The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Getting some of that sweet sweet government handouts
@burleigh , I have trouble following who exactly you’re fighting , is it the world ?
very perceptive Supa, he's SN's Brando
Yikes!! A 'proud Bundjalung man'??
Haha
.
I’m glad you have your sense of humour back SR you really need one on these threads.
burleigh wrote:Yikes. This says more than any fake Russian news you guys are sharing.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CsFw1fUOjnQ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Brought to you by resident SN conspiratard, burleyfearman
Agreed SF.
Sometimes you just have one of those days hey...
Cheers.
southernraw wrote:Yikes!! A 'proud Bundjalung man'??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n2ve0dcZPk&list=WL&index=4&t=3s
More Gold... ah burley, give up the insanity mate. We'll welcome you into the fold
Hiccups wrote:harrycoopr wrote:southernraw wrote:Supafreak wrote:WTF is going on ? This is on sky news……https://x.com/jasonclaremp/status/1704403663115133334?s=46&t=5RczxwAfzXe...
Yikes!
Fellas... it's just typical rightwing fare... their insanity knows no limits
I was sure I posted a twitter thread regarding the "Aussie Cossack" in here yesterday, but can't find it. Anyway, this is the foolish fool in question. Doesn't mind rubbing shoulders with literal Nazis. Top bloke, obviously. Head like a bulldog chewin' a wasp an' all. Furthermore, Rukshan Fernando. What a fucken joke.
That the same Aussie Cossack seen here sending messages to Neo Nazi Tom Sewell in encrypted messaging apps? https://t.co/a5W4hBVIPj
— Alternate Media Watchers (@AltMediaWatch) September 19, 2023
The Yes camp and left wing media must be getting very desperate when they start trying to connect Russia and Nazi's to things somehow.
I mean seriously nobody believes this shit anymore.
Next they will be claiming Jacinta Price is doing some white supremacy hand signal in some photo, secretly sending out signals to Nazis or something.
@indo you obviously missed some of the news yesterday, it was reported in more than one news outlet and there’s plenty of evidence. Nobody is saying it’s wazza or Jp no campaign it’s one of the many nut job no groups getting around.
I’m waiting for the claim that more FNP support JP than the yes campaign, now that would really be a storyline .
@ indo I’m surprised you haven’t shared JP nearly breaking down because of all the abuse she’s copping. Marcia Langton along with Burney have also been on the receiving end as everyone knows . Nobody deserves this type of treatment, its a dirty business politics and the dirtiest of them all is spud the dud .
Supafreak wrote:GuySmiley wrote:Ooops…. https://www.theage.com.au/national/anti-voice-rallies-organised-by-pro-p...
Oops indeed……https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/03/20/indigenous-sovereign-citizen-group-... ……https://www.smh.com.au/national/act/protesters-condemned-by-first-nation...
Here you go indo , shillingsworth jnr & snr are two of the speakers at the rally , its on this Saturday, maybe you can team up with rukshan for a squizz and report back what they say .
Rove wants in on this free money
Notice any similarities to the c grade celebs promoting the covid shot?
;)
https://m.
Noice. The song that got me into Kyuss. Or more so Homme’s licks.
Well… may as well double up ;)
- a tribute to the odd resident contributor on this thread
https://m.
Really?
Where on earth do these people live if it’s not under a rock?
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/anti-voice-campaign-director-...
Jelly Flater wrote:Go straya !
;);)
That was sensational! Uh! hahahah! Got my laugh in for the evening Cheers Jelly :)
Guy. I’ve a mate that keeps sending me this sorta stuff. Bad timing this referendum not long after Covid.
This guy could run like the wind.
Would light the crowd up at Footy Park when he got hold of the ball. Electric.
All time favourite.
agree, seeds. Not having social media myself, this forum has been an eye opener, bruised people out there that have obviously gone through some serious hurtin' in recent years.
Don’t do the socials either. It’s a shame people are reading way to much into this.
remember, seeds, when it was just a thing, that most Indigenous groups contributed to and wanted. Most people went yeh. Lefties went hell yeh! Conservatives waited for the solicitor general's ok.. seemed like it was going to be a modest and positive thing.
Grippy Little Toes should write a song about this brouhaha when it is all over.
Haha
King of Pop 1978 {Hall of Fame} + Best Actor 1975 / 1980 {Walk of Fame}
Squeak...From the Heart with Thunder from Down Under.
"The Voice is simply a mechanism & The Green Ant's plebs are merely tools!"
hmmmmmm...
There we go!
— The opinionated Black woman ~ Aunty (@Theblackfemini3) September 20, 2023
There it is!
Had to go make it about themselves as usual 😂
Soooooo predictable
Fck this shit
Vote NO https://t.co/tysczlTNtx
this dude gets around
bit surprised on his position
I stand corrected - there was an aboriginal person at the YES campaign March on the weekend…
— Melinda Richards 🇦🇺🇺🇸 (@goodfoodgal) September 19, 2023
https://t.co/hKARFEncGR
classy...
The tolerant left. What a right cunt. https://t.co/ZQJLG47MFi
— Dank Death Metal Dude (@ProfessorMMXXII) September 20, 2023
I bet she was one of the nutty crew wearing a mask to the bitter end not that all long ago
$525m Gay Pleb
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/14/marriage-equality...
$450m The Voice
$526m The Rainbow Serpent uprising.
$500m Dutto's Reffo
$500m Wazza's Treaty
$45m per Swiss Reffo...
Shove yer pencils...gonna need ROBO AEC + 20m Postal Apologies.
sypkan wrote:classy...
https://twitter.com/ProfessorMMXXII/status/1704436435422695427
That’s shit behavior even is she was getting baited and harassed, spitting from her a professor no less is fucked . It’s going to get uglier this weekend I’d say .
sypkan wrote:classy...
https://twitter.com/ProfessorMMXXII/status/1704436435422695427
That's disgusting. It's getting bad on the yes23 front now with gremlins like this.
This is getting out of hand. Hilltop hoods wanted some sweet free cash too. Stick to music fellas
Hot tip: if C grade celebs are promoting something sponsored by the government, it’s best to vote against it
Burleigh, is everyone who promotes Yes being paid?
How about those who promote No?
thermalben wrote:Burleigh, is everyone who promotes Yes being paid?
How about those who promote No?
I believe they are getting paid. Do you think these c grade celebs writing YES on their hand and copy and pasting the exact same copy are doing it for free?
;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUicGF1bCBrZWxseSB2aW5jZW50IGxpbmdpYXJpIGx5cmljcw%3D%3D thermalben wrote:Burleigh, is everyone who promotes Yes being paid?
How about those who promote No?
Im not agreeing with him that everyone is paid.
And i dont know if the yes campaign pay individuals but it should be noted the yes campaign do have a program where they provide groups/organisation up to $15K to promote the voice and the list of big business funding the yes campaign is very long some are providing up to 2 million each like BHP and ANZ.
While the No campaign has little support from big business, and a budget possibly ten times smaller (Yes campaign budget is said to be about 100 million)
You see Yes signs in front of people's houses because if you ask they will provide you them for free, you dont see any official No signs because the No campaign doesnt even have a budget for them.
Either way Its truely a battle of David and Goliath, if the Yes vote can turn around polls and win it will only be because of the huge difference in money the yes camp has.
For perspective the No case are said to have a budget of about 10 million, while the Yes case have spent 20 million on TV ads for next few weeks alone
sypkan wrote:classy...
https://twitter.com/ProfessorMMXXII/status/1704436435422695427
That is messed up.....hope she got arrested.
burleigh wrote:sypkan wrote:classy...
https://twitter.com/ProfessorMMXXII/status/1704436435422695427
That's disgusting. It's getting bad on the yes23 front now with gremlins like this.
The issue is becoming so emotive that it’s bringing out the worst in some people on both sides of the campaign. It’s very disappointing. However, I reckon there are far more unsavoury characters pushing the no vote: Pauline Hanson, Malcolm Roberts, Clive Palmer, Mark Latham, Tony Abbot, Peter Dutton, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, and the others of similar ilk. If I was sitting on the fence, I’d be swayed towards voting yes just to avoid being associated with them. If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
…wonder if sam newman ever gave a boo to eddie :
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/eddie-mcguire-steps-down-as-collingw...
- and, more recently :
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-16/phil-krakouer-racism-class-action...
overthefalls wrote:burleigh wrote:sypkan wrote:classy...
https://twitter.com/ProfessorMMXXII/status/1704436435422695427
That's disgusting. It's getting bad on the yes23 front now with gremlins like this.
The issue is becoming so emotive that it’s bringing out the worst in some people on both sides of the campaign. It’s very disappointing. However, I reckon there are far more unsavoury characters pushing the no vote: Pauline Hanson, Malcolm Roberts, Clive Palmer, Mark Latham, Tony Abbot, Peter Dutton, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, and the others of similar ilk. If I was sitting on the fence, I’d be swayed towards voting yes just to avoid being associated with them. If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
Allan Joyce, BHP, Pfizer. Enough said
overthefalls wrote:burleigh wrote:sypkan wrote:classy...
https://twitter.com/ProfessorMMXXII/status/1704436435422695427
That's disgusting. It's getting bad on the yes23 front now with gremlins like this.
The issue is becoming so emotive that it’s bringing out the worst in some people on both sides of the campaign. It’s very disappointing. However, I reckon there are far more unsavoury characters pushing the no vote: Pauline Hanson, Malcolm Roberts, Clive Palmer, Mark Latham, Tony Abbot, Peter Dutton, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, and the others of similar ilk. If I was sitting on the fence, I’d be swayed towards voting yes just to avoid being associated with them. If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
The thing is no matter what you think of those people its not their product to sell to the public.
Its the yes camp's product to sell to the public, so you need a degree of trust in those selling it.
Albo, Linda, Marcia, Noel, etc
I think more people would be put off by the name calling coming from them from day one until now.
Especially Marcia just the whole way she holds her self and attitude would put many neutral people off, and then of course her naming calling.
I think some would also be put off by Albos lies about USFTH length and voice doesn't equal treaty, if he is lying about these things then people will think what else is he lying about?
Sadly many will never hear the things others like Thomas Mayo and Teela Reid have said both involved at a high level with the voice, if there was the same budget for No campaign TV ads as the Yes camp and you presented what they have said the No vote would win easily.
Here's the very same legal eagles dual / duel on the rather vocal aqua aerobics dirty movie.
Pretty much the AEC / Police would rather both dirt bags sort it!
He said / She said ...walk away before provocation escalates into a public disturbance...A Voice ruckus!
General public filming is fine but ya can't focus yer cam on any single person without consent.
Especially after being warned...quit stalking their nostrils ya bloody weird arse bully drongo!
That's considered next level stalking or perving or ACA foot in door provocation.
That's offensive conduct, person has a right to defend themselves. Yes! Even by spitting, if necessary...
see : Folks warn then turn hoses onto ACA of destroy cam or spit in / on cam & no charges laid.
All ACA cam stalkers say...(Altogether)
"You just assaulted me...it's on cam, but my cams somehow got caught up yer arse, maybe if ya fart!"
https://lylawyers.com.au/8764-2/
Spitting is a common assault but can be used against an act of offensive conduct as in vile cam rape.
Pretty much yer ACA stock'n'trade incident...nauseating compulsive viewing with one eye closed.
Kinda like all see it coming...but then wished they never watched...too late...another Voice lowpoint!
Cops : "Move along...nothing to see here! (All say Aye!)
https://lylawyers.com.au/is-spitting-a-common-assault/
This is better
burleigh wrote:thermalben wrote:Burleigh, is everyone who promotes Yes being paid?
How about those who promote No?
I believe they are getting paid. Do you think these c grade celebs writing YES on their hand and copy and pasting the exact same copy are doing it for free?
I was about to say I doubt they are getting paid...
"...and copy and pasting the exact same copy are doing it for free?"
but that is a real obvious covid 101 tactic
dissapointing if they are getting paid, but at the same time, I guess they still agree with that position
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28