The United States(!) of A
Everyday we hear more and more.
Trump voting farmers still not willing to face reality. ”we need to give him time”
> Trump is going against as I pointed out earlier the very pillars of Western democracy. Rule of law, human rights, separation of powers etc etc.
> Government forcing universities to teach and follow State determined ideology also has nothing to do with Western Civilization.
You describe the globalist progressive bloc perfectly, particularly the US Democrats. How many pages would you want me to write on it...
But on universities, I have kept one foot in the door of Western universities for 25 years, and since 2017 also Chinese universities. I have witnessed first hand the ideological transformation and degeneration of Western universities from being relatively non-ideological institutions focused on the pursuit of science, reason, factual knowledge and understanding, to nowadays overwhelmingly becoming progressive run and dominated highly extreme left ideological institutions which are ground zero for anti-Western culture and civilisation indoctrination.
The statistics of the ratio of progressive vs conservative university management and board staff, administrative staff and lecturing/research staff in Western universities is like 20:1. Actually, I believe it's even more extreme than that.
Trump is also at war with this extreme left progressive ideological transformation and outright destruction of Western universities. He is trying to return them to ideological neutrality, science, reason and the pure pursuit of knowledge and truth - to institutions which have a positive impact on their Western societies and nations instead of trying to tear them apart and destroy them.
I could write entire pages of this forum thread on my observations from 25 years of involvement in Western universities.
Lol
To me at least, the number one defining characteristic of western civilization is independence and freedom of thought, and subsequent action. This holds for individuals and institutions alike.
A government controlling universities, what they teach, who they hire and their internal governance because it doesn't like the way they exercise this independence and freedom of thought is the antithesis of western civilization.
Surprises me this needs to be pointed out.
lol
The extreme left progressive ideological destruction of Western universities has been directed from the top down.
There is nothing independent about it. It's not the result of expression of free thought and independence.
Universities are not free and independent institutions. They never have been. They have never been free to pursue whatever aims they like. They exist to serve the communities and nations in which they are located. Government has always provided significant funding for and had significant influence and control over universities, including Ivy Leagues.
DEI has been the main hiring tool used to exclude conservatives and saturate universities with progressives.
Surprises me that this needs to be pointed out.
LMAO, you need to stop drinking the cool-aide.
haha, what a weirdo. gotta be a fun troll (@wilhelm?) with the different gs co spelling. @gsco had problems, @gsco-mk2 seemed a little saner. this just sounds like a string of jargon-nonsense from an entitled someone who never got what they felt they deserved in life..
Hmmmm.
I think I still believe organised religion still has a role as long as people need to channel their waywardly over-interesting thoughts into some sort of something. happy easter m'honkies.
gs-co wrote:> Trump is going against as I pointed out earlier the very pillars of Western democracy. Rule of law, human rights, separation of powers etc etc.
> Government forcing universities to teach and follow State determined ideology also has nothing to do with Western Civilization.You describe the globalist progressive bloc perfectly, particularly the US Democrats. How many pages would you want me to write on it...
But on universities, I have kept one foot in the door of Western universities for 25 years, and since 2017 also Chinese universities. I have witnessed first hand the ideological transformation and degeneration of Western universities from being relatively non-ideological institutions focused on the pursuit of science, reason, factual knowledge and understanding, to nowadays overwhelmingly becoming progressive run and dominated highly extreme left ideological institutions which are ground zero for anti-Western culture and civilisation indoctrination.
The statistics of the ratio of progressive vs conservative university management and board staff, administrative staff and lecturing/research staff in Western universities is like 20:1. Actually, I believe it's even more extreme than that.
Trump is also at war with this extreme left progressive ideological transformation and outright destruction of Western universities. He is trying to return them to ideological neutrality, science, reason and the pure pursuit of knowledge and truth - to institutions which have a positive impact on their Western societies and nations instead of trying to tear them apart and destroy them.
I could write entire pages of this forum thread on my observations from 25 years of involvement in Western universities.
Why do think this has happened?
It seems to have happened all across the western world USA, UK, Aust etc
BTW. Good to see some sanity in UK this week.
"UK Supreme Court rules that law defines a woman as someone born biologically female
The UK Supreme Court has ruled that a woman is someone born biologically female, excluding transgender people from the legal definition.
Five judges unanimously ruled "biological sex" is what defines a woman, according to law"
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-16/uk-supreme-court-defines-woman-to...
basesix wrote:I think I still believe organised religion still has a role as long as people need to channel their waywardly over-interesting thoughts into some sort of something. happy easter m'honkies.
Considering what people are grabbing onto as alternatives, organised religion could be preferable.
Nearly 1 billion in reported savings has been removed from the DOGE website / reporting channels.
Most of the savings reported a BS with approximately zero evidence.
Yet..stupid people still believe Trump and Musk are legitimate leaders.
Dumb dumb dumb dumb…dumb dumb duuuuuummmmb.
what are you talking about? a guy called kevin who thinks he's tori? fark me.. they certainly have you focussed on the big issues, ha.. nothing in the above claptrap has to do with western civilisation. It's smokey words to hide fundamental xenophobia. I'm sure @etarip/@flollo/@RK (and all the other mildly conservatives centrists who think western civilisation is fine, we just need to manage the world better..) would agree. What do people like @gsco think The West is?
..I think of western culture (at its best) as the Mediterranean diet, proper medicine, classical and rock music, transparent democracy, peer reviewed sciences, Latin and Greek based language and philosophy, church/state separation, rule of law and egalitarian rights... I mean western civilisation is astoundingly globally dominant in most areas..
(many of these not exclusively western obviously, and have been hard won after centuries of class systems, human rights abuses and monarchies).. America is currently fucking with several of these things.. why the fanboy-ism? I really don't get it, what western-ness are we losing? who's taking it? the left? listening to tards banging on about marxism infecting our institutions just makes me feel mentally ill, just reading such guff..
“I think I still believe” :)
Gday Indo.
It happened because conservatives fell asleep at the wheel. It even happened right under their noses, while they were in government.
It has been a long, calculated strategy by the progressives - the global left - to infiltrate, saturate and dominate public institutions, including universities. Feminism, DEI hiring, immigration, rewriting history, infiltrating all levels of education, undermining Christianity, etc, have been their playbook for decades.
The left learnt the lessons of the Reagan, Thatcher, Howard, etc, years. They learnt that political power is downstream from culture. And culture is controlled by education. And education is decided at the unelected bureaucracy level. Hence, they were able to infiltrate government at the unelected bureaucracy level, and exert significant influence - quietly chipping away with the progressive agenda in the background for decades - even while conservatives were in power. E.g. Democrat infiltration of primary school education pushing the trans agenda is out of control in the US. That's how it happened.
In many ways, the conservatives were idiotic and blind. Deaf, dumb and stupid.
Quite simply, the left won the culture war. They started it in the 60s and 70s. The conservatives only realised there was even such a thing in the mid-late 2010s.
That's why we see progressives in power across the whole EU and nearly all other Western countries.
It's why there is so much opposition to Trump: the whole globalist progressive establishment, its wealthy elite backers, and its global media apparatus, have all swung into gear to undermine the Trump Republican agenda.
There is a very good book that describes the UK situation in clear detail, how it all happened there:
The Long March: How the left won the culture war and what to do about it.
https://www.newcultureforum.org.uk/_files/ugd/e42793_a246d5d7f7d94e569ad...
The situations in the EU and Canada echo the UK situation very closely.
and the strength in the right lies in their astounding epistemology and ability to not-quite-fit-in with real boys. (haha, pleeeese be @Chelsea 2.0!)
@indo
"Why do think this has happened?"
It didn't. Old mate is way off the mark.
Universities have always been progressive because research and education is a progressive exercise.
Research is specifically focused on solving problems in society not denying them. That means specifically looking at what society is doing and challenging that as the best way to do something. Whether in science or humanities. And that's a progressive exercise.
As a result, universities have always employed the progressives of their time.
What has happened now is that the media has become far more polarised and has stoked far more fear of progress than ever before. As a result, you get an apparently conservative government in the US abandoning its principles of freedom of speech to shut down thought it doesn't like.
lol benskii you're mistaking progress in science and human knowledge with neo-marxist progressive political and cultural ideology. The word "progress" here has no relation at all to the word "progressive". You just went full retard. Never go full retard.
: )
gs-co wrote:Gday Indo.
It happened because conservatives fell asleep at the wheel. It even happened right under their noses, while they were in government.
It has been a long, calculated strategy by the progressives - the global left - to infiltrate, saturate and dominate public institutions, including universities. Feminism, DEI hiring, immigration, rewriting history, infiltrating all levels of education, undermining Christianity, etc, have been their playbook for decades.
The left learnt the lessons of the Reagan, Thatcher, Howard, etc, years. They learnt that political power is downstream from culture. And culture is controlled by education. And education is decided at the unelected bureaucracy level. Hence, they were able to infiltrate government at the unelected bureaucracy level, and exert significant influence - quietly chipping away with the progressive agenda in the background for decades - even while conservatives were in power. E.g. Democrat infiltration of primary school education pushing the trans agenda is out of control in the US. That's how it happened.
In many ways, the conservatives were idiotic and blind. Deaf, dumb and stupid.
Quite simply, the left won the culture war. They started it in the 60s and 70s. The conservatives only realised there was even such a thing in the mid-late 2010s.
That's why we see progressives in power across the whole EU and nearly all other Western countries.
It's why there is so much opposition to Trump: the whole globalist progressive establishment, its wealthy elite backers, and its global media apparatus, have all swung into gear to undermine the Trump Republican agenda.
There is a very good book that describes the UK situation in clear detail, how it all happened there:
The Long March: How the left won the culture war and what to do about it.
https://www.newcultureforum.org.uk/_files/ugd/e42793_a246d5d7f7d94e569ad...
The situations in the EU and Canada echo the UK situation very closely.
The middle east Islamic influence on universities in the USA is scary.
"Between 2001 and 2021, Qatar contributed $4.7 billion to six prestigious American universities. However, Qatar isn't alone in this trend; between 1986 and 2022 Arab States have donated $11 billion. The highest donors include the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan, Syria, and Lebanon, who all have made substantial donations to American universities. But why would these mostly small Arab states like Qatar care so much about American education?"
Indo, and the Chinese influence.
This line of argument from gs-co certainly has that “we had to destroy the village to save it” vibe, attributed to a US Army officer in Vietnam.
Trump isn’t saving anyone, bar himself. This is a holy crusade. And who the hell appointed him and his goons as our saviours? Not even a majority of American voters.
Ahh etarip, forever faithful to the Lowy Institute
gs-co wrote:Ahh etarip, forever faithful to the Lowy Institute
^ hahaha, that is the best sentence ever.. I'm imagining it from a very ineffective baddy..
while he has the kids tied up briefly, in an 80s after school telly show.
preferably in an ep where a mud-brick might be a marxist plant to corrupt kids,
suggesting it takes a mix of ideas to create strong social cohesion..
Infinity Limited - Thick as a Brick
benskii wrote:@indo
"Why do think this has happened?"
It didn't. Old mate is way off the mark.
Universities have always been progressive because research and education is a progressive exercise.
Research is specifically focused on solving problems in society not denying them. That means specifically looking at what society is doing and challenging that as the best way to do something. Whether in science or humanities. And that's a progressive exercise.
As a result, universities have always employed the progressives of their time.
What has happened now is that the media has become far more polarised and has stoked far more fear of progress than ever before. As a result, you get an apparently conservative government in the US abandoning its principles of freedom of speech to shut down thought it doesn't like.
Benskii. I agree mate.
Gasco drinking his own bath water, again. Geez you write some tripe, are you getting all your information from a dicktation machine, cos someone is feeding you a length. AW
gs-co wrote:Ahh etarip, forever faithful to the Lowy Institute
Zinger!
Go see someone mate. You’re unhinged. Seriously.
>
"Trump is also at war with this extreme left progressive ideological transformation and outright destruction of Western universities. He is trying to return them to ideological neutrality, science, reason and the pure pursuit of knowledge and truth - to institutions which have a positive impact on their Western societies and nations instead of trying to tear them apart and destroy them."Really, gs-co? Trump is into the pure pursuit of knowledge and truth.... that's one of the more laughable comments I've read in these pages, and that's some achievement.
Winner of the cookers award today goes to gsco....
Crikey mate, did you get dumped by a pretty Chinese girl in the past?
ringostarr][quote=gs-co wrote:>
"Trump is also at war with this extreme left progressive ideological transformation and outright destruction of Western universities. He is trying to return them to ideological neutrality, science, reason and the pure pursuit of knowledge and truth - to institutions which have a positive impact on their Western societies and nations instead of trying to tear them apart and destroy them."Really, gs-co? Trump is into the pure pursuit of knowledge and truth.... that's one of the more laughable comments I've read in these pages, and that's some achievement.
Trump the blokes who claims he never read a book?
lotsa people don't read books @andy-mac. don't pity them, they have leaders, and the leaders are not fuckwits, but simply the pole around which fuckwits dance (and they have little squirrely scholars that nibble around the edges, but never actually complete their post-grad awards and then blame the corrupt marxist fluid-sapping universities).
Desperate Opportunistic Rap Thing - Roseanne and Awkward (2025)
basesix wrote:lotsa people don't read books @andy-mac. don't pity them, they have leaders, and the leaders are not fuckwits, but simply the pole around which fuckwits dance (and they have little squirrely scholars that nibble around the edges, but never actually complete their post-grad awards and then blame the corrupt marxist fluid-sapping universities).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb7fAEQaJwE
Desperate Opportunistic Rap Thing - Roseanne and Awkward (2025)
WTF was that....???
Trying to get my head around if that was serious or a piss take...
Geez never been into rap, but that was horrendous.
What happened to the USA?
Grateful Dead, Jefferson, Dylan, Buddy Holly, Eddie Cochrane, Elvis, Skynard, BB King, Springsteen, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Social Distortion, Dead Kennedys, James Taylor, Carol King, Pearl Jam, etc etc
And now that....
Fark.....
Making America great again not related to music ey....
haha, yup. roseanne barr fucked up about something, racial from memory, which is inevitable because culturally the special usa west needs everyman unsophisticated heroes, "step, kick, god I hope I get it.. I hope I get it..!" and america prides itself on any idiot being eligible. and when those everyman heroes get older they get really shitty that it's the next idiots' turns and no-one thinks the last lot are wonderful anymore. I have no idea why there's a thing now where you can re-enact some kind of dukes of hazard klan thang, and yell at the democrats nastily about how they lost and sucked in... I have kinda lost track of what makes sense in the usa..
But, I think this was a power move professionally by an 80s comedian..?
From memory she wasn't very dignified in the 90s and didn't care what people thought.. so.. good..?
basesix wrote:haha, yup. roseanne barr fucked up about something, racial from memory, which is inevitable because culturally the special usa west needs everyman unsophisticated heroes, "step, kick, god I hope I get it.. I hope I get it..!" and america prides itself on any idiot being eligible. and when those everyman heroes get older they get really shitty that it's the next idiots' turns and no-one thinks the last lot are wonderful anymore. I have no idea why there's a thing now where you can re-enact some kind of dukes of hazard klan thang, and yell at the democrats nastily about how they lost and sucked in... I have kinda lost track of what makes sense in the usa..
But, I think this was a power move professionally by an 80s comedian..?
From memory she wasn't very dignified in the 90s and didn't care what people thought.. so.. good..?
Yep, an unfunny 80's comedian with some freak with bad face tatts doing a shit rap...
That will piss off the Lefty progressives!! Ha
@andy-mac, great list btw^
let's get back to posting the wonderful things that the USA has going for it, from Yellowstone NP to Janis Ian, and ignore the shitfuckyuk of the moment.. make America great again, here at least : )
basesix wrote:@andy-mac, great list btw^
let's get back to posting the wonderful things that the USA has going for it, from Yellowstone NP to Janis Ian, and ignore the shitfuckyuk of the moment.. make America great again, here at least : )
Cheers Base,
They were just off top of my head, so many great bands out of the USA. Rock n roll, blues and everything that came after could not of happened without the USA.
Wilco, Hendrix and Derek Trucks band just came to me as typing, so much great stuff culture wise from music, literature ( Steinbeck probably my favourite author of all time), to their film, TV .... geez being Australian growing up in 70's/ 80's, Seasame Street, Banana Splirs. Happy Days etc was also our childhood...
Hope they turn it around and get back to where they once were and what they stood for.
Progressive, free and upholder of human rights and noble ideals even if not always practiced....
Yep MAGA... just not Trump's great. :)
poifect.. meet you back here after the Sunday egg hunt
(our western pillars require that we observe this observance).
I'll get the torches and snacks, you get the talking flute..
basesix wrote:poifect.. meet you back here after the Sunday egg hunt
(our western pillars require that we observe this observance).
I'll get the torches and snacks, you get the talking flute..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMl6HnhFFIA
Haha... nice one
I spoke up straight after Trump was elected and stated, those in America who voted for Trump must be dumb c#nts. I got lamblasted on here, amongst the great minds...because the logic amongst the great minds, was...well what was American's other options? They didn't see much hope in the flailing democrats. Well. If you had even a quarter of a brain, you'd have seen that Trump was a criminal, with a history of deceit and manipulation. There is never an excuse for backing someone with those psychological traits. You'd have to be a dumb c#nt to not see where this would inevitably head. And yet here we are.
Here's Japans take on it. Yep, it's the Meidas touch. Dislike them all you will but they're the largest growing media outlet over there at the moment. Better than the bullshit that gets pushed back and forth on this thread by some. But continue your spurious analysis of American politics ye great minds.....you know who you are.
And to those that fight the good fight...you know who you are also. There's many of you here. Hats off. Where the fucks Jefffrey?? Better not have been silenced. Bloody hell.
World are now too scared to visit Trump's Mar-a-Loco Golf Hellhole in one of America
Heaps of EU / Canadian Tourists cuffed at Border being held in Detention Camps for Weeks > Months...
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-detention-of-european-and-canadia...
Dutto is Drooling > That's My kinda Dictator!
US Trump issues Travel Warnings to 70 Countries
Trump is also about to Ban Journos from 40 Countries
https://www.newsweek.com/travel-warning-journalists-entering-us-2061475
(Reciprocal US Bans / Warnings)
Countries now issuing US Travel Warnings / Bans :
China / Canada / UK / Ireland / Germany / Belgium / France / Denmark / Netherlands / Finland / Portugal
UK has 21 No Goes + 73 Alerts
https://www.nationalworld.com/travel/travel-news/foreign-office-warns-no...
All Nations now racing back to Covid Entry Detention Centres
Better have yer Vax Cards ready...
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tourism-pullback-and-boycotts-could-cost-u...
European Visitors are currently down 17%
Year on Year
-28% Germany -27% Island -25% Spain -15% South Korea -14%UK -8% France -7% Oz -4% India
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding...
US Summer > Euro Bookings down 25%
US Border Detention centres Up 25%
So who's Visiting...
Who do ya reckon..+23% Poland +19% Israel +12% Taiwan
Trumps Tourist Detention Camp Tours ...Luv that Versace Gold Razor Wire...must order some of that!
Holy Fuck People...Hell Hole of all 7 seas it now is...not worth spitting on!
USA Today [Don't Come to America]
https://www.usatoday.com/opinion/
Trump has triggered a return to Covid Era Detention Camps!
First the Economy now Travel Bans > Reopening Border Detention Centres...locking up tourists & Journos
New Qld [L] Govt : Gotta Pay yer Covid Hotel Fees...Premier is Waiting!
This Detention Centre Shit is alive and Kicking....in 54321....
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-24/queensland-covid-quarantine-hotel...
[ Breaking News...] Have a go at this...{Kaboom!}
Trump claims Chinese Lab Leak Covid Origin
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-admin-declares-china-lab-leak-true-origin...
Just like that...We're ALL back in The Border Camps...[ Lockdowns in 54321 ]
Better dust off yer Vax [ID] Cards.
List of Voter Poll Booths in Lockdown
Border Force Detain PM Albo / Greens Leader for Boosting without a Face Mask
Trump Mandates his pet monster Voldemort to Win Unwinnable Oz Election by default.
A bit of muscle flexing and showing who’s in their corner .
Quoting Tropic Thunder while describing some orchestrated campaign by "the left" and dropping terms like neo-marxism without a hint of irony...I'll leave you to it mate.
But if you happen to know how to get into the planning meetings of this calculating global left, do let me know. They'd probably be interesting to attend.
It’s obvious, isn’t it? Davos. I’m sure you’d fit right in with the rest of the globalists trying to avert democracy and freedom.
ahhh davos
going all out to maintain the globalist status quo neoliberal order...
throwing pennys to various openly identifying inspired ngo's to keep them busy, entertained, and occupied, ...stirring the petty greviance pot...
whilst peddling climate catasrophism to fear the plebs into accepting their 'own nothing' digital feudalism destiny
whilst the billionaires, political, academic, and legacy media class continue their life as usual, business as usual...
denialism
but yeh, gs-co is the delusional one...
errr... ok...
can we drop the left v right shit yet?
seriously!
I know the various 'labour' parties are no longer the parties of labour and shit...
ie. class politics
but they aren't left either...
speaking of davos...
the wef, neoliberalism, the corruption of institutions, the cult of the globalists, class warfare, general bullshit, gross bullshit, corporate servitude, institutional failure, the propaganda peddling media industrial complex...
and denialism
well well well...
https://www.whitehouse.gov/lab-leak-true-origins-of-covid-19/
sypkan wrote:ahhh davos
going all out to maintain the globalist status quo neoliberal order...
throwing pennys to various openly identifying inspired ngo's to keep them busy, entertained, and occupied, ...stirring the petty greviance pot...
whilst peddling climate catasrophism to fear the plebs into accepting their 'own nothing' digital feudalism destiny
whilst the billionaires, political, academic, and legacy media class continue their life as usual, business as usual...
denialism
but yeh, gs-co is the delusional one...
errr... ok...
Not the only delusional one it seems....
it doesn't have to be an either / or andymac
it just is...
through a natural development, of sorts
progression if you will...
I think it was benski that explained the how and why
whether the outcomes are acceptable or not... comes down to the democracy bit...
or not...
Ah, the billionaires!
Which ones?
The evil ones in are in Davos and the good ones are in the Trump Admin*.
But they’re fighting for YOU! The common man. The battlers. Believe us….
Irony 10/10. Solid.
Right, Got it. Fuck you cunts are delusional.
* Which is has 16 billionaires in it
"Which ones?"
all of them!
it's the gross inequality that is half of the problem...
all of it?
3/4 of it...
the gross wealth shift we've all witnessed, and the outsourcing of government responsibility...
the neoliberalism
that the so called 'progressives' will defend vehemently...
(even as the last vestige of truth slips away...)
choose your billionaire...
'progressive' versus ....
even hollywood thinks we're in hunger games territory...
"Earth to Jeff Bezos’ Blue Origin: This week’s fleeting space launch featuring an all-female crew was a wasteful, performative and tone-deaf endeavor reminiscent of the “Hunger Games” dystopia — according to author, model and actor Emily Ratajkowski."
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2025-04-15/blue-origin-...
The billionaires are not even the ones who are the problem.
Davos/WEF is just a bunch of progressives sitting around plotting how to do away with the two pillars of freedom and prosperity - namely democracy and capitalism - and replace them with their new world order of global tyranny in the form “stakeholder capitalism”.
This is just rule by unelected progressive elites who think they’re superior to the everyday citizen serf peasant pleb like you and me. So they think they should be in charge and calling the shots on planet earth. We are all uneducated racist redneck bogans. Just ask basesix.
But don’t worry, the progressives’ global tyranny will be different to all the others - they’ll be benevolent and make decisions in the interests of everyone, not just themselves. It will all be a lovey dovey fuckfest of eco cult communist utopia like never seen before.
It certainly won’t end in concentration camps, mass slaughter and human suffering like every previous dictatorship has. It’ll be free love like the 70s again!
And double don’t worry, their progressive dictatorship won’t be anything like Europe under the EC…they’ll actually get their globalist tyrannical utopia right this time.
And triple don’t worry, they’ll exterminate all conservative far right fascists, who are the true terrorist treats of humanity, not those peaceful benevolent fun loving Islamists of Gaza - they’re freedom fighters I tell you! Those pesky conservatives will not thwart their plans this time, the far right will be eliminated once and for all, the progressives will be sure of that!
Anyone read what Tulsi just released?
All the labour, green and social democratic governments across the West are licking their lips. All their dreams of eco dictatorship are about to come true!
Oh and etarip you still have such a short fuse
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank