The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
"ok i apologise, it was troll of me"
Why write THAT word? You OK?
Mario Speedwagon wrote:"ok i apologise, it was troll of me"
Why write THAT word? You OK?
king billy, role model for fnp youth? cocaine, alchohol, baseball bats and racist to white ppl.
at least johnny farnhims lyrics are more moderate.
Mario Speedwagon wrote:#Lo-Info
"If this were an article in a mainstream news outlet, this is the paragraph where I would attempt to provide faux balance with a compelling, conflicting viewpoint. I shan’t be doing that because a staggering proportion of the No campaign’s arguments aren’t even arguments, they’re disingenuous hypotheticals dripping in privilege and fear. They aren’t even positions based on fear – they are fear itself and little more.
Take their slogan, ‘If you don’t know, vote No’. A celebration, a championing of lazy, willful ignorance. You could find out more, but why would you bother, here’s some franking credits. At its core, this six-word brain worm isn’t all that far removed from, ‘The boogeyman might be under the bed, I’m not gonna check but vote to leave the nightlight on’.
Consider also the various interchangeable bits of excrement that flood your mentions if you express support for The Voice online.
‘It makes our Constitution race based!’ or ‘this is like apartheid!’ scream a sea of verified Twitter Blue subscribers without profile pictures.
Sorry, but the amendment doesn’t do anything of the sort, it simply acknowledges the truth of what’s been going on here for 60,000 years, like other settler nations – the USA, Canada and New Zealand – have done before us. Also, the Constitution already mentions race (Part III, Section 25) in a deeply probo section about how it’s legal to exclude people from voting based on race. You should probably advocate to have that bit removed if you don’t want a ‘race based’ Constitution!
‘It will add a third chamber of Parliament and The Uluru Statement has secret clauses in 20-something hidden pages that will cede control of the land to Aboriginal people’.
It is a single page, here, and Peta Credlin thinks you’re a pliable, convenient cog who knows that when you say ‘do your own research’ you really mean ‘watch Sky News’. There are also more entertaining conspiracy theories out there for you to consider, like the Flat Earth movement, or the one about Justin Trudeau being Fidel Castro’s secret lovechild, so why not get on that train instead!?
‘There are no details on how The Voice will work!’
Yes there are.
‘But those details won’t be mentioned in the Constitution!’
We vote on broad principle all the fucking time! Literally in every single election. And the Constitution is a fairly broad-strokes document. It provides principles and core rules that are then expanded upon in legislation passed through Parliament. The Constitution doesn’t describe how the tax office or the military or the fucking postal service is structured either, but that isn’t a problem, and neither is this. Peter Dutton knows this, and you should too.
***
The difficulty with dissecting all these No arguments seriously is that there’s basically nothing there except fear of things that won’t happen. This is the result of the least interested people in the world being cynically prodded to ask for ‘more details’. The No campaign is so full of shit it needs an enema."
https://theshot.net.au/general-news/the-no-campaigns-argument-isnt-based...
In the sea of low info page after page of dribble that this thread is drowning under, this post stands out as a beacon of light.
Thanks MS!
Sadly, i think those that should read it the most will do the likely skim read and keep raising the same baseless arguments, not seeing the answers are staring them straight in the face.
We need a third box on the vote slip.
1.no
2:yes
3:I don’t play these games.
Michael Adam wrote:We need a third box on the vote slip.
1.no
2:yes
3:I don’t play these games.
So a tick, a cross and a circle then?? :-P
southernraw wrote:Michael Adam wrote:We need a third box on the vote slip.
1.no
2:yes
3:I don’t play these games.So a tick, a cross and a circle then?? :-P
No, a tick will work for the yes vote but a cross won't work for the no vote.
Not rigged in the favour of the yes campaign at all.
https://m.
&pp=ygUQYWJvcmlnaW5hbCBwaW5ndQ%3D%3D interesting franking credits gets a mention up there...
because I've been thinking, just like when labor took franking credits to the election
...if they actually had the inclination / respect / capacity to actually bother to explain it...
which they clearly didn't...
if would have been a winner with the electorate...
(it totally was... when finally explained too late in the piece...)
the undecided's...
(and the possibly swayed)
#QandA Highlights – “I want to see real change”: Vanessa Turnbull-Roberts explains her position on the Voice to Parliament referendum pic.twitter.com/3y6DSA6MNv
— ABC News (@abcnews) September 4, 2023
Wiradjuri elder “Riverbank Frank” Doolan is a friend of mine. He lives simply on the banks of the Macquarie River on the outskirts of Dubbo. He’s a NO vote and he wants me to report it. “Altering the constitution along racial lines, to me that’s repugnant,” he says. pic.twitter.com/8hRSWZNAcL
— Hugh Riminton (@hughriminton) September 3, 2023
burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Michael Adam wrote:We need a third box on the vote slip.
1.no
2:yes
3:I don’t play these games.So a tick, a cross and a circle then?? :-P
No, a tick will work for the yes vote but a cross won't work for the no vote.
Not rigged in the favour of the yes campaign at all.
Thats funny you say that Burleigh, because i can't for the life of me think of a time i've ever crossed a box and thought i was saying no by crossing it.
Elementary stuff unless you have swiss cheese for brains.
southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Michael Adam wrote:We need a third box on the vote slip.
1.no
2:yes
3:I don’t play these games.So a tick, a cross and a circle then?? :-P
No, a tick will work for the yes vote but a cross won't work for the no vote.
Not rigged in the favour of the yes campaign at all.
Thats funny you say that Burleigh, because i can't for the life of me think of a time i've ever crossed a box and thought i was saying no by crossing it.
Elementary stuff unless you have swiss cheese for brains.
Well that settles it. Just because you've never crossed a box, nobody does.
sepp
haha...
says mr. resistance, blm, intersectionality...
hilarious little man
men...
them?
they?
ACAB
burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Michael Adam wrote:We need a third box on the vote slip.
1.no
2:yes
3:I don’t play these games.So a tick, a cross and a circle then?? :-P
No, a tick will work for the yes vote but a cross won't work for the no vote.
Not rigged in the favour of the yes campaign at all.
Thats funny you say that Burleigh, because i can't for the life of me think of a time i've ever crossed a box and thought i was saying no by crossing it.
Elementary stuff unless you have swiss cheese for brains.Well that settles it. Just because you've never crossed a box, nobody does.
Bingo!!! Er, with a cross of course.
He knows he can join under different aliases but he's not interested.
Shouldn't that be in the 'Good News' thread?
Witty.
Yes! It's on and Poppin'
Yes! The Party's Rockin'
Yes! The Cuties Jockin'
Yes...and there ain't No Stoppin'!
(Warning! May contain xxx connotations...)
Mario Speedwagon wrote:"I don't share ID's political view, but he's generally open-minded and not hidebound by ideology..."
This quote (from this very thread a few weeks back) caused my laptop to fuck up...after spitting the contents of my cuppa all over it.
People should be wary what they post. It's there for posterity, and all just a quick search away.
A conservative who believes in AGW and also the shift to renewable energy?
More open-minded than your paint-by-numbers political posturing.
Keep searching, mate.
King of Pop had his 15 minutes of Fame!
King of Rock [No] [No] Never Vote [Yes]
AEC Scrutineer : 'I feel Elvis is motioning [Yes] + [Yes] and Not [No]'
That's 2 more [Yes] Votes from Rock'n'Roll Heaven...Lock 'em in!
.
Here ya go, boys
Here’s one for that open minded regular correspondent who is especially not bound by ideology….
https://m.
stunet wrote:Mario Speedwagon wrote:"I don't share ID's political view, but he's generally open-minded and not hidebound by ideology..."
This quote (from this very thread a few weeks back) caused my laptop to fuck up...after spitting the contents of my cuppa all over it.
People should be wary what they post. It's there for posterity, and all just a quick search away.
A conservative who believes in AGW and also the shift to renewable energy?
More open-minded than your paint-by-numbers political posturing.
Keep searching, mate.
I think we all have a back bone of beliefs and ideals that put us in an area labeled right or left, conservative, progressive but i think or expect most of us also hold views that might traditionally be seen as the opposite end of the spectrum.
For me i guess, its things like AGW, im not against renewables (current build is set up to get the most out of solar panels), i would love an EV, im not pro guns and very glad we dont have the gun culture and laws like USA, i think multiculturalism is a good thing, i dont think abortion should be illegal, I think a public health care system like we have is a good thing, im open to drug reform and legalisation although i think its complex with no easy answers, im not religious, to an extent i still hold fairly strong environmental views and believe in protection of the environment, probably more that might not be typical conservative takes on things (luckily we weren't so much like USA where covid and vax become a political issue as i didnt fall in line with the USA conservative take either)
100% most of the music i listen to is from artist who are left leaning (most artist are), and 100% i dont always agree with an artist personal views or politics or even the lyrics, ive never listened to music for those reasons anyway, only because i like the music and how it made me feel, so even with my changed political/social views since i was younger it not an issue, i even still love the oils. (up to blue sky)
I think it would be silly to not listen to or like a band because of the bands political views or lyrics
I mean its not like Im Johnny having to put up with Joey for 25 years.
This somewhat formerly decent thread has turned into an unreadable pile of shite.
Mario Speedwagon wrote:Voting NO to Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islanders is a big YES vote for Dutton and his gang.
Whose side are you really on?
indo-dreaming wrote:harrycoopr wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Michael Adam wrote:In the wake of the twentieth century experience it is staggering that this (or any other) government would wish to place race at the centre of its national constitution.
But as the early American politician John Adams (1735–1826) remarked: “The jaws of power are always opened to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing.”
Carry on useful idiots…100% would be such a backwards move, would set us back at least 50+ years.
Amazing that people cant see this (or choose not too see this)
It's not about race u idiots... there's only the human race... Unless yr a racist
If there is no such thing as different race's, then how can someone be racist?
This whole thing is about race(swap the word to ethnicity if you like) but the word race is actually already used in the constitution.
Geez Indo... for an educated person yr not that smart. Race is a social construction... there are only ethnicities and cultures... the reason why race is in the Constitution is because it was made in a racist era... ever heard of the White Australia Policy? Race was used to make a social hierarchy with whites/Europeans at the top and everyone else in a sliding scale of savagery, and of course Aboriginal people at the very bottom. That legitimised the invsion and land theft. Unfortunately Social Darwinism (racism) still continues in the minds of those who benefit from it. All makes sense huh hence why Yes is the go.
Mario Speedwagon wrote:"A conservative who believes in AGW and also the shift to renewable energy?"
Are you talking about Malcolm Turnbull?
I heard he's a big Fugazi fan and all.
Kinda like John Winston Howard's love of Joan Baez & Bob Dylan...
How the fuk is that possible? There is no way that snivelling little turd of a turd could like Bob... no way... that makes me... want ... to... PUKE
harrycoopr wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:harrycoopr wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Michael Adam wrote:In the wake of the twentieth century experience it is staggering that this (or any other) government would wish to place race at the centre of its national constitution.
But as the early American politician John Adams (1735–1826) remarked: “The jaws of power are always opened to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing.”
Carry on useful idiots…100% would be such a backwards move, would set us back at least 50+ years.
Amazing that people cant see this (or choose not too see this)
It's not about race u idiots... there's only the human race... Unless yr a racist
If there is no such thing as different race's, then how can someone be racist?
This whole thing is about race(swap the word to ethnicity if you like) but the word race is actually already used in the constitution.
Geez Indo... for an educated person yr not that smart. Race is a social construction... there are only ethnicities and cultures... the reason why race is in the Constitution is because it was made in a racist era... ever heard of the White Australia Policy? Race was used to make a social hierarchy with whites/Europeans at the top and everyone else in a sliding scale of savagery, and of course Aboriginal people at the very bottom. That legitimised the invsion and land theft. Unfortunately Social Darwinism (racism) still continues in the minds of those who benefit from it. All makes sense huh hence why Yes is the go.
Dude your just arguing semantics, most people use the word race, just as they do gender even though both are social constructs.
Like i said if you want to use ethic group instead of race im 100% cool with that, either way diving people by groups based on ancestry to provide them different rights and say is a racist concept, and its one you openly support.
not sure an 'ethic group' would go near this thread Indo ; )
throw a "N" in there
Do you mind repeating that please, bud1?
I never tire of the Dandy markets excerpt Bud1, for it holds a bit more significance for me.
As a tiny grom, i used to head down there with my gran and grand dad, both of ethnic backgrounds. Gran used to wear a scarf on her head, didn't look Aussie at all.
I can just imagine some sleazy Aussie bogan bumping up against my gran for a reaction and how my granddad would have reacted....you know, having come from a war torn country. He had no time for racists. I guess that's where i get it from.
The low info, champion of the cnuts, not only speaks volumous amounts of shit but is a turd through and through.
Good to see you back Bud1. Love your work.
Spot on Bud1!
It's an unexplored perspective that can never be revealed with the historical blinders on.
Cheers mate.
indo-dreaming wrote:harrycoopr wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:harrycoopr wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Michael Adam wrote:In the wake of the twentieth century experience it is staggering that this (or any other) government would wish to place race at the centre of its national constitution.
But as the early American politician John Adams (1735–1826) remarked: “The jaws of power are always opened to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing.”
Carry on useful idiots…100% would be such a backwards move, would set us back at least 50+ years.
Amazing that people cant see this (or choose not too see this)
It's not about race u idiots... there's only the human race... Unless yr a racist
If there is no such thing as different race's, then how can someone be racist?
This whole thing is about race(swap the word to ethnicity if you like) but the word race is actually already used in the constitution.
Geez Indo... for an educated person yr not that smart. Race is a social construction... there are only ethnicities and cultures... the reason why race is in the Constitution is because it was made in a racist era... ever heard of the White Australia Policy? Race was used to make a social hierarchy with whites/Europeans at the top and everyone else in a sliding scale of savagery, and of course Aboriginal people at the very bottom. That legitimised the invsion and land theft. Unfortunately Social Darwinism (racism) still continues in the minds of those who benefit from it. All makes sense huh hence why Yes is the go.
Dude your just arguing semantics, most people use the word race, just as they do gender even though both are social constructs.
Like i said if you want to use ethic group instead of race im 100% cool with that, either way diving people by groups based on ancestry to provide them different rights and say is a racist concept, and its one you openly support.
My god... it's really useless debating or even trying to enlighten you Indo... some people are just closed no matter how wide open the door is. Race is a fantasy...but the effects of racism are obviously and seriously not. That much is obvious.
The Voice has nothing to do with dividing people or privileging people based on their ethnicity/culture(s)... or ancestry. It's got nothing to do with dividing. It's about making up for a historical wrong which has continued through to this very day. It's about allowing the people who have been here for 60k+ years to at least be heard in this country's "founding" document (just over 200 years old!!). It's about rectifying injustice, disempowerment and disadvantage... Sure, these things have been increasingly addressed over the last 50 years but this Voice is the logical conclusion of the struggle for recognition and reparations.
William Cooper tried in the 1930s... too early... almost 100 years later It's probably about time!!
Anyway I'm over it... some ppl refuse to budge from their ideological straitjackets.
Do yrself a favour Indo and burleigh... read some Henry Reynolds. You got about 5 weeks to educate yrselfs and stop fretting about the inclusion of a necessity. Anyway even if it fails Aboriginal people won't stop their demands for sovereign justice.
Aways was, always will be Aboriginal land... until true reconciliation occurs through our understanding and their generosity.
JF must be in bed. I'll get it
Bud1 says for Southernraw and I like this paragraph :
"no matter what happens, and as insignificant as it seems, the fact that you are throwing and offering your full support to FNP’s will be enough to help some. Not all though, but it will be enough to give some FNP’s a glimpse and taste of the humanity that they crave."
Bud1, thank you! For sharing your experiences, and for reporting on the ‘onslaught of FNP’s genuine pain’. This is incredibly moving and shocking. As I read, your words melted into one and etched into my consciousness of that reality the FNP’s endured. You only need to read it once Goofy to get it and it’s a hard one to repeat, but thank you for voicing it Bud1!
Hopefully the key (is it 3? Nah there’s more) people (the detractors) read your post Bud1 above in full, and are the same people who have been the ones so quick to condemn the Aboriginal community for their Gov’t handouts and the money Govt’s spend on them, all of this bad talking, bad mouthing of them is disgraceful, is divisive and not helpful or progressive. But hopefully they are quickly getting the picture why things are as they are, can get an understanding, take a step back, show empathy, some compassion, look at FNP’s situation now and realise it is because of the oppression that has been inflicted upon them. Give them a voice you guys and girls and give them a real chance to shine, because they will, they are so talented, have ultra intelligence, it truly will make you lot actually proud, you’ll see what these people have to offer us. It’s their chance in this referendum (there is only one chance) to get a voice and clean up the wrongs that have been and still are being inflicted upon them. It’s in our hands, mine and yours, no more oppression, be kind and vote yes, it matters! Vote yes and it is a kind vote for you on an individual basis, it’s good for you to vote yes, we are one, we need to look after the ones that are weakened, the ones outside of the circle, we are all on the same island, but separated, invite them in and set them free and see how they will quickly gain strength for they will become independent, they want it and you won’t be disappointed. Say no to the oppression, Yes to the voice, Thanks.
Cheers SR and Andy-Mac
AlfredWallace wrote:Bud1 wrote:So you are still smarmily clinging to that I wasn’t threatened, my wife, and in fact her whole family wasn’t insulted, and many times before, even though plenty of people, including zen’s little chirp, tried to point it out to you.
Twin fins? You got a website, you da man! I had my first taste of deleted posts when I pointed out that you sell surfing down the shute.
Anyway don’t send any more emails, I’m out of here, smarm away in peace.
Thanks guy, and thanks for standing up for my wife back then, so it comes as no surprise that nuttle supports i-d openly threatening you, as I and others have pointed out. I hope we meet one-day, if not have a good one!
Bud1.
Cough up for a subscription or piss off.
You played me you prick. Can’t believe it, I fell for it hook, line and sinker.
I really do need to adjust my dickheads filter ( inc. myself)I know nothing about you or your background, I’m a new subscriber, inside the last decade, I think.
Your previous experiences with two aforementioned individuals obviously goes way back. I don’t want to know or revisit that/your shit.
Matter of fact, nobody wants to know about that shit/baggage you carry.I genuinely engaged with you late one afternoon when you responded to a plant discussion in Botany Nerds Ahoy, at that time, being a relatively new thread, many, including me were having a lot of fun. Good positive vibe.
This was soon to change, all thanks to you. It was only ever going to be about you, correct ?
You set me up, knowing all too well, your agenda was something much more than Quandongs. You prick.
Firstly, you deliberately (ego got the better of you) posted an old newspaper clipping of three men, discussing and looking at a bag of Quandongs, you wanted us to see your name Michael Bourne, didn’t you.
You mentioned Quandongs ( Santalum acuminatum ), you had a few questions, so did I. I thought this will be good a topic not discussed often, hemiparasitic plants, you sounded like you know plants and have had experiences you could possibly share with us.
On reflection you hardly shared any info compared to what you have been sharing here over the past few days, it isn’t plant life talk I can tell you.
So, you leave the paper clipping there on the thread and I respond that evening to the heading on the clip. ‘Is it viable to grow Quandongs commercially’
I write a few words. No response, fine, that came the next morning with a ‘cock and bull’ excuse on not knowing how to upload . Well from I’ve seen of late, you certainly do know your way around a keyboard.It’s all about you, you show photos of your home’s interior, lecturing us about weights program, healthy lifestyle fellas, your gym, chin-bar etc. your so called dream life in/on some paradisiacal island or piece of the Phillipines, yep, I’m pretty sure that’s where you are hiding.
Also, spare us the comedy, you primarily said you’d never want to disclose where you lived, in reality you wanted us to know, for fuck sake, how dumb do you think we are, you either stupidly or deliberately posted a photo of a beautiful nocturnal Tarsier which for all of us dropped a Google Earth missile on the Phillipines .
You showed and discussed your surfboards in the rack, by the look of it you are obviously in the firing line for northern hemisphere winter swells and you stated you had a 7’6” board, are we meant to be impressed, like you are some big charger or something.
Whilst a lot of debate and discussion happens on SWN daily, most paid up subscribers (not yourself) and non-subscribers, are great to engage with, topics are many and varied and really enjoyable to discuss pros and cons.
We cross the line sometimes, I know I have, but the best part of a group forum is someone will always be there to say ‘pull your head in Alfred,’ like Zen did to me this morning (thank you Zen). I hope I’m better for it.
Stu is part of the ‘firm’ I respect his voice on matters, even though I have to hold my tongue and not reply sometimes. We are NOT all the same but we can definitely all get along together on what really is a great forum.
For you Michael, I’d rather you not make contact with me at all. I’m still seething at you for playing me. It doesn’t change my view on the referendum for a Voice, but you are very good at souring the waters.
Lastly, two weeks ago, I received a beautiful custom made board I had been waiting 6 months for, a Simon Jones, MOTE 6’2” ‘Fiji’ channel bottom, round tail model, what craftsmanship and guess what, it’s a TWIN FIN
How’s that grab ya. AW
Didn't take AlfredWallace long to figure you out Uplift.
Geez, I thought something was amiss, but ignored it, sorry AW,
stunet wrote:Yeah, he posted some great stuff but, as with his many other returns, he's characteristically immoderate and I've seen it too many times to tolerate it anymore. It's OK for you to "look past that" having never been on the end of it.
Consider, I've never directed a comment to him but for eleven years I've been bombarded by him as he follows me around the forum and social media. I don't care...shit, I get paid for it, but I can see how it drives other people away.
Keep in mind, he's never been a subscriber either. Not sure why he gets off scot-free while ID cops the arrows.
Reckon there's wisdom in calling out people from your own side; not having others put up with his trolling and vitriol. Anything else is dumb tribalism.
BTW. I highly doubt Facto (Mario Speedwagon) is as subscriber either the way he swaps user names..
Indigenous Literacy Day today.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/video/students-gather-to-celebrate-first-nat...
And if you're in a position to help
https://www.indigenousliteracyfoundation.org.au/what-is-indigenous-literacy
The site of the Dandy Markets is very close to the Dandenong Mosque. The mosque shares a boundary fence line with the linear Dandenong Creek reserve. The mosque has a high white painted concrete wall separating its grounds from the reserve. The 30+ kms bike trail from the bay at Carrum to the foot of the Dandenongs goes past the mosque and its white concrete wall …. while I haven’t ridden that way in years that wall was frequently covered in foul racist graffiti directed at the mosque and it’s worshippers …. bump here a tag there.
geez the desperation is getting palpable
Just stating it how it was sypkan. No desperation here, personally I think the NO campaign will win out but for reasons we are never going to agree on. The country and all its citizens once again will miss an opportunity. Lucky Country?
GuySmiley wrote:The site of the Dandy Markets is very close to the Dandenong Mosque. The mosque shares a boundary fence line with the linear Dandenong Creek reserve. The mosque has a high white painted concrete wall separating its grounds from the reserve. The 30+ kms bike trail from the bay at Carrum to the foot of the Dandenongs goes past the mosque and its white concrete wall …. while I haven’t ridden that way in years that wall was frequently covered in foul racist graffiti directed at the mosque and it’s worshippers …. bump here a tag there.
These types of post are so funny, maybe im reading it wrong but its almost like your insinuating that im the type of person that would write that type of graffiti?
I mean seriously your the one that comments in that religion thread all the time dissing people and their religion, as long as people dont try to preach to me or force their belefs on me, i couldn't care less
Its funny because im betting ive had so much more interaction with muslims than anyone else here, i mean roughly 80% of people at my wedding were muslim.
And I even celebrate Ramadan/ Eid al-Fitr every year with Indonesian friends(even had it at our house) as we also all get together at Christmas, even though most are muslim.
To them its not big deal, its pretty funny actually some of the beliefs my Indo muslim friends have, some wont eat pork, but will still eat bacon :D
Go figure, i guess it goes to show how good bacon really is.
but seriously guy, trying to 'deplatform' a guy for a loose post he wrote over 6 years ago!
you're too old for that shit
your two nutty amigos are also looking rather desperate
as is mike carlton and a heap of other crew I follow on twitter...
truly deranged!
goofyfoot was right last week when he said indod was appearing unhinged and desperate, now you guys have taken it to a new level...
something your 2 amigos should be aware of / remind themselves about...
there's virtually no one that comes here just to... 'trigger liberals'... most people refrain from posting stuff because they don't want the conversation to descend to darkness - even stuff that is factually correct and captures what many many people are actually thinking...
but your two little amigos think it is all about them... and are so caught up in their own little ideological extremeness, they cannot even consider how 'normies' are thinking... and that the discussion and 'debate' needs to address a coupla elephants before we can move onto what matters...
it's very telling which very moderate and intelligent commentators on here will not even engage in this thread, purely due to the hysterics, bullying -and, ironically off the charts... 'toxic masculinity'...
I think it's all rather funny, the whole kit and kaboodle, in a truly funny manner... and my heartrate and offence-ometer has never ever ever gotten beyond a flatline that indicates I'm barely just breathing - despite their best efforts...
but seriously, the question you guys should be asking is...
who am I actually convincing?
and, what am I actually achieving?
fuck all to the outright negative I would say...
but carry on....
I enjoy the outright shit giving that has developed on the internet, I think it is very australian
No inference intended @info, just stating what I saw and reflecting on how hard it would have been to deal with that racism just for being different. Had you made good with your thoughts I’m thinking perhaps that woman had dealt with much worse on a daily basis.
@sypkan not doing such a thing, now go away
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28