stop Vote Counting at the Poll Booth is illegal anyway?

tbb ran some searches & then some more & dug up the next Marshal Law clue.
"Postal Letter carriers begin delivery as early as 4:00 am" (Bingo!)

Perhaps evoking Marshal Law & Sending in National Guard to secure Post Ballots.
No! Not invading Poll Booths but by cutting off supply in Post Offices (Lawful).
Trump's Republican Post Governors will be trusted to secure or lose or void them.

These Ballots shall be protected until each State's vote count expiry date.
Or such a time deemed safe by Republican Supreme Court...(Day after expire date?)
As with Covid Tests each Republican Governor will oversee the securing of votes.

Trump's (lite) Marshal Law never once interferes with US voting process.
tbb is just having a crack at solving the 4:am mystery!
There is no update on troops moving in to Postal Services...

However Postal Service point blank refused Judges order to sweep for lost ballots.
Postal Service open act of defiance from highest court order will heat things up.
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2095483493254/usps-failed-to-complete-swe...
tbb can't rule out the Postal Service being instrumental to Trump's End Game.

Looks like the USA is going to go back to kissing Chinas' arse and back to another war in the middle east :(

I didn't realise so many surfers were bootlickers and apologists for fascist scum.

This has been a fucking wild read.

It's a pretty small number yvdreh. Only about 5 posters, and 3-4 real humans.

Yeah it seems there's only a small number on here who actually know what fascism really is.

At it already Andy?

I thought you'd be basking in that post-coital glow?

You're such a rogue Zen.

Everything I've read and seen over the last few days adds further support to my theory that the right of politics are the fiercest defenders of the law, political convention and civility right up to the nano second that it doesn't suit them and then everything gets trashed. Trump's speech and behaviour and that of his camp since the election is nothing short of astounding and is the polar opposite of principles of democracy.

Ahhh, info does it again, never fails always wanting to please, you old goat fancier

Looks like Antifa has won the US election. Bummer for Indo.

'Why Trump Can't Afford To Lose'

"The President has survived one impeachment, twenty-six accusations of sexual misconduct, and an estimated four thousand lawsuits. That run of good luck may well end, perhaps brutally, if Joe Biden wins."

It's from The New Yorker, so read it with whatever goggles fit your bias, but there are some staggering quotes and facts in there, as well as a few theories worth mulling over.

Looks like Rudy Giuliani got his hat mixed up with his pants last week but nonetheless finally pulled that rabbit out this morning which seemed to verge on insanity but was hilarious nonetheless.

Yep yvdreh. It's disgusting. Guy, nailed it.

Bookies are starting to pay out on a Biden win.
Trump's mob should start looking for good criminal lawyers.
Oh, and my mum told me not to gloat, but on this occasion I think I will: suck shit Info, blowin, and all you other folk who have cheered on that Orange insult to democracy over the years.
Sit back and watch multiple member of Trump's administration team go to jail over the next few years.

@Adam

You wait you will be one of the first to start whinging when Trump supporters start doing exactly the same thing that BLM (burn loot murder) and that Fascist group Antifa have been doing for months.

Counting down to the hypocrisy we will see here.

@stunet

Blowin had the same request yesterday, i think in part of his deleted post.

But can we seriously have a reset here and start getting rid of these straight out trolls that are just basically pointless insults or abuse and not on topic at all.

If i reply with the same, it never ends but there is only so many times i can bite my lip.

Hahaha! You're a gas indo. That's regarding your previous post btw. But let's look into your BLM murder people claim.

https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-199...

I do believe there's been one murder attributed to your favourite boogiemen, Antifa since this article, but it's a good start if you'd like to change your view.

From Jeff Lang:

"I truly hope that Biden can build bridges to reconnect with people who didn’t vote for him in the current election.

"I’m not talking about necessarily getting their votes next time around.

"I’m talking about the US not being so deeply and bitterly divided.

"I’ve spent a lot of time touring and playing shows in the US, though not in the last few years. But when I did it was playing in the folk music circuit for the most part. It’d be difficult to imagine more of a lefty bubble really, but my experiences weren’t entirely within the confines of a world where everyone agreed with me, comforting though that might’ve been.

"I played plenty of places where I was distinctly in the minority with my lefty views, and the people I met weren’t monsters. They were kind, friendly, warm hearted people, who I disagreed with politically. Not monsters. It’s worth remembering that.

"Things have definitely become more volatile over there. And while I do believe Trump has been a driving force in widening the divide, a lot of the people voting for him have their reasons that aren’t dependent on agreeing with literally everything he says and does. I mightn’t agree completely with their reasons, but they have them. And this election has shown again that there is a lot more of them than many on the left would like to admit.

"Trump is likely to lose it seems. His supporters are all going to still be there. Biden has pledged that if he wins he’ll be a President for everyone, not just the people who voted for him. I hope this comes to pass."

Read this from Ilona Harker. It’s good:

"Few years back I stumbled across a Republican rally in Raton, New Mexico in a local mountain bar. I was in Raton for a few days after a fast paced trip through Texas sniffin' out a Townes Van Zandt trail. So there I was having meal and chatting away to friendly locals and reciting Australian bush poetry when I met the Republican candidate for State Governor. I have no recollection of his name. I just knew, that he knew, that I wasn't one of them but he came and dutifully yet cautiously greeted me, as I was introduced by the lovely towns folk of Raton.

"I guess that was because I was the anomaly. A strange Australian in a small town in New Mexico whose history is pretty notable.

"Raton was the ONLY way to pass from Mexico up north for centuries on the Santa Fe trail, until another way way found further west.

"So after the awkward meeting of the main republican honcho I kept talking the locals and met a few of the republican voters and to be honest, they were really kind and considerate.

"Nothing like what you see in footage of Trump rallies on the news. The man who was hosting the event asked me if I could come back and teach art at the school as they needed teachers. I explained I wasn't a teacher nor was I really aligned with his politics.

"He didn't care. He said he could tell I was a good person and they needed good young people in the town.

"Seemed like not many people came through and loved it as much as I did.

"There were many shops no longer open and bordered up but it was such a gosh darn pretty town surrounded by so much wild country and EVERYONE had guns and it kinda made sense they did. The poverty was hushed by pride and yet I saw a desperation in that town. A town forgotten by many who saw them as insignificant now.

"I still think about Raton and the people and I wish they had leader who could see them as I see them.

"As good people who are trying to hold their town and pride together.

"Here's a cover of Townes song Snowing on Raton by Gillian Welsh and David Rawlings:"

Yeah OK, was gonna bring attention to this yesterday....the ad hominem attacks that is. They've gotta stop. Everyone's feeling invested in what's happening over there so win with grace, lose with grace, and focus on issues not people.

Read the above posts for inspiration. Listen to Gillian and David while you're there.

Indo, Trump fans aren't going to burn and loot. That's the tactics of people with nothing to lose.
When you own the castle, you don't loot, you shoot. And that's the real danger here. Trump's heavily armed cult followers taking things into their own hands because they incorrectly believe they've been robbed, is very probable.
Trump's speech and actions during the count have been disgraceful.

One of my favourite Townes songs that stu. Beautiful.